LR 23 y/o Ukrainian girl from book club

[DoWhatWorks]

I'm writing this on very little sleep but sharing while fresh in my mind, she left earlier today.

Summary

1. Met her at a book club event, months back. Had chit-chat and she asked for my Instagram.
2. Msged after & tried to meet up with her but she was evasive so I just liked the msg. Chill & non-bitter but not chasing.
3. She's been liking my stories, commenting etc for a while so DMd her again
4. She came through for a date
5. Date was: garden centre [5 minutes] --> riverside pub [1 hour] --> park [40 minutes]> my place [stayed the night]
6. Faced some LMR when naked, stayed chill, invited her to stay over, she cancels her dance class the next day
7. Lay in the evening and again in the morning
8. Have breakfast in the morning and walk her to her train

Couple things I (re)learnt

• Just because a girl isn't ready there and then, doesn't mean she won't be later
• Feelings feelings feelings feelings are everything. I'm consistently making "us" vibes by being warm, comforting yet challenging
  • Basically make 90% of my conversations "chick crack": love languages, mbti, star signs, fun & funny dating experiences & whatever she's into that I can be bothered to listen to. I then reward with physical touch when she does or says something I like...
• The frame of: "if we have sex, nothing changes" think this is what tipped this girl over but would have saved hours setting this frame earlier... The final "LMR type" I get is just general anxiousness of a girl sleeping with you too soon so it seems like light future framing and nothing changes is the answer, so will incorporate that earlier in my dates and see how that impacts things

• This vindicates my theory that I could get girls from these events but daygame cold approach has had way faster results hence me doing less of these. To the point where going to events just for girls is silly and if I do go to an event, it's one I genuinelly like with no other variable being relevant.

Unfortunately this girl won't make the cut, not excited by her.

Sadly she seems quite into me so may go on 1-2 platonic meet ups and wind things down gracefully to be nice about it...

Also noticing these less experienced girls aren't as fun sexually at first (shock horror) very tight, easily in pain, not as assertive or dirty talk right away, shy with head & needs a lot of patience. Going to lean into how quickly I can coach them...

Flip side they're very sweet & emotionally available...Someone in the middle would be nice but really is no silver bullets lol

Slowly but surely I'm getting there...

Onwards & Upwards x

 

[Skills]

I'm writing this on very little sleep but sharing while fresh in my mind, she left earlier today.

Summary

1. Met her at a book club event, months back. Had chit-chat and she asked for my Instagram.
2. Msged after & tried to meet up with her but she was evasive so I just liked the msg. Chill & non-bitter but not chasing.
3. She's been liking my stories, commenting etc for a while so DMd her again
4. She came through for a date
5. Date was: garden centre [5 minutes] --> riverside pub [1 hour] --> park [40 minutes]> my place [stayed the night]
6. Faced some LMR when naked, stayed chill, invited her to stay over, she cancels her dance class the next day
7. Lay in the evening and again in the morning
8. Have breakfast in the morning and walk her to her train

Couple things I (re)learnt

• Just because a girl isn't ready there and then, doesn't mean she won't be later
• Feelings feelings feelings feelings are everything. I'm consistently making "us" vibes by being warm, comforting yet challenging
  • Basically make 90% of my conversations "chick crack": love languages, mbti, star signs, fun & funny dating experiences & whatever she's into that I can be bothered to listen to. I then reward with physical touch when she does or says something I like...
• The frame of: "if we have sex, nothing changes" think this is what tipped this girl over but would have saved hours setting this frame earlier... The final "LMR type" I get is just general anxiousness of a girl sleeping with you too soon so it seems like light future framing and nothing changes is the answer, so will incorporate that earlier in my dates and see how that impacts things

Unfortunately this girl won't make the cut, not excited by her.

Sadly she seems quite into me so may go on 1-2 platonic meet ups and wind things down gracefully to be nice about it...

Also noticing these less experienced girls aren't as fun sexually at first (shock horror) very tight, easily in pain, not as assertive or dirty talk right away, shy with head & needs a lot of patience. Going to lean into how quickly I can coach them...

Flip side they're very sweet & emotionally available...Someone in the middle would be nice but really is no silver bullets lol

Slowly but surely I'm getting there...

Onwards & Upwards x

i would not cut and have sex another couple of times, to see if she opens up...

 

[Atlas IV]

Nice LR man! It's cool to see that the social circle theory paid off. But interesting that you came to the conclusion that daygame is still the more efficient pipeline. It seems like we all circle back to cold approach in the end lol

• Feelings feelings feelings feelings are everything. I'm consistently making "us" vibes by being warm, comforting yet challenging
  • Basically make 90% of my conversations "chick crack": love languages, mbti, star signs, fun & funny dating experiences & whatever she's into that I can be bothered to listen to.

I fully resonate with this

• • I then reward with physical touch when she does or says something I like...

Operant conditioning is at the core of my game these days, especially with younger girls. Sometimes I wonder if they will "figure out" what I'm doing by explicitly rewarding good behaviour and freezing out bad behavior (much like training a pet), but no girls have said anything yet. I guess being the subject precludes them being observant of it.

• The frame of: "if we have sex, nothing changes" think this is what tipped this girl over but would have saved hours setting this frame earlier... The final "LMR type" I get is just general anxiousness of a girl sleeping with you too soon so it seems like light future framing and nothing changes is the answer, so will incorporate that earlier in my dates and see how that impacts things

Great frame. I run into this kind of LMR often too - the girl is afraid of a pump and dump.

How do you word it specifically?

For me, it's something like: "are you worried that if we sleep together, that we'll never see each other again tomorrow? Now way! I hate one night stands. If something's beautiful, why shouldn't it keep going?" etc etc

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Thanks man! @Atlas IV

Yeah definitely went full circle to cold approach lol. Deep down think I was just avoiding the work...

but no girls have said anything yet.

Not something I'd thought about but I don't know any guy who's ran into this... It might be because it's subtle, very easy to play dumb and let's face it, girls are normally on the front foot of doing it to guys (subconciously) so aren't expecting it

Great frame. I run into this kind of LMR often too - the girl is afraid of a pump and dump.

How do you word it specifically?

Also something I hadn't considered. I thought it was just a girl trying to stay in control but the root may be fear of pump and dump. I need to give it more thought because the better I understand the why, the better the frame & reframe I make.

I'm still refining how I approach it to be honest. My personal preference is to not be so "in your face" with frames because I find the subtle, under the radar frames are way more powerful.

I'd probably approach it in abstract like:

Spoiler: Freestyled Frame

most people spend their whole lives doing the same thing again, again and again. Scared of something new but the unknown is the exciting part. If bliss was guaranteed it wouldn't feel so good when you find it you know? If I try a new restaurant and love it, I don't go there once, then ditch it (who the fuck would do that lol), I'm going there again and again. I'm trying every thing on the menu and understanding every nook and cranny. It goes from new and exciting to my cosy regular and I enjoy that whole process of it. Blocking our blessings to have that experience because of fear never made sense to me... What do you think?

If you want to be a bit more literal I find call backs ease their mind too. E.g. nothing changes, we vibe, we try that Italian gelato we've both got on our list some weekend and the fun continues x

 

[James Cruse]

Also something I hadn't considered. I thought it was just a girl trying to stay in control but the root may be fear of pump and dump. I need to give it more thought because the better I understand the why, the better the frame & reframe I make.

I'm still refining how I approach it to be honest. My personal preference is to not be so "in your face" with frames because I find the subtle, under the radar frames are way more powerful.

I'd probably approach it in abstract like:

I think the whole frame of the whole seduction is usually off when you're getting hard LMR over a potential "pump & dump".

Usually and ideally, the pump and dump shouldn't be a consideration for her at that point - because she's chasing you and hoping she'll perform well for you, or try to. She's worried she won't even be able to have sex with you at all or ever see you again - and she has to chase you to make that happen (now and in future). She should be feeling glad she EARNED sex and seduced you into it.

What you wrote, again, sounds like you're a salesman objection handling a woman in a reactive way - rather than pro-actively getting ahead of any of her silly frames.

The frames you're setting should be communicating that indirectly in multiple ways.

Still almost no dialogue of your actual seductions here either, which really makes it hard to get more specific on what you did well (and not well).