Observations  Do You have trouble picking average looking girls now that you're more advanced?

Dallas

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I've been seeing a pattern lately and I'm wondering if anyone can provide some insight.

Have you had trouble picking up more average looking girls (maybe HB5 to HB7 range) as you have become more advanced and mastered your fundamentals?

For reference, I have slept with around 50 girls (lost exact count after 30). I have never tried day game, have relied on social circle, night game, and online dating.

I don't think that I'm treating the more average girls differently, in fact I think I'm connecting with them better than I am with the hotter girls.

And yet for the last few months, I've had hot girls that I didn't like hit me up repeatedly while girls that weren't as attractive wouldn't come home with me or agree to a 2nd date.

I've had many girls tell may how hot I am (both average looking girls and hotter girls) yet even the average looking girls that compliment me don't want to meet up again after our first or second meeting, whether we sleep together or not.

Anyone else experience this? Any feedback would be appreciated, positive or negative.

Thanks,

Dallas
 

trashKENNUT

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Re: Do You have trouble picking average looking girls now that you're more advan

Dallas,

I will be able to point this out soon, accurately. It's more nuance than it is.
For me, it's more of like they already smell your dominance, know what you want, out of your league.

Girls register this in 2 forms

- feeling
- tangible


I believe you are number 1. You already generate this aura where girls can feel that you not so excited about them as much as they excited about you. So if you not sleeping with them on the first date, they will feel you are planning to hurt them, or disappointed that the frame is broken,

after you tone down that dominance, aura.

Second is tangible.

You not from a social circle/money stuff. So there's nothing for her to hang around. And she will feel that you will hurt her (point 1).

Zac
 

Dallas

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Re: Do You have trouble picking average looking girls now that you're more advan

Thanks Zac,

That makes a lot of sense. Will definitely try to tone down dominance a bit.
 

trashKENNUT

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Re: Do You have trouble picking average looking girls now that you're more advan

Dallas,

Toning down dominance doesn't do anything and will make her question if you don't sleep with her on the first date.
That's the unfortunate part of having power/ It's very nuance. It is always an ever learning process.

Zac
 

Carousel

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A lot of average chics and fat chics will dislike you as you move towards the elite of men.

Why?

Because high-ranking members of both sexes in terms of sexual market value tend to behave badly towards lower-ranking members of the opposite sex. That's their reference experience and therefore they may act weird, hate on you, flake etc.
 

Hue

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I think it has a lot to do with self esteem.

HB7's still have self esteem issues some of the time. This isn't to say HB9-HB10's can't have self esteem issues, too... they most definitely can (think IG models), but on I'm speaking on average. Girls with low self esteem don't respond to compliments or being opened (which, is a compliment in and of itself) like girls with high self esteem do. This then reeks havoc on how they frame you and whether you've delivered the effect on them you intended to.

LSE --> see's compliment as shallow and a way to sneak into her pants (it conflicts with her self perception)
HSE --> see's the compliment as genuine and recognizes your confidence to deliver it to her (it's congruent with her self perception)

I've experienced this first hand, and so have multiple higher ranking guys I've discussed this phenomena with. The most bitchy rejections I get are always from the pretty girls, not the gorgeous ones.

And, when specifically, in the contexts of night game, HB7's have a high quantity of guys trying to fuck them, because they're attainable in the minds of most high value guys. Most guys are too afraid to actually go for the hottest women. Well, that and the hottest women tend to pair up with the highest value men faster whereas with pretty girls you might witness more active competition. So what you get is the HB7 with everyone under her spell, controlling the interaction with her ego running wild. And hey, you might even fall for it ;)


If we are referring to attainability issues in general, then yea - if you're much higher value than the girl you're seducing you'll have to qualify the hell out of her a lot of the time. That said there are ways to be so warm in your interactions that the attainability takes care of itself and I've witnessed this in some naturals I know.


Hue
 
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Cody Lyans

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The opposite, I feel like it is less about looks and more the chemistry. So I overlook things others consider relationship killing flaws very easily. Buuuut on the flip side of course I am more picky.
I am more picky on her ambition, thoughtfulness, and understanding of me as a guy and sex/relationship maturity.
So I want to be able to eye code with her over sex and relationship ideas, I don't want her to be lazy, I don't want her to be careless about what matters to me and I want her to be conscious of my positives vs other dudes so I know my good qualities are not summed up into a box of just another Ken doll with a talk function

What I mean by this is that, if you regulate your reaction to physical attraction by adding other qualifiers you can maintain accessibility with all girls.
Mine is just an example of how not to run them off. Show openness but define what you are picky about and have it be reasonable and not stupid. Girls will respect you more and she will take pride she is more than average to you
 
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DarkKnight

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Hue actually described a situation which I was in last Sunday. I talked up to this girl who by most standard's would be viewed as a 7. However I thought off her as quite striking. And I suspect I came off as unattainable, I sensed shyness/low self esteem from her. When I talked her up she was really weird and awkward. Made me feel like a creep. However, I saw her staring at me from a distance when she thought I would not notice, (but I do, because I am batman haha). So i am quite certain there is an attainability issue.

It's really weird how fast girls can go autorejecting themselves. Usually when a girl becomes aloof without good reason it's autorejection. I really need to learn how to qualify better it is a big void within my game.

However I do not think it is more difficult to get these girls, it is just important to make them feel like you truly like them. It's more about calibration than anything else.
 

Grand Pooba

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As you become more advanced, as you rank up in attractiveness and skill, a guy's issue will generally shift from being a value problem to an attainability problem. This is the issue that you're essentially describing - girls think that you're too good, too much of a catch, to value them. Because you appear "too good" they rationalize to themselves that you'd never go for a girl like her in advance, and effectively auto-reject in advance.

The reason for this comes down to girls still looking for providers as part of their biological drive - so the question comes up for every girl "can I actually have him" unless you strictly present yourself as a lover candidate (and then she'll "have you" for one night and one night only). If your value exceeds hers, even if just a perception, she'll go into autorejection.

The solution here is to go for hotter girls whom are more on your level, or for the 7's and average women, present more byronic and vulnerable sides to yourself while also qualifying her.
 

DarkKnight

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Varoon, however sometimes you attract girls in a certain niche and repel girls in a certain niche. In that case it really becomes difficult to calibrate in advance unless you know what kind of girl likes you and what kind of girl you have in front of you. The latest posts by Oh Pry do have a lot of validity. I think the more of a niche person you are, the stronger this dynamic can be. A lot of times I found myself to be a "niche" person, except in the summer because I can show off a well built body which helps a lot or in situations where I am particularly well dressed, pre-selected etc. So these dynamics can make it a little more difficult to calibrate, but with experience it gets easier. Upgrading basic fundamentals ofcourse helps a lot. But it's not always easy to estimate whether a girl finds herself to be hotter than you, yes or no. I try to develop a better gut feeling for this as I carry on.

I have always found this to be a quite a paradox.
 

Grand Pooba

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Varoon, however sometimes you attract girls in a certain niche and repel girls in a certain niche. In that case it really becomes difficult to calibrate in advance unless you know what kind of girl likes you and what kind of girl you have in front of you. The latest posts by Oh Pry do have a lot of validity. I think the more of a niche person you are, the stronger this dynamic can be. A lot of times I found myself to be a "niche" person, except in the summer because I can show off a well built body which helps a lot or in situations where I am particularly well dressed, pre-selected etc. So these dynamics can make it a little more difficult to calibrate, but with experience it gets easier. Upgrading basic fundamentals ofcourse helps a lot. But it's not always easy to estimate whether a girl finds herself to be hotter than you, yes or no. I try to develop a better gut feeling for this as I carry on.

I have always found this to be a quite a paradox.

I'd like you to explain your thinking here a bit more, because I don't quite follow it.

The "niche" thing you describe is a matter of preference versus desire, in my view. But the attainability function still applies.
 

DarkKnight

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Okay I will do my best to be a little more specific. The following will be a hypothetic case, not based on actual numbers.

For instance you are some kind of artistic dude. Not all girls are going to be super attracted by your type, maybe 10 percent of girls. So when you interact with them you can seem unattainable, because they value you a lot. However the other 90 percent are not that much in awe with you.
You can substitute artistic with different kinds here like jocks, Asians, Aliens whatever.

When you are in a niche and are used to some kind of girl react good to you and other kind of girls react less good, it can be difficult to calibrate which kind of girl will be immediately into you. I have always found myself to be not all kind of girls cup of tea, unless they warm up to me later on. But some girls get interested right away. So when we go for hotter women, which we should do anyway, I mean why settle for less than ideal if we can help it, sometimes the perception of being hot is not immediately returned. This is as eloquent as I can explain what I am trying to convey.

So because it is not always easy to assume which girl will be into you, it can become a little murky to understand where their reactions are coming from and thus making calibration a little difficult. I try usually to use the "ACER" model by Chase which he describes in his article "how to be a challenge.." but even then it can be something less than an exact science.

However some people can have a more universal appeal , like for instance Brad Pitt and for them VAC can be a little more allround consistent.

You get my drift?
 

Teevster

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Yes, I have a hard time doing average looking girls, or girls that I am not into, because I have been sexually satisfied enough already and i know what I want.
Multiple things happen:
- She can sense that I am not that into her - hence may feel disregarded and auto-rejected
- My vibe is too strong, intimating many lower tier girls - this is a paradox, because calibration is thing to keep in mind, so in this case the right "advanced move" would be to tone it down. But hard to do when you've been on a streak or just happened to fuck a topmodel the other night.
- I am not motivated enough to put in mental effort.

So yeah it is harder.

Alek
 

Chase

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This is a great discussion.

One thing to piggyback on Grand Pooba's comment: aside from the out-of-her-league guy being out of the running as a provider, there is also an ego issue.

If you are too uninterested in her, too intimidating to her, as Alek put it, you can have girls who would've been happy to have a one-night stand with you if you were a little less of that... but when you are that way, their pride is hurt and they feel insulted and devalued just being around you.

Plenty of women will be happy to hook up with you if your value is high enough.

But they have to feel good about hooking up with you.

If they feel like you aren't really attracted to them, or don't really value them, it is very hard for them to feel good enough about that to want to hang around with you and go to bed with you.

This is (to my mind) the primary reason why high value low attainability men strike out with more average women so much... the girl just feels bad about herself being around a guy like this.

(the solution, of course, if you want to bed average girls once you've leveled up more, is to stay warmer, more relatable, more attainable, so they are still able to feel good around you. Not always as easily done as said, like Alek mentions... if you're on a streak or too tired or too cavalier to bother, you'll blow them out without trying)

Chase
 

Tony D

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I don't feel that I'm more advanced at all. I just have more experience and confidence. I feel I'm at a state of normalcy, where as when I was younger I didn't really feel good in my own skin, and women could tell.

To be real, I find cold approach to be less stressful since I teach the shit, but not easier at all. Results wise, I still have to cold approach a crap load of women to get a date, or sex from it. The big difference is I am less emotional about it, meaning I don't get too excited, nervous, or anxious. However, I still get disappointed when a girl I'm pursuing flakes on me, rejects me, or just ghosts. It shouldn't be like that, but it always has been. I'm sure a boxer who loses a fight is disappointed too, even though he knows he has to lose at some point, and has many times before.

I'm better able to predict the future, and guess when I should continue with a girl, or eject. Even when a girl says she has a boyfriend I can tell just by interacting with her if she's for real, or if I can steal her. I can tell who the time wasters are. And I can tell what sort of women I like best, personality wise.

I put a lot less effort into pickup these days, and because of that I sleep with many less women. But when I do put effort into it, I hook better, vibe better, and have a stronger effect on the women. But it doesn't get easier. You get exactly from game what you put in.
 

trashKENNUT

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Very dangerous to think that all ugly girls hate you.

I remember times when ugly girls look at me, like friends purposely infront of me, waiting for me to look at them with disgust. It's like a self defence mechanism. I get what you mean. and that often this group breeds out people that are unpleasant But this type of small nuances is why i don't need to hang out in many places to know what to do.

People are tribal and very rank-y. I notice this in myself.

I am sure if i write better, Chase will grant me the rank of 'EmperorTan'. (nah i am joking)

I just want everyone to have some 360 view. That's all.
 

K__

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There's a sexual state issue also. When you talk to a girl you're highly attracted to, your sexual desire for her shines through and that will often generate attraction in her for you. Similarly your lack of projected sexuality with an average girl shines through and is counter productive. At best it's neutral and at worst you come off not genuine/incongruent.
 
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Hector Papi Castillo

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Hue said:
And, when specifically, in the contexts of night game, HB7's have a high quantity of guys trying to fuck them, because they're attainable in the minds of most high value guys. Most guys are too afraid to actually go for the hottest women. Well, that and the hottest women tend to pair up with the highest value men faster whereas with pretty girls you might witness more active competition. So what you get is the HB7 with everyone under her spell, controlling the interaction with her ego running wild. And hey, you might even fall for it ;)

I'll never forget the night in Holland where the 7 mesmerized ALL of us and the 9 got totally ignored. Even as the 9 was leaving in sadness as she was given no male attention, I fully, emotionally realize what was going down and let her go.

Then when I snapped out of my trance later I realized I got gamed and that the 9 coulda been EASILY smashed.

I just honestly didn't think I could get her, she was too conservative, and the fun, playful 7 was easier.

Stupid thinking.

As for OP's question - yeah, it's harder for me to get cute girls interested. But once they are, they're SUPER hooked. But yes they typically have trouble seeing me consistently since they KNOW they're sidepieces and will never be anything more.

And as Hue pointed out, Low-self-esteem girls can also have the same behavior, even if they're a 10 physically.

Complimenting her and qualifying her helps a LOT, but then you'll accidentally tip it too far and now this 7 thinks ur a 6 cuz ur chasing her.

Another story:

Met up with a girl from Tinder back in Cali. She was lightly thicc on her photos but when we met...man. I got catfished. I was literally embarassed to be with her. I got her home asap, because I felt bad for her. I didn't want to walk out on her. well, once she was home i said fuck it, got high, and then tried to fuck her. We kissed, but I was persistent to make her feel good about herself, and...somehow..she got cocky. she even said to me, "Usually I'm the one who has to work hard for the boy, but now..."

I almost wanted to tell her that of course she has to work for boys, she looks like the abominable swiss cheese monster. But I didn't. I let her believe her delusions and put her on her way after she suggested we go do something in public.

I regularly gag at the memory.

So yeah, being high value ain't all it's cracked up to be. Makes getting with 7's harder xD

But makes getting with 9's easier, so ;D

Papi
 

Rain

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I was literally embarassed to be with her. I got her home asap, because I felt bad for her. I didn't want to walk out on her. well, once she was home i said fuck it, got high, and then tried to fuck her.

Did you get high because you weren't that keen, or you get high alot of times in general?

Did you get a boner for her[regardless if you slept with her]? If yes, doesn't that, I've said this in another thread, doesn't the boner test not count for "if you like someone"? It's more about if you identify with someone, since nakedness and/or touching can make most guys, and women, horny anyway?
 
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