No Birthday Wishes - Should I Be Concerned?

Razorjack

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The reason for meeting kids is such a terrible idea is cause it will actually delay or even kill the whole attraction/bedding etc....

No, it just requires another set of skills that isn't advocated on these forums. When done right most women will still find you attractive whether the kid is with them or not. Yes, it can ruin logistics but NOT attraction. When women are attracted they will arrange a time for bedding.

]Most girls are not really looking for a father to their kids, most kids have their father,)....

Most women want a relationship with a man who could get along with their kids NOT be a father.

and most women (specially the well adjusted ones, would never in a million years introduce the kids to a new guy)....

And yet women get remarried, have boyfriends meet their kids etc. They will introduce their kids to who they feel is the RIGHT guy.

The reason why forums are TERRIBLE to turn fwb relationship to something more is cause, most of us to do NOT WANT, something more....

And yet this is EXACTLY what the OP said he wanted from the girl:

You said: what do YOU want with/from her?

What I want from her is a relationship, she has huge goals to build a business like I am.

But if we wanted something more the best way is still to this day having multiple women competing, it never changes that is the best strategy....

Best strategy for a PARTICULAR SUBSET of women

Every long term relationship i ever got, it came from women competing against each other.... Everytime without fail that my strategy changed to focus on 1 women it totally did not work, and i did not lay the girls....

Same as to @ieatapples, please define "long term"

No offense @Skills, but you say so yourself that you "do NOT WANT, something more" so I'm assuming that your definition of "long term" is much shorter than mine. And since you aren't interested in "something more", you've never developed skills from this side.

Teevester has a million posts explaining the way is better to come accross as a lover no matter the circumstances and he is right (though he is not good at ltr, i am and i can tell you i totally agree with him)......

While I think @Teevster is a fantastic guy, he has zero interest in relationships and also never developed these skills, so is hardly an authority on this aspect

When you sell "let me meet your kid" you just advertise in the super ball "i am a provider, not a lover, but a guy looking for an ltr" this in turn, makes women look harder and over analyse your QUALIFICATIONS, and start looking and nitpiking for any flows, when you come across as a lover it never happens..... Then when you combine that with "courtship" activities it totally will dry her vagina.....

Please don't twist what I wrote to mean something that I didn't say.

It's not as black & white as you think it is, where you are either a provider or lover. How do you know it can't be both in differing amounts?

I KNOW this from several natural friends who radiate both provider and lover, they also hook girls immediately for sex on the first night/date and the girls want them for long term relationships

There could be a million reasons why the girl is "pulling away" and the op not having a "kid/son" strategy has little to nothing to do with this.... While the atmostphere and lack of momentum in part due to a crazy never seen unpredictable stressful crisis may be or it could even be that the op has lost the window of opportunity that he has.... But i am more on the bet that is that the target just realized that he wants something "serious" and the op got "needy" and she ran to not send mix messages, women are horrible at rejecting they just give hints.

And yet she keeps replying back and also hinted at going on another date after the current crisis.
 

Razorjack

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oh i see what you are saying, i wrote my last post without reading this one, you are advising the op as normal provider type game.... ok, i still think is a bit harder, but i get your point...

No it isn't "normal provider type game", whatever that means. Nowhere did I write that he needs to fork out money and provide for her kid without getting anything back.

You know you can actually see women together with their kids and not only have them NOT see you as a provider chump, but actually be more attracted and horny to be alone with you.
 

Skills

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No, it just requires another set of skills that isn't advocated on these forums. When done right most women will still find you attractive whether the kid is with them or not. Yes, it can ruin logistics but NOT attraction. When women are attracted they will arrange a time for bedding.



Most women want a relationship with a man who could get along with their kids NOT be a father.



And yet women get remarried, have boyfriends meet their kids etc. They will introduce their kids to who they feel is the RIGHT guy.



And yet this is EXACTLY what the OP said he wanted from the girl:





Best strategy for a PARTICULAR SUBSET of women



Same as to @ieatapples, please define "long term"

No offense @Skills, but you say so yourself that you "do NOT WANT, something more" so I'm assuming that your definition of "long term" is much shorter than mine. And since you aren't interested in "something more", you've never developed skills from this side.

I totally have and on my terms....


While I think @Teevster is a fantastic guy, he has zero interest in relationships and also never developed these skills, so is hardly an authority on this aspect

Totally agree, but his view of coming across as a lover > than coming across as provider... Still stands even to have ltr, this does not change, there was a better poster call pure evil, who was very good at ltrs and serial monogamy...



Please don't twist what I wrote to mean something that I didn't say.

I would never do such thing, so don't ever worry about that...I hate when people do that to me in forums... We are cool, Razor, you need to also remember that you have been out of the game for while, i am currently banging constantly Milfs since a lot of them fall in my target demographic....

It's not as black & white as you think it is, where you are either a provider or lover. How do you know it can't be both in differing amounts?

I KNOW this from several natural friends who radiate both provider and lover, they also hook girls immediately for sex on the first night/date and the girls want them for long term relationships

Yes, and i can do this.... But that does not negate the strategy of meeting kids, is just such a horrible strategy, i can play provider game/pure evil has a strategy like this, but the underlying communication is you walk like duck you act like a duck you are a duck, so your sexual vibe/charisma etc... will project you are lover trying to pick her to settle, and she will feel that, but the op doing this will come across as a needy chump... (just read his last entry it exactly what i was predicting)



And yet she keeps replying back and also hinted at going on another date after the current crisis.


We disagree in strategies that is all..... i explain the dynamics here and i place "meeting a kid" courtship, here is by skills:

"Women will put a dude into 4 categories( i change my view to 4 instead of 3)
a nothing(not a friend, not an acquaintance, not a person she wants nothing to do with, she just gave him the number for whatever reason)
a friend or emotional tampon( dead zone)
a lover or dude she wants to fuck(best zone to be in even if you want to her to be your gf always fuck them first then walk backwards to a relationship)
a boyfriend/or potential bf ( this may delay sex, or totally kill your chances and put you into friend zone when it comes to dating)

So what is the problem with the traditional dinner, movie, miniature golf, and all that crap that you see on live dating shows like “millionaire match maker”, The problem i see with the traditional dating is that it has a high % to one of these 2 outcomes specially for newer/intermediate guys, you will be put into the possible bf application stack, so you will get screen harder, and your flaws will be looked at or maximize… Now let say you are amazing and you get through her screening, then sex may be delay(since now you will be seen as a bf instead of lover, so she may want you to see her as girlfriend material that she is not that easy, the women 3 date rule crap), plus it is a bad frame you are paying for dates so you are seen as a provider. Anyways the % of success doing the traditional dating in my opinion lower than if you do what i suggest which i will call the lover dates:

1.- Any excuse to be at your house or her house(renting a movie, dinner at your house, video games,massage etc…)
2.- walk by the beach(night preferably)
3.- Park date (secluded night time)
4.- dancing at a club(easy to escalate)
5.- drinks at a bar( alcohol may be your friend to make her relax)
6.- swingclub, sex shop, sex expo, strip club.(advance level)

The goal of 2 to 6 is to go back home or to a motel and have sex with the exception of the swingclub(cause you fuck them in the swinclub).

Stage 4: How would i ask her out if you fail in the sub communication of presenting yourself as a lover or for a sexual encounter, first you need to get a sense of her lifestyle (when she works, when she goes to school, friends etc…)..

Second you need to LEAD and make it something she will want to do by building, excitement
curiosity and delivery…Unfortunately it sadens me that most puas have really vanilla personalities or no personality.

Holly shit! Saturday night is going to be so much fun (or whatever day you may think she may available, if she is not available it does not matter) you can not miss it, it will be so awesome i can’t wait… Hb: what what is it? don’t worry you are gonna have a blast do me a favor and met me at (starbucks, gas station, it does not matter) at 5 pm wear something cute and comfortable… Hb: but what is it? me: is a surprise you will have so much fun. i will call you around 4 pm to confirm if at 4 i do not hear from you i am going alone or i am taking somebody else. If she can not go when you are setting up the date, for example i can’t that day cause i need to go to work, then it is good, cause you can find out when is she is available.. You go really! that sucks cause you would have loved it, when are you usually free(indirect asking when is she free), i am free on Thursday and on Sundays…. So now you have info… Do not set it up right then, keep texting and talking normal, and wait till it get close to those days and act again indirectly following similar or same format.
 

Troy

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@Razorjack and @Skills

I conversation is going good so far, so I truly appreciate the feedback. Today my company called me in, I am actually on a 2 day vacation. My birthday and today. The company sent everyone home along with our computer so I will be on lockdown coming tomorrow.

I have taken both of your points into consideration and from what I know for a fact and based on what you also discussed, fact is I don't have enough skills currently to bed Patrice. She is currently on quarantine as well. So I think the best thing to do is for me to just:

1. Wait and see if she calls me later on today or tomorrow to talk just like I asked her to. If she does not call it therefore means she has denied complying with my request and is not interested to talk at this moment.

2. She did agree to go out with me for a 2nd date on 3 occasions but life got in the way

3. Since she is not contacting me first to just "talk" I think it's best if I use the quaratine time to reflect on every piece of advice you guys gave and use this as the best opportunity to improve my game until Coronavirus ends, I will see where I stand with her. So if she does not call me today, I will just open her Whatsapp message and let her know I read her message and then I won't respond. I will just cut contact and focus on my self improvement and getting a bigger income.

What do you guys think of this approach?

I think either need to bed her in the next couple of days or cut contact ASAP
 

Skills

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@Razorjack and @Skills

I conversation is going good so far, so I truly appreciate the feedback. Today my company called me in, I am actually on a 2 day vacation. My birthday and today. The company sent everyone home along with our computer so I will be on lockdown coming tomorrow.

I have taken both of your points into consideration and from what I know for a fact and based on what you also discussed, fact is I don't have enough skills currently to bed Patrice. She is currently on quarantine as well. So I think the best thing to do is for me to just:

1. Wait and see if she calls me later on today or tomorrow to talk just like I asked her to. If she does not call it therefore means she has denied complying with my request and is not interested to talk at this moment.

2. She did agree to go out with me for a 2nd date on 3 occasions but life got in the way

3. Since she is not contacting me first to just "talk" I think it's best if I use the quaratine time to reflect on every piece of advice you guys gave and use this as the best opportunity to improve my game until Coronavirus ends, I will see where I stand with her. So if she does not call me today, I will just open her Whatsapp message and let her know I read her message and then I won't respond. I will just cut contact and focus on my self improvement and getting a bigger income.

What do you guys think of this approach?

I think either need to bed her in the next couple of days or cut contact ASAP


I like it please read my last post before you posted this...
 

Troy

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I like it please read my last post before you posted this...

yes I read your points, I like them. I will frame myself as a lover first and foremost and get her on a secluded date where I can escalate to sex
 

Skills

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You know you can actually see women together with their kids and not only have them NOT see you as a provider chump, but actually be more attracted and horny to be alone with you.

Oh yeah! even guys with toddlers of their own walking around the park in some cases have the picking up with girls dog effect, and yes i agree with you on this, when women see how i interact with their kids specially when i do silly dances with their kids (suck is the flow from back pack kid) or do flips in the air from gymnastic/capoeira they go crazy.... But this is not the context i am talking about...
 

Razorjack

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I totally have and on my terms....




Totally agree, but his view of coming across as a lover > than coming across as provider... Still stands even to have ltr, this does not change, there was a better poster call pure evil, who was very good at ltrs and serial monogamy...





I would never do such thing, so don't ever worry about that...I hate when people do that to me in forums... We are cool, Razor, you need to also remember that you have been out of the game for while, i am currently banging constantly Milfs since a lot of them fall in my target demographic....



Yes, and i can do this.... But that does not negate the strategy of meeting kids, is just such a horrible strategy, i can play provider game/pure evil has a strategy like this, but the underlying communication is you walk like duck you act like a duck you are a duck, so your sexual vibe/charisma etc... will project you are lover trying to pick her to settle, and she will feel that, but the op doing this will come across as a needy chump... (just read his last entry it exactly what i was predicting)






We disagree in strategies that is all..... i explain the dynamics here and i place "meeting a kid" courtship, here is by skills:

"Women will put a dude into 4 categories( i change my view to 4 instead of 3)
a nothing(not a friend, not an acquaintance, not a person she wants nothing to do with, she just gave him the number for whatever reason)
a friend or emotional tampon( dead zone)
a lover or dude she wants to fuck(best zone to be in even if you want to her to be your gf always fuck them first then walk backwards to a relationship)
a boyfriend/or potential bf ( this may delay sex, or totally kill your chances and put you into friend zone when it comes to dating)

So what is the problem with the traditional dinner, movie, miniature golf, and all that crap that you see on live dating shows like “millionaire match maker”, The problem i see with the traditional dating is that it has a high % to one of these 2 outcomes specially for newer/intermediate guys, you will be put into the possible bf application stack, so you will get screen harder, and your flaws will be looked at or maximize… Now let say you are amazing and you get through her screening, then sex may be delay(since now you will be seen as a bf instead of lover, so she may want you to see her as girlfriend material that she is not that easy, the women 3 date rule crap), plus it is a bad frame you are paying for dates so you are seen as a provider. Anyways the % of success doing the traditional dating in my opinion lower than if you do what i suggest which i will call the lover dates:

1.- Any excuse to be at your house or her house(renting a movie, dinner at your house, video games,massage etc…)
2.- walk by the beach(night preferably)
3.- Park date (secluded night time)
4.- dancing at a club(easy to escalate)
5.- drinks at a bar( alcohol may be your friend to make her relax)
6.- swingclub, sex shop, sex expo, strip club.(advance level)

The goal of 2 to 6 is to go back home or to a motel and have sex with the exception of the swingclub(cause you fuck them in the swinclub).

Stage 4: How would i ask her out if you fail in the sub communication of presenting yourself as a lover or for a sexual encounter, first you need to get a sense of her lifestyle (when she works, when she goes to school, friends etc…)..

Second you need to LEAD and make it something she will want to do by building, excitement
curiosity and delivery…Unfortunately it sadens me that most puas have really vanilla personalities or no personality.

Holly shit! Saturday night is going to be so much fun (or whatever day you may think she may available, if she is not available it does not matter) you can not miss it, it will be so awesome i can’t wait… Hb: what what is it? don’t worry you are gonna have a blast do me a favor and met me at (starbucks, gas station, it does not matter) at 5 pm wear something cute and comfortable… Hb: but what is it? me: is a surprise you will have so much fun. i will call you around 4 pm to confirm if at 4 i do not hear from you i am going alone or i am taking somebody else. If she can not go when you are setting up the date, for example i can’t that day cause i need to go to work, then it is good, cause you can find out when is she is available.. You go really! that sucks cause you would have loved it, when are you usually free(indirect asking when is she free), i am free on Thursday and on Sundays…. So now you have info… Do not set it up right then, keep texting and talking normal, and wait till it get close to those days and act again indirectly following similar or same format.

@Skills, I agree with pretty much everything you are saying.

Just a couple things I can add, there is a 5th category although it is very rare type of guy: The trophy boyfriend/husband

I created a post about it here as to not derail this thread:

And yes, I have been out of the game for quite some time but I'm not as rusty as some may believe. Just ask Teevster when we went out together the first time, I went out for the first time in 9 years, I was 48 and hooked several hot girls half my age! ;)

I also went out a couple of months ago and hooked several MILFs myself ;)

Not trying to brag, but I don't get rusty because this has been ingrained in me, it's not something I do but who I am. So when I go out I don't need to "get into state" or "re-learn game", I just need to "be myself".
 

Razorjack

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Oh yeah! even guys with toddlers of their own walking around the park in some cases have the picking up with girls dog effect, and yes i agree with you on this, when women see how i interact with their kids specially when i do silly dances with their kids (suck is the flow from back pack kid) or do flips in the air from gymnastic/capoeira they go crazy.... But this is not the context i am talking about...

Yes and if you adjust it to be slightly more sexual in a discreet way, than it is pretty much what I was trying to (clumsily) describe, LOL!
 

Troy

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Messages
730
Hey final update I have, I have decided to NEXT Patrice, cut contact with her cold.

I dont think she is worth chasing again until anytime after the Coronavirus when I can ask her out and she actually committing to a date with me or flaking. That's how I see it now.

To recap, the last text conversation we had this morning was:

Troy: hey call me when u get off work today, how's Trey managing the Covid, is he jumping off the walls? (Trey is her 2 year old son)

Patrice: Lol yea fine, from the whole thing started I haven't brought him out, rather be safe than sorry

From that text, I get that she would have called me. But from this morning I already predicted she was not going to call. This is not the first time she said "I will call or text you" and then never followed up on that promise. I just opened her Whatsapp so she saw I read the message and I am just going to not reply at all.

I totally understand that life happens, she might have gotten busy with something super important, however it's a trend, she rarely follows on promises made. I know for a fact, if I am going to get her to call me back, I would have to ring her phone first and then hang up and that is the only way she might send me a text or call back.

I will just focus this time on improving my skills and becoming a lover while in quarantine and maybe, just maybe I will talk to her again when Coronavirus ends. Until then I predict a 99% rate she will not call or text me once.

It's sad but a fact, I still like her :(

Troy
 

Skills

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Hey final update I have, I have decided to NEXT Patrice, cut contact with her cold.

I dont think she is worth chasing again until anytime after the Coronavirus when I can ask her out and she actually committing to a date with me or flaking. That's how I see it now.

To recap, the last text conversation we had this morning was:

Troy: hey call me when u get off work today, how's Trey managing the Covid, is he jumping off the walls? (Trey is her 2 year old son)

Patrice: Lol yea fine, from the whole thing started I haven't brought him out, rather be safe than sorry

From that text, I get that she would have called me. But from this morning I already predicted she was not going to call. This is not the first time she said "I will call or text you" and then never followed up on that promise. I just opened her Whatsapp so she saw I read the message and I am just going to not reply at all.

I totally understand that life happens, she might have gotten busy with something super important, however it's a trend, she rarely follows on promises made. I know for a fact, if I am going to get her to call me back, I would have to ring her phone first and then hang up and that is the only way she might send me a text or call back.

I will just focus this time on improving my skills and becoming a lover while in quarantine and maybe, just maybe I will talk to her again when Coronavirus ends. Until then I predict a 99% rate she will not call or text me once.

It's sad but a fact, I still like her :(

Troy

Troy i think, and i am speculating, it was valentines she was alone, you were a cute guy, she was feeling you at the time, and most girls do not want to spend valentines alone.... She was into you at that moment, all exited, and then the momentum was lost (happens to everybody in this case corona may have played a role to), the taking so long to text back, the never initiating etc.... also is concerning (she may not be that much into you, and/or may have another dude)......
 

Razorjack

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Troy i think, and i am speculating, it was valentines she was alone, you were a cute guy, she was feeling you at the time, and most girls do not want to spend valentines alone.... She was into you at that moment, all exited, and then the momentum was lost (happens to everybody in this case corona may have played a role to), the taking so long to text back, the never initiating etc.... also is concerning (she may not be that much into you, and/or may have another dude)......

Hey final update I have, I have decided to NEXT Patrice, cut contact with her cold.

I dont think she is worth chasing again until anytime after the Coronavirus when I can ask her out and she actually committing to a date with me or flaking. That's how I see it now.

To recap, the last text conversation we had this morning was:

Troy: hey call me when u get off work today, how's Trey managing the Covid, is he jumping off the walls? (Trey is her 2 year old son)

Patrice: Lol yea fine, from the whole thing started I haven't brought him out, rather be safe than sorry

From that text, I get that she would have called me. But from this morning I already predicted she was not going to call. This is not the first time she said "I will call or text you" and then never followed up on that promise. I just opened her Whatsapp so she saw I read the message and I am just going to not reply at all.

I totally understand that life happens, she might have gotten busy with something super important, however it's a trend, she rarely follows on promises made. I know for a fact, if I am going to get her to call me back, I would have to ring her phone first and then hang up and that is the only way she might send me a text or call back.

I will just focus this time on improving my skills and becoming a lover while in quarantine and maybe, just maybe I will talk to her again when Coronavirus ends. Until then I predict a 99% rate she will not call or text me once.

It's sad but a fact, I still like her :(

Troy

@Troy

I agree with @Skills and in general the advice he gave you is what you need to develop as a seducer.

My advice about bringing the kid in tow was specifically for this particular case and since she mentioned her son to you so many times. As Skills mentioned, I saw this one as a lost cause and a date with the kid in tow was the only way you were going to have a chance at saving it by buying you some more time.

When you get more advanced then it won't matter if you have kids along or not, you can still build attraction and the women will take care of the logistics. But you're not there yet.... keep working at it ;)
 

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Troy i think, and i am speculating, it was valentines she was alone, you were a cute guy, she was feeling you at the time, and most girls do not want to spend valentines alone.... She was into you at that moment, all exited, and then the momentum was lost (happens to everybody in this case corona may have played a role to), the taking so long to text back, the never initiating etc.... also is concerning (she may not be that much into you, and/or may have another dude)......

@Skills I think that sounds about right. She still lives with her Mom and actually let me know she hates going home early because her Mom always nags her and gives a negative vibe. Usually after she leaves work she hangs out with her 2 best friends, a guy and girl from her high school.

I was about to also go home alone on Valentine's Day and it just so happened that we went out together that evening. I had nothing planned, I just was being my natural self, she loved it, I gave her a wonderful evening and she kissed me good night and gave me her roses. Just no sex. I think she just wanted some company on Valentine's Day and I just happened to be a great fit at the time. I think she would have preferred to spend the evening with me rather than going home at 5PM on Valentines Day.

I still think a second date very soon after would have prevented this whole momentum lost situation if it weren't for the Coronavirus, I could have taken that kiss from the 1st date and escalated more on a 2nd date. She mentioned being single, but we know women just say that at times. She may be single, but may still be getting good dick on the side even now, I don't know.

When you get more advanced then it won't matter if you have kids along or not, you can still build attraction and the women will take care of the logistics. But you're not there yet.... keep working at it

@Razorjack

Yeah I will keep working on my skills. She might be a lost case. For now I think the best thing is to do as you say, improve myself and maybe me and Patrice will meet up after Coronavirus. And if that never happens, at least I will have more skills to get way more girls

P.S. Right now she is online texting other persons. I know I should not be "watching her status" it just happens with my tempation. She still has not called and I know for a fact she never had the intention to call either. So NEXT her it is!

Troy
 
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