How do you guys handle this escalation window?

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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773
Many times I will find myself in a situation where, sometimes very soon into the date, we will go quite, and she will be looking at me smiling. I get a bit flustered at these points and continue to talk. I know this is tension, I suspect this is an escalation window. But I don't really know how to proceed since it's not something that she said in particular that I can respond to in a sexual way, or anything else. It's just... a look. In your experience, what is going through her mind at this point?

Is it a sign that I should be aiming to get out of there, right now? Or perhaps a response. Should I acknowledge the fact she is looking at me and use that as an excuse to start verbally flirting? This generally happens when the touch barrier has barely been broken (light brushes on the leg and so on)

Very basic question, but one I realize I haven't gotten on top of that I suspect now has killed many a prospective seduction.
 

Corey Dee

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Hi Mooser, Corey Dee here.

So the fact that you got the girl as far as the date is a great accomplishment in itself and of that you should be proud. But bear in mind, there would've been a lot of communication between you and her to even get that far so I wouldn't feel bad that you run out of things to say. It seems based on your description that a lot was said, not much kino (touching) otherwise you would possibly be holding her hand at the dinner table.

Sounds like there would be a bit of tension when neither of you are saying anything. In fact you can use tension to make a girl do most of the conversation work for you. If she has a bit of fire in her personality then she will break the tension by asking a question or by making an observation. Just remember - it's not just you that has to 'do all the work'.

In that silence, you could be experiencing is what is referred to as a 'critical moment'. These are the moments in time where you are required to do a 'thing' in order to advance to the next level of your connection. Many of us can freeze up in these critical moments and even get a hint of performance anxiety. There is also the stress that she could reject you for trying it out.

Let's assess what the typical 'critical moments' are:
1. You approach her - you've obviously done that
2. Gotten her contact details - done
3. Date request (or at least an agreement that she will show up at the same eatery as you) - done
4. Date (The date itself) - done
5. You start holding her hand (establish physical contact - kino escalation techniques) - need to do next
6. The Kiss (intimate touching, trust begins to be established)
7. ...
8. ...
9. ...
10. Sex

Now critical moments are linked via what you call 'bridges'.
Bridges are the 'periods of time' between critical moments.


Solution:

To 'bridge' the critical moment 4 of the date to the critical moment 5 where you start holding her hand is to tell a story or make an observation that involves holding her hand. Jump on google and read up about palmistry - the art of reading hands. Don't let your critical thinking male brain get in the way of this and pass it off as stupid. Women love this stuff. Absorb the knowledge and deploy. Hand massages are also recommended.

Good luck

-CoreyDee
 

ElderPrice

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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So by "date" you mean sitting and grabbing drinks or coffee? And when you say "very soon" is that something like 15 minutes in, or 2 minutes in?

Remember there's no rule that says you have to sit and talk for 60 minutes. You're free to try and logistically move things along at any point. Next time try something like 'Hey let's take our coffee/tea and go for a walk. It's nice out.' Boom. Now you're not just sitting there waiting for some moment, instead you're actually in the process of logistically getting the two of you alone together.
 

Mr.Rob

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Hold eye contact and sexy smile knowingly until she says breaks the tension. Often she'll say "what?!" Laughingly... Reply back "I just noticed you have the cutest dimples" or whatever you want to say
 

hotsauce

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Hold eye contact and sexy smile knowingly until she says breaks the tension. Often she'll say "what?!" Laughingly... Reply back "I just noticed you have the cutest dimples" or whatever you want to say

I remember a similar situation I had w a girl who was smiling at me and staring into my eyes (somewhat into the seduction attempt, had already danced w her). I tried doing this and she just walked away and I lost the girl lol which is why I suggest making a move.
 

Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
773
Thanks for the responses guys.

Sounds like there would be a bit of tension when neither of you are saying anything. In fact you can use tension to make a girl do most of the conversation work for you. If she has a bit of fire in her personality then she will break the tension by asking a question or by making an observation. Just remember - it's not just you that has to 'do all the work'.

In that silence, you could be experiencing is what is referred to as a 'critical moment'. These are the moments in time where you are required to do a 'thing' in order to advance to the next level of your connection. Many of us can freeze up in these critical moments and even get a hint of performance anxiety. There is also the stress that she could reject you for trying it out.

Interesting points @Corey Dee and welcome to the boards. What you refer to as "critical moments" are generally referred to as "escalation windows" around here, and I've definitely been freezing up at them! Tension is important. @Mr.Rob also referred to it as well. I just finished reading COCPORNs book on tinder as well (but a lot of the concepts apply to real life as well), and a term he introduced to me is "tension threshold". Some people have low tension thresholds, meaning they are the ones to break eye contact, double text after a risky text (for instance to say "I was only joking" or using :p smileys etc. Others have high tension thresholds, and that for most guys, their tension threshold is lowered the hotter they find the girl, to the point where it gets unbearable around a girl they find really hot and they break easily. Never really thought about it like this before. He mentions that your tension threshold will naturally lift with more abundance, which makes sense. I currently have a fairly low tension threshold even amongst girls I might not find as attractive, especially when they are looking at me like this with a sexy smile. The higher your tension threshold, the more likely it will be unbearable for her and she will be the one to break.

So by "date" you mean sitting and grabbing drinks or coffee? And when you say "very soon" is that something like 15 minutes in, or 2 minutes in?

Remember there's no rule that says you have to sit and talk for 60 minutes. You're free to try and logistically move things along at any point. Next time try something like 'Hey let's take our coffee/tea and go for a walk. It's nice out.' Boom. Now you're not just sitting there waiting for some moment, instead you're actually in the process of logistically getting the two of you alone together.

Hey Elder! Generally not 2 minutes in, but I have had it at 15 minutes in before. In this case we were still waiting on our coffees, and they came in porcelain cups so couldn't really walk out with them, lol. But I do get pretty bogged down in the "we just got here, we can't move for at least X amount of time" so definitely need to be more dynamic in this respect.


I remember a similar situation I had w a girl who was smiling at me and staring into my eyes (somewhat into the seduction attempt, had already danced w her). I tried doing this and she just walked away and I lost the girl lol which is why I suggest making a move.

Maybe in this situation because you'd already had physical contact with her she was expecting a kiss or moving? In my instances sometimes we're only 15 minutes into the date when this happens and there has been hardly any touching beforehand. Moving right away seems pretty premature in this case (especially since we were still waiting for our coffees).
 

Mr.Rob

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Some people have low tension thresholds, meaning they are the ones to break eye contact, double text after a risky text

It's just like any fundamental. Practice makes perfect ;)
 

West_Indian_Archie

Tribal Elder
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375
Many times I will find myself in a situation where, sometimes very soon into the date, we will go quite, and she will be looking at me smiling. I get a bit flustered at these points and continue to talk. I know this is tension, I suspect this is an escalation window. But I don't really know how to proceed since it's not something that she said in particular that I can respond to in a sexual way, or anything else. It's just... a look. In your experience, what is going through her mind at this point?

Is it a sign that I should be aiming to get out of there, right now? Or perhaps a response. Should I acknowledge the fact she is looking at me and use that as an excuse to start verbally flirting? This generally happens when the touch barrier has barely been broken (light brushes on the leg and so on)

Very basic question, but one I realize I haven't gotten on top of that I suspect now has killed many a prospective seduction.

The flow chart answer is that you are in

C1- Build rapport.
If she's just looking at you with eyes of love, she's more amenable to telling you about herself.
So you can tell stories about yourself, and she will respond in kind.
Or if she starts talking about anything, you can take a "genuine" interest in what she has to say.

Then

C2 - Build the physical/emotional connection.

"Read" her palm
Measure her hands
Thumb wrestle
Stand back to back to see how tall you are
Arm wrestle
Play that handslap game where you lay your hands on top of hers

or the Korean version

Touching is fun, it's physical, it's harmless - but most of all it gets her used to you touching her, AND she feels comfortable enough to touch you. (I'm not an expert, but if you're trying to hook up with the girl, mutual touch has to be established before you get back to her place. ) And low key, skin to skin contact is also a "stealth" way to build sexual arousal.

From there, you create some plausible deniability, get back to your place, and pray like the good Christians that you are.

That's the stock answer.

Before you throw your game on autopilot, ask yourself

What do I want? Truly want? What type of result am I looking for tonight?
  • Do you want to get closer to the girl emotionally?
  • Do you want her to get closer to you emotionally?
  • Do you want to practice more attraction material?
  • Do you want to screen her?
  • Do you want to qualify her?
  • Do you want to get her to invest?
  • Do you want to break the trust barrier?
  • Do you want to increase her sense of being comfortable with you?
Etc.

None of these things are necessary to hook up, but a rookie should not just want to stick his chorizo in just any taco. No matter how good the tortilla looks.

What I do in this situation?

One, I'm not pressed to fuck another chick. I wish I had that hunger I had at 25, but I just don't. That gives me a lot of leeway with women, because I don't really care if we bang. I'd enjoy it, but what's she gonna do that I have not already had in the past decades? It won't be anything physical. Tab P goes into Slots M and V.

So I'll usually

- Cock my head to the side
- Crinkle my eyes a little bit
- Slightly smirk
- And in a playful, humorous tone,

^the body language says more to her than my words will ever say. The body language is something she's familiar with on an unconscious level.

- I'll say - "What are you looking at?"

The subtext here is that I've caught her giving me those loving eyes, and I'm basically calling her on it. She can't fall in love with me on the first date. She will predictably get a bit shy and self conscious.

She'll say whatever. Girls will vomit their feelings all day, just not what truly makes them vulnerable.

I may or may not incorporate that into what I say next, but then, with the same "trust building" body language.

Then here's the kicker.

"What are you thinking about?" - as verbal game goes, this is not typical for a first date, but rather something you say to someone at the start of a relationship.

Depending on how she answers, I may or may not incorporate that. (some chicks can get super graphic)
But asking the question, typically puts her mind in a different zone.

If her answer is heartfelt, I'm gonna do the C1/C2 stuff.
If her answer is still guarded, I will tell a story, or make an observation - and I will break eye contact as I tell whatever story. (break in rapport) and then return my gaze to her again.

The story is usually pointless, what works here-
  • It's the tone of voice
  • The "you are not that interesting", but "maybe you are"
  • My willingness to share and speak freely as an example
This isn't super technical, but it's purposeful. I'm leading her emotionally by example. Typically she gets closer, emotionally and often physically.

Those are some options. As a rookie, it's good to start to think about what you want, and let those goals focus your game during the various phases.

WIA
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Joined
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Messages
4,212
Location
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Many times I will find myself in a situation where, sometimes very soon into the date, we will go quite, and she will be looking at me smiling. I get a bit flustered at these points and continue to talk. I know this is tension, I suspect this is an escalation window. But I don't really know how to proceed since it's not something that she said in particular that I can respond to in a sexual way, or anything else. It's just... a look. In your experience, what is going through her mind at this point?

Is it a sign that I should be aiming to get out of there, right now? Or perhaps a response. Should I acknowledge the fact she is looking at me and use that as an excuse to start verbally flirting? This generally happens when the touch barrier has barely been broken (light brushes on the leg and so on)

Very basic question, but one I realize I haven't gotten on top of that I suspect now has killed many a prospective seduction.

hey mooser i am going to teach simple ones, first the one from the community and 2 i made up, that are easy and simple enough even if you have no idea what to do, i am going to start with the proven and tested community one (please practice in the mirror and look at my video on how to do it correctly (then practice them with women they are super easy):

AKA triangulating Quick Definition: The act of getting into a sexual state by looking from a woman’s eyes down to her lips, in a triangular pattern. Full Definition: Triangular gazing is a way to set the tone for a kiss through subcommunication and body language. By usingtriangular gazing, a PUA can subtly and nonverbally let his target know that he is interested in kissing her. And, if she seems receptive, go in for the kiss.


look at the video 6:42





now i made up this one call “the shut the fuck up” routine so here is how it woks:

Step 1: You are talking with the girl and the sexual tension, attraction, vibe and buying temperature is there.

Step 2: She is talking (if you are a good seducer the girl should be qualifying herself to you, and you should be just looking at her making her a bit uncomfortable, with your sexual eye contact) sometimes girls ramble and get uncomfortable cause they do not know how to deal with the sexual tension.

Step 3: With your right hand make a number 1 sign with your “index finger” and make a “shh” sound.

Step 4: As she is talking simultaneously with the “shh” sound, place your index finger on her mouth.

Step 5: Keep the finger for about 1-3 seconds (has to be fast), as you are gradually taking of your finger and going for the kiss (this has to happen simultaneously).

Step 6: Kiss and make out.


the 3rd one i made up is you are going to say, "i have a little sister or niece, or daughter or ______ fill in the blank cute little girl" she loves me so much when she sees me she says "moooooooose"---call your name changing your voice to a little girl voice- and then she does this:

"here you will demostrate what the little sister does physically which is a kiss in the forehead, one kiss in the right eye then one in the left eye, then one in the right cheek one, then nose, then left cheek and one under the lips (chin).... This will let you get a feel and let you escalate easy and will give you confidence cause if she lets you do it you know you can kiss her....

You can also combine them....
 
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Beam

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
773
Hey WIA and Skills, thanks for the responses! WIA, particularly your part about asking her what she is thinking about - it reminds me of one of the eight deep diving questions in one of the articles here that says to ask her "what do you think of me so far". One of those probing questions that I haven't really had the balls to use yet on dates.

I like that progression of asking her what she's looking at first and easing her into it, it does seem natural and a way to escalate the situation while increasing the tension, which she has to release by answering.

I will also ask myself those questions. Though I think I already know the ones I want to work on - screening, qualifying and investment. I'm good at making the girls comfortable, they do tend to trust me and get attracted, but I don't think I come across as too much of a challenge right now (I hardly screen or qualify girls at all, which I think is a big reason why I tend to fail around attractive ones). And they walk away easily because they haven't invested much in me - on the flip side I tend to invest too much in them.

Skills, I actually did a lot of that on the date (looking at her lips, making her blush and stumble over her words when I genuinely complimented her smile. I'm remembering now that we were on chairs in the middle of the venue with other people around so me shifting forwards on the chair to kiss her would have been awkward, and she certainly wasn't pulling her chair towards me . If the COVID restrictions weren't in place I would have found a side booth where we could have naturally come closer to each other but they weren't available and we got seated there. In fact reading your post reminded me of this logistical issue..

I do like that 3rd routine of yours - though I don't feel comfortable lying about having a niece or anything. But I do have a story I could use that could be used to demonstrate something similar now you mention it..

But holy hell - this gem:
Putting the finger up and shhing her - that's brilliant. Most of my dates when the girl is talking confidently about something I tend to think I'm giving away my power by sitting there smiling at her like an idiot - I usually think this makes me come across as not much of a challenge. But kissing her midway would not only give into my desires (I usually want to kiss her when looking at her like this but hold off), but also come across as dominant, and me rewarding her for turning me on - a complete 180 from how I currently handle these situations. Want to really practice this one..
 

West_Indian_Archie

Tribal Elder
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Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
375
>deep diving questions in one of the articles here that says to ask her "what do you think of me so far"

Just a matter of personal style, I do not engage in "meta" stuff regarding the date.
  • What do you think of me?
  • What do you think of the date?
  • You're losing me!
  • Gaining Points!
I find that it tends to take me out of the moment, and I have a suspicion that the girl goes out of the moment and into "analysis".

I don't like to bog her down with needless mental baggage and friction. (A discussion of being too smooth is a topic for another time)

When I ask her what she's thinking, usually we're deep into attraction/comfort, like you are in the scenario mentioned above.

The goal is not to mine her thoughts for information, but to give her permission to be more free with herself.

Obviously, I'm likely to see benefits as "loose lips suck dicks", but at the "frame" level, the fact that she responds to me, that she engages with this type of request means that I am the one who is now in charge of how she feels. That takes the responsibility off of her.

Again, this is my mental model of how women behave.
  • They prefer to feel rather than think.
  • She would rather not make a decision, she would rather confirm whatever decision is made. If it turns out poorly, she will blame someone else, never herself.
  • They prefer to go with the crowd, rather than stand on her own.
  • She prefers the pleasures of now to the drudgery of tomorrow.
  • Sex is fun and free, and has no downsides
Keep in mind, none of these things are true in any sort of objective/double blind, random/scientific testing sort of way. We all know girls who do this, and then don't do it.

They are useful fictions. They are useful to me, because if I think women are like this, I will act accordingly, and she often (though not always) responds accordingly.

Women are random and chaotic, and if a woman suspects that you think she will do X, she will do Y just to spite you. She forever wants to be a mystery and original, even though everything she says is predictable and she dresses like all the other girls you deal with. She maintains her own fictions.

WIA
 
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