How much money do you need to get top-tier results with women? (NOT "do women care about money")

[metalbird]

This question has two different parts, but they're similar enough that it makes sense to group them together.

First off, this question is NOT about how money affects women's perception of you or attraction to you. Do women like money? Yes, everyone likes money. Is it possible to seduce hotties while rich, poor, or literally any net worth/income bracket? Yes.

Now that that's established, I wanna ask the following questions to the community:

1. Given the material costs of dating and seduction:

• logistics/transportation
• paying to go out/paying for dates (whether or you're not paying for the girl)
• ability to live in a "hot spot" where top-tier women exist (generally major cities)
• ability to devote time to dating/seduction, which is time away from working or anything else
• ability to attract and bed the many high-value women who screen for high net worth via social media
• ability to attract and bed the many high-value women who are passively screened for affluence via their social circle
• cost of gym membership/high protein diet/supplements/meds, etc to maintain maximum health / fitness
• birth control of some form
• probably other costs I'm not thinking of

How much either net worth (money in the bank) OR income-to-free-time ratio does a man need to get top-tier results with women? In this case, I'm envisioning top-tier results as the ability to meet and quickly bed an abundant supply of top-shelf hotties and potential LTR prospects -- not running a train at the Playboy mansion with NFL players or something.

2. How much net worth OR income-to-time ratio does a man need in the 2020's to raise one (1) child AND be able to set that child up for future worldly success? Given that, at least in the USA, its clear that the gap between the "Haves" and the "Have Nots" is only getting wider at an accelerating rate, meanwhile both the business and dating worlds are getting more and more competitive:

• I get the feeling public schooling is pretty trash/brainwash-y/designed to set children up for a life of labor/servitude (ie FAILURE) -- so private school seems to be a necessary cost
• Cost of college tuition at a good school
• Ability to pay for expensive, high-quality health care, including "optional" procedures (orthodontics, plastic surgery for girls, etc) that insurance won't cover
• Cost of expensive extra-curriculars that distinguish children from the pack and equip them valuable and uncommon skills and life experiences
• Cost of inclusion for a child in high- or highish-level social circle

Thoughts?

- metalbird

 

[ulrich]

This one is really hard to answer because many of the things you list as requirements can be circumvented.

For example, living in a nice part of town is a “nice to have” but you can live somewhere closer, cheaper and use the public transportation.
Also, while girls tend to be prettier in the highest income circles, there are amazingly beautiful women in all income brackets.

Gym can go from 10 USD to 200 USD per month… it’s more about which one you prefer.

All in all, I think we have to separate NEEDs from WANTs.
Most of the things you list, you don’t need… there are ways to get lost of money and lots of women without most of them.

But, it is OK if you want them. If that’s the lifestyle you want, go for it.
I’m guessing you would need 120K USD per year at least to live that kind of lifestyle (80K USD when single).

Just remember, that is because you want those things, they are not necessary.

 

[Skills]

scientific studies say that all you need is to make 75k usd, to live happy, after that happiness does not increase.... I have access to most peoples finances due to the industry i am in... I can tell you what is important is not earnings Michael Jackson, was a broke millionare, same with jhonny deph... What matters is the debt to income ratio.... You want at least a debt to income ratio 38% of lower after facturing all expenses.... This is how you calculate a debt to income ratio:

Add all of your monthly bills including housing divide this by gross income, this will give you the debt to income ratio, ideally you want 38% or lower anything above 50% is bad, 38% or lower ideal.

If i am you i would look and study minimalism, and sigma lifestyle....... I would delay having kids as much as possible, kids are expensive and stressful....... Prior to kids get a puppy so you can get a preview of how is having a kid.....(from reputable breeder, no from animal shelter)...

 

[StrayDog]

How are you defining a high value woman here? For me it is more about her attitude towards life than anything. That is what is valuable
-she understands what it means to be supportive in a relationship and is committed to being a solid partner
-she values the simple joys in life and knows what is truly important/ doesn't get caught up in the spectacle of societies more image based aspect.
-She understands the importance of, and is devoted to the maintenance of her mind, body, and character.
-She is fun and easy to be around

Yes money can help a bit in developing these sort of qualities, but isn't entirely necessary. So, do you need to life in some bouji part of town to have access to this type of woman? No. Sure access to resources make it easier to develope these qualities. But it does not guarantee them. And this is true for developing these sort of qualities yourself (add being a strong leader, for good measure). So the notion that "quality" women only reside in certain corners of the world seems to be a fallacy to me. Yes, culture counts for a lot, and poverty often comes with an unfourtunately un-healthy culture. But affluence does not guarantee soundness of character. Are there pockets of culture that are more in tune with these sort of positive and desirable character traits? Yes, but where these pockets reside and what resources you need to access them is a pretty relative sort of matter.

What money does help with is solve some basic problems. Like access to resources. That certainly counts for something not insignificant. But beyond this, it doesn't solve much. So, when seeking to answere your question I think we just have to look at the most basic base line of what it takes to develope and maintain these sorts of qualities. The most basic level is really not all that expensive. There are plenty of resources, and means of developing these sorts of qualities that are free and readily available at any moment. A pushup is a great example here. Sure you could buy access to some of the best of the best coaches in any field of development, and that would probably count for a lot. But it is not entirely necessary. So, all of this is to say that yes money counts for something but it is also very relative when it comes to quality and soundness of character. Don't be in dire straights financially. Keep striving to have access to valuable resources. Have at least enough money that you are afforded at least the most basic access to resources conducisive to personal development and well being. There is definitely a sweet spot with money where it makes life easier (as Skillz mentioned, science points to about 75k annually), but understand it is only one piece of the puzzle. High quality women exist in all corners of the world, as do high quality men.

Now raising kids, that's a different story...

Edit: was framing post in terms of an LTR. But the same concepts I outlined here can apply to quality women for ONS or FWB. Though there might be some minor tweaks, I believe the idea still stands

 

[Chase]

@metalbird,

Here’s my math for the minimum financial requirements to bed a bevy of top shelf chicks. This assumes you are already very good with girls:

• Logistics: tiny apartment in outskirts of big city: $400/mo. Subway/metro tickets: $30/mo.
  
  
• Date fees: $0 for park dates, walking dates, beach dates, errand dates
  
  
• Cost of living in big city: aside from apt cost (see #1), allot $250 for food you cook yourself & $100 for utilities
  
  
• Time for seduction: free (I assume you are not paying someone for your own time)
  
  
• Bedding women who use social media: free (various ways to say “I’m not on there”)
  
  
• Bedding women who screen via social circle: free (various ways to win over groups)
  
  
• Cost of max health: $33 one-time — cost is for a door-frame pull-up bar; all other muscles you can train without anything else. Skip the gym membership, do calisthenics, swim in the river, run. Also supplements — an entire silly industry of crap you don’t need that often does more harm than good
  
  
• Birth control: free — we’re talking top-shelf women, why would you want to use birth control? Jokes aside, either pull out or use broke scoundrel game and put the onus for picking up condoms on her

So we’re looking at $780/mo + a one-time $33 expenditure to do what you’re looking to do on the thinnest possible budget. I would allot double that, because you are probably going to want to grab stuff on dates sometimes (a beverage, a yogurt, an apple, some other snack, etc.) and you might want to go to bars/clubs sometimes (cover fees, drink prices). You may also want to upgrade your wardrobe every so often. Maybe eat out sometimes. Or have a few condoms on you. None of this stuff is mandatory though.

Realistically you should aim for something paying you at least $1500/mo if you want those kinds of results. Obviously you need to be able to unplug from the normal system most people are trapped in of “I have to do all these things and buy all this crap or else I won’t be part of the hierarchy!” but fortunately getting unplugged from that is exactly what lets you step around all the nonsense and get top shelf women without having to turn yourself into a famous multimillionaire first.

As for your #2 question…

• Public schools in the US (most countries, really) are heavily dependent on the socioeconomic class of the area. Move to an area full of wealthy families and surprise, some of the best schools in the country. But you will have to shell out for a $1.5M mortgage with 20% down to pick up a home there, or be paying many thousands a month in rent. Private schools are a more affordable option for a decent education in the US without living among the rich. That may run you $12K/year or more per child. You can do homeschooling even cheaper, but of course you need one of the parents to stay home and do that
  
  
• College tuition — questionable how necessary that is going to be in, say, 20 years when your kid is 18. Focus on teaching your child at least two monetizeable skills once he hits his preteens, help him set up his first freelance business a few years after, and get him to the point where he can afford his own college tuition, or won’t bother because he already had enough offers or a thriving enough business to not have the time or inclination to attend a university. Or send him to community college cheap, but help him choose a major he can be successful with (most parents just send their kids and go, and the kids graduate with a gender studies degree and $100K in student loans they can never pay down with their gender studies Starbucks barista career... complete waste of both time and money if you do college that way)
  
  
• Expensive healthcare — go to Mexico for dental work; I guess you could for plastic surgery too, but why the heck are you having plastic surgery done to your daughters?
  
  
• Distinguishing extra-curriculars: buy some decent camping gear ($200), take your kids outdoors, and teach them to read constellations and navigate by the stars. Buy some decent climbing gear ($300) and take them climbing on some safe-but-challenging climbs. Teach them to start a fire in the woods with sticks and rocks, make an oven from stones from the wilderness, identify edible berries and nuts, etc. Get a wilderness survival book on this for $15 or watch YouTube videos for free. Maybe have them build a house from natural stones with handmade mortar — only cost is the land you build it on (can be very cheap). Buy the book Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain for $15, art supplies for $25, and go through the exercises until your kids are better artists than 99.9% of people. All these are infinitely better than Lola’s $20,000/year ballet classes where she only ever gets mediocre at dancing or Benjamin’s $30,000/year expert painting class where he goofs off the whole time and barely learns anything
  
  
• Cost of inclusion in a high or high-ish level social circle: if you do all the above, it’s free. Most high level circles have one or two folks in them without much money who are in them by sheer virtue of character and ability. Make your kid that kid

Of course you could always just get filthy rich too, and pay your way into everything.

But what is actually benefiting the child more… that or the above?

Even if you WERE filthy rich, would it be better to just pay his way into everything, or do the above with him?

Chase

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Some great responses already.

To your point on this:

2. How much net worth OR income-to-time ratio does a man need in the 2020's to raise one (1) child AND be able to set that child up for future worldly success? Given that, at least in the USA, its clear that the gap between the "Haves" and the "Have Nots" is only getting wider at an accelerating rate, meanwhile both the business and dating worlds are getting more and more competitive:

As studies have shown/Skills said happiness doesn't increase after 70K a year. With current levels of inflation you're safe making that figure 80-95K though.

With that said don't underestimate how much having free time multiplies your actual earnings.

For example if you have a remote online source of income & only earn 50K instead of 70K you can getaway with savings such as:

• Paying for a cheap gym and working out during the day while everyone is at work
• Going on holiday during off season when prices are cheaper
• Shopping around farmer's markets and choosing sales

This makes you more valuable to the "top shelf" woman too. Being a wife to a balding, overweight banker pulling 100K a year vs an in-shape, charming and socially free 60K a year guy who's got time to take an active role in a kid's life and you can very much compete.

Logistics: tiny apartment in outskirts of big city: $400/mo. Subway/metro tickets: $30/mo.

Respectfully disagree with this part but loved everything else you said. In London (and most of the 1st world) $400/mo even in the outskirts would barely get you a hospitable room sharing an apartment with strangers.


A hard to swallow reality for many is that if you're a man living in the 1st world and want a "good" life. You need to excel in multiple areas with finance being one of the main foundations. In my humble opinion you need to make 10K a month, location independent income to truly have no worries and be able to have a "good" life ANYWHERE in the world, with or without kids and not just tier 2 countries (which isn't bad, if that's your thing).


P.S never thought I'd be taking legit financial advice from our very own club playboy @Skills ... Took the test and I'm at 30% lol

 

[StrayDog]

• Distinguishing extra-curriculars: buy some decent camping gear ($200), take your kids outdoors, and teach them to read constellations and navigate by the stars. Buy some decent climbing gear ($300) and take them climbing on some safe-but-challenging climbs. Teach them to start a fire in the woods with sticks and rocks, make an oven from stones from the wilderness, identify edible berries and nuts, etc. Get a wilderness survival book on this for $15 or watch YouTube videos for free. Maybe have them build a house from natural stones with handmade mortar — only cost is the land you build it on (can be very cheap). Buy the book Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain for $15, art supplies for $25, and go through the exercises until your kids are better artists than 99.9% of people. All these are infinitely better than Lola’s $20,000/year ballet classes where she only ever gets mediocre at dancing or Benjamin’s $30,000/year expert painting class where he goofs off the whole time and barely learns anything

All about this out-of-the-box sort of thinking. While it is definitely important to have solid instruction to learn a skill, what really drives a kid the excel at it is an environment that supports and inspires a consistent engagement with that activity. Another way to go about this is to have your child gather a group of friends with similar interests and help guide them as they work out their own projects. You and other parents can split costs (even if that means hiring a coach every now and then). This can also be a good way for your child to learn some leadership skills. If the whole endeavor is fun and social, and they have enough resources and guidance, they will naturally take to learning the thing. This can be a very low-cost endeavor and make your kid very popular. I mean who wants to just play video games all summer when you can go out on adventures with your friends and bring your sketchbooks and draw cool things. Besides, you can always play video games afterward. The key is just making it fun and easygoing. It can end up being very low cost

• Cost of inclusion in a high or high-ish level social circle: if you do all the above, it’s free. Most high level circles have one or two folks in them without much money who are in them by sheer virtue of character and ability. Make your kid that kid

If you are good at instilling the values it takes to pull off the sort of project-based extracurricular learning I just outlined, you are setting your kid up to be very popular. They will naturally take to being the one in the group who is leading fun and novel endeavors with their friends. The more these sorts of endeavors are successful the more other children will want to be involved. Of course, this strategy means you yourself will have to invest some time and interest into your child's interests. But if you are not prepared for that, should you be having kids anyway?

The thing with these out-of-the-box creative mindsets is that they go a very long way, and actually give you quite the edge with women over certain men who have access to more material resources but are thinking more routinely. Take travel for instance. Let's say your girl is wanting a fun exotic travel adventure but you don't quite have the funds for it at the moment. Well, I tend to adopt a travelers sort of mindset wherever I am, at any given moment. Meeting new people, seeing new sights, learning interesting things about local cultures, the history of a place and so on. This can be done right in the city where you live. Have you seen all the different pockets of culture? Have you experienced all the unique aspects of your city? Learned every bit of history and local custom? Hell, most people can live in a city their entire life and barely even scratch the surface of what it is about. I have lived in the city I am for a rather long time and I am still finding new experiences and meeting new cool people. I have walked this city front at back and know things about it most people who have lived here their whole life barely even have a sense of it. She wants to go on an adventure. Oh, I'll take her on one, for sure. I'll show here how vast her tiny little corner of the world is. Right under her nose. Plus I will barely even have to spend a dime doing it. Yes, going to exotic foreign lands can take this sense of adventure and up it tenfold. But it will be even more special when it is a rare treat. This kind of mindset will endear a woman to you very deeply as she will have this sense that whenever she is with you the world becomes expansive and full of possibility. Now, compare this to the man whose only real sense of adventure requires a good amount of money and travel. He will probably set a precedent for this. The couple will then come to associate adventure with expensive plane tickets, hotel costs, restaurants, touristy endeavors, and so on. This is a tricky precedent to get out of and will, to some degree, become expected of the relationship to maintain that sense of adventure. Quite a trap indeed. Furthermore, this kind of lifestyle can end up feeling very routine, despite it appearing "adventurous" on the outside. Think outside the box, and have some disposable cash, you are extra golden but definitely start with out-of-the-box thinking above all else.

Something many of my former partners have told me, even after they have gone on to find another partner with significantly more material resources than me, is that she has never been able to meet someone with quite the same sense of spontaneous adventure and wonder that I possess. Now if she had only been able to tame my wild heart...

 

[Skills]

Some great responses already.

To your point on this:


As studies have shown/Skills said happiness doesn't increase after 70K a year. With current levels of inflation you're safe making that figure 80-95K though.

With that said don't underestimate how much having free time multiplies your actual earnings.

For example if you have a remote online source of income & only earn 50K instead of 70K you can getaway with savings such as:

• Paying for a cheap gym and working out during the day while everyone is at work
• Going on holiday during off season when prices are cheaper
• Shopping around farmer's markets and choosing sales

This makes you more valuable to the "top shelf" woman too. Being a wife to a balding, overweight banker pulling 100K a year vs an in-shape, charming and socially free 60K a year guy who's got time to take an active role in a kid's life and you can very much compete.




Respectfully disagree with this part but loved everything else you said. In London (and most of the 1st world) $400/mo even in the outskirts would barely get you a hospitable room sharing an apartment with strangers.


A hard to swallow reality for many is that if you're a man living in the 1st world and want a "good" life. You need to excel in multiple areas with finance being one of the main foundations. In my humble opinion you need to make 10K a month, location independent income to truly have no worries and be able to have a "good" life ANYWHERE in the world, with or without kids and not just tier 2 countries (which isn't bad, if that's your thing).


P.S never thought I'd be taking legit financial advice from our very own club playboy @Skills ... Took the test and I'm at 30% lol

I had a typo is monthly bills including housing divided by gross... if you did that and you are 30% really good... and yeah in usa is none existent $400 now a days, aa well... minimum $800.00.. house and rental super inflated which is why fed raising rates to kill inflation in general....

 

[metalbird]

Thanks for the great feedback and responses.

I lived a very minimalist lifestyle for a few years in my twenties, and frankly, during that time, seduction was indeed the easiest for me it's ever been. You've never truly experienced game until you've done "hot broke scoundrel" game. Really reveals women's true inner psychology.

It really wasn't until I started contemplating having kids that the "sigma male" lifestyle didn't sit well with me anymore, since I don't really want to be an absentee father to a bunch of kids with different mothers.

Since then I've begrudgingly gone back into the corporate world, and with that, back into the money trap that is the rat race -- paying for work clothes, work lunches, high cost of living area, dry cleaning, etc. And my time is so scarce now, I can't realistically cook for myself or do things the "slow, cheap" way anymore. It's the classic situation. At least I don't have a mortgage or wife I don't care for. I just want to know how long I have to do this until I can get out again and have a family.

I wouldn't mind living in a broom closet. Unfortunately there's not a one-bedroom within 100 miles of the office under $1500/mo.

Also, as a small note, the only fitness supplement I take is creatine. Tried it for a few months after ~2 years of lifting, didn't see any difference, so I stopped. Tried it again after 4 years of lifting and a hard-stuck plateau -- it immediately doubled how many reps I was maxing out at across the board. Worth the $40/mo for me for the performance boost.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

This question has two different parts, but they're similar enough that it makes sense to group them together.

First off, this question is NOT about how money affects women's perception of you or attraction to you. Do women like money? Yes, everyone likes money. Is it possible to seduce hotties while rich, poor, or literally any net worth/income bracket? Yes.

Now that that's established, I wanna ask the following questions to the community:

1. Given the material costs of dating and seduction:

• logistics/transportation
• paying to go out/paying for dates (whether or you're not paying for the girl)
• ability to live in a "hot spot" where top-tier women exist (generally major cities)
• ability to devote time to dating/seduction, which is time away from working or anything else
• ability to attract and bed the many high-value women who screen for high net worth via social media
• ability to attract and bed the many high-value women who are passively screened for affluence via their social circle
• cost of gym membership/high protein diet/supplements/meds, etc to maintain maximum health / fitness
• birth control of some form
• probably other costs I'm not thinking of

How much either net worth (money in the bank) OR income-to-free-time ratio does a man need to get top-tier results with women? In this case, I'm envisioning top-tier results as the ability to meet and quickly bed an abundant supply of top-shelf hotties and potential LTR prospects -- not running a train at the Playboy mansion with NFL players or something.

This is very contextual, and by putting a dollar amount on it, I personally feel like guys will miss the point about good pick up.

Logistics/Transportation - This is basically proximity to your primary "hunting grounds". Ideal is within 5-10 minutes walking distance. In the states, it really depends on where you want to meet people, but in general the "bars, clubs, restaurants, night life areas" are the more expensive places to live. Let's assume you're a short drive away from venues - call it 20 bucks. If you can get there via public transit, but have to spend money to get home - let's call it 400 bucks.

Dates/Cost of Going Out - things like drinks, cover fees, meals - If you're learning, I'm expecting between 20-50 per night * 5 nights * 4 weeks - Call it a 1K. (1,400)

Ability to live in a hot spot - There's about 2-3000 difference between living in a good neighborhood in NYC vs a boring one. So Call that 3k but subtract the 400 for logistics. 2600 (Running total 3600 per month)

Time for seduction - Learning, I think a guy needs about 250-300 hours over 3 months to get the basics down, everything after that is refinement. So whatever your per hour wage is, time 300. If you're living in the best part of NYC (4k rent after tax, implies 16k salary after tax, which is 16/0.6 which is about 27K pre-tax) - that's about 30K post tax earnings in time spent chasing chicks, when you could be chasing a business. Amortized? 1500 a month - 4100 total

That said, chasing a business while young and getting the girl at 38 vs getting the girls at 24 and chasing the business later. Hard to value that one.

HNW on Social Media - Flashy lifestyle specifically for attracting women very much depends. Being seen at the right restaurants, and buying the right designers. 1 of each per week? Along with a quarterly exotic vacation? I couldn't begin to calculate that.

Screening for Hot Rich Chicks - That's not a # that can be calculated.

Keeping a great physique - If a guy is already at the proper BMI, maybe a little musculature is useful, that's about it. Can we calculate a cost for not eating french fries and drinking beer everyday? I don't know. A luxury gym is 200 in most places, along with say 50 bucks in supplements. Guys do go to extremes with steroids, human growth hormone, testosterone replacement therapy, plastic surgery - but those guys aren't running game.

Birth Control - couple hundred pack of trojans probably equates to 30 bucks a month.

I'm guessing about 4,200-4,500 a month, and whatever the guy wants to splash on luxury living for the 'Gram.

Going Beyond your question

Finance/economic discussion is just wrong headed when it comes to game. It limits the how guys think about the overall problem. It's like accountants trying to design a car. It's like engineers trying to design a car, not a designer.

The prime markets - 18-25 - don't really care about money, they care about fun, which is why same aged rich guys often lose out to so-called bad boys at the very same venue. The typical FAANG programmer pulling down 250-350k a year doesn't hit those primal instincts, despite his 6 figures and 6 pack or IG with 6 continents of travel. The Rust expert ends up outplaying the jock by being more emotionally interesting. Not necessarily funnier (typically laughter breaks tension, when we want to build tension), but the more interesting to the girl on an emotional level.

Pick up/Game is about creating psychological/psycho-social attraction - something that goes straight into the brain chemistry/straight to the reptilian brain - rather than something a girl consciously thinks about. The point is to tap into those animal drives, which is why sex talk/sensuality is so important to this stuff. Which is why touch is so powerful. It's why dancing can really get a chick moving in a particular direction without a word being said.

A guy need only look the part enough, to get past initial defense. I.e. not look homeless, no beer belly, smell decent, and have no obvious flaws - in order to get the chick involved in creating some value together. (this also runs into the typical problems, too skinny, too tall, too short, too much of this race, too much of that...but Game solves those issues - just needs to be more powerful - i.e. Short Indian guys gotta work harder in set, but that doesn't mean try harder)

WRT to Money

I don't think guys out of college should be trying to bag chicks the college way. If you're past 21, coffee plus a walk in the park should be over. Ikea furniture and roommates should be a thing of the past. That's a personal choice though. Plenty of 32 year olds are banging college girls on a dirty mattress in his Mom's basement. Cheap dates can turn a chick off before you get started. What used to be sweet at 19, is pathetic at 29.

But buying your way into pussy by proxy is also a bad move as well. Wearing the latest designer, to the hottest club, to sit there with bottle service, and hobnob with the actually rich and famous is still faking it. It's only a step above of prostitution. Holding out affluence as a draw, is prostitution on the low.

The Pimp way is to have these chicks make money for you, but this is not that type of discussion board.

Guys need to think past money.

Players I've met in the real world - they were 3 types
- Scavengers - they'd go after what was left when the party was done. This included some hotties. It's cheap and effective.
- Hunters - they'd go after what they wanted, and hit the chick with everything, depending on their style.
- Farmers - Dj's, Artists/Musicians, Club Promoters - they did something in the real world that attracted a lot of people, and then chose from what was offered. But the farmer can monetize what he does, and the game can pay him.

Obviously the hunter style gives the most choice, but if you're trying to be a shark in a place like LA or NYC, that's very expensive. Well It can be very expensive. You can whittle the prices down for each element. There's a better way.

IMO, the key to a more hunter style, is to establish a niche. Maybe you're into techno, then becoming a face/figure in that scene is more effective than trying to be a jack of all trades hunter that goes from Sunday Funday Brunches to Friday Night Ragers. Because the "I live in a 2 bedroom flat in Meatpacking" style is meant to appeal to every girl. If your fetish is Dominican chicks from Washington Heights - that is somewhat appealing, but being the promoter that brings in the Reggaeton acts is more appealing.

A guy might get the best quality by farming/building a platform, but he doesn't necessarily get EXACTLY who and what he wants. Michael Sartain is a good example of a platform builder. He will get a hot Vegas girl, because that's his social milieu and social circle, but he might not get a hot tourist in from Arizona.

The hunter will lose to the farmer, if the farmer's platform is greater - but that's only valuable to the farmer, if the girls is who he desires.

In my experience, choice becomes the thing that defines a player.

WIA

 

[climbingup]

I would also add on to the great replies here with, making 40k working in an Amazon warehouse carrying heavy boxes for a12 hour shift is in my opinion worse to making 40k working from home as a company's digital marketing expert.

One of these positions has growth, flexibility, ability to plan around your life. Also I assume it will be easier to game after working from home than another position.

 

[YS.]

Entirely depends on your definition of top tier.

You can have a pretty fun life with almost no money.

Also if you have good leverage skills you can always create value arbitrage or find leveraged situations instead of spending money. (A close friend of my routinely got into wild parties because he offered to be a free camera guy to one of the promoters.)

I think the American guys setting up epic logistics in Bali, Ukraine, Poland are doing it right for the cost/benefit/epic results ratio.

Money usually gets you access, opportunities and logistics. You can sorta compensate but you gotta pick your poison.

 

[climbingup]

I know people that work 12 hour warehouse shifts, 4 on, 4 off. They live in house shares and party extremely hard. A few are in their 20s and another few in their 40s, they probably have more fun lives than most corporate workers tbh

 

[Chase]

@DoWhatWorks,

Respectfully disagree with this part but loved everything else you said. In London (and most of the 1st world) $400/mo even in the outskirts would barely get you a hospitable room sharing an apartment with strangers.

Yeah man, I was talking what's achievable here, rather than necessarily what's desirable

I did the switch from nice-but-pricey studio apartment in the prime part of town to seedy tiny room in a house in the bad part of town for a few hundred bucks a month back in the day. It sucked for my ego but still worked fine for seduction. At first I thought girls would complain, me taking them to some little room in some guy's house in the bad part of town but they didn't complain and escalation to sex was easier than ever.

Purely for the sake of "what is possible", it is doable... if not necessarily desirable.

(I do think it's worth experiencing just once though, if only to shatter how you think about women... really it is amazing, dragging girls back to some tiny room in the outskirts and going right to sex... the first few times you're like "What? She actually came? Then she PUT OUT?" and then you get used to it)

A hard to swallow reality for many is that if you're a man living in the 1st world and want a "good" life. You need to excel in multiple areas with finance being one of the main foundations. In my humble opinion you need to make 10K a month, location independent income to truly have no worries and be able to have a "good" life ANYWHERE in the world, with or without kids and not just tier 2 countries (which isn't bad, if that's your thing).

I do not disagree!

If you want a life with all the creature comforts, and you want to live it in a high priced modern metropolis, and in the developed world, you are going to need the funds coming in to fuel that.

There are alternatives... forego the creature comforts... OR move out into the boonies where the creature comforts are cheaper... OR relocate to a developing nation... but if you want the whole thing, with all the frills, you're going to pay for it.

Chase

 

[climbingup]

Do many people players own their own home or have a mortgage? I am considering it but I dread that it will reduce my ability to travel. Quite a lot of the older players I know, don't have mortgages or own their own homes, they don't need to I guess because they don't lead with providing

 

[hey_lover]

Do many people players own their own home or have a mortgage? I am considering it but I dread that it will reduce my ability to travel. Quite a lot of the older players I know, don't have mortgages or own their own homes, they don't need to I guess because they don't lead with providing

Whether it's better to rent or get a mortgage is entirely dependent on the price to rent ratio in your area. In London for example, it's cheaper to rent in a nice area than it is to get a mortgage on an equivalent property. People who want to get on the housing ladder are going further and further outside of the city to find affordable properties.

 

[sab]

It depends on what stage of life you are in. If you are young and sociable, you need very little. A young backpacker with little money can meet and pick a lot of hot girls in his path . I have seen some not great looking guys pick some great looking women by just simply dancing salsa with them. They did not look rich at all. They were not great dancers either. And probably without even a game. Older guys may need money/resources to show status perhaps to impress certain women.

 

[climbingup]

It depends on what stage of life you are in. If you are young and sociable, you need very little. A young backpacker with little money can meet a lot of hot girls on his path. I have seen some not great looking guys pick some great looking women by just simply dancing salsa with them. They did not look rich at all. They were not great dancers either. And probably without even a game. Older guys may need money/resources to show status perhaps to impress certain women.

In terms of life, does a man even need to make much money?

If a man has a lifetime salary high of 40 or 50k, he can still have a quality life and meet quality partners. As we have seen one's salary doesn't really affect one's ability to meet women. It's just crazy to think their is this obsession to earn high 6 figure salaries when tbh women don't care about that stuff and one's happiness does not even increase that much after a certain amount of salary.

 

[Lover]

In terms of life, does a man even need to make much money?

It definitely helps to not think about saving more money if you suddenly need to spend a signficant amount on unexpected things. Or if you want to invest, you can still invest with a significant amount of your cash, and you won't hurt your bank account one bit if your investments burn to the ground.

However, the kind of work I'm doing is location dependent, and that puts a limitation on the things I would rather spend my time on. But there is no way around this if I continue my line of work

 

[climbingup]

It's amazing to think about. We are told and conditioned to think if we make more money, we'll have more girls and a better life.

What we then end up finding out, is that it doesn't really work like that. Most women in a first world country are not impressed one bit by high salaries. You can have a man making 40k and another making 100k, the guy making 100k may not necessarily be more happier than the guy making 40k.

The main thing from all this, is to be a man who designs their own life and is able to analyse himself to see what his true desires are and remove the socially conditioned ones.