How do I get girls at work that I like?

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Wick: How you meet is important. The early stages of meeting anyone shapes the relationship long term. If you meet her in a dominant way, then you are likely to be wearing the pants and be seen as the leader of the relationship.

^ Here you sound like more like alpha male style, you are the dominant guy and she becomes submissive, she either sleeps with you or you walk, etc. I'm not saying it is a bad approach but I think there is much better way: that is cool, laid back, genuine attitude, even humbleness. This can be used by both, lover and provider. I'm also talking about work, so it is more complicated.

No no no, you are misunderstanding this. You need to forget everything you think you know and realize you have a lot to learn. Whatever image you have about this "alpha male style" is way off, because all I am talking about is taking action and leading which is BASIC game.

Provider game is not game. The ONLY game is lover game. You need to make women FEEL something.
Lover frame failed, all I have is provider frame. Provider frame seems to be surprisingly working, though it is slow and quite frustrating. I'm not really interested in going out and banging bunch of girls I don't care about. I would be perfectly happy with this one called gem. I was in LTR before and I truly miss it, and I'm simply looking for another one. It's a pain!

You failed so you're giving up. "Provider frame" might be working for you, but I would bet for reasons different than you are thinking. Also picking up girls at work is a horrible idea.

What you are trying to do is not play the "game". And that doesn't work. There are no shortcuts. But the good news is that it's fulfilling once you step up as a man. The challenge itself becomes enjoyable. But that requires some grit and testosterone.

Man up my boy. I'm giving you way more time than you deserve, but it's because I have a soft spot for guys like you. I was the same.

You CAN do it. You just need to drop the ego and realize you are a student of the game or you're just a chump who thinks he knows how to play.
 

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,083
By the way, I think @Skills posted this for you.


its a good read
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
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@Mali your mental model is way too simplified. You impose your own ideals on your perspective of women, which is the definition of madonna complex. This paragraph in particular is nothing more than wishful thinking:


Why do you say she would she not consider Doug? Because of your own dislike of Doug, not because of your accurate understanding of how a woman thinks. In reality many times women try very hard with Doug, and invest a lot in him, and sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed.

Women love nothing more than a good 'fix 'im up' story. They love to take the wild, unharnessed man full of potential, and nurse him into a powerful, dominant, and skilled operator who is loyal to her. And it's a very effective strategy - in principle.
...

The main problem, in my opinion, with the 'sexual marketplace' (as the red pillers like to call it) is that the foundations of effective mating strategy on both sides have been destroyed. Men are no longer capable of developing the balance of their inner beast and their inner father figure - that is, the concept associated with the desire to lead, to take care of and build things, to take responsibility for and defend things. And women are no longer capable of conceptualizing or properly enacting the path toward taming a man into something useful, because they lack any real concept of the balanced man and the process by which he is crafted from a boy. They tend to be either afraid of men or allow them to run roughshod over her, chaotically and impulsively trying to conjure into existence something they don't really understand.

This is because social conditioning has screwed everything up. Men nowadays are either puppy dogs, sheep or rampant wolves with no self control. This is because social conditioning has mercilessly attacked the concept of the wolf (the intermediary stage of the balanced man), such that the puppy dog has no chance to develop his wolf side before being railroaded into the herd as a sheep, or else escapes the herd entirely and lives a fringe, rebellious lifestyle evading the farmer and his gun, never developing any sense of loyalty and responsibility toward something greater than himself.

And because the wolf is vilified and hunted, females seldom come across this rare creature, and even though she longs to meet one and have him for herself (such is her biology), when she does so she reacts with either confusion and anxiety, or tries to mimic the farmer and whip him until he turns into a sheep, which, even when it works, does not satisfy her. She cannot conceptualize what lies in between the wolf and the sheep because society shows her no examples, and gives her no strategy to get there.

Luckily, she does have her biology (the true nature of which is again mercilessly attacked by social conditioning, because society wants to eradicate the wolf that plays a huge part in it), which gives her a certain amount of courage to try her hand with the wolf, and gives her certain instincts to be more effective, but since the wolf did not develop with any proper guidance, and has learned to fear and hate the farmer and his herd of which she is a part, the ingredients for him to become anything useful to her are severely lacking.

But even and so, the wolf is always the rarest and most valuable creature, because he alone has real potential. If he is lucky enough to find a guide who can turn him into a wise, calm, strategic, and forward-thinking pack leader without destroying him in the process, he is like refined gold and extremely rare, and any woman wants to get her hands on him. She will try again and again with wolves, often ruining herself and her future in the process, to make her dream - the dream that has been printed on her DNA - come true, but she can only do her part, and the part of the guide, which she cannot do (one cannot be the submissive, nurturing follower and the anvil that shapes the metal at the same time) is never done, and this results in chaos and failure of the whole project.
...

What is missing from your model is the fact that a successful sheep is still a sheep, at least a wolf can give a woman the chance to dream. That is why Doug (besides being a lot rarer than you think) is always in the picture, that is why the only real Joe is a Joe that used to be a Doug, and that is why she is always trying to turn a Doug into her very own Joe. And if a Doug can be turned into Joe without becoming a sheep, he stands a great chance of getting and keeping her investment, because he is an exceptionally rare and valuable catch, and especially if she played a part in his development.

The problem with your situation my friend (and I don't mean this as an insult, we are all trying to get where we want to be in life) is that you seem to be something of a successful sheep, and you cannot understand why high quality women are not terribly interested. In order to feel better about yourself, you have idealized your concept of a 'high quality woman' as one which immediately rejects a wolf, but in fact the only woman who immediately rejects a wolf is one which relies entirely on her place in the herd for her security and sense of value, which is not the case for pretty, ambitious and determined women. They, like the wolf, believe they can have anything they want, and what they want is to take a wolf and nurture him and make him loyal, there is no greater sense of achievement for any woman than that.

Part of the project of this site and Girls Chase in general, as I understand it, is to help men develop their inner wolf so that they represent high-value potential for women especially (and for life in general). That is why when guys here sense your narrow perspective, the only thing they can really say is 'become a wolf, then come back and we'll talk about it'. I suggest you do just that instead of being a sheep arguing with a pack of wolves about why he can't get what he wants.

Will_V: Why do you say she would she not consider Doug?

^ She would be stupid, risking too much. I know I'm repeating myself but think about it, if she is looking for LTR and she meets two guys:
1. Doug who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he won't stay around.
2. Joe who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he is planning to stay around.

Barbie can't even "keep" Doug around because by definition he will leave sooner or later. Doug is not going to orbit around her, he will try once or twice to bed her and he is gone. Why would she risk losing her reputation and Joe? She will hide Doug, keep him away, she will make sure Joe doesn't see or hear about her being with Doug. Simplest way is just dump Doug and fully focus on Joe. Barbie likely has many other orbiters around, just in case. Or she can walk to any bar, smile twice and get sex with every single guy she looks at there. So Doug doesn't really have that much value as he'd like to believe.


Will_V: Women love nothing more than a good 'fix 'im up' story. They love to take the wild, unharnessed man full of potential, and nurse him into a powerful, dominant, and skilled operator who is loyal to her. And it's a very effective strategy - in principle.

^ Yes, but that rather sounds like a provider (guy interested in LTR), a guy who is willing to stay and have her fix him into somebody 'better'. She knows that lover won't stick around, so why bother? I'm only assuming she is not a dummy.


Will_V: Men are no longer capable of developing the balance of their inner beast and their inner father figure - that is, the concept associated with the desire to lead, to take care of and build things, to take responsibility for and defend things.

^ Agree. Men are acting more feminine and women more masculine, as a result nobody is happy. I personally believe that women want men who have solid masculine frame, who lead the relationship forward. A guy who make a space with his masculinity so she can relax around him and be feminine.
-I call this guy 'high end provider', only because lover is not interested in relationship. Otherwise both can have the same qualities
-Lover only creates sex frame. High end provider creates sex frame plus relationship frame.
-'Low end provider' creates poor sex frame and poor relationship frame. Sex with him sucks and relationship is boring.


Will_V: Men nowadays are either puppy dogs, sheep or rampant wolves with no self control.

^ My words. Guys like that can be called 'low end providers'

Will_V: And because the wolf is vilified and hunted, females seldom come across this rare creature.

^ I agree, nicely described. I'm only adding, this wolf doesn't have to run away from relationships either. He can remain wolf. Imagine she gets this rare creature into LTR. She will love him, she do everything for him. She will dare to sleep around with Dougs because they lose value to her, they are too much of a risk. There are many wolfs just like that are in good relationships. Just try to seduce married woman who is happy with her wolf, you will have no chance no matter what you try.

Will_V: What is missing from your model is the fact that a successful sheep is still a sheep, at least a wolf can give a woman the chance to dream.

^ Successful sheep is just a 'low end provider': boring and immature guy, some sex, average job, frustration, not so many options with women.

Successful wolf is (or can be) 'high end provider'. Guy who has options, who takes care of himself, leads healthy lifestyle, invests into his future etc. Guy who knows what he wants, who hunts around and brings trophies home to share with her. If woman is looking for family and solid relationship, she wants guy like that, as long as he proves that he stays around so she can safely raise her kids. See her dilema when she meets guy just like that (lover), but he wants to run away? He may provide great and exciting sex, but he is not that great of overall value to her because sex is only one part of successful LTR.

Will_V: The problem with your situation my friend (and I don't mean this as an insult, we are all trying to get where we want to be in life) is that you seem to be something of a successful sheep, and you cannot understand why high quality women are not terribly interested.

^ Remember, wolf doesn't only hunt little rabbits. Wolf hunts for other pray, many times large ones. For top education and jobs, for good income, for great life. These may seem boring and sheeply from outside, but unless you accomplish anything yourself you just have no idea. It does take a lot of energy, ambitions, planning, dedication and many years to achieve anything in this highly competitive world. So I disagree here with you, I am a top wolf. Just not in bars or on the street.

Also, remember I'm talking about work environment, so there are little bit different rules. Lover frame doesn't apply that well which makes perfect sense, the 'high quality woman' who is very careful about her reputation can pay very high price should attractive wolf change into an ape! Rejection of lover's frame can be expected, it is pretty much given. Presenting lovers frame to a woman at work is actually a good way to test her slutiness. If she accepts, she is likely easy going. If not, well, you might have a good one.


Great readings!
 

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,083
@Mali

My dude... What is your argument?

That what we are saying doesn't work?

Then why is it working for us?

And why is what you are doing not working for you?
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
@Mali

My dude... What is your argument?

That what we are saying doesn't work?

Then why is it working for us?

And why is what you are doing not working for you?
I read your article. Sex is obviously important.

Wick: Provider game is not game. The ONLY game is lover game. You need to make women FEEL something.

^ So this is more complex. A guy approaches woman at work that seems to show some attraction, there are good vibes, he thinks she is a great woman, single, and he suggests lover frame. Her primitive brain gets excited right away for couple seconds, but her larger and logical brain takes over right away. She doesn't really know him, he could be too much risk for her reputation. So she declines with big smile. He really likes her and he is interested in LTR. So now what? He pulls back, waits couple days, and tries lover frame again. Though she seems to be somehow interested, she declines second time. Her logic now fully overwrote her exciting emotions, and now lover frame is out. Good bye, have a nice day lover, move on and try somebody else.

Me, similarly to what you wrote in your article, don't care if I get laid today, 2 weeks later or 3 months later. I'm willing to wait till she makes up her mind, and I am hoping she will make up her mind in my favor. I'm looking for relationship. Is sex involved in relationship? Of course, I agree with you. But it is not the only thing that I'm looking for.

There are some misconception here, perhaps that good relationships start only when a guy bangs the girl on a first date? Well, I can tell you from my experience, this is not true.
 

TomInHo

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
539
@Mali You are a lost cause but I'm going to give my 2c for other people reading to understand some more nuances in seduction

Will_V: Why do you say she would she not consider Doug?

^ She would be stupid, risking too much. I know I'm repeating myself but think about it, if she is looking for LTR and she meets two guys:
1. Doug who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he won't stay around.
2. Joe who is sexy, cool, laid back, has good options .... but he is planning to stay around.

What you don't get is that Doug and Joe are both Lovers. This a problem that a lot of newbies have, they think all lovers act the same, when the truth is there are multiple flavors of lovers. And please believe there are way more than 2 flavors

What's even crazier is that Doug and Joe can be the same exact guy. He will just morph and calibrate his frame according to the woman for a smoother and more enjoyable seduction for both of them

Barbie can't even "keep" Doug around because by definition he will leave sooner or later. Doug is not going to orbit around her, he will try once or twice to bed her and he is gone.

But did you ever think that sometimes women actually don't want Doug to stick around?

I know this may sound crazy but sometimes women may just want to get laid for getting laid sake. But you will never know that because you are not the kind of guy that women do this too

In fact, sometimes Doug wants to stick around but the girl wants nothing to do with him. All she wanted was some orgasms and her search for Prince Charming continues

Why would she risk losing her reputation and Joe?

Because she fucks Doug in secret... Duhhh

What Joe doesn't know won't hurt him

She will hide Doug, keep him away, she will make sure Joe doesn't see or hear about her being with Doug. Simplest way is just dump Doug and fully focus on Joe.

Ahh! But here is also the kicker

Sometimes she will fuck Doug with every intention of dumping him, but then he later surprises her. After rounds of hot sex, Doug opens up a little and she then realizes she may have made a wrong assessment. He actually has a lot of qualities similar to Joe and has now become even more mysterious to her

This can intrigue her and actually make her focus on Doug to see where their story goes while she keeps Joe as a nice backup plan just in case it doesn't work out

Barbie likely has many other orbiters around, just in case. Or she can walk to any bar, smile twice and get sex with every single guy she looks at there. So Doug doesn't really have that much value as he'd like to believe.

NO

Doug is actually very rare for women. They don't meet a lot of men that know how to push the right buttons and make her chase him for sex

He has tons of value

Will_V: Women love nothing more than a good 'fix 'im up' story. They love to take the wild, unharnessed man full of potential, and nurse him into a powerful, dominant, and skilled operator who is loyal to her. And it's a very effective strategy - in principle.

^ Yes, but that rather sounds like a provider (guy interested in LTR), a guy who is willing to stay and have her fix him into somebody 'better'. She knows that lover won't stick around, so why bother? I'm only assuming she is not a dummy.

She doesn't know a lover won't stick around. And that's what makes it exciting

If she is a very attractive woman she is used to men bending backwards for her. Even high value males treat her like a queen. But when she encounters a lover she experiences something she rarely experiences

A CHALLENGE

Bro, this is actually a fantasy of a lot of women. To find a wild stallion that she has to work hard to win over. She becomes obsessed with using every trick in her feminine book tor transform Doug into Joe

I'm mean just read romance novels and you will see that this trope is common and played out.

Will_V: Men are no longer capable of developing the balance of their inner beast and their inner father figure - that is, the concept associated with the desire to lead, to take care of and build things, to take responsibility for and defend things.

^ Agree. Men are acting more feminine and women more masculine, as a result nobody is happy. I personally believe that women want men who have solid masculine frame, who lead the relationship forward. A guy who make a space with his masculinity so she can relax around him and be feminine.
-I call this guy 'high end provider', only because lover is not interested in relationship. Otherwise both can have the same qualities
-Lover only creates sex frame. High end provider creates sex frame plus relationship frame.
-'Low end provider' creates poor sex frame and poor relationship frame. Sex with him sucks and relationship is boring.

Lovers don't only create sex frames G!

They create all frames necessary to get what they want in a timely manner. You are thinking too black and white

Will_V: And because the wolf is vilified and hunted, females seldom come across this rare creature.

^ I agree, nicely described. I'm only adding, this wolf doesn't have to run away from relationships either. He can remain wolf. Imagine she gets this rare creature into LTR. She will love him, she do everything for him. She will dare to sleep around with Dougs because they lose value to her, they are too much of a risk. There are many wolfs just like that are in good relationships. Just try to seduce married woman who is happy with her wolf, you will have no chance no matter what you try.

Again! Too black and white

Women can step out on men they even love if you push the right buttons. Is it easy? NO but it happens

Because the truth is no matter how great a man is, he will be lacking in something, and if you can demonstrate to her that it's possible for you to fulfill that dormant need then Prince Charming will be in a ton of trouble

Women are only loyal to their emotions and nothing else

Will_V: What is missing from your model is the fact that a successful sheep is still a sheep, at least a wolf can give a woman the chance to dream.

^ Successful sheep is just a 'low end provider': boring and immature guy, some sex, average job, frustration, not so many options with women.

Successful wolf is (or can be) 'high end provider'. Guy who has options, who takes care of himself, leads healthy lifestyle, invests into his future etc. Guy who knows what he wants, who hunts around and brings trophies home to share with her. If woman is looking for family and solid relationship, she wants guy like that, as long as he proves that he stays around so she can safely raise her kids. See her dilema when she meets guy just like that (lover), but he wants to run away? He may provide great and exciting sex, but he is not that great of overall value to her because sex is only one part of successful LTR.

Why on earth are you so relationship focused? You come across as very needy and this is probably one of the reasons for your lack of success. Women can smell your desperation and want nothing to do with you

You're not a challenge

I am a top wolf. Just not in bars or on the street.

I agree! You are a top wolf in your imagination. Reality says otherwise

Also, remember I'm talking about work environment, so there are little bit different rules. Lover frame doesn't apply that well which makes perfect sense, the 'high quality woman' who is very careful about her reputation can pay very high price should attractive wolf change into an ape!

Again! You are just unaware of how to set all the proper frames necessary beyond just sexual ones to get her to want to ravage you despite all those barriers

Me, similarly to what you wrote in your article, don't care if I get laid today, 2 weeks later or 3 months later. I'm willing to wait till she makes up her mind, and I am hoping she will make up her mind in my favor. I'm looking for relationship. Is sex involved in relationship? Of course, I agree with you. But it is not the only thing that I'm looking for.

There are some misconception here, perhaps that good relationships start only when a guy bangs the girl on a first date? Well, I can tell you from my experience, this is not true.

You're willing to wait because your game is trash. If it was good you'll have found a woman that fell into your frame while the other girl was there still making up her mind.

I'll be blunt. The reason why women make you wait is because you are nothing special. You think you are unique but 95% of guys think and act exactly like you

That's why women meet you and feel no urgency. They've met so many guys like you before that they know exactly what they are going to get. A boring ass relationship with a boring ass dude

Plus they know you will always be there and don't offer anything they can't get from another guy. So why would they chase you?

You're average at best hence why you're getting average results

Rejection of lover's frame can be expected, it is pretty much given. Presenting lovers frame to a woman at work is actually a good way to test her slutiness. If she accepts, she is likely easy going. If not, well, you might have a good one.

Great readings!

This is exactly your problem. Too much reading and not enough living and testing your ideas in the real world

But hey, since you know so much you can shut all of us up by going out in the field and getting a quality woman using all your theories. Because if your game is really that good then you should have no problem getting want you want very quickly

Looking forward to reading your progress reports and don't worry I'm sure we are all willing to wait :)
 
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Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
@Mali You are a lost cause but I'm going to give my 2c for other people reading to understand some more nuances in seduction



What you don't get is that Doug and Joe are both Lovers. This a problem that a lot of newbies have, they think all lovers act the same, when the truth is there are multiple flavors of lovers. And please believe there are way more than 2 flavors

What's even crazier is that Doug and Joe can be the same exact guy. He will just morph and calibrate his frame according to the woman for a smoother and more enjoyable seduction for both of them



But did you ever think that sometimes women actually don't want Doug to stick around?

I know this may sound crazy but sometimes women may just want to get laid for getting laid sake. But you will never know that because you are not the kind of guy that women do this too

In fact, sometimes Doug wants to stick around but the girl wants nothing to do with him. All she wanted was some orgasms and her search for Prince Charming continues



Because she fucks Doug in secret... Duhhh

What Joe doesn't know won't hurt him



Ahh! But here is also the kicker

Sometimes she will fuck Doug with every intention of dumping him, but then he later surprises her. After rounds of hot sex, Doug opens up a little and she then realizes she may have made a wrong assessment. He actually has a lot of qualities similar to Joe and has now become even more mysterious to her

This can intrigue her and actually make her focus on Doug to see where their story goes while she keeps Joe as a nice backup plan just in case it doesn't work out



NO

Doug is actually very rare for women. They don't meet a lot of men that know how to push the right buttons and make her chase him for sex

He has tons of value



She doesn't know a lover won't stick around. And that's what makes it exciting

If she is a very attractive woman she is used to men bending backwards for her. Even high value males treat her like a queen. But when she encounters a lover she experiences something she rarely experiences

A CHALLENGE

Bro, this is actually a fantasy of a lot of women. To find a wild stallion that she has to work hard to win over. She is becomes obsessed with using every trick in her feminine book tor transform Doug into Joe

I'm mean just read romance novels and you will see that this trope is common and played out.



Lovers don't only create sex frames G!

They create all frames necessary to get what they want in a timely manner. You are thinking too black and white



Again! Too black and white

Women can step out on men they even love if you push the right buttons. Is it easy? NO but it happens

Because the truth is no matter how great a man is, he will be lacking in something, and if you can demonstrate to her that it's possible for you to fulfill that dormant need then Prince Charming will be in a ton of trouble

Women are only loyal to their emotions and nothing else



Why on earth are you so relationship focused? You come across as very needy and this is probably one of the reasons for your lack of success. Women can smell your desperation and want nothing to do with you

You're not a challenge



I agree! You are a top wolf in your imagination. Reality says otherwise



Again! You are just unaware of how to set all the proper frames necessary beyond just sexual ones to get her to want to ravage you despite all those barriers



You're willing to wait because your game is trash. If it was good you'll have found a woman that fell into your frame while the other girl was there still making up her mind.

I'll be blunt. The reason why women make you wait is because you are nothing special. You think you are unique but 95% of guys think and act exactly like you

That's why women meet you and feel no urgency. They've met so many guys like you before that they know exactly what they are going to get. A boring ass relationship with a boring ass dude

Plus they know you will always be there and don't offer anything they can't get from another guy. So why would they chase you?

You're average at best hence why you're getting average results



This exactly your problem. Too much reading and not enough living and testing you your ideas in the real world

But hey, since you know so much you can shut all of us up by going out in the field and getting a quality woman using all your theories. Because if your game is really that good then you should have no problem getting want you want very quickly

Looking forward to reading your progress reports and don't worry I'm sure we are all willing to wait :)
Ok, I get you TomInHo. You would approach girl at work and she would sleep with you the same day because your game is great and mine sucks. Seriously.

I wrote this to Wick but I’m interested in what would you do after second attempt:

A guy approaches woman at work that seems to show some attraction, there are good vibes, he thinks she is a great woman, single, and he suggests lover frame. Her primitive brain gets excited right away for couple seconds, but her larger and logical brain takes over right away. She doesn't really know him, he could be too much risk for her reputation. So she declines with big smile. He really likes her and he is interested in LTR. So now what? He pulls back, waits couple days, and tries lover frame again. Though she seems to be somehow interested, she declines second time. Her logic now fully overwrote her exciting emotions, and now lover frame is out. Good bye, have a nice day lover, move on and try somebody else.


this assuming that you like her more than other girls you meet, and you are interested in LTR.

- Try another approach with lover frame?
- Put her on back burner, walk away and focus on other girls?
- Else?
 
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TomInHo

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
539
Ok, I get you TomInHo. You would approach girl at work and she would sleep with you the same day because your game is great and mine sucks. Seriously.

Nope! I've had women from work invite me to their place to fuck. But I don't actively try to game girls at work. I just flirt cause I'm bored and they make moves on me. I never try to fuck them the same day because I don't care...

I also have clients that are women and have to routinely dodge their attempts to get sex from me. But I am human and admit I did fuck a client once. She ended up being my sugar momma for 3 years but had to end the relationship because she wanted to get married and have kids while I wasn't ready for that

Therefore, I see no point in messing up my money for sex that I can get outside of work with less repercussions and potential revenue loss

I wrote this to Wick but I’m interested in what would you do after second attempt:

A guy approaches woman at work that seems to show some attraction, there are good vibes, he thinks she is a great woman, single, and he suggests lover frame. Her primitive brain gets excited right away for couple seconds, but her larger and logical brain takes over right away.

I wouldn't approach a girl at work personally. I just flirt with them and don't care how the interaction goes. They are a pleasant distraction during breaks from work

She doesn't really know him, he could be too much risk for her reputation.

Well usually when I'm flirting with them they can tell from my behaviors and sub-communication that I get women. I also tend to share some of my escapades with the dudes because we all love talking about women. But I make sure to not tell them real names or show pictures of the women because guys can be morons with that stuff

Usually those dudes end up telling the girls about my reputation

But since I'm chill and never make super forward moves with them it tends to make them intrigued why I'm not trying to fuck them yet act very warm and sexual

So she declines with big smile.

She declined because you made a move before she showed interest. Like you said women are very cautious of their reputations and they have no idea if you are discreet because of your uncalibrated move

He really likes her and he is interested in LTR.

She doesn't care. She cares about her reputation remember. She has no idea if this guy is going to be clingy or even have value in a relationship.

Plus when you come in with a relationship frame you make her pull out her checklist to see if you are worth all the trouble of risking her income for a relationship that could end and ruin her reputation at work

It's much easier if you come in discreet and offer just sex. That way she can potentially enjoy you in secret and keep you as a fling and/or vet you for BF qualities while you're sleeping together.

As long as she feels she can have fun with you with little to no repercussions she is more likely to bite

So now what? He pulls back, waits couple days, and tries lover frame again.

He already fucked up. He's chasing

She wants to chase you... remember that. Stop robbing women of their ultimate fantasy

Though she seems to be somehow interested, she declines second time.

Yes because he is showing lack of social awareness and now she knows he is too much of a risk to get sexual with

Her logic now fully overwrote her exciting emotions, and now lover frame is out.

Lover frame was never in. A calibrated lover will never act like him so she has now removed him as a sexual option because if he is this incompetent socially. . . what are the chances he can give her an orgasm or emotionally rich experience?

Good bye, have a nice day lover, move on and try somebody else.

He wasn't a lover. He was just another loser that wanted sex without thinking about what she needed emotionally and logistically to make it happen

- Try another approach with lover frame?
- Put her on back burner, walk away and focus on other girls?
- Else?

Improve your social awareness. Because you need more than just slapping on a weak lover frame to get laid at work
 
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Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,083
A guy approaches woman at work
This is a problem right here.

This guy has such a lack of options he’s doing the worst kind of game.

I suggest you avoid trying to meet women at work and do the work of figuring out how to meet people in situations where the odds are not so stacked against you

Here’s something I left out in my original post to you: this is a numbers game. Approaching one woman at work is like trying to find a shark tooth at the beach by picking up ONE shell.
Or she can walk to any bar, smile twice and get sex with every single guy she looks at there.

This sums up your inexperience and lack of knowledge of how women work.

You make long replies but did not answer my questions above...

Let me ask again.

What are you doing? What is your goal with these posts? Why are you assuming you know things when we are telling you from direct experience that your thinking is very flawed. We have also given you advice for you on how to learn and accomplish your goals.

So what are you doing?

Don’t write a long reply, just answer these questions.

Because those answers will determine if you will succeed or just spend a lot of time on forums.
 

PaulieFlyn10

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
203
Nope! I've had women from work invite me to their place to fuck. But I don't actively try to game girls at work. I just flirt cause I'm bored and they make moves on me. I never try to fuck them the same day because I don't care...

I also have clients that are women and have to routinely dodge their attempts to get sex from me. But I am human and admit I did fuck a client once. She ended up being my sugar momma for 3 years but had to end the relationship because she wanted to get married and have kids while I wasn't ready for that

Therefore, I see no point in messing up my money for sex that I can get outside of work with less repercussions and potential revenue loss



I wouldn't approach a girl at work personally. I just flirt with them and don't care how the interaction goes. They are a pleasant distraction during breaks from work



Well usually when I'm flirting with them they can tell from my behaviors and sub-communication that I get women. I also tend to share some of my escapades with the dudes because we all love talking about women. But I make sure to not tell them real names or show pictures of the women because guys can be morons with that stuff

Usually those dudes end up telling the girls about my reputation

But since I'm chill and never make super forward moves with them it tends to make them intrigued why I'm not trying to fuck them yet act very warm and sexual



She declined because you made a move before she showed interest. Like you said women are very cautious of their reputations and they have no idea if you are discreet because of your uncalibrated move



She doesn't care. She cares about her reputation remember. She has no idea if this guy is going to be clingy or even have value in a relationship.

Plus when you come in with a relationship frame you make her pull out her checklist to see if you are worth all the trouble of risking her income for a relationship that could end and ruin her reputation at work

It's much easier if you come in discreet and offer just sex. That way she can potentially enjoy you in secret and keep you as a fling and/or vet you for BF qualities while you're sleeping together.

As long as she feels she can have fun with you with little to no repercussions she is more likely to bite



He already fucked up. He's chasing

She wants to chase you... remember that. Stop robbing women of their ultimate fantasy



Yes because he is showing lack of social awareness and now she knows he is too much of a risk to get sexual with



Lover frame was never in. A calibrated lover will never act like him so she has now removed him as a sexual option because he if he this incompetent socially what are the chances he can give her an orgasm or emotionally rich experience?



He wasn't a lover. He was just another loser that wanted sex without thinking about what she needed emotionally and logistically to make it happen



Improve your social awareness. Because you need more than just slapping on a weak lover frame to get laid at work
Great reply man. Learning a lot.

Any recommendations/ on getting better with lover frames and social frames and calibrated sexual frames?
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
Nope! I've had women from work invite me to their place to fuck. But I don't actively try to game girls at work. I just flirt cause I'm bored and they make moves on me. I never try to fuck them the same day because I don't care...

I also have clients that are women and have to routinely dodge their attempts to get sex from me. But I am human and admit I did fuck a client once. She ended up being my sugar momma for 3 years but had to end the relationship because she wanted to get married and have kids while I wasn't ready for that

Therefore, I see no point in messing up my money for sex that I can get outside of work with less repercussions and potential revenue loss



I wouldn't approach a girl at work personally. I just flirt with them and don't care how the interaction goes. They are a pleasant distraction during breaks from work



Well usually when I'm flirting with them they can tell from my behaviors and sub-communication that I get women. I also tend to share some of my escapades with the dudes because we all love talking about women. But I make sure to not tell them real names or show pictures of the women because guys can be morons with that stuff

Usually those dudes end up telling the girls about my reputation

But since I'm chill and never make super forward moves with them it tends to make them intrigued why I'm not trying to fuck them yet act very warm and sexual



She declined because you made a move before she showed interest. Like you said women are very cautious of their reputations and they have no idea if you are discreet because of your uncalibrated move



She doesn't care. She cares about her reputation remember. She has no idea if this guy is going to be clingy or even have value in a relationship.

Plus when you come in with a relationship frame you make her pull out her checklist to see if you are worth all the trouble of risking her income for a relationship that could end and ruin her reputation at work

It's much easier if you come in discreet and offer just sex. That way she can potentially enjoy you in secret and keep you as a fling and/or vet you for BF qualities while you're sleeping together.

As long as she feels she can have fun with you with little to no repercussions she is more likely to bite



He already fucked up. He's chasing

She wants to chase you... remember that. Stop robbing women of their ultimate fantasy



Yes because he is showing lack of social awareness and now she knows he is too much of a risk to get sexual with



Lover frame was never in. A calibrated lover will never act like him so she has now removed him as a sexual option because if he is this incompetent socially. . . what are the chances he can give her an orgasm or emotionally rich experience?



He wasn't a lover. He was just another loser that wanted sex without thinking about what she needed emotionally and logistically to make it happen



Improve your social awareness. Because you need more than just slapping on a weak lover frame to get laid at work
TomInHo, with most of what you wrote I agree, overall good work.

Just couple points:
I used to flirt quite a lot at another location but I no longer do it. Those who made move on me were usually 6-7 on my scale, honestly I didn't care much about them, just flirt fun but no vibes. I don't know if you read what I wrote about Woman A couple days ago, initially I got her to my place, but failed to escalate. I didn't really flirt much with her, it was more mutual interest conversations. We then continued to interact over time, and as I describe she was getting ready to dump her hubby and I was likely lined up as replacement.
In stead of flirting, I think genuine approach, warm, cool, laid back fits me better.

TomInHo: I did fuck a client once. She ended up being my sugar momma for 3 years but had to end the relationship because she wanted to get married and have kids while I wasn't ready for that.

This is kinda what I wrote about. Imagine that woman, she is in relationship with a guy for 3 years, she really likes him, she wants family and kids, and then he leaves. I know you don't care but put yourself in her shoes. She was probably frustrated after you left, banged couple of orbitals to feel better about herself, now she is having regrets about you, in her eyes you wasted 3 years of her life. She'll be probably messed up for next 10 years since you left and her biological clock is ticking. If she doesn't tie down some provider she may not have kids at all, or she could be miserable for the rest of her life, or ends up as single momma. I think you were representing Doug here. If I were Joe and met this woman and were interested in her, she would have to hide you from me really good. If I realized she spent 3 years with a fuck boy who banged at the same time bunch of other women, oh no, thank you, I'm moving on. She is not high quality girl in my eyes because she made poor choice, she has poor judgement or she doesn't have the IQ to understand consequences of her choice. Now she still want family, so she has to look for another guy. Maybe, if you were honest from the very beginning that you are absolutely not interested in family her situation would be different. This is where I'm comming with my "provider frame", I am absolutely honest about my intentions and I expect the same from the woman I meet.

TomInHo: But since I'm chill and never make super forward moves with them it tends to make them intrigued why I'm not trying to fuck them yet act very warm and sexual

That's a really good strategy. But how do you make a move? Do you invite them or wait till they invite you? How long do you wait?

TomInHo: It's much easier if you come in discreet and offer just sex. That way she can potentially enjoy you in secret and keep you as a fling and/or vet you for BF

I get that, but have no idea how to implement it in real life. "Hey, wanna have sex", even if I tried indirectly doesn't work for me.

TomInHo: Yes because he is showing lack of social awareness and now she knows he is too much of a risk to get sexual with

I don't get this. Why is he a risk to get sexual with? If I invite somebody to meet outside of workplace, sex is given. I mean, I don't have to say "Hey, wanna have sex?". She knows I am a guy that asked her to meet up beyond work, and there is only one reason.

TomInHo: Lover frame was never in. A calibrated lover will never act like him so she has now removed him as a sexual option because if he is this incompetent socially. . . what are the chances he can give her an orgasm or emotionally rich experience?

I don't get this either. I suggested to meet up. There is only one reason guy wants to meet a woman, sex. Simply suggesting something like: "Hey I sense some attraction but this work place is not the best for us to talk or flirt. People talk If you want to keep descreet we should meet at another place. Why don't we go to some other place where we can talk and see where it goes?". My attitude also is "hey if it works and we have sex great, but if not no big deal. Since I'm inviting it must be obvious that I like you but I'm also not gonna creep after you".

She hit the brakes because she can't risk reputation. But why can't she get an orgasm or emotionally rich experience? That doesn't make sense.

TomInHo: He wasn't a lover. He was just another loser that wanted sex without thinking about what she needed emotionally and logistically to make it happen

Well, yea, but that is exactly the reason I suggested to meet up at other place than work!
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
This is a problem right here.

This guy has such a lack of options he’s doing the worst kind of game.

I suggest you avoid trying to meet women at work and do the work of figuring out how to meet people in situations where the odds are not so stacked against you

Here’s something I left out in my original post to you: this is a numbers game. Approaching one woman at work is like trying to find a shark tooth at the beach by picking up ONE shell.


This sums up your inexperience and lack of knowledge of how women work.

You make long replies but did not answer my questions above...

Let me ask again.

What are you doing? What is your goal with these posts? Why are you assuming you know things when we are telling you from direct experience that your thinking is very flawed. We have also given you advice for you on how to learn and accomplish your goals.

So what are you doing?

Don’t write a long reply, just answer these questions.

Because those answers will determine if you will succeed or just spend a lot of time on forums.
What are you doing? What is your goal with these posts? Why are you assuming you know things when we are telling you from direct experience that your thinking is very flawed. We have also given you advice for you on how to learn and accomplish your goals.

Hey Wick, I am very clear with my answers. There is a woman I like, she's 8-9 on my scale. I am interested in her and interested in LTR. I do sense her attraction over some time now. I also believe she is actually warming up. My goal is to find out where did I messed up, or if I messed up at all. For instance, Lover frame doesn't work well at work place. Looking back it was inevitable that she will decline any advances, but I don't believe I made a mistake trying it and at least suggesting sexual advances. I also know people who met at work and they are in great relationship. Did they bang the first day? I don't think so. Sometimes it took weeks or months. Other times maybe years, who knows. I'm not willing to wait years, but I can try months. Your answers are also clear, you keep telling me to forget her, walk away, don't approach anybody at work, and go bang some 5-6. Not interested in 5-6, thank you though.
 
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Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,083
go bang some 5-6. Not interested in 5-6, thank you though.
Whoa, where did I say this?

I personally think a man should only approach women he’s actually into. I only approach 8-10s.

And yes you have to bang them. Otherwise you’re just friendzoning and that’s not seduction. Sorry pal i don’t know how to expect to get good at this with out practicing and building the skill (meeting, dating, and sleeping with women).

This isn’t the matrix where you can download kung fu and suaveness into your brain. You have to hit the streets and put in some work.

Doesn’t matter how you fucked up with this girl at work. It could be 1000 different reasons especially for someone inexperienced. It doesn’t matter because the only thing you can do is move on and try again, this time armed with good advice. And then maybe someday you can look back and say “oh I see what happened now” but actually if you do it right you will completely forget about this girl and find a better one.

And you still didn’t answer my question.

Why do you think you’re right?
 

TomInHo

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
539
Just couple points:
I used to flirt quite a lot at another location but I no longer do it. Those who made move on me were usually 6-7 on my scale, honestly I didn't care much about them, just flirt fun but no vibes. I don't know if you read what I wrote about Woman A couple days ago, initially I got her to my place, but failed to escalate. I didn't really flirt much with her, it was more mutual interest conversations. We then continued to interact over time, and as I describe she was getting ready to dump her hubby and I was likely lined up as replacement.
In stead of flirting, I think genuine approach, warm, cool, laid back fits me better.

Why didn't you fuck her when you had the opportunity? Got scared?

TomInHo: I did fuck a client once. She ended up being my sugar momma for 3 years but had to end the relationship because she wanted to get married and have kids while I wasn't ready for that.

This is kinda what I wrote about. Imagine that woman, she is in relationship with a guy for 3 years, she really likes him, she wants family and kids, and then he leaves. I know you don't care but put yourself in her shoes.

You know nothing about me. I left her because I cared

I could have kept stringing her along for years but I knew it wasn't the right thing to do. I left to give her room to find a guy that wants the same thing as her. I'm not a cock-block and deep down wanted her to be happy, but knew i wasn't the right man for the job

She was probably frustrated after you left, banged couple of orbitals to feel better about herself, now she is having regrets about you, in her eyes you wasted 3 years of her life. She'll be probably messed up for next 10 years since you left and her biological clock is ticking. If she doesn't tie down some provider she may not have kids at all, or she could be miserable for the rest of her life, or ends up as single momma.

Life happens. I didn't force her to be with me. In fact she chased me throughout the relationship

I think you were representing Doug here. If I were Joe and met this woman and were interested in her, she would have to hide you from me really good. If I realized she spent 3 years with a fuck boy who banged at the same time bunch of other women, oh no, thank you, I'm moving on.

Firstly, this was the only woman in my entire life I was monogamous with. I wasn't fucking a bunch of women while I was with her. In fact at the end of the relationship she told she was cool with me fucking other women if it meant we could stay together

But I declined because I wanted her to find a man that wanted the same family life she wanted

TomInHo: But since I'm chill and never make super forward moves with them it tends to make them intrigued why I'm not trying to fuck them yet act very warm and sexual

That's a really good strategy. But how do you make a move? Do you invite them or wait till they invite you? How long do you wait?

I told you... I don't care

I don't actively game girls at work. To you it may seem like I'm running strategy but I literally just living my life and enjoying the good vibes from the social circle at work

I'm just telling you things I observed as reactions from my behavior

TomInHo: It's much easier if you come in discreet and offer just sex. That way she can potentially enjoy you in secret and keep you as a fling and/or vet you for BF

I get that, but have no idea how to implement it in real life. "Hey, wanna have sex", even if I tried indirectly doesn't work for me.

Of course you have no idea... you have no game

TomInHo: Yes because he is showing lack of social awareness and now she knows he is too much of a risk to get sexual with

I don't get this. Why is he a risk to get sexual with? If I invite somebody to meet outside of workplace, sex is given. I mean, I don't have to say "Hey, wanna have sex?". She knows I am a guy that asked her to meet up beyond work, and there is only one reason.

Your cluelessness proves my point

"Hey I sense some attraction but this work place is not the best for us to talk or flirt. People talk If you want to keep descreet we should meet at another place. Why don't we go to some other place where we can talk and see where it goes?"

OMG this is horrible!!! Your game is worse than I thought

Bro being discreet is a vibe. Women read in between the lines of things you say. You think to be discreet is saying one fancy line. It doesn't work that way....

If I talk to her seductively, give her suggestive looks, tell her stories about ex lovers that I had as secret relationships with, discuss work romances that she is aware of that are sloppy, discuss other interesting but relevant dynamics between males and females while dropping some sexual innuendo that's open to misinterpretation.... she knows exactly what kind of guy I am

So when I tell her "Hey! I know you smoke pot and I'm about to get in a smoke sesh. You're more than welcome to come" she knows exactly what is going to happen when we are alone with each other.

Her mouth is going to be nicely wrapped around my wooden bong as she inhales my heavenly goodness

My attitude also is "hey if it works and we have sex great, but if not no big deal. Since I'm inviting it must be obvious that I like you but I'm also not gonna creep after you".

Except you're not actually getting laid. So she is not attracted enough and/or you haven't removed enough barriers to make sex happen

TomInHo: He wasn't a lover. He was just another loser that wanted sex without thinking about what she needed emotionally and logistically to make it happen

Well, yea, but that is exactly the reason I suggested to meet up at other place than work!

I'm speechless

I suggest you start a journal on this forum and log your interactions with women on here. And yes you will need to also talk to women outside of work to improve because the more volume you can get the faster you will improve

Also please humble yourself, you don't know as much as you think you do. And if you log your progress while staying open minded to feedback, a lot of us will gladly help you
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,212
Location
South Florida
- yeah @TomInHo right on both guys in his sample lovers, and both guys can be the other guy in different situation.

- dealing with women from work and having onitis, shows lack of options..

- the dude talks in fictional paraboles bsaed on fictional projection

- the op is an askhole wasting everyones time
- make a journal and humbly take advise.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
5,484
Retitled the thread so it reflects what the discussion is actually about.

I don't think anything else really needs to be said here.

@Mali, you are free to remain focused on this one special girl, and continue to hover around her for N months, telling yourself how you are "working on" her, and that she is "warming up" to you. It's a low odds strategy, but it does from time to time work for guys.

Assuming it doesn't work (and about 11 out of 12 times it won't), I suggest you read these two articles to understand why:



Chase
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
Here is an interesting video: https://soulmatetwinflame.com/index.php/2022/07/18/why-do-men-like-conservative-women/

Watch it.

This is for more conservative readers who are looking for LTR. So if you are not looking for LTR you are just wasting your time

- Women love sex, we all know that
- Women are women, but can be divided into two groups: liberal and conservative. Liberal women have different values than conservative women
- Sex is not the only thing conservative women value. They also value loyalty, LTR, family life etc., other conservative values
- If you have liberal values and seduce conservative women, you likely won’t be successful in LTR. Conservative women have different goals in life than you (lover who moves from one woman to another)
- If you have liberal values (like banging tens of women) you might have great chemistry with conservative woman, but you are not compatible for LTR. Nice example is above with TomInHo with 3 year relationship when she wanted family but he didn’t. They had great chemistry but no compatibility, there is no LTR values from both sides. Sooner or later they had to split
- If you are looking for LTR with conservative woman, you likely have to have the same goals and conservative values like she does. That means you should not present as a guy who bangs women wherever he goes. Again, this is assuming that you are looking for solid, stable LTR based on loyalty with conservative woman. I would add here that very smart women know that, they recognize fast moving lover vs conservative guy very fast, and they make their decisions accordingly. In my experience on the spot
- If you are compatible with traditional woman but have low chemistry, your LTR likely won’t work either, especially not in liberal society. You are a boring guy, LTR won’t work. You have to have both, compatibility and chemistry
- You as a fast moving lover are automatically projecting certain liberal values by your behavior. By your overall behavior you are attracting more liberal women who are willing to sleep not only with you but with other guys as well. What I’m saying is, be careful what you wish for. If you are looking for LTR with conservative woman, your lovers frame is not the best approach. You are shooting yourself in the foot, she senses that you may have great chemistry but you are not compatible for LTR. The smarter she is and the more conservative she is, the sooner she realizes. That’s assuming that you are a genuine guy who doesn’t manipulate women to get what he wants
 

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
1,083
Here is an interesting video: https://soulmatetwinflame.com/index.php/2022/07/18/why-do-men-like-conservative-women/

Watch it.

This is for more conservative readers who are looking for LTR. So if you are not looking for LTR you are just wasting your time

- Women love sex, we all know that
- Women are women, but can be divided into two groups: liberal and conservative. Liberal women have different values than conservative women
- Sex is not the only thing conservative women value. They also value loyalty, LTR, family life etc., other conservative values
- If you have liberal values and seduce conservative women, you likely won’t be successful in LTR. Conservative women have different goals in life than you (lover who moves from one woman to another)
- If you have liberal values (like banging tens of women) you might have great chemistry with conservative woman, but you are not compatible for LTR. Nice example is above with TomInHo with 3 year relationship when she wanted family but he didn’t. They had great chemistry but no compatibility, there is no LTR values from both sides. Sooner or later they had to split
- If you are looking for LTR with conservative woman, you likely have to have the same goals and conservative values like she does. That means you should not present as a guy who bangs women wherever he goes. Again, this is assuming that you are looking for solid, stable LTR based on loyalty with conservative woman. I would add here that very smart women know that, they recognize fast moving lover vs conservative guy very fast, and they make their decisions accordingly. In my experience on the spot
- If you are compatible with traditional woman but have low chemistry, your LTR likely won’t work either, especially not in liberal society. You are a boring guy, LTR won’t work. You have to have both, compatibility and chemistry
- You as a fast moving lover are automatically projecting certain liberal values by your behavior. By your overall behavior you are attracting more liberal women who are willing to sleep not only with you but with other guys as well. What I’m saying is, be careful what you wish for. If you are looking for LTR with conservative woman, your lovers frame is not the best approach. You are shooting yourself in the foot, she senses that you may have great chemistry but you are not compatible for LTR. The smarter she is and the more conservative she is, the sooner she realizes. That’s assuming that you are a genuine guy who doesn’t manipulate women to get what he wants

...and if you have great game and know how to run relationships then none of that matters.
 

Mali

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 11, 2022
Messages
52
Somebody posted this, if I’m not mistaken it was Skills: https://www.theskillsmethod.com/the-2-types-of-men-when-it-comes-to-seduction/

This is also incorrect and outdated, it’s only partially true. It somehow presumes that provider is a guy who doesn’t like sex or is bad, asexual. Don’t believe that, there are guys who are bad but there are also great guys in relationships who provide great sex. Think about it: classical provider may wait little bit, couple weeks or months, but then he gets laid multiple times a week for months or years. This provider has more sexual encounters with one woman in one year than lover does all together with bunch of women, and virtually without any effort (other than initial waiting). Read it one more time, good provider has an access to sex easily 365 times a year without any effort. So much sex he is tired of it. Top lover can’t beat that. The woman develops way deeper connection with provider over time than she can ever have with lover.

Madonna/whore is in my opinion becoming ridiculous concept, it’s just a black and white thinking, reality is different. Of course women love sex, but they can‘t sleep with everybody either. They can’t be easy with guys they like because that decreases their value. This concept was maybe true some 20 years ago when there wasn‘t much information about relationships and dating available. It somehow assumes that woman is either pure virgin Madonna or cheap whore. Madonnas with low count are of course better fitted for relationship, I don’t know any guy who would want LTR or marry a whore. Nobody wants cheap woman for LTR who sleeps with a guy the first day either. Just think about it, do you want LTR with woman who sleeps with you right away? I would be very hesitant. What makes you think she didn’t sleep with dozens of other guys already? What makes you think she won’t be cheating on you behind you back If she is so easy?

Hence traditional women who don’t sleep around have high value, they are not pure Madonnas but they don’t necessary sleep around with bunch of guys either. They are simply using sex as leverage, as negotiation to get what they want. If you were woman you’d be doing exactly the same. And if you as a provider can also negotiate well, you have access to sex 365 days a year.
 
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Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
1,539
Somebody posted this, if I’m not mistaken it was Skills: https://www.theskillsmethod.com/the-2-types-of-men-when-it-comes-to-seduction/

This is also incorrect and outdated, it’s only partially true. It somehow presumes that provider is a guy who doesn’t like sex or is bad, asexual. Don’t believe that, there are guys who are bad but there are also great guys in relationships who provide great sex. Think about it: classical provider may wait little bit, couple weeks or months, but then he gets laid multiple times a week for months or years. This provider has more sexual encounters with one woman in one year than lover does all together with bunch of women, and virtually without any effort (other than initial waiting). Read it one more time, good provider has an access to sex easily 365 times a year without any effort. Top lover can’t beat that. The woman develops way deeper connection with provider over time than she can ever have with lover.

Madonna/whore is in my opinion becoming ridiculous concept, it’s just a black and white thinking, reality is different. Of course women love sex, but they can‘t sleep with everybody either. They can’t be easy with guys they like because that decreases their value. This concept was maybe true some 20 years ago when there wasn‘t much information about relationships and dating available. It somehow assumes that woman is either pure virgin Madonna or cheap whore. Madonnas with low count are of course better fitted for relationship, I don’t know any guy who would want LTR or marry a whore. Nobody wants cheap woman for LTR who sleeps with a guy the first day either. Just think about it, do you want LTR with woman who sleeps with you right away? I would be very hesitant. What makes you think she didn’t sleep with dozens of other guys already? What makes you think she won’t be cheating on you behind you back If she is so easy?

Hence traditional women who don’t sleep around have high value, they are not pure Madonnas but they don’t necessary sleep around with bunch of guys either. They are simply using sex as leverage, as negotiation to get what they want. If you were woman you’d be doing exactly the same. And if you as a provider can also negotiate well, you have access to sex 365 days a year.

Are you here to learn something about being effective or preach the virtues of waiting in line like any ordinary customer? You're the one who came originally with the problem of failing to get what you want, please stop ignoring the advice you get and then telling people what they should think, it's pretty rude to waste everyone's time like that.
 
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