I approached over 2000 women in 9 months. I haven't got laid once.

[James Cruse]

Granted, I’m from countries that aren’t exactly represented in a positive light here in UK in terms of political / media image , nor percentage wise in terms of UK demographic (say, there are endless number of Indians here, versus a pretty damn limited number of people of my own background, for example). So my background is a bit unique in that sense.

Ok so when native english speakers know you're background - it means lower value or therabouts.
Your background being "unique" isn't helpful to you in seduction.

Look man... The way I start conversations "Hey, are you single", for instance - are just that - conversation starters. This allows me to see their receptivity and then I can branch out to whatever... I dont expect them to come out on a date or jump on me right there and then... It really is a mechanism to see how they respond straight away.

You're really dodging this and I see why people are reluctant to help you now - that is NOT seduction. It's nothing fluff that isn't stimulating to women.
The things you said you said and did above are the same - nothing fluff that's boring normal and logical to women. What are you doing to stimulate them? Not much or nothing, apparently, which perfectly explains your lack of results.

One of the earlier times I did this back in 2019 ish I think... I approached a woman and said "Hey, would you like a drink at my place?".... She engaged in a conversation, we exchanged numbers (she even gave a bit of token resistance).... Then I came to her place to fuck two weeks later. She lived outside of London...She picked me up in her car from the station and drove to her place...Simple as that.

She turned out to be STEM university professor, originally Eastern European......And because she lived outside of London, busy career etc, she did not have that many options compared to a woman in central London...And she liked directness like women from EE do...

She actually asked me after we fucked about my approach "Is the way you talked...is it some sort of filtering mechanism for you?" She actually said that, filtering...She understood...

Some other girls also asked me this, is my way of starting conversations a filter of some kind...And these women who asked were from different countries - local English girls, Brazilian women, etc...

So a few women in the past had sex with you without you doing anything seductive and you expect this for the rest of your life? That's not how it works mate, you're revealing to yourself why your results have been so poor.

Filtering Method = Zero Seduction/Lazy Logical Attempt at seduction

Again, filtering is for nightclubs to best choose a woman who is most likely to be seduced - you still have to actually do the seduction immediately following the filtering process.

You still haven't told us where you learned this filtering method and who recommended you use it for daygame.

Nobody I've ever heard or read has ever recommended filtering game for the daytime, so I'm sure you'll realise on your own that you pulled this method out of some half-baked, half read seduction method somewhere more than 15 years ago and you can't remember where or why you continue to use it, despite it producing horrid results.

You keep defending your own seduction method as being useful and successful and like it's not the main problem - when this whole thread is about your abysmal seduction results, it really doesn't make sense.

It's not London women, it's not the large city and it's not women being wrong and it's not logistics.

Your accent being lower value doesn't help, but your complete lack of actual seduction does cause a tonne of rejections, which is obvious.

 

[Skills]

I will put the accent convo to rest, indian pe (has over 200 lays or something like that), indian with horrible accent (indian accent, in my opinion the worst i seen makes me sound like tonny robbins in comparison)

Anyways, i am out of the convo... (i don't want guys with accent lurking) things you will not get laid cause of accent, ridiculous....

to be clear if you have an accent and you suck at fundamentals, game, etc... you will not get laid but that is just common sense...

if the girls can no understand what you are saying at all (then of course you will have a harder time, no the case of the op)

 

[gameboy]

Well a sexy accent like Italian or Latin American can be a plus, while a Russian accent in the West might be perceived negatively. Coupled with 0 game and apparently 0 interest to learn, I can see why this doesnt work. Or maybe it worked for OP when he was younger, but not any more.

In my 20s, I would open girls in clubs with "hey, who are you?" and got lays and LTRs. These days, it takes a bit more effort... accent or no

 

[Francis]

@James Cruse how would you do a sidewalk stop when she is heading towards you fast?

 

[famineofcrows]

Out of interest what RSD type model do you think I could be running (unknowingly)?

I'd have to see you in an interaction, but you're probably running the same game as Coach Kyle or The general RSD model as they don't tend to really use any weird 'tech' in that if you show their infield too a regular guy whose never heard of game, he'll be like 'what are you showing me? He's not doing anything special that any guy doesn't do? Why is this considered 'seduction'??'' (questions, tell stories, make assumptions, show intent etc), whereas if you showed them a Ross Jefferies infield or something, he'd realise he was watching something unusual and maybe say 'why does this guy try to sound like a mind reader or a therapist' or something.


You should try using speed seduction patterns instead or NLP or whatever. Give it a go to see if there's anything out there than can improve your results. I can probably send you any book you need if you can't find it. But don't expect girls who aren't into you to suddenly have attraction lol. Game is about having a very high hit rate in terms of banging attracted girls. For all I know you bang every girl who wants you, and thus have amazing game lol. If you watch infields of pros, nobody can bang girls who clearly aren't remotely attracted to them/interested on the approach, even when they try whatever method they've read about (be it push-pull and teasing, or speed seduction patterns or mysterymethod etc) to turn it around

In terms of 'seduction', it's like, if you asked certain PUA's what their 'seduction' was (the PUA's who hate on, for example, certain technical game ideas) they might say it was in their humour and their relaxed body language and inner confidence etc. I'm assuming you could claim similar. One doesn't need to 'neg' or use embedded commands for example to be able to say they 'ran game'. And doing so wouldn't mean you would be sleeping with the girls who are rejecting you at the moment. If coachKyle or UMP or whoever only posted their rejections, other PUA's would say 'of course! He didn't use any actual game'. And if you happened to have infield of all of your 50+ lays, you could probably impress people so much you could be a paid 'coach' yourself lol

 

[Francis]

If you watch infields of pros, nobody can bang girls who clearly aren't remotely attracted to them/interested on the approach, even when they try whatever method they've read about (be it push-pull and teasing, or speed seduction patterns or mysterymethod etc) to turn it around

I thought the idea was to not have to turn it around: by opening the group, indirectly DHV'ing via obstacles, negging to telegraph disinterest, and only after IOI's start showing interest.

And THEN merge sets with the real target's group and do it again.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

On a separate note, I seriously invite guys who are in London or near London to come out and meet me. You’ll see I’m totally normal (or maybe abnormal lol). It would be interesting to hear someone’s else’s take on my accent at least.

I wish Cobi was still around. I remember back in sed fast days he even experimented with very direct sexual propositions in London I think…

Skills, do you have any idea what happened to him ?

Your background being "unique" isn't helpful to you in seduction.



You're really dodging this and I see why people are reluctant to help you now - that is NOT seduction. It's nothing fluff that isn't stimulating to women.
The things you said you said and did above are the same - nothing fluff that's boring normal and logical to women. What are you doing to stimulate them? Not much or nothing, apparently, which perfectly explains your lack of results.



So a few women in the past had sex with you without you doing anything seductive and you expect this for the rest of your life? That's not how it works mate, you're revealing to yourself why your results have been so poor.

Filtering Method = Zero Seduction/Lazy Logical Attempt at seduction

Again, filtering is for nightclubs to best choose a woman who is most likely to be seduced - you still have to actually do the seduction.

You still haven't told us where you learned this filtering method and who recommended you use it for daygame.

Nobody I've ever heard or read has ever recommended filtering game for the daytime, so I'm sure you'll realise on your own that you pulled this method out of some half-baked, half read seduction method somewhere more than 15 years ago and you can't remember where or why you continue to use it, despite it producing horrid results.

You keep defending your own seduction method as being useful and successful and like it's not the main problem - when this whole thread is about your abysmal seduction results, it really doesn't make sense.

It's not London women, it's not the large city and it's not women being wrong and it's not logistics.

Your accent being lower value doesn't help, but your complete lack of actual seduction does cause a tonne of rejections, which is obvious.

What makes you think I haven't done anything seductive?

I haven’t pulled out any method from any manual…. I read some things, but really I made my own way, influenced by some posters on pua zone like Cobi - doing pretty “minimal” game in some sense. I already told you, I don't really read forums (been off them for years) or any seduction "manuals".

In fact when I first started approaching women in 2009 I did it without having a clue what PUA is… I haven’t even heard of that term back then. I just started talking to random women because I was horny and wanted to meet them… that’s it… my approaches were indirect back then to start off…

Nobody I've ever heard or read has ever recommended filtering game for the daytime, so I'm sure you'll realise on your own that you pulled this method out of some half-baked, half read seduction method somewhere more than 15 years ago and you can't remember where or why you continue to use it, despite it producing horrid results.

Have you even read what I wrote previously? I wrote multiple times, I did, and I do, various approaches.

All game should be "filtering" in the first place apriori in my view, otherwise you end up wasting massive amount of time on women who arent even remotely interested to begin with.

Your point about accent and value - not really, depends on how they view it. Some like it, some don't. Anyway, as I said, I dont care about native english speakers, so this is irrelevant. And as I said, I banged quite a lot of English women.

So a few women in the past had sex with you without you doing anything seductive and you expect this for the rest of your life? That's not how it works mate, you're revealing to yourself why your results have been so poor.

It seems that you refuse to understand the simple premise that, all it is is just a conversation starter. That's it. NOTHING MORE. The example I gave is just to show that it can be super straightforward and simple. Doesnt mean I expect it to be like this everytime, and doesn't mean the rest of conversation is always boring or logical, does it? You do realise it takes 2 people to have a conversation, and both people need to contribute to it, and it can be steered into all sorts of directions?

For fuck's sake, do I really need to explain everything here like to a 5 year old? Use some common sense, man! Fucking hell, some posters on here...

By the way: please tell me if you will, what is so astoundingly, exceptionally seductive that you do or say in under 2 mins when she is walking past quickly on a busy street full of people, to catch a bus after a long day at work, let's say?

You've seen Paul Janka's videos, I assume. He operated in a huge city with 2 min number closes. Has he done really anything particularly seductive there in his videos?

I strongly urge you to stop making stupid, excuse me, assumptions about me, my background, whether I am tense or not in crowded environment, and so on, please.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

I'd have to see you in an interaction, but you're probably running the same game as Coach Kyle or The general RSD model as they don't tend to really use any weird 'tech' in that if you show their infield too a regular guy whose never heard of game, he'll be like 'what are you showing me? He's not doing anything special that any guy doesn't do? Why is this considered 'seduction'??'' (questions, tell stories, make assumptions, show intent etc)

I never understood why stuff like "questions, tell stories, make assumptions, show intent" is so emphasised on pua forums. Indeed, this is normal in any real interaction, one doesnt need to study pua methods to do this, it comes natural to anyone remotely normal, this is what i do all the time.... indeed, this is nothing special...

 

[Skills]

Cobi is rip disappeared...

 

[James Cruse]

What makes you think I haven't done anything seductive?

I haven’t pulled out any method from any manual…. I read some things, but really I made my own way, influenced by some posters on pua zone like Cobi - doing pretty “minimal” game in some sense. I already told you, I don't really read forums (been off them for years) or any seduction "manuals".

I read what you wrote and none of it is at all stimulating to women.

If you were to pinpoint the things you're doing to emotionally stimulate women and then escalate or get compliance, what were you doing?

Have you written any fields reports that show exactly what you do with dialogue? If not, feel free to post as many as you like and we can all take a look.

All game should be "filtering" in the first place apriori in my view, otherwise you end up wasting massive amount of time on women who arent even remotely interested to begin with.

You're in a beginners forum, telling people how awful your seduction results are from thousands of approaches - and you're telling us exactly how all seduction SHOULD be.
It truly beggars belief.

You just wasted all that time approaching and "filtering" with barely anything to show for all that time you were trying to "save".

So many beginner guys do this - they endlessly repeat how much time they're trying to "save" by doing everything like hyper logically, with low effort and low thought and think it's somehow noble to continue doing what they're doing and failing.

I suspect you made this thread to validate it wasn't your absent non-seduction method that was hurting you and it was some external factors - but it's all about the seduction method, this is your core issue.

It doesn't sound like you want to change it and learn either, so I think it's safe to say you'll continue to get poor results.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

I read what you wrote and none of it is at all stimulating to women.

I didn't write any of the dialogue whatsoever, just a couple of sentences at the start. I actually wanted to write out some examples of dialogue and things around it, but it's such a chore that I'd rather not. To be honest, I quickly forget the exact conversations, how does anyone even remember this stuff? It's a back and forth between 2 people, stuff that men and women have been doing for thousands of years. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be, please.

Given that I fucked around 40-50 from random approach (all sorts of approaches to emphasise again, direct, indirect, and so on, some were super fast, some were over prolonged multiple dates...) and another 40-50 more from dating apps, it does show that I do have a bit of skill, no?

You're in a beginners forum, telling people how awful your seduction results are from thousands of approaches - and you're telling us exactly how all seduction SHOULD be

They prob wouldn't be so awful if I could actually have some time with them, rather than trying to catch them while they are running to work or catch a train. As I wrote multiple times before, I have much better results in cities where people actually take it easy and give you a proper chance to talk. Not least that London is full of women of nationalities and ethnicities that I am not into. I hardly even see women that I truly, truly desire nowdays after Brexit happened....Most of the time I see baggy loose shitty jeans everywhere. Lol.

You havent answered my question, by the way: please tell me exactly just what exactly what "seduction" would be in the above example of chicks rushing somewhere on a busy street?

And what exactly is so seductive in say, Janka's 2 min video clips?

See post #4.

FR - Cold approach, recent day game

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7cYZwkbvZf6CPntjR_1V30jUWxBP6vT/view?usp=drivesdk kindly give feedback and analysis . All Pros and cons....

www.skilledseducer.com

I don't understand what is post 4?

I skimmed through, all the examples there are extremely standard boring conversations people have everyday...

Edit: listened to conversation once more. Its not a standard conversation. Its much worse. Lol. Wtf is this shit? Boring as fuck assburger conversation, why are you giving me this? What is the purpose of it?

 

[Francis]

I actually wanted to write out some examples of dialogue and things around it, but it's such a chore that I'd rather not. To be honest, I quickly forget the exact conversations, how does anyone even remember this stuff?

See post #4.

FR - Cold approach, recent day game

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7cYZwkbvZf6CPntjR_1V30jUWxBP6vT/view?usp=drivesdk kindly give feedback and analysis . All Pros and cons....

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Francis]

Edit: listened to conversation once more. Its not a standard conversation. Its much worse. Lol. Wtf is this shit? Boring as fuck assburger conversation, why are you giving me this? What is the purpose of it?

It is to show you that the transcription software works with his heavy accent. See post #5.

If you post raw transcripts, I expect you will get some informed, helpful answers.

 

[Jamster]

@HeartOfChaos

What do you want from this forum now?

What could someone say to help you? What feedback would you gratefully accept with the idea it would improve your game?

Are you just looking for some kind of "PUA no longer works" affirmation? Not happening.

Have you aged out of your environment? You say you aren't interested in "washed out 45 year olds." Well, how old are you?

I'm in my 70's and there are a few women in their 50's that are looking fine to me.

If I started cold approaching hot undergraduates in my neighborhood? I could make 2000 unsuccessful approaches, too. (Maybe. I'd guess 1 in 1200 might go for it, if my game were sharp. And DAMN - a red-headed 19 year old still catches my eye.)

Where is your social circle? Social circle game sucks royally - but compared with 2000 unsuccessful approaches, it's a fucking garden of earthly delight. You haven't mentioned anything about any human connection in your life.

What do you need from this forum?

 

[HeartOfChaos]

See post #4.

FR - Cold approach, recent day game

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7cYZwkbvZf6CPntjR_1V30jUWxBP6vT/view?usp=drivesdk kindly give feedback and analysis . All Pros and cons....

www.skilledseducer.com

What a fucking assburger conversation. Lol.

Have you aged out of your environment? You say you aren't interested in "washed out 45 year olds." Well, how old are you?

I am 39. I experimented with all major dating apps since 2016 ish. I got reasonable results in London from them till 2022 or so, but in reality results have been steadily declining since 2020 ish. Over last several years, results have been so slim that I need to do like hundreds of swipes to get a match. And I basically get no matches whatsoever with decent looking white girls under 30. And I say on my profile that I am 36.

Over last several years in London, I pretty much mainly got matches from

1) Post the wall women aged 35 or above
2) Mediocre / ugly / overweight women
3) Indians, Middle Easterners, Asians, Black women

In last few years I rarely got any matches from white girls I actually found attractive and in age group I wanted (under 30) in London area. And I tried hundreds, and hundreds of swipes. I tried various photos. I wrote different profiles , serious ones, funny ones, tongue-in cheek ones...

In person, I approached all kinds of women in London, including middle easterners, asians, black and mixed race women, women in their early 20s to early 40s. I approached all sorts over the years. Once again, the most interest I ever got was from these types (older women, mixed race women, middle easterners, slightly chubby women, asians). I always found it difficult to get any real interest here in London from a slim white decent looking girl under 30 who I actually genuinely found attractive - equally in cold approach or on a dating app. It was quite a bit easier when I was in my twenties / early 30s. Now, it's super, super hard.

In contrast: when I tried dating apps when visiting my country of birth, I matched with basically 95% of women, and they were all attractive, the kind I basically never got in London. When I approached them in person there, I got dates and interest from them.

When I lived for a while in mid size UK cities, and I did cold approach in clubs and daytime, again I got laid with the girls I could not get in London - white, cute ones. They actually were receptive to me. I would come up, say hello, and they actually were genuinely interested in interacting with me, they wanted to proceed and meet for a date. In London, similar kind of girls simply dismiss me most of the time with "thanks, I have a boyfriend". Or give me a number but never respond. Or make arranging a date like pulling teeth...Or put up all sorts of resistance.

So to James Cruse here - these women simply don't give me a real chance to do any actual "seduction".

I am not asking for a 20 year super model. I am asking for a decent looking, reasonably youthful looking, slim white girl, not some asian or 40 year old...

and he got extremely confused as to why I was posting it. like he literally could not connect these two things.

I wondered if you wanted me to critique that conversation as an exercise in response to Cruse. I understood it was just a stupid link, it was just a shitty example of a transcript that made me wonder in context (if you and Cruse assumed thats what my conversations are like and wanted me to improvise and showcase how I'd adapt it or something). So nah, I connected everything, just was over thought it at 4 in the morning...

There is literally nothing here for guys to critique. You are putting a LOT of effort into posting here, but are asking guys for help improving your rapping skills by doing everything except posting your raps.

Instead of posting raps, I publicly offered to meet anyone from here in London area. No one offered yet.

 

[Francis]

Yeah that Indian guy needs help, but he put himself on the line posting his shit for help - literally the whole purpose of this forum. Regardless of the skill level, he has my respect for showing us the real real. Meanwhile you are not willing to share actual raw information to work with, so everything gets put through your descriptions of your interactions.

There is literally nothing here for guys to critique. You are putting a LOT of effort into posting here, but are asking guys for help improving your rapping skills by doing everything except posting your raps.

 

[Francis]

I think this is a clue about what OP is dealing with actually...

I quoted this:

I actually wanted to write out some examples of dialogue and things around it, but it's such a chore that I'd rather not. To be honest, I quickly forget the exact conversations, how does anyone even remember this stuff?

and then linked a thread with audio and a generated transcript....


and he got extremely confused as to why I was posting it. like he literally could not connect these two things.

It's like this:

OP: I want to share my guitar playing with the world but how does someone even do that?
Francis: posts a link to a recording studio
OP: WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME?


This leads me to believe OP is having trouble reading meanings, subtext, etc. in interactions. The only way we can know for sure is by.... drumroll... reading the conversations.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

I think this is a clue about what OP is dealing with actually...

I quoted this:


and then linked a thread with audio and a generated transcript....


and he got extremely confused as to why I was posting it. like he literally could not connect these two things.

It's like this:

OP: I want to share my guitar playing with the world but how does someone even do that?
Francis: posts a link to a recording studio
OP: WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME?


This leads me to believe OP is having trouble reading meanings, subtext, etc. in interactions. The only way we can know for sure is by.... drumroll... reading the conversations.

It can happen when someone doesn't fully have the ability to see what is actually going on in the interactions and what isn't.

In the past, I used to think women didn't want me but later i realised I was not even registering a good number of women who did due to my own insecurities.

 

[Francis]

if you and Cruse assumed thats what my conversations are like and wanted me to improvise and showcase how I'd adapt it or something). So nah, I connected everything, just was over thought it at 4 in the morning...

ohhh no the more you post the more I see you are more skilled than the initial impression from your first thread a while back, etc. this makes it even more confusing as time goes without something to analyze. and it kind of shows that a thread does NOT help get a real picture of you that anyone here can do anything with. it just goes in circles with NO help to you for improving - when most guys posting here actually want to see you turn it around!

Instead of posting raps, I publicly offered to meet anyone from here in London area. No one offered yet.

Well DWW is not even active lately. I think this only leaves @topcat and I highly doubt he cares.

You're on a forum asking for help. Unless you want to just post in the wingman finder thread, I don't think this is going to get you anything to improve on and turn your results around without the dialogue.

Now it becomes:

OP: Please help me improve my poetry
Forum: OK let's hear it.
OP: [Describes the poetry]
Forum: No, we need to read the poetry

 

[James Cruse]

Given that I fucked around 40-50 from random approach (all sorts of approaches to emphasise again, direct, indirect, and so on, some were super fast, some were over prolonged multiple dates...) and another 40-50 more from dating apps, it does show that I do have a bit of skill, no?

Not really, I did more than that number before I left high school (so did one of my friends) and we didn't know anything about seduction.

If you have "some skill" - why is there no skill shown in anything you've written that you've done so far?

Again, as other posters have said - share several Field Reports or audios or transcribed approach audios and we can actually see what you're doing and why it's not working or it is.

They prob wouldn't be so awful if I could actually have some time with them, rather than trying to catch them while they are running to work or catch a train

I do daygame and everyone else that does daygame is approaching almost all women in the exact same circumstances as what you described - why do you think it's such different results for you than us?

The answer is: We're doing seduction and you're doing logic normie neo-direct approaches that are ineffective in stimulating women in any meaningful way.

As I wrote multiple times before, I have much better results in cities where people actually take it easy and give you a proper chance to talk

Nobody has this in daygame - as above, we're all approaching women running or on their way somewhere else, this isn't exclusive to you or people in London.

You really want to blame all other factors outside the obvious - your seduction and seduction skills.

You havent answered my question, by the way: please tell me exactly just what exactly what "seduction" would be in the above example of chicks rushing somewhere on a busy street?

I have a daygame LR on here - it's a good example of this. She was walking quickly with over-ear headphones on, singing to herself, rushing madly, in the busiest part of my large city during the day.

And what exactly is so seductive in say, Janka's 2 min video clips?

Nothing is seductive about Paul Janka and his awful results reflect it and yours are far worse.

So you want to be like Paul Janka and do nothing seductive, be ultra logical and spam approach and hope for the best?

So many men have been enticed by the promises Paul Janka's (non) seduction method for daygame and wonder why they failed.

He scammed alot of people out of money to essentially tell them to be logical, talk for as little as possible and get her number and do no seduction and hope for the best (and get terrible results).

Why anyone still mentions Janka would baffle me - if a few guys I've met doing day game in real life didn't tell me why they followed Janka's method:
It's low energy/low thought way to avoid doing seduction (or learning seduction) and avoid having to experience much (upfront) rejection.
If girls don't like you, you don't usually find out until they're not answering your texts/calls rather than in front of you, in person and live.

Janka's method is a sneaky way to avoid doing anything hard and avoid upfront rejection, which is why it's persisted for 25 years despite it never working well. Guys love this type of low effort/low rejection method, it's as enticing (but as toxic) as communism is to university students.

DoWhatWorks was following a similar method to Janka (mostly) and he said his success rate in day game was about 2-3% (or less), so he was another victim of that terrible method.

Guys REALLY want to be able to go out and spam ultra logical approaches, collect many numbers and just have dates lined up and get great results and are very angry and confused when they can't do that, then try to blame every other external factor, which we can see from this thread.

Janka's daygame approach is just one of many ideas in the seduction community (like communism) that won't die because it keeps being so enticing and juicy as an idea, even fails consistently.

It's the same as other ideas on here recently - like guys here thinking words alone can get women sexually aroused and it's a reliable way to do so. That idea just won't die because ultra logical men really want it to be true, no matter how much evidence they see it isn't.