I approached over 2000 women in 9 months. I haven't got laid once.

[famineofcrows]

To be frank, I never found any real correlation between the chances of “success” or any of the above ways.

the 'method' isn't really that relevant, tbh (within reason. You can't be completely insane and uncalibrated to the point you even scare off the girls who would swipe right on you if it was tinder lol)

But that's why there's so many 'experts' who disagree with each other in every tiny nuance of game.

Not just direct vs indirect (where each side will die on their hill) but even down to much more minute details about how one should and shouldn't 'run game'. You can get amazing results with direct, or indirect, being serious and stoic, or being goofy and humorous. The list is endless. They all work as good as each other over a large enough sample

Cold approach is essentially a game of finding the girls who are into you (when infields in experts approach a girl who clearly isn't interested, it never ever ends in a lay)

The better your 'fundamentals' (how good your fashion is, how in shape you are, how handsome you are, how tall etc) the more girls you will find who are open to being gamed by you

And from that point, where you've opened a girl who is clearly receptive/interested/attracted, you really don't need to do anything amazing tbh. Just chat, show some intent, and it will all tend to take care of itself in my experience. But if you've already got 50+ lays, i'd say you are already pretty proficient at banging girls who are into you, and that's all anyone can ask for.

 

[Skills]

Lol. I never count. I only guesstimate based on the sheer volume and the amount of time spent.

I stopped counting the lays I got after first 10. I estimate around 40-50.

Funny thing is that with quite a of these lays, I never really remembered the girls name, in a few cases I don’t think I actually ever got her name properly in the first place!

This illustrates how quick and random some of these interactions were from the approach to the lay. I literally approached them, propositioned them, they gave me their number in seconds and came out to meet me later. Or had an insta date and went back to a hotel shortly after.

Of course, a substantial number of them were much more drawn out over a course of 2-3 dates and initial approach was much longer.

Once again, I emphasise that I did multiple thousands over many years and I tried all sorts of approaches :

1) rapid shotgun sexual propositions like I described above
2) semi direct compliments, trying to engage in longer conversation before asking them out
3) indirect or opinion based openers
4) funny irrelevant type openers or conversations
5) some conversations I had were up to half hour long before number swap
6) some of the conversations I had were literally a few seconds before number swap
7) etc

To be frank, I never found any real correlation between the chances of “success” or any of the above ways.

They all seem to be entirely RANDOM. It really seems to me women make up their mind about you if they want to fuck you or at least meet you again within literally seconds.

op you would benefit for deep diving into different stuff man! for example read this:

Restrain from arriving to seduction conclusions during down periods

We all go through bad streaks in pick up (i know a lot of you have been having just successes or just failures cause you have not been in the game long enough both tend to happen), life, break ups, relationships etc.... During those times no matter how much experience you have with social...

www.skilledseducer.com

and we discuss in detail your style of game approach here:

Screening game has been high jacked and bastardized

Guys a bit of rambling cause i am just disgusted and fuming (again why i avoid pick up content) context.- I have not watched pua content for a while, i don't know somewhere along the line i lost interest, i would say the last 5 years, got repetitive and water down and shifted to more of those...

www.skilledseducer.com

^ you can complain all you want, but if you don't understand the meta and the why, and what can be done better, you are going in circles:

- if you are really 6" 3
- fit
-50 lays


and you putting in the numbers, there is something totally off.... You can go repeating yourself blaming external factor.... But you need a mirror and figure out based on your approaches what is going on, and find angles.....

I have been frustrated when i don't get the results i am used to usually is:

- fundamentals
- target poor environments
-drastic change in dynamics
- outdated or flawed strategies


^ Best thing to do is find you what the guys in london are doing, what strategies etc.... We have some london guys for example dww, top cat etc....

this me against the forum attituted and george constance bs won't help you man...

 

[James Cruse]

1) I am white but not originally British. I am associated with other 2 countries that I won't name here. I have a thick strange foreign accent and diction. This means some women I approach are immediately thrown off by the way I sound when I speak - if this affects my results, I don't know.

Edit: thinking about it, it does seem to me that at least some women are thrown off initially by my weird accent and this leads to an air of "scepticism" about me, although this is usually overridden by my fashion, looks and style...

2) People have guessed all sorts of things about my ethnicity / nationality: France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Israel, Poland, Russia, Kazakhstan, the list goes on. If this helps or hinders - I don't know.

First issue - based on what people are guessing; You're accent sounds like it's from Eastern Europe or the 'stans', which are essentially the LEAST attractive accents white men can have (for white women) in a first world western country, according to women.

Foreign Accents: I've said this before on here, but so many guys underestimate how much a foreign non-native to english accent in an English speaking country hurts them, even another 1st world accent. It even hurts your chances of making FRIENDS in that country, let alone dating.

I know Greek men, French men, Italian men, German men, men from Spain and the Netherlands - who tell me that they're told by 1st world native English-speaking western women that their accents really hurt their dating and make communication a chore for those women.
These guys speak english at an expert level, but with moderate - thick accents.

The thick accent has always been a huge obstacle for seduction and even friendship with native english speaking women, unfortunately.

These guys are all white and tall and attractive and find themselves only being able to date other women who have non-native english speaking accents. This isn't always reflective of people in the seduction community - but it's certainly a huge issue with guys with accents.

If yours doesn't sound first world, even Russian or further east, this compounds the above issue further and is even less attractive to women.

5) I am more of an introvert. I dislike crowds, I like being out in nature. I only go to crowded areas to try to pick up women, otherwise I wouldn't be there. Places like busy shopping streets are not my idea of fun, but I go there because again, I need to meet women somehow...

Second problem: Body Language. This part indicates to me you're likely tense, anxious, nervous and lacking confidence and it's showing in your body language.
You really need to find a way to enjoy these place and situations and make them fun for yourself. It's certainly a challenge, but worth it long term.

6) I have shitty logistics. I live in London, but on the outskirts: it's around 1 hour commute from central areas.

Third Issue:
Logistics aren't the problem and aren't really relevant. So many guys here blame "logistics" - you can have sex with her in your car, in a private place anywhere nearby. Pick a private place nearby and that's your sex location.

You don't NEED to go back to your place (or hers) to have sex with her, it's just not necessary. You're not thinking abundantly.

How I approach: I tend to vary, but most of my approaches are very direct,

Fourth Issue: Stop being direct - it's lazy and unseductive. It's better to warm the frog before you boil it. Women want their emotions stimulated, none of what you're doing is stimulating. Do you even know seduction?

progress the interaction towards a hook up fast, rather than drawn out multiple dates. That's the only style that actually got me a measly few lays in the last 8 or so years - same day instadate pulls to a hotel / her place or meetings at a hotel / hers / mine on a first "date" if instadate was not possible. Anything more drawn out - women either flake or something else comes up and we never end up meeting again.

Fifth Issue: My guess is you're taking alot of phone numbers rather than ALWAYS going for instadate>same day lay.
As I always say, phone numbers are a consolation after exhausting everything else for an instadate and same day lay.

A woman could be head over heels for you when you take her number and a million things could happen in between. The same happens in sales - move them as far through the process as possible using the momentum you've built right now with them in person.

My approaches are usually very shotgun style. I hate "gaming". It doesn't work for me. I like being upfront and getting to the heart of the matter. What I say upon approach: usually, it's a variation of a direct basic simple complement (like "Hi, you look great") and then either an immediate question or offer to get together intimately, for example:

1) "Let's get together"
2) "Let's get together for a night of pleasure"
3) "Would you like to have a drink at my place?"
4) "Are you seeing anyone / are you single?"

Sixth Issue: These are the absolute worst ways to transition from the opener. You hate gaming because you're a male and you want to be logical (we all do lol).
None of this is seduction or even ADJACENT to actual seduction, it's just saying logical stuff that doesn't stimulate women or their emotions at all. You're only saying them because you think it's the bare minimum.

This is simply lazy beginner-intermediate talk that amounts to:
"I just don't want to put any effort into the most crucial part of the cold approach. I just want to be low effort and super logical and I'm going to tell myself it's for a "moral" and pragmatic reason, even when it's very boring and unseductive to women"

These are the openers I've been flogging thousands upon thousands of times over the years. 99.9% of women either say "I can't", "I have a boyfriend", or "I am not interested..." The other 0.01% I get laid. Many women who say they have a boyfriend - I am inclined to believe them, many of them even get their phone out and show a picture of him...

This is going to be a punch in the guts: Many of those women who said this were LYING and they were just knee-jerk responding to your POOR lazy approach, it was never rejecting YOU yourself. Plenty of women I've dated and slept with lied about having a boyfriend when I met her.
They were simply rejecting your poor approach/presentation or were scared to engage with you so made up something that makes her seem desirable (in her mind).

1) 90% of women dress like clones of each other. Especially young women. Same shitty baggy jeans and nondescript shirt or jacket. Like mass produced copies of each other. There is nothing unique to me about the way they dress or carry themselves. So the only criteria for me is that they look fuckable.

Yeah, water is wet and this is the nature of women. Women have always been followers of others - it's one of the main reasons men are attracted to women and women to men; men are the leaders and women are the followers. It extends to other areas of life like their fashion and behaviour.

2) After trialling it thousands of times, these longer more interesting conversations still end up 99% of the time with them saying how sweet and nice of me it was to approach them, but alas they have a boyfriend. So I'd rather hear them say this 20 seconds after my approach rather than 5 minutes after my approach. Women seem to make up their mind about me in seconds, no matter what the subject of the conversation is...

Yeah, I've approached a tonne of women that said they had boyfriends and later found they didn't. This is just a nice rejection or obstacle, depending on how you look at it. Suprise - women LIE.

If women are usually rejecting you by being very nice - it's a very bad sign and the reason is because you're very low value to them. I prefer harsher rejections.
I'm guessing this low value is seen through the previous: 2nd/3rd World Accent, poor body language, logical & unseductive verbals.

I can't do this anymore. I am incredibly starved for sex and intimacy. I need to find a find a normal, young, slim, attractive white girl to fuck regularly. (and no, I am not into asians, middle easterners or black women). I need a normal girlfriend. The prospect of yet another lonely summer is not what I want to face. I've been lonely most of my life. Surely it can't be that hard to find a normal young ish attractive white girl who I have good chemistry with, in a city of 8 million people?

Question: Did you do well in the country you're originally from? If so why or why not? Have you thought about returning there and meeting women?

1) I seem to do much better with daygame, and in general, when I am back in my original country of birth.

Well the accent won't be an issue there, as a bonus and you look and act like the guys of that country. Why not return there?

When I was in my country of birth last time in 2018, I matched with virtually every single woman on Tinder I swiped on. And this is the country where women are in general much better looking than a typical woman in UK. When back in London, my Tinder matches dropped hugely.

So go back there to live.

2) I do much better with women in UK in smaller cities like Brighton and Bristol

Everyone everywhere finds women in smaller towns easier to seduce than women in major cities, this is fairly universal.

Yeah I noticed that's very common for Gen Z women. It's rare now to see other women in skirts and dresses in the US too. A lot of them are also in workout clothes (even when they're not working out), sweatpants or in their pajamas because they really don't care how they're dressed when going out. I find this less common in Asian culture (no biggie you're not into them though I think your preferences eliminate many amazing women)

This is completely untrue. You know we can actually see what women are wearing ourselves. Women wear less now than ever in history, in every aspect of everywhere in the West. Bizarre that you would say otherwise.

Depends on the area yes, obviously in larger metro areas (where there's more of a clubbing or raving scene) - LA/NYC/Miami/Vegas/London or near universities known for partying, especially if there's a warmer weather & night time that's the case. But in more suburban areas or smaller cities and towns, I feel like the latter is more common (crop fitted tops and baggy jeans, workout clothes or loungewear).

Not at all true. Who are you trying to convince of this and why?

Not to derail the thread but I LOVE wearing a cute flowy blouse/mini skirt/dress/boots myself but I wear opaque or sheer tights + safety shorts underneath because I don't need my cheeks hanging out (gotta leave something to the imagination). Other times, high waisted bootcut or flared pants to elongate petite figure and cropped top (good for balancing a long torso). If I show a little cleavage, then I wear a long skirt or cover my legs. Short skirt? Then I cover my chest. For me, it's about balance - revealing top/modest bottom or revealing bottom/modest top.

ok, now we know - you're again using a negative comparison to other women to say you're "not like those other girls/different pick me" again. Makes sense, women on here can't help themselves.

1) rapid shotgun sexual propositions like I described above
2) semi direct compliments, trying to engage in longer conversation before asking them out
3) indirect or opinion based openers
4) funny irrelevant type openers or conversations
5) some conversations I had were up to half hour long before number swap
6) some of the conversations I had were literally a few seconds before number swap
7) etc

None of this is good seduction technique. This is all 20-30 year old out of date seduction. Have you ever actually read any seduction material in the past 10 years? Did you actually use it or test it.

Everything you've said above is time machine old and/or highly logical, boring and unseductive normie guy lines. Why would you think any of that would be seductive - to talk like an unseductive average guy?

Nothing you mentioned you did is tailored to actually seduce women; stimulating her emotions, sexual tension, qualifying her, challenging, nothing. Just plain average guy logical boring fluff.

Ask yourself, what about what you're saying and doing is seductive?

 

[AsianBabe69]

Not at all true. Who are you trying to convince of this and why?

Hey James, I notice you keep saying "Not at all true." in response to my statements and frankly it feels dismissive/invalidating. I'm sensing some negativity and confirmation bias, maybe absolute/black-and-white thinking from you and I hope that we can move past that.

I think everyone's experience here is true. But I'm also going to present more evidence of the latter as well. I'm just stating what I've observed over the years from a woman's POV. Maybe due to selective attention, some men also notice revealing outfits being more common to them because of their unconscious tendency to focus or remember more women wearing revealing clothing than women who are wearing average or modest clothing.

ok, now we know - you're again using a negative comparison to other women to say you're "not like those other girls/different pick me" again. Makes sense, women on here can't help themselves.

James, that's not my intention - it's fashion sense and aesthetics/personal taste. I don't dress for you or others. I dress mainly for myself and because I like how I feel in my clothes and it's one way to express myself. I get compliments from both women and men when I go out. And I also dress according to the occasion.

If it just happens that some men like it too, so be it. If I was "pick me" and dressing purely for male gaze then I'd dress according to what my husband prefers - which is either baggy comfortable clothing and sneakers, no makeup or a workout top and leggings or a tiny tight dress with no jewelry/individual style to show off my figure but every man is different.. But I usually don't because I like variety. I like alt, korean and asian fashion trends, but I also like classy, chic and feminine silhouettes + signature jewelry pieces and accessories.

 

[S.S Can]

Foreign Accents: I've said this before on here, but so many guys underestimate how much a foreign non-native to english accent in an English speaking country hurts them, even another 1st world accent. It even hurts your chances of making FRIENDS in that country, let alone dating.

I know Greek men, French men, Italian men, German men, men from Spain and the Netherlands - who tell me that they're told by 1st world native English-speaking western women that their accents really hurt their dating and make communication a chore for those women.
These guys speak english at an expert level, but with moderate - thick accents.

bro... nobody with a FRENCH or ITALIAN accent is getting blown out because of their accent holy cope

 

[Francis]

I feel like Francis is actually slaying.

Why did you not get nominated for SSOTM yet? You have my next vote.

Much appreciated man... It's funny Skills mentioned the count clicker because she mentioned using one in bed last night... James did nominate once... But I can still count lifetime cold approach lays with two hands.

Once I can reliably even approach in the first place and have achieved some real consistency, I would for sure share whatever insights have been gained by that point. Mainly I would love to meet Chase, but that would be a much more valuable discussion as Future Francis.

I've posted every approach, so can go back and count them later and check ratios.

tried all sorts of approaches :

They all seem to be entirely RANDOM

This would mean there is another variable to look at then? Like Skills touched on in his list.

Need more data:

- fully detailed fashion description
- transcripts of audio recordings

the 'method' isn't really that relevant, tbh (within reason

Yeah unless he is screening for immediate sexual compliance ("nice shoes, wanna fuck" type game).

If he has tried a lot of ways, there is something else going on we don't have info on. If the fashion and transcripts are good (there could be something guys will say "whoa whoa whoa" to), then we will need actual audio for delivery, and if no flags in that test, then an MRI.

^ Best thing to do is find you what the guys in london are doing, what strategies etc.... We have some london guys for example dww, top cat etc...

Very curious actually is @DoWhatWorks around... Do you have tips for direct head on street stops? London admittedly does look insanely fast paced and competitive. That Torero style grind looks intense.

@isildur1 gave some great detail last time. Have you tried the spots specifically? He named specific areas. I remember logistics were a consideration. You may want to find public isolation spots and then work backwards for your date spots (to unlock same-day-lay ability if day 2's are too much travel time).

inb4 defensiveness to James Cruse. Ignore the tough as nails drill Sargent at your own peril.

 

[Skills]

I have an accent and never lost a girl due to the accent including white women tourist from London....

A lot of seduction is confidence and women feeling what you feel and mirroring your vibe and emotions...

When I started day game I had so much confidence in what I was doing and my accent was 100 times worse than now...

However when i went clubbing i erroneously thought i was losing women due to my accent my dumb causation correlation made me Master none verbal physical game and my texting game...

As i learned seduction and understood why my game was successful with the theory behind it. I realized it was causation correlation...

It was never the accent, i was trying to do a street day game on a middle of loud dance floor I don't care if you are the best public speaker in english, that would never work...

When I was doing sales with the Southern white older clients i was suffering cause of the accent but it was never the accent it was how i was feeling... They would shit test my accent i would get nervous and insecure they would smell weakness and blood and destroy me.... Now I just ignore or pass the shit test and take control of the call and display my knowledge and soften them with humor and close.... During calls i call them amigo, as i am speaking and tell the my stupid i am from heaven buty ex says i am from hell joke... I tell them no to call ice on me... Done

Women same is annoying same stupid lines and reactions... I am from heaven according to Mama but my ex says i am from hell... But nah seriously I am half ____ my country I don't want to mention, half Italian and women claim i am black behind my zipper, i am confused why they say that...

The accent affecting anything is pure kj and o am tired of talking about the fallacy of seduction success..

Mods lets please lets enforce kj in the posts come on guys is getting out of hand...

 

[Francis]

Now I just ignore or pass the shit test and take control of the call and display my knowledge and soften them with humor and close.... During calls i call them amigo, as i am speaking and tell the my stupid i am from heaven buty ex says i am from hell joke... I tell them no to call ice on me... Done

Good shit! With my stutter too if I pass a test it's even an attraction booster vs never having got it. Displaying lack of insecurity and ability to frame control.

Girl I'm seeing just worked a Corona event that got raided by ICE and they took a few people. She said it was a packed 18+ dance nightclub and I'd never heard of it despite scouring the city venues. Just a side note for venue scouting... Latin neighborhood "restaurant" low key off the strip

Happy Cinco de Mayo everyone. Don't forget to holiday-ping your dead leads today, Latina or not.

 

[James Cruse]

bro... nobody with a FRENCH or ITALIAN accent is getting blown out because of their accent holy cope

(Non-native) Accents = REJECTION City (even Europeans)

I don't know what to tell you - guys with accents tell me themselves, I see it with my own eyes and women tell me they don't like the accents.

These aren't guys in the seduction community though, but they are all well dressed, tall guys with good jobs. There's nothing objectionable about them other than them being foreign and having a strong accent.

I think native english speaking women just find accents too much work, or just a chore to understand or perhaps lower value. I've never been told directly why they don't want guys with an accent, just they don't want it and isn't attractive to them.
Women who want to make female friends who have accents are the same - it's tough for them and they're rarely successful.

Look I know many men who won't date any women with foreign non-english accents either - same idea.

I knew a German girl here who trained herself out of her German accent. She said she did it for work, but she really did it for dating. It was quite remarkable that she'd only been here for less than 2 years and she'd almost completely eliminated her German accent to sound almost the same as an Australian. I thought she had an Australian parent, it's so close.
Australian guys (mostly) don't like German accents apparently, so she worked hard to change it. She wanted more dating options, so she understood she had to change the accent.

I will say Scandinavians (mostly) don't have these issues because their accents are so minor in comparison to other Europeans that their accent usually doesn't interfere in being understood clearly, from what I've seen.

I don't think you guys actually know ALOT of people with accents, because this is a huge issue in native english-speaking countries.
It happens at work, at higher level jobs and in many other places aswell with people with strong accents not getting hired, but it's never said directly because they want to avoid discrimination.

Most guys with non-native accents just date other women with non-native accents - even if their accents are different to each other.

I notice you keep saying "Not at all true." in response to my statements and frankly it feels dismissive/invalidating. I'm sensing some negativity and confirmation bias, maybe absolute/black-and-white thinking from you and I hope that we can move past that.

It's simply not objectively true and saying that it could be true doesn't make sense either - women objectively wear less clothes now than ever in history. They wear less than they did 10 years ago and less than 5 years ago, it's been a fairly linear progression over time.
Where you get this idea that women wear these types of clothes often - I don't know and I simply don't see the evidence of this.

 

[Skills]

We should have a poll on guys that won't fuck hot women due to accent...

Brb i know what the results would be..

Kj gallore

 

[POB]

Foreign Accents: I've said this before on here, but so many guys underestimate how much a foreign non-native to english accent in an English speaking country hurts them, even another 1st world accent. It even hurts your chances of making FRIENDS in that country, let alone dating.

I got laid everywhere speaking english with an accent...it's actually a bonus if you wear it well.

The thick accent has always been a huge obstacle for seduction and even friendship with native english speaking women, unfortunately.

Source?

Sixth Issue: These are the absolute worst ways to transition from the opener. You hate gaming because you're a male and you want to be logical (we all do lol).
None of this is seduction or even ADJACENT to actual seduction, it's just saying logical stuff that doesn't stimulate women or their emotions at all. You're only saying them because you think it's the bare minimum.

This is simply lazy beginner-intermediate talk that amounts to:
"I just don't want to put any effort into the most crucial part of the cold approach. I just want to be low effort and super logical and I'm going to tell myself it's for a "moral" and pragmatic reason, even when it's very boring and unseductive to women"

Actually this part makes a lot of sense.
Good game a lot of times is counterintuitive to logical thinking...so parroting some technique just because someone said "it works", without looking at context, can be detrimental to success.

 

[Jamster]

I have approached 2000, maybe more, women on the streets of London. I haven't been laid once.

Wow! That is surprising. It must be very frustrating for you.

It's puzzling. There are not many women that you approach and say "Hi" to and have them basically respond, "Hi! I love casual sex! Are you into it?"

Not many, for sure.

But there are some.

With ~2000 approaches I would expect you to run into more than one. Are you filtering them out, somehow?

I started cold approaching when I had no money, no style, was not tall and handsome, and -most importantly - I had no game.

I had little success with my cold approaches - but some success. And my approaches were numbered in the dozens, not thousands. So your case just puzzles the hell out of me.

I'm was quite shy so cold approaches were fucking painful for me. I couldn't stand the incel life I was living before that, so I knew I had to change what I did.

What you have been doing hasn't worked for you <understatement>. So, if you want something that works, you need to change.

The main change for me when I started cold approaching was NOT a direct result of cold approaches.

The dramatic change was that:
Suddenly I was seeing - and taking - opportunities in my social circle. Part of that was my senses were more in tune to pick up sex signals. Part of it might be that I was presenting myself more sexually. But it was like night and day. I was getting laid.

What is happening with your social circle? Does it exist? If not, why not? Maybe that is what you need to work on.

Evidently, PUA itself isn't for you. You did what everyone says, "Field test it." And you found it doesn't work for you. (2000 approaches? Two THOUSAND approaches? 2000 approaches ? ? Jeesus.)

Here's a non-PUA suggestion.

I'm not sure what social couple dance scenes there are in London, but there are some. Ceili dancing, Bachata, Salsa, Swing Dance, maybe contra dancing, English Country Dancing, probably others.

Unless you are a natural dancer, couple dancing is not, not, NOT an efficient way to pull. But your yield dancing will be considerably better than 1 in 2000 approaches.

This assumes that you could tolerate the dancing. My guess is that it might be easier than, like, making a few thousand cold approaches.

Now, you need to approach this with a little caution. The dance groups tend to be fairly small, close social circles. To become a regular dancer, you would need to put pickup on the back shelf for a while and just focus on learning to dance.

Any of these lines used in your first 3 or 4 dance evenings would lead to inexorable ostracism is the dance social circles. Even if you used them on a receptive beginning dancer, you would find yourself soon unwelcomed by the group at large.

1) "Let's get together"
2) "Let's get together for a night of pleasure"
3) "Would you like to have a drink at my place?"
4) "Are you seeing anyone / are you single?"

I am only suggesting social dancing because, as you said, PUA is not working for you. There are plenty of reasons you could give about why dance wouldn't work for you. DON'T.

Good luck

 

[HeartOfChaos]

Wow thats a lot of posts since yesterday, I'll try to get back to people when I can... A few things though:

First issue - based on what people are guessing; You're accent sounds like it's from Eastern Europe or the 'stans', which are essentially the LEAST attractive accents white men can have (for white women) in a first world western country, according to women.

Foreign Accents: I've said this before on here, but so many guys underestimate how much a foreign non-native to english accent in an English speaking country hurts them, even another 1st world accent. It even hurts your chances of making FRIENDS in that country, let alone dating.


Second problem: Body Language. This part indicates to me you're likely tense, anxious, nervous and lacking confidence and it's showing in your body language.
You really need to find a way to enjoy these place and situations and make them fun for yourself. It's certainly a challenge, but worth it long term.


Third Issue:
Logistics aren't the problem and aren't really relevant. So many guys here blame "logistics" - you can have sex with her in your car, in a private place anywhere nearby. Pick a private place nearby and that's your sex location.

You don't NEED to go back to your place (or hers) to have sex with her, it's just not necessary. You're not thinking abundantly.


Question: Did you do well in the country you're originally from? If so why or why not? Have you thought about returning there and meeting women?


Well the accent won't be an issue there, as a bonus and you look and act like the guys of that country. Why not return there?


So go back there to live.



Everyone everywhere finds women in smaller towns easier to seduce than women in major cities, this is fairly universal.


T



None of this is good seduction technique. This is all 20-30 year old out of date seduction. Have you ever actually read any seduction material in the past 10 years? Did you actually use it or test it.

Everything you've said above is time machine old and/or highly logical, boring and unseductive normie guy lines. Why would you think any of that would be seductive - to talk like an unseductive average guy?


Ask yourself, what about what you're saying and doing is seductive?

1) I can't just "go back" to live in my home country. My home country is strictly speaking UK, I've lived here since childhood
2)When I say "home" country, I rather mean the country of my birth. I am not even a citizen of it any longer ( I can reinstate it though)
3) I am actually associated with 3 countries directly: UK, country of my birth (call it X) and another country Y. I spent first 5 years of my life in X, next 5 years in Y, and since I was 10, I've lived in UK. I am a citizen of Y and UK. I have a sorta mixed white background, hence X and Y.
4) My accent is very thick, sometimes hard to understand, a weird mix of X and Y; I never picked up an English accent. I basically sound like foreigner no matter where I go. When I visit X, they immediately ask "where are you from"? When I visit Y, they also ask "where are you from"? In UK, they ask "where are you from?".... Get it? I sound like a foreigner everywhere on the planet...
5) Body language: I think it's normal. I said I don't like crowds and busy places, not that I am anxious or tense or anything... I just don't care about being there. Hanging out on shopping streets or city centres is not very fun for me generally.
6) No, I haven't read any seduction material in last 10 years
7) What am I doing that is seductive - well, that would be on the date itself it comes to such...In daygame I am just trying to screen women
8) logistics: I don't have a car. I don't even drive. I fucked women in parks before, all sorts, yes. This is fun. But it's not very optimal or convenient, especially with UK weather.
9) Yes, I tend to do better with women in my country of origin X (for example, I match with virtually every girl there on dating apps, whereas in London... it's very slim pickings). Countries X and Y are very different, but in both places people tend to communicate in a more direct brusque fashion, and men tend to be more straightforward with women about asking them out, which is what I prefer.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

the 'method' isn't really that relevant, tbh (within reason. You can't be completely insane and uncalibrated to the point you even scare off the girls who would swipe right on you if it was tinder lol)

But that's why there's so many 'experts' who disagree with each other in every tiny nuance of game.

Not just direct vs indirect (where each side will die on their hill) but even down to much more minute details about how one should and shouldn't 'run game'. You can get amazing results with direct, or indirect, being serious and stoic, or being goofy and humorous. The list is endless. They all work as good as each other over a large enough sample

Cold approach is essentially a game of finding the girls who are into you (when infields in experts approach a girl who clearly isn't interested, it never ever ends in a lay)

The better your 'fundamentals' (how good your fashion is, how in shape you are, how handsome you are, how tall etc) the more girls you will find who are open to being gamed by you

And from that point, where you've opened a girl who is clearly receptive/interested/attracted, you really don't need to do anything amazing tbh. Just chat, show some intent, and it will all tend to take care of itself in my experience. But if you've already got 50+ lays, i'd say you are already pretty proficient at banging girls who are into you, and that's all anyone can ask for.

The problem is, why are so few girls interested nowdays, specifically here in London?

1) Because I am noticeably older and simply not as good looking as I was say 10-15 years ago, when I had the most success? I clearly get checked out much, much less nowdays by young women compared to before. On the contrary, I get checked out much more by washed up 45 year olds who I don't want or care about.
2) Because social media and dating apps is providing women with way too many options?
3) Change of demographics, women I did well with (say south Europeans and eastern europeans) have moved after Brexit?
4) All of the above? Something else? London becoming more competitive and fast paced than ever?

 

[HeartOfChaos]

Today I had an afternoon off. Drank beer by the river and then went to the centre to do more approaches. It was surprisingly productive. Will write in more detail later...

 

[James Cruse]

I got laid everywhere speaking english with an accent...it's actually a bonus if you wear it well.

Are you saying you think your home country (where your accent is native) or other countries that speak your accent natively - that you get BETTER or equal results in other 1st world countries that don't have your accent natively?

i don't believe that. What is your accent? You should share it here so we can all understand.

Source?

Everyone I've ever met with an accent in any native English speaking country that I've ever heard of.

I don't believe you (or anyone else) is getting the same results as the place you have a native (or near native) accent, because that's never been the case for any male (or even female) I've ever met in my life. I've never heard anyone even insist they get the same results until coming to this board.

For example, an American, Brit or Irish person coming to Australia or New Zealand wouldn't suffer from their accent. A Scottish person does though - because it's so hard to understand for us (and I suspect would do if that Scottish person went to America).
That's been the case for a long time and I even know a recent case of a guy in the seduction community that I've met several times, good looking scottish guy that has alot of issues with women not understanding him or creating too much misunderstandings in everything he says.

This gets worse with the further the accent goes - french, italian, german, latin american, etc. from what I see with those guys, with what women tell me and respond to. I know guys with these accents and I've seen women just say, "No, too hard" and it's done, especially when they meet them and couldn't hear their accent.

I also know many professional agency headhunters/recruiters and companies they hire for, simply won't accept non-native english speaking candidates for even minor customer facing roles, it creates too much difficulty with customers, or enough to not hire them.
So these recruiters simply don't offer them non-native english speaking candidates anymore because they rarely succeed.

Native English Learning Another Language
I think there's an issue even when native english speakers learn another language with a heavy accent - same thing. I know I got caned constantly speaking french to french women - because they said my accent sounded almost child-like when speaking (because I barely intermediate) but it's the same for english-speaking guys speaking other languages aswell.

I think it just sounded lower value or not as smart to them - and I could see that reaction from women when I spoke it myself, which guys had been telling me about for years before that point. But I didn't think it would happen to me.

4) My accent is very thick, sometimes hard to understand, a weird mix of X and Y; I never picked up an English accent. I basically sound like foreigner no matter where I go. When I visit X, they immediately ask "where are you from"? When I visit Y, they also ask "where are you from"? In UK, they ask "where are you from?".... Get it? I sound like a foreigner everywhere on the planet...

Ok, so a thick accent non-native will affect you with women, at least. You can tell us what you're accent is - it might help.

I also noticed you said you did well with Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans - so you did well with the only white women with strong non-Native English accents who would likely not notice/care/overlook your strong accent.
This is similar to guys I know with accents - do much better with other women with strong accents.

I'm guessing you're accent is Eastern European myself.

5) Body language: I think it's normal. I said I don't like crowds and busy places, not that I am anxious or tense or anything... I just don't care about being there. Hanging out on shopping streets or city centres is not very fun for me generally.

It might be a surprise to you - but people not liking being in crowds or not having fun in places, usually reflects in their body language very clearly and negatively, especially to women.
When someone says they "don't like crowds or busy places" - that usually indicates it makes them at least abit anxious or abit tense, which is reflected in their body language.

6) No, I haven't read any seduction material in last 10 years

Ok, so you're also not using any seduction material or anything you've read about seduction either? I think we're getting somewhere as to why your approaches aren't working.

7) What am I doing that is seductive - well, that would be on the date itself it comes to such...In daygame I am just trying to screen women

This is just a diversion - you're not "screening" anyone properly. where did you get the idea to simply "screen" women as a seduction method for daygame?
Screening game was meant for nightclubs when you have a tonne of options in a small amount of time, even then it's still not a good method for seduction or results (in my opinion).

It's not working at all - you're screening out alot of women that are interested by NOT actually seducing them in any meaningful way.
"Screening game" shouldn't be used at all, and it certainly shouldn't be used in daygame. I actually do daygame and I couldn't think of a worse method than 'screening game', which essentially amounts to 'low effort logical spam game'. You're intentionally making it harder on yourself.

You waiting for the date to do the seduction - makes no sense. The seduction begins when she sees you, then you approach.

Women aren't going to go on dates with you if you don't seduce them first, this is an obvious water is wet situation.

8) logistics: I don't have a car. I don't even drive. I fucked women in parks before, all sorts, yes. This is fun. But it's not very optimal or convenient, especially with UK weather.

I didn't say it was optimal or convenient for your comfort - it is optimal for sleeping with women and establishing a sexual relationship.
It doesn't have to be a park - it can be anywhere closeby that has some privacy.
The options are endless and women are more likely to sleep with you somewhere nearby in public than go back to your place 10 mins away.
Men are the ones who want to go to have sex with her in a house, not the woman.

9) Yes, I tend to do better with women in my country of origin X (for example, I match with virtually every girl there on dating apps, whereas in London... it's very slim pickings). Countries X and Y are very different, but in both places people tend to communicate in a more direct brusque fashion, and men tend to be more straightforward with women about asking them out, which is what I prefer.

We would ALL prefer that women be direct and to the point, but seduction wouldn't exist if they were.
This is a pie in the sky fantasy to want or expect this in a western country, far too many men here spend time dwelling on it.

I think you might resent the fact that you actually need to be seductive rather than direct and logical. I've seen this with guys from certain countries who come to western countries and are angry that they can't be super boring logical and direct and have women throw themselves at him.

That attitude isn't doing you any favours and is certainly ruining your approaches with women now.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

Are you saying you think your home country (where your accent is native) or other countries that speak your accent natively - that you get BETTER or equal results in other 1st world countries that don't have your accent natively?

i don't believe that. What is your accent? You should share it here so we can all understand.


Everyone I've ever met with an accent in any native English speaking country that I've ever heard of.

I don't believe you (or anyone else) is getting the same results as the place you have a native (or near native) accent, because that's never been the case for any male (or even female) I've ever met in my life. I've never heard anyone even insist they get the same results until coming to this board.

For example, an American, Brit or Irish person coming to Australia or New Zealand wouldn't suffer from their accent. A Scottish person does though - because it's so hard to understand for us (and I suspect would do if that Scottish person went to America).
That's been the case for a long time and I even know a recent case of a guy in the seduction community that I've met several times, good looking scottish guy that has alot of issues with women not understanding him or creating too much misunderstandings in everything he says.

This gets worse with the further the accent goes - french, italian, german, latin american, etc. from what I see with those guys, with what women tell me and respond to. I know guys with these accents and I've seen women just say, "No, too hard" and it's done, especially when they meet them and couldn't hear their accent.

I also know many professional agency headhunters/recruiters and companies they hire for, simply won't accept non-native english speaking candidates for even minor customer facing roles, it creates too much difficulty with customers, or enough to not hire them.
So these recruiters simply don't offer them non-native english speaking candidates anymore because they rarely succeed.

Native English Learning Another Language
I think there's an issue even when native english speakers learn another language with a heavy accent - same thing. I know I got caned constantly speaking french to french women - because they said my accent sounded almost child-like when speaking (because I barely intermediate) but it's the same for english-speaking guys speaking other languages aswell.

I think it just sounded lower value or not as smart to them - and I could see that reaction from women when I spoke it myself, which guys had been telling me about for years before that point. But I didn't think it would happen to me.




Ok, so a thick accent non-native will affect you with women, at least. You can tell us what you're accent is - it might help.

I also noticed you said you did well with Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans - so you did well with the only white women with strong non-Native English accents who would likely not notice/care/overlook your strong accent.
This is similar to guys I know with accents - do much better with other women with strong accents.

I'm guessing you're accent is Eastern European myself.


It might be a surprise to you - but people not liking being in crowds or not having fun in places, usually reflects in their body language very clearly and negatively, especially to women.
When someone says they "don't like crowds or busy places" - that usually indicates it makes them at least abit anxious or abit tense, which is reflected in their body language.


Ok, so you're also not using any seduction material or anything you've read about seduction either? I think we're getting somewhere as to why your approaches aren't working.



This is just a diversion - you're not "screening" anyone properly. where did you get the idea to simply "screen" women as a seduction method for daygame?
Screening game was meant for nightclubs when you have a tonne of options in a small amount of time, even then it's still not a good method for seduction or results (in my opinion).

It's not working at all - you're screening out alot of women that are interested by NOT actually seducing them in any meaningful way.
"Screening game" shouldn't be used at all, and it certainly shouldn't be used in daygame. I actually do daygame and I couldn't think of a worse method than 'screening game', which essentially amounts to 'low effort logical spam game'. You're intentionally making it harder on yourself.

You waiting for the date to do the seduction - makes no sense. The seduction begins when she sees you, then you approach.

Women aren't going to go on dates with you if you don't seduce them first, this is an obvious water is wet situation.



I didn't say it was optimal or convenient for your comfort - it is optimal for sleeping with women and establishing a sexual relationship.
It doesn't have to be a park - it can be anywhere closeby that has some privacy.
The options are endless and women are more likely to sleep with you somewhere nearby in public than go back to your place 10 mins away.
Men are the ones who want to go to have sex with her in a house, not the woman.



We would ALL prefer that women be direct and to the point, but seduction wouldn't exist if they were.
This is a pie in the sky fantasy to want or expect this in a western country, far too many men here spend time dwelling on it.

I think you might resent the fact that you actually need to be seductive rather than direct and logical. I've seen this with guys from certain countries who come to western countries and are angry that they can't be super boring logical and direct and have women throw themselves at him.

That attitude isn't doing you any favours and is certainly ruining your approaches with women now.

I’d rather not say here on the forum what countries I’m associated with, to be blunt.

I fucked quite a few English women, both from day game, a couple from clubs in a middle sized UK city, and quite a lot from dating apps.

I’ve lived here since childhood. Quite a few English girls have thrown themselves at me over the years, since my teenage years. Clearly they didn’t give a shit about my accent, on the contrary, it made them intrigued.

However, I certainly agree and conceded with quite a lot of other women, both local and foreign, my accent hinders things , and makes a bad impression sometimes when I approach them. Sometimes it’s obvious from their body language when they do a double take the second I open my mouth and a strange accent comes out.

So it’s a double edged sword.

Maybe this is a moot point. I don’t really care about English women. Some of them are nice and very attractive , but overall I’m not a fan of them, their behaviour, their narrow mindedness, their mannerisms. I prefer other European (or American ) women.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

To add: you have to remember this is London we are talking about. Majority of people you see aren’t English. Lol. They come from all over the world.

Granted, I’m from countries that aren’t exactly represented in a positive light here in UK in terms of political / media image , nor percentage wise in terms of UK demographic (say, there are endless number of Indians here, versus a pretty damn limited number of people of my own background, for example). So my background is a bit unique in that sense.

This is just a diversion - you're not "screening" anyone properly. where did you get the idea to simply "screen" women as a seduction method for daygame?
Screening game was meant for nightclubs when you have a tonne of options in a small amount of time, even then it's still not a good method for seduction or results (in my opinion).

It's not working at all - you're screening out alot of women that are interested by NOT actually seducing them in any meaningful way.

Look man... The way I start conversations "Hey, are you single", for instance - are just that - conversation starters. This allows me to see their receptivity and then I can branch out to whatever... I dont expect them to come out on a date or jump on me right there and then... It really is a mechanism to see how they respond straight away.

One of the earlier times I did this back in 2019 ish I think... I approached a woman and said "Hey, would you like a drink at my place?".... She engaged in a conversation, we exchanged numbers (she even gave a bit of token resistance).... Then I came to her place to fuck two weeks later. She lived outside of London...She picked me up in her car from the station and drove to her place...Simple as that.

She turned out to be STEM university professor, originally Eastern European......And because she lived outside of London, busy career etc, she did not have that many options compared to a woman in central London...And she liked directness like women from EE do...

She actually asked me after we fucked about my approach "Is the way you talked...is it some sort of filtering mechanism for you?" She actually said that, filtering...She understood...

Some other girls also asked me this, is my way of starting conversations a filter of some kind...And these women who asked were from different countries - local English girls, Brazilian women, etc...

 

[famineofcrows]

if you've banged 50+ girls from cold approach, i'd say your 'game' is already very effective and there's nothing more that you could learn that is gonna change them results much. The same girls would very likely reject you (the girls who simply aren't into you)

Also, in terms of 'running game', you already are. There's so many different schools of thought on how to 'run a seduction' that i'd bet you are already doing one of the 'models' (maybe an RSD type style for example) very closely. One doesn't need to run Mysterymethod or speed seduction patterns or whatever to be considered 'using seduction', as we see in infields. Also, I can't think of any 'new' books that have been written in the last few years. They say human nature doesn't change anyway

 

[HeartOfChaos]

if you've banged 50+ girls from cold approach, i'd say your 'game' is already very effective and there's nothing more that you could learn that is gonna change them results much. The same girls would very likely reject you (the girls who simply aren't into you)

Also, in terms of 'running game', you already are. There's so many different schools of thought on how to 'run a seduction' that i'd bet you are already doing one of the 'models' (maybe an RSD type style for example) very closely. One doesn't need to run Mysterymethod or speed seduction patterns or whatever to be considered 'using seduction', as we see in infields. Also, I can't think of any 'new' books that have been written in the last few years. They say human nature doesn't change anyway

Out of interest what RSD type model do you think I could be running (unknowingly)?

The issue is I said earlier, my results have dipped so much over the recent years compared to 2015 ish era. And I always struggled to get women who are on my looks level from random approach in daytime here in London. I’m basically getting women consistently way below my looks.

Out of London (cities like Bristol) I could get attractive women much easier. In my native country, I get attractive women much easier. But in my native country average young women is typically way more attractive than in UK.

Again, I guess it’s simply the competitive London dating market that is basically causing me to lose out to other men? After all, cold approach is the hardest way to do things.