BIGGEST sticking point for most guys my age

[Kaida]

I’m 17 years old and a virgin, and I’ve only ever kissed one girl (I really feel like I’m going to get my lucky break soon though… I can feel it). One thing that I feel is the biggest sticking point in my progress with girls in general for me and honestly most other guys my age is that I find it hard to set / pull girls into that “man to woman” frame. The frame that says “we’re flirting, and something is happening here.”

70% of the reason I find it difficult is because I simply just don’t know how to set the frame. The other 30% is that usually when I’m talking to girls it’s in a classroom or other public environment with other ppl inches away. I find it so hard to set a strong MTW frame with the girl I’m talking to while flirting subtly. I always worry about what other people are thinking of my conversations.


Questions:

How do I flirt and set that “Man to woman frame??

How do I set the frame subtly in a public environment?

Bonus:
How can I display attractiveness in a classroom setting?

 

[Teevster]

Most men your age? Yeah right.

Stop linking your sticking point to simething external (age) and tackle it with the advice found here.

Use sex talk to set the sexual frame and yoyr problem will be solve. I have compiled most of my posts on the subject. Some of those gambits were invented when I was 16.

The less fancy ones work for people yoyr age.

Ps: your age is not a problem.
Pss: high school game should only serve one purpose: get invited to homeparties where you meet girls from outside your school. The most popular guys only gets to bang 1 or 2 girls from their school over their high school years. The sooner toy get this idea out of your head the better it will be.

Best,
Ex-teenager pua

-Teevster

 

[trashKENNUT]

The most popular guys only gets to bang 1 or 2 girls from their school over their high school years.

I can 70% confirmed this was the scenario with the popular guys in my school.

I think it's more to them not realising their potential or power, yet. Reactions over Results and when you are young, Reactions is highly valued over results.

z@c+

 

[Fuck This]

I found at your age I was all "Sexual frame" with girls outside my school but not with girls in my classes since I had to see them every day. I didn't want to "shit where I eat" so to speak.
Just like Teev said House parties or other activities with women from OTHER schools will give you the freedom to be more sexual without worrying about social repercussions. Got a sport league with people from other schools? clubs? Cousins? use those connections to meet other women you can not regret blowing out or P&Ding.

One of my most memorable experiences was meeting a girl from a different High school while doing a community event with my high school Wildlife outreach group. I still laugh when I think of her asking to "Pet my Iguana" (yes, it really DID happen that way.) The next weekend we steamed up the windows of her car on the top floor of the parking garage.

Summer camps were great for meeting novel women. I did traditional summer camps and sports camps at Universities. While we had football camps there were Volleyball camps, Cheer camps, and softball camps going on at the same time....All female....

Dances that attract a wide swath of people, particularly small communities. Music and alcohol set a good tone, even if you aren't drinking. I lost my virginity at your age meeting another 17 yo in the Beer garden that we both got 'snuck into" The town had a population of 600 people but had 5k or more for the event and associated dance,,,

Festivals. I volunteered at a festival which gave me some authority and I met a lot of women. some were attendees others were volunteers too. One lady practically handed me a date on a silver platter as she suggested the two of us , "take a break and go see the music act".

Long story short, Branch out BEYOND your own school.

 

[ulrich]

Biggest sticking point at your age is believing that you must have it figured out at your age.

At 17 nobody is a master, almost no one has had more than 10 lays, not a single one has any chance of outclassing a experienced seducer.

Sexual market value for 99.99% of 17 year old men is low.

Learn a lot and start enjoying the journey for it is long and full of adventures.

 

[Kaida]

I appreciate the advice everyone. Everyone seems to be saying the same thing: that in-school chances are low and that I should branch out to other schools. Thanks guys I’ll put it to work.

@ulrich I think you’re right and I was expecting too much of myself. I need to stop actually believing what the dudes around me are saying about their lay numbers lol

 

[POB]

Go Stifler's mom route and get a hot divorced 40y oldish cougar to teach you the kinks.
Ask her to show you how to please a woman.
Plenty of them out there hunting for a young fuckboy like you.

Women your age will suck because:
1) they prefer older men (natural maturity disparity between genders)
2) you are not experienced yet.
Also most young women need to be taught how to please a man, and you don't know hot to do that yet.

If virginity becomes a psychological problem, fuck a pro and get over it.

 

[Will_V]

I’m 17 years old and a virgin, and I’ve only ever kissed one girl (I really feel like I’m going to get my lucky break soon though… I can feel it). One thing that I feel is the biggest sticking point in my progress with girls in general for me and honestly most other guys my age is that I find it hard to set / pull girls into that “man to woman” frame. The frame that says “we’re flirting, and something is happening here.”

70% of the reason I find it difficult is because I simply just don’t know how to set the frame. The other 30% is that usually when I’m talking to girls it’s in a classroom or other public environment with other ppl inches away. I find it so hard to set a strong MTW frame with the girl I’m talking to while flirting subtly. I always worry about what other people are thinking of my conversations.


Questions:

How do I flirt and set that “Man to woman frame??

How do I set the frame subtly in a public environment?

Bonus:
How can I display attractiveness in a classroom setting?

For younger guys especially, I think it's very important to learn how to tease girls. Whenever I see a kid hanging around with a bunch of hot 16 year olds, he's constantly teasing them. Doesn't have to be sexual at first, just learn how to do some basic pushing and pulling.

The other advice I would give you is: invest deeply into some activity and dominate in it. Whether it's a sport, or being a musician, or whatever, now's the time to start defining yourself - it can be changed later, but it has to start now. Two good things happen: 1) girls (and other people in general) who are into whatever it is you're doing start to notice and mingle around you and 2) you develop a sense of positive 'aggression' toward life and self-confidence that effortlessly translates over into the social world. That is the one thing I would focus on more than any other if I were to go back to my teenage years.

Now is the time when you have loads of energy and time, so invest it relentlessly in bettering every skill you think could be valuable to the lifestyle you want to have.

 

[Skills]

I’m 17 years old and a virgin, and I’ve only ever kissed one girl (I really feel like I’m going to get my lucky break soon though… I can feel it). One thing that I feel is the biggest sticking point in my progress with girls in general for me and honestly most other guys my age is that I find it hard to set / pull girls into that “man to woman” frame. The frame that says “we’re flirting, and something is happening here.”

70% of the reason I find it difficult is because I simply just don’t know how to set the frame. The other 30% is that usually when I’m talking to girls it’s in a classroom or other public environment with other ppl inches away. I find it so hard to set a strong MTW frame with the girl I’m talking to while flirting subtly. I always worry about what other people are thinking of my conversations.


Questions:

How do I flirt and set that “Man to woman frame??

How do I set the frame subtly in a public environment?

Bonus:
How can I display attractiveness in a classroom setting?

Yeah day game at this age is great.... also go to other highschools when end of school to pick up... skating arenas, malls, movies outside are great....bus stops, trains...

 

[Kaida]

@POB
That would be cool but how do I do that? The link you had just showed a picture

@Will_V

Great notes! I find that very true as well, all the guys I know good with girls are teasers and are actually funny with what they say. Thing is with me tho is that my teasing most of the time is either too uncreative or borderline insulting.

 

[Will_V]

@POB
That would be cool but how do I do that? The link you had just showed a picture

@Will_V

Great notes! I find that very true as well, all the guys I know good with girls are teasers and are actually funny with what they say. Thing is with me tho is that my teasing most of the time is either too uncreative or borderline insulting.

Do you enjoy it though? Teasing is like flirting, it's not something you calculate but something you are moved to do when you feel a certain way.

Remember girls are silly and cute. Does a labrador need to get everything right before he goes and smacks a kitten on the butt (not to say you should be smacking butts, but you know what I mean!). It's just what you are aroused to do.

If you are feeling uncreative, it's because you aren't in touch with that sensibility of girls being silly and cute, or out of touch with your self expression. Often when I'm walking around I see some beautiful long hair and I have a strong urge to grab it and pull it, to feel it between my fingers. Of course, I have self control, but I always smile to myself when I feel that way, because it's the natural urge to play with and tease girls that arouse me. It's that playful, teasing energy that is the natural bridge between the strong, dominant man and the weak, submissive woman, that enables them to share an experience that isn't false, which they can both enjoy while being their authentic selves.

All you have to do is get in touch with that and find a way to express it in a socially calibrated, completely offhand way (it's just your self expression, it's not about truth or judgement or outcome or anything more). For example, observe things about her personality or habitual behaviour, things she knows are true, and comment on them. Things like 'you're such a ..' 'I bet you ...' with a smile and eye contact. If it doesn't land, just laugh and apologize in a teasing, lighthearted way. If she can't get over it there's something wrong with her.

 

[DarkKnight]

Girls made it easy around those ages... a lot of times they did the approaching or opening with youthful enthousiasm or tentative curiosity. Alsp no, my fundamentals were not top tier, not by a longshot, I didnt bother with those things, but I did always carry that bad boy edge which probably helped.

Although I got to say, there was no facebook, instagram or tiktok back in the day. Probably a game changer also in expectation management of girls. Sometimes I meet girls who are that young and they are so much beyond my generation in what they know.

I would just spam fundamentals and join parties in the short run, learn advanced game in the long run.

Everything was much more simple back then.. at times I long for those days so I can re-do everything.

 

[POB]

@POB
That would be cool but how do I do that? The link you had just showed a picture

Damn, I forget younger dudes probably never seen American Pie

There's no easy answer here.
Unfortunately, in general, you are starting at a disadvantage when compared to mature guys.
You can try going to apps, setting your age a little bit higher (like 20-21) and filtering for older chicks on the hunt.
Or hanging out at cougar bars (every decent city has at least one or two of those).
But if you choose this route, remember: it's just a temporary stop to get better in bed, and learn from someone more mature than you.

Also keep in mind that this is not an excuse to not follow the other guys advice and keep improving, or to stop sarging chicks your age.
The whole point of seduction is to go after the chicks you want, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Fuck This]

Damn, I forget younger dudes probably never seen American Pie

I'm pretty sure Zach Wilson is not a member here

Lisa Wilson on Instagram: "AUGUST 8th - So I had a birthday🎂 😏 and I have the coolest friends in the world! 🌏 Thanks for celebrating with me ❤️ #celebrateeverydaylikeitsyourbirthday"

357 likes, 30 comments - wilsonohana on September 17, 2019: "AUGUST 8th - So I had a birthday🎂 😏 and I have the coolest friends in the world! 🌏 Thank..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Teevster]

I will give you field tested advice based on the time I was your age doing pick up (I was an upper intermediate PUA at your age) I will give you 3 options that you can choose, but ideally you should combine at least 2 of them, if not go for all three:

1) First option is to do daygame to practice opening and hook game, and date game. If logistics allows for it, he may end up with a woma with her own place. Girls will most likely be above his age - so he will hav to lie up his age a bit till he is 20. No problem.

2) Second option is to build a social circle - that is befriend as many people he can, spot the key connector, put these people in his debt (by inviting them to parties) and eventually snowball this way and get access to tons of home parties. All you need is one home party as sooner or later you will be invited to one, and once you are, invite key people (dudes and girls who are well-connected/host parties often). Then they will owe you, which means you are more likely to be invited to a home party later on. And rinse and repeat. Eventually you will have parties available to you weekly.

This is what I did in high school (I was active in the PU community from age 15).

The benefit with parties are:
- In venue logistics (you can fuck in the basement, garden, free bedroom, bathroom, attic, garden house, and even an iglo... which my friend build in the garden during the winter.
- New girls - easy to hook, you can go straight to sexual framing and seal the deal (which is why I recommend doing daygame next to it, just to get used to opening and hooking).
- Being at parties will grant you social value in your school - both directly since you may invite key people from your school to parties, or you may do high value things are the party, or because you become known as the guy who has access to parties. in high school (at the school itself) it is all about popularity - not you cute innocent flirting. Nothing brings more status than being the party-fixer. PERIOD. During my last high school year, I had so high status that I had my own corner with a coach and people had to ask for my permission to sit there. I controlled everything. I was on a different league than the most popular guy, who knew he couldn't match me, so he kept the relationship of "mutual respect" between. He was the alpha, was the Sigma. However, this was after being 3 years in pick up, and practicing this stuff seriously.

3) A third option is going for clubs (if they all 18 year old in clubs where you live) or get a fake ID (it is risky). I went for the latter. Hence, why I kind of stopped gradually caring about high school status since I didn't need it, I would just go to a club, do a cold approach and pull. Took a bit of time to get used to, but the idea of going to a club empty handed and just pull something always intrigued me.

So once I got access to clubs, I kind of care less about high school status, which was very liberating considering it is a lot of work. It also allowed me to concentrate more on school, which led to better grades. My motto became "shool is for grades" and "field is for pussy". i kind of kept this philosophy since then. I broke my rule a few years ago when I screwed girls from my class - but I can break rules, since I am a veteran in this field.


The advice you got from others here are indeed interesting, but keep in mind that few of the posters here have actually been reading and practicing pick up at 17 - and done so succesfull.

I was a successful PUA at 17 (was part of the masterminds forum at age 18).

i started out at 15 - 2007.

Best,
Alek

 

[Rakehell]

@Kaiderman

I’m not far from you as far as age goes. Looking back, during my stint in highschool when I hadn’t discovered pua material until near the very end, alot of people were not socially calibrated.

Despite this it is still very possible to lose your virginity (I did), to a girl in your school.

Alot of guy’s were not attractive, neither were the girl’s. Girl’s don’t really know what a socially savvy or attractive guy “looks like” yet if that makes sense. They don’t even have their own sex appeal.

So alot of the more subtle stuff will fly over their head, unless they’re unusually smart or experienced. That being said these girl’s can recognize status easily.

Like other’s have said most of the hooking up happens with guy’s outside of school with guy’s who don’t attend. The sex that does happen in the school is usually messy so girls can get apprehensive.

One of my female friends at that time told me in confidence that she’d slept with over 10 guys with only 1 actually going to the school. She was 16 at the time. Though she was an outlier. She did this going to different camps and activities that involved other kids.

With my school there were some suspensions due to leaked nudes/sex tapes, getting caught fucking in school, etc. So some will be apprehensive to the idea of fucking guy’s who attend.

Focus on being more mature. Its easy to fall into toxic behaviors that are environmentally based. If you’re surrounded by guy’s who display unattractive behaviors it’s kind of an anchor pulling you down that you’ll adopt to fit in.
Focus on making yourself more sociable/ less hyper and corny as most guy’s that age will be.

Try recognizing the signals of the girl’s that are crushing on you and pick one. Focus on being comfortable around the girls and more comfortable with your sexuality.

Some pragmatic things you can do are signing up for electives and clubs that are more female oriented. Cooking, drama, art, photography, fashion. Things like that. Make girl friends that you can be seen around the school with if possible.

After school stuff is key, and you can even have sex in the school. By way of isolating a girl after practice, clubs, etc.

For practicalities sake in your shoes i’d:

• Engage girl’s socially as a habit without trying to sexualize things with everyone.
• Stand out from other guy’s. You don’t have to posture or be like the boy’s who want you to believe they’re actually getting somewhere.
• Find ways to spend more time at school
• Identify girls who will inevitably have crushes on you.
• Pick one or two. Find a plausibly deniable way to get their number that isn’t supplicatory. Her sending you notes versus you sending her. Get it? Social media can be viable too, segwaying that into getting her number through dms.
• Get a part time job and let people know indirectly
• Eye contact is super key. 99.99% of guy’s literally cannot hold eye contact with girls at that age.
• Being able to touch them and stand close plays a big role as well.
• You can weave in sex talk with girls you’re interested in. At that time i’d do it by way of talking about dreams. Or attractive teachers since girls can be attracted to their teachers all the same.
• Frame yourself as being sexually aware. Someone who get’s the dilemma girls go through with having sexually active feelings but not being able to act on them because they’re surrounded by sexually immature little boys who leak their nudes, and tell their friends.
• Don’t kiss and tell or “claim” any one girl
• Be vocal in classes without coming across as a nerd. Don’t be afraid to show your smarts.
• Sign up for girl oriented electives.
• Focus on being more laid back versus class clown.
• Going after underclassman as a senior/junior is seen as low status but is possible and will be easier
• IGNORE any and all red pill advice. Alot of my younger cousins and even my little sibling eats it up and most of it will be toxic toward your goal. Focus on the advice you receive here

That all works to boost your status in the eyes of your peers.

Another effective strategy you can use with girl’s you’re angling to sleep with who don’t stick around the school for long, is dividing up your attention.

It sounds counterintuitive but with these girls once you get their number, don’t interact with them a whole lot in school unless you know you have the potential to isolate them there.

I’d text them and end up on the phone with them a few hour’s after school was finished, but only interacted with them in passing while physically at school.

This way you monetize your attention and it gives them incentive to see you afterward. You can skip out on days contacting them further monetizing your attention as well.

Look for windows where you can meet up, uber/lyft to their house and study or hang out.

Hope this helps

 

[Kaida]

@Will_V

This is a great articulation honestly - most wouldnt be able to make such an abstract feeling so clear. Looking back, some of the times I felt most comfortable teasing and leading girls is when I had that mindset strong. Its easy to have that frame with cute / more cheery girls tho.

The thing is, I find it difficult to keep that mindset with more dominant / less emotional girls. Its like every time I meet one, it cracks my frame slightly more and more everytime. Soon enough, I have to reset that mindset back into me through affirmations or visualization.


@Teevster

I appreciate the advice heavy man, especially since you were in the same position. Unfortunately, I cant go to parties that are late (which seem to be the only parties honestly) at the moment because I’m still with my parents and they’re strict.

I’m a senior in highschool so once I get into college I’ll be hitting up parties for sure, hopefully the game I need to use isn’t too different.

I will practice daygame as soon as I can get out and cold approach

@Rakehell

Thanks so much brother. Exactly what I love, lots of actionable points I can implement asap.

I’ve been working on eye contact a lot - I spend 5 minutes every day looking at myself in the mirror with relaxed eyebrows to get me used to it, and it’s worked wonders for my comfort. I still have to get in the habit of actually looking though, but when I do look, it’s fearless.

Focus on being more mature.

What exactly do you mean by mature? because mature can mean different things, so i wanna understand what u mean

Being able to touch them and stand close plays a big role as well.

Maybe its just me but when I’m talking to someone while sitting down or walking side by side, it’s sometimes awkward to hold eye contact or turn my head. feels like i’m investing too much. Am I trippin or is there a way to do this I havent learned?

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V

This is a great articulation honestly - most wouldnt be able to make such an abstract feeling so clear. Looking back, some of the times I felt most comfortable teasing and leading girls is when I had that mindset strong. Its easy to have that frame with cute / more cheery girls tho.

The thing is, I find it difficult to keep that mindset with more dominant / less emotional girls. Its like every time I meet one, it cracks my frame slightly more and more everytime. Soon enough, I have to reset that mindset back into me through affirmations or visualization.

You're overthinking it again. All you have to do is want to dominate the frame more than she does. It doesn't matter how logical or 'dominant' she is, she's looking for someone to take over, because she's a girl. Is it going to be you?

When you find yourself struggling with things like mindset, motivation, frame control, etc, it's almost always a question of not being clear to yourself on what you want. You should always fear not wanting the things you want more than not having them, because when someone wants something, all they need is training.

I've spent a long time around people with depression and all sorts of mental obstacles, trying to 'fix' them (and I have had plenty of roadblocks myself). And what I have learned is that there are two things that cannot be explained to a man: the first is why he should fuck a woman, and the second is why he should fight his enemies.

It's clear you want it, but beware that unless you start taking direct action to overcome obstacles, and accepting responsibility for everything that happens as a result of your innate desires, the paths that lead to nowhere will always be near at hand.

That goes for everything in life, not just seduction. We live in a world where the paths that lead to nowhere are numerous, and appear to be lined with friendly faces, and the ones that lead to all the things we want are desolate, difficult and narrow.

 

[Rakehell]

Maybe its just me but when I’m talking to someone while sitting down or walking side by side, it’s sometimes awkward to hold eye contact or turn my head. feels like i’m investing too much. Am I trippin or is there a way to do this I havent learned?

This has more to do with incidental touching and the physical closeness than the eye contact involved. It’s a good way to set that man to woman dynamic you asked about.

If you’re in her personal space comfortably, it is a much better dynamic than standing a foot away awkwardly when talking to her. For example when talking to her stand close enough where you could easily touch her or even kiss her without having to over extend yourself. At lunch sit next to her, or get her to sit next to you. But sit close enough so your arms can touch versus there being a gap between you.

If she sits across from you take up space in a way so that your legs can graze each other. If she intentionally creates space that’s a good indicator that she isn’t comfortable for that yet.

But if you remain comfortable she won’t feel like you’re doing something that is wrong most of the time because you aren’t projecting it nonverbally.

Don’t look for her approval on this just do it. If she reacts negatively brush it off and change the subject. Do it again later.

What exactly do you mean by mature? because mature can mean different things, so i wanna understand what u mean

Goes back to being a class clown and acting like most guy’s your age. I can’t really explain this in words but overall it’s about being more serious and less silly / goofy. Making dumb faces, taking something from a girl and running away, shouting. Stuff like that. Don’t be a comedian.

You can still be playful, but don’t OVER do it. Mostly serious sometimes playful.

Also once you’re comfortable with looking a girl in the eyes for long periods it’s actually normal and beneficial to give her breaks. Use common sense, like when walking or walking up steps it’d be impossible to maintain eye contact. It’s more about establishing yourself as a dominant person.

She needs to consciously know that you can look her in the eyes comfortably. Once that’s established you do not have to hold it all the time. But as a general rule she needs to be breaking the eyecontact more than you. It’s a tool used to build tension or to hold her attention after she’s recognized you can hold it.

 

[Kaida]

If you are feeling uncreative, it's because you aren't in touch with that sensibility of girls being silly and cute, or out of touch with your self expression.

After further consideration, I think the problem is that I’m out of touch with my self expression. This even leaks into my conversation sometimes, as I dont even know what to say sometimes. It’s like I dont know my own personal reactions.

How do I get more in touch with my creative self expression?