- Joined
- Nov 14, 2017
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- 305
This particular girl I met in a quite atypical fashion — I usually do day game — so before I get to my present concerns, the meeting itself deserves some explanation!
1. Meeting The Girl
I have a friend, Justin, who Iʼve known a few years through our involvement in the production end of certain cultural events in our city. Iʼm not from that culture, but have found it interesting, and also the women are a lot prettier to me than the cityʼs average demographic.
I should probably note that Justin both sees me as quite the ladiesʼ man, and talks like one himself — and that itʼs respected in his culture in a way that itʼs not in the cuckold West.
Anyway, Justin had me over to his home for Christmas. I hadnʼt known any of his family apart from his wife. Other than Darion, another friend, most of the guests were Justinʼs adult children — mostly daughters, at least six of them, — and their own mostly small children.
Three of the daughters I found pretty cute. I was really drawn to one of them, Tizzia, who Iʼd met before the others arrived. Early 20s. Bubbly personality and manner of speech. Attractive face, unfortunately adorned with some really gawdy cosmetics. Nice body; sheʼd later tell me she used to be a stripper. Iʼm not usually as much into the light-skinned black girls (my ideal is one of those tall, midnight black, cherub-faced South Sudanese), but I still like the really cute ones like this one. She has a small child who presently lives with the grandparents while she lives alone.
Iʼm actually not sure if Tizzia is Justinʼs daughter, granddaughter, or maybe even grand‑stepdaughter. I thought Iʼd heard granddaughter but canʼt remember 100% and heʼs since implied otherwise — maybe trying not to seem old, hahaha! By ages, she could be his grandchild. Heʼs easily old enough to be my father, and although I donʼt look it, I in turn am somewhat old enough to be her father, lol.
Here and there I indulged my temptations to check out Tizzia — mostly when she wasnʼt looking, although Iʼm not that worried if a girl does catch me, because Iʼve learned not to be ashamed of it. There were a few points where she randomly looked at me in a way that made me wonder if maybe I was having an effect on her, too. Sometimes I intentionally didnʼt look. Other times our eyes met for a few moments without saying anything.
It felt a little bit strange and scandalous to be sexually attracted to my friendʼs daughter or granddaughter or whatever the heck she was, but eventually I gave in to nature and decided that Iʼd try to seduce her if the chance arose. Resisting wouldʼve been hard enough for me that if I succeed, it would be equally true to say that she seduced me. Really, itʼs nature that seduces men and women both.
Certain man/woman pairs I feel just naturally have a certain innate sexual tension between them... really subtle, but there. Unless you spoil it. There was one point where it wouldʼve been natural to sit beside Tizzia due to it being the only spot left to sit, but I sensed that doing so at that point may have killed the tension, so I stood briefly instead, and then left the room.
I did talk to the girl at a few points during the get-together, but only briefly. Iʼm very aware that most interaction that doesnʼt specifically help a seduction instead by default harms it, so I try to keep interactions minimal where I donʼt feel Iʼll be able to direct them the way I want.
At first sheʼd been a bit reserved with me — even speaking of me indirectly in front of me. She became friendlier once she saw that her (grand?)parents and Darion like me.
Our first conversation was opened casually by her, and related to the cultural events Justin and I are involved in. I was friendly but wandered off after a minute.
Later, I opened her while she was alone in the kitchen and we talked just for a minute or two before I left.
One of the other daughters casually opened me a couple times and I was personable but neither of us made any effort to converse further. She was fairly cute too, but I suspected she was in a more serious relationship. I mostly conversed with Justin and Darion. Of the mass of people there, most were female or kids, lol.
At some point in the evening, with the small living room packed with little kids and their presents, Tizzia sat on the plush arm of the chair I was on such that her ass was literally right in front of me. Well, there werenʼt a lot of places for her to sit, and indeed one of her (I guess) sisters was plopped on the other arm, albeit a little less directly. God, what a tease! I wanted to touch Tizzia, but given the context I had no idea how to do it smoothly, so I didnʼt. What could I have done? Playfully written on her back, maybe? Hahaha! I wish Iʼd think of stuff like that on the spot!!!
Actually, I coulda played with her easily. Like, when she goes to pass by me, stick out my legs to block her, with a crafty smile. It kills me how much shit I always think of only after the fact. I despise having been raised as a shy, harmless little mouse.
2. More Substantial Interaction
Some time in the night, Justin set out to drive Darion, Tizzia and myself home.
As we were going to Justinʼs car, Tizzia remarked to me, “I hope you liked my family.”
I lucked out and we both ended up in the back seat, albeit with a large physical obstacle between us that mostly prevented any kino (which I also hadnʼt done earlier) except once. Darion rode shotgun. This is where I interacted with Tizzia much more substantially. As I chatted with her, Justin and Darion engaged in separate conversation, so although we technically didnʼt have any privacy, we were afforded some measure of it.
I started by asking her what made her want 3 inch eyelashes. (I was exaggerating on purpose, although next time Iʼm going with 10 inch.) She related it to her interest in cosmetics and explained they come in different lengths. I told her with sincerity that sheʼd be prettier without it. She was like, “aww thank you,” and remarked she doesnʼt always wear cosmetics and hadnʼt the day before. But she lives downtown and you never know who youʼre going to run into, so she doesnʼt like to go out plain. Told her she doesnʼt give herself enough credit.
She said who knows, she might run into (as Iʼm thinking, “let me guess, Drake”) Drake. Teased her over the fact that I was just about to say Drake. Asked her, “do you think Drake is actually gonna care if you have 3 inch eyelashes?” She explained it as being more of a confidence boost. I accepted this and segued into her interests.
Tizzia was doing the large majority of the talking, which I felt was fine. She opened up a fair bit. The majority of this was on her business ambitions; on one hand, I was hoping to get a bit more personal, but on the other hand this seems like a huge part of her psyche, so in a way it was.
At some point in the course of explaining some personal strategy, she remarked, “if you and I married, letʼs say, and you were a [professional of a particular field relevant to her], then Iʼd try to feed off of your knowledge of [that field]”. The possible significance of her having stated this in the second person did not escape me. This sort of role playing is a seduction tactic when the shoe is on the other foot, and Iʼve only had women do this spontaneously on extremely rare occasions. Hell, I donʼt even do it myself.
But since I firmly regard marriage for a male as “game over, you lose”, I most probably leaked some slightly disapproving body language, though I didnʼt really address it one way or another overtly. I didnʼt take the chance to expand on her role playing, though maybe I should have.
When discussing her ambitions, she volunteered that she doesnʼt want another kid. However, she quickly pointed out that sheʼs spontaneous and might change her mind quickly with the right guy. I almost wonder if the about‑turn at the end was a product of not wanting to disqualify herself. I had been silently relieved at her not wanting a next kid, but only because she isnʼt Nuer or Dinka or even particularly tall or dark, and because she loves cosmetics. As much as Iʼm crazy to, I actually do want a kid, and though I hadnʼt said it, I almost wonder if I had leaked some unconscious disappointment at her having just diminished my prospects of knocking her up.
She did at some point mention incidentally something like, “my relationship is good, but I need space.” Nothing in her body language or context made it seem to me like this relationship is serious.
At some other point while discussing her ambitions, the girl said something rather scandalous, at which point I addressed my friend in mock disapproval, “Justin did you hear what your progeny just said?!?” From the corner of my eye I booked a sheepish smile from her. Hahaha I love doing shit like that, as rare as the opportunities come to me.
He confusedly stammered out, “What?”, to which I replied, “Never mind.” I donʼt think the two were listening to us at all. I think we had lost them at the eyelashes and her being pretty bit. XD
The girl is quite ambitious, albeit in a slightly scatterbrained way. She told me sheʼd previously been a stripper but now wants to create an empire, based on several loosely related and unrelated avenues. She manifested a certain degree of indecision and ambivalence in her exact approach.
I didnʼt reveal much about myself (she was naturally very talkative and I just rolled with it), although I did drop some slight hints that I might have knowledge or connections relevant to some of her pursuits. I made a few off-hand (actual) suggestions. I tried not to get into that too much as I didnʼt want to create a dynamic of being of more practical than sexual use to her.
I made a point to try to grab her number at a high point, and it seemed to work well.
Normally Iʼd have proposed a meet right there, but I was unfortunately just a tad inhibited by a parent being in earshot. (Mental note: the next time youʼre hitting on a girl itʼs somewhat scandalous to be hitting on, just own it. Be shameless or else donʼt do it at all. Thereʼs no point taking the risk of getting caught doing something if youʼre doing it ineffectively. Like my childhood friend whose dad gave him an extra good ass whooping not because he was caught shoplifting, but because what he teefed wasnʼt even valuable. LMAO.)
Instead I just said that Iʼd like to hear more about her ideas, and passed her my phone. She entered her number without resistance.
I tried to text her right then. When she didnʼt get it after a minute, she recited her number. Sheʼd gotten a digit wrong in typing it. After correcting, I called her, and saw she got the call, at which point I reminded her my name so as to save my contact.
We chatted a little bit more. She cut herself short due to our reaching her home, at which point she said that we would talk more, and in a tone that suggested she actually wanted to.
3. Risk Management
[Iʼm comfortable with this part, so feel free to skip this section.]
This approach was different from most I make. Though I have done it before, I rarely hit on girls in social circle, preferring day game. Social circle is unique among the major styles of game in that, if you fuck up badly enough, there could be repercussions beyond just an ego bruising. And someoneʼs daughter is about the riskiest social circle pull you could possibly attempt! It doesnʼt help that Justin has proven to be helpful in getting opportunities to hit on random women in contexts where the demographics are heavily skewed in favor of my taste in women, and in some cases with very good social proof.
I didnʼt contact Tizzia on the 26th, mainly because I wasnʼt entirely sure if I wanted to take that risk, and had to really think about it.
I finally decided the possible benefits somewhat outweigh the risks, provided Iʼm careful. (Or, in other words, sex hormones have completely destroyed my brain.)
In particular, I decided on something Iʼm going to do if I get the girl out for coffee. When, as she probably will, she exposes her mercenary and unbridled ambition, Iʼm going to say to her, “Just to warn you, if you and I have a baby, sheʼs going to be trying to take over the world by age three.” Watch her reaction, and if she laughs or smiles, momentarily grab her thigh with a sly smile. And again watch her reaction.
Some readers may wonder just how such a brazen act could possibly constitute risk management!
The answer lies in what my mental survey deemed the most credible, severe, and imminent risk associated with trying to seduce Tizzia. It relates to the mechanism I usually use to pull a girl home.
I happen to have a realllllly solid, seemingly harmless excuse with which to invite a girl home, which I enjoy as a result of my line of work. I pretty much always use this because it tends to get very little resistance.
There is, however, a risk that since the excuse is so solid, itʼs possible that a girl could assume entirely platonic motives for bringing her home. So far, women have not been really offended by my attempts to escalate once home, but it remains a possibility. Normally, thatʼs a risk that I just accept, because, well, if I do happen to get an, “ewwww you creep!” type response, all Iʼve really lost is that one girl. Well, unless I ever want to become a politician. XD
In this particular case, however, thatʼs a reaction I really donʼt want, and one that could potentially cost me a friend and potentially even a lot of opportunity with other more random women.
Chase has mentioned that what makes a person a “creep” is that they hide their true intentions. So, basically, I have to make sure that I donʼt do that with Tizzia. I have to make sure that if she comes home with me, sheʼs not going to be surprised when I try to have sex with her. Making sure that she knows what I want beforehand, if even only unconsciously or vaguely, would in my opinion make it remarkably unlikely that sheʼll be creeped out when I try to escalate. It does increase the risk that she resists coming home, but in this particular case I would much rather that she decline my suggestion to come home, than have her come home and then freak out when I try to seduce her.
So why not just use a weaker, more transparent excuse? Like Netflix and chill? Because I think thereʼs still benefit in using my airtight excuse, in that it gives her more plausible deniability. I just need to make sure that Iʼve inoculated her beforehand with my sexual intentions.
4. Next Contact and A Problem
Now decided on going ahead, I texted Tizzia on the 27th (yesterday):
9:57a.m. Phoenix: Howʼs Tizzia™? Figure out how to siphon off Justin Bieberʼs YouTube views yet?
2:13p.m. Tizzia: Lol
2:36p.m. Tizzia: Hi
3:11p.m. Phoenix: So, Tizzia. Iʼd love to hear more about your quirky ideas. (; We should meet up for coffee soon!
3:35p.m. Tizzia: Sure
3:36p.m. Tizzia: Iʼll let u know the best time
Oooou, I did not like that. Thatʼs one of the “feminine classic” frames, the “I will let you know” frame! Translation: “Iʼm worth more than you so youʼre going to sit around waiting for my text like a lost puppy.” In any case, the ball being in a girlʼs court is generally not a good thing. Sheʼll probably forget, and then reminding her makes you look desperate.
I sometimes get this in response to a specific date proposed, but this is the first time Iʼve gotten it just from having proposed the idea of a date. I couldnʼt help but be pessimistic, but I was also reminded that I hadnʼt proposed a specific day. Iʼd have usually done that in any text about a date. Then again, Iʼd have usually proposed the basic idea of the date in person at the time of meeting. Recall that Iʼd pussyfooted a bit in person due to her dad being nearby.
The correct response to reverse this frame is normally to retract the specific date proposed and conclude something like, “weʼll do it another time.” Unfortunately, by not having immediately proposed a specific date, I left myself without this option.
Another problem is that for the next I guess week or so, sheʼs off school, and this could possibly make it much easier to meet her very soon than it might be later, although of course I donʼt really know.
This imperative to schedule it soon versus the need to reverse the frame by retracting and having to “let her know” created a conflict as to the best manner of response. I made a creative attempt to combine the two requirements:
4:33p.m. Phoenix: k. Tomorrow or Mon are good. Shit is a bit hectic after New Years, so otherwise Iʼll have to let you know once I see what my schedule is like.
A day later she has not replied. Between that, the briefness of her replies, and her “let you know” frame, I got a little disappointed and started thinking maybe sheʼs not interested. I certainly could have been a little more bold and sexy with her when I had the chance, but (i) thatʼs something Iʼm still struggling to achieve in the moment (I usually only realize what I should have done after the fact — Iʼm too in my head in the moment), and (ii) I was particularly afraid of being bold given the social context.
Iʼm also wondering if maybe I jumped the gun with the date proposal. My thinking had been, I had already warmed her up a fair bit in the car, so I felt that idle chit‑chat on SMS would just be unproductive and miss the brief window of opportunity. The girl used to be a stripper so Iʼm sure sheʼs accustomed to beta males trying to small‑talk their way into her panties. But perhaps I was wrong and I needed to warm her up a little more on text?
Anyway, I also need to figure out what to do next. I donʼt want to give up too easily, although I also donʼt want to become a pest, because again, thereʼs much more social risk here than usual.
I was thinking to shoot her a quick text on New Years.. maybe:
Tizzia, Happy New Year! Suggested resolution: shorter eyelashes (;===
Iʼm not always a fan of sending “special occasion” messages, especially to girls who arenʼt being entirely co‑operative. It seems to risk being too nice‑guy.
But thereʼs another possible explanation. During our chats in person thus far, she had been so talkative that Iʼve barely said a peep about myself. While thereʼs something to be said for being mysterious, taken too far, it could I suppose cause a lack of comfort or attainability. I wonder if thatʼs an issue and if so how I could fix it at this point.
I also wonder if I should mention or ask about her kid. I usually avoid that, because it seems like an excellent way to wind up in the boyfriend zone.
And finally I also wonder if I might profit more from calling her next time. Maybe on New Years?
Would love to hear any observations or ideas. (No need to tell me I need to talk to a lot more girls. Thatʼs dependent on moving to Africa, which I have been actively researching again as of late.)