Girl playing hard to get?

[Fluxcapacitor]

Dudes! A have been curious about this girl I can't decide if she's playing games or playing hard to get. As soon as she plays games I stop playing, then she'll come back and try again.

I met this girl when she was 19, she's now 25. In the last 6 years I have got in shape, dress better, have better posture, became more successful and gained a lot more experience with girls. My SMV has increased considerably since we first met. Her SMV has went down, she's not as hot as she used to be and gained a little weight. She chased hard when we first met, now she'll chase hard and then just become really difficult. This can be failed compliance or going ghost after hanging out. I don't get the failed compliance:

Example:

We get out the car and are walking to the cafe, her hands are in her pockets. We have some incidental touch and I decide to guide her through a group of people by putting my hand on her lower back. She complies with this and is alright with it and then randomly when I go to do it again (for like the fourth time) she'll complain and tell me that she can walk on her own. I'm a little like okay?? Well thats just killed the momentum. I kinda need to comply and step back a bit because shes clearly not happy with this touch.

She's constantly blowing hot and cold. I can only think she's doing this to play hard to get but she didn't used to play this hard to get when my SMV was lower. Any thoughts?

 

[naturalmikey]

crazy how chicks after 23 or 24 become both less hot and more difficult. i wouldn't waste my time. 21-23 is where it's at in my opinion.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Sounds like games bro.

You know what I think women like more than sex? Fuckin with your mind!!

I really think women enjoy messing with you and getting you in your feelings, then when you stop playing games they come back to get you back in.

Happened to me before, had this girl go hard for my attention, but It wasn’t going anywhere.

She wasn’t playing games before because she probably didn’t feel like it or maybe she changed as she got older.

Really no point dealing with a chick who’s being difficult.

 

[naturalmikey]

there's a e book by alan roger curie called "the possibility of sex: how naive and lustful men are manipulated by women regularly"

part one is called
TIMEWASTERS: I DON'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I
DON'T WANT YOU TO TRY TO GET IN MY PANTS!

he talks about various types of women that use men for different reasons. worth reading i'd say. mostly fluff talk honestly. still worth reading

 

[DarkKnight]

Hot and cold can be something else as well: auto-rejection. You mention that you have known her for years. Did you ever miss escalation windows? Because I am familiar with the hot and cold behaviour as well, usually when I was too slow or focussing on another girl.

Also how does she behave around you? Do you sense strong emotions from her not? There is a big difference between aloof behaviour and true indifference. It took me a while to sense the difference, but it is quite recognizable. Especially when you are with another girl and you sense the other girl feeling scorned.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Sub-Zero dude! I think she is playing games but its being difficult and so being hard to get. She's trying to elevate her value I guess and sucking validation from me to see if I will chase. Whats really weird is a don't chase and then she comes back, invests and complies to then do the same shit again. I think naturalmikey is right with time waster.

@naturalmikey dude! thanks for the ebook recommendation I will give that a read dude. I think part one might hit the nail on my head cause I feel like am wasting my time with her.

@DarkKnight dude! A would say I would have missed escalation windows somewhere over the years. The only one I can think of is after we didn't talk for a year and we ended up both being out with a mutual friend one night and she apologised for her behaviour the year previous. She chased hard but I had a lot of other options and just didn't bother with her. The other ones was the original LMR that I got (6 years ago a thought LMR was a no, amazingly without knowing what I was doing I kept cool as if it was no big deal, stepped back and tried again the next time. I couldn't get past her objection but didn't come of as needy or desperate). Since if a have missed escalation windows they've been disguised with her hard to get behaviour/games.

At times theres very strong emotions from her, the last time we were out was an impromptu insta date after running into each other. I knew a couldn't escalate so just went to hug her at the end (not starting something a can't finish) and she went straight for the kiss. She's aloof at times, I don't sense indifference cause she 'invests' by being interested in my life an what am doing. I try to answer with very little and get it back to her which works rather well. Shes very scorned when she sees me with other girls and it prompts her to chase again but again she'll play nice for a while and then goes cold. Such as the example in the OP.

After writing that out the way I can describe the behaviour is like a child wanting to walk on their own while their parent doesn't want them to walk to far. The whole attitude of "I'm a big girl I can walk on my own!" is possibly the best way to sum up her behaviour when she goes cold. Other times its awkward and timid behaviour. Like she will sit miles away, a will ask her to come close or ask for her arm to inspect her jewlery an she complies, then she'll struggle to get up an a will ask for her hand to help her up but she's stubborn an refuses this compliance. I just find this hot an cold and changing very difficult cause its not like a do anything that I think ah shit shouldn't have done that it just comes out of nowhere dude.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Yeah bro, she is wasting your time, girls love to do this. Ask her to hang out with you at home and watch a move or something, see what she says.

 

[Grand Pooba]

Dudes! A have been curious about this girl I can't decide if she's playing games or playing hard to get. As soon as she plays games I stop playing, then she'll come back and try again.

I met this girl when she was 19, she's now 25. In the last 6 years I have got in shape, dress better, have better posture, became more successful and gained a lot more experience with girls. My SMV has increased considerably since we first met. Her SMV has went down, she's not as hot as she used to be and gained a little weight. She chased hard when we first met, now she'll chase hard and then just become really difficult. This can be failed compliance or going ghost after hanging out. I don't get the failed compliance:

Example:

We get out the car and are walking to the cafe, her hands are in her pockets. We have some incidental touch and I decide to guide her through a group of people by putting my hand on her lower back. She complies with this and is alright with it and then randomly when I go to do it again (for like the fourth time) she'll complain and tell me that she can walk on her own. I'm a little like okay?? Well thats just killed the momentum. I kinda need to comply and step back a bit because shes clearly not happy with this touch.

She's constantly blowing hot and cold. I can only think she's doing this to play hard to get but she didn't used to play this hard to get when my SMV was lower. Any thoughts?

It sounds like you're deep in the friend zone and are just wasting your time with this girl. It's not going to go anywhere. Use your time instead to find new women.

 

[Cody Lyans]

Hard to get or fun to win?
There is a difference xD
Hard to get is the more insecure version of fun to win.
So reframe her as fun to make crack and crumble and tease her ruuuuuthlesly

 

[Rain]

We get out the car and are walking to the cafe, her hands are in her pockets. We have some incidental touch and I decide to guide her through a group of people by putting my hand on her lower back. She complies with this and is alright with it and then randomly when I go to do it again (for like the fourth time) she'll complain and tell me that she can walk on her own. I'm a little like okay?? Well thats just killed the momentum.

Would that be too much? its just walking, maybe other forms of touch during the cafe, but doing the hand lower back as she walks 4x times might be too much of that specific touch?

Hard to get or fun to win?
There is a difference xD
Hard to get is the more insecure version of fun to win.
So reframe her as fun to make crack and crumble and tease her ruuuuuthlesly

What percentage of these "hard to win" women / friendzone end up working out in your favour, 1% or 10%? There's attraction you can create and attraction you can't create, if that's not there, no amount of fun / frame control / <insert PUA tactic here> would override that?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Cody Lyans dude definitely fun to win! :') I like this perspective and the reframe changes it amazingly! I've had some fun to win girls in the past so lets have some more fun!

Thanks dude!

@Rain dude! You're right it might have been to much of that specific touch and maybe she wanted more progression or that she felt the 4th time was uncalibrated. I don't think it was, I was using it to guide her across the road when I wanted us to cross (safely of course) but you never know!

I don't think the fun to win girl is a friend zone situation (at least not this example). I appreciate Grand Pooba's thoughts and insights and I don't plan on wasting time with her if its going nowhere. The catch on this one is I don't like her post on social media - she likes all of mine. I don't do big dates they're really simple and the most I've done is bought her a drink. I don't text her like at all, messaging is strictly to meet up one on one. She's always super enthusiastic if she see's me out and is incredibly jealous if she see's me with another girl. I do think she's just playing fun to win. I know you aimed the question at Cody but I don't waste time on girls who aren't interested in me. I'll use them for practice or for fun if am out in social situations with them but wouldn't waste time trying to arrange to go out if they didn't accept.

 

[Eternity]

Ignore her completely. Flirt with other girls heavily in her presence. Bask in her jealousy and keep ignoring her while she looks your way expectantly looking at you like a lost puppy coming back to its master. She plays hot and cold, you play it ice cold. No smiles, no unecessary banter, no being fake friendly none of that shit. Go out at night and talk to girls who actually wants to get to know you without the bullshit. They are more interchangeable than you think. It's funny how quick you will forget about your oneitis when a hotter girl is eyefucking you at the bar followed by another and another and gasp are not in the mood to play no fucking games. Deuces bruh.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Eternity dude! thanks for the reply, I don't have oneitis for her but totally get where ya coming from. She's went well down on my rotation. I don't have a lot of free time at the moment so won't put up with headaches! :')

 

[Cody Lyans]

Would that be too much? its just walking, maybe other forms of touch during the cafe, but doing the hand lower back as she walks 4x times might be too much of that specific touch?



What percentage of these "hard to win" women / friendzone end up working out in your favour, 1% or 10%? There's attraction you can create and attraction you can't create, if that's not there, no amount of fun / frame control / <insert PUA tactic here> would override that?

Most girls are trying to be all fun to win.
A certain percentage of that whole attitude is just a front, like 70 - 90 percent of it, so similarly you can crush through it at the same rate given you have the stomach for it on the day and don't mind it.

You don't beat it with tactics, you beat it by NOT approaching it wrong
You act like they are normal and just cruise past it without fucking with it (cuz provoking reaction of that state will enforce the state)
They will drop the state and act like they are wearing mittens and a sweater if you approach em right

And I just assume all girls want to look bitchy cuz it makes life easier, so I just assume they are lazy and eat way too much on the couch