Calls & Texts My last post on hard closing and the psychology of why is lower odds...

[Brassfaced_Jim]

pickup coach Paul Janka kept a tonne of stats that he gave at seminars and in books etc, and They were broken down a few times, including by 'pickupartistmindset' (dating website).
Anyway, his approach to lay ratio was said to be 1.5%

67 approaches to get 1 lay.

I thought was higher.
This is even worse news and proof of cold approach being near useless.

As PJ was Tall Dark & Very Handsome

Not that i've ever felt that means anything.

Many people only ever approach off of IOI's (or even count a girl opening them as an approach.). So that will improve their success rate a tonne!

Also, it doesn't account for the very real issue of your 'fundamentals', AND how they are in relation to the girl you are hitting on.
These will also massively effect the ratio, of course.
A guy might have an extremely 'bad' ratio, but when you realise he only cold approaches (doesn't wait for IOI's), he's 70, and he only approaches girls under 22, then in reality he's actually a pickup god! haha

So the metric itself isn't one to worry about, imo

You don’t feel it means anything(?)
Of course it does .
Why would anyone want to spend hours per day beating the streets , having hundreds of interactions for basically .. nothing? What a massive waste of time!

if PJ was doing 1 in 67.
The typical day gamer guy is doing 1 in 300 or something.
Some guys have posted stats of 1 in 1000
Then post thread asking’ what am I doing wrong?’ Answer. - everything. Just stop doing that.

 

[famineofcrows]

Then post thread asking’ what am I doing wrong?’ Answer. - everything. Just stop doing that.

not necessarily lol. That's the problem.
Imagine someone saying he approached every girl in the venue. All 400 of them. He didn't get anywhere with them.
But then he reveals that he is 70 and obese and the venue was a modelling convention full of 19 year old swimsuit models with SMV through the roof lol. His 'game' might have been perfect. Just no attraction

 

[OldGuy]

Your fundamentals are not worth anything without some game. I found pulling hot 20 year olds a lot easier as a 300 pound 70 year old than I did as a 186 pound 20 year old! At 20, I did not recognize green lights, AI, of IoI and blew the few dates I did get. The more advanced game techniques may not be so important, but basic game is needed. (At 20, I had already lost approach anxiety.)

 

[HeartOfChaos]

Why would anyone want to spend hours per day beating the streets , having hundreds of interactions for basically .. nothing? What a massive waste of time!

Yes, the hundreds of hours I spent on daygame over 15 years is a huge waste. But if you have no social circle that allows you to meet attractive young women easily, or other means of accessing them, what's a guy meant to do?

10 years ago I already wrote on pua zone that from my experience, you'd need 100-200 random approaches to get laid from daygame. Nowdays it's probably worse. Of course the ratios are heavily dependent on location and other factors. But the exact numbers dont matter. What matters is that indeed, its a huge time and energy sink, with little results.

 

[Skills]

Yes, the hundreds of hours I spent on daygame over 15 years is a huge waste. But if you have no social circle that allows you to meet attractive young women easily, or other means of accessing them, what's a guy meant to do?

10 years ago I already wrote on pua zone that from my experience, you'd need 100-200 random approaches to get laid from daygame. Nowdays it's probably worse. Of course the ratios are heavily dependent on location and other factors. But the exact numbers dont matter. What matters is that indeed, its a huge time and energy sink, with little results.

again, in day game you will rarely have sdl, so you will relay a lot in second encounters, the way you text will lower the odds of second encounter...

p.s. @Will_V and @POB this post have been derailed to death, maybe split to whatever they are talking about..

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

not necessarily lol. That's the problem.
Imagine someone saying he approached every girl in the venue. All 400 of them. He didn't get anywhere with them.
But then he reveals that he is 70 and obese and the venue was a modelling convention full of 19 year old swimsuit models with SMV through the roof lol. His 'game' might have been perfect. Just no attraction

lol at this.
If you’re serious (can’t tell tbh)
This example = grasping at straws.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Yes, the hundreds of hours I spent on daygame over 15 years is a huge waste. But if you have no social circle that allows you to meet attractive young women easily, or other means of accessing them, what's a guy meant to do?

Join classes in a few hobbies and start building some SC. Just go to where there are women , let them observe you over time interact w fhem here and there . If they are interest they will actively let you know.

CrossFit classes, Latin dance classes, yoga, Pilates, meditation classes , meetup groups, pottery classes. Whatever. Wherever women may gather.

For hot women it’ll be health and fitness related I guess…and also spirituality related stuff.

10 years ago I already wrote on pua zone that from my experience, you'd need 100-200 random approaches to get laid from daygame. Nowdays it's probably worse. Of course the ratios are heavily dependent on location and other factors. But the exact numbers dont matter. What matters is that indeed, it’s a huge time and energy sink, with little results.

Those numbers sound about right re the reality. Massive investment of time indeed.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

not necessarily lol. That's the problem.
Imagine someone saying he approached every girl in the venue. All 400 of them. He didn't get anywhere with them.
But then he reveals that he is 70 and obese and the venue was a modelling convention full of 19 year old swimsuit models with SMV through the roof lol. His 'game' might have been perfect. Just no attraction

I don’t really understand this example or your point.
I stated if a typical guy is doing 1 in 100-200
Or worse 1 in 200-1000.
He ought to just look at the stats. Count the hours he’s invested already. And just stop doing that.( Cos it’s stupid.!)

your example is a 70 ur old man at a modelling convention , doing 0 in 400.
Is the same advice. He should also stop doing that .. cos it’s stupid.

your last statement I’ve bolded is a contradiction in terms.

Ie if a guys ‘Game is prefect ‘ that means he pulls birds. ! Effectively and efficiently.
as ‘Game’ includes ‘getting attraction.’

otherwise hes just delusional.

A statement such as “ that guys Game is perfect , he is a smooth talking mofo, he just never pulls chicks” makes no sense?

 

[HeartOfChaos]

CrossFit classes, Latin dance classes, yoga, Pilates, meditation classes , meetup groups, pottery classes. Whatever. Wherever women may gather.

Do you think I haven't thought of this?

I do these things (ashtanga yoga, workouts, etc) on my own. Have done for last 15 years. All my pursuits are solitary, they always have been. And the rest of the time, I am busy with work, working on my own business activities, and so on. I started actively doing yoga in classes in 2009 (not to meet women, but because I wanted to learn yoga) - my experience was that people would come, do yoga, then leave. They wouldn't really interact. I saw a couple of girls checking me out there, but there wasnt any real opportunity for interaction. Two years later I transitioned to practising on my own.

So the only reason why I'd ever come to those activities is to meet women, and it just doesn't make sense. I have no desire being there otherwise.

 

[HeartOfChaos]

He ought to just look at the stats. Count the hours he’s invested already. And just stop doing that.( Cos it’s stupid.!

It's stupid yes. But if I hadnt, then I would never have met and fucked the women I have... I am really not sure the payoff would have been better had I went to some "class" instead - because as I said, I'd only be there to find women and that's also stupid...

I wish there was some "organic" and natural, for me at least, way to meet younger women. I am 39, what I want is a woman under 30, for something serious, who matches my values, my intelligence, and naturally vibes with me deeply. The only way I realistically see is to continue approaching thousands of randoms.

Or maybe travel to the country I was born in (where its easier to meet women randomly and they are much hotter and better educated than UK ones and at least speak my mother tongue) or my (yet another) country of citizenship (where women are difficult, but also hotter than UK ones).... But travel requires a lot of time that I can't take just like that. And I'd still need to approach randoms, just probably less than in London.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Do you think I haven't thought of this?

I do these things (ashtanga yoga, workouts, etc) on my own. Have done for last 15 years. All my pursuits are solitary, they always have been. And the rest of the time, I am busy with work, working on my own business activities, and so on. I started actively doing yoga in classes in 2009 (not to meet women, but because I wanted to learn yoga) - my experience was that people would come, do yoga, then leave. They wouldn't really interact. I saw a couple of girls checking me out there, but there wasnt any real opportunity for interaction. Two years later I transitioned to practising on my own.

So the only reason why I'd ever come to those activities is to meet women, and it just doesn't make sense. I have no desire being there otherwise.

I’ve done Hot Yoga over about a year .
I had the same experience tbh re the afterwards. I figured it was because I was a bit chubby at the time and I did it w a fit female friend sometimes also.
But my friend who is much fitter and leaner /muscular did Yoga at the same time and did it for training to be a Yoga Instructor , got hit on by a very hot chick, who was fairly obvious and persistent re her crush on him.

he had a GF at the time , but was tempted haha he’d call me with his dilemma “ I’m struggling, she is very hot and hitting on me obviously, what ought I do ?!” (He stayed faithful in the end.)

Chicks are attracted to status also and extroverted ,socially connected guy (very attractive to them). So a strategy may be to become an instructor , teacher , etc

aim for more status within the social circle / group moreso. Become an ‘alpha’ within the circles .. yknow?

your statement of “All my pursuits are solitary, they always have been. “

Is a primary issue imo. Just try become more extroverted. It’s actually not that hard.

just say ‘Yes’ to new activities and offers. And see what happens. A-la Jim Carreys character in the movie The Yes Man,

this is the kinda thing Brent Smith advocates for also. Become more of an extroverted , socially connected ‘Cool Guy’ w more hobbies and friends form social circle,

It’s a better path. And not that hard really. Just seems intimidating and a bit hard at first early days. But there’s a ‘snowball effect’ to it , once you get into it.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

It's stupid yes. But if I hadnt, then I would never have met and fucked the women I have... I am really not sure the payoff would have been better had I went to some "class" instead - because as I said, I'd only be there to find women and that's also stupid...

See my reply #91 above.
There’s a bigger picture to it re social circle , a snowball effect w bigger pay offs.

at least you are recognising the hours put in to CA so far vs the reaults. the effort to reward ratio. And that in reality it is quite low. A bad E-R ratio. Start from there.

I wish there was some "organic" and natural, for me at least, way to meet younger women. I am 39, what I want is a woman under 30, for something serious, who matches my values, my intelligence, and naturally vibes with me deeply. The only way I realistically see is to continue approaching thousands of randoms.

You are stuck in the psychological /behaviour phenomenon of ‘commitment and consistency ‘
Ie the longer a person has been doing something , the more likley they are to keep doing it”
That’s actually a Trap.

C & C is well known and utilised in the area of Sales and Influencing.

robert Chialdini breaks it down well in his book Influence also. Where I read about it.

it’s also known as ‘Sunk Cost’ in business.

can be seen with IT System Implementations (good example tbh)
Ie mega $ sunk cost , system not working , pour more money into it to try fix and patch it , etc etc … Sunk Cost = keep going

basically when you go so far down the wrong road , it seems to be a good idea to keep going. When the better idea is to go back to the crossroads and start over.

Or maybe travel to the country I was born in (where its easier to meet women randomly and they are much hotter and better educated than UK ones and at least speak my mother tongue) or my (yet another) country of citizenship (where women are difficult, but also hotter than UK ones).... But travel requires a lot of time that I can't take just like that. And I'd still need to approach randoms, just probably less than in London.

See above and reply #91.
Take the hours and effort of CA and redirect them into another strategy/area simply.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Btw @HeartOfChaos
I’d be interested to know how many estimated approaches you have done vs how many lays you’ve got so far .. roughly anyways. Out of curiousity.