Is it wrong that non-player men sometimes unknowingly marry high count women?

[bgwh]

@AbWongX the problem with the entire position you're taking here is that you are presuming to make the choice for a woman of whether she should have this kind of experience or not in the first place. It's not up to you, it's up to her.



Let's have a closer look at the principle behind this.

Let's say there's a girl who loves to fly, she's been flying as an airline passenger, and she's been flying in a little cessna and having some fun. Now let's say I'm an aerobatic pilot and I invite her to come fly with me. I take her up and give her a wild ride, it takes her breath away and she loves every minute. I move away or whatever and she goes back to flying her cessna, but she can't enjoy it any more. She wants that wild ride again, it's all she can think about.

Too bad?

She has two choices here. She can reset her expectations and just say 'ok that was intense and fun, but I have to think about my life and all I have here is a Cessna, so let's make the most of it'. Or she can go and look for another aerobatic pilot, if she doesn't want to lower her standards.

It's her choice to have the experience in the first place, and it's her choice what she does later on with the options she has left. But you can't choose for her. We all want to experience everything that life has to offer, we all want to feel the extraordinary, even if it's only for a short time. It's what makes the rest of life worthwhile, gives us our most treasured memories, and elevates our spirit. And to try to take that opportunity away from a girl 'for her own good' is a horrible idea. It's one of the most insidious aspects of red pill victim mentality, which has unfortunately seeped into a lot of men's mental models these days.



You're treating her like she has no choice or agency, she's just this object that's used in different ways with some 'value' that degrades accordingly. A woman is a soul just like you with ambitions and the desire to live life to the fullest.

Also, many, many women have extraordinary sexual and dating experiences with 'alphas' and extraordinary guys, before settling for a reliable, less exciting 'beta'. Often the 'beta' never knows about it, because she knows it will hurt his ego. She is fine with the situation, but he's not, so she simply never tells him, and he's blissfully unaware. These relationships work, and they happen all the time.

And that's really the crux of things - this is not about a woman's satisfaction or happiness, but a lower-quality male's egoistic satisfaction and happiness, which is (according to such logic) obtained by hamstringing a woman's ability to live the life she wants, so that she thinks he's better than he is. That's the reality of what a lot of the red pill guys are pushing - a bitter and resentful victim mentality.



That's her choice to decide. If someone gave you a million dollars, and you spent it all, and now your $35k/year job isn't fun anymore, what you do about that is entirely up to you.



What the red pill are doing here is twisting everything in such a way as to appear as if they are looking out for a woman's health when they are really looking out for their own interests.

In my opinion, the number of sexual partners a woman has does affect her ability to pair bond. However, I'm not of the opinion that every woman needs to be a virgin at marriage. How many is too many? 1-5? 5-10? That's debatable. And at the end of the day, it's her choice.

That has nothing to do whatsoever with the 'alpha widow' effect, this is a red pill sleight of hand. This is the red pill taking one concept about the total number of sexual partners and its psychological effect, and trying to combine it with a woman simply having high standards because of an extraordinary experience she had.

I wish for every woman (and every man) the most exciting and intense sexual experiences they can imagine. It's really an out of this world experience, and one of the best things that life has to offer.

If a woman or man can't get that, or can only get it rarely, that's not my problem. And frankly, I don't think women are half as worried about it, and are a lot more practical about the reality of life, than all these red pill victims on youtube.

And when women are not practical about this, it is usually a result of being fed the idea that all women have the right to have everything they want all the time with no effort or sacrifice, which is just the female version of the disfunctional egotism that drives a big part of the red pill.

I think you're having a bit of a double standard there. The beta providers should be afforded informed consent.

Does a chick have a right to go get a bunch of hot experiences, and then go settle for a guy she would have never given those experiences to? OF COURSE. If he's fine with it, that's between the two of them.

The issue is where women lie about it and hide their past. That's not informed consent. Women often make excuses like "but if he knew the truth, he wouldn't be with me". Sure, but that's not an excuse for lying.

Guys who are excluded from the casual dating market have every right to exclude those same girls back once these girls are like "ok, time to get serious". It's tit for tat. Girls excluded them for casual, they in turn have every right to exclude them for long-term stuff.

Doesn't matter if you or girls agree with that decision, the fact is that those guys have every right to have that rule or boundary. And lacking informed consent is not cool, it's tantamount to fraud. And of course girls are biased towards "boring providers shouldn't exclude me, so therefore it's ok to lie". Who doesn't want to have their cake and eat it too. Everyone does. Get the best of both worlds? Sign me up! "I want to get the best of all worlds" is still not an excuse for lying.

We all as adults have to make tradeoffs and look at pros and cons. In what other area is "But I must get the pros of all options, so it's ok to lie" a justifiable option?

 

[Bismarck]

Well, those "beta" boyfriend eventual husband provider guys wouldn’t have been able to give their post-wall wives those alpha fucks experiences back when they were hot young girls regardless.

IMO everyone is all the better for it. He gets to pass on his genes and have a wife who bosses him around and in the process “makes him the best version of himself.” In exchange she gets a provider.

 

[Will_V]

I think you're having a bit of a double standard there. The beta providers should be afforded informed consent.

Does a chick have a right to go get a bunch of hot experiences, and then go settle for a guy she would have never given those experiences to? OF COURSE. If he's fine with it, that's between the two of them.

The issue is where women lie about it and hide their past. That's not informed consent. Women often make excuses like "but if he knew the truth, he wouldn't be with me". Sure, but that's not an excuse for lying.

Guys who are excluded from the casual dating market have every right to exclude those same girls back once these girls are like "ok, time to get serious". It's tit for tat. Girls excluded them for casual, they in turn have every right to exclude them for long-term stuff.

Doesn't matter if you or girls agree with that decision, the fact is that those guys have every right to have that rule or boundary. And lacking informed consent is not cool, it's tantamount to fraud. And of course girls are biased towards "boring providers shouldn't exclude me, so therefore it's ok to lie". Who doesn't want to have their cake and eat it too. Everyone does. Get the best of both worlds? Sign me up! "I want to get the best of all worlds" is still not an excuse for lying.

We all as adults have to make tradeoffs and look at pros and cons. In what other area is "But I must get the pros of all options, so it's ok to lie" a justifiable option?

The idea that everyone is going to be an open book to be audited in the dating market is not and never will be realistic. Women bend the truth about their past, and men bend the truth in their presentation of themselves and the things they've done in their lives. There's nothing wrong that and it's perfectly natural.

When you've learned a lot about women and you know what to ask and what to look for, you get a fuzzy idea of the truth. But it will never be crystal clear. You have to live with that, and being able to thrive in uncertainty is one of the things that sets certain men apart.

Further, it's one thing to lie about something factual (like partner count) and another to 'lie' about being alpha widowed. What does that even mean? Is a girl supposed to sit there and describe what it felt like to be a part of the other man's life, so that some hapless beta can make some kind of audit on that? Even if she knew how to describe it, he wouldn't understand or know what to do about it.

When I say that women don't tell him XYZ, it's fundamentally about not telling him how he compares. And if you think providing a comparison with previous experiences is a moral necessity in dating, I don't know what to say. Besides, women have all sorts of criteria, and the beta might actually outscore on some of them (such as 'willingness to do chores' for example - who says that's not a valid criteria?).

At the end of the day, my philosophy is very simple: it's my job to be the best, to suffer the pain and whatever it takes to get there, and it's my prerogative to enjoy the results with my women. If I find I can't get where I want to go, c'est la vie, but I wish everyone the best in their own efforts, and will never sacrifice my quality of life (or the quality of life of any woman) to cater to some collectivist ideology.

Nature is not egalitarian, and its most profound expression is in sexuality, which can never truly be tamed, only either satisfied or stunted.

 

[Chase]

Split this topic from the original thread here (which was itself split off another thread). For context, @bgwh was responding to this post by @Will_V.

As bgwh is proposing an "ideal world" scenario / arguing against the morality of a group of people (i.e., "stealth sluts"?), I've split off to not derail the other topic about the nature of attraction.

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

The beta providers should be afforded informed consent.

"Should" is not how the world works buddy

 

[bgwh]

Re: This thread and responses from bismark and will-v

I was more replying to the redpill/provider-bashing nature of the original post. It's too one-sided in the favor of seducers/girls getting peak experiences, while framing any concerns on betas sides as irrelevant or even immoral or selfish. Only the desires of seducers and girls are valid. Everyone else is selfish and egoistical.

And I say this as a seducer who has no intention of ever being a provider. I'm not fond of either redpillers, nor the opposite extreme which says there's nothing there there, and beta/redpillers should just shut up about it.

 

[bgwh]

"Should" is not how the world works buddy

Please note. I was responding to someone saying girls should be able to xyz, provided via beta guys who should abc.

I'm only responding within that context. If girls should be able to x, so should guys be able to y. I think betas desire to limit provision to girls with low body counts is equivalent to girls desires to experiment and get all the sexual experiences they want. Both have a right to want things.

In societies we come up with compromises where sides compromise. Both redpillers and seducers are biased to a non-compromise in one or the other direction. If I was on a redpill forum, I would be arguing against their extreme.

 

[DarkKnight]

I agree that betas who are sometimes not even betas but blue pilled alphas need to be able to defend themselves. But such is the way of the world man, someone is going to end up scammed. It's not my sense of justice, but I got used to it.

 

[bgwh]

I agree that betas who are sometimes not even betas but blue pilled alphas need to be able to defend themselves. But such is the way of the world man, someone is going to end up scammed. It's not my sense of justice, but I got used to it.

Of course. We don't disagree you and me.

Again I was merely responding to someone presenting a one-sided "should". As in "betas should shut up and just provide girls exactly what they're asking for, no questions or complaints allowed".

 

[Bismarck]

“Betas” can seek out a girl from a good family with a Catholic conservative upbringing who never strayed. If they manage to get the status or social skills required to gain access.

 

[Will_V]

Re: This thread and responses from bismark and will-v

I was more replying to the redpill/provider-bashing nature of the original post. It's too one-sided in the favor of seducers/girls getting peak experiences, while framing any concerns on betas sides as irrelevant, only the desires of seducers and girls matter.

When it comes to sex and relationships, there is no reasonable answer except 'everyone should be able to make their own choices about who they sleep with and on what terms', and that should never be required to take into account anyone else's concerns.

The reason why I have a problem with the red pill is that the underlying sentiment is bitterness and fear, and that's poisonous to actual self development. All you have to do is listen to them for five seconds and you can hear it in their voices. You can see the helpless desperation on their faces when they start talking about 'alpha fucks and beta bucks' and all that quippy stuff. Even though some of them are intelligent men who talk about some interesting theoretical stuff, the majority of what they project onto the airwaves is destructive to a young guy trying to make his way in the world.

Does that mean they don't have anything interesting to say, or legitimate grievances about certain mechanisms of society, such as the court system, the media, or the institution of marriage? Sure they do. But mixed into it is the poisonous mentality of men who have been knocked down and decided not to get up and fight again, who instead live out a strange obsession with the proclivities of the women who have hung them out to dry, and who try to prove that everyone should be down there with them. And that's something that every man who values his own courage and reckons on his own abilities should distance himself from.

I've been in the dumps mentally as a young guy, and I've been bitter and resentful (not toward women, but at life in general) to the point where I thought it had permanently disfigured my spirit. It took me many years to rid myself of it, to painfully endure the process of self transformation, and establish an internal reality that can never be shattered. My women love me because of what I've done, not because they know exactly what it entailed, but because they get to reside in the surety and tranquility of someone who has faced their demons and won.

And right at the beginning of that process, the first choice I had to make was whether I could have the courage to say 'even if I never live to see the day, let everyone else get there if they will'. That is the foundation of masculine courage, to seek the best for everyone as he seeks the best for himself, and to face his own limitations, and whatever fate has in store for him, as gracefully as he can muster.

And right next to me in my life there are people who have chosen not to make the choices I've made, and all I can say is that I hope they find peace somehow, because it's very painful where they are, and it doesn't get easier as time goes by, though the choice never goes away.

And I say this as a seducer who has no intention of ever being a provider. I'm not fond of either redpillers, nor the opposite extreme which says there's nothing there there, and beta/redpillers should just shut up about it while we have all the fun we want, and then they provide for our fbs once we're done, no questions or discussions allowed.

I never told anyone to shut up, and I welcome discussion. Sometimes I might sound harsh but it's just the way I feel about things, and never directed at anyone personally. I like to talk about this stuff, and I hope it's clear that the only thing I've attacked is people who find a big platform on social media to broadcast destructive mental models out into the world.

 

[bgwh]

When it comes to sex and relationships, there is no reasonable answer except 'everyone should be able to make their own choices about who they sleep with and on what terms', and that should never be required to take into account anyone else's concerns.

The reason why I have a problem with the red pill is that the underlying sentiment is bitterness and fear, and that's poisonous to actual self development. All you have to do is listen to them for five seconds and you can hear it in their voices. You can see the helpless desperation on their faces when they start talking about 'alpha fucks and beta bucks' and all that quippy stuff. Even though some of them are intelligent men who talk about some interesting theoretical stuff, the majority of what they project onto the airwaves is destructive to a young guy trying to make his way in the world.

Does that mean they don't have anything interesting to say, or legitimate grievances about certain mechanisms of society, such as the court system, the media, or the institution of marriage? Sure they do. But mixed into it is the poisonous mentality of men who have been knocked down and decided not to get up and fight again, who instead live out a strange obsession with the proclivities of the women who have hung them out to dry, and who try to prove that everyone should be down there with them. And that's something that every man who values his own courage and reckons on his own abilities should distance himself from.

I've been in the dumps mentally, and I've been bitter and resentful, to the point where I thought it had permanently disfigured my spirit. It took me many years to rid myself of it, to painfully endure the process of self transformation, and establish an internal reality that can never be shattered. My women love me because of what I've done, not because they know exactly what it entailed, but because they get to reside in the surety and tranquility of someone who has faced their demons and won.

And right at the beginning of that process, the first choice I had to make was whether I could have the courage to say 'even if I never live to see the day, let everyone else get there if they will'. That is the foundation of masculine courage, to seek the best for everyone as he seeks the best for himself, and to face his own limitations, and whatever fate has in store for him, as gracefully as he can muster.

And right next to me in my life there are people who have chosen not to make the choices I've made, and all I can say is that I hope they find peace somehow, because it's very painful where they are, and it doesn't get easier as time goes by, though the choice never goes away.



I never told anyone to shut up, and I welcome discussion. Sometimes I might sound harsh but it's just the way I feel about things, and never directed at anyone personally. I like to talk about this stuff, and I hope it's clear that the only thing I've attacked is people who find a big platform on social media to broadcast destructive mental models out into the world.

Saying that someone's concerns are only due to unjustified bitterness, irrational fear or another set of flaws, is a common silencing technique.

I'm not saying you should shut up, but anytime you say anything I'm going to impune malicious intent and represent what you're saying in the worst way possible. But I'm not saying you should shut up.

Betas should be allowed to have their preferences, but if they prefer not investing 100x more for sex than her previous casual partners, I'm going to miscontrue this preference in the most uncharitable way possible. But I'm not saying they can't have preferences.

 

[Will_V]

Saying that someone's concerns are only due to unjustified bitterness, irrational fear or another set of flaws, is a common silencing technique.

I'm not saying you should shut up, but anytime you say anything I'm going to impune malicious intent and represent what you're saying in the worst way possible. But I'm not saying you should shut up.

Betas should be allowed to have their preferences, but if they prefer not investing 100x more for sex than her previous casual partners, I'm going to misconttue this preference in the most uncharitable way possible. But I'm not saying they can't have preferences.

I'm not here to change your mind. If you want to believe that all those grievances are legitimate, and that those redpill guys are good role models, go right ahead. My philosophy has always been to cast my message, and let those who want to hear it do so.

I would only reflect, as one philosophical man to another, would you really want the solution that would be required to collectively solve those grievances? And if not, why spend even a second worrying about it?

 

[bgwh]

If you want to believe that all those grievances are legitimate, and that those redpill guys are good role models, go right ahead.

Are you purposefully misrepresenting me or is it a blindspot?

How CLEAR do I have to be in order to prevent this misrepresentation.

If you want to believe that all those grievances are legitimate

Let me be clear. I don't, but I already said that. Is it purposeful misrepresentation or a blindspot?

and that those redpill guys are good role models

They're not. Redpillers are ruining the lives of young men.

Here's my ACTUAL stance:	Your misrepresentation:
Betas have a few legitimate grievances that are completely erased by the other side. Let's say for the sake of argument, that it's 1% legitimate, and 99% bullshit or fear-based or whatever...	"Any grievance ever said by any beta or redpiller is 100% the gospel"

Put in a different way

I believe both the redpill (an extreme) and the opposite extreme are promoting biased extreme views that erase nuance I'm a centrist on this topic. And just like being a centrist in politics, you're misrepresented by both sides, because they hate nuance.

Lefties will refer to you as "far right", and conservatives will refer to you as a "commie". The exact same person will be called a "commie ultra leftie" and called "far right", just because they don't want to adopt either extreme and like this thing called nuance.

 

[Will_V]

Are you purposefully misrepresenting me or is it a blindspot?

How CLEAR do I have to be in order to prevent this misrepresentation.



Let me be clear. I don't, but I already said that. Is it purposeful misrepresentation or a blindspot?



They're not. Redpillers are ruining the lives of young men.

Here's my ACTUAL stance:	Your misrepresentation:
Betas have a few legitimate grievances that are completely erased by the other side. Let's say for the sake of argument, that it's 1% legitimate, and 99% bullshit or fear-based or whatever...	"Any grievance ever said by any beta or redpiller is 100% the gospel"

Put in a different way

I believe both the redpill (an extreme) and the opposite extreme are promoting biased extreme views that erase nuance I'm a centrist on this topic. And just like being a centrist in politics, you're misrepresented by both sides, because they hate nuance.

Lefties will refer to you as "far right", and conservatives will refer to you as a "commie". The exact same person will be called a "commie ultra leftie" and called "far right", just because they don't want to adopt either extreme and like this thing called nuance.

I think we're talking past eachother a bit here. Let's reset.

It seems like your point is the following:

1. Some girls are 'alpha widowed'
2. Beta guys (at least some of them) don't want these girls because they're problematic in some way
3. Therefore these beta guys are looking for a way to detect these girls and filter them out

Is that correct?

If so, I have some questions:

1. Assuming that the term 'alpha widowed' isn't just the same as 'has high standards', what is it qualitatively?
2. How should a girl know if she is alpha widowed, and how should she communicate this to the beta on a date so that he can make an informed choice?
3. If the beta decides he's still interested, how do you propose that he moves forward in light of the fact that she's alpha widowed?
4. If there are no practical ways to answer 2), what should a beta do generally in the dating market, in your view, to find and attract the right girls (presumably, girls that are not alpha widowed)?
5. If a beta wants to reduce the incidence of alpha widowed women in the world, what would be some practical and reasonable ways to do this?

 

[AbWongX]

I think we're talking past eachother a bit here. Let's reset.

It seems like your point is the following:

1. Some girls are 'alpha widowed'
2. Beta guys (at least some of them) don't want these girls because they're problematic in some way
3. Therefore these beta guys are looking for a way to detect these girls and filter them out

Is that correct?

If so, I have some questions:

1. Assuming that the term 'alpha widowed' isn't just the same as 'has high standards', what is it qualitatively?
2. How should a girl know if she is alpha widowed, and how should she communicate this to the beta on a date so that he can make an informed choice?
3. If the beta decides he's still interested, how do you propose that he moves forward in light of the fact that she's alpha widowed?
4. If there are no practical ways to answer 2), what should a beta do generally in the dating market, in your view, to find and attract the right girls (presumably, girls that are not alpha widowed)?
5. If a beta wants to reduce the incidence of alpha widowed women in the world, what would be some practical and reasonable ways to do this?

Well, I'm not bgwh, and this is just my opinion, but here's how I'd personally attempt to tackle these questions.

1. "Alpha widowed" isn't just about having high standards; it's about having standards warped and inflated by exposure to a cock carousel of alpha men (usually tall, good-looking, white, socially skilled). These alpha widows have been spoiled by attention and experience from men who naturally possess the traits they crave - good looks, confidence, assertiveness, social dominance. They've tasted the high-SMV life, the excitement of being pursued by men who are normally out of their league. They've developed a taste for the top-shelf liquor and now find the cheap beer repulsive. These women have been pumped and dumped by the top 5% of men, leaving them with an insatiable hunger for a level of validation and excitement they'll likely never find again. It's logical to assume these women will always be comparing their current male partners to the idealized memories of alpha men who never truly belonged to them.

2. This is where I believe the female delusion can truly shine through. You expect these women to be self-aware enough to recognize their own inflated hypergamous expectations and to communicate them honestly? They're drowning in a sea of self-deception, convinced that they deserve the best men without necessarily possessing the qualities that attract and keep alpha men. They'll drop hints, sure, subtle complaints about their exes, veiled comparisons to cool men they've seen on Instagram. But they'll never admit outright that they're yearning for a man they can't have. They'll cling to the fantasy that they can find a beta who can somehow fill the void left by the alphas who discarded them.

3. I believe he shouldn't be. A beta who knowingly pursues an "alpha widowed" woman is setting himself up for a lifetime of misery. He'll be constantly compared to her past conquests, his efforts to please her will always fall short, and he'll probably end up raising another man's children. It's logical to assume that he is better off finding a woman whose mind and body have not been corrupted by any highly attractive dominant man.

4. We know that in the modern sexual marketplace, the beta male faces a challenge. He's swimming against a current of female hypergamy, fueled by a culture that glorifies female promiscuity and rewards alpha male behavior. The older a woman gets, the more baggage she accumulates, increasing the likelihood of encountering an "alpha widow" – a woman whose expectations have been warped by a string of Chad encounters. Go younger. And he can and should consider nonmainstream communities as possible options. But even within seemingly conservative communities, the pervasive influence of modern sex culture has eroded traditional values, leaving even most young Christian women with a history of multiple partners.

The harsh truth is that the well has been poisoned. Finding a virtuous woman is akin to finding a needle in a haystack. A beta male must be prepared for a long and arduous journey, fraught with disappointment and rejection. He must be realistic about his prospects and accept the possibility that he may never find the woman of his dreams. This doesn't mean he should give up, but it does mean he needs to adjust his expectations and prepare for a challenging and often disheartening reality.

Despite the bleak outlook, I believe that a beta male should never surrender to despair. He should relentlessly pursue self-improvement, honing his physique, cultivating his mind, and mastering his skills. He should learn and understand the dynamics of attraction and seduction to level the playing field. He can and should become the best version of himself.

5. I would argue that in order to truly reduce the incidence of "alpha-widowed" women, a beta male must understand that individual action is insufficient. The problem for him and all the other beta males in our modern Western society is systemic, rooted in a culture that encourages female hypergamy and glorifies casual sex. Therefore, the solution requires a radical shift in societal values, a return to a time when chastity and long-term commitment were prized above fleeting pleasure and fleeting connections.

This means advocating for policies that discourage premarital sex and promote traditional family structures. It means challenging the global feminist narrative that has demonized traditional masculinity and encouraged women to embrace their baser instincts. It means supporting legislation that restricts access to birth control, making casual sex less convenient and encouraging a more thoughtful approach to relationships and reproduction. It means promoting a culture that values marriage and family as the cornerstones of a healthy society.

In essence, I would say that a beta man must choose only one for his society: casual sex or marriage. He must recognize that the two are actually incompatible, that a society that embraces one will inevitably suffer the consequences of the other. He must fight for a world where women are encouraged to value commitment and fidelity, where marriage is seen as a sacred bond, and where the family unit is once again the bedrock of civilization. This is a long and arduous battle, but it might be a battle worth fighting, for the future of civilization hangs in the balance.

 

[Will_V]

Well, I'm not bgwh, and this is just my opinion, but here's how I'd personally attempt to tackle these questions.

It's good to have your participation, I hope I wasn't too chafing with my critique of the red pill!

1. "Alpha widowed" isn't just about having high standards; it's about having standards warped and inflated by exposure to a cock carousel of alpha men (usually tall, good-looking, white, socially skilled). These alpha widows have been spoiled by attention and experience from men who naturally possess the traits they crave - good looks, confidence, assertiveness, social dominance. They've tasted the high-SMV life, the excitement of being pursued by men who are normally out of their league. They've developed a taste for the top-shelf liquor and now find the cheap beer repulsive. These women have been pumped and dumped by the top 5% of men, leaving them with an insatiable hunger for a level of validation and excitement they'll likely never find again. It's logical to assume these women will always be comparing their current male partners to the idealized memories of alpha men who never truly belonged to them.

I can almost see the girls lined up on a F&F podcast as you say these words. A gaggle of Miami-based wannabe Kardashians who are about as representative of the general female population as the women you'd find at a feminist rally, being given a microphone to broadcast whatever comes first to their minds about their expectations in men.

From my point of view, the reality is that the kind of women who live that life are like strippers, they live a very unusual life within a high-octane, status-based lifestyle, dialed into whatever strategies they have for extracting the things they want from men, and often being treated just as coldly. They are operators in a sort of game of social and sexual warfare.

That's not how the vast majority of women are (especially the ones you meet in daygame). The typical woman, even a beautiful woman in a middle or upper class job, is living a much more normal life - going out to a bar once in a while because her friend wants her to meet more guys, hiking in nature on the weekends, doing yoga or fitdance after work, going on holidays at the end of the year, chasing the attentions of some manager in her office, and hoping that one day she can get married to a great guy and have some kids.

Even the more upper-class girls I've met in daygame seem more homebody on average than the rest of the girls I meet.

2. This is where I believe the female delusion can truly shine through. You expect these women to be self-aware enough to recognize their own inflated hypergamous expectations and to communicate them honestly? They're drowning in a sea of self-deception, convinced that they deserve the best men without necessarily possessing the qualities that attract and keep alpha men. They'll drop hints, sure, subtle complaints about their exes, veiled comparisons to cool men they've seen on Instagram. But they'll never admit outright that they're yearning for a man they can't have. They'll cling to the fantasy that they can find a beta who can somehow fill the void left by the alphas who discarded them.

Well if you want to date a jaded veteran of Miami/Dubai nightlife, get ready to face some PTSD.

3. I believe he shouldn't be. A beta who knowingly pursues an "alpha widowed" woman is setting himself up for a lifetime of misery. He'll be constantly compared to her past conquests, his efforts to please her will always fall short, and he'll probably end up raising another man's children. It's logical to assume that he is better off finding a woman whose mind and body have not been corrupted by any highly attractive dominant man.

Maybe. But I think you are conflating 'been with high value man' with 'got chewed up and spat out by the lifestyle'. It's not the same thing at all. A girl can be with a 'high value' man - a guy with loads of status and money - and if he treats her well she comes away no different than a middle class guy who treated her well.

4. We know that in the modern sexual marketplace, the beta male faces a challenge. He's swimming against a current of female hypergamy, fueled by a culture that glorifies female promiscuity and rewards alpha male behavior. The older a woman gets, the more baggage she accumulates, increasing the likelihood of encountering an "alpha widow" – a woman whose expectations have been warped by a string of Chad encounters. Go younger. And he can and should consider nonmainstream communities as possible options. But even within seemingly conservative communities, the pervasive influence of modern sex culture has eroded traditional values, leaving even most young Christian women with a history of multiple partners.

I've lost count of the number of keywords here that sprang out of the 'manosphere' - all I can say is that this is all basically a bubble of reality peddled by the red pill in order to make guys feel as if the world is about to end, so they end up addicted to the validating feeling of collective helplessness, and consume their mill of content.

The harsh truth is that the well has been poisoned. Finding a virtuous woman is akin to finding a needle in a haystack. A beta male must be prepared for a long and arduous journey, fraught with disappointment and rejection. He must be realistic about his prospects and accept the possibility that he may never find the woman of his dreams. This doesn't mean he should give up, but it does mean he needs to adjust his expectations and prepare for a challenging and often disheartening reality.

It is hard to find a good woman. Physical and psychological quality is rare. I did a calculation at one point based on finding a woman who's not overweight, above average looks, the right age for marriage etc etc .. I came to the conclusion that even finding a 'ok deal' is like 95th percentile or something based purely on statistics.

There's a lot you can do to increase your opportunities, such as learning how to seduce women in different environments and giving her a satisfying relationship, but you won't find me saying that finding great women is easy.

Despite the bleak outlook, I believe that a beta male should never surrender to despair. He should relentlessly pursue self-improvement, honing his physique, cultivating his mind, and mastering his skills. He should learn and understand the dynamics of attraction and seduction to level the playing field. He can and should become the best version of himself.

Amen!

5. I would argue that in order to truly reduce the incidence of "alpha-widowed" women, a beta male must understand that individual action is insufficient. The problem for him and all the other beta males in our modern Western society is systemic, rooted in a culture that encourages female hypergamy and glorifies casual sex. Therefore, the solution requires a radical shift in societal values, a return to a time when chastity and long-term commitment were prized above fleeting pleasure and fleeting connections.

That might happen next century if you're lucky, as Chase writes about the tides of culture ebb and flow over the centuries. The question is whether you'll still be around to enjoy it.

This means advocating for policies that discourage premarital sex and promote traditional family structures. It means challenging the global feminist narrative that has demonized traditional masculinity and encouraged women to embrace their baser instincts. It means supporting legislation that restricts access to birth control, making casual sex less convenient and encouraging a more thoughtful approach to relationships and reproduction. It means promoting a culture that values marriage and family as the cornerstones of a healthy society.

That's not something you or I could bring about, even if we wanted to.

If we self-selected out of the game, it would just make it a bit easier for everyone else.

In essence, I would say that a beta man must choose only one for his society: casual sex or marriage. He must recognize that the two are actually incompatible, that a society that embraces one will inevitably suffer the consequences of the other. He must fight for a world where women are encouraged to value commitment and fidelity, where marriage is seen as a sacred bond, and where the family unit is once again the bedrock of civilization. This is a long and arduous battle, but it might be a battle worth fighting, for the future of civilization hangs in the balance.

Well, as they say, a man doesn't live by bread alone. If he wants to focus all his efforts on trying to change the world and make party girls chaste again, I wish him the very best of luck! It's just not very likely to work.

 

[topcat]

exposure to a cock carousel of alpha men (usually tall, good-looking, white, socially skilled)

Sounds like you've been alpha widowed mate..

Whatever society you're advocating for, let me know the location so I can stay far the fuck away from there..

@Will_V and the rest of you who should know better, why are we catering to this new influx of redpill hobgoblins?

Their mind is made up, they aren't interested in self improvement and I doubt they ever will be. They'd rather shout at their screens while they wait for RedPill Chad-daddy to reinstate a golden age where they're handed a complimentary trad-bride as a prize for merely existing.

Fuck these guys bro.

The blog isn't that hard for them to find..you're wasting your energy on these fools.

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

Yeah I mean once again looking at the problem not the solution.

I don’t have the desire or need to go out with most chicks and I’m pretty fast to dump them. I know many richer men that have used private investigators on their wives and it happens vice versa as well.

For me personally I am not afraid to tell women no and I’m not at all bound to helping them out either. The more annoying part that I’ve dealt with isn’t the hoe past but more the ex boyfriends that I do not have a desire to deal with or her having children and not disclosing the fact.

 

[Skills]

Sounds like you've been alpha widowed mate..

Whatever society you're advocating for, let me know the location so I can stay far the fuck away from there..

@Will_V and the rest of you who should know better, why are we catering to this new influx of redpill hobgoblins?

Their mind is made up, they aren't interested in self improvement and I doubt they ever will be. They'd rather shout at their screens while they wait for RedPill Chad-daddy to reinstate a golden age where they're handed a complimentary trad-bride as a prize for merely existing.

Fuck these guys bro.

The blog isn't that hard for them to find..you're wasting your energy on these fools.

English is my second language what is a hobgoblin?? No hablo inglés... thanks in advance