Retention Question

Hi all,

Been trying to replace a lost 3rd girl in my rotation.

I’ve slept with 2 new girls from 3 new dates in the last 3 months but hitting retention issues due to low compatibility and the game being the game lol.

Latest new girl has slept with me x3 times & I thought I got lock in but when I asked to hang out I got this:

“heya, firstly really appreciate that meme, made me smile
yeah about that, I’m really not dealing well with this lockdown and not knowing when am I seeing my family and all that jazz, feel really down so I’ll go and stay with female friend in 123 location for a bit. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to hang out with this version of me, so I’ll let you know when I’m back and more mentally stable lol”

I then replied no worries with a reference to an inside joke. Before following up with a warm voice note 5 days later just checking on how she was doing which she listened to & ignored.

To give context I think this was a mistake as I was essentially rewarding bad behaviour because we only text when I’m asking her to hang out.

Her message could be genuine as she’s from mainland Europe & she can’t go home for Xmas.

The flip side is she could be uninterested as I had to persist for about x3 weeks to win her over as she was very flakey at the start. Although it got better & she’d come straight to mine & arrive early when she did commit to the meet.

So far I’ve gone no contact & it’s been over a week. Going to leave it a minimum of another week before I even think of following up.

Any ideas on how best to approach it?

Yes I am also texting & arranging dates with other new girls. I’m also just tempted to move on as I don’t like the whole persisting dynamic I’ve set the precedent of.

DoWhatWorks said:

Any ideas on how best to approach it?

Yes I am also texting & arranging dates with other new girls. I’m also just tempted to move on as I don’t like the whole persisting dynamic I’ve set the precedent of.

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Your subjective value to her is not high enough for her to drop everything.

In my view, that's actually a good thing. And in my opinion guys that spend a lot of time maintaining weak tie relationships with girls that are just cock sockets is madness.

If you want this chick to be on your team

1. Sell out and put her on your team - define the relationship, get her to agree, then establish boundaries, lead, then punish and reward as necessary. Doesn't need to be a mono, but don't be surprised if she pushes for it now, or later. If your game is good, she should want to lock you down.

2. Make the sex with you a highlight of her crowded life - YaReally talked about this a lot. And I glean from the Thin Man that a lot of his long term appeal is how far from the norm he was for most women - and they'd crave that.

YaReally - mostly into intense sex games, ritualistic stuff. Mystery did this to some extent (the whole candles bit, that he set up as a Freeze Out Routine), but he didn't emphasize it imo. Traditional BMG is all about the music, the incense, the weed/libations, etc.

Thin Man (my take on him, others may disagree) - he gave the chick a full fantasy - the fantasy goes beyond the sex. I go by the idea that the sex with a girl starts when she notices you. Everything up until the sex is foreplay, and if you fuck more than once = even the first bang is foreplay. For guys into BDSM, the sexual state is her entire life.

3. A Red Pill Approach - which is a bastardization/evolution of PUA, but I digress
- Build Your Life Up - Muscles, Money, Real World Social Status, Online Status (Looks Money Status)
- Induce Fear of Missing Out with your social media
- Plausibly deniable sexual pre-selection on social media, and not being available during prime dating/sex hours.
- Give her the gift of missing you by not contacting her. (old school PUA!!!)

The idea is to make her an alpha widow. You become the one that gets away.

....

That said, I think what you want is dumb. Covid induced drought or not, I would not try to corral a wayward chick. If after spending time with me she can't see what I offer, I can't make her smarter. I have more important things to do than chase her down to resell her on the WIA experience.

WIA

I think she is genuinely stressing with the covid stuff.... I think you made a mistake with a phone call (from text to all of a sudden phone call on how she is doing, was a slight mistake make come across as neediness which kills attraction)... The right move is to give her space and let her ping you back on her own.... Or you ping her just to say happy thanksingving, or in chirstmas merry christmas etcc... to gauge reaction...

Also winter is boyfriend season a lot of this girls during winter get all depress and are looking for boyfriend for holidays (i have made this point in multiple posts)... By the way at this time of the year i always see the same type of posts and people pming me the same similar scenarios...

@West_Indian_Archie thanks for your feedback. Your overall sentiment is what I needed to hear.

Could you please clarify this bit? Didn't understand it:

West_Indian_Archie said:

And in my opinion guys that spend a lot of time maintaining weak tie relationships with girls that are just cock sockets is madness.

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Think I'm definitely guilty of going through the motions with this girl. When I think back to girls I've heavily hooked in the past I've been the "escape" you mentioned. Whether it's through fun taboo acts, multiple orgasms, candle light dinners or basically being a therapist lol.

I got into a chill, Netflix, "decent" sex routine with this girl. Hence why she's not blown away - Note taken for next time!

@Skills I had similar thoughts the voice note was a mistake and agreed this time of the year is not the best for dating. Although if you show more BF qualities early November it's arguably easier to move quickly with girls - just makes FB/expectation management harder in the new year though.

With this girl I've deleted her number & will let her come to me. That will then re-set the dynamic in the right way if she hmu

Thanks both!

DoWhatWorks said:

yeah about that, I’m really not dealing well with this lockdown and not knowing when am I seeing my family and all that jazz, feel really down so I’ll go and stay with female friend in 123 location for a bit. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to hang out with this version of me, so I’ll let you know when I’m back and more mentally stable lol”

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This could just be a test to see if you care which shows you value her and she will try and get you into a relation ship. If this is the case then follow @West_Indian_Archie poinrs 1 and 2, if not just move on.

Equally it could be just as @Skills said and she's telling the truth.

You'll have to judge this based on being on the inside.

DoWhatWorks said:

@West_Indian_Archie thanks for your feedback. Your overall sentiment is what I needed to hear.

Could you please clarify this bit? Didn't understand it:



Think I'm definitely guilty of going through the motions with this girl. When I think back to girls I've heavily hooked in the past I've been the "escape" you mentioned. Whether it's through fun taboo acts, multiple orgasms, candle light dinners or basically being a therapist lol.

I got into a chill, Netflix, "decent" sex routine with this girl. Hence why she's not blown away - Note taken for next time!

@Skills I had similar thoughts the voice note was a mistake and agreed this time of the year is not the best for dating. Although if you show more BF qualities early November it's arguably easier to move quickly with girls - just makes FB/expectation management harder in the new year though.

With this girl I've deleted her number & will let her come to me. That will then re-set the dynamic in the right way if she hmu

Thanks both!

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i don't get why you guys and even girls delete numbers, i never in my life deleted a number, specially a girl you had sex with...

Skills said:

i don't get why you guys and even girls delete numbers, i never in my life deleted a number, specially a girl you had sex with...

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I see your point of view as you build a rolodex list buttttttt you're experienced with girls.

For beginners & intermediate deleting is good because it forces you to improve & replace rather than force dead end unwilling girls.

Helps with setting personal boundaries for interactions you will and won't allow too. Girls sense this and treat you better long term.

Don't know about you but how I get girls is nearly as important as getting the girl & keeping them. Should be fun/easy not forced IMO.

DoWhatWorks said:

I see your point of view as you build a rolodex list buttttttt you're experienced with girls.

For beginners & intermediate deleting is good because it forces you to improve & replace rather than force dead end unwilling girls.

Helps with setting personal boundaries for interactions you will and won't allow too. Girls sense this and treat you better long term.

Don't know about you but how I get girls is nearly as important as getting the girl & keeping them. Should be fun/easy not forced IMO.

Click to expand...

^ yean i can do all that without deleting the number, how about you learn how to do all ^ without deleting the number.... deleting the number is a mistake cause women come back, and you can ping dead leads eventually once you have moved on..

Skills said:

^ yean i can do all that without deleting the number, how about you learn how to do all ^ without deleting the number.... deleting the number is a mistake cause women come back, and you can ping dead leads eventually once you have moved on..

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Very good point. Ego aside I’ve got emotional control to work on so I can consistently do it too. I ironically got this girl in the 1st place by pinging for longer than I usually would have before deleting her number.

My % of bringing a girl back from the past is only 7% (I track this stuff) & the work involved was way more effort than just getting a new girl. I.E dealing with her uninterest, flakiness & feeling like she "has me" but that's probably more of a me problem of needing to improve too.

As always thanks for your comments. Looking to make that transition from intermediate to expert & these help a lot.

DoWhatWorks said:

My % of bringing a girl back from the past is only 7% (I track this stuff) & the work involved was way more effort than just getting a new girl. I.E dealing with her uninterest, flakiness & feeling like she "has me" but that's probably more of a me problem of needing to improve too.

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ya i'm in favor of deleting numbers for this reason. extremely low percentage game. in terms of girls that I only laid once or just got as far as making out with. Girls that were your fbs (2+ bangs) is a diff story.

DoWhatWorks said:

@West_Indian_Archie thanks for your feedback. Your overall sentiment is what I needed to hear.

Could you please clarify this bit? Didn't understand it:

Click to expand...

I think a lot of newbs (and some vets) are very into having rotations. They want a regular supply of sex from a few women. They also want to do the very minimum to maintain these relationships.

That's a shit ton of work for very little reward.

To "spin plates" which is very big in the RP community, means that you need to put at least 10% of your focus on keeping the girl engaged with you. And you have to do more than post on social media.

• Sending and replying to texts.
• Phone calls.
• Good sex on her schedule as well.
• Doing a lot to maintain the emotional balance of the girl.
• Keeping your own emotions in check while she fucks other guys. (Plenty of dudes that try this want the girl to only fuck him, but at the same time give the girl emotional crumbs)

In my view, a guy is much better off developing his "same night lay" game/or his "1 date to bang" game instead.

Now if your sex game is already the bomb, the girl does all this work for you.

But if your dick game was that good - you would not be asking this question.

Other guys have different takes on this. They'd rather secure pussy and keep the plate spinning than go out and find new chicks.

I'm not one of those guys.

WIA

Ok read the actual OP

DoWhatWorks said:

hitting retention issues due to low compatibility

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DoWhatWorks said:

The flip side is she could be uninterested as I had to persist for about x3 weeks to win her over as she was very flakey at the start.

Click to expand...

DoWhatWorks said:

I don’t like the whole persisting dynamic I’ve set the precedent of.

Click to expand...

The persisting dynamic has always been there from the start. I know this is the chick who in addition to it taking 3 dates to bang her, also flaked on you 4 times:

DoWhatWorks said:

This was a cool lay for me because I have a rule where I don't persist with girls who've re-scheduled with me twice. I broke the rule with this girl (who did it 4x lol)

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yet she was the example you used of 'persisting done right'
To me this just goes back to your very own 'one thing I wish I knew before'

DoWhatWorks said:

girls who actually like you aren't "hard to get".

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And RazorJack's:

Razorjack said:

This was written more as a learning lesson if I could go back in time to advise my younger advanced self

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West_Indian_Archie said:

2. Make the sex with you a highlight of her crowded life - YaReally talked about this a lot. And I glean from the Thin Man that a lot of his long term appeal is how far from the norm he was for most women - and they'd crave that.

YaReally - mostly into intense sex games, ritualistic stuff. Mystery did this to some extent (the whole candles bit, that he set up as a Freeze Out Routine), but he didn't emphasize it imo. Traditional BMG is all about the music, the incense, the weed/libations, etc.

Thin Man (my take on him, others may disagree) - he gave the chick a full fantasy - the fantasy goes beyond the sex. I go by the idea that the sex with a girl starts when she notices you. Everything up until the sex is foreplay, and if you fuck more than once = even the first bang is foreplay. For guys into BDSM, the sexual state is her entire life.

Click to expand...

@West_Indian_Archie This is pure gold. I think this is what the new generation who came into the Game post 2010 have missed. And I remember reading an article on your blog defending elaborate routines and in that you mentioned that while such routines are definitely overkill to merely have sex with a girl once, those are designed to take the girl on a complete rollercoaster and make her believe you are truly one of a kind and someone who she is completely captivated by. As I re-watch Mystery's stuff I see him emphasizing over and over again that "the Game is won in Comfort". Now all his elaborate stories and routines both during attraction and especially the comfort phase make sense.

When I first got into this thing, I thought doing bare minimum comfort and getting into seduction and having sex with the girl asap was the big goal. It did work for quick lays, but I had the same problem of retention. Now I am the guy who slows things down, and the girls I get with seem to fall deeper and harder and aren't looking to go anywhere!

terminator92 said:

When I first got into this thing, I thought doing bare minimum comfort and getting into seduction and having sex with the girl asap was the big goal

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Ya that was YaReally's advice (who was the master of retaining girls):

Mystery's A1-S3 will never change because that's just an observation of how human interaction works, but the parts of it you stress or loop between or let drop off (like these days I'm finding better results by dropping the rapport/comfort to a minimal amount instead of a huge amount like we used to stress, because a lot of <25yo girls don't WANT a Provider/boyfriend, they just want a Lover and the more rapport/comfort you get the harder it is to classify you as just a Lover so you'll get flakes with too much rapport/comfort, but they still need a BIT of it).

Comfort = we both more or less like the same things (similar/relatable) + turning her on.

Post-sex is when you guys can see if you like each other beyond being attracted to each (she sees potential in you being more than a ONS).

terminator92 said:

When I first got into this thing, I thought doing bare minimum comfort and getting into seduction and having sex with the girl asap was the big goal. It did work for quick lays, but I had the same problem of retention. Now I am the guy who slows things down, and the girls I get with seem to fall deeper and harder and aren't looking to go anywhere!

Click to expand...

Now you have a problem of quality.

And perversely, once you get to certain level, where you stink of "mojo" (c) Austin Powers - using less comfort, trying to push the girl away, causes her to chase more.

Not the normal cat and mouse in the first 30 minutes of meeting her, but strippers pulling out wifely behaviors. She ain't never made anything more than a hot pocket, and she wants to learn how to make Curry Chicken Jamaican style. She's showing you that she can invest in you, and will do more if you invest in her. (whether that actually happens long term is source of contention)

So I didn't expect this thread to pick up (pun intended) and it's shifted into a cost vs benefit as well as new girls vs retention aspect of game that I'm also big on.

Starting off, @West_Indian_Archie I've learnt tons from your posts & I don't question your expertise but I'll have to respectfully disagreee that spinning plates is:

West_Indian_Archie said:

a shit ton of work for very little reward.

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I wrote an in-depth post here on how I regularly sleep with x3 girls with minimal maintenance effort. A year old FB of mine gets a text from me once every 2 weeks. Most guys aren't purposeful & long term with their actions. It also isn't being taught only guy I know who does it is blackdragon 2.0.

West_Indian_Archie said:

But if your dick game was that good - you would not be asking this question.

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Painful for the ego to take but I'll concede lol. With this girl I didn't blow her away. You'll have a skewed data set though as I mostly use this forum when I hit a sticking point and don't post all my successes.

West_Indian_Archie said:

In my view, a guy is much better off developing his "same night lay" game/or his "1 date to bang" game instead

Click to expand...

Again respectfully disagree it depends on your goals. For me increasing retention has allowed me to keep my girl life on "maintenance" mode while I focus on Biz/career. Even in a black swan event like covid my sex life has been more or less un-impacted. My wing on the other hand who kills it with getting new girls but never bothers to keeps them around literally went from 2 new girls a month to 0 in the last 8 months.

Retention is the equivalent of having re-occurring revenue clients and saving your money for a rainy day.

I say all these points with absolute respect for you and to shine a light on the other side of the argument

@Velasco Agree with your point and the time/efficiency post link. Think my frustration with this is that this girl was showing signs that she was starting to "get in line" like my other FB's by being reliable, low maintenance & engaged but it's 1 step forward 2 steps back now

It's more advanced level game and I just have to accept the learning curve. This is a lay that I would have no idea how to pull off a year ago and in a year's time I'll take a girl like this and know how to make her smitten over me (if I choose to) with no headaches.

West_Indian_Archie said:

Not the normal cat and mouse in the first 30 minutes of meeting her, but strippers pulling out wifely behaviors. She ain't never made anything more than a hot pocket, and she wants to learn how to make Curry Chicken Jamaican style. She's showing you that she can invest in you, and will do more if you invest in her. (whether that actually happens long term is source of contention)

Click to expand...

In my opinion a girl will rarely treat you better then when she's in the "trying to lock you down as a bf" phase. It's the old you'll catch more bees with honey trick. The Curry chicken jamaican style is also so specific I know you must be referring to a situation ahahhaha.

I don't think it lasts long term though if you don't invest in her. Eventually she'll cut her losses. The investment also tends to be quite aggressive so it isn't sustainable if you then invest in her but you definitely get a better treatment overall than if she feels like she never had to "work for you" IMO

West_Indian_Archie said:

I think a lot of newbs (and some vets) are very into having rotations. They want a regular supply of sex from a few women. They also want to do the very minimum to maintain these relationships.

That's a shit ton of work for very little reward.

To "spin plates" which is very big in the RP community, means that you need to put at least 10% of your focus on keeping the girl engaged with you. And you have to do more than post on social media.

• Sending and replying to texts.
• Phone calls.
• Good sex on her schedule as well.
• Doing a lot to maintain the emotional balance of the girl.
• Keeping your own emotions in check while she fucks other guys. (Plenty of dudes that try this want the girl to only fuck him, but at the same time give the girl emotional crumbs)

In my view, a guy is much better off developing his "same night lay" game/or his "1 date to bang" game instead.

Now if your sex game is already the bomb, the girl does all this work for you.

But if your dick game was that good - you would not be asking this question.

Other guys have different takes on this. They'd rather secure pussy and keep the plate spinning than go out and find new chicks.

I'm not one of those guys.

WIA

Click to expand...

Wia you can do both (which is ideal having access to sex from women and looking for new ones)...

DoWhatWorks said:

So I didn't expect this thread to pick up (pun intended) and it's shifted into a cost vs benefit as well as new girls vs retention aspect of game that I'm also big on.

Starting off, @West_Indian_Archie I've learnt tons from your posts & I don't question your expertise but I'll have to respectfully disagreee that spinning plates is:



I wrote an in-depth post here on how I regularly sleep with x3 girls with minimal maintenance effort. A year old FB of mine gets a text from me once every 2 weeks. Most guys aren't purposeful & long term with their actions. It also isn't being taught only guy I know who does it is blackdragon 2.0.



Painful for the ego to take but I'll concede lol. With this girl I didn't blow her away. You'll have a skewed data set though as I mostly use this forum when I hit a sticking point and don't post all my successes.



Again respectfully disagree it depends on your goals. For me increasing retention has allowed me to keep my girl life on "maintenance" mode while I focus on Biz/career. Even in a black swan event like covid my sex life has been more or less un-impacted. My wing on the other hand who kills it with getting new girls but never bothers to keeps them around literally went from 2 new girls a month to 0 in the last 8 months.

Retention is the equivalent of having re-occurring revenue clients and saving your money for a rainy day.

I say all these points with absolute respect for you and to shine a light on the other side of the argument

@Velasco Agree with your point and the time/efficiency post link. Think my frustration with this is that this girl was showing signs that she was starting to "get in line" like my other FB's by being reliable, low maintenance & engaged but it's 1 step forward 2 steps back now

It's more advanced level game and I just have to accept the learning curve. This is a lay that I would have no idea how to pull off a year ago and in a year's time I'll take a girl like this and know how to make her smitten over me (if I choose to) with no headaches.



In my opinion a girl will rarely treat you better then when she's in the "trying to lock you down as a bf" phase. It's the old you'll catch more bees with honey trick. The Curry chicken jamaican style is also so specific I know you must be referring to a situation ahahhaha.

I don't think it lasts long term though if you don't invest in her. Eventually she'll cut her losses. The investment also tends to be quite aggressive so it isn't sustainable if you then invest in her but you definitely get a better treatment overall than if she feels like she never had to "work for you" IMO

Click to expand...

yeah having rotations is not a lot of work, and you can do both have rotations and get new women... Which is ideal... if only go out getting one night stands will totally lead to burn out, and you will eventually have dry spells... is good to have a main and girls that you rotate in and out constantly the key is on your terms... For me is not that complicated to have rotations...

DoWhatWorks said:

I don't think it lasts long term though if you don't invest in her. Eventually she'll cut her losses. The investment also tends to be quite aggressive so it isn't sustainable if you then invest in her but you definitely get a better treatment overall than if she feels like she never had to "work for you" IMO

Click to expand...

Haha, you know me well.

This is the thing that I've found on expecting women to be rational about love, sex, and relationships..

My idea of "retention" is that the girl wants to keep banging you needs a reason.

Could be the sex. Some guys have the magic stick. But when you listen to girls who can't give up on bad guys because of the sex - there's more than the size of the boat and motion in the ocean, there's a psychological component to the sex but also the rest of the relationship that keeps the girl in check.

Some girls target bad boys to fuck because of the poor treatment and the easy escape hatch in terms of not seeing them anymore.
That's how it starts. But then a few nights of passion, and she's hooked on the drug. And the typical bad boy is hot/cold, very sexual and exciting, very cold and harsh, passion - which leads to the rollercoaster of highs and lows that girls both hate and love.

Could be the lifestyle. When she rolls with you, she gets to eat good food, sleep in a nice place, do things, meet new people - stuff she would not ordinarily have access to. A lot of girls really do use guys to climb into social circles. Obvious stuff like the rich and powerful, but also things like the night club scene, the music/art scene, etc. I'm wary of girls that meet me and then suddenly want to take up my hobbies, follow my interests. (doubled edge sword).

Could be that she is actually in love with you. (or at least in love with the idea of being in love, and you're a good candidate for her fantasy.) That's one of those female mysteries that I don't think can be explained, even if there are lots of explanations.

But more often than not, You're the Best Guy in her life for right now, but as time goes on, The Best Guy PERIOD.

So she won't cut her losses. A lot of chicks don't realize they're losing.

This is something that I've had to develop, call it a patriarchal sensibility, but I have cut chicks from the team after 3-4 months because they don't want to leave of their own accord. I start to see the signs of dependence, and I don't want that on my conscience.

Skills said:

Wia you can do both (which is ideal having access to sex from women and looking for new ones)...



yeah having rotations is not a lot of work, and you can do both have rotations and get new women... Which is ideal... if only go out getting one night stands will totally lead to burn out, and you will eventually have dry spells... is good to have a main and girls that you rotate in and out constantly the key is on your terms... For me is not that complicated to have rotations...

Click to expand...

This is true. Having a main and having jump offs is ideal, comes with game mastery.

Respect.

WIA