Direct vs Indirect daygame approach

[Igor]

When I look for infields, the fast majority are DIRECT approaches but then I notice the guy who did the approach is a smooth guy and has good looks. For average men, not that attractive, would you really think that DIRECT is always better than going INDIRECT?

 

[AspiringStoic]

Guys do not do direct because they are smooth.

They have become smooth because they have done tons and tons of it.

And really? All guys doing direct have good looks??

How about these bald guys? They are all good looking studs?

 

[Skills]

When I look for infields, the fast majority are DIRECT approaches but then I notice the guy who did the approach is a smooth guy and has good looks. For average men, not that attractive, would you really think that DIRECT is always better than going INDIRECT?

try them both, see which one works better.....

 

[James D]

The advantage of direct for day game is it gives your opener context when it would otherwise feel out of the blue.

Like if you see a pretty girl across the street, you're not gonna walk over just to ask her for directions. Would feel off.

It gives a cool plausible reason why you went out of your way and broke social conventions to talk to her.

And in the day you're gonna be doing a lot of these approaches especially if the girl isn't stationary.

And sometimes she's in a rush or in her head and a good compliment snaps her out of it and gets her to focus on you.

Any other time you can go indirect like situationally relevant openers, do that. Usually in cafes, bookstores, stationary girls.

Direct can fall flat when done in a generic way, which you'll see a lot of YouTubers do btw.

 

[quiteastory]

Women will know why you approach them even if you pretend that's not the case = you are labelled as Mr Creepy Guy. Pretending you're not interested will work against you. And if you think you're not smooth enough to go direct, that's exactly why you need to do it, because experience = smoothness (and good fundamentals of course).

 

[Skills]

Women will know why you approach them even if you pretend that's not the case = you are labelled as Mr Creepy Guy. Pretending you're not interested will work against you. And if you think you're not smooth enough to go direct, that's exactly why you need to do it, because experience = smoothness (and good fundamentals of course).

Sir you have no clue how indirect works.... total kj

 

[quiteastory]

Sir you have no clue how indirect works.... total kj

Sure mate So your advice for the guy is to approach attractive women on the street, pretend you want ask what time is it and try to make something happen?

 

[Francis]

Sure mate So your advice for the guy is to approach attractive women on the street, pretend you want ask what time is it and try to make something happen?

Read the post from James again.

Ideal indirect is often with a situational opener. You're not hiding the banana for long - just not throwing anything out there she can reject until detecting some interest.

Even if you ask the time, if you sense attraction in her body language you can start showing interest back.

 

[quiteastory]

Read the post from James again.

Ideal indirect is often with a situational opener. You're not hiding the banana for long - just not throwing anything out there she can reject until detecting some interest.

Even if you ask the time, if you sense attraction in her body language you can start showing interest back.

I read it and I agree with everything he said.

Like if you see a pretty girl across the street, you're not gonna walk over just to ask her for directions. Would feel off.

This is what I said.

Any other time you can go indirect like situationally relevant openers, do that. Usually in cafes, bookstores, stationary girls.

I agree that in these situations indirect may be better. My main problem with indirect is a fact that it's too random, you can't really do proper amount of approaches to succeed or learn. I'm a busy guy and i rarely have an opportunity to chill in a cafe, hoping that a hot chick will pop up next to me.

If it happens, it happens, I always shoot these shots, but I prefer to go direct, as I have better control over my approach numbers. Direct also creates more opportunites, you don't wait for context, you create it. It also creates a solid romantic frame, which gave me much better results than indirect.

 

[Skills]

Sure mate So your advice for the guy is to approach attractive women on the street, pretend you want ask what time is it and try to make something happen?

So indirect is asking for time and directions???

 

[Francis]

I read it and I agree with everything he said.



This is what I said.



I agree that in these situations indirect may be better. My main problem with indirect is a fact that it's too random, you can't really do proper amount of approaches to succeed or learn. I'm a busy guy and i rarely have an opportunity to chill in a cafe, hoping that a hot chick will pop up next to me.

If it happens, it happens, I always shoot these shots, but I prefer to go direct, as I have better control over my approach numbers. Direct also creates more opportunites, you don't wait for context, you create it. It also creates a solid romantic frame, which gave me much better results than indirect.

I'm not really getting the point here...

It's not really about direct vs. indirect. It's using the right tool for the situation.

So yeah if you want to do high volume and stop girls on the street, direct may be the appropriate tool.

With situational you don't wait for context. There is already context you comment on, like whatever she's shopping for or reading, or whatever's going on around you two in the present moment.

 

[quiteastory]

I'm not really getting the point here...

It's not really about direct vs. indirect. It's using the right tool for the situation.

So yeah if you want to do high volume and stop girls on the street, direct may be the appropriate tool.

With situational you don't wait for context. There is already context you comment on, like whatever she's shopping for or reading, or whatever's going on around you two in the present moment.

You're right, i got caught up in a "direct vs indirect" battle too much. You need to choose a proper tool for the job.

 

[Skills]

You're right, i got caught up in a "direct vs indirect" battle too much. You need to choose a proper tool for the job.

This is an example of fast and indirect, inderect is not only opinion openers and asking for directions..

Openers - "You seem lost"

Ok guys this is a very very high odds opener, it is really good for "malls", specially outside malls, so here it how it works: - there is a mall you always go to, usually day game... or just a mall you frequent this is crucial so you know were most or all of the stores are....(for example the...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Ratata]

Apropos direct... I used to be extremely direct during night game, either qualifying on being adventurous, or simply asking straight "Would you like to go on an adventure?" I call this The Adventure Opener, and it's highly dependent on your state. At first I was really surprised by just how many women were actually up for going with me lol. The real challenge starts when you've made out with her, and you're now on the street and she suddenly realizes "Oh shit, I'm going home with this guy now!" Might do a write-up on this, but I digress.

These days, I mostly do social game or do daygame though, with daygame taking up a solid second where it's something I'll not actively go out to do, but instead something I always do wherever I go. And daygame is a very different beast to nigth game imho.

In daygame I definitively favour indirect, going off IOIs or even approach invitations, i.e. she smiles at you when you look at her, and stuff like that. Again something that comes straight off your inner state. Smile to the world, and the world will smile back and bs like that... This mostly due to the venues I do daygame in, often public transportation - and if you go super direct there, and she rejects you, and you then have to sit there like adummy for 10 more minutes, it can get awfully awkward lol...

Anyway. When I started doing this I'd make it a mission to see how many women you can get to give you IOIs or approach invitations simply by being friendly and smily and winky whereever I went. These days that's not so important to me, but it is a tool I still use.

However, once the set is hooked, it can escalate quite quickly. These days I usually safe it by getting the number, but back when I was more experimental, I got some pretty wild results by acting out my inner Don Juan...

That's when I'd experiment by throwing the worst, most overly romantic (which is of course also super direct) bs I could come up with. Like perhaps lines directly from the movie Don Juan De Marco or similar. I've tried that multiple times btw and ... man if you get the delivery of that shit, watch their panties drop lolol! Women will just start giggling, and... Once there, you can even just start making out with her tbh. I've made out with women in the strangest locations due to this, like two minutes after meeting her, due to these things, usually around parks. Never in malls though. That's still on my bucket list...

After the hook, you'll ask humdrum questions like "what do you do", and when she does you the favour back and asks what you do, that's when you can experiment with hitting her with movie lines such as "I please women........" As a joke, obviously. But a very good joke!

Another good answer is "I'm an ... artist". Brief pause for drama. Wait for her face to ligth up or for her to giggle, then go in close, caress her hair and say something truly dumb like "You're so beautiful, I'd like to paint you..." Then start making out with her. This is all stuff I've done, btw. You've gotta be in a truly IDGAF attitude, and truly into the role you're playing (the super-direct romantic Don Juan). I can NOT guarantee that this will work for YOU, but it did work for me.

I've never tried starting a daygame interaction with direct, though, but turning the volume to 11 after the hook has worked very well for me in the past. She's got friends? Lag behind them. Make out quickly, or certainly go for a quick kiss, and then wait for her to ask for your number, or for her to invite you along. You know you've got her once she's begging you to come along lol.

I feel I need to warn people from using this nilly willy, however. If you aren't in the right head-space (the right state as it were), and if you're the least bit needy, and not like a happy dog just roaming the streets merrily sniffing crotches, then it's not gonna work for you. In fact, always be ready to throw the "Lol I was just joking!" or "No srsly I work as a garbage collector and rent a room from my brother". If you want to experiment with wild shit like this, make sure you have a good out before trying it. Otherwise, have fun!

 

[Warped Mindless]

Thinking in terms of direct versus indirect is overly limiting in my experience.

And when you start looking at openers through the lens of direct or indirect, you’re also severely limiting yourself as well.

The best type of opener would be one that is emotionally relevant to her and makes her actually want to invest into conversing with you further.

You could run up and tell her she’s cute, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she wants to talk with you further especially if she does it initially like your look and overall vibe right off the bat.

You could also go up and ask her for directions or her opinion on something random but neither of those things are really gonna make her care about talking with you further and less of course she just happens to really like your look and vibe right off the bat.

I’ll make a full post about this and flush it out further when I have a bit more time but essentially you want open in a way that is emotionally relevant to her and makes her want to actually put in some effort to continue the interaction past whatever the opener was.

She doesn’t know you and she doesn’t care about you so don’t make your opener about you.

A couple ways to make an opener emotionally relevant that tends to work out pretty well is to make it about her or something involving the situation that you are both currently in and where it would be socially inappropriate or rude of hernot to respond to you.

And when it comes to openers about her, the best thing you can do is make her intrigued or curious.

I’m actually heading to bed, but I will make a post about this and flesh out the concept further because I’m seeing a lot of people not understand how limiting the whole concept of direct versus indirect truly is.

 

[Ratata]

The best type of opener would be one that is emotionally relevant to her and makes her actually want to invest into conversing with you further.

You could run up and tell her she’s cute, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she wants to talk with you further especially if she does it initially like your look and overall vibe right off the bat.

You could also go up and ask her for directions or her opinion on something random but neither of those things are really gonna make her care about talking with you further and less of course she just happens to really like your look and vibe right off the bat.

This resonated with me.

Short story: I arrive at a busy train station somewhere in Sweden. I need to find some bus stop, and I ask around. I finally get to somewhere that I think might be the right place, but I'm still not sure. So, I review my options. Go back. Nah. Ask someone on the premises? Yes! But who? That old lady, that guy who seems to have everything covered or ... that super hot woman over there?

Haha. trick question! It's gonna be the hot woman! Obviously! But even so I wasn't even planning on hitting on her. I just wanted to "enjoy the sights" as it were... While getting the info I needed.

So I go over and just ask her a bunch of really mundane questions, like the lost tourist I am. At first she's like "Oh, this guy is speaking to moi?" But then out of the blue she starts giggling and blushing, and I think "Wait, is she into me? Omg!" So, what started as the most mundane bunch of "find out where the f am I" suddenly dives straight into sexual tension overload territory. I had a really hard time not getting a boner, pun not intended.

Long story short, I ask her a few questions, and she asks some things back, and we decide to continue the conversation over text. She lives in another country, so the chance of ever seeing her again is pretty slim, but that's not the point of this story. The point of this story is that even such a mundane "not approach" approach can suddenly escalate in the most wonderfully sexual thing. And then they will practically force you to take their number.

 

[James D]

I read it and I agree with everything he said.



This is what I said.



I agree that in these situations indirect may be better. My main problem with indirect is a fact that it's too random, you can't really do proper amount of approaches to succeed or learn. I'm a busy guy and i rarely have an opportunity to chill in a cafe, hoping that a hot chick will pop up next to me.

If it happens, it happens, I always shoot these shots, but I prefer to go direct, as I have better control over my approach numbers. Direct also creates more opportunites, you don't wait for context, you create it. It also creates a solid romantic frame, which gave me much better results than indirect.

Best test for yourself.

The point of an opener is, well, to open. It's to get you in a conversation with a girl.

Indirect does that well. Except it's not always possible to go indirect as I mentioned, so then direct would be more convenient.

With direct, if you concoct a great compliment backed by sincere, seductive energy, it will do more than just open the girl for sure. You get some leeway from the get-go IF she's receptive.

If something in your energy is off, i.e. you're not in state, which can happen anytime, the compliment can fall flat.

All that to say... go test.

But keep in mind:

Indirect doesn't mean non sexual. You can have plenty of sexually charged interactions opening indirect and teasing her.

And direct doesn't always mean what these influencers are doing these days.

I favour indirect these days, except for the times direct would help add context AND if the girl is so hot she triggers something in me and I have to voice it out.

 

[quiteastory]

This is an example of fast and indirect, inderect is not only opinion openers and asking for directions..

Openers - "You seem lost"

Ok guys this is a very very high odds opener, it is really good for "malls", specially outside malls, so here it how it works: - there is a mall you always go to, usually day game... or just a mall you frequent this is crucial so you know were most or all of the stores are....(for example the...

www.skilledseducer.com

You're right as well. I wrongly assummed that this is what OP meant, I've seen a lot of these cringe-ass videos of dudes running up to women on street, asking for time/directions and then akwardly trying to flirt with them out of nowhere, it hurts to watch.

Great opener btw, I'm adding it to my arsenal.

 

[Francis]

That's when I'd experiment by throwing the worst, most overly romantic (which is of course also super direct) bs I could come up with. Like perhaps lines directly from the movie Don Juan De Marco or similar. I've tried that multiple times btw and ... man if you get the delivery of that shit, watch their panties drop lolol! Women will just start giggling, and... Once there, you can even just start making out with her tbh. I've made out with women in the strangest locations due to this, like two minutes after meeting her, due to these things, usually around parks.

OK this kind of stuff seems underrated... like @Atlas IV and @Chase channeling Val Kilmer in the Saint, @James D eccentricity, Zan romanticism, @Skills just being Skills...

Are you like "in on a joke" with them, where they know you're kind of putting it on and it eventually pops back to a sincere reality? Or are they more like "who even IS this guy" and get lost in the fantasy all the way to the bedroom?

Also, just to note for all, if you peruse the members' lounge and explore Part 4 in the Grand Compendium, there is a part in Chapter 21 about indirect for the Justifiers, direct for the Deniers.

Random reminder of Ratatat

 

[Ratata]

Are you like "in on a joke" with them, where they know you're kind of putting it on and it eventually pops back to a sincere reality? Or are they more like "who even IS this guy" and get lost in the fantasy all the way to the bedroom?

How tf do I explain this... Yea, essentially you can walk her straight home from there if you've got great logistics and you're good at handling objections and bs. These invariably emerge if the interaction takes some time and she's suddenly becomes aware that "Oh shit I guess I'm going home with that guy for sex!" More on that later btw. Certainly you can escalate very quickly to a make-out. Which of course puts you on the map as "that mysterious hot guy" if you manage to contain yourself after. Or her buying temp is high, which it will be if you makeout with her and sex her up in a super confident manner in places like that. Like, she will beg you to come with her. And yeah, she will be in on it, she will want it, cuz it's a wild fantasy for them to be seduced in these places. IMHO a girl always wants to be seduced. So make her wish come true. In a seductive an attractive way of course.

Tho I'll just say this in advance, these days I'm way more chill and exclusively go for contact deets upon approach invitations, cuz I just can't be bothered. But then getting approach invitations means that you're in a special, attractive headspace anyway, so we might discuss that further too.

You've gotta be in whole 'nother head-space to pull off the super-fast park makeouts, but just know that it is possible! And if you do pull that off (and I recommend trying this at least if you're young-ish), you'll instantly go into her books as one of the most amazing things she's every experienced. Women might fantasize of of stuff like that, or perhaps read about it in dirty novels, but very few get to actually experience it. And the same goes for men lol. I've tried talking about this with regular guys, and it's just so foreign to most of them that they usually just laugh it off or hand-wave it away as pure fiction. But I figure we aren't regular men in here, so...

So, yeah, what's my state when pulling off these things? Why is it attractive?

Well, it's a bit hard to explain, but picture a dog strolling the streets, smelling trees, marking territory. Just content and maybe even a bit happy in his own world. Tongue out panting and everything. It'll maybe look at you and go "!" before moving on. Or if it comes over to you, it'll pant and be a bit curious, without going all in. In other words, it'll still contain it's own state and not be needy or creepy (unless threatened). But sometimes they go ❤ and come over for a cuddle and a scratch behind the ear. It might sniff a bit, find out about you in a non-needy way. But it's also ready to play in an instant, cuz you're a dog, and dogs are playful! So yeah, like that, only take away the dog parts and be human.......... I mean, isn't it obvious?!?!?? (Uh best I could do, ok...)

You don't have to be in this super "state" thing, but it helps if you're a bit curious, and that you don't give too much of a damn about what others think you're doing at any given moment. Hell, this is a good spot to visualize or kind of meditate.

Until you see her... Enter Mystery Method (at least for a short time). He's a master of social positioning, and the stuff he writes about that is actually good. (Meanwhile most of the verbal routines just get you in your head tbh) Here's what I found out works the best - straight outta MM. Go a little in front of the girl. Cock your head over your shoulder and open her like that. "O hi!" Then walk with her for a minute, and slow down as she hooks. Helps if you're already walking that way anyway.

(Opposite: Try to stop her from the front, or tap her shoulder form behind, and your chances of a successful open go drastically down. Thoroughly field tested. It can work, but usually doesn't compared to the cock-over-shoulder way, pun intended.)

Then plough some observations. "I couldn't help notice your cool jacket, shoes, bags, pattern, colour" - "omg what colour do you like best?" or even better "I bet your fav colour is red!" (A statement that doesn't even have to be true is like a mini cold read. Use them!) If she already gave you an approach invitation (smiled to you, or acknowledge you), you can perhaps skip the over the hook and go directly into some more comfort-building commonalities. If you want you can also go "direct" here with something like "I saw you from over there and just had to come over" kind of thing, were you're a bit more forward and confident - cuz in the end you both know why you're there, right.

Anyway, so it's when she's already a bit invested and curious about you that I'll hit her with one of these romantic bs lines. She's already hooked, and I'm turning things to 11 for a while, before taking her back down. "What do you do?" "Who me? I.... seduce women on the streets..." (Bite lips coyly and look deep into her eyes).

If it gets too intense you can always just laugh at your own joke, so to speak, and tell her "just kidding". Always have an out. But try not to use it. For science! Try to live in that uncomfortable moment, especially if it makes your dick hard at the same time. Or use it to escalate.

Btw. I assume that you're still holding her hand here, after the initial greet. This is important. It goes like this (Cred: 60), shake hands when you finally agree to present yourself to each other - but instead of letting her hand go just after - just loosen or soften the grip a bit, but keep holding onto her hand. Often this will give you a ton of great intel about her interest level, how dtf she is. From this you get a much better picture of what's possible to do fast than if you try going off other signals. Does she pull her hand away fast? Ah, she needs more comfort. Does she keep holding onto your hand, or even cuddle you a bit: Put your business socks on cuz it's business time! (I.e. she's ready for escalation.)

This is how I gauge if she's ready for more, or if I should be more careful. In the beginning, not being able to handle that, or also being too intense, may lead to more rejections. But that's also how you learn to calibrate. (Until you get frustrated, in which case it's actually better to just stop, meditate a bit, calm down, perhaps go to a coffee show and pipe down for a while, recharge for a bit, and ready for a new round.)

These things are also to a large degree mood reliant, so if you go out and try these things during a festival, you're gonna get wildly different results than if you do this like 8 O' clock in the morning during your commute...

If she does hook, I'll lock eyes with her, hypnotically, and peer and - like - peer into her soul. Maybe bite my lip during, but keep talking normally. This deep, unflinching, yet friendly look tends to turn women on wildly. Just from that alone, sexual tension may flow. And that's when you can also crack a playful joke, or say something dumb to her question back. "How about you, what do you do then?" "I... I please women....." Hold onto for a moment. Watch her giggle, and you know you've got her.

Now here's a tid-bit on LMR and objections: If you manage to qualify her as a naughty girl, and more importantly a girl that is naughty with you, then she becomes that much easier to both take home and undress once you get there. Like, most PUA doodes seem to advice the pre-empting objections with "don't think we'll have sex just because you get to go home with me!" Meanwhile I've had a way easier time going "you're such a naughty girl.... I like it!"