Don't Make Getting Girls a Focus of Your Life - II

[Drck]

I guess I am becomming a narcissist, so I'm re-posting this, LOL. It's IMO good stuff...

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I had a realization recently. I saw a guy, hard working, solid man, average intelligence and education, some early 40's... Simple minded, straight forward, manly man. He kicked his GF out, moved away... She came back, crying, begging him to take her back. He showed her the door calmly, she had to leave. No negotiations, no discussion, no understanding... I don't know their story, I have no idea what she did, or if they are back together... but what I know is, that he is the fucking man, the man I am trying to describe here many times... She begged him to take her back after years of relationship, he said No... He wanted to live his live, without her... He didn't need her pussy...

I'll tell you one thing, there is no way this guy studied PUA or Seduction, yet she came back and begged him to allow her to stay... She had tremendous respect for him, she was trying to pull the typical woman crap at him, all the guilt and feeling sorry for her ass - he simply said No, all he did is pointed his finger to the door and said 'get out of MY place'...

I'll tell you, it was so refreshing to actually see on my own eyes what I am many times describing here... You don't see it in TV, you don't see it in politics, you don't hear it at your jobs, you don't read about it in books, nobody describes it in newspapers... It is almost non-existent, the man perished, the man no longer exist...

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At first, guys (I would say all of us) came here because we had or have some issues with girls. We wanted that one particular girl and it didn't work out, se we are trying to find out why not, what to do to get her back, or what to do to get the next girl...

We discover PUA, Seduction, Red Pill, MGTOW and who knows what else is out there these days... Today we have tons of great information available online, we can learn fast from experiences and direct advice of others... Younger guys (early 20's) don't even realize how lucky they are to have access to material like this, available at click of a mouse... I am envious of young(er) guys, you hold a gold in your hands and don't even know it, you hold a key to endless pussy for your entire life...

So we start improving, we start working on yourself, we start gaining experience by learning... I admit, the seduction stuff, the pussy knowledge is highly addictive. You know 100x more than average guy out there, and you still want to know ten thousand times more...

After a while perhaps you realize the the issue is not really much in learning seduction (or PUA, or Red Pill, or whatever)... The roots go further into society settings, into our human history, into behavior of our ancestors, into religious and other believes, into politics... The issue is much deeper, perhaps the issue is in being the man itself...

The problem perhaps is, that there are not so many true man idols to follow, each generation of men is weaker and weaker than the previous one... Perhaps the problem is with not having a real man example in our lives...

Personally I believe that we are - in essence - fighters, conquerors, warriors... We are the most dominant predators this Earth has ever seen...

True, evolution happened, and it is still happening, we are still evolving, millions of years we are evolving... But thanks to our smartness we also became lazier overall, too comfortable, we inherited things that are too easy on us... We no longer struggle, we no longer suffer, we no longer fight... We are no longer fighters, conquerors or warriors, we became weak and spineless pussies... and the more pussy behavior we exert the more difficult times we have with women...

That is my believe... Therefore, I believe that once guy realizes what is really going on, what is the true underlying issue, he will start working on his life, life of a man... He will start working on achieving goals, on motivation, on dominance, on masculinity itself... He will become fighter and warrior again, within social limits... He will become the masculine man as described above...

Weird as it sounds, he will also realize that seduction is actually not important at all, because the more manly and masculine he becomes, the less seduction skills he needs (again, just my personal believe)... The girls will actually start seducing him and not the other way. The girls will start changing their lives for him, the girls will start pursuing him - while he really has shifted his focus from girls elsewhere...

See what I am saying? There comes a point when seduction will actually become your obstacle. You have to exert less and less seductive behavior to be more successful with girls, if that makes sense. Any seductive attempt is only an obstacle in your way... It's quite controversial topic, but it works...

It works especially because there are not really so many 'real men' around. Girls are thirsty for real men, when they meet a real man they will do anything to get him and to keep him - which is basically the exact opposite what you learn here... They will test the shit out of you, but just because they have never met 'real man', they just can't believe their eyes, they need to verify whether it is true, and they will send their own GF's to re-test you...

Here, you are studying and learning how to seduce women by exerting certain behavior. In the life of 'real man', the girls are seducing you. Again, don't make me wrong, the stuff here is GOLD. Learning seduction or PUA or Red Pill is not the problem at all. The problem is in overall societal behavior, the problem is in majority of men behaving like pussies...

Imagine if every man learned the same behavior like the guy above... No negotiation, no pulling and pushing, no analyzing, no gaming, no deep conversations, no relationship management... Just a simple 'get out of MY place'... Where will all the girls go? Who will take care of them? Where will they live? How will they support themselves? They will be begging you and every single guy out there to take them in, they will respect you, they will seduce you, they will never be cheating on you... and you will never have to read one line about seduction, you will never have to worry not to have a good woman in your life...

 

[Ree]

i know what you are saying...seduction is a shortcut....a seducer is imitating the actions and behaviors of a masculine man.......
but here is where we disagree...that is not cheaper or fake..just because it is being a mimic...it is just a shortcut.
the rewards of being a succesful man is pussy...but be faking the mannerisms of a succesful man we get pussy...and we spread our genes...that is infact superior to actually being a succesful man.

 

[Drck]

Ok, but think about it rationally....

How much time does an average guy need to learn seduction, so he can be good with women? I would say 3 years. Some less, others more, but 3 years is reasonable amount of time....
How much time do women have to spent on improvement so she actually increases her value ? I would say very little, zero... So IMO, we guys are over-investing into girls, by default our value is low...

In general, in order to achieve something that has High Value for us, we have to work hard - whether it is education, own prosperous business, classy car, or good woman... it takes years of effort to achieve what we perceive High Value... 3 years of seduction? 4 years of college? 7 years of business? You get the point, basically by studying seduction we are over-investing into women, we are making ourselves much better men by working hard in self-improvement... By improving ourselves, we achieve our goal (pussy) and the women get great deal...

...but again, what deal are we (men) getting? Does she really have that High Value that it worths so much investment? See, by us working so hard, we are really putting them on a pedestal... we are improving ourselves to become High Value men, so we can be 'equal' or 'better' in our value...

Are we really getting a good deal that we work so hard for? I say no, we work hard but we get poor quality...

Another question, who really NEEDS the other gender? I say we men don't really need women at all. We can survive on our own, we get by on our own... However, the same doesn't apply for women, most wouldn't survive on their own... I say that women NEED us, women NEED a good men in order to have a good life, in order to survive...

I say we men are getting fooled by society, we are not getting good deal, we don't get High Value women... I say today's Value of women is well inflated, while Value of men is suppressed, pushed to the ground...

 

[The Tool]

It is simply Supply + Demand + Competition + society's values and expectations.

It is just the way the "World is".

Yes we men have to try harder to try and find a "high value" woman. But in doing self improvement, college, business expedentures we can become "High value" (subjectively speaking of course). And set ourselves apart from all the "lemmings" and "average joes". I personally love improving, gaining knowledge, and striving towards a personal goal. Whatever that goal may be.

From how I am reading (correct me if I am wrong). You want men in general to just scum about and do whatever they please while also holding the expectation that a high value woman will chase them, be with them, and do all of the hard work and improvement so all us men have to do is just "self exist".

Without competition things get stagnant. Improvements and innovation almost cease to exist. In my humble opinion. The way things are. Work great.

 

[Lotus]

You're right, we have receded from our manliness. We are no longer the same men that existed in our place for centuries before us. It's unfortunate... but it IS.

We are the lost generation. Our fathers and our fathers fathers failed to pass down the knowledge. So we have to invest in ourselves for the greater good of all men. Those 3 years that we overinvested our time into learning about women and self-improvement will save us down the line.

We invest our time now, to make our lives easier in the future. To pass down the knowledge to our sons(if you want to go that route), and their sons. It's an investment that will bring a greater return in the future.

I didn't spend time learning about women because I needed them. I learned because I didn't want to need them. Now I don't. I choose to be around them because I enjoy their company.

In addition to that, 90% of the principles that make you successful with women are directly applicable to having a more successful life.

"To increase you chances of getting laid you need to approach a ton of women before you will succeed."---> In life your going to fall but you have to get back up and learn how to take rejection in stride

"You have a girl that doesn't appreciate you, let her go, go find a new one." ----> Outcome independence. Your boss doesn't appreciate you go get a new one.

Just understanding these things changes how you react to the problems. Because of the investment I have made in women I have been ultimately x10 more successful in life.... in 2 years.

That's the way I look at it at least.... to each their own.

With my rose colored glasses.... I currently don't mind what I see... but that's just me.

 

[Drck]

I can't think about something clever, so let me use some analogy for a second; I like the business model...

Say you are a guy who makes $20K and wants to buy a $20K car (your value is $20K and the girl's value is $20K). Say just for simplicity that both the values are qual, e.g. your buying power is the same than the price of the product. The buyer is nothing extra, just average guy. The car is also just basic, good enough to drive around, but it really has no extra features (GPS, Radio, ABS, sun roof, cool rims, whatever)... Is it a good car? Sure, for it's price it is fair price...

But what if you want better car, higher quality car, a car that is selling for $30K? Well, what you have to (logically) do is to earn more, you have to earn $30K so you can efford it... Which means you have to start working harder, longer hours... You work and work, and eventually after some while you earn $30K... So now you can efford to get that car for $30K... You get some extra features, stronger motor, great. It still make sense...

Ok, but you want to keep working hard, you want even better cars with more features. So you work more and more, and now you make $100K, or even more... Is there anything wrong with your effort? I say no, keep working as hard as you want, you have a great earning potential, you can buy lots of stuff...


...What is different is, that there are no $50K or $100K cars available on the market, if that makes sense.... Your purchasing power or value is way high, if you earn $100K you can for example purchase 5 cars that are valued at $20K... But, there are no $100K cars on the market... In other words, today's girl's value is low, the girls don't provide extra features for the guys... Their value is low because due to technology there are many guys who are willing to be with girls like that...

So what is the solution? I don't have any solution. But what you guys are suggesting is, that you as a guy should keep working harder and harder, because that way you can make even more money... Does it makes sense? Sure it does. The dealer doesn't care how many cars you buy, as long as everybody is buying he keeps the quality of cars the same, between $20-$30K... There is no need for higher quality... The same with girls, as long as they get excessive attention from many guys - why do something extra for some particular guy?

As long as you are buying, and the market is saturated with buyers, the dealer is happy to sell the cars for $20K or $30K... If you were that dealer, would you try to make higher quality cars if there is enough buyers that are happy with $30K cars? I say no, but I don't know what your thoughts are... I say that girls are not improving themselves, because the market is simply saturated with buyers that are happy with what they get...

So now, let's try to apply business logic... If you are happy with $30K cars and that is all you need - why work so hard to earn $100K? True, you can buy other things too, but a the end you are still getting the same car deal no matter how much you earn... You can also keep changing cars as much as you want, but you keep getting the same deals... But what if you, and other high(er) earners STOP buying the low quality cars...? What will happen?

... and this is the exact point that I am discussing... The dealers will start panicking. Now there are plenty of buyers who earn between $30K to $100K, but nobody is buying... Nobody wants low quality cars, nobody pays attention to low quality cars... PANIC!

What happens now is, the dealer will have to supply higher quality cars... He's got to start working his ass off, he's got to improve those cars, he's got to add some GPS, more efficient motor, USB's, trims, leather seats, more MPG... The dealer he has to improve quality, he's got to offer some free services, he has to keep contacting many higher earners so they get interested in cars again... Simply said, the quality of cars has to improve because there is no demand...

So now it is the dealer who has to work his ass off by improving the quality of cars... It is the dealer who has to contact potential buyers becase he needs to sell - otherwise he'll go croak...

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So what I am in essence saying is, that the market is saturated with guys that are happy what are they getting from girls... Thanks to technology, the average girl today doesn't have restricted access to 10 local buyers only, because she can go online and get 100 or 500 buyers who are willing to 'get her'... There is way more buyers than she can hope for, there is no reason for her to improve quality... She is of course picking the highest payer, while she does really nothing to sell herself... If she is not happy with the current guy, she can easily dump him and get another one the next day...

It is of course logical that every guy should be improving and increasing his value, but at the same time you want to get high(er) quality girl too... So IMO the correct logic is to decrease the demand for lower quality girls - girls that don't move finger for guys, girls that don't respect guys, girls that dump any guy thay want with no consequences because they can find another one the very same day...

IMO it is correct logic, yet at the same time it is most likely not possible in real life... In real life guys don't care about quality, all they care is how to get that pussy... Guys that bit into Red Pill or MGTOW, or whatever else is out there, sort of realized that they are being dupped, they realized that they are paying very high price for low quality products... Some chose to improve, others chose not to participate in the market... Who is right or wrong? There is no such thing as right or wrong, if one wants to keep paying high price for low quality, it is his - and only his - choice...

There are many quality girls that work their assess off to get a good, decent guy... They are just not seen in USA, and if so very rarely... The market in USA is too saturated with guys who are willilng to pay high price for low(er) quality, there is simply no reason for the girls to rise their value...

 

[Lotus]

Okay, so the car market is fucked, or it's not in an ideal state. Some people will argue the difference but it's besides the point.

People are paying 30k for cars valued at 5k. We are buying cars that look like Porsche's but have shit interiors and are built with parts from the junkyard. Okay, I can accept that premise.

But the best/easiest way to fix the car market is to educate the market. It's a lot more challenging to fix the market by boycotting cars altogether. If I boycott the market then I have to figure out another way to get to work. The car dealer doesn't make 30k, but I suffer way more then he does. I mean I could buy a bike and it would work, but it would be way less fun. I don't need that dam car, but I want that dam car.

Maybe I'll get used and abused by a dealer once, or twice. But it would be much more profitable for me to drive a shit load of cars. Learn what makes a good car vs a bad car. Check out the trunk, sleep in the back, play with the steering wheel. Use all of the great features of the car whenever I want. I'd like to learn what makes a good car and then keep one in my drive way to use it whenever I want. I don't want to call Uber or whip out my bike

I'll invest time in learning all about cars so I only ever buy good ones or at least the ones I prefer to drive....

The thing about cars though is they can't change their true value.

Women however can change their true value depending on how bad they want to and how strong your frame is.

The market is saturated because the buyers don't know what they want. Because the buyers don't know what they want neither do the sellers. Once the buyers know the sellers will react in kind.

That's the amazing thing about women... they can be whatever you want them to be.....

Taylor

 

[Drck]

I agree with you Taylor, but at the same time not, LOL. Good and smart points.

"But the best/easiest way to fix the car market is to educate the market"

>>>> True. The thing is though, if there are many buyers for current goods (at particular price), the dealer has no reason why he or she would have to increase quality.

If you make a product and sell it for example for $20 on the market, and you always have lots of buyers interested - would you increase the products quality for no reason?

I don't believe so... You are selling it for that price and you are happy. You would, as a good businessmen, want to increase the price of the product so you can eventually make more money though. So you would want to increase the quality and price at the same time...

But here is where the business analogy doesn't apply in real life: The girls already have lots of good and nice guys that want to take them out, take them home, marry them, protect them, have family with them and so forth...

The girls don't have to increase any quality - they can sleep around, they can live as single moms, they can be disrespectful to any man they want - and still have lots of nice guys who are willing to take them in... Why would she want to be better if she is already getting a good deals everywhere she looks? She can marry the guy, she can work half time (if not fully quit her job and stay home), she doesn't really have to take a good care of her children, she doesn't really have to clean up and cook (take good care of family), she doesn't really have to sit down and teach her children after school is done... She doesn't have to take a great care of herself either (remain skinny, sexy and fit for many years, work actively on managing anxiety and depression and so forth) .... Yet she will always get away with it. She can divorce the good guy anytime she wants (apparently 80% of divorces are originated by women), and have another guy taking care of her in couple months, if not weeks... The good guy ends up with the bill, broken heart, and anger/depression for years...

In the suggested model, she only worth $20K, while the guy(s) spent on her $50K, if not $100K...

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"Women however can change their true value depending on how bad they want to and how strong your frame is"

>>>> Agreed 100%. But lots of guys are Nice Guys. How many, 70%? More? So that is the frame in real life... Nice Guys take care of them, nice guys buy things for them, nice guys protect them, pay for them... That is the frame, the girls live in Frame of Nice Guys... The Market is saturated with Nice Guys... The girls don't really want the value of Nice Guys, they want value of Bad Boys...

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"The market is saturated because the buyers don't know what they want. Because the buyers don't know what they want neither do the sellers. Once the buyers know the sellers will react in kind. "

>>>> Um, I also agree 100%, there is nothing wrong with that logic. However, the Nice Guys (buyers) know exactly what they want: They want to invest into that girl, they want to take care of her, love her. They want faithful woman, great girl that will marry them, love them, take a good care of children and so forth...

In other words, Nice Guys do already have a good and solid frame, but because there is so many Nice Guys around the girl(s) can easily move from one guy to another, and she knows that she will be always protected, taken care of, worshiped...

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"That's the amazing thing about women... they can be whatever you want them to be..."

>>>> Yes, also agreed 100%... BUT - Why don't they become what the majority of guys (Nice Guys) want them to be? Why doesn't the girl exert her own effort, why doesn't she learn to become that perfect girl that fits into the Nice Guy's frame? The frame of Nice Guy is also strong, very strong. Why doesn't she change for him?

....back to square Zero... It is always the Nice Guy (You, me and the rest of the guys here) who have to work our asses off... we work hard so we can become the attractive Bad Boys, because solid Nice Guy's frame is not attractive to girls... We have to learn seduction, we have to work hard on self improvement and so forth - while the girl does ZERO... And it is then us who believe that after all this great work and investment into self improvement we are getting a great deal...

Really? Aren't girls suppose to adjust to guy's frames, change to what we want them to be, as you say?

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...That is what I'm saying... We guys/men already do too much for girls, we are already overpaying, we are already investing high price for low quality... And yet we want to do more, and more... not realizing that doing more is actually adjusting our Frame to theirs - their frame is basically "Do Nothing for him, the less the better", and we are happily adjusting to it... In essence, by all of our effort we just following their frame...

So who is the true leader? Who is the smart one? I'm telling you, the girls are 500 if not 1000 years ahead of us, we are only following their frame - while believing they are following our frame, LOL

So here is my conclusion:

All it really takes for Nice Guys (all of us here) is to keep our original frame of being a Nice Guy... "I will be Nice Guy, and I will never change for any woman. I will not move a finger for woman unless she adjusts to my frame. Love it or leave it, either take the deal or I won't do anything for your happiness. Feel free to walk, but I will never protect any woman that walks away from any other Nice Guy" ...where are these girls going to run for protection, for safety and comfort - are they really going to run after all the Bad Boys - who don't give a damn about them at first place? I don't think so... Women NEED Nice Guys, women NEED protectors and saviors, women NEED men that will comfort them...

 

[Ree]

Drck..its true we have to work harder because ....not because we are not manly enuff...butbecause.women are simply more in demand than men.
this is true in most animals where the female incurs higher biological cost....
we are descendants of promiscous males...women are descendants of shy coy females.....there is more demand for women than supply....thats how it has always been

 

[GeneralFap]

You can be a masculine, high testosterone man and still be clueless about women's behavior and how to deal with it, and youre inevitably going to end up cucked.

 

[Lotus]

However, the Nice Guys (buyers) know exactly what they want: They want to invest into that girl, they want to take care of her, love her. They want faithful woman, great girl that will marry them, love them, take a good care of children and so forth...

Because they think that's the only way to keep her. They don't actually want all those things, they just think they do. If they knew what the result of overinvesting in a girl was.... in the long term... they would think twice.

Sure the girl could move on and find another guy to bend to her will. But our focus should be on that guy. Isn't 3 years of study worth not having to lose half of everything?

3 years is nothing compare to what could be lost, in my opinion.

and you said girls are 500 years ahead of men... than what's 3 years compared to 500.

Pick up isn't about getting her. It's about not needing her, but choosing her.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your end goal is to have women and men invest 50/50 or women invest more?

I'm personally fine with investing more, in self-improvement, over the long term because I know that I have the power of choice.

 

[BlackBolt]

@Drck
Would you agree with my view that after you achieve a certain amount of success with pick up(it can vary person to person but let's say after you reached abundance mentality) that men should focus on either achieving money/power/influence or fulfilling their purpose and putting women on the backburner? Like let's say James Bond for example always focusing on achieving the mission and never really on the woman. Where in real life gaining influence or fulfillment of our purpose is the mission and the women we pursue are Just on the peripheral (we still deep dive, move fast, etc) but our heart really lies in our mission?

 

[Drck]

Ree: Drck..its true we have to work harder because ....not because we are not manly enuff...butbecause.women are simply more in demand than men.

GeneralFap: You can be a masculine, high testosterone man and still be clueless about women's behavior and how to deal with it

Lotus: Pick up isn't about getting her. It's about not needing her, but choosing her

BlackBolt: Would you agree with my view that after you achieve a certain amount of success with pick up(it can vary person to person but let's say after you reached abundance mentality) that men should focus on either achieving money/power/influence or fulfilling their purpose and putting women on the backburner?

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In my view, all these are talking about certain mindset. Let's call it masculine mindset. A guy can have muscles from fitness, but his mindset doesn't necessary have to be masculine. In the same way, a guy who can't lift 20 pounds because he is physically weak, he can have quite solid masculine mindset. It just happen that muscular guy is more likely to have masculine mindset because: by lifting heavier weights he has higher levels of testosterone, he usually has some determination and goal, he is disciplined and focused, and so on.

So GeneralFap is correct, a man can have high levels of testosterone, he can have quite big muscles, but at the same time his mindset can be weak - but it is rather unlikely, he just doesn't know how to behave around women...

Same with Lotus, it is correct that pick up up isn't about getting her and needing her - by having masculine mindset, a man doesn't really need her, because he is primarily focused on achieving success in different areas, just like BlackBolt said: Money, power... but also fitness and other things that he consider important in his life. So correct, by focusing on these things he is basically putting her on a back burner, they are not that important in his life. On the list of his priorities, she is down to 3rd or 4th place, and she is never on 1st place.

This is very attractive because he has his own life no matter what (and she feels it), he is focused and determined on achieving success where she is not the object of his success, and he is leading her by default (she has to fall in his frame, she has to follow him and adjust to his lifestyle). In other words, she doesn't want be the primary focus of this guy's attention, it freaks her out.

So whether she is in his life or not, he just keeps living his life, pursuing his long term goals. He doesn't collapse emotionally in case she leaves. This sort of gives her a certain freedom, she doesn't have to feel responsible for his depression in case she leaves. It is very basic yet powerful masculine frame, should the guy be attractive enough (and fundamentals generate great attractiveness), it might take some time but she will usually fall in his frame.

So called Nice Guys, you and me, have default masculine frame incorrect. Our primary focus was to put her as number one on the list of priorities. We drop everything and we just focus on getting that girl. We stop going to fitness, we stop going after out long term goals - and we spent 80% of our free time on learning seduction (as Ree says, now we work much harder than girls). Not for week or two, but for 3 years. I am simply saying, that 80% of our free time should be focus on getting our long term goals done - such as getting career, money, achieving goals in fitness and so forth - whereas only 20% should be spent on seduction, on that girl that is around. The girl is just sort of on periphery of our live, we pay some attention to her, we exert some effort to have her, but we are simply busy. Again, this is very powerful masculine frame...

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In real life: How about a date today? She asks. Sorry, can't go today or tomorrow, got to go to fitness. But I'm free on Wednesday, is 6 good for you, or do you prefer 7?

See, this guy doesn't worry about seduction or getting her. He is worrying about getting his fitness (or whatever) done, and if he has a free time he will fit her there.

But I can't go Wednesday, she says. Either today or Thursday, I really want to see that movie. Now weaker masculine guy's frame will collapse. He will say: ok, lets go to the movies today. And he loses. He may have a great date today, he may get laid today, but he set a weak frame. He is now operating in her frame. More masculine frame guy says: Hm, neither of these really works for me, I got to do some stuff. We will have to postpone till Saturday then...

Now see what this does to her frame. He postponed the date, thus the possibility of having sex. He is not needy to get to her pants, she knows that they can have sex today, yet he simply declines by couple days. Now she has to wait for him, he will only go for a date when he has a time. Her frame will collapse. Never mind that he is a challenge to her, she now knows that she is not a priority in his life. She knows he has a life, and she will be curious what is more important in his life than her, the hot girl? Fitness is more important, and washing his socks is also more important. She is only on 3rd place...

So she HAS to throw a shit test at him, because she's never seen anything like that in her entire life, no other guys behave like that, no other guys will shrug shoulders and walk away from her without even trying to get to her pants. She throws a shit test or two at him then, but this guy doesn't move. His frame is solid, there is no way he will change because of her. Her frame is now fried, collapsed, she doesn't know what to do, she's got to work very hard to figure this guy out. Exactly...

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I'm tired, not in the mood to see women. She comes around, with quite high energy. Shows interest. Who cares? Glassy, bored look. I'm not moving a finger to get her. Nice chit chat, good vibes. Got BF? Or did she say she is married? How cool, like I give a damn. Every girl got a guy in her life, go have fun with him then. Not a word about sex, I'm just not interested. She's getting frustrated now. What is wrong with this guy? She must be thinking. She is throwing around all the hints that she is interested, playing with hair, showing armpits, deep looks, talking about place to go... How great. But Boring. I better go home now. Frustration. Follow me she says. Ok, why not. She walks to the bathroom, takes her shirt off to show me something interesting. Spread her hair around so I can't miss it. Yawn. I'm really tired now, does she really think I'm going to have sex in the bathroom? Oh no, I'm going home. She will either have to go to my place, or no sex at all. Her frame is fried... I didn't seduce her, nor even tried. I didn't move a finger, just sticked to my frame...

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Never met a guy who was seriously good with girls but didn't spend a large majority of his youth or still current day courting women and socializing.

You might be attractive and powerful, but until you put that work in to understand women, you don't really have game.

Hector

 

[PrettyDecent]

Never met a guy who was seriously good with girls but didn't spend a large majority of his youth or still current day courting women and socializing.

You might be attractive and powerful, but until you put that work in to understand women, you don't really have game.

+1

Nick

 

[Drck]

I disagree Hector. I've met many guys who are doing just fine, and they never spent much time on seduction, PUA or knowledge of women.

It of course also depends on what you define "good with women" (true, socializing is important)

 

[Ree]

Never met a guy who was seriously good with girls but didn't spend a large majority of his youth or still current day courting women and socializing.

You might be attractive and powerful, but until you put that work in to understand women, you don't really have game.

Hector

true...most of what people call naturals...are just guys with good looks who know many girls but don't lay a fraction of them...either tht or cool kids in college who never get laid after they graduate...I kniw people who it gets so bad that they go to school again just for the girls