anyone know what is going on in the pickup industry

[naturalmikey]

rsdnation is down. rsd has deleted all pickup content. julien and max are no longer instructors. todd v has toned down his content a lot. most puas have taken their infields down. many british puas channels got nuked. a british daygamer was sentenced to two years in prison for cold approach pickup. there is clearly something going on behind the scenes. anyone know what exactly is happening? i'm guessing it has somethign to do with the election season and a liberal agenda but not sure what.

 

[Sub-Zero]

They don’t want men to be men anymore, everything Is feminized. I think Chase said something about pick up being a very hard business to run long-term as well. Also the guys you mentioned are more on the extreme sides of pick up, with how things are pick up and red pill channels get no love at all.

 

[Space]

-naturalmikey

To answer your question, anyone know what is going on in the pickup industry? Yes, I know everything and it seems to me it has to be my job again to inform the community. Shit. OK, let's do it.

Before anything, start here.

Alex Social's public service announcement on YouTube.

julien and max are no longer instructors.

As I said, in your topic, Julian got married. Max just got back from an Ayahuasca trip and made a long-winded video about his experience I was recommended to watch, but boy, too many interesting videos and too little time. (At least those videos are a lot easier to consume, I can let them run in the background, than reading those dry, technical, long-winded CG articles written with tiny fonts on mobile or on a laptop.)

many british puas channels got nuked.

As far as I understood the channel featured in the BBC documentary was a more or less OK channel but the guys made the mistake of posting bedroom infields. Lesson learned: don't post bedroom infields.

a british daygamer was sentenced to two years in prison for cold approach pickup.

I've addressed this here. Alex politely hinted about the issue on his above YouTube video.

Lessons learned: the UK is clown world capital. What did you really expect from the country where you can go to jail for a Tweet?

The industry needs to reinvent itself in a way. Which is good. The US is a much better country than the UK regarding legislation, smart guys will find the limits of what's allowed on YouTube and what isn't. Some interesting issues are addressed here as well.

there is clearly something going on behind the scenes.

No, I don't see any big conspiracy behind it. Just what I said above. The UK is clown world capital and the industry needs to renew itself. Smart people are already trying to find out how.

 

[naturalmikey]

Yeah Julien is married but he doesn’t coach pickup and hasn’t for years. Ev mazd and sarah are also gone and radiation is shut down. Seems a little much.

 

[Space]

Yeah Julien is married but he doesn’t coach pickup and hasn’t for years. Ev mazd and sarah are also gone and radiation is shut down. Seems a little much.

I dunno these people. Chase wrote a post saying most people outgrow pickup. Not everybody, I argued in my reply, David Wygant and Brent Smith are counterexamples as older players who are rather growing into it than outgrowing it. But they are more the exception than the norm.

Anyways, there is a constant supply of younger, talented guys new to the industry on YouTube if that's what you are after. And they are getting better and better, that's what YouTuber Karisma King aka. Girls Chase writer Denton Fisher argued in his video series I linked to in the linked thread. I just see he made the series private. His channel hasn't been deleted at least.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Why...

Because the public sucks? - George Carlin

I posted a topic: who wants help in business. No one responded yet. I mean, why waste time on girls who don't like you, i mean people who don't like the industry that much per se.

And Tyler just posted a content with Julian in it.

Zac

 

[Space]

I think Chase said something about pick up being a very hard business to run long-term as well.

Indeed. In May he said:

Mainly because of how hard it is advertising dating advice...

Advertising? Visitors ideally should come from organic sources. It's not like 10 years before. Whatever.

Chase in April, just one month before:

And then when it was time to pay for coaching you shifted over into a bunch of odd conjectures about how Girls Chase must be struggling for money (we're definitely not) due to us only having 10 people on the team (in fact it's somewhere north of 30 right now...

Now these two statements are a little bit at odds to me. A little bit.

This is how you make 6 figures with pickup advice and coaching:

Here is this very young coach, let's say 10 years junior to you, Tim Ray, mentally he wants to quit coaching pickup and wants his income to come from other sources, but he still makes almost 6 figures with it. Like 95k.

How To Make More Money and Get More Girls Explained: Tim's Income REVEALED IN DETAIL

 

[Chase]

@naturalmikey (and everyone else)-

Pickup as a space has been on the decline for years now. Mid-2014 there was a major slump that set in that has just gotten worse over the years.

It is a combination of there no longer being any mainstream ambassadors like there were when Neil Strauss was doing all his PR-building and promoting The Game so heavily, plus the total ruination of the image of pickup in popular thought due to weird guys trying it + scammy-seeming marketing tactics + media portrayals, mixed in with a zeitgeist in which more and more men would rather be angry at women rather than try to sleep with them. That's the sort of overview.

There was just a big YouTube purge a couple weeks ago after the conviction and imprisonment of that Middle Eastern guy who got too aggressive in his approaches in Scotland. A bunch of YouTube channels got shut down, and many YouTube videos got axed, mainly the channels and videos that had hidden camera in-fields. (hidden camera in-field footage is illegal in many areas, so this was probably a mandatory move by YouTube legally, regardless of the political climate)

There's a general sense among many pickup business owners that the mood is souring a lot on seduction, and that it's going to get more and more restricted and harder and harder to reach an audience over time.

Then add to that the fact that most pickup business owners are guys in their 30s and 40s who have either made enough money to cash out, or switched over to some other form of entrepreneurship, and they all either have families now and don't want to be associated with the space any longer (wanting to move past the period of their lives and be more socially respectable) or they at least have long-term girlfriends who pressure them to not be so involved with that industry anymore, and you get a bunch of businesses closing up shop.

In RSD's case in particular, Tyler has been trying to move RSD away from pickup and over into social training, charisma, etc. He seems to think that's a safer direction to go, and that there won't be any oxygen at all for marketing seduction in the future, especially on the big channels like YouTube and Facebook.

So, that's kind of the overview.

One way to think of it is it's returning more to where it was pre-The Game.

Before Strauss' book, there were a few big seduction companies (Double Your Dating being the industry titan), but it was overall pretty sparse.

There was one primary forum everybody was on (moderate Alt-Seduction.Fast -- mASF [Fast Seduction]), from Mystery to Tyler to Ross Jeffries and all the old school cats. I was on there, Alek and Tony and Cody were, everybody was.

It was a much smaller, more intimate, and pretty underground niche.

I don't think it's a bad thing if it's going back to that. You get a smaller community, but there were still plenty of brilliant guys in those days.

And you had a whole sense of "this is a small community, most people don't know about this and would never accept it, and when you stumble on it, it's like finding a treasure trove of hidden knowledge and a handful of skilled, like-minded individuals."

So, I do not think it's the end of the world.

Chase

 

[Space]

@Chase

Somehow I've missed your post from last Friday.

Pickup as a space has been on the decline for years now.

Okay I got used to the fact that we disagree on many things (less so much on seduction, more so much on life and everything else), but you speak in general terms, pickup has been in decline for a while (which I dont give a f about). Maybe my Steve Jobs-like reality distortion field is too much for this kind of generalization. I'm like what? I've just referred to an individual, a younger individual who is doing pretty well as a small shop post 2014, post-apocalypse so ta say, and more importantly his content is very relatable to me.

It may be a fact that most guys who are good at seduction are less so good at business. And I don't see it as a problem. If you were to learn seduction from someone you'd rather learn it from the guy who is good at seduction not at promoting himself than from the guy who is a great marketer buy his game is shitty, right? So there is a little bit of conflict of interest here: the better guys might be the one you've never heard of. They don't have time or the talent to market themselves professionally while the best marketers may be just mediocre seducers. But it's fine at least with me. I can sort it out.

Then add to that the fact that most pickup business owners are guys in their 30s and 40s who have either made enough money to cash out, or switched over to some other form of entrepreneurship, and they all either have families now and don't want to be associated with the space any longer (wanting to move past the period of their lives and be more socially respectable) or they at least have long-term girlfriends who pressure them to not be so involved with that industry anymore, and you get a bunch of businesses closing up shop.

Confirmation bias. Just because this is your age group as well and you are more familiar with guys of this age of course doesn't mean there is no supply of fresh faces. Hint: they are on YouTube and their channels haven't been taken down. Not all of their channels. Heck, it was Girls Chase writer Denton who said the seduction talent is getting better and better with every year. As I've said in the previous section these guys may be underground, lesser known figures. What Denton said is there's still a lot to discover in seduction. There's a lot left to discover.

It was a much smaller, more intimate, and pretty underground niche.

I don't think it's a bad thing if it's going back to that.

Finally, we agree on something.

 

[Carousel]

A major force here is that guys realized that getting good at pickup takes effort, and more importantly, lots of ego-hits.

Cop-outs are abundant:

Online game (An OK tool. It feels far safer than approaching, but builds far less skill).
Prostitution and porn (no comment)
Manosphere-trolling and pseudo-sociology (get mad on the internetz instead of actually getting laid).
MGTOW (not a clearly defined term, here defined as "dropping out").
Going to SE Asia (provider-game or prostitution).
Going to Eastern Europe (and come back and whine about girls liking the macho man archetype or deal with golddiggers).

Also a lot of millennials, especially men, don't have sex at all.

Coming Soon

www.hvy.com

Being a pick-up instructor is also not a particularly profitable job. The guru-level guy with 130 in IQ and top 1% social skills can earn much more in professions carrying much less stigma.

 

[Space]

Going to SE Asia (provider-game or prostitution).
Going to Eastern Europe (and come back and whine about girls liking the macho man archetype or deal with golddiggers).

OK. Going to Southeast Asia, to Eastern Europ from when? And coming back where? I'm sorry if I have to be so pedantic but if someone has to be, let it be. The mother site to which this forum is related to, Girls Chase, has readers from about 90 countries. Let's assume the forum, too.

A relevant topic from the times before you appeared. russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive?

Welcome new faces who came in time for the forum's re-birth!

 

[Carousel]

OK. Going to Southeast Asia, to Eastern Europ from when? And coming back where? I'm sorry if I have to be so pedantic but if someone has to be, let it be. The mother site to which this forum is related to, Girls Chase, has readers from about 90 countries. Let's assume the forum, too.

A relevant topic from the times before you appeared. russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive?

Welcome new faces who came in time for the forum's re-birth!

From the West, and back to the West.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Reading the story about the Middle Eastern dude I am kind of alarmed, what is the fine line with daygame if dude is getting sent to jail for that? I mean calling girls cute?!? Was the issue when he touched them or what?

 

[Cody Lyans]

For me... I diverted from loud sounding pickup before I even joined 15 years ago. We were the second Gen just after the game came out. A lot of people with me did Natural styles of game without canned materials.
After the second gen took over narratives we did not commercialize outside of girls chase. This led to the bottleneck of new info coming solely from more niche locations while generally people were crying out for something.
Weird stuff came out of puahate and other places, in els popped up. And newer guys popularizing took a third gen approach of "this is known, and this is what it is, let's see how I do"

I have thought on this for ten years trying to figure out how to properly teach sed.
It's tricky cuz people have many strong opinions so you can not just bulldoze a marketing campaign or at least it feels too seedy. It will reboot dw

 

[Jesse]

Cop-outs are abundant:
Online game (An OK tool. It feels far safer than approaching, but builds far less skill).
Prostitution and porn (no comment)
Manosphere-trolling and pseudo-sociology (get mad on the internetz instead of actually getting laid).
MGTOW (not a clearly defined term, here defined as "dropping out").
Going to SE Asia (provider-game or prostitution).
Going to Eastern Europe (and come back and whine about girls liking the macho man archetype or deal with golddiggers).

Also a lot of millennials, especially men, don't have sex at all.
.

Spot-on analysis here Carousel.

If you time-warped yourself back to say the year 2005, there were FAR FEWER "alternatives" to just grinding it out and actually getting better with actual women. Now the marketplace offers all kinds of "outs" to avoid and put off the work and self-development involved.

 

[Space]

For me... I diverted from loud sounding pickup before I even joined 15 years ago. We were the second Gen just after the game came out. A lot of people with me did Natural styles of game without canned materials.
After the second gen took over narratives we did not commercialize outside of girls chase. This led to the bottleneck of new info coming solely from more niche locations while generally people were crying out for something.
Weird stuff came out of puahate and other places, in els popped up. And newer guys popularizing took a third gen approach of "this is known, and this is what it is, let's see how I do"

A very brief explainer of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens would be helpful for the clueless like me. Just a few sentences but with examples from each school. For example is the 1st gen only Mystery Method and the like or anyone from The Game including what was then naturals? About what might be 3rd gen I have a vague idea but my idea may be completely different to yours. How you described 2nd gen however is a full blank space to me.

 

[Space]

A major force here is that guys realized that getting good at pickup takes effort, and more importantly, lots of ego-hits.

Cop-outs are abundant...

Going to SE Asia (provider-game or prostitution).
Going to Eastern Europe (and come back and whine about girls liking the macho man archetype or deal with golddiggers).

OK. Going to Southeast Asia, to Eastern Europe from when? And coming back where? I'm sorry if I have to be so pedantic but if someone has to be, let it be. The mother site to which this forum is related to, Girls Chase, has readers from about 90 countries. Let's assume the forum, too.

A relevant topic from the times before you appeared. russian asks: why 90% of the girls in western PUA videos are so unattractive?

From the West, and back to the West.

Okay. And Chase's "right hand" @Hector Papi Castillo (American) does just that in Romania. And I see nothing wrong with it. I wish him to have a good time and have a great experience and that's all.

Maybe I could use an explainer here as well as I'm seemingly too basic to understand your thinking.

Going to SE Asia (provider-game or prostitution).
Going to Eastern Europe (and come back and whine about girls liking the macho man archetype or deal with golddiggers).

Correction. I don't necessarily think going to places necessarily equates provider-game or prostitution. I'm more in line with what Roosh wrote back than when he called himself rather a love tourist than a sex tourist. I also didn't quite understood the full context of what you wrote in brackets after Eastern Europe. Oh, and you forgot to add Latin-American to the mix, too.

By the West do you mean the United States in particular? I ask because in my experience Europeans don't really talk the way you do. And Europe is considered to be part of the West.

"Not in my name"

 

[Teevster]

Okay. And Chase's "right hand" @Hector Papi Castillo (American) does just that in Romania. And I see nothing wrong with it. I wish him to have a good time and have a great experience and that's all.

But he does not whine about it, pulls hot ass and does not rely on money in order to pu golddigger.

 

[Carousel]

Okay. And Chase's "right hand" @Hector Papi Castillo (American) does just that in Romania. And I see nothing wrong with it. I wish him to have a good time and have a great experience and that's all.

Maybe I could use an explainer here as well as I'm seemingly too basic to understand your thinking.

Context is the post was COP-OUTS from learning game (for Western European and American guys) and believeing that such places are pussy paradises where you get laid with no effort or skill. Of course, this don't apply to guys WITH GAME who go there, such as Hector. I have actually met up with him In Romania and also traveled about half the Eastern European countries with Alek myself.

Correction. I don't necessarily think going to places necessarily equates provider-game or prostitution. I'm more in line with what Roosh wrote back than when he called himself rather a love tourist than a sex tourist. I also didn't quite understood the full context of what you wrote in brackets after Eastern Europe. Oh, and you forgot to add Latin-American to the mix, too.

Again, context here was cop-outs.

By the West do you mean the United States in particular? I ask because in my experience Europeans don't really talk the way you do. And Europe is considered to be part of the West.

"Not in my name"

Huh? I am Norwegian.

 

[Space]

@Carousel

Gotcha!

Huh? I am Norwegian.

Halvor Jannike

Yeah, I remember your name your thinking was just...sounding too American to me.

Anyway. To the original topic, anyone know what is going on in the pickup industry? It's all fine by and large and I'm confident it comes out stronger and healthier from whatever transformation it is going through right now. Yeah, an internal health check is imminent, as Alex has said.

Alex Social's public service announcement on YouTube.

But I'm just this glass half full dude with the reality distortion field. Okay. We can move on.