Can You Teach an Old Dog New Tricks?


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
I'm 39 and I have been away from PUA a while. Was in a two-year relationship and then experienced (another) spiraling depression that lasted the better part of a year before I got it under wraps knock on wood. I've never been a natural, but I have tricked one or two girls into thinking I am. Of course I've been in love a few times too. I'm strong on some fundamentals but extremely weak on others...and I don't possess a lot of real tactics or sense of overall strategy. As a separate category, my looks are above average, including, even at this age, a slim, athletic physique. People still think I'm in my early 20s lol. I live with my parents in a house outside Chicago and have no discretionary income...and all of my running mates are married or out of state or both.

Some things never change. I hit it off with "naturals,"of both sexes but realize they're hitting it off with everyone, and I'm only hitting it off with their type. I've done a fair amount of reading on Girls Chase and other places, even purchased one of the G.C. content bundles a few years back. (Younger guys: in my experience, you are young until you are 38. Then you have to trick yourself into thinking you are still a young man. That's exactly what I intend to do from this point forward lol.) I can honestly say that my efforts over time haven't moved the needle. I am inconsistent and slave to the tides of my own moods and, being honest, a low self-esteem.

My report is this. I recently realized I am an auditory learner through my efforts to learn a new professional skill-set almost exclusively through online videos. I am convinced that I don't retain anything unless I hear it talked about in addition to reading it. Well, this week I had the thought to search for a Girl's Chase podcast on my iPhone, and it exists! I've listened to three episodes so far and have osberved the following. 1- there are (once again) some extremely intelligent dudes working with Girls Chase; 2- the principles are principles for a reason, i.e., what resonates on paper, i.e., in the G.C. blogs, does so because there's truth to it; and 3- listening to these guys describe their game verbally brings the concepts to life in a way reading can't. I'll share one example: deep diving. Listening to Franco Lombardi talk about deep diving conversation topics blew my mind. The concept has gone from an abstract idea to something real and obtainable-- and it's contextualized. I pictured somebody doing it and connected their performance to experiences I already have. Instead of thinking "I'm a smart guy and should be able to do this," as usual, I found myself thinking, "I've already done this, and I can see how I prevent myself from doing it at will." Plus Franco is such a natural and I'm equally impressed with other guests. It seems it's way easier for me to connect with the wisdom of the experts through the auditory medium than through reading.

I didn't want to be single at this age, but I'm convinced that there's an opportunity in it, namely to turn myself into a man girls chase. Why not?


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jan 6, 2020
I am in the Chicago area as well. I am always looking for running mates.

What areas do you usually hit?


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
@h8tehh8ers thanks for the message. Read a couple of your posts and you clearly are approaching this in a scientific way, which I respect. I relate to many of the things you perhap have felt stuck on as well. I also looked at your picture and think you are a good looking dude!

What areas do you usually hit?
I know the entire city pretty well. These days I stay close to the Red Line on the North Side because I'm located north of the city. But I'm also keeping it out-of-doors due to Covid, and that means not going into the city at all because the parks are closed and I'm not going indoors anywhere everyone's not wearing a mask.
I am always looking for running mates.
Yeah man, me too. Hit me up at if my situation doesn't seem too restrictive. Otherwise, thanks again for the message and see you on the boards!


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 27, 2020
Nice man. 39 isn't old. I'm 33 myself, and getting girls seems to be easier the older I get. There's a huge portion of girls looking for a mature guy to teach them about life, the world, etc - you can be that dude.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Continuing to listen to podcasts and I'm getting a new lease on the life project of working on my personality. For me it's about overcoming anxiety and fear and putting myself out there. I recognize for the first time in my life that if I express my sexuality openly, I will get laid any day I choose to with a little effort. And that it will feel good regardless of the results. I think overcoming this fear is primary, but that the skill sets of social framing and situation handling are not much more than common sense, but batting average definitely depends on getting the common sense stuff right, and there are areas of ignorance within me. What I'm saying is that flirting and sexuality are beginning to seem extremely powerful while profoundly simple. If you do it, people look at you in a sexual frame. If you don't people don't, unless you proposition them in one way or another. People like being flirted with, but somehow I don't feel comfortable doing it. It makes me feel sad for all the opportunities for fun and bonding I've missed out on. It's a huge breakthrough to see how it works for others and to see how it would work just as well for me. If I flirt, I will get a positive result, and sometimes I will also get sex.

So what is keeping me from being comfortable with flirting is the thing I am focusing on figuring out right now, along with immersing myself in study of the skills and fundamentals. I think what I'm afraid of is being abandoned. That I will expend emotional energy on someone and then be abandoned by them. Or humiliated. I'm someone who went from no filter pre-adolescence to basically paralyzed through little micro-traumas, as well as a couple really major social traumas. An example of a small trauma-- a public humiliation-- was a disapproving look from across the tennis courts from my high school tennis coach freshman year when he saw me using the handle of my tennis racket to mimic a big dick and stroking it like I was masturbating in the middle of practice. Who cares, right? Well, time and place, and honestly the coach's reaction was not harsh in any way shape or form. But whenever something like that happened when I was coming up, I made a pact with myself to never go through the humiliation of being wrong/caught making a mistake again; and I put the behavior involved in the situation in a "Never Do Again" category. I am just way too sensitive. Anyway I'm working on this stuff and trying to develop a safe frame for myself that will allow me to express myself. It seems so simple but it really feels so complicated. But I believe my life could absolutely take off if I figure this out. More to come.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
I'm going to confine my comments to theory while I try to figure out how to express myself. I get it intellectually that there's no real danger in expressing my sexuality and that I just need to get over what others think, and I even believe that I will make a killing if I do. If I was just fun and outgoing and straight forward and expressed myself, some women I find attractive would be turned on by me. What I say above,
It's a huge breakthrough to see how it works for others and to see how it would work just as well for me. If I flirt, I will get a positive result.
still stands.

I come back to creating a fear hierarchy, having a way to test the waters of self-expression gradually, incrementally. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? Or have any ideas about how to set up exposure experiments? (I mean, I can figure this out myself too.) I feel like this should be a place I can get support in doing that because if I don't get the express-your-sexuality-part I'm not practicing pickup. Take the girl I'm trying to hook up with now. She's provider hunting. If she was my type, I could pursue dating her without learning any additional skills or how to express myself. But I haven't conquered myself if I do that. I haven't learned how to express myself in any situation, with men and women, with people I find attractive, people I don't.

And that's not pickup. The behavior of a pick up artist is to eliminate anyone who doesn't want a casual physical encounter within less than five minutes and to entice anyone who does to express or demonstrate that voluntarily. The elimination isn't perceived as a rejection, just as a choice for that moment that he respects and understands. And a hookup doesn't mean anything because the purpose was only to have casual sex. It's as easy as two guys who both play squash deciding to get together some time to play squash without either creeping the other out or humiliating himself. (Guy 1: I love Fortnight. You play? Guy 2: Eek! Get away from me Freak!) I need to figure out how to do with my sexuality what I do with things that are less charged, and I need to learn how to express myself while I am doing those things...and until I do I will only talk about theory, tactics.
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Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Hello Boys...

Please take all of the following with a grain of salt. Especially the stuff quoting the philosopher Nietzsche. I am 41 years old and have a very sophisticated view of his stuff. If you are under 30 and male, your frontal lobe is not completely hooked up to the rest of your brain yet. Find out what that means and head my advice: please approach these ideas with extreme caution. Second prefatory note is that I am not interested in being told that I am overthinking it. I share concretely on concrete practices and the mental masturbation that follows is fun for me, part of the adventure-- so I will ignore comments to this effect. Third and final is a disclaimer that I speak ill of masturbation, but believe masturbation to be violent but beautiful like an unmuddied lake or azure sky of deepest summer.

Now then. I haven't been on in a while and find that whenever I attempt to post, I get lost in the weeds, so to speak, and can't complete something as a result. I think a few salient points/observations have risen to the surface over the past year-plus of inactivity here though, that I can neatly summarize today. I also will perhaps do a bit of “housekeeping” re: my presence on this site.

“Housekeeping” ties neatly to a bit of background that sets up the key observations I want to share, so that may be a good starting point, actually. The background is two fold: I am old; and I am a really damaged human being. On age, first- three years ago when I was posting here periodically, 39 years old, I was wrong to claim age was a problem; and pickup definitely transcends age, even when you are showing it, which I have begun to do at 41. Beard comes in grey, balding is more prominent, ears and nose have grown beyond their early-life stage sizes— there’s no hiding it, no matter how high my fitness level is. (It is high.) But, on one hand, middle aged white men are heralded in society, and power is a turn on whilst, on the other hand, women are monsters and can see their way to giving even elderly men blowjobs if it suits their self-image, i..e, present self-frame. (Women think of sex constantly, like men, but like men, unless precocious/enlightened, fail to notice a practical applicaton of the sex drive when it is right in front of them, staring them in the face like my cock, as it were.) Presumably, a vocal box and face coax the monster to put its thing in her mouth, in spite of their being trapped in an old, disgusting “costume”. So age is irrelevant. On being damaged secondly, and housekeeping alas: I have posts that are creepy, incoherent and/or adversary and/or combative. I regret these posts because I come off as a shallow, self-absorbed and impertinent person, and I fear that if I become a celebrity they will be connected to me and become a source of shame for my family. Be that as it may, here I am, digging this hole deeper. In order to dig stres-free, I want to ask SSB three things: 1- I want to ask for a new username. With such, I could elude friends I have shared my username and acquire a higher level of anonymity that way. 2- I also want edit one of my posts to make the setting less transparent, in order to protect the identity of someone vulnerable I took advantage of. Please respond by email. 3- I want to ask forgiveness for a default of my payment method for my last period of subscription. I filed for bankruptsy in the midst of the subscription and payment may have failed as a result. If it makes you feel any better, I did not utilize the subscription at all and am still dead broke (and a total dead-beat).

When I woke up today, I did a few visualizations using one of three practices I learned here that I am gong to discuss in this post. I wound up tearing up because I could feel that the practice is changing me from the inside. The practice, credit for which goes to one of the Girls Chase Podcast guests, Glenn Pearce (thank you so much Glenn an other guests for all I've recieved) is to visualize fictive seduction failures. (In my third visualization, I employed an imaginary bro, because I often feel impotent when it comes to expressing my sexuality around men as well as women. Disclaimer: I don't want to fuck dudes.) I forced myself to imagine a few scenarios, complete scenarios, replete with imaginary female seduction targets, who responded “live,” realistically. I marvel at the capacity of the imagination to process these approaches as if they really occur and how, though nothing has really, actually happened, the psycho-physical processes initiated means an experience is “under our belt” as if we had really pulled it off, without the bruise to the ego. And I marvel that I never thought of and still fail to give my approach-daydreams the full treatment, including the inevitablity of rejection. But for anyone who is not a sado-masacist, it makes sense to skip this part doesn't it? The Podcast guest doesn’t state why this practice works, but I think this is why, to wit, the operative phrase “nothing happens" applies to real life as well as daydreams. Right? You go up to a girl, say something to her, or put your arm around her shoulder, and nothing happens— but later on when you are both alone, she wants to fuck you in spite of her own lack of imagination. But unlike reality, in the imaginary rehearsal, when it doesn’t go this way, as is my actual experience of approaching nine out of 10 times, there is no real humiliation. The rejections this morning ended with myself lying in bed...still by my lonesome and able to forget these horrible events ever happened, which is much harder, ney impossible, for me to do in a real situation. Rehearsals that are, as I see it, really difficult to will oneself to do, are revealing that I have everything I need within me, right now in this very moment, to seduce women and posture effectively with men. Why, again? Because I am engaged in a practice of directing compassion to myself in the midst of a stressful situation. The stress should eventually fall away completely, resulting in the posession of a powerful means of expressing my sexuality, right Glenn et al.?

The second practice helping me is an expansion of an insight shared by Glenn Pearce as wellt using a gimmick I discovered elsewhere well-known in the clinical mental health universe. Glenn is big on self-acceptance, if not already evident from the last paragraph. In his guest appearance on the Podcast, it is suggested that approaching is not to be advised until a certain level of self-mastery is attained so that it can be pulled off without undue stress and anxiety, successful or not. Else the approach leads to a repetition of something unpleasant, even traumatic. From where I write, I’m still about half-way through this practice, so, as I am adhering rigidly to this maxim, you won’t see me posting in the “live interaction reports” section just yet. (I have violated this maxim too many times in the past, but though I suddenly find it to be extremely sage, I don’t see any problem with the counter-advice, i.e., advising approaches before fear is mostly overcome. But for some people, myself included, this spells sure failure.) The fear is overcome through self-love, according to the Podcast guest. For me, this means practicing radical acceptance with regards to myself and my life and reality in general. Radical acceptance is just telling myself "it's ok;" and it's the domain of the heart chakra according to my favorite chakra guru. The head/thought-chakra provides reasons to love, but is based in logic, whereas radical acceptance violates the logic of the mind holding that the object of potential acceptance is fucked. Be it as it may, holding back on approaching for a time wouldn’t seem necessary in the absence of a thorough realization of the incessent trap of self-hate, the energy of the fourth chakra being the only force (non-force?) that can overcome the same. (How to engage this energy center beyond the already-stated is beyond the scope of this post but I recommend getting your hands on some Walter Malichen material if interested.) Glenn Pearce wants his pupils to accept themselves absolutely, acceptance by which approaching exists in a part of their psyche characterized by a sense of comfort, or if not comfort, tolerable stretching— but not alarm. Enter the well known mental health gimmick alluded to top of this paragraph above, which is visualizing three concentric circles representing the three states of mind (comfort/challenge/alarm or distress) in-to-out; and finding out what behaviors and thoughts correspond to which. It’s bogus to force oneself into the alarm/panic zone-- the outer circle-- is what I finally decided for myself. If seduction exists way out in that region of the psyche map, it is out of the question for me— simply out of the question, at this point in my development. I knew Glenn's advice resonated when I first recieved it about three years ago, but it took a while to embrace and I only captured the full meaning this October when I connected the psychic zone map with the advice. It has been powerful for me, as described below; and as I say, I think I’m about midway through a process that is going to enable me to expand my comfort and challenge zones to include approaching. F.M. Alexander of Alexander Technique-fame (a person who deserves hard criticism for racist statements attributed to him, by the way) says “end-gaining” is when the body is not equipped to instruct itself properly and goes about engaging in some process to gain a desired end anyway. I’m just too damaged not to re-traumatize myself when I approach women I find attractive. (Please, no arguing this. I have been in the hospital. I have been home and bed-bound. I take powerful psychotropic medication without which I can't function (Zoloft, due to a sinus-dysfunction-related dependancy to the same). I’ve gone through hell at the hands of others and internally, and some hell-states (that first cropped up the first time I withdrew from Zoloft due to health concerns unrelated to severe social anxiety) visit me regularly, including that associated with certain habitual failures, which include approaching.) I believe as well that my stress-strate is communicated subtly to the person I approached, who is receiving my focused attention in that moment. The good news is that by viewing certain areas of the psyche as prohibited, when these areas are actually treacherous, alarm- or trauma-inducing within the psyche, there is a constructive course of action, pointed to by the Glenn Pearce and F.M. Alexander. Both suggest it is possible to creates a loving, accepting internal environment in the presence of the psychic and bodily danger in the alarm zone-- which moves the alarm state further into the distance, permanently, eventually. As such, I am not using this psychic map or the concept of end-gaining or the advice to feel self-love before approaching as an excuse to avoid something unpleasant. I am using these principles to take care of myself; by extension extending respect to females who don’t deserve to be accosted though they may desire to be seduced and subsiquently boned; and finding that the true rewards are to be found in the journey rather than the destination. I always hated when people said the last, but now I find myself discovering this timeless truth through my own practice (!!!!!!!). Glenn Pearce's advice has been invaluable in achieving a handle on and motivation to utilize practices associated with this un-unique discovery.

However, this is a recent insight, and I’m stuck in this spot of not approaching until there’s a shift in my psyche allowing me to move through a seduction scenario without extreme self-hatred and inner-turmoil. I don’t know how long I’ll be here, but I do think that I will keep a pretty tight lid on my desire to approach, until seduction is actually in the cards for me— meaning I’m feeling challenged by or comfortable with an approach scenario rather than alarmed by it. I've been stuck for a long time, and new ideas, even extreme ones such as this one, are called for. But practicing it has contributed to a sense of self-control and contentment that I remembver feeling ever before; and I don’t think I can understate the impact it has had on my self-esteem and overall sense of well-being. It’s the end of lust and desire and clinging for me— it’s nothing less than salvaton. I accept that it is controversial. But for this case study (me), time shall tell, and I will report on my experience. Nothing else has gotten the job done for me to this point. "Initiate physical contact without asking for permission after establishing little to no raport,” is something I have done, and it works, but can backfire. Gambits, discussed in depth in the next paragraph below, represent dead-ends for me in my current sate as well. Chase's core concept, that we need to bipass cognitive dissonence with seduction behaviors, is fundamental to the hope I have that I can succeed as a seducer more than I fail. But alongside or parallel to learning some techniques associated with these strategies, I need to fix something traumatized and broken within me. I'll start approaching when I feel myself coming into a new sense of well-being, and I think that's begun already, quite recently.

The third practice I wanted to discuss in this post is creating rhymes and descriptive or expository thoughts in my head. It is not directly from the Girls Chase podcasts as such, but is connected to the advice to create gambits, i.e., lines of logic leading to a shared conclusion that a girl should let you take her home or into the bathroom and fuck her, today, right now, often shared here. My interaction with the gambit advice, however, has always been disappointing. I write things down occasionally and think of things that seem skillful almost constantly but nothing I come up with pans out for me. Now, as mentioned in other posts, I have had girlfriends and have fucked upwards of forty women (way higher than average I’m pretty sure), but very few of these experiences have been without either: a) regret due to betrayal of myself and my companion, which can take many forms all rooted in ego-deception; and/or b) pain associated with “falling hard,” i.e. catching feelings. What impels me to speak and act in such a way that these outcomes are 100 percent assured is as follows, metaphorically speaking. Monkeys can use gambits, and perhaps if one uses enough of them, it will become a man. But I doubt it. But, if monkeys do monkey things they might have positive monkey experiences and be happy being just monkeys. I’m not knocking gambits that hard, but think the capacity I need to develop is to create a spontaneous experience. The more verbal acumen present, the better the chances of doing so, I think. But this is secondary. To illustrate, a different guest on the Podcast talks about ten facial expressions that women find arousing. I think in Chase’s own view, words are used sparsely, sparingly in seduction. But I’d be willing to bet that he and all Podcast guests have a handle on the big picture, the overall frame, and that this contributes to their ability to pair the right words with the right facial expressions, body language, et al., at the right moments. Rhyming, half of the gambit-like practice I've been building up to, is a great way to discover metaphors and similes, it turns out; and describing physical reality prosaically is a great way to be in touch with the here and now, the second half. I'm not so sure verbal dexterity is that important in seduction, but the right frames, even if only internal, metaphore included, is. If I cannot give myself license to say absurd or incisively “real” or true things in my head, I’m going to be lost when externals are introduced into the situation. Rhyming and descriptive inner monologue can help with this. Metaphor certainly is a powerful tool of seduction; I think I was so out of touch with constructive metaphor (such as, “there is a cucumber in hear; want to see what it feels like in your hand?”) that I needed to develop a practice that delivers the nuts and bolts of creating them. Rhyming or “free-styling” or “flowing” is the way I’ve opened myself up to the possibility of metaphor in seduction. Sexually speaking, pure metaphor is pure gold, for the male and female intellect alike, no different than pure humor/jokes. Metaphors surprise and bewilder. They are fun and innocent. They are seductive, there’s no question about it. As for prose, same thing. If you can describe something directly, it’s pure gold too. I'm practicing creating poetry and prose to help me get in touch with the here and now, and develop decent frames and symbols to employ in seduction.

Putting the three practices above together, what I suspect is that at some point I am going to feel ready to put myself out there in any situation, because I will have a deep visceral knowledge of the true nature of seduction: masturbating. So heads up: I am moving into a more contemplative, philisophical, less practical portion of this post. My favorite philosopher, F. Nietzsche (another person who has earned my rebuke for basically bigoted thought attributed to him), may agree (or have agreed) with me about seduction’s core essence. I have been a chronic masturbator since I was 13 years old, and that was a premature age for myself; and I have begun to view masturbation as a closeted form of something we, as social animals, can develop into and replace it with using socially permissable abstractions if we are present enough to do so. Flirting is an abstracted form of masturbation. As is anything anyone “gets off on” in a non-anti-social nature. Girls Chase is an extremely refined curriculum or system of flirtation— the other, social-oriented pole to anti-social-in-nature masturbation's. Yet, sex, if it is to be distilled into its essence, is totally masturbatory and nothing else. So in seduction, on a philosophical level, nothing is at stake.

In practice, this is the experience I think I am going for too. I like the idea of feeling as if I can say anything I want to anyone at any time; and with self-acceptance, I can, without adverse consequence. Acceptance of the masturbatory nature of just about every moment of my life— every moment in which I feel empowered or in control, that is— and, critically, to overcome the reflex to conceal my will to get off, are the seducer’s mastery, because masturbation is incredibly seductive and incredibly difficult to do in public. Nietzsche says there is between the sexes an abiding hatred, meaning females are to be looked upon as my nemeses, if I interpret accurately. I think that at base masturbation is an antisocial, violent act; and the form that drives me to do it has always been female. So, I agree with him. But all of the invisible ways I hate women, many of which are aesthetic and thus quite visible, cause me to wish that they did not exist; that they would always and only be socially and sexually subservient to me; that they all had hour glass bodies— get in the way of what I want (sex). What enables me to transcend (sublimate?) all that hatred is behavior— speech and action-- through which we (me and my nemesis) can masturbate together within a shared space and time. All comes back to the idea that nothing is happening other than pure violence and enacted hatred. The instruction to react, rather than initiate, spells doom for seduction. Who is more reactive, man or woman? Clearly, men. That’s one reason approaching is so hard, and this is why I keep facial hair on my face: it’s an admission I have something to hide (my inferiority to females) and an attempt at being aesthetically aggressive, and by extension, seemingly powerful and thus desirable. (Disclaimer: Nietzsche's having had a mustache and our close genetic stock, i.e., similarity of physical features are the real reasons I have a face tarantula on my mouth.)

While heavily philosophical, the following is a bit more grounded in “reality” than the last paragraph. There is a complexly inlaid physical component to approaching that I think is more intense for me than many. Firstly, I am athletic, powerful, quick, and fast and have used these characteristics to get almost everything I’ve attained in life. I was a professional soccer player, am a coach currently, and have earned the bulk of the rest of my income in the building trades. As such, I am built to stay in motion, which is bad for approaching. Channeling my experience through my body is also, secondly, in my nature as someone who is emotionally rather than cognitively or intuitively inclined. This is an insight lended by some books I’ve read on the Enneagram, which is a personality type classification system I love. My primary and secondary types are both in the emotion triad of the nine-type system (Three and Four, respectively). Emotions are the most visceral of experiences within the triad, and they are very, very difficult to create abstract concepts out of, meaning emotions are almost impossible to harness in the arena of social conduct. Or just about any arena. An emotion is proof of whatever is present in the mind. A thought, on the other hand, is not imprint-able without an emotion; intuition, meanwhile, leaves almost no record of having surfaced in the psyche whatsoever until it is acted upon. Obviously, all three have their pitfalls. My emotional makeup lends itself to things like impulsiveness, inertia of all kinds, and selfishness, all killers in approach. Thirdly, I also belong to the group in society most imprinted by society’s hierarchy, as a member of the “top” echelon of the hierarchy. Hear me out on this! Parents connected to old money and intellectual prestige. Whilst they teach me to prostrate myself to anyone who seems to have any power expecting them to give them and by extension me something valuable for doing so (read: for being white and educated), questioning their imprint upon me is meanwhile necessarily unwise— and on top of that, what they teach has been delivered with such authority and assurance of presence, in other words, authority, that questioning is bound to be extremely painful. (So generation after generation, in my lineage, unless you are a “natural” you shouldn’t expect to learn seduction.) But inversely, within my imprint of my parents, I am all twisted up inside. (On top of that, pre-traumatization circa 6th grade through 12th grade, I don’t think I ever was actually a natural. And as alluded to, I recieved a lot of counter indicitave-- to seduction and being a decent human being-- training at home as well.) The physical aspects of my neuroticism are many, and in the absence of an intention to abide by my imprint, I have chosen physical releases from the imprint that are, should we say, unnatural and complicating regarding my authentic seduction abilities. Chronic masturbation, brutal and violent athletic pursuits, reckless sex and drug practices have all left their imprints on my body. That body imprisons me thusly and through my deference to physicality and my propensity for emotion-centered action.

But again we have good old F.M. Alexander. I paraphrase: “In order to change habits of body, we must change habits of mind.” It is the selfish, violent nature of such rewiring that astonishes me (sorry, but now we are back to Nietzsche). The violence is luckily though the destruction of something that serves a ghost, replacing it with a preferential orientation to self (this is very Buddhist); and, crucially, we can’t attain it by willing it. A muscular body, mine holds high amounts of tension— mostly in the two psoases major, I am told— but a skillful re-orientation to reality provides incremental liberation; so says Alexander, Girls Chase writ large, and Mustache Mouth, I think. This is the liberation of self-acceptance, choosing reality over fantasy, and, according to Nietzsche, something violent. Violent as sex; violent as masturbation; violent as choosing reality over fantasy.

So there is a physical, utterly violent component to the advice to hold one’s body completely still while talking to women, surely. And it is something that is easier for some than others. Not violence in the commonly conceived form of the word. Violent as in a Beethoven symphony erasing a sour mood; violence as in cellular physiology, which excludes, devours and metabolizes; violence as in good sex, which of necessity insults everyone but the two (or more) participants partaking in it (in a society of sheep). The freedom provided by such "violence" is immense, however, and I look forward to achieving it more completely, little by little. Once I get there, I will have overcome some very intense physical habits, including masturbatory athletic pursuits; realistic-seeming emotional experiences that lead me to a dark room with some porn, pastries and whole milk, all depositing their substances on my shirt; offensive body language invisible to myself due to my conditioning at the hands of a powerful and small family of origin (I am an only child), discussed a bit above; etc. Then, I’ll be teaching others to attain their own freedom to seduce, like the members of the Girls Chase team contributing to this website do. I look forward to being that good, even if it is in a middle-aged or even more advanced body and even if my prose are to prosaic, offensive, or otherwise unworthy for Chase Amante to hire me. It’s not a race. As Method Man cautions against in “A Better World” (Wu-Tang Forever disc one, track 11), echoing Glenn Pearce, whom I have gotten so much out of, and Alexander:

As we dwell through this concrete hell, callin' it home/
Mama say, "Take your time, young man, and build your own/
Don't wind up like your old dad/
Still searchin' for them glory days he never had"

There are many essential things I already have mastered, that I’m not sharing here. My sexuality is growing by watching a lot of porn (yes, a real live woman did teach me how to eat pussy many years back; yes I do think porn conveys a lot about romance and sexuality); my understanding of the value of actual pussy is closer to reality than it once was (hint from Girls Chase sources: it’s equal to, not greater than my own sex organs); and I have improved my wardrobe without spending much money in the process. (I dress like a writer or professor, even though I am not either, yet.) In short, there’s work to be done, and I am thinking the right thoughts by way of admission that when I have it, I’ll know it, and that I know I don’t have "it" quite yet. If I continue to develop along the lines I’ve really begun to develop, as I have attempted to define in my own language throughout above, I am going to get a lot of pussy, and I’ll be indistinguishable from a ladies man and able to perfectly hide what I really am deep, down inside: a small child who just wants to get his rocks off because he has been utterly alienated by his experience, a complex but empty distillation of hate, greed and delusion, in other words, all the ignorance within humanity incessently reflected back at him within himself. Wish me luck.

All for now. Peace to all.
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Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
A bunch of breakthrough-reports now.

One. Independence. I can tell I've grown immensely since I was last active here a couple years ago because I'm not impulsively getting on the boards every twenty minutes after posting something to see if anyone has liked or responded, like I was.

Two. On masturbation. Twelve months ago I put advice I received a long time ago from a therapist and I moved beating off from the category of addiction to that of self-care. As a result, I'm experiencing new vibes around it and believing in myself more. This in turn has increased my assertiveness with family members especially. "I'm masturbating now, leave me the fuck alone." You know?

Three. Health breakthroughs this year. First, I solidified my conviction that I was prescribed a medication that caused a physiological dependency on it within me, on which I am still dependent, over twenty years ago. That medication is Zoloft, and the breakthrough came as a result of a doctor explaining to me for the first time after all these years that the pain in my head and behind my sternum-- chronic, constant burning, aching, soreness in ears, occipital region, jaw, behind eyes, stinging eyes, and the same behind the sternum-- is a result of some malady of the sinuses. This pain literally drives me crazy. While I still don't know why this is the case, I am committed to staying on the only medication I know of that alleviates it (though not as much any more, and even as I write I ache in every place just indicated, a lot), and that is itself progress. The second breakthrough is that I began taking medication for an under-active thyroid, which I have known about for upwards of ten years and think I've been afflicted with for more like 20, corresponding also with first SSRI withdrawal, back when I was 19 years old, and which severely affects my energy. As a result, I don't struggle staying awake or getting out of bed early in the morning (if that's the best logical move), and I only need seven or even less of hours of sleep. For the past seven years, on or off Zoloft, I've really really struggled with wakefulness, concentration and mood to the degree that it's been totally debilitating. The transformation has been miraculous. The habit to stay in bed is still there, but on the days I get out of bed, I don't crave naps, seven months out; and I don't struggle with a severe anxiety and deppressive mood when I wake up in the morning and have no trouble going to bed at a decent hour, not too early, not too late, night after night.

Four. More on masturbation. Forseveral rasons, I either forget to or lack the desire/compulsion to masturbate some times. Unheard of. One, I am envisioning myself successfully picking up girls without undue stress and anxiety. I’ve wrote this, verbatum, in the past, but then it was wishful thinking, and now I am exhibiting actual seductive/magnetic behavior. Proof is in the pudding: I have begun to think like, “Eh. Porn will be accessible tomorrow, and I could probably get laid pretty easily if I tried anyway”— and believed it! (Easy, but not stress-free. I’m working up to that and am not approaching just yet, for now.) Two, my life is becoming more fun, more productive, more meaning-packed in the following ways. 1- I’ve had breakthroughs related to my artistic pursuits, which now fill my time in a more organized and potent (you could say professional) way than they used to. For example, I finally wrote a complete short story. 2- I have come to terms with being a “lowly” carpenter. I don’t wish I was going to a different job on work-days anymore. If any skilled or unskilled trades person feels that way, talk to me. (Remuneration is another question.) 3- I have been putting some ecological skill-sets into practice that have moral value for me.

Five. More on addictions. In addition to masturbating, I have several other addictions, not including TV. The most damaging acutely-speaking is smoking trees. Similar to the report on jerking off, smoking weed seems to be getting pecked away at by breakthroughs from all directions. I’m having experiences of forgetting I want it and thinking “It’s not the best thing to do right now,” and consequently not smoking what I have on hand (unheard of) or not going out to get it even though I want to have it. I attribute this to general growth, finding more meaning in the other aspects of my life as discussed above, and to the fact that I have worked through some serious anger issues. (This is a full item below). I used weed to cut through rage and dull anger— to take the edge off in other words. (To elaborate on this concept, I felt safer going around high because I could be detached and feel less vulnerable to my emotions, which are volatile and stress me out and ruin everything when not in hand. I could go out and be around people and remain checked out. It was a great tool.) (By the way, it took years of practice before I could be around people at all while high, and more years still before I could get work done high, and more years beyond that before I could work without making tons of mistakes. I went through a great phase of smoking daily and working on my writing for hours on end day in and day out. This month, I picked back up after a month of travel and avoiding, and nothing I'm doing right now, including current writing projects, has freshness, so I'm caving to the pull to be a couch potato, a side-effect of toking I have yet to work through and doubt if I ever will.) Since releasing some big chunks of chronic anger, I just smoke to get high.

Five. Patience. Meditation has become easier as the result of a bit of fortune involving an extremely powerful incentive to sit quietly still (perhaps you can guess what, though it's not ever going to be explicitly explained by me) and my presence of mind to utilize this time to do so. The strong incentive enabled me to overcome one of the hardest aspects of meditating, the self-evident requirement of "waiting." I was sitting still, waiting for a metaphorical carrot, and I was also meditating, thereby waiting to resume "formal" activity. I realized that I was able to wait. I forced myself to do it, and it was worth it because of the carrot, firstly, but subsequently, because I discovered a capacity within me that has been elusive for the longest. This because I suffer greatly when I feel bored or otherwise want time to pass faster-- more than most I'm sure-- ever since some of my traumatic mental health stuff first started happening. This represents a regressive state, to the state of mind of a very small child, who cannot abide having to wait for anything. Freedom from this has come and with it freedom to meditate. It's easier than before as a result of a second turn of fortune in my favor, which I think is just getting a modicum of mastery. Conceptually, my favorite practices (the ones I hold as most potent) are newly within intellectual grasp. I see the different parts or facets of these practices like I see food on a plate at dinner or the equipment baseball players use to play business. They have become concrete. As such, I can use meditation, as I know it, outside of an isolated, remote practice of sitting meditation, and when I am meditating, I have insight that becomes immediately part of my psyche vis a vis what I do with my body in my life. For example, I notice changes in depth of breath both while doing stuff and while meditating, and connect the two experiences of such noticing readily. It's at it's beginning stages for sure. I note here for anyone reading who is interested in meditating that previous to this new layer of the meditation onion so-to-speak, I always had at least one piercing insight or awareness of esoteric value every single time I sat for twenty minutes or more. (“sat" = "meditate") Imagination doesn't cease to be a part of seduction; tactics and strategies are required. There's more to this than becoming a Zen master. But it's helping, I'm sure.

Six (part one). Release of anger. Being offered six and a half hours of hospitality by my hometown's "Finest" changed my attitude toward cops, white supremacists and fascists of all stripes. In brief, my resentment and hatred of them fell away pretty much wholesale. This is a BIG change for me. Since I was left-radicalized by a series of intense experiences beginning about ten years ago, I have been bitter, angry, and self-pity-riddled. The hate has been directed at society and members of it who represent ignorance of all forms to me. Of course, as a sensitive and perspicacious man, my hatred bothered me immensely. Well, it turns out that all I had to do to get over it was to stand up for what I believed and then get arrested and dumped in a jail cell. It was definitely all of it. The hospitality I received, the observance of men and women I know to be conservative socially and politically in their "natural" environment (read: workplace), the outcome of ultimately being left alone and released by them, resulted in realizations that washed away my anger, and as soon as I got out of jail I began to experience, first, a filling of the newly formed vacuum with love and gratitude for what I know and have; and second, a tolerance of the presence of folks with opinions and beliefs different than my own. This is GOOD for seduction, and life in general, I am sure of that.

Six (part two). Putting rage mind-states to bed for the time being. Also precipitated by being arrested four months back. There's been an awareness of the nature and effects or symptoms of rage due to the filling of the vacuum just mentioned with positive sentiments. Something begetting suffering stands out in a more pure, less desecrated psyche, it turns out. Rage is one such thing, and others are beginning to receive a foil in my consciousness as well. Rage is a powerful one that is good for seduction though. I'm less scary, more approachable, more present, more calm. Rage is a energy-state that comes and stays for a while, and then goes like a patch of clouds on an otherwise sunny day. The rage energy state is simply a substrate. A substrate for a violent outburst. Violence can be furry-based, which is I suppose just as bad. But furry requires no "prepping of the soil" as it were, as rage does. And if the conditions required for an attack of rage do not arise while the energy state is present, nothing happens. But in the energy state of rage, certain positive recollections are barred from the psyche, and all that is menacing and scary takes shape in the body, eyes and brow. It's not where you want to be when you’re around kids or women, or anyone, really. And I have dismantled many a room while under the influence of rage. (Well, dismantled things in many rooms, I could say.) Rage sucks and it's a relief to be able to spot and elude it. This is the result of releasing many angry thought patterns, precipitating a more "cleanly" psychic state, habitually. It just is noticeable energetically now. Great improvement.

Seven. Fundamentals part one. Calmness around others. I am able to keep my entire body still, almost all of the time, in presence of other men and women. While I am not overtly seducing, flirting or approaching (except for a couple lapses of discipline, each of which was fucking awesome), I am noticing that I am quite magnetic to men and women alike now due to the ability to stand still with my mouth shut through an entire interaction unless prompted to speak. When centered, I can maintain silence without feeling insecure. Unheard of. A few additional awarenesses. I am in control of my facial expressions to a much greater degree than ever before. For example, I noticed, for the first time, that I make a "Daffy Duck" expression by spreading my lips wide and up on one side at a time A LOT. That was very easy to curb, and curb it I have. Another example is shaking of the leg while seated on the train or in a cafe. I'll keep this mention superficial, though it goes pretty deep, it turns out. In a word, curbing the knee-bounce is necessary to retain stillness at times, and this stillness is empowering and alluring/attractive, it seems. Final example- controlling the thumbs and index fingers is getting quite easy. We use these fingers to express sexual preference and receptiveness, it seems. If I do so, I choose to express neutrality or lack of preference, and I never express receptiveness, because I don't want to receive a cock in any of my orifices. Both thumbs up says, "tolerant of faggots"-- which I am. People appreciate being told that through hand-made symbols. People also betray themselves when you don't I am noticing. Men, women, and children alike. They form a circle with the two fingers mentioned in one or both hands. They let me-- someone they deem as more powerful then themselves due both to my above-average height and stocky, athletic build and youth (leaving me), and due to my exhibition of calmness and poise, achieved through being still throughout my body-- know whether they prefer to be penetrated in the mouth or anus (men) or vagina or anus (men), should my jumping on them come to pass. Around powerful, still men, I find it difficult to keep myself from forming a circle in my right hand. Please, not anal, I feel urged to communicate! This awareness of symbolic gesture making and facial expression is expanding and it is profound.

Eight. Fundamentals part two. I maintain eye-contact. But at the same time don't stare people down. Things like this are finally transparent for me in others. The upshot is that I can manipulate people in a skillful way from a place of stillness/while staying centered. Knowing when others feel vulnerable or on the defensive is huge. Life changing. This is the result of the growth I'm experiencing resulting from a lot of work over a very long period of time. It'll be huge once I start approaching.

Nine. Assertiveness. I say no in a skillful (kind and compassionate) manner. I've always thought transparency was a best-practice but was very, very unable to pull it off. But I'm gaining the skill-set. I'm figuring out how to express my truth, and I'm receiving constructive feedback that sometimes proves extraordinarily enlightening as a byproduct. For example, I did a housing/work exchange during October in an intentional community run by close friends. They put me with a hired carpenter a bunch of times. I felt this to be exploitative for reasons I won't go into here and indirectly stated as much. I was trying to be subtle-- which, by the way, was not part of my repertoire as few as ten years ago. I was ignored. Later on in the month, I got over it, but I brought it up as an example of a difficulty I have communicating disappointment or aversion during a conflict involving other stuff. I admitted that I don't know what to say, how to express my perspective, in such circumstances. My pal suggested I might have said, "I'd rather not [work with the carpenter]". I responded immediately, "That is fucking the most brilliant thing anyone has ever said to me." I have been using this or similar sentences, previously excluded from my lexicon, periodically ever since. I am avoiding what I want to avoid as a result, and I am not receiving any recrimination or other negative emotion from others when I do. It's really quite freeing to get this kink worked out of my psyche. It was a result of keeping with my pursuit of transparency and finally getting there. The wisdom in others is mine, and it is beneficial to and for me, if I just treat them the right way and know how to get it out of them. Never been very good at this, getting much much better.

Ten. Perspective on the nature of sexual repression in society. Sexual repression leads to pathology. It is the result of patriarchy. What is patriarchy other than capitalism, which is the current form of chartalism— and is it (patriarchy) good? With this perspective comes questions, however. I pose these formally elsewhere inanother post, but a few observations here. Should I bang every woman on my block, married or not? Being of above average looks to begin with, now that I have developed control over gestures, body language and facial ticks, I know that want this D (but I am still at the point in growth that I if I open my mouth nine out of ten times the attraction will totally disappear). If I have a preference for matriarchal society/society of women, as Karl Marx put it, I must balance that with my aversion to anarchy born of chaos-- chaos which will surely arise in the families of women I bed. Being wise is not my strong suit historically. I want and need to work this out and could def. use help doing so.
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Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
The last post was full of bragidaggio (sp?) and breakthrough reports. This one is about several struggles I have not overcome and continue to be stumped by.

Struggle One. Self control. People are sensitive and due to their sensitive nature and propensity to take things personally, flirting is a behavior that is riddled with "land mines." Two problem areas stand out. First, communities don't tolerate it infinitely. In a small community such as a rural town, which I have experienced quite a bit actually, there are a very limited number of seduction targets. You can't expect to survive in either the literal or non-literal sense if you choose wrong.

Two. Turning it off once it's on, or, put another way, focusing it correctly. So, I watched a documentary called Liberated (2017) last night, and there is this European-Australian dude who is portrayed approaching mad women at spring break. He uses a quick verbal game and touch extensively. You wouldn't want to behave this way, say, at a park full of moms of toddlers, would you? Or turn it on for a woman you see in town who is clearly married/"taken" right? Or at work? I think developing seduction skills will require a fair amount of self-control and presence of mind. I've never banged a married woman, but I could see that changing. Any thoughts on this, guys?

Three. My purile nature. Background: I lost the Vcard when I was 21. I had multiple hook-ups before but never tried to stick it in. As a 24 year-old, I had a regular hook-up I was fine not sticking it in. She wsa 20 and didn't want it. We got each other off but I didn't try to fuck her. I am no longer this way. If I take you into a bedroom and you have a pussy, the plan is to bone you unless you ask me not to. My learning edge right now is innitiating physical contact in addition toverbal game. I'm a shy guy still. Like I wasn't trying to bone when I was young-adult, I'm not trying to hug strangers I've just met, kiss family or friends on both cheeks when greeting, or anything of that nature. It's how seductive men behave though. I want to figure out how to change this. Three points of reference on this topic.1- Way over the line. In college, buddies of mine gang raped a girl in alcohol blackout in a room adjacent to mine. I was aware it was going on and lost all respect for the three individuals involved, immediately. 2- Grey Zone. Several years before that, in high school, I was sitting next to a female acquaintance I had an extensive background with, whom I would within the hour take into a back room and hook up with (no sex, too fucking innocent at 16!). To her left (other side on the couch), a pal of mine I have pretty much always despised, who is three years younger (so, 13 or 14 at the time), who had just kinda sidled up after we were already seated, stuck his hand in her shorts and began fingering her. I allowed it to happen because she did. But it absolutely disgusted me. 3- Grey area depicted in the movie Liberated (2017), Dudes at the beach on spring break copping feels on college chicks in bikinis (of course racist-ass film-makers choose black guys to focus on).

Four. Envy. I don't resent that pal of mine for fingering my friend next to me that night, but I can go to a place inside where I burn with envy. The type of envy born of perception of possession of a woman-- possession I intellectually despise. This is a complicating emotion/thought set, to be sure. It has no place in a healthy human psyche, and I think due to being sexual beings, competence in seduction is the only way whatsoever to cast it out .

Five. Seducing anyone seems risky anymore.Of course, females can turn on you, but my concern is not with the females, but with envious, unscrupulous or busy-body, meddling men. You never know who's watching and who will find out, or who is gonna lash out in more or less lethal fashion.I've been punched before. (I've also been granted clemency by acquaintances whos women I've compelled to cheat with me.) I'm finding that society views transgressions, real or imagined, with WAY less tolerance when commited by middle aged men than young-adult men. For us older guys, there is no leniency. We get the book thrown at us. We are hated just because we are not young. We are, moreover, ostracized when we are not married. I could see it being easier to sleep with tons of women in a community as a married man than as a single one. At 41, you are a wierdo, creep or psychopath if you don't have a family. I increasinly wish not to have one. Also, whether due to increased sensitivity as I get older or media-induced trauma, society scares me now.

Six God damnit if I can't gain anything on two primary tactics in seduction: commitment disqualification and open relationships. The first is self-explanitory and I suck at it, at least prior to now. I think it may be improved and we shall see when I start approaching. (Related aside: I bristle at the idea of using a formulaic tactic-set but think it's time, both due to being finally able to skillfully produce one, and due to it likely being a good aide at the outset of a new chapter in approach attempts. Writing that may just have enabled me to get past this but I should be receptive to and seek out others' thoughts on this topic.) The second needs clarifying, because what I reallywant, I think, is an open, committed relationship. I want a live in girlfriend who wants me to bring other females home constantly without telling any lies. This lifestyle is the pinnical of seduction, and it's what I want becauseI like sex and a lot of it.
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Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
I posted the following on another person's thread and realized it was too much for someone else's "territory" but like it so am cutting and pasting to this thread. This list addresses posts in a thread about "drawing orgasms through the spine" in the "Sex" forum.
  • "Beyond No-Fap" is the first concept that resonated and in turn drew me into the thread. There is no shame (/every word rhymes with pain). (The parenthetical part of this sentence makes the two phrases combined an Anti-Pop Consortium lyric.)
  • I have a dependency on Zoloft due to sinus dysfunction, which is debilitating, from withdrawal. Spending half of my adult life (I'm 41 years old) off the drug has meant extreme mental health problems. I've always used masturbation to cope/numb distressing emotions related to social and vocational impitence. About a year ago, I began to experience a highy euphoric mind/body state by stroking it for a very long time (around 60 minutes). I think this state transends the dopamine shortage the euphoria of masturbation produces and is helping me naturally heal. My ultimate goal is fixing the sinuses so I don't need Zoloft. I have other things I'm doing or need to do that are more conventional, but physio- and psycho-therapy seem pertinent as well. Masturbation is part of my long-standing regiment.
  • I have indeed begun doing what I've been thinking of as kundilini with my masturbation. I'm sold on the idea of conservation of whatever energies are released by masturbating. Kundilini is all about the spine as well, so it seems like a fit, based on the skim I gave the material in this thread
  • Essoterically-- or not-- the body is put into use to express symbolic meaning; in other words, the wrists, fingers, toes, spine, etc., express everything we think and feel and intuit in symbolic form. The idea of putting these and other body parts, including the cock, under conscious control appeals to me for this reason
  • F.M. Alexander, of whom I am a student long, long time, developed a method to establish "conscious constructive control" of the self. He says mind and body are one, and in light of the previous point above, one, and the effectiveness of the mental process Alexander deliniates in my experience, two, I agree whole-heartedly. It's interesting to think about semen as anatomy, and what it must mean to the mind/body unit to expell it through ejaculation. I am super compelled to develop a practice that encompases my semen. Little guys with blue hats swimming around the place... By the way, I highly suggest reading Alexander and seeking lessons, as well as the Franklin Method, which uses imagery to develop conscious constructive control of the organism. Both are pure gold for the mind and body.
  • Due to my recently cultivated obsessoin with the body's subconscious enactment of symbol-- which I am trying to elevate to the conscious level (which is one of the big draws of Girls Chase for me, and seduction, the most intense practice of self-control, socially-/external-facing I have knowledge of)-- I have found a meaning for the cock I never saw anywhere else/have never come across before, namely that of time machine. I think it's generally believed in the "East" that left and right sides of the body correspond to future and past, respectively. Clocks are oppositely oriented, as is the use of objects to symbolize time, in my observations. So, clocks' rotary axle, tilted on edge, spin away from the oberver-- forward as it were. When I feel confident, I spin axial objects away from me, forward-- or I scratch the left side of my face, or I glance left with the eyes or head. Conversely, when I feel unconfident, I spin an axial object, say a pencil or ring I am wearing, back toward me. Conceptually, a stationary axial object can serve the same function through movement of the hands or fingers around its perimeter, one direction being future/forward, the other representing past/retreat/backward. It seems that male anatomy provides both the most indiscrete or overt and most centrally placed external object for symbolic expression of time through physical gesture. The cock or phallus. Otherwise, omen have two nipples-- we do too; women can insert objects into any oraphus and spin them around-- which they have three of and we have only two-- but who ever does that unconsciously; and the cock, as mentioned, is very, very prominent and central to male anatomy. The symbolic meaning of the phalus may have its import in this relation to time manipulation in a society without constant contact with artificial phallic objects. Beyond this, in coordination, male bodies are used, due to their superiority of size and strenght, to spin women's bodies in dance. A lot of clockwise spins must mean "she the one!" This has spiritual implications, as symbols or abstractions are what we use to describe spirituality, according to the field of epistemology.
  • Masturbation has always been a huge impediment to my body practice, i.e., the. development of habitual bodily relaxation. As I've had breakthroughs with body practice, particularly whole-sale, permanent release of tension in one muscle group or another, my masturbation habit has become correspondingly less tense as well. In other words, the breakthroughs transfer to masturbation. Currently, I tense toes, ankles, wrists, fingers, buttox, hip flexors and kneck when I beat off. I used to tense throughout the back and in the shoulders, but have eliminated essentially 100% of that tension in masturbation through Alexander Technique, Franklin Method, mindfullness meditation, and pilates. (Of all of these, again, Alexander is by far my favorite...) Other than the new discovery of euphoria-- which, by the way, I think was aided by cannibus and commitment to regular lengthy beat-off sessions over a long period of tiem, in other words, long-term practice-- masturbation has never positively impacted my use that I know of-- and I am interested in establishing a new frame and/or practice set that reverses the trend of physical deteroriation and pathology I have always associated with regular/chronic masturbation
  • I would like to release violent symbols in all usages from my lexicon. Violence is the primary cause of trauma on earth, trauma being the number one if not only cause of dysfunction within animals and associations of animals. My opinions. "Beating off" is the most natural term I know for masturbation, and it is clearly violent, self-evidently so. A more sophisticated practice could help me overcome my penchant to use this and other violent metaphors.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
More problem areas I'm looking at in a more general frame than approach alone. (Sidenote: sharing the following here is momentous to me, as it signals the first occassion on which I have been completely honest and transparent with this community.)

One. PTSD-precipitated chronic absenteeism, PTSD-precipitated familial delinquency, PTSD-precipitated chronic penury or dependence on others to pay the bills. I'm not self-sufficient and have only been in short windows throughout adulthood. Rest of list are self-explanitory but two additional sub-points. 1- PTSD is from withdrawal syndrom (causing pain in my sineses that literally drives me crazy-- will try a sinus spray for first time ever this month jesus christ already) from SSRI medication. It says on the bottle under the warning label that SSRI's can induce psychosis. I'm here to tell you they do. and these internal psychic states cause trauma of a chronic nature even after resuming medicine. My withdrawal, wihich I've drawn out as long as four and a half (4 + 1/2) years at one time, is charactarized by extreme anxiety, extreme depression, and a mental psychosis that involves a cumpulsion to harm self and, during one episode a long time ago, others (neither ever acted upon, gratefully). 2- Forgot two for the momnet

Two. Can't do impersinations. Roleplays of the innocent, playful variety are out. This is HUGE for me. I may have brought it up elsewhere. Before the major traumas of childhood began in 6th grade, I used to do impersinations and characters. A few things in particular took this gift away from me. I NEVER impersinate anymore. I also never shout in public other than while playing or coaching soccer. Being goofy is something I have lost my bearings on completely. When I'm alone I still do it, whether by impersinating or dancing or freestyle rhyming. I can't do any of these things in public. How do I begin to get this back? I will need to force it at first. Caviat: I do not want to act like a pompus ass, and I think I used to be that way. Sure, I was ten when I used to goof around. But I'm like developmentally retarded socially and emotionally. (But not on autism spectrum!) Sidenote: I am a very funny person and have a lot of laughter with people I feel safe around, including girls.

Three. Oversharing and monopolizing the conversation. This is due to being emotionally sidetracked as a young person and a parent who has this trait. It's self-explanitory. It's tolerated by people who love me, but it makes it impedes the expansion of the circle of such folks for sure. It's also a seduction turn off for sure. Related: knowing when to stop something fun with an expiration.

Four. Knowing when to stop something fun with an expiration. (Gave it its own list item.) This is due to being emotionally sidetracked as well. Fear losing control once I get started and that I lack impulse-control. Holds me back from getting involved in fun when fun is being had. I just avoid fun situations, essentially. I wait for more conversation. Role plays are out. Can't let go. Afraid of over-doing it. This being said, I'm getting more still and more self-aware. I spent a month in a household with young kids and never engaged with them unless they engaged with me, for the most part. I explored some of my sillier personality traits and always maintained a centered disposition- 100%. Seems transferable to adults.

Five. Roleplays are out. Mentioned already, but deserving its own point. The roleplay I'm talking about is what you see in a lot of porn these days, often between step siblings, often precipitating sex. Wait, alwyas precipitating sex. Need help with this desperately. It's the situational game I want, i.e., I want to engage with women I have just met in a fun-loving, play-centered capacity. I want that more then getting laid.

Six. Shutting down assholes and bullies. For the longest, this has been simply impossible. I feel like I walk through life waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I have learned to mask my suffering when someone attacks me for some reason. I have also learned how to deflect and avoid. But the skill I'm looking for is tying bullies and aggressors up in burlap and sending them into orbit. I think gaining access to the part of my mind that can come up with witty rejoinders to put-downs is one and the same as what comes up with verbal game. I'm having breakthroughs in both areas. I think, however, that I need to go further. I trust myself to do so because of the breakthrough of realizing I'm a gentle, kind person. Compassion has always come naturally for me; I am exrtremely sensetive. People have always taken advantage. I should carry a very big loaded "gun of wit" at all times. I should be in the workshop 24/7 until it's built and then never forget to leave home without it. When it's built, I'm going to metaphorically slay! I know I'm making progress. Brings tears to my eyes.

Seven. Slavery to emotions. I've had breakthroughs recently, elsewhere discussed, in my relationship with emotions, especially anger, rage and fear. Of note (down a rabit hole) is the fact that I identify as a Three with a Four wing on the Enneagram. They are both in the emotions triad (one of three the other two being thinking and intuition). I recently realized I was a THREE with Four wing as apposed to FIVE with Four wing. Emotion centered individuals are past-oriented. Fives, head-oriented, are supposed to think about plans, fantasies, concepts and the like: future-oriented. (Gut-centered/intuitives are focused on employing coping mechanisms to avoid the present.) Threes and Fours (and Twos) are focused on STORIES. I just now got this distincition. I have a book I've been devouring again (I first read it about nine years back) that applies a bunch of development models to the Enneagram (The Wisdom of The Enneagram), and this stuff is helping me really figure out where thinking ends and emotion begins, and visa versa. (Leaving the rabit hole.) Threes are supposed to be the most out of touch with their emotions of any of the types, counterintuitively. I take this to another level due to some schizophrenic tendancies which amount to flashbacks accompanied by sinister psychic state transcending emotion. Flashbacks are like a compound emotion, like an identification with something beyond self. They are really trauma-inducing and debilitating. Somehow, I've disciphered the components of the flashbacks (read: me being posessed by a fucking living demon) and subsequently have come up with a practice that is helping spacing the flashbacks out more; and helping getting in touch with my own, actual emotions. This is not so easy as it seems for me, at least. I have to focus 100 percent to do it, but doing so enables me to pinpoint an emotion I'm having or just had. In the case of the flashbacks, I have successfully pinpointed the stuck emotions with regard to the life-context of the flashback. I think the flashback is at least partly dependent upon my carrying this emotion forward-- failing to resolve it, in other words. For example, I recently flashed back to a moment six years ago out on a soccer pitch playing pickup ball. I felt disturbed and distressed to the extreme. I stuck with the memory, first recalling in its entirety what was actually going on. I was engaged in an outdoor athletic activity, period. Then I thought about what emotions within me related to the activity of playing soccer then and now. The biggest one that came up was disappointment-- disappointment that I didn't get as far as I always believed I could have. Somehow going through this process replaced the trauma-inducing feelings with a sense of comfort and well-being. It's painful stuff, but I see that I need to be proactive with it. I need to check in with my emotional state at least once every waking hour. By the way, the flashback thing it only happens while I have the sinus pain. The flashbacks go hand in hand with the sinus pain. Truly bizaar stuff.

Eight. Miserliness. I've lost friends and turned off plenty of potential friends due to being a miser. It's self explanatary but a very complicated complex to unravel indeed, and obviously impacts seduction to a high degree. The biggest thing I've come up with so far is to let go of FOMO (Fear of missing out). Low self-esteem has made this very, very difficult for me. Big improvements in the past year-plus. There are plenty of free/no-cost activities out there. The second biggest thing is not caring how much money I have. I've gotten pretty adept at caring not an ounce if I am broke, and not asking parents for money when I am. One thing that was huge in overcoming fear of not having money, surprisingly, was mastering he art of fasting. For both the miser and a chronic binge eater, this is a great skill. To illustrate, I recently did a trip involving a full day of travel both ways. I didn't have any cash I wanted to spend. So I fasted. No biggie. But I still overextend. Need more growth in this area.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
More on "end-gaining".

The term is coined by F.M. Alexander and relates to my view of seduction as a "practice to get laid" and women as "objects toward that end." These are perverted approaches to my natural environment to be sure. Yet insofar as they reflect reality to an extent instruction in seducton along these ends can lead to success on a case by case basis leading to literacy in seduction. This is the literacy I percieve in Chase Amante's keystone teaching, which I have always thought of as "act before you think." The topic of "ends justifying the means" was introduced to me in social studies and then brought up in one or two of my philosophy courses in college. It's such a different question when one considers the human body and its perspective in absolute isolation. What I mean by that, is that each of us is literally a case study. With that introduction to the topic of this post I can frame my progress of late a bit.

In doing that, I want to describe two experience I had today. Prefatory to that, to clarify what I'm currently doing to get better at seductoin, I want to share that currently I am not studying tactics here. I consume a lot of cinema and contemporary porn, though. And what I have been practicing is this practice of imagining approaching (and doing other things that scare me) and the rejection by the imaginary person I approach directed toward myself.

With that background, experience one- I was watching porn and this chick is sitting in bed with her skirt hiked up, legs straight out in front of her. She says (or the subtitles say), "I'm a virgin." Holder of the camera says, "You're kidding me." (I think its supposed be step-siblings.) "Yes, really," she rejoins. "Will you take my virginity for me." So far so good, everyone is following along right? Well here's where my mind explodes.

The man behind the camera says, "Sure, I will do this, but you have to do something for me first." "What?" she asks. "Give me a blowjob," he says. She shrugs and says, "Okay, I guess so." Now, what I was thinking was, what I would have said was, "Yes, ok, I will have sex with you, no problem. Now?" Please wait for the sharing of the second experience for me to share my emotional response/why my head exploded here and how it relates to end-gaining.

Cut to new shot directly above chick, looking down at her from just below the shoulders up. She says, "Does it have to be through the shirt?" The man behind the camera says, "Yes." Then a little red or pink colored round-tipped thing I hadn't noticed at first moves forward from the bottom of the frame toward her mouth. It is connected to a cock which is placed beneath the girl's shirt, which is scrunched up jjust below her neck. She takes the cock in her mouth and begins to suck it.

Experience two- I went to a college library today. It's a community college near my house. Campus is dead. Very few people around to observe and interact with. I just walked a couple corridors and sat in the library working on my computer and reading. It has an open layout and pretty small so you could observe everyone present pretty easily. This included three workers and five other people, all college aged up to perhaps 30. I spent most of the time in a state of awe about something I'm noticing about myself, increasingly, little by little. It's the first of two minds states i want to describe in the library. And that is, I think about the sexuality of others as if it is something I could get to know intimately, presently. In other words, every man and woman I encountered in that library was someone I could rip the clothes off of and penetrate with my dick, anally, vaginally or orally. It's not wondering if it's going to happen, and it's not evaluating any of the individuals, though there is of course recognition of degrees of attractiveness from my subjective point of view. It's merely the observaton of the bodies and the clothes covering them, and it's doing that separately.

This really blows my mind folks. It's so deconstructionist. "An animal with fabric thrown on and around it. The fabric is xyz, the animal is vwx. The animal is ready for a cock," or, "The animal will not approach," or, "the animal is too young for a cock," etc., are thoughts you have to be a real Michael Foucault to construct-- and they are coming to me naturally these days-- but I don't have them under all internal conditions. More on this in a moment. What comes to mind, then, is that I'm growing in ability to percieve without judging, and the presence of all that is human, i.e., good and pure, including accurate perception, is welling up within the non-jjudging, non-sociopathic animal entity that is me (thank god I'm not a sociopath; that would be horrible I'm guessing.).

Fear of the opposite occuring is why it's been so hard for me to practice radical acceptance, which I've known since I first learned about judging and accepting, opposing forces, it would seem. "If I accept (stop judging the shit out of tattoes, I'll get one;" or, "If I accept that I masturbate a lot, I'll never stop, and it is harming me to a certain degree." I've been working hard on this, and dropping some form of judgments has led to a vacuum, just as expected. But good things seem to be filling the vacuum. It's also being filled by a reality I couldn't see before, that of deconstruction of the illusions of our contemporary society. And, counterintuitively, while dropping my laundry list of usually sexuality-rooted evaluations, I am free to see the sexuality of both those I find attractive and don't, in a full-throated and visceral, head-jerking sort of way. In summary, it is utterly bizaar being an animal in society abstracted from animal needs. None of us needed to bang at the library. But we were all equipped to do so-- because we are fucking animals (!!!).

I also find it remarkable that others around me may have this awareness or can be granted it by none other than myself if I approach them in a manner enabling them to do so, and that, secondly, I have always objectified others and myself, completely blinding myself to my and all of our animal nature and reality. This is the exact edge of my learning/development right now, because, finally returning to to the mind-blowing part of "experience one" above, as soon as i think about how I might go about approaching a person I want to tap into the sexuality of for my own pleasure, I find myself outside of this enlightened state of mind. What was mind blowing was that the chick's steb brother had the presence of mind to make the whole thing playful and innocent and in a word, safe or unthreatening for the person opening themself up to him. I think I check out and begin to "perform" instead of continuing the connection on the sexual plain as he does in the video.

This is end-gaining. End-gaining is checking out and just "doing" whatever presents itself to be done. The opposite is called by Alexander, "constructive conscious control," which is mostly synonymous with the performance of a thing without undue tension. (According to Alexander, in complex society in which artificial machines and impliments are common-place, universal and ubiquitous, the body uses a different set of skillful means than that in what has been termed by him "savage." Savage is pejjorative in modern usage. I don't think it was for Alexander or Nietzsche. Both assert that habits (associated with being fluent in civil society) take "years" or "are a matter of development over one generation," respectively. It boggles my mind that so many individuals and groups organize themselves around the belief that depending on your ethnic geneology with regards to the advent of or introduction into the industrial age, you can be characterized as subhuman, but that's the reality we live in. So fucking sad, so destructive, so wrong. Anyway, Alexander points out that habits developed over a course of years are rarely overcome, period, and that we lack scensory powers with which to do so, because our sense-perceptions are corrupted by the habits themselves. The upshot is that curbing habits of body, which he refers to as "use" (as in "use of a knife," "use of the self" (the title of one of his books btw)), i.e., correcting incorrect use, depends upon engaging the mind in a process that is complex and requires extreme or total concentration, and leads to the perception that "something is wrong" when finally achieved.

The result, is, however, improved use, the release of undue tension comensurate with the stage of development present in the organism, and, as the topic of this post suggests, cessation of end-gaining. It should be obvious to anyone who is learning seductoin-- or who has fought through nerves to approach and found themsleves to be less than skillful when they finally did-- that the body and the practice of seduction have this analogue in how they may be approached. On the one hand, there is end-gaining. On the other, there is constructive conscious control. Alexander Technique does not have a monopoly on this. And I'm not really applying it to my seduction practice, though I am using it to moderate and curb certain social habits I use not specifically related to approach. (More on how this is done below), and this and other practices for body and mind are helping me release tension resulting in general anxiety and fidgiting that get in the way of approach. The alternative to using a mental process, as in the Alexander Technique to learning coordination where it does not exist in orriginal form, is breaking the process of whatever activity is being learned into its individual parts and studying or practicing them in isolation, slowly. It's how piano and soccer are learned. Slow way down, do the movements one at a time, over and over and over.

There is an interesting duality involved in most contemporary activity, where the question "does the means justify the ends" is concerned, and we each posess a laboratory for determination, example by example, within us. Namely our bodies. On the one hand, tension resulting from a fun activity is ok because it goes away when we die. On the other, we hurt while we are still alive as a result. On the one hand, we can obtain wives through hideous, painful approach of one or more women. On the other, we never master our fears or sexuality unless we approach enough to master them before tying that knot. So, end-gaining, an unskillful, unconscious, uncoordinated means with regards to approaching, is dualistic in nature. And within the mind of a man who is applying to his approach practice habitual end-gaining, much pain is guaranteed.

Constructive conscious control of the individual, also the title of one of Alexander's books, is both a process and a goal. In my words and as I understand it, Alexander suggests there is a ground, or substrate, and there is the activity taking place in the same. When both the ground and the action are in harmony with the apparatus being used to attain a certain end, the individual can be said constructively, consciously in control. One does not need this to gain literacy in seduction, in many cases. (And in turn the gift of literacy in this art can be absolutely life-changing and probably is for most people.) But Alexander also describes the erosive effects of education if through educaton one develops periferal habits that cause dysfunction-- which approach may or may not present/produce as a matter of a typical course toward mastery), and more germain to this post, that when one is engaged in something for which one is ill-prepared, "The methods of training, etc., actually lead to complications, in consequence of the numerous specific atempts whic are made to remedy the many defects or shortcomings which are recognized in the cild's efforts, most of which defects, however, would not have manifested themselves if the child's psycho-physical functionin had been satisfactory when it entered the school (part 3 section 1 of Constructive Conscious Control of the Indicidual by F.M. Alexander)." This in relation to teaching a child how to write, by the way.

I am not knocking Chase. He knows how to write and I do not. I am calling for a space for or means whereby remediation can take place. Advice, suggestions, practices for such remediation are scattered throughout Girls Chase, I'm not even saying they are lacking. I am simply offering my experience that I am in need of the remediation of overcoming self-hatred, and that I have been working on that and will continue to do so. In relation to seduction, I think self-love or reduction or elimination of self-hate, works on our ability to percieve opportunities-- where I currently stand, my "learning edge",-- in such a way as to create more satisfactory conditions for learning seduction. And I'm describing a state of percieving my authentic nature and potential in relation to seduction in a way I never have before, as experienced today in the library.

What came next, and what happened while watching that porno, a feeling of bondage and impotence, is the result of trying to carry out an instruction using uncounscious means, or, put another way, returned me to a state of self-hate. I felt inadiquate, impotent, and totally petriied. Why? There is a fork in the road. I could try to use a gambit or some other means of seducing the female I was attracted to based in tactics and strategies I've encountered through Girls Chase. That's not me; I'm the ill-prepared pupil, the one, as Alexander puts it, "functioning nearer to its minimum than its maximum." The other option seems to continue working on my practice of self-accceptance and visualizatoins of approaching and being rejected until when I think of approaching I do not feel afraid.

That's what I'm going to do. That and continue watching porn. But learning tactics from porn or here are only part of the work. I will share more about visualizations in another post even though I say above that I would get more into the practice I'm doing with them here. Sorry, this just feels complete.

I will also discuss exactly how the Alexander Technique works exactly in another post, if I'm feeling ambitious. Suffice it to say there are multiple ways to skin a cat.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Big, big breakthrough, I think.

This is an exchange I had in the Chat Section of the forum 24 hours ago. I can already tell that this time this advice, which I have directly recieved via Chat here in the past, has sunk in and is going to change my approach to approach permanently. And as you will see if you read through to the bolded, italicized text, I almost wasn’t open enough to receive the advice being presented (!). I'm extremely gald "User A" ignored the question I kept trying to pose for reasons that will become clear if you read on.

The full exchange is pasted, including a bit of rambling I do before getting to any type of question/problem statement, which I include because it's kind of entertaining and has some actually relevant material for my journal thread. Below the copy/pasted chat string my reflections and why this exchange constitutes a pretty big bit of progress to me. I changed others' usernames to grant anonymity to them.

PrancingRabbit: ran out of steam with a blog post I was working on. Have been doing a lot of thought intensive writing projects and created something big over last two days...
PrancingRabbit: Been doing long-winded posts in journaling section Yesterday at 8:18 PM
PrancingRabbit: hello GC world Yesterday at 8:18 PM
PrancingRabbit: Not sure if I have anything constructive to share but some reason felt compelled to reach out Yesterday at 8:18 PM
PrancingRabbit: I started wearing sports jackets and exclusively collared shirts. Wear loose-fitting jeans with belt, and either brown shoes or nice sneaks Yesterday at 8:19 PM
User A: What we really care about are the most seduction-efficacious applications of any tech or understanding. To me it all falls under the larger bucket of verbal game anyway, with all of it being specific for seduction contexts Yesterday at 8:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: Keeping hair around ears and nape trimmed Yesterday at 8:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: Cool... Yesterday at 8:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: So...have noticed HUGE change in attention I receive from women since fashion adustment Yesterday at 8:21 PM
PrancingRabbit: Right... Well... Yesterday at 8:21 PM
PrancingRabbit: In this case, my new understanding is that women attract attention through what they wear Yesterday at 8:21 PM
PrancingRabbit: And men can too Yesterday at 8:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: I've always tried to be casual and approachable for everyone Yesterday at 8:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: Never have felt comfortable wearing edgy stuff, jewelery, torn jeans. Or getting edgy heircuts. But if you dress up in a way that comes off as dressed up/high-end professional or otherwise dressed up... Yesterday at 8:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: that is exponentially more sexy/seductive/attractive to women than casual attire Yesterday at 8:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: Went from dressing up a little when I go to the bars to wearing sports coats and collared shirts 100 percent of time in the house and out Yesterday at 8:23 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yesterday at 8:23 PM
PrancingRabbit: The breakthrough was precipitated by determining that I would wear collared shirts I hadn't ironed. Can't get myself to iron shirts Yesterday at 8:24 PM
PrancingRabbit: Damn, women are just on high alert when they interact with me Yesterday at 8:25 PM
PrancingRabbit: I need a practice for coming up with sexual innuendos, or in other words puns and metaphors Yesterday at 8:26 PM
PrancingRabbit: Never think of them "live" or spontaneously Yesterday at 8:26 PM
PrancingRabbit: Also noticed in my first approach in a longish time yesterday that I am outcome rather than process focused Yesterday at 8:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: Focus on my desire/getting a date or in the pants Yesterday at 8:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: rather than what she wants to hear Yesterday at 8:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: Thinas about her, things about what I have to offer her Yesterday at 8:27 PM
User A: Okay another example of some verbals that can be used post-hook/during immersion Yesterday at 8:28 PM
PrancingRabbit: Just went straight to "How about a date?" after saying You are beautiful Yesterday at 8:28 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yeah, the hook was the ask Yesterday at 8:29 PM
PrancingRabbit: Oh I just responded to my own statement lol Yesterday at 8:30 PM
PrancingRabbit: Practicing some hypnosis states without realizing it though Yesterday at 8:30 PM
User A: "You know, I’m wondering something about you. Since we began talking, honestly I’ve gotten this vibe from you, like you’re the open-minded and nonjudgemental type of person who sometimes connects really genuinely with other people at a deep level, like you’re someone who is able to step out of the frame of your own mind and understand how people are feeling. Have you ever noticed that about yourself or has anyone ever told you that before?” Yesterday at 8:30 PM
PrancingRabbit: Issuing commands Yesterday at 8:31 PM
PrancingRabbit: Ok User A Yesterday at 8:31 PM
PrancingRabbit: That is flattering and draws her in by drawing her out Yesterday at 8:31 PM
User A: So open mindedness and nonjudgmental frames set, things she will like, making it about HER, and advantageous for seduction Yesterday at 8:32 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yes on those frames Yesterday at 8:32 PM
User A: Next can follow with something like Yesterday at 8:32 PM
PrancingRabbit: I exude judgment and condemnation Yesterday at 8:32 PM
User A: "Okay cool, like that’s what I was kinda noticing about you… so now, I’m wondering something else too… since you’re this type of person who sometimes connects really genuinely with certain people, maybe of course with the type of person who really takes the effort to get to know you at a deep level… like for more than just your body or as if you’re just a sexual object like so many other guys do these days… with that type of person who you feel really understands you, have you ever noticed how sometimes a strong connection can develop really quickly because of how right it feels?" Yesterday at 8:33 PM
PrancingRabbit: Just kidding Yesterday at 8:34 PM
PrancingRabbit: Reading this Yesterday at 8:34 PM
PrancingRabbit: Talking about connection = connection? Yesterday at 8:34 PM
PrancingRabbit: Actually, at the end there, there is an invitation for or segue into a sexual innuendo, right? Yesterday at 8:35 PM
User A: Now adding in some self-points and introducing sexual frame, which should have also been implicit through sexual projection at this stage - we are escalating the vibe some and working it in an efficient direction. She is also going to be agreeing and googaly eyed, compliance is going up through this too. Then can continue like: Yesterday at 8:36 PM
PrancingRabbit: "How right WHAT feels?" for example Yesterday at 8:36 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yeah, the sexual frame, wtf?! Yesterday at 8:36 PM
PrancingRabbit: i.e., how the fuck? Yesterday at 8:36 PM
PrancingRabbit: Verbally, it's way above my pay grade Yesterday at 8:37 PM
PrancingRabbit: I'm like a three year old hitting puberty way ahead of schedule Yesterday at 8:37 PM
PrancingRabbit: I become self-conscious and paranoid I will "get in trouble" Yesterday at 8:38 PM
PrancingRabbit: "People are watching, keep it above board" and so-on Yesterday at 8:38 PM
PrancingRabbit: Meanwhile I maintain objectification of her in my head Yesterday at 8:38 PM
PrancingRabbit: "She's that and I can't attain" Yesterday at 8:39 PM
PrancingRabbit: "that" to be italicized Yesterday at 8:39 PM
User A: "Yeah, like have you ever noticed that if it’s the right kind of vibe, and you’re talking with each other, staring in each other’s eyes, hearing each other’s voice, and feeling each other’s presences, that sometimes that vibe just gets stronger and stronger and maybe even so strong that it feels like there’s this urge inside of your body, like you know that this person is different and someone you’re able to feel vulnerable with, someone you feel safe with, and someone who you can be your true self with without any judgement?" Yesterday at 8:39 PM
PrancingRabbit: "True self with...." I see Yesterday at 8:40 PM
User B: nice Yesterday at 8:40 PM
PrancingRabbit: I'm listening but want to interject Yesterday at 8:40 PM
PrancingRabbit: But if you are not done Yesterday at 8:40 PM
PrancingRabbit: My point was going to be if the "turn" toward sex frame is desired can we just make a pun or allude to something's connection with the sexual? Yesterday at 8:41 PM
User A: Thanks User B Yesterday at 8:41 PM
PrancingRabbit: randomly, as it were Yesterday at 8:41 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yes thank you User B Yesterday at 8:41 PM
User A: She says yes of course, liminality is high, lots of frames being set. From there can go: Yesterday at 8:41 PM
User A: "Right, and if there’s a feeling like this, now doesn’t it also make sense that sometimes that vibe can keep growing and growing between each other because of how right it feels? Like you feel good, you feel powerful, you may even feel completely comfortable in your own skin, and suddenly, you realize that this is also the type of person that isn’t like the other fuckboys at the bars who will grope you and treat you like a piece of meat, or even the type of guy who stands against the wall on his phone and never comes and talks to you no matter how many times you look over, no, this is the type of guy who you can tell will be completely focused on you because he sees what makes you special, what makes you you, and takes a real personal interest in understanding you beyond the surface level… I mean, that’s something my friend Jada always tells me those are all things she never can find in a guy but really likes, is that true with you too?" Yesterday at 8:42 PM
User A: So now we can go deeper into sexual prizing and so forth Yesterday at 8:43 PM
PrancingRabbit: I mean User A Yesterday at 8:43 PM
PrancingRabbit: Thank you User A Yesterday at 8:43 PM
PrancingRabbit: Hi User B lol Yesterday at 8:43 PM
PrancingRabbit: Hmmm... Yesterday at 8:43 PM
User A: I like doing things like this and find they're high percentage - hope that helps to illustrate what I was talking about. Different strokes for different folks though of course Yesterday at 8:43 PM
PrancingRabbit: Sexual prizing as in... Yesterday at 8:44 PM
PrancingRabbit: I can see this working. It's captivating in the sense that she is the focus of everything you are saying Yesterday at 8:44 PM
PrancingRabbit: And meanwhile it is building to a segue Yesterday at 8:45 PM
PrancingRabbit: Makes the ground fertile for it Yesterday at 8:45 PM
PrancingRabbit: The whole pun thing is making the ground fertile too. These things are similar if not the same in that once you introduce the potential for something (italicized) to be framed sexually, it is implied that frame can be moved around "us" Yesterday at 8:46 PM
PrancingRabbit: I am a sensitive and highly sexual person Yesterday at 8:47 PM
PrancingRabbit: But afraid of using/applying the frame Yesterday at 8:47 PM
PrancingRabbit: And I laugh like a donkey when others introduce it with puns, etc. Yesterday at 8:47 PM
PrancingRabbit: Would you see a pun as a "shortcut" or shorthand of your gambit, User A? Yesterday at 8:48 PM
PrancingRabbit: Regardless, it makes sense to me and I hadn't seen that before....and am not capable of the pun game Yesterday at 8:49 PM
PrancingRabbit: Perhaps I had not actually been open to the introduction of the frame Yesterday at 8:50 PM
PrancingRabbit: period Yesterday at 8:50 PM
PrancingRabbit: I am asking myself, "can I see myself going through that in a conversation with a hot girl?" Yesterday at 8:51 PM
PrancingRabbit: And again, back to sexual prizing, the next step you have mentioned Yesterday at 8:51 PM
PrancingRabbit: It's like, "Well, I have a great technique for eating pussy," or something like that> Yesterday at 8:51 PM
PrancingRabbit: ? Yesterday at 8:52 PM
PrancingRabbit: Only the most extreme things surface in my mind, such as that Yesterday at 8:52 PM
PrancingRabbit: Or abrupt, if we are not going to call using the word "pussy" extreme in the context of seduction (!!!) Yesterday at 8:52 PM
PrancingRabbit: Will read an article, how about that? And report back Yesterday at 8:53 PM
PrancingRabbit: I am open to trying this, User A. Yesterday at 8:55 PM
PrancingRabbit: Approach, hook, use this conceptual frame of the interaction, being sure to allude to the female friend who complains men are either objectifying her, selfish in bed, or both Yesterday at 8:56 PM
PrancingRabbit: And the core message is relaxing and openness around and to those who aren't judging you or objectifying you but attempting to understand and engage with you as a "real" person Yesterday at 8:58 PM
PrancingRabbit: And there is comparison in there to guys who are missing on both sides-- either unable to get over fear of approach/engage to begin with, and those who feel entitled to your body jjust because you are present/in the same space with them Yesterday at 8:59 PM
PrancingRabbit: Meanwhile, suggesting openness for creating meaning independently of sex/sexuality Yesterday at 8:59 PM
PrancingRabbit: While presenting the possibility of a sexual frame by pointing out the obvious that this dynamic arises when there is openness between individuals who connect authentically Yesterday at 9:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: Lots of allusion to physical and emotional contact on top of all. This is fucking good...! Yesterday at 9:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: Ok, and it's open-ended Yesterday at 9:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: And the girl can choose to entertain more or keep engaging Yesterday at 9:01 PM
PrancingRabbit: And in the end, there is no commitment to more than just "what happens now, here/tonight" Yesterday at 9:01 PM

I kept rambling a bit more but that was the meat of this exchange I wanted to share. This exchange is remarkable to me and momentous because it is the first time since beginning with Girls Chase and indeed ever, period, that I have recieved and been able to see myself utilizing, by way of plugging into a larger system or scheme of seduction, advice from others. The essence of the frame is to view girls as human, not objects. It's so simple and it's been staring me in the face this whole fucking time! I can see that when trying to apply specific aspects of strategy or even sexual frame itself, unless I understood the essence of the frame and what that specifically is, and am able to focus on that and that above or superior to everything else, I'm not going to achieve the frame in an intentional and reliale way when I approach.

I grasped intuitively that there is something lacking or stuck in me emotionally that cuts me off from the part of myself that communicates on a sexual level and, inversely, I have always believed on an intellectual level that women and men are equal, opposite poles of a single entitiy, if you will, and not deserving of or benefitted through my objectification. I’ve done quite a bit of reading and have learned theoretical concepts such as phases of an approach interaction; strategy related to sharing specific things about oneself such as, “I am great in bed” (sexual prizing I believe) that turn girls on; and Gunwhich's three-fold aspects of sexual frame-- in my words-- openness, autonomy and social status preservation. But the frame itself, girls are real, not objects, eluded me. Shit, Guwich is actually articulating the understanding of the needs and uniqueness of each woman in his three-fold aspects of the frame too, isn't he? I couldn't see it! Now I see it and feel like I could maintain that focus above all else, and keystone of all other growth in seduction. So keystone that this will be my primary focus from here on out. I have placed this concept of sexual frame in the correct place within my thinking about or imagined scenarios (fantasies) re: approach.

I had it all backwards (but necessarily so due to the things I came here with, which I am going to summarize in a moment) insofar as I was throwing individual, disparate pieces of a puzzle like darts at a wall with no dartboard hanging on it. I’d be thinking, “Ok, girls want to be seen as open and courageous and are at the same time socially risk-averse” but still focusing on a gestalt that did not include an actual, real human being connected to all these disjointed, rambling thoughts. Such are necessary to understand but adjunct to rather than generative of frame, ultimately. That habit, the running in circles of throwing around random-seeming tactics and advice, was tantamount to beholding a bare plaster wall with no dartboard and no darts like I was about to play a cricket set. The dartboard is the actual female, and before the bartender hands over any darts, she is going to need to know that respect that dart board and know what the rules consist of: that the board is not merely an object to me. (Boy, I've selected a pretty violent metaphor, I suddenly realize!)

This insight is coming as I turn a corner with relation to my self-frame, from one of disparagement and self-pity toward self, to one of acceptance and gratefulness to be alive, to be loved by others, to be learning anything at all. It’s no one’s fault but mine (fault not being the right concept to begin with quite, perhaps) that I couldn’t get a handle on this thing before. I had to work through some really difficult, really serious problems before I could do so. That work and the related pains and breakthroughs is what I’ve been journaling about primarily, and will continue to. (Indeed as of this present writing, I have another pretty long and deep/profound post about 3/4 complete.) If you don't belive this, I can share that two years back, I recieved the explanation of the sexual frame User A shared last night, verbatim, or nearly so, from another user in a chat exchange on GC. I have tried to explain above how I experienced the advice last night, and I am 100 percent sure the difference now and then, when I recieved the very same suggestion, has to do with my preparedness to receive this advice through the work I have since done to develop self-acceptance and inner peace and serenity. This work has been excruciating at times, but it's worth it as long as I start getting laid regularly as a result.

And now for an anecdote from today that illustrates the shift I’ve just experienced as a result of the exchange shared above. I went onto a college campus today for work, and it was like a ghost town-- but of the several females who walked past me or whom I walked by, I had very serious conversations in my head about my mental and emotional preparedness to create a sexual frame in an interaction with each. It was an intimidating prospect, to be sure, and one I ultimately did not take on…for today. But I’m standing in front of a wall with a dart board hanging on it with darts in my hand. I don’t believe I’ve ever approached a girl with an organized, accurate idea in my head of what could or should happen in a reasonable seduction sequence, what actual phases will be trapsed through by me in a possilble lead-up to a sexual encounter. Seeing the essence of the sexual frame and feeling as if I wasn't prepared to put it into action today, for a variety of reasons that don't require explaining here, I had the correct conversation in my head. Instead of, "Comeon pussy, if not now, when? Oh my god I fucking can't think of anything to say right now. Shit, never can. I hate myself." I thought, approximately, "Dang. If I approach her with the intention of setting a sexual frame, what would I say to open? Not sure, can't think about this now. Will circle back and approach someone very soon though!"

I’ve had plenty of girlfriends, including several really good ones, a lot of sex, relatively-- and zero success in real seduction. I feel genuinely poised to change that, and think it's gonna be happening in fits and starts most likely, soon. I’m not being hard on myself or overly critical. I’m just being real as I report that I believe I’m turning the second big corner of my journey into the heart of seduction. The first being the excruciatingly hard, slow inner work of cultivation of self acceptance and positive outlook on life.

I have verbiage I can use today that I can bring to relationships with women I am attracted to sexually, and a frame of mind within myself that enables me to embody, nascently for now, the ideals I have always held as true regarding the equality of the sexes. Again, this is due to realizing that in practice, I was still viewing women as objects, and that unless I am communicating basically all of the points User A shares with me above when I approach a woman for sex, one way or another, then I am stuck projecting the old, shallow reality to her. And if we connect at all it will only be because she sees through me and/or chooses to overlook my male outlook syndrom (M.O.S.- coined right here, today, by me, fellas). (It has happened and will again, but a girl's falling in love with you in spite of your MOS does not a seducer make you.

As for the puns, I am laughing hard at how I tried to insist User A explain to me how to use metaphore whilst he was trying to literally hand me the keys to the kingdom last night. I will continue to work on them, but I see formulating them as secondary and now know that unless I got this complex, reality-driven frame down, the puns won't come to begin with because I just don't get the meaning and point of them.

It may be that there are plenty of men who can provide a sexual frame and objectify women as well at the same time, but I am not that person. I needed something deeper; and now I have it. Much to reflect on; more work to be done. I’m getting close to approaching a lot, methinks! Most of all, gratitude to User A, Girls Chase, and everyone here doing their own work to become master of the approach. Peace out.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Big, big breakthrough, I think.
...The essence of the [sexual] frame is to view girls as human, not objects.
I hasten to interject (can you interject in your own thread?) immediately after publishing the quoted post, and before anything else happens here that this statement is not mutually exclusive with my philosophical statement in an earlier post above that "the essence of seduction is masturbation." Ok, good luck finding that (other, overly long-winded) post, and I'm signing off for the night now!


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
On seeking benefit rather than deterioration through approach- the why and the how.

What exactly is the difference between the three types of remedial action that appear to me to be the most potent in terms of enabling me to accept and love myself— the mind and body work, the visualizations, a form of cognitive behavior therapy, discussed in past posts in some detail and hopefully more after this, and cessation of prejudices, not yet discussed by me here— to get a benefit from putting some practical techniques and tactics to use in approach without "lead[ing] to complications"?

Firstly, and of, perhaps, primary importance in connection with a forum on seduction, what type of complications are we talking about, in my case? I will share two stories related to this questions and then address the question posed in the last paragraph.

Story one. Perhaps three years ago, I was around 38 years old, I went into a retail clothing store and approached a worker outside of a dressing room. At the time I was immersed in Girls Chase through the reading of articles and interacting with members on this forum. I was in a “cold patch” and eager to score or get a number. I had just an interaction through one of my threads in which someone gave me advice along the lines of, “You are over thinking it, and a simple shortcut in seduction that will short-circuit your over-thinking, is to grasp a girl with whom you are interacting and insert your tongue in her mouth,” in the context of day game. I asked the employee of the clothing store I encountered if she would come into my dressing room with me to fool around a little.

She said no. Perhaps I did not ask in a confident enough way, I thought to myself. Perhaps I need to be more assertive, I thought. Thinking of the advice I had received, I took the girl by the hand and pulled her toward the dressing room we were standing in front of. She pulled away violently and rushed away. In a state of pretty severe destress— feeling humiliated and ashamed— and exited at the same time, I tried on some pants inside the dressing room. Upon exiting the room, I was met by two employees and asked to leave the store and never return for “assaulting” the other employee. I said, “I did not assault her!” with a bright red face, and agreed to leave and not come back, which I did. (I returned to the store and was not detected months later. I’m not a punk ass bitch.)

Story two. This story has repeated itself more times than I care to admit. I seduce a woman in hopes of bedding her without conveying that is my end-goal and only end-goal, and in the process of repeatedly bedding said woman subsequently, inadvertently causes her to think we are boyfriend and girlfriend. I’ve gone as far as spending two years with women in this category multiple times, living with them, nearly getting engaged to them, the whole nine yards. The result is always that their hearts wind up being broken, which is of course horrible.

Story one is the most extreme version of the creepy, aggressive guy I have, but I’ve played the role so many times I can’t even count them all. I have played the role of creep in many different ways, this being only one of them. And I have probably lost ground every time I have engaged with women in such a manner and gained nothing whatsoever. It is not the fault of the advice given here or those who gave it. I’ve never seen unsound advice here. It’s my fault.

Story two is an example of seduction leading to deterioration due to applying an overall shit strategy as the result of lacking confidence in ability to execute tactics related to a more desirable (um… less undesirable) outcome, starting toxic relationships.

Now to the ways I’m approaching re-gaining connection with the part or parts of myself who can take approach on in a constructive, healthy and growth-mindset paradigm. My radical acceptance work has been three-fold. I did a lot with the work of Cheri Huber, a Zen Buddhist writer. She taught me how to meditate Farmers’ Zen Style and also the practice of embracing traumatized parts of the self in moment-to-moment thoughts of inward-facing statements (thoughts) of unconditional love. The former has enabled me to drive a wedge between authenticity and ego by resulting in the seeing of ego as a separate entity that does not really exist but speaks through statements we confuse or conflate with thought. The latter is a replacement for self-judgment in the vacuum that is the psyche using sincere and authentic mantra-like statements like, “I love you exactly the way you are,” internally.. Both have been transforming me incrementally over a long period of time ever since I started using them.

Body-work, secondly, is similar in the incremental and piecemeal nature of it. I’ve engaged with several schools and am able to draw connections— diagram them— between each. For example, in the Alexander Technique and Pilates, we have engagement of the lower transverse abdominals, albeit in different types of practices (whispered “ah’s” versus applied tension on the exhale without the “ah” during a pelvic tilt. In the Franklin Method, nature imagery supplants Alexanders inhibition, instructions and direction.

With the Alexander Technique, one can contemplate definable simple actions before undertaking them, one at a time, in such a way that a “third option” arises, which is healthier and less tension-inducing. It can be applied to behavior and movement. An example of a behavior to target would be to “go say hi to that girl over there,” and in this case the application would end once initial contact has been made (but it could be used in each subsequent decision of action live, within the subsequent interaction, through a simple to apply method I will explain in a moment). In the case of movement, an example application would be “sitting in this chair,” “stooping to pick up that pencil,” and so-on. The Technique brings about a strange feeling of physical release during movement, impacts overall use of the body over time, requires changing one’s beliefs alongside the method— mind and body are one is one of the axioms of Alexander’s— and is carried out as follows.

Select the activity or behavior you wish to engage in. Ask yourself, shall I do y or shall I not do y? Acknowledge the method of attaining y that arises in the mind, and the tension that appears in the body, if any. Stop short of carrying out y, but do so only after feeling yourself begin to do y. In other words, begin to do it but stop short before actually beginning. At this point no outward action, no movement whatsoever takes place. Reflect on a more skillful method of attaining the desired action or behavior y. While instructing yourself in the decided upon more “correct” way of performing y, (arbitrarily) selected by yourself based on your knowledge of the activity’s requirements and your past experience, ask yourself, Shall I do y or shall I not do y a second time. Continue giving the corrected instruction set and asking the question repeatedly, if necessary, until you are able to perform the “almost-doing” described in the second instruction. Once that happens, you will have almost performed but not performed y twice; you will have taken absolutely no action whatsoever, twice, as it were, in other words. Now, at this very moment, do y or anything else you wish to do. The way this works— and it takes extreme concentration and will-power to get through this process in my case— is, the instruction is actually manifested to whatever extent the current arrangement of mind and body can allow and this, most importantly, more so than it habitually, previously has done. This “doing” invariably feels “off” and “extremely relieving” every time I have ever done it. This technique works in such a way that proficiency in the desired manner of achieving all behaviors and movements becomes less tension-causing. It does not work, counterintuitively, in such a way as to correct any one specific behavior to which it has been applied. In other words, the next time you try performing y again, unless you re-apply the method, you will invariably perform it in the habitual manner until you have achieved what Alexander calls “constructive, conscious use” of your mind/body apparatus.

Alexander gave a few simple sets of instructions related to use of the body in applying the method— i.e., any movement or activity— (I only know of five, but I haven’t read his entire body of work yet) and teachers of the technique provide their students with additional instructions. Alexanders instructions for the performing of any movement, as defined above, are:
* head to go forward and up (crown of the head, that is)
* neck to be free
* shoulders to broaden
* spine to lengthen
* legs away
For a behavior such as “joining the others at the table,” say, I might analyze my reflexive habit as being “dopy and abrupt” and come up with a replacement instruction set such as, “be upbeat and move smoothly and gracefully.” In the case of a behavior, the instruction set should be delivered to oneself all at once, like a musical chord— so its almost a visualization or abstract idea or thought of the individual parts put all together. Alexander points out that without doing this process described above, changing habits of use and behavioral habits will not ever come about directly. Indeed, I have observed in myself an utter incapability of altering any habit directly, without use of this method. Curling the toes while I masturbate, clenching my jaw when I swing a baseball bat— anything. Alexander also says we can’t make progress unless we change our beliefs, and I find that the belief system holds the feeling of discomfort and resistance to practice both, in place.

Enter relinquishment of prejudices. We all have them, and I have worked hard to uncover and release my particular prejudice set, though progress has been slow and peace-meal. What can be said about bigotedness? It’s an expression of hate, and it’s held in the body as well as the mind. I’ve let go of several prejudice-sets that, because I was “taught” right from wrong by extremely worldly and relatively enlightened parents and other role-models I respected, I was never supposed to have to begin with and wished never to reveal to anyone, ever. But we learn in complicated ways, I think, and I had to reverse some hate-motivated habits of mind. I am at the end of work on a model of ethnic identity development I learned in graduate school which begins with absolute denial and/or ignorance of one’s prejudices and ends with working to help society at large complete the model and making amends to those seen previously as “other” or “inferior” or “superior” (depending on one’s ethnic identity). This work is dovetailing with my approach work insofar as it is helping me eliminate behavioral and social quirks and dysfunctions while enabling me to come to terms with the exact, specific parameters of my sexuality. There is in turn an emotional component due to increased understanding of what the hell is going on in the big city in which I reside, work and recreate; and a profound physical component. It’s affecting my sinus and tension in various parts of my body that I can’t even begin to comprehend the basis for, but now understand the genesis of due to the fact that I can connect release of habitual tension to the cessation of individual prejudices. Other minds may not produce such tensions, but if they do, I almost guarantee they will be connecting these dots I am connecting, little by little. And I should add that it is very rare to see my mind and heart shift in such a drastic and visible way that something shifts in the body at the same time. But it happens, and it has happened just this week in a very unexpected manner— which I will keep to myself ; )

I will now circle back to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and the visualization practice I’ve been doing. Or, actually will I? No, I want to post this and be done for now. I hope to do a writeup of some of my visualization experiences. In a nut shell, visualizing an aversive response to some social-oriented behavior I perform is fucking revolutionary for me. I got it from Glenn Pearce here on Girls Chase (Podcast). One point I will make and then call it a day, is that I have done it enough to see that the usual way I imagine or rehearse an approach in my head is completely different than this method both in substance and quality. The usual way is the ego throwing out arbitrary ideas and a blind alley and dead end at the same time. The visualization of rejection brings in a whole other aspect that is absolutely not the same as rehearsal. As it turns out, a rehearsal is scripted— but a visualization of this sort is actually dynamic and demands improvisational thinking, that is, ad-libbing. It demands it but draws it out. It actually forces me to apply intelligence to the situation whereas a rehearsal that ends and begins with a successful delivery of a line by me and a successful delivery of a line in response by her, all of which is not resonant with anything that is actually intelligent within me. The intelligence, then, gives me an experience of dynamism. It’s more than “realizing” or “reflecting upon and deciding based on logic” that some rejection or other is “ok,” i.e., that I can “get through it” or even “become stronger because of it.” That’s nonsense, and that’s largely how CBT gets practiced. I’ve done a lot of CBT charts, and believe me, I know. CBT lasts for a moment and vanishes, and I can’t imagine how many hours, day after day, it would make to actually make a dent in my anxiety and self-esteem issues. It’s backwards facing, isn’t it? This, on the other hand, is entirely experiential and “in the moment.” In this moment (in this visualization) she said I am a putz, probably have a small dick, and showed me a text she just wrote telling her best friend as much. Well….she’s not real, so I can come up with a response. No pressure, I can do this. Much of the time, I do so spontaneously and find that it resembles mastery of one kind or another. Amazing. This is building toward something really, really— good!

I’m complete for this one and to summarize, there are three major things I’m doing to retool my heart in order to take advantage of the skill-sets taught here on Girls Chase, self-acceptance through Zen meditation and CBT-like visualizations, body-work and working out prejudice I carry within. I think I’m making a lot of progress fast, and I think this is due to a)acquiring humility and willingness to “try more thoroughly” the means I’ve selected; and b) practicing these methods for a pretty long time now. I’m 41, not getting any younger or harder, and I’m due.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Chat Convo Writeup Dec 7

This one is good because there is a bit of conflict in it. And I get asked if I am autistic. Also, I get some validation on my recent insights about sexal frame and using creativity in approach-- something I have not started doing yet due to self-esteem hamstrungedness (that is a word) but see myself working up to now, finally. It's the grail...

User A: In order not to get a false IOI Yesterday at 5:04 PM
User B: You are probably a cerebral type, do not sirpress your gut Yesterday at 5:04 PM
User B: What is worse that can happen if you habe false IOI? Yesterday at 5:04 PM
User A: But either way the chicks I actually want to approach never seem to give me a IOI Yesterday at 5:04 PM
User A: I did read about forcing IOIs, though Yesterday at 5:05 PM
User B: You just hone your experience. Also getting IOIs does not mean you will get laid. Taken girls can give subconscious interest as well..or bad logisitics Yesterday at 5:05 PM
User B: Or how about attention whor3s who bait you with IOI. Those can be practiced as well Yesterday at 5:05 PM
User C: Yeah very subtle, after a while, you just feel it when it's "on". I like making eye contact when they want to take a peek to assert dominance lol Like Reactions:User B Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Yesterday at 5:07 PM
PrancingRabbit: Applies, @User A Yesterday at 5:07 PM
User B: @User C, you know what assets dominance as well right? Yesterday at 5:07 PM
User B: Carrying a.... (guys Im kidding, this is NOT an endorsement) Haha Reactions:User C Yesterday at 5:08 PM
PrancingRabbit: I came on thinking I might querry about some IOI I recieved today at a freelance gig Yesterday at 5:08 PM
PrancingRabbit: I will wait my turn though and check back in in a bit perhaps Yesterday at 5:08 PM
User B: Prancing just shoot, although I will tune out to watch a show Yesterday at 5:08 PM
User B: No need to be polite about it Yesterday at 5:09 PM
User B: There is no "turn" Yesterday at 5:09 PM
PrancingRabbit: Ok, ok Yesterday at 5:09 PM
PrancingRabbit: I'm teaching woodshop with another guy in a private school a few times a week Yesterday at 5:10 PM
PrancingRabbit: Today was my third time. The math teacher, cute young thirties (I'm 41) introduced herself to me and my co-teacher today Yesterday at 5:10 PM
PrancingRabbit: after class Yesterday at 5:10 PM
PrancingRabbit: Strong eye-contact, what would be the point of her coming up to us? No other teachers going out of their way to do that Yesterday at 5:11 PM
PrancingRabbit: Actually, many probably will Yesterday at 5:11 PM
PrancingRabbit: So it's premature-- and I realize that Yesterday at 5:12 PM
User A: I had plenty of those types of opportunities throughout college, but I threw away every single one :( Yesterday at 5:12 PM
User A: Girls showing interest in me in some way. But I had no idea what to do / made excuses Yesterday at 5:12 PM
PrancingRabbit: Haha-- I can relate-- that's why I'm here lol Haha Reactions:User A Yesterday at 5:12 PM
PrancingRabbit: I just need to go back and write this up in my journals thread Yesterday at 5:12 PM
PrancingRabbit: I guess my statement of querry is that I want to ineract with her in a light, innocent way, one, and not ask her on a date, two, and take her somewhere and have sex with her, three Yesterday at 5:13 PM
PrancingRabbit: And my learning eDe so to speak is pulling off the interacting in such a way that it's leading to one but not the other (sex, not a date) Yesterday at 5:14 PM
PrancingRabbit: And also, being nervious thinking about talking to her anymore, as if there is something more than casual sex at stake Yesterday at 5:15 PM
PrancingRabbit: My frame is all fucked up Yesterday at 5:15 PM
PrancingRabbit: My habitual frame Yesterday at 5:15 PM
PrancingRabbit: Is to think about it as a performance Yesterday at 5:16 PM
PrancingRabbit: rather than something every-day... Yesterday at 5:16 PM
PrancingRabbit: sexuality makes things seem larger than life, it's a distortion Yesterday at 5:16 PM
PrancingRabbit: And I'm right there in the middle of the distortion, feeling I write! Yesterday at 5:17 PM
PrancingRabbit: But writing this out for you guys is helping me actually Yesterday at 5:17 PM
PrancingRabbit: thanks @User H and @User A et al. Yesterday at 5:17 PM
User D: prancing rabbit you are very logical Yesterday at 5:18 PM
User D: i noticed that about you Yesterday at 5:19 PM
PrancingRabbit: Yo User D. That sounds like a derogetory statement Yesterday at 5:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: You know what though Yesterday at 5:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: I think I get it from a parent Yesterday at 5:20 PM
User A: I'm the same way. I'm an engineer. I get in my head too much Yesterday at 5:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: And I think she uses it to dominate others, like a tyrant would Yesterday at 5:20 PM
PrancingRabbit: I'm doing something that requires a lot of reflection and I believe the head is one of the most powerful tools we have to reflect Yesterday at 5:21 PM
User D: actually, you are projecting when you say it sounds like a derogitroyey statement Yesterday at 5:21 PM
PrancingRabbit: Of course. I wanted to draw you out Yesterday at 5:21 PM
PrancingRabbit: And I was being fecisious Yesterday at 5:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: And not meaning to put you on defensive whatsoever Yesterday at 5:22 PM
User D: do you have aspbergers or autism Yesterday at 5:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: I think thinking has one of three orientations based on whether you are gut, emotion, or thought centered Yesterday at 5:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: haha Yesterday at 5:22 PM
PrancingRabbit: No Yesterday at 5:22 PM
User D: just wondering Yesterday at 5:23 PM
User D: because i do Yesterday at 5:23 PM
PrancingRabbit: I have a set of difficulties related to trauma in adolescence and early adulthood Yesterday at 5:24 PM
PrancingRabbit: Cognitive and social, leading to emotional Yesterday at 5:24 PM
PrancingRabbit: The thing about gut, emotion and thought centered is crucial when discussing thinking though Yesterday at 5:25 PM
PrancingRabbit: They are present, past and future oriented, respectively Yesterday at 5:25 PM
PrancingRabbit: I am emotion centered and get thinking about the past, or "stories" Yesterday at 5:25 PM
PrancingRabbit: I've been counteracting it since realizing this about a month ago. I hadn't learned the distinctions and additionally was mislabelling myself "thought centered" Yesterday at 5:26 PM
PrancingRabbit: I do mindfulness of thoughts, emotions and body sensations-- check in, note them Yesterday at 5:27 PM
User D: thats astute of you Yesterday at 5:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: Heart-rate is high level Yesterday at 5:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: I learned it from Cheri Huber Yesterday at 5:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: an author and priest Yesterday at 5:27 PM
PrancingRabbit: Thoughts interact with the other modalities and knowing the balance in the coctail is a powerful piece of knowleDe Yesterday at 5:28 PM
PrancingRabbit: I AM going to work through my approach anxiety... Yesterday at 5:28 PM
PrancingRabbit: Now that I know what a sexual frame is Yesterday at 5:28 PM
PrancingRabbit: And that is having a cascading affect through all parts of my life Yesterday at 5:29 PM
PrancingRabbit: But it has to sink in and that takes time Yesterday at 5:29 PM
User D: what is a sexual frame? Yesterday at 5:29 PM
PrancingRabbit: This is a sexual frame: Yesterday at 5:30 PM
PrancingRabbit: "You know, I’m wondering something about you. Since we began talking, honestly I’ve gotten this vibe from you, like you’re the open-minded and nonjuDemental type of person who sometimes connects really genuinely with other people at a deep level, like you’re someone who is able to step out of the frame of your own mind and understand how people are feeling. Have you ever noticed that about yourself or has anyone ever told you that before?” Yesterday at 5:31 PM
PrancingRabbit: "Okay cool, like that’s what I was kinda noticing about you… so now, I’m wondering something else too… since you’re this type of person who sometimes connects really genuinely with certain people, maybe of course with the type of person who really takes the effort to get to know you at a deep level… like for more than just your body or as if you’re just a sexual object like so many other guys do these days… with that type of person who you feel really understands you, have you ever noticed how sometimes a strong connection can develop really quickly because of how right it feels?" Yesterday at 5:32 PM
User D: i was asking you more like, what makes that a frame? Yesterday at 5:32 PM
PrancingRabbit: "Yeah, like have you ever noticed that if it’s the right kind of vibe, and you’re talking with each other, staring in each other’s eyes, hearing each other’s voice, and feeling each other’s presences, that sometimes that vibe just gets stronger and stronger and maybe even so strong that it feels like there’s this urge inside of your body, like you know that this person is different and someone you’re able to feel vulnerable with, someone you feel safe with, and someone who you can be your true self with without any juDement?" Yesterday at 5:32 PM
PrancingRabbit: "Right, and if there’s a feeling like this, now doesn’t it also make sense that sometimes that vibe can keep growing and growing between each other because of how right it feels? Like you feel good, you feel powerful, you may even feel completely comfortable in your own skin, and suddenly, you realize that this is also the type of person that isn’t like the other fuckboys at the bars who will grope you and treat you like a piece of meat, or even the type of guy who stands against the wall on his phone and never comes and talks to you no matter how many times you look over, no, this is the type of guy who you can tell will be completely focused on you because he sees what makes you special, what makes you you, and takes a real personal interest in understanding you beyond the surface level… I mean, that’s something my friend Jada always tells me those are all things she never can find in a guy but really likes, is that true with you too?" Yesterday at 5:32 PM
PrancingRabbit: It's flirting, the speach and facial expressions and body language. It's what follows or is implied by all of the above Yesterday at 5:33 PM
PrancingRabbit: That's what I think it is Yesterday at 5:33 PM
User D: Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 5:33 PM
PrancingRabbit: All that was shared with me here by another user a week ago Yesterday at 5:33 PM
PrancingRabbit: This was a good session for me Yesterday at 5:35 PM
PrancingRabbit: I'm going to go journal now Yesterday at 5:35 PM
User D: mmkaay Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 5:35 PM
PrancingRabbit: Hey, I actually think it would be worth it to correct my question statement above. Instead of saying "that sounds pejorative," which was kinda hostile, I could said something like "how do you mean?" or, "that sounds like a euphamism for 'you think too much.'" And in addition, maybe I could have given you an opportunity to share your follow-up remarks before launching into my thoughts on the meaning and implications of having a busy thought-life. Yesterday at 5:59 PM
PrancingRabbit: I do communicate impulsively-- that is a pattern connected to the issues I was referring to that developed in my mid-twenties and really does plag me in more than one aspect of life-- and I did so there, as a matter of fact. I've had too much on my "psychic plate" to address it fully and am trying that lately. Here is another opportunity to grow... Yesterday at 6:00 PM
User D: thats alright buddy Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 6:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: I also was anticipating a prozaic, facile interpretation of my psyche, on your part,
which is completely unfair. I'm really sorry about that, User D . Yesterday at 6:00 PM
User D: like you said, another opportunity to grow Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 6:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: Thanks Yesterday at 6:00 PM
User D: chicks really hate it when you leave them on read during screening without closing it off by
qualifying them Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 6:17 PM
User D: what i wanna know is, how long can you leave them on read for before they start to get cold Yesterday at 6:17 PM
User D: so far its shorter than 3 days Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 6:18 PM
User D: which is the typically the max time you can leave girls on read in general situations Yesterday at 6:19 PM
User E: fk that reminds me Yesterday at 7:20 PM
User E: i forgot to txt birthday girl (the one i told you about) when we talked about leave on read last time, when i said something skin to Yesterday at 7:20 PM
User E: "i can't wait to be punished by her for leaving her on read again" lol Haha Reactions:View Yesterday at 7:21 PM
Surveyor: The lead I traded Instas with yesterday bikes a lot, so I asked her if she was up for a long ride. She is but "I have a boyfriend, so long as you know that". Eh, it's all good. Yesterday at 7:39 PM
User F: oh those suck when they reveal that important info late in the game lol Haha Reactions:View Yesterday at 9:26 PM
PrancingRabbit: Am able to articulate two breakthroughs since returning to girls chase. Instead of writing in the journal I decided to share here since always same people on lol Yesterday at 9:54 PM
PrancingRabbit: One is this frame thing. Taking off my mask, breaking through her seal of formality and properness, such that she has permission to take hers off Yesterday at 9:55 PM
PrancingRabbit: The second is applying creativity to the matter of sexuality. While I haven't converted yet, I am at least having the right thoughts and connecting them to the right situations Yesterday at 9:56 PM
PrancingRabbit: When one loses one's ability to apply their creativity to sexuality, they are doomed, in seduction and in the bedroom, I believe Like Reactions:View Yesterday at 9:57 PM
PrancingRabbit: I couldn't before since I was too nerveous. Nervous like a small child in an adult situation Yesterday at 9:57 PM
PrancingRabbit: It's a breakthrough. I'm a pretty intelligent, creative person, but my sexuality has been cut off from that well-spring. And it's being fed into that part of my psyche finally. Yesterday at 10:00 PM
PrancingRabbit: If I can use my wit within the sexual frame...I can see things taking a real turn for the better. Yesterday at 10:01 PM
PrancingRabbit: This is pretty much the last frontier in my development, lads. I've accomplished a lot in my 41 years on this earth,. I guess I just wanted to save the best for last Yesterday at 10:01 PM
PrancingRabbit: And I realize that all that's needed is "good enough." I definitely have the aptitude to be "good enough." Yesterday at 10:02 PM
PrancingRabbit: Feels really good. Now I just need to practice alone and start getting some field practice (read: lays) in! Yo, I got this boys Yesterday at 10:02 PM
PrancingRabbit: Thanks for "listening." I think I needed to get that stuff out so the usual suspects can have a feel for who and what I am, cause who wants to ready (extremely) longwinded jjournal entries, which is all I've been writing? ...
I will try to be more open and patient and less long winded when I am here. And listen more ; ) Yesterday at 10:04 PM
PrancingRabbit: Check it- this 9th grader in my class chats up all the girls and asks me who my favorite porn star is today. I am new and they are just getting to know me. Sexuality at that stage is fully developed in some people. It absolutely blows my mind. Haha Reactions:View Yesterday at 10:08 PM
User G: So I have a girlfriend now, what do I do on this server? Today at 2:29 AM
User G: I think I’m gonna take this opportunity to work on my charisma and fundamentals Like Reactions:View
User G: @PrancingRabbit its good that your having these breakthrough’s. I know I’ve said some pretty uncalibrated sexual shit before lol. Today at 2:38 AM
User G: Also I realized what I said before is pretty stupid, girls chase isn’t only about cold approach, it’s also about maintaining relationships so I can still find some value here Today at 2:40 AM
User H: how u find her ??


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
Another post of breakthroughs.

One. Issuing commands. It all began on a vacation trip visiting friends with little kids. The first one was telling a four year old, “Stop doing that,” as he was spraying me with a spritzer bottle, an “old trope”of his at that point, several days into the trip. He pressed boundaries, which is what four year-olds are supposed to do, and I calmly did this command issue, and he immediately stopped and refocused his attention on something else. Working up to this was employing NVC (non-violent communication) tactics to another situation and using puns to avert perverse, maniacal statements the four year-old had been making. Rhyming worked really way as a deflection method, and NVC came in handy one day when he was pestering/stalking me in my sleeping quarters uninvited. NVC uses an “infinite” communication model of describe, use an “I” statement, preferably one involving an emotion, making a request, giving an ultimatum, and repeat. With non-sociopaths, you often get to stop at step one. That day, I told him, “we have been hanging out a lot today and I have been around people otherwise all day as well. It takes a lot of focus and emotional energy for me to act my best, and this has been a long day for me.” His eyes were getting really big, jaw kind of sagging, and before I could go any further he said sheepishly, “I think I am going to leave now,” and turned and walked out of the space.

Also in advance of this mini assertiveness breakthrough, this newfound ability to issue commands, but from a different tact, I had a heart to heart with my host about how difficult I find it to state preference contrary to another’s, and I had some interactions with the dogs. Through the former, I got advice to use the three words “I’d rather not,” when someone was asking me to do something I found objectionable for some reason or other. Man, if that phrase doesn’t cut through a lot of psychological baggage I’ve been carrying for the last 25-plus years! I explained that I felt exploited by something they wanted me to do to help them out while I was there, and that I have this “strange block” inside me that always makes it impossible to come up with a way to express my feelings in such situations. Well, I guess it’s an “I statement,” but it’s a fucking good one and I never would have thought of it if I hadn’t opened up about the correct issue affecting me and at the correct moment in time. I’ve used a form of this message in one way or another over and over since, including the commands, I suppose. The former, interacting with dogs, brought an insight that like I told the dogs “No jumping, down,” I could do the same sort of thing in a vast variety of circumstances. There is an analogue: people always be doing some equivalent to “jumping up on me.” And then, dogs don’t seem to mind an order, I reasoned, so why should humans?

Since this vacation, I have been issuing commands to my moms, my students, and random people whenever I find it necessary and constructive to do so. Counterintuitively (for me at least), when done with compassion and in support of authentic preference, need and desire behind it, no matter how forceful, people seem to actually enjoy receiving commands from me. Even my moms. I told her to stop asking me about my health insurance status and she simply said, “OK.” Wish I had done this years ago. It’s none of her goddamn business.

The connection to approach with all of these assertiveness skills is that I can a) let go of feeling as if assertiveness toward women is a form of objectification of them; and b) assertiveness, which is of course a form of ejaculation, is extremely attractive on many, many levels.

Two. Communicating only advantageous things. I encountered turbulence with this one with some students this week, and haven’t had many opportunities to practice this, but have had some breakthroughs around this. This is connected to the question of frames in seduction and just about everything else in life, it seems to me. The breakthrough that precipitated this newfound incipient understanding is releasing my laser-focus on myself. Always preoccupied with myself. I’m finally getting tired of thinking about myself all the time, probably because I’m figuring out, after a lot of practice observing myself, that it is a depressing behavior and counterproductive to being a successful human. It’s hard to give this up, and as I say, there have been hick-ups since the initial realization I was omitting stupid ass comments in interactions with others.

This is big in seduction, as the frame can only be maintained by ignoring or committing everything counter-indicating it. It’s also quite exhilarating when applied in a place where doing so brightens someone else’s day by introducing mystery, expansive emotion or thought, or forgiveness/acceptance. And I suppose it also involves having the “correct” idea surface at the right moment as well. I think that is coming as a result of getting acquainted with the sexual frame (which absolutely applies to every interaction regardless of sexual intent), as well as the just-mentioned breakthroughs around being selfish and self-centered— not bad things in and of themselves, but hopefully stages that don’t occupy a person for his or her entire lifetime.

Three. Sizing people up. Intuiting or otherwise gleaning what an individual or group is after underneath the superficial or explicitly stated goal. This breakthrough is related to everything above, and it seems to be a powerful one. It’s incipient for me, again, but it’s extant— which it was never part of my personality since loss of innocence circa 11 years of age. I don’t know what else to say about it and I can’t think of any good examples from actual experience at the moment. Maybe I’m not following through well or having full realizations yet. But this seems like the way to cut through undesirable frames and improve the quality of my interactions with people, my self-esteem, and my chances of getting laid a lot.

Four. Avoiding drama. This is similar to “Two” above. It’s a bit more meta though. Rather meta on a social, not sexual level. Enneagram literature talks about three primary stances of individuals: social; sexual/relational; and self-preservation. I believe myself to be sexual, meaning I never tire of intense encounters and my drive or craving for these supersedes the other two. I’m also a very reckless person with a short fuse and a way-above-average sex drive. This is a social attribute because it is based not just on my own relationships, which happens to be all my myopic personality has been capable of reflecting on and interacting with, but expands awareness within oneself to include the group dynamic, whatever the group is. Maybe all my study of Marx, Hudson and other classical economists is finally paying off? The upshot, in any case, is that I am more holistically present and it’s much, much easier to navigate group dynamics as a result. This is good for seduction/approach, for sure. It’s a third of the Gunwich sexual frame, anyway (or what I think he uses the trifecta of social, safety and freedom— my words— to convey). I gotta review Gunwich to make sure I’m not butchering him.

Five. Relationship with my own thoughts about others. This is a fascinating one, and extremely gratifying and anxiety relieving in the aggregate. A long time ago, I broke the habit of think “hard” about things I watched on tv and at the cinema for minutes on end afterwards. Just this month, I noticed that I have stopped doing the same about people with whom I interact in the course of a day. The opposite of thinking hard is thinking “soft”— in other words, glancing over the subject of the thought in a caress (as it were) without much emotional attachment— or dismissing thoughts of others to whom one has been exposed altogether. I did not know thinking “hard” and “soft” were things until I found this second category of application, i.e., contact with others. We all meet encounter hundreds of people every week, and dozens of those encounters have significance through an exchange lasting between a few moments and a several hours. It’s a blessing to take all these interactions in stride and not need to hem and haw over them internally, no matter how intimate they have been. It’s a breakthrough worth mentioning for me.

Six. Spinal stillness in public. I have alluded elsewhere to this, but its another somewhat strange and wonderful breakthrough I didn’t know I was waiting for. I filter life through energies of primarily emotion in nature, and thoughts support these filters largely to my detriment. All I can say is that I noticed myself fail to collapse or produce tension in my scapular level vertebrate as I walked past a man on a jogging path at the park recently and in so doing realized I was habitually doing so prior to then. The collapse or tension is connected to fear. I’m letting go of some fears, and think that has precipitated a change in how I use my body in everyday interactions, for the better. Good for approach for obvious reasons.

Seven. Not imagining connections based on proximity (being in the same space at the same time) that don’t exist. Girl walks into area of library I’m posted up in. Girl browses a bit, seems to notice me. Girl lingers, seems absorbed, but again, definitely did glance at me at least once. The glancing and lingering are a SOI. Fuck, I’m too much of a pussy to say anything/fuck too bad she’s not my type/fuck I am a sex god. It’s so tiresome. It’s not necessary, not fair, and not constructive for approach or anything else.

Eight. Focus on self vs. comparison of self with others’ social behavior. This is liberating because I’m missing the main features of my actual personality as a result of incessant and continual comparison. Everything I do winds up being a performance for me, rather than a expression of authentic self. Dropping the comparisons in timely moments enables one to gain access to one’s impulsivity, spontaneity and gracefulness. Internally focusing is necessary, part of this equation. Not all thoughts of self are wrong.

Comparison is a very, very insidious and tricky phenomenon to drop. It seems related to dropping judgment of self, dropping judgment of other, and having meaningful activities to engage with on a daily basis. This one is incipient to be sure. "Be yourself" is advice I've recieved here and elsewhere, but it sure has been a hard one to follow. This seems to be improving through dropping the comparisons as well as other breakthroughs.

Nine. Seeing others’ perspectives as if they were my own. Self explanatory, but a word or two will expand and clarify. For me, it’s been hard to accept that I could have been born as somebody else. Somebody less athletic, somebody less attractive, somebody with less family wealth, a woman, etc. I go through my day as an “achiever” expecting other people to kneel before me and they do just about all of the time— until they realize I’m an ass who deserves other than adoration. What makes me an ass is thinking “All the world is my stage” rather than “All the world is A stage.” I am the biggest pervert and voyeur I know; and I expect others to either bow or entertain, and I resent them when they act like humans rather than players. What about their perspectives? Surely they find me entertaining and want me to bow to them just as much as I do them, and surely their experiences, regardless of these superficial attributes and characteristics I’ve been preoccupied and indeed obsessed with my entire life— oh, the narcissist I am— are equally valid in the “eyes of the universe.” It’s the strangest one on this list, because it makes me feel, at times, as if I could just evaporate into the ether and it wouldn’t make any difference— to me, to anyone else, to the universe. Feeling this without a sense of remorse or self-pity is extremely strange for me. The upshot, in any case, is that I wonder; I just wonder what women I encounter actually think about me…


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
I'm here to post the breakthrough of breakthroughs. Well, nearly. No conversions, but I did an approach like none other tonight.

It was a C- at best, but it had the trappings of something beyond anything I've been capable of previously. It is a low mark for someone who is capale of better. I've been claiming I'm moving into a new phase in seduction and indeed life, and here it is.

I walked into a gaming lounge and inquired about employment. It's a big, high-ceilinged place with maybe fifty gaming stations, some at desks, some in booths, and a modest bar off on one end. I asked the young women I spoke to behind the bar if she had a boyfriend. I leaned in to ask her, and I remained in this "forward" stance as she told me she was engaged. Yeah, right. Ok, in this city, perhaps she is. I kept talking, made a couple extremely stupid jokes about how I had just been rejected and she was going to just toss my name and number and email address in the circular file, and that was it. Well, she didn't seem creeped out. That's why I am giving myself a passing grade. That, and because I wasn't spinning out after the initial, bone headed proposition.

But I hadn't given it much thought, I'm out of practice, and I'm not really quite up to sophisticated approaches at the moment. So why did I approach to begin with? Because I can feel inside that I am not completely cut off from-- and indeed have access to-- my creativity, and because I'm an impulsive person.

I don't plan on betraying my impulsive nature, which I think is somewhat of an asset in approach. It wasn't wreckless, just impulsive. That being said, I also had an experience earlier today that convinced me I was ready to try something on someone. The opportunity presenting itself in the form of a petite and curvy but not too curvy bar tender of tender age, I went ahead and did just that. And as I said, it did not cause a re-traumatization, which is what approaching has been doing for the longest time. Strong words, but accurate. It's a way to describe putting oneself way out there, so far out that it stings during and bruises after-the-fact.

Earlier today, I had contact with a woman at a school I'm volunteering at (for now-- hopefully the gig will be paid next semester, if I choose to return to it), who I think is interested in being asked out by me. She poked her head in our classroom as she dropped a student who was late off. I don't have much to go on, but my correctness in diagnosing her interest is not important. What's important is what happened in my head and my body as I considered a potential approach. And there has been progress since she introduced herself to me and my collegue only two weeks ago as we were heaading out after conducting our class.

At that time, I was thinking about her and about what it would look like should I approach, and I was just entertaining the old ideas about stoggely asking to coffee, avoiding eye-contact, having my fingers crossed behind my back throughout the entire interaction (metaphorically), and so-on. I was not feeling inspired. But the last two weeks have been a continuation of all the progressions I've been journaling about here and others I haven't. That progression lead me to today's encounter and subsequent fantasy. In today's fantasy, in any case, I pictured myself trapsing into her empty classroom, saying hi, and proceeding to mill around looking at the stuff around me and shooting the shit with this really beautiful young educator. What would I say? Anything. I'd just say whatever I felt like, try to be funny (which takes as much effort as putting on shoes for me as long as I'm at ease), and get her to tell me something about herself. Ok, as I write, I can tell that I'm not fully convinced yet, especially whether or not some of the "wrong things" will come out. But the concept of "being myself" finally is seeming to apply to a scenerio of approach, and I am absolutely convinced that flirting is in my nature, and that women like the way I flirt.

If I will only do it. In other words, I may have this "right concept," which, to clarify, entails interacting in a normal way and hoping a sexual frame arises in a natural, organic way, and feeling comfortable enough to ask if a woman of my choosing would like to continue the interaction beyond that initial encounter, without wondering too hard what exactly that would look like. This is uncharted territory for me, if not quite all the way into the deep end (of the pool) yet. Which is to say, today was some strong evidence that what I've been saying here in my journal thread about having these breakthroughs and getting ready to approach, is in fact pretty much my reality. And that I don't need to do anything right now to claim this as the "breakthrough of breakthroughs," at least for now.

Again, I am contrasting this fantasy, which resembles an actual seduction due to the fact that I am easily spending time with someone I intend to seduce, without questioning the situation on the face of it, as it were-- with the habitual fantasy of approaching, which only accounts for some ego-based-- i.e., non-authentic-- attempt to convince somebody to "go for a date" with me. That's lame. It's not seuction. And it's not any of the things I think of when I imagine a smooth approach.And that's why it is the break through of break-throughs. Because, specifically, I am envisioning something I could not envision previously unless I applied it to somebody other than myself or in an interaction with an object rather than an actual woman. With this frame, I can see myself pracricing the seduction sequence with as many tools as my tiny brain can hold at one time at my disposal, such as sexual prizing, teasing, touching, being non-judgmental and yet evaluating, and prolonging contact.

The next phase, I presume, will be increasing capacity vis a vis the tools. In other words, coming up with one or two things I want to try or do, and attempting those things live, and building on these things from encounter to encounter. All of this presupposes that I have the presence of mind to select carefully/wisely, evaluate timing correctly, and read my "target" as I go. Oh man, this is revolutionary stuff for me. I promise to continue reporting on my approaches. I put it into action tonight, had a pretty lame interaction, feel fine about it, and know without a shadow of a doubbt that I am on the path, because after tonight's approach, described above, at the gaming lounge, all I could think was, "Man, if I am getting better at this, this is going to be a lot of fun."

The people here seem to be able to guide me, but first I had to make it to this point. It's just being comfortable with myself. And that's been a process. Being comfortable with myself, or accepting and loving myself unconditionally, which is what I think I'm really accomplishing, enables the advice to "be yourself," which someone indirectly gave me on the chat area just three days ago, to really make a lot of sense. I am going to be ale to apply my intellect, or creativity, to approach. I'm here to tell you this stuff isn't rocket science. Anything is possible. And it's possible for anyone to be a seducer, just like anyone can go out for the soccer team or sign up for the school play (community play?). And now I'm repeating myself...

So what specifically will I do next? I mean, now that I'm thinking in terms of contact and not engagement rings, but knowing that I still have plenty of wrinkles to iron out, and believing that doing so is a process begetting indirect progress in the form of spontanious approaches that go better and better as time goes on, for the next, oh, maybe 25 years (I'm 41 as I write), the only answer to that question is study and approach. And masturbate a lot less.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
On Future Breakthroughs.

One. Pure genius. I will channel my three favorite Podcast guests (we are allowed to proclaim favorites aren't we) when I approach. These are Adebayo, Franco Lombardi and Alex Rolstad. (Glenn Pearce is my other favorite I've been talking about a bunch, of course; and after these four, every other guest is my favorite).

Two. Adebayo. The low voice. The calm, almost catatonic dimeanor. Weasel Phrases. This guest reminds me of myself because he is analytical, and as such his methods seem accessable. In other words, I want to emulate him. One breakthrough to report vis a vis his advice to narrow in on the phases of approach one drops the most approaches during, is that I am now seeing each distinctly due to separating the phases from the sexual frame in my mind. It was all tangled up together, probably due to an avoidance of the essential inadequacy I didn't want to face, which has been the primary theme in this journal thread. I think is the first step toward having pain-free interactions with women I approach regardless of outcome on the sexual tip, by way of becoming able to practice things I haven't tried before in a non-threatening, un-creepy way. Context, context, context.

Three. Lombardi. This guest reminds me of my best friend in college and some others, who meet, seduce, and move on to the next one without breaking a sweat. "What do you suggest when your date seems anxious or otherwise uncomfortable?" he is asked in the Podcast. "Has never happened to me," he says. Hearing him talk and describe his methodology, it's easy to see why. A natural, I also want to emulate him. My personality is more intense, so he's gonna be a tough one for me. This being said, what I like most about his appearance on the Podcast other than gaining a bit of exposure to a (self-proclaimed) natural, are insights he shares on being present to the needs of others, putting yourself in others shoes, and breaking down the barriers between "males" and "females," in terms of all the hogwosh we get bombarded with in popular media, in school, etc.

Four. Rolstad. Our energy seems most similar of the four guests mentioned in this post. This is a goofy, fun-loving guy who can put on any mask in a moments notice and then take it off to give someone his full attention the very next. ...Tells girls he likes tying women up, asks them if they've ever sat in an older guys lap, tells them he thinks it's fun to tickle girls between their legs (stuff to that effect). All very smoothly and eloquently executed, like a person who is operating in a "zone" mere mortals could only dream of locating. He isn't making women feel like they are the center of the universe so much as Lombardi clearly is, but he engages in a fun-loving way that feels safe and sexual at the same time. He says he realized he needed to moderate his energy (regulate?) so as not to come off as hyper, thereby jeapordizing the sexual frame. Perhaps I'll be channeling Rolstad while I emulate Adebayo and Lombardi.

Thanks for reading. When I've achieved these future breakthroughs, I think my desire to get laid will more frequently align with the presence of the energy required to make it happen through seduction. Progress, baby steps, yaddy yada.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Jul 30, 2020
On Quitting

I've been writing a lot about breaktrhoughs lately. Started this thread with description of problem, i.e., statement of desire to change, and I think I've been changing, and rightly couching those breaktrhoughs in flowery, positive verbiage. Even so, I feel at an early stage still, and I have had a few days full of reminders of this. Here is a sumnation.

There are two troubling areas, mainly. Both coming to light through difficulty I'm having in my visualizations. Well, firstly, I've done two impulsive approaches, and they were ok for what they were, but half-baked and unsuccessful. Half-baked meaning they were impulsive and brief; and unsuccessful meaning that I didn't seduce much, just interacted on a pointedly sexual level ("Hey, how about a date?")

With the visualizations, which is where my practice is really unfolding right now, I am finding that I continue to think in an unimaginative way when pondering seduction approaches. I have so little to draw upon on this basis. Predomenantly, I am noticing that there is a selfish nature to my attempts to engage in the sexaul frame. I feel uninspired, so a woman would too unless extenuating circumstances were to indicate otherwise, such as her already feeling motivated toward me or being just off a breakup or cheated on, or being inibriated, etc. It's endgaining, an Alexander Technique term defined as goal rather than process oriented. In our lingo, I guess it's being focused on self rather than the seduction or the seduction-target. This is a good insight, right?

Rather than focusing on what I want, to get her to drop her panties for me, I should focus on something process oriented, and I've come up with three paths forward in this regard: social constructs, humor, and flattery. The social construct refers to broaching topics such as safety, being open, discression, and non-judgementality, etc. Humor comes below, separately (please read on). And flattery means complimenting her and asking her questions. This is perhaps the best of these paths, as it enables me to allow her to set the sexual frame, ultimately. Or at least to open up, allowing an "in" for me to set it. I think I'm trying to come up with clever ways to get her to think of me in a sexual light, but I might be better served to use questions and/or observations of a unique or positive nature about her and whatever else, sexual or not. I want to add on that I do have sexual stories to tell, sexual observations to make, and maybe there's more in a separate paragraph for this too.

Humor is something I can do, but is something that I have experienced as a way to get the wrong type of attention, attention that can ultimately distract from my purpose. But I think there could be two exceptions to this well-discussed maxim in certain cases. First of these is that I can do impercinations-- but am afraid of doing. This is a "potential breakthrough" I forgot to mention in my post in this thread with that title (first line). After my last visualization-- carification: visualizations take a certain type of energy I wasn't using when I was experimenting with the following-- I thought of my impersination ability and, while alone in my cave, tried out a few characters on the topic of sex. Funny voices talking about living with their moms, who are jealous of their sexual exploits, read: healthy masturbation habits. There's a great topic for seduction-- one I see myself broaching through a character; hence the present discussion. While doing this I laughed out loud, and I'm sure that doing with another person would have the same or a similar effect to if I broached a sexual topic in my own voice. I think impercinations have other essential features that lends it to use in seduction as well. Impersination is a sort of "reality-pacing" unto itself; is humorous; and is self-effacing as long as it's not malicious in intent. Humor is natural for me, but as said, I am extremely inhibitted when it comes to this sort of thing. I hope to have a breakthrough in this area.

I guess I actually just covered the second problematic area I noticed in the last set of visualizations I did, i.e., humor. So this one will be about sexual observations, which I have noted I think Alek Rolstad to be my role-model for. Of me, the apt question on this is, "Cat got your tongue much?" I am working with it though, but only outside the visualizations at this point. (Visualizations, as stated, are a special kind of exercise, and they will lead to actual approaches, OK? I have yet to dedicate a post to this practice exclusively but intend to.) In NVC, sexual prizing falls into the first two segments, Observations and I Satements, and before Requests. I think NVC is helping me tease out how to share difficult things to share, i.e., things I've been conditioned to think of as taboo, and sex prizing definitely fits into this categor. Masturbation aught to be a pretty huge topic in approach because it's about the two things I want her thinking about most, her pussy and my dick-dribble (that's a music reference, I think Anti Pop Consortium). So I'm thinking this is an area to work on, and I think I need to review the literature on sexual prizing and listen to the Rolstad GC Podcast episode again.

The visualization session was a shitty one because I couldn't think of the right things to say when there was no one around, but I did get the above places to potentially look from doing it. The problem as I now see it through the work I've been doing, is that I am thinking about it wrong, not that I don't have the aptitude or verbal acumen. And I don't want to be a one-trick pony or pick-up artist. That's a recipe to feeling empty and leaving others feeling that way. I see that, and I need to get better at verbal game. The place I am looking is what about the topic and concepts related to sexuality makes them so hard for me to talk about. A lot has been said in this regard in this thread already, and now I'm on to thinking about authenticity in self-expression, which is the aim of NVC. It's a process thing, and if I get the spirit of the thing right, I think I can explore as I go. The process is the end, right? So if I come from the right place, I'll be exploring my own sexuality and facilitating that same process within others for others (only extremely attractive young women, though, I'm afraid lol). It might look like, "When I masturbate, I like to cup my cock with a c-shaped grip like so, and think about girls with what appears to be your exact breast-size. I am a chronic masturbator. How often do you masturbate?" See, I am trying.

The last round was a stinker, but I ended up trying to get more imaginitive about my sexual prizing practice (see immediately above) and sexual frame via humor and social frames and complimenting girls after it concluded. Also, I got a bit deeper into the meat and potatoes of the practice, or half of it, at least, by giving extra attention to the rejection phase of the encounter. This is the genius of the practice. Maybe I won't need a novel post, I can sum it up here. Allowing a response in the negative from the imaginary seductee is helping with two critical aspects of this approach persuit. One, it is helping me figure out what exactly I am going to do when I approach a real woman, and thereby to discover the areas I need to work on, based on the literature on seduction. The rejection phase forces me to see an approach as a continuation of the opener, rather than just the opener, or just the move, or just the pull, or just the sex. I'm putting it all together conceptually because of seeing the response in a safe environment. Contrary to popular belief, the mind, under the right set of circumstances, can be a safe place; scaffholding required for some: enter visualizations!

Two, visualizations get me focused on process and humor. The process is of a dialectic nature due to the give and take involved. The dialectic presents the hazard and the opportunity. This is something I think newcomers to seduction all grasp intellectually, but which I at least have not turned the mill on even a fraction of a rotation. The hazard, it turns out, is not as big as I was making out to be. I see a seduction attempt as something one can easily make amends for or even put in the credit collumn when it goes south, now. So the hazard is not really a hazard at all. And the opportunity is to take advantage of a chick's statements of rejection. These statements can be reframed, turned on their heads, or made into jokes by a skilled seducer. In my visualizations, after allowing myself to come up with a contrary statement to every phrase I utter, I've had moments of coming up with pure genius sponteniously, and moments where I've had to pause for a minute to come up with a decent response. Both are helpful. The kindness in the practice is to give myself the opportunity to save face in a safe environment with nothing at stake, and the genius is in showing me where there are opportunities where I had only seen hazard before.

There is no such thing as a seducer who doesn't encounter adversity in approach, and I think I'm looking at two kinds, internal and external. Both are viewable in visualizations that include the rejection or aversive response of the object of approach. The visualizations are helping me deal with my internal barriers to success and the tactical nuts and bolts, something that for me is an absolute requirement at this stage of the game. I'm trying to get unstuck, and I think it's extremely challenging. So much so that I've felt like quitting a few times recently.