Good pick-up advice from a woman

[AsianBabe]

She could easily find that guy for free. She is looking for a unicorn. I am 99.9% sure she has men ready to do all of that for her. No, she wants the guy she failed to get. I normally do not like discussing this topic with women, but I am giving you an exception to be fair in this thread. But even doing that is continuing to prove it is not possible to have this kind of talk with a woman. Because despite everything you said, you hardly thought about the fact, or at least took for granted, that men are constantly trying to get women's attention 24/7. I am going to assume by your name that you are asian. Assuming you are at least averagely attractive, you have had men coming onto you since you were a young girl. So to you, it is almost a given, so you take it for granted. However, unlike men who would explain this experience, to you, it's not even worth bringing up in this discussion because you do not care for it.

Aella does have a rather long and perhaps unrealistic laundry list of what she's looking for, we can agree on that. She will have to compromise eventually to settle down, yes. But it is not impossible for her to get who she wants.

What I find difficult is having a conversation with a man who seems to project a lot of his negative experiences with women and rejects all advice from women. That is black & white thinking and why topcat thinks your statements are coming off as "red pill" when this space is supposed to be much more nuanced.

Sure, you could say at some points, I took the unwanted attention for granted (but I am polite about it to them), but I do not take the attention from attractive/charismatic men for granted. Do you take the attention from ugly women for granted?

And no, what she wrote did not seduce you. It was the man who you thought was good enough for you, with all his traits, that seduced you. And not every man will be that for you. I doubt a fat man working at mcdonalds would even get close to you to be able to do all of that. Because again, you take attention for granted, so you can't even make that deduction. You had two posts to do so, and not once did it come up.

If the handsome/wonderful fisherman is just standing there doing nothing, how is he supposed to hook the fish? Isn't that what game/seduction is for?

The fat man working at McDonalds likely doesn't have his fundamentals down... But for the record, I have dated overweight & unemployed & shorter men in the past as well. And that's because I look at the entire man and how he treats me, his potential, his goals, his vision, how he aligns with me, if he makes me feel seen and understood, etcetera.

Tbh, I'm not sure that you are someone who would make me feel seen and understood. I think the others here are doing it right though and I commend them for that. They seem like the "true lovers of women" that Zan Perrion describes.

You should know that as a woman based on the amount of men you have ignored in your life. And I know you know that if you are trying to have this debate in the realm of this type of forum. But you are unable to due precisely because: you are a woman.

You are aware that there could be women in this forum who snuck in as men and offered you advice and you took it because you assumed they're men, right? But because I am transparent about my sex, you choose to project your bias upon me.

Anyways, I'm going to disengage from this thread because you are starting to sound like James Cruse and I do not have the energy for that right now.. Otherwise, I think you are a very smart man who knows what he's doing but there is clearly some misunderstanding here.

Maybe you've been hurt by bad experiences with women, it happens and I'm sorry you had to go through all that. But there are still good women out there for you (hopefully in London as you said). Apologies if my presence is triggering in any way for you. It is never my intention.

 

[Francis]

@gameboy

Q&A #2

"Pickup artistry is mostly antagonistic towards women - you learn a script to get her to do something she would not otherwise. While there are still some things to learn from PUA, we believe a more effective and long-lasting strategy is to work collaboratively with women, and to get laid with women who genuinely want to get laid with you. If you inspire true horniness within her, everyone wins!"

 

[Francis]

get her to do something she would not otherwise

@West_Indian_Archie is this "submission"?

true horniness

What is false horniness?

 

[gameboy]

@gameboy

Q&A #2

"Pickup artistry is mostly antagonistic towards women - you learn a script to get her to do something she would not otherwise. While there are still some things to learn from PUA, we believe a more effective and long-lasting strategy is to work collaboratively with women, and to get laid with women who genuinely want to get laid with you. If you inspire true horniness within her, everyone wins!"

Yeah, I saw that after making the post.

"collaboratively" but you have to pay $3-18k to get in lol... and maybe there's a little "unofficial" upsell later on?

Anyway, for those who are into this kind of thing, it's a fun idea. Gotta give her that. But I'm not sure if it has much to do with what this forum is all about.

EDIT:
I just found this (https://aella.substack.com/p/the-vision-of-slutcon)

So it does seem to be more than just a sales funnel. I kind of like her vision, it does seem to make sense from a female point of view.

 

[DurangoMars]

Aella does have a rather long and perhaps unrealistic laundry list of what she's looking for, we can agree on that. She will have to compromise eventually to settle down, yes. But it is not impossible for her to get who she wants.

What I find difficult is having a conversation with a man who seems to project a lot of his negative experiences with women and rejects all advice from women. That is black & white thinking and why topcat thinks your statements are coming off as "red pill" when this space is supposed to be much more nuanced.

Sure, you could say at some points, I took the unwanted attention for granted (but I am polite about it to them), but I do not take the attention from attractive/charismatic men for granted. Do you take the attention from ugly women for granted?


If the handsome/wonderful fisherman is just standing there doing nothing, how is he supposed to hook the fish? Isn't that what game/seduction is for?

The fat man working at McDonalds likely doesn't have his fundamentals down... But for the record, I have dated overweight & unemployed & shorter men in the past as well. And that's because I look at the entire man and how he treats me, his potential, his goals, his vision, how he aligns with me, if he makes me feel seen and understood, etcetera.

Tbh, I'm not sure that you are someone who would make me feel seen and understood. I think the others here are doing it right though and I commend them for that. They seem like the "true lovers of women" that Zan Perrion describes.


You are aware that there could be women in this forum who snuck in as men and offered you advice and you took it because you assumed they're men, right? But because I am transparent about my sex, you choose to project your bias upon me.

Anyways, I'm going to disengage from this thread because you are starting to sound like James Cruse and I do not have the energy for that right now.. Otherwise, I think you are a very smart man who knows what he's doing but there is clearly some misunderstanding here.

Maybe you've been hurt by bad experiences with women, it happens and I'm sorry you had to go through all that. But there are still good women out there for you (hopefully in London as you said). Apologies if my presence is triggering in any way for you. It is never my intention.

The "who hurt you" routine is the cherry on top of why women do not belong in this conversation. It invalidated everything you said.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

@West_Indian_Archie is this "submission"?

I haven't been following this conversation

In many respects, I'm the guy at the bakery that opens the window and let's the aroma is freshly baked ooey gooey cinnamon rolls perfume the block.

She knows she shouldn't, but nothing is wrong with just a taste.

One French fry won't hurt.
One little sip of the cocktail won't hurt.
Staying out another 10 minutes, is okay.
We're just making out, not a big deal.
Popping a bra strap is just middle school fun.

Etc.

If I was not there, maybe she would have just gone home.

But I was there. And I said something a little risky, a little risque. Not too much, but I'm a decent, I'm smart, I'm clean. So maybe she gives herself a little permission to say something she might not normally.

I'm not making get do anything, but giving her an opportunity to commit a little sin. Maybe she is breaking her code a little bit.

But it's not a big deal right?

Nothing bad happened. In fact maybe she got a little kick out of it.

And she was little bit relieved to say something, to do a little something.

She would not otherwise do X,Y, and Z. But maybe those things aren't really that bad.

Maybe she was thinking about it too harshly. Maybe it's something that she always wanted to do, but she needed someone to do it first, or do it with her, or encourage her and support her....

As pickup artists, imo, we're really just giving chicks interesting options.

In my experience, the game done well, she's driving the seduction, because you're really handling some of her unmet needs. Thank Allah that you showed up, cause otherwise she'd continue in silent agony.

Sex is natural.
Sex isn't a big deal.
Honestly it's really just a more complicated massage.

Etc. This is that old school 2002 style game imo.

If it feels good, how could it be wrong?

I think other very successful pickup artists build a lot more compliance/command/control into the way they do it.

And not only do those methods work well, but a lot of girls (and people in general) need that. They never really develop enough courage to do things they want to do.

I'm just not that kind of guy.

I've met girls that

1) wanted someone to submit to,
2) some that needed domination because their lives were horrible, and
3) some that unconsciously only responded to hard styles even though that's not what they wanted. Especially after experiencing it.

That's just not me. Lost some hotties cause I couldn't be that guy for them. It hurt then and hurts now. But that's life.

In general, 8 billion people, and there are infinite ways to get a chick to act on how she already feels. She may not even realize that's what's going on with her. Lot of people don't. That's where we come in.

 

[kevkev39]

I don't expect anyone to take my advice but it's nice when a woman feels heard by men too. It is true that a woman's desires will change over time. And if the romance or her attraction for you dies, then her desires for you can die as well. Both of you have to work to keep the flame alive.

Pleasure and romance are fleeting, as is life, so enjoy them while you have them...If you cannot keep a woman satisfied enough and adapt to her changes/vice versa, don't be surprised if she stops desiring you. Am I wrong about all this?

When she stops wanting those things (presumably from you), put her next to a new man and I guarantee you she will probably want a lot of those things again.

As for Aella, yes it seems she wants to settle down - she offered 100k to have someone find her a husband, and 300k to whoever could find her someone to impregnate her and pay her to be a single mother, sole custody. But this is pretty niche, not exactly princess treatment.

I'll pay you 100k to get me married

or 300k to arrange an impregnation deal

aella.substack.com

Honestly, she might have the most realistic standards of any american woman I've ever heard of.

"Okay guys, hear me out. I want a man who can sprout wings from his balls, whose blood can be drunk to act as a literal fountain of youth, who needs to be as funny as George Carlin but as sexy as Chris Hemsworth. He *needs* to be not only okay, but turned on by the fact that I'm polyamorous - in fact, he needs to like it so much, he'll casually get into foursomes with me and a few random guys he doesn't know.

ALSO, it's okay if he's not this*, I'd love it if he was smart enough to invent new alien materials AND charismatic enough to change the entirety of manufacturing on Earth. I know I'm asking for a lot here, so here's the deal: I'll PAY YOU $100K if you can FIND THIS MAN!** OR! If you can negotiate a deal, he can pay ME $10 Million, and then I'll pay you $300K.*** Sound fair?****"


*Translation: If he's not this, it's game over.
**Translation: I WANT ATTENTION!
***Translation: I want $10 Million to have a child. After the child is born, I will abandon the father, taking his money to a non-extradition country.
****Translation: Are you a sucker?

 

[Will_V]

Interesting thread.

I don't know anything about Aella, so I can't say anything about whether her stuff is useful in any way.

In general, I've found that women are pretty terrible at giving direct advice to men on just about anything. It's simply not one of the strengths of the feminine nature to think logically and rationally about some problem and present a solution in the form of a principle or procedure.

That said, there is a lot to learn from women about women, as long as you know how to parse the information.

The best context is, of course, when you are seducing her, where you can see clearly what she does or does not respond to.

The next best context is watching her with different guys, and seeing how she responds to each of them according to the way he presents himself.

Beyond that, I've found women's writing to be useful in terms of understanding the world in general from the female point of view, understanding female humor and wit, and getting a feel for how she perceives the men around her through the course of her day to day life. I read Lauren Bacall's autobiography not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember reading I was told there'd be cake a long time ago, and really enjoying that sweetly satirical female humor.

Women can be good at giving advice on sex, at least to the guy she's getting it from - a lot of stuff I know I've been told directly by women.

Beyond that, I don't really look to women for any kind of technical advice.

You are wrong. You are the fish trying to tell the fisherman how to catch and keep you around.

I've never understood the fish analogy. It seems to imply that women don't want to be seduced, and that we are doing something horrible and unwanted to them by 'catching' them.

It's not that women are trying to escape from us. It's that:

a) there's a social cost to women for appearing to be easy.
b) women operate on feelings and emotions, which means that the things she says depend on how she feels when she's asked, which depends also a lot on who's asking and in what context. And the baseline social context is one where she's rewarded for appearing to be heavily biased in favor of socially accepted male characteristics.

It does not mean that she's trying to throw up a smokescreen to men in general, or make seducing her as hard as possible. That's the type of thinking that guys who really don't understand women have about them.

It is up to us as men to learn how to interact with women in a way that is useful and enjoyable for us, to understand and connect with her nature such as it is, rather than reacting to her as if she were a guy with certain faults.

 

[Bill]

Funny enough I made a thread about her advice a while back

https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/a-woman’s-view-of-game-and-seduction.29584/

Basically I found she is uniquely unbiased and honest, which gives a lot of insight.

Of course at the same time she is very different from the average girl due to her work and personality, so what she described doesn’t necessarily line up with other women.

 

[topcat]

The "who hurt you" routine is the cherry on top of why women do not belong in this conversation. It invalidated everything you said.

correct

 

[SenseErn]

I love Aella's stuff. I find her hugely insightful. Her "How To Be Good At Sex" series is a must read. Good shout man.

I don't remember who made it, but one of the "training video" i used to have ready for many of the guys I taught PUA to was "How to Eat Pussy like a Porn Star". It had Ron Jeremy and Seymor Butts in it, but what they talk about is nearly useless. But, it was such a good training video that I would watch it myself every few months to make sure my technique wasn't waning. I think I saved a couple relationships by getting that video to a couple of them.

No, I did not watch it to goon to; if you want that, there are far better videos.

 

[SenseErn]

Ironically, I do not partake in any "redpill" stuff. This is from lived experience. You are free to ask me questions if you need more clarification. I figure that's why we're here anyway.

To be fair, it is in the title of the thread.

Having said that, my rule of thumb is to do the opposite of any female advice, unless some guy whose opinion I value agrees with it. Even then, it is taken with a grain of salt.

 

[DurangoMars]

I've never understood the fish analogy. It seems to imply that women don't want to be seduced, and that we are doing something horrible and unwanted to them by 'catching' them.

It's not that women are trying to escape from us. It's that:

a) there's a social cost to women for appearing to be easy.
b) women operate on feelings and emotions, which means that the things she says depend on how she feels when she's asked, which depends also a lot on who's asking and in what context. And the baseline social context is one where she's rewarded for appearing to be heavily biased in favor of socially accepted male characteristics.

It does not mean that she's trying to throw up a smokescreen to men in general, or make seducing her as hard as possible. That's the type of thinking that guys who really don't understand women have about them.

It is up to us as men to learn how to interact with women in a way that is useful and enjoyable for us, to understand and connect with her nature such as it is, rather than reacting to her as if she were a guy with certain faults.

You contradicted yourself. You had good points before quoting me, but your post does not agree with itself.

You mention that women do not want to appear too easy, and they operate on emotions. Then you turn around and say that they do not try to throw up a smokescreen or they do not try to make seducing her as hard as possible. Except, your bulletpoints are examples of women doing exactly that. I look at women as if they hold various contradicting thoughts in their head. I have interacted with the most logical of them, and even they fall into their biological imperative. In truth, it is useless to interact with women no more than fun banter and flirting. You cannot have intellectual conversations with them. Every married man has told his tale of how useless that is.

Not even you believe what you just wrote, btw.

You also misunderstand me. I view certain women as masculine. Primarily the ones that act like Aella. I know that archetype from a mile away. I tell men to be cautious of the career types. I tell boys to be cautious of academic girls. Use them for fun and nothing more. And she is a woman with faults.

To be fair, it is in the title of the thread.

Having said that, my rule of thumb is to do the opposite of any female advice, unless some guy whose opinion I value agrees with it. Even then, it is taken with a grain of salt.

I am merely stating that I am not learned from the typical rp stuff you find around social media. Though pua has been the standard of redpill for a long time, so it's an odd thing to call out someone for on this forum. I know a couple of people here I remember from Roosh's old place.

I don't do even try to do the opposite of women say since you're still following their lead. Cause what comes out of their mouths can change, and sometimes they say something correct on accident, or they picked it up from a male. Think all the conservative women who make videos repeating the same points as male conservatives before them.

 

[SenseErn]

I am merely stating that I am not learned from the typical rp stuff you find around social media. Though pua has been the standard of redpill for a long time, so it's an odd thing to call out someone for on this forum. I know a couple of people here I remember from Roosh's old place.

What happened to Roosh? I used to read his stuff, and one day it all disappeared.

I used to read Roissy in DC, too, until he went all aryan.

 

[Francis]

In truth, it is useless to interact with women no more than fun banter and flirting. You cannot have intellectual conversations with them.

Man are you sure about that? Maybe for the purpose of seducing her, and even then these things can layer. We are engaging her logical mind, touching the mammal brain emotions, and signalling to her deep reptilian instincts.

Have you ever talked to a woman with a graduate degree from an Ivy league school?

 

[DurangoMars]

What happened to Roosh? I used to read his stuff, and one day it all disappeared.

I used to read Roissy in DC, too, until he went all aryan.

A lot of stuff that usually happens to pua who forget to fix themselves first before playing Mystery. You can make up all the routines in the world, but if your mind isn't right, you'll expose yourself as a fraud eventually.

Man are you sure about that? Maybe for the purpose of seducing her, and even then these things can layer. We are engaging her logical mind, touching the mammal brain emotions, and signalling to her deep reptilian instincts.

Have you ever talked to a woman with a graduate degree from an Ivy league school?

Funny that you said that. I have. She also has very emotional political values. I am sure you can surmise where that led.

 

[Skills]

I have not read anything about her yet but yeah 95 percent of time women advice is useless....the exception if she knows seduction but even then meh... For example there is a porn start Bradley Cooper that teaches sex game i would look into him first vs a porn start female... only reason I am tempted to see if she is good cause topcat and don gaily say matches their existence... But need to do research to formule final veredict...but general women advice is useless cause they don't seduce women as men including lesbos and bi...good sometimes for fashion and asthetic but still some not all..

Why women’s advice is useless for seduction and/or to get good with women! - The Skills Method

Dudes pay 10k dollars to go to the "Millionaire Matchmaker" Patti Stanger to find love (Bravo Tv dating show, exhibit at the end of the post). Now these are not your regular average Joes, these are good looking, self-made millionaires. Now, I like to suffer every once in a blue moon, so I sit in

www.theskillsmethod.com

 

[Will_V]

You mention that women do not want to appear too easy, and they operate on emotions. Then you turn around and say that they do not try to throw up a smokescreen or they do not try to make seducing her as hard as possible. Except, your bulletpoints are examples of women doing exactly that.

How is that contradictory?

Women operate on emotions. If she feels like banging some dude because he makes her feel sexy and excited, she will. If she feels like the guy in front of her is lame or unexciting, or if she feels the pressure of scrutinizing attention on her, she will respond with the baseline female security response - which is "I want man with XYZ" (some socially acceptable definition of the ideal guy).

It is not a case of her lying, it is not her trying to throw men off or confuse them. It is simply what happens when you equate emotions with truth, you end up being very fickle. This is a good thing for guys who understand this and work with it (and it becomes a very enjoyable thing), but a minefield for the type of dude who cannot stop reacting emotionally to perceived illogicalities.

The reason why you sound like the red pill is because those guys bash themselves against the woman's security algorithm ad nauseum. They do not flirt, they do not evoke emotions, they are not playful in any way, therefore they do not produce any emotional response in her. They simply put her on the spot, in a cold and demanding way, and not surprisingly, these women feel nothing, and respond with their default security algorithm (but then again, I think this is whole charade is much to the satisfaction of the audience).

In truth, it is useless to interact with women no more than fun banter and flirting. You cannot have intellectual conversations with them.

To some extent, yes.

Not even you believe what you just wrote, btw.

You seem to have a problem ascribing bad intentions to people when you don't understand them.

 

[DurangoMars]

How is that contradictory?

Women operate on emotions. If she feels like banging some dude because he makes her feel sexy and excited, she will. If she feels like the guy in front of her is lame or unexciting, or if she feels the pressure of scrutinizing attention on her, she will respond with the baseline female security response - which is "I want man with XYZ" (some socially acceptable definition of the ideal guy).

It is not a case of her lying, it is not her trying to throw men off or confuse them. It is simply what happens when you equate emotions with truth, you end up being very fickle. This is a good thing for guys who understand this and work with it (and it becomes a very enjoyable thing), but a minefield for the type of dude who cannot stop reacting emotionally to perceived illogicalities.

The reason why you sound like the red pill is because those guys bash themselves against the woman's security algorithm ad nauseum. They do not flirt, they do not evoke emotions, they are not playful in any way, therefore they do not produce any emotional response in her. They simply put her on the spot, in a cold and demanding way, and not surprisingly, these women feel nothing, and respond with their default security algorithm (but then again, I think this is whole charade is much to the satisfaction of the audience).

A fickle woman is a hard to get woman. Intentionally or not. You assume that I am personally bothered by this. I've been past reacting to women's whims. Most of the men that come to these forums for help are the very men that react to said fickleness, and it is up to the masters and experienced to teach them otherwise.

I am not these other guys you spoke with regarding women. You cannot cover me with this general all presumption of what I am to women and what they are to me. Your assessment of needing to evoke emotions in specific ways is why you are not getting it.

It is not about having a specific set of ways to invoke a woman. It is about being you that evokes it regardless of what you are doing. I made the example earlier than a woman who is turned on by you will not care what you do to her, barring extreme examples. You can be ignoring her and she will still be turned on, something we should have all done at some point with a girl that was attracted to us. That's the default state of you in reference to a woman. Your existence goes on regardless of her input or not.

You see this as "cold" but women love that. Be advised, you can be the most charismatic jester, and a woman still won't be attracted to you. Everything Aella said is meaningless.

 

[Will_V]

A fickle woman is a hard to get woman. Intentionally or not.

No, quite the opposite. Because the fickleness is a result of emotions, and there's nothing random about them.

It is not about having a specific set of ways to invoke a woman. It is about being you that evokes it regardless of what you are doing. I made the example earlier than a woman who is turned on by you will not care what you do to her, barring extreme examples. You can be ignoring her and she will still be turned on, something we should have all done at some point with a girl that was attracted to us. That's the default state of you in reference to a woman. Your existence goes on regardless of her input or not.

Obviously something made her turned on in the first place. Let me guess, it's your 6'5 height, gigachad jawline, and the contents of your Miami bank account?

You see this as "cold" but women love that.

I used the word 'cold' in reference to the way red pill guys put women on the spot and demand explanations from her, without stimulating her at all. You're putting words in my mouth here.

Be advised, you can be the most charismatic jester

What does that have to do with anything?