Emotional Time vs Linear Time

[Jan]

I've been thinking about the tactical side of things recently, and I've realized that I trip myself often when it comes to timing.

There are these concepts in our community like: move fast, walk away, don't miss escalation windows, persevere, etc.

All these concepts are related to decision making: when should you escalate, when should you eject, when you should just keep doing what you are doing.

Growing up with Mystery Method, I was fixed on the idea of 8 hours seduction. I came to conclusion that believing in this concept, made me much more harm than good.

Experience taught me (especially fast, 30-60 minutes meet-to-sex situations) that things can go much faster. On the other hand, I also had many situations when I spent way more time than 8 hours with a woman, and things'd gone to shit.

What I want to say in this post, is that you should NOT pay attention to linear time. Instead, you should pay attention to emotional time.

Emotional time is the time when an emotion exists. Every emotion has expiration time - therefore escalation windows.

Examples of decision making based on emotional time:
- you look at her, and see her looking at you/smiling, you feel little excitement (emotion) -> approach
- you sit next to her, and you see her looking at you with big eyes (attraction) -> touch her
- you try to isolate her, but she prefers to stay with her friends (resistance) -> back off or "be gone"

So basically, you never look at your watch to make a decision, instead of you look at the emotion, and let the emotion be your guide.

 

[Francis]

Yes you got it!!

Mystery would agree. M3 is a model of HER emotional readiness and compliance stage.

The things in the OP brackets are IOI's and IOD's.

^ photo of Mystery in a sexual frame

Time is not the magic formula. That's backwards. The time is just his average data from testing her compliance... dealing with girls in West Hollywood who may have been initially resistant.

 

[Jan]

The time is just his average data from testing her compliance...

Yeah, it's a statistical average. But what is the point of knowing this average? Honestly, for me, this knowledge was detrimental. From seduction perspective process, it gives you nothing. And if you are an analitical and judmental type like me, it made things worse than not knowing. I got this average in my head, and I judged myself against it, making me feel bad about myself when I did worse than the average, and taking my attention away from what's truly important for seduction - emotion and it's duration.

 

[Francis]

Yeah, it's a statistical average. But what is the point of knowing this average? Honestly, for me, this knowledge was detrimental. From seduction perspective process, it gives you nothing. And if you are an analitical and judmental type like me, it made things worse than not knowing. I got this average in my head, and I judged myself against it, making me feel bad about myself when I did worse than the average, and taking my attention away from what's truly important for seduction - emotion and it's duration.

Makes sense! For me the point of knowing that is helpful is more to do with sequencing steps. I've also had multiple seductions extend over many months. I think another thing he does is NOT disqualify himself as a boyfriend. He kind of goes for the opposite. If you watch him explain pickup to women in his interviews, it's almost like he dates like he's a hot girl.

But I had already had really fast hookups before even knowing who Mystery was. I never had cable TV growing up lol. So that was lucky for my inner game or whatever. Limiting beliefs, etc. It's interesting to see Mystery criticism, but I learned Led Zeppelin (Chase) before the blues, so I've always looked at it through a lens.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

An upside/downside of the faster pull is lower emotional involvement on her part, which means it's much easier to extricate yourself if you find out that you're not actually a match. Whereas if you do the full 8 hours and you do the full deep dive, there are really good chances that she'll move you out of the lover boy category into the potential boyfriend category, and that status will be consummated when you complete the ACT.

In my opinion, we really want to strike at the animal passions, and not all of the emotional, social, and intellectual angles.

The more a chick digs me on these other levels, and it's not straight passion, The more likely she will want to fast forward a hook up into a full-blown relationship.

 

[Francis]

An upside/downside of the faster pull is lower emotional involvement on her part, which means it's much easier to extricate yourself if you find out that you're not actually a match. Whereas if you do the full 8 hours and you do the full deep dive, there are really good chances that she'll move you out of the lover boy category into the potential boyfriend category, and that status will be consummated when you complete the ACT.

In my opinion, we really want to strike at the animal passions, and not all of the emotional, social, and intellectual angles.

The more a chick digs me on these other levels, and it's not straight passion, The more likely she will want to fast forward a hook up into a full-blown relationship.

Man that is good nuance...

For me it started like deep dive = her connection (Chase research... one way, even knowing jack shit about you) = trust = compliance = fucking

 

[Francis]

Hit post by accident...

Then I really started deep dive maxxing and took it too far. Powerful shit though...

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Hit post by accident...

Then I really started deep dive maxxing and took it too far. Powerful shit though...

Yeah, everyone has a deep need to be understood. The more you can finish get sentences, predict what she's going to say, anticipate her specific needs - the more she can get attached. Emphasis on "can", as opposed to "will".

"He really gets me".

Like angry toddlers that can't communicate, often times they're hungry. So feeding them really gets at emotions they don't have language to express.

Humans really never change this.

Do the same thing with a broad, be the guy that sees past the language and deep into those parts of the mind that don't know how to express themselves..

But it's not one way thing, nor is it predictable.

This is fictional, but it rings true for guys in relationships

TL/DW - Betty is mad at Don because he knows her too well. She feels exposed here, and gets mad as hell. Arguably there's a lot going with their relationship as is, but it's this constantly shifting ground that you most notice in a long term relationship, but you can sense early on.

 

[Francis]

Do the same thing with a broad

lol you watch mad men huh

PUA still has an image marketing problem... these big bad players are really the most emotionally intelligent dudes.

But it's not one way thing

do you mean like a grounding identity story is essential? or relating back with personal tidbits, etc.? I can't seem to find the research I'm thinking of.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

PUA still has an image marketing problem...

What does this mean?

 

[Francis]

What does this mean?

negative public perception of the word associations. like a "pickup artist" is a negging dark triad manipulator (which we know is only 80% true lol jk)

Chase does a great job making it all palatable for the general public. It is hard to find examples that aren't Mystery, but like even on a relatively recent Sirius radio interview, he is still having to justify it.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

negative public perception of the word associations. like a "pickup artist" is a negging dark triad manipulator (which we know is only 80% true lol jk)

Chase does a great job making it all palatable for the general public. It is hard to find examples that aren't Mystery, but like even on a relatively recent Sirius radio interview, he is still having to justify it.

@alexhunter8 recently asked me why do so many guys from forum stay private and underground.

I think this is the biggest reason that it can be really hard to justify being a pua over just being naturally good with women.

 

[Francis]

once you’ve established attraction and trust with her, similarity-building stops working (Singh, Tay, & Sankaran, 2016)

Chase on C2:

The superior strategy is to work arousal and compliance in as you go while you take her through the connection date. That way there is no rushed buildup or shift. It all happens at once.

^ important to OP on "linear" pickup. every VAC and SAC element is relevant to every stage of M3 (compliance being the forward linear movement from meet to mate). A1 & A2 are mostly group theory. A2 lock-in against the bar is like the move off the sidewalk. A3 is tripped into through literally any telegraphing of interest whatsoever (including sexual eye contact that implies interest/intent !!). Moving to C1 is missed by day-gamers, like that's getting her to follow you ten feet to the park bench, then C2 is the insta-date.

Time progresses regardless.

 

[Jan]

^ important to OP on "linear" pickup.

my critique is not about linear pickup (or more precisely sequential pickup), it's about duration of each stage
what I'm saying is that you should pay attention to the duration of an emotion which is present in each stage instead of some average number of minutes or hours per stage/full process

 

[Francis]

my critique is not about linear pickup (or more precisely sequential pickup), it's about duration of each stage
what I'm saying is that you should pay attention to the duration of an emotion which is present in each stage instead of some average number of minutes or hours per stage/full process

Ohh ok yeah I agree.

A1 - done at social hook point
A2 - done at IOI
A3 - done at her DHV / reward
Move - done if compliance
C1 - done if she trusts you
Bounce - done if compliance
C2 - done if connection
Bounce - done if compliance
C3 - done if she's comfortable in isolation
Move - done if compliance
S1 - done if she engages in foreplay
S2 - done if p in v
S3 - done after p in v

 

[Glow]

my critique is not about linear pickup (or more precisely sequential pickup), it's about duration of each stage
what I'm saying is that you should pay attention to the duration of an emotion which is present in each stage instead of some average number of minutes or hours per stage/full processt

This is spot on. The focus on sensing her is quite powerful.

Beware there is a state transfer time which is chemical for her to process the state change though.
But its smarter to focus on the emotion as a signpost than any time frame.
Just smart to be aware about the chemical change need in the body - a general slower thing that demands some time.

Tuning more into the emotion also helps you to recognise states and see eg if she is in stage 5 ready to pull allowing you to go straight into behaviors appropriate to the stage eg at wolf hour at the club. Or if you see shes receptive+ to you(she likes you and its clear) but not sexually activated yet.

This is about developing seductive intuition, coined back in the days eg as make-out intuition(the letter) - the latter as an example makes us go eg from clumsy kiss approaches into smooth kissing cause we could feel when she is make out ready, then smoothly grow that building it up for a more loaded kiss or what one prefers, via micro escalations, smoothness, containment etc.

 

[POB]

This is spot on. The focus on sensing her is quite powerful.

Beware there is a state transfer time which is chemical for her to process the state change though.
But its smarter to focus on the emotion as a signpost than any time frame.
Just smart to be aware about the chemical change need in the body - a general slower thing that demands some time.

Tuning more into the emotion also helps you to recognise states and see eg if she is in stage 5 ready to pull allowing you to go straight into behaviors appropriate to the stage eg at wolf hour at the club. Or if you see shes receptive+ to you(she likes you and its clear) but not sexually activated yet.

This is about developing seductive intuition, coined back in the days eg as make-out intuition(the letter) - the latter as an example makes us go eg from clumsy kiss approaches into smooth kissing cause we could feel when she is make out ready, then smoothly grow that building it up for a more loaded kiss or what one prefers, via micro escalations, smoothness, containment etc.

This is what pacing, combined with micro-escalations + push-pull can do for you.
It's a nuance that requires a lot of fine tuning to be mastered.
Kinda like driving faster and faster cars, which demands a lot more shifting and pedal work than your usual popular vehicle.

@alleniverson just wrote a very nice report where this concept appears, but he could not exactly put it into words.