Need some life advice (should guys settle)

[punishedsnake]

Hi. I'm an unattractive guy. For the past 4 or so years I've had no good results with women. I've tried dating apps using professional photographers. I've tried dressing well and using both daygame and nightgame. I know why now. As Chase said, a woman is interested or she isn't and she knows that as soon as she meets you. I'm not competitive at all in my looks and that's why I'm internally turned down as soon as I greet a woman. I only get dates by using dating apps and being a bit lucky that the woman follows through and schedules a date with me. What I've found over these years is that I do have a chance with some women
-curvier women, and usually foreign
-women who find me interesting as a person but don't want to do anything physical until after marriage.

I'm through with wondering why I don't attract women or why things have gone so badly for me. You people on GC have great information available for free and totally comprehensive premium services. The material works very well but it just hasn't for me. I'm asking this question because I'm sure that if I keep going this year I'll find a woman from one of the above two categories and have a chance to progress things with her. My question is this.... should I settle for it when it happens? I wasn't into curvy women because I don't find them so attractive, and even looking at personality I'm obsessive about health and fitness, but most curvy women are not. For the second group, I always imagined that I'd just be able to get a 'standard' or 'traditional' relationship and progress to marriage and kids. So every time I find a woman like this, I worry about what kind of foundation the marriage would have, whether I'd be happy being in a relationship from meeting to marriage that I'm not 100% into and whether any woman who says that to me has that as a hard and fast rule or if it's just for me. So, experienced guys, should a man be settling if he wants to have a family or does it usually lead to ruin that's worse than staying single for life?

 

[DarkKnight]

I have a big feeling that whatever you have been doing, you have been going at it wrong.... I think you should heavily focus on your fundamentals. In your position go all out.. Diet like a pro. With fitness don't do solo training -> it almost never works unless you really know what you are doing. Train in a group with an instructor and you can your own exercises around those. Slim down if you have too much fat at the moment (this is a big deal.. even me with solid muscle beneath when I get a bit fatter I get less IOI's which creates a less positive feedback loop). You need to become more entitled and getting more AI's and IOI's help with that... and you need perspective.

Also at which age bracket are you? If those are early 20's and if you have decent income you can turn a lot things around.

 

[punishedsnake]

I have a big feeling that whatever you have been doing, you have been going at it wrong.... I think you should heavily focus on your fundamentals. In your position go all out.. Diet like a pro. With fitness don't do solo training -> it almost never works unless you really know what you are doing. Train in a group with an instructor and you can your own exercises around those. Slim down if you have too much fat at the moment (this is a big deal.. even me with solid muscle beneath when I get a bit fatter I get less IOI's which creates a less positive feedback loop). You need to become more entitled and getting more AI's and IOI's help with that... and you need perspective.

Also at which age bracket are you? If those are early 20's and if you have decent income you can turn a lot things around.

I feel like I'm done, man. I just don't have the desire to try any more. I am already in shape. Kind of like bodybuilder shape. I never get approach invitations. That's what I explained in my first post. The material on here works incredibly well if a guy gets the AI to start with. Without it, it might not work. It's not the material's fault, but the guy who tried to use it in a context for which it was not designed.

When I first started reading on here around 4 years ago I was mid/late 20s and now I'm 30s. I think that income is already just about enough to support a family. It hasn't helped for me. Recently, I've been trying to get into the boyfriend category by paying for dates (I know that Chase recommends against this but I am just questioning and testing everything) and I get ignored even worse over text afterwards. These are dates that I was lucky to get using apps.

 

[DarkKnight]

Bodybuilding shape is in my book not optimal... Go for athletic type. Also how is your fat level? I have a sharp feeling you are giving up way too soon.

 

[Wick]

You say that you’ve read the material here, yet you’re blaming your lack of success on your looks.

Its one of the central teachings here at GC that looks do not matter in the way that you seem to be assuming.

I agree with DK, it sounds to me that you’re misunderstanding some core things about game.

I tend to have pretty blunt and direct language, so I hope you don’t take offense at my tone. I have a hard time explaining myself otherwise. I genuinely want to help.

I suggest you write up a few more posts and give details about how you are doing things. Try to paint the best and most clear picture of you and your game, and ask specific questions about things you’ve tried but haven’t succeeded with.

You said it yourself, you’re “done” and probably not very motivated to invest more time into game because you haven’t been progressing. That’s why you’re considering settling for less.

I hope I can encourage you to strive a bit more. Not in the same way, but trying new things because I doubt that having good game is impossible for you. Tap the forum here. I think Tony D is still offering one free coaching session.

 

[Rain]

How many approaches have you done with AI, and how many without?
Excluding online dating.

 

[punishedsnake]

Bodybuilding shape is in my book not optimal... Go for athletic type. Also how is your fat level? I have a sharp feeling you are giving up way too soon.

Aren't bodybuilding and athletic shape roughly similar? Look at Tyson Gay and Brock Lesnar, for example. I must be 15-18% body fat, like this photo

https://i2.wp.com/ironandgrit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-fat-percentage-pictures.jpg?w=400&ssl=1

I've had coaching in person. All these coaches do is teach you how to overcome approach anxiety and make a direct opener. I can do it now. But whenever I do it, the woman has to get going very soon and I interpret this to mean that she was not interested.

How many approaches have you done with AI, and how many without?
Excluding online dating.

I don't get AIs. My last one was over 2 years ago and I didn't approach then, because I had approach anxiety when approaching alone (could only approach with a wing). That approach anxiety is gone now but I don't get AIs. I've maybe done 50 approaches in life, all without AI.

 

[DarkKnight]

No I don't see that as athletic body it's obvious stiff ass bodybuilder body. I like to combine circuit training/MMA and weightlifting.. If I had some more time and space I would add swimming. I do this to have a dynamic body.. instead of a stiff bodybuild body. However you do not have to go that far.. People got laid without working out lol. 15-18 percent is fine.. but losing a bit more fat would help. Look at the picture right, the slimmed down face looks more attractive.

I don't believe that you really are that "ugly" unless you have some kind of deformity which can happen.. These days people do nosejobs and such which change a lot. Some chick I know has upgraded herself from a 4/5 to a fucking 9, if she can do that.. you can do that too. I still do not think this is necessary though.

How is your clothing/confidence?

Anyway there is enough to work on... There are probably a few critical areas which are easy to correct, but what you are not seeing.

 

[ulrich]

No, you don’t have to settle. Even less if you have a good body.

If you have been working your ass off and you have not had at least decent results, you’re doing something wrong.

Think about it.
If thousands of dumber, uglier guys than you can get a hot girlfriend, you should too.

We get rants like this every month in the forum. It is usually from a guy who thinks he tried it all but is missing or misunderstanding some key concepts and can’t move forward.
Tell us more about your interactions and we can diagnose and help.

Just venting out your frustration doesn’t give us enough clues to help.

 

[Rain]

I've had coaching in person. All these coaches do is teach you how to overcome approach anxiety and make a direct opener. I can do it now. But whenever I do it, the woman has to get going very soon and I interpret this to mean that she was not interested.

I don't get AIs. My last one was over 2 years ago and I didn't approach then, because I had approach anxiety when approaching alone (could only approach with a wing). That approach anxiety is gone now

If you have a body like in that above, I'm surprised you don't get many AI. You might be getting them and not seeing them and/or you might be , despite the body, and you might be a little nervous even when just hanging out and it shows maybe?

How did you go from approach anxiety to no approach anxiety, eg what was your method? Approach anxiety something I still work on at the moment.

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

Punished Snake? Bwahaha. I’ve been watching Metal Gear Solid Let’s Plays lately.

All right, I’m a bloodhound on sniffing this sort of stuff out I’ll give you my two tips.

- Change Your Habit
This is the most important tip, because my first thing I’m thinking is that you go to the same places and do the same actions. Sort of like muscle memory.

If I go out gaming I have a couple of different neighbourhoods I go for groceries, a couple of different places for dessert or coffee or ice cream etc..... Allows me to meet a “variety” of people. Once you are done exploring these places and you find an area that jives with what you are looking for find some cuties to approach.

*[Then I super recommend writing up an action report about the interaction

2. You might be a scary type of guy, not sure if you have a pair of fake glasses in the wardrobe, but I’d try using a pair of fake glasses. Maybe a nice new shirt and a good pair of pants. Nothing needs to be fancy, but oomph.

Am I on the right track with this advice?

cheers musto

 

[punishedsnake]

My confidence is low because I've had no success. The affirmations and meditations only took me so far. As for clothing, I am not sure. Most guys who wing with me say that they like the way that I'm dressed. But I've convinced that most guys are still not really sure about how constitutes effective fashion for seduction. Whenever I go out and approach, I make a direct opener and very soon into the interaction - less than 1 minute in - I hear "I have to get going now". If I use false time constraints or push for the phone number, the phone number will turn out to be a dud. On dates (all through dating apps) I have tried outdoor, indoor, expensive, cheap, touching, not touching.... and I still can't seem to get it right. Sometimes I get the feeling that, within a few minutes, she is not happy to be there. Other times I get the feeling that she's enjoying the conversation but has already decided that the date won't be going anywhere. However I could be very wrong there; I try not to judge until the date is over.

For approach anxiety, I had a coach tell me to approach and I found that I could do it. Then I approached with wings. I found that if I was with a friend approaching, the anxiety wouldn't be there. What really helped me was chatting to my wing about some mundane thing and then deciding to approach, pausing the conversation and then going so no time to think because you go from the conversation to your opener. If approaching alone, it's going to be tougher but there are many standard warm up schemes that you could use such as saying "good afternoon" to a hired gun, asking for directions, delivering a direct compliment and then finally doing a full direct approach. You might be a tougher case though. When I got approaching, it became clear that I didnt have any major social or approach anxiety.

I think that my type are more nerdy or studious and it's true that the places where I have gone to approach wouldn't typically attract nerdy types.

 

[ulrich]

If girls are deciding they don’t want to be around you in a couple of minutes this is not game, it’s fundamentals.

Talk us about your appearance, hygiene, voice, fitness and vibe in general.
What do strangers typically think of you upon meeting?

 

[jackal2020]

@punishedsnake — you’ve only done 50 approaches lifetime and expect great results?

It takes ~a lot~ more than that to get anywhere consistently. Even if you’re tall, good looking, and attractive, it can take a lot more than that to get a hit. Furthermore, it takes at least a few to “warm up” if you’ve taken time off, so it sounds like you’re in a perpetually “cold” state.

Cheer up! You’ve got nothing to worry about. Go do another 150 (hard I know), write down what went well and poorly, and how you felt (excited, fun, flirty). Then come back here.

This is a numbers game. And the numbers are a lot lower than anyone likes to admit. You’ll get better, see patterns, and learn what interest looks like as you do this. Good luck!!

 

[Starboy]

@punishedsnake — you’ve only done 50 approaches lifetime and expect great results?

It takes ~a lot~ more than that to get anywhere consistently. Even if you’re tall, good looking, and attractive, it can take a lot more than that to get a hit. Furthermore, it takes at least a few to “warm up” if you’ve taken time off, so it sounds like you’re in a perpetually “cold” state.

Cheer up! You’ve got nothing to worry about. Go do another 150 (hard I know), write down what went well and poorly, and how you felt (excited, fun, flirty). Then come back here.

This is a numbers game. And the numbers are a lot lower than anyone likes to admit. You’ll get better, see patterns, and learn what interest looks like as you do this. Good luck!!

I second this bro. @punishedsnake I'm currently at 80 approaches and a lot of my approaches was just me slamming my ego into the wall. I talked to a lot of women who could've been available to me and looking back I made mistakes that I could've corrected. Could've handled women's objections of hanging with friends,encouraged to meetup now instead of taking their number and hoping she will feel like hanging out later. I had two numbers recently where I probably fucked up and got no responses even though one of them guaranteed liked me.

What encourages me to keep going even though I haven't been getting laid or dates are the women who give me positive reactions,good energy and really appreciate my compliment/approach. That makes me feel good about what I do and shows that everything I do isn't a waste of time. Women like talking to me and don't just dismiss me every single time. Every single approach further desensitizes you to AA,rejection,ego hits and brings you a % closer to suceeding.

It's important to approach women with good energy and vibe. Not always easy,but if you see a woman you like and you compliment her with genuine sincerity and a attractive smile she will at the very least acknowledge you. If the woman isn't giving you much interested vibes just be like no problem have a good day and she will respect that you're not a desperate needy guy.

You do NOT want to settle. You will be miserable. I have a friend who I can tell is miserable,unhappy and desperate on the inside. He's a twig who refuses to work out,is too nice and soft, too introverted,complains about women being on the streets and plays games and he won't change a thing about himself. He told female friends he's so lonely he would date a stripper or something.Wtf. This is how guys think when they settle.

This stuff is tough and it will test your sanity,but if you keep pressing you will make progress as long as you learn to be self aware and identify what can I do better. You are still not desensitized to AA and game itself. 50 lifetime is not enough to get good results. Also it's very common for women to have boyfriends and husbands they really value their relationships.

 

[ElderPrice]

You received a lot of seduction-related help here. Let me provide a different perspective:

It's not the material. It's not necessarily your attempts at executing the material. It's your brain that's messed up. You're trying to seduce without a properly wired brain. No wonder it doesn't work for you!

Signs to me that your brain wiring is off:
- Lots of negativity in your writing and attitude
- Specifically, you reveal the presence of false, irrational, negative beliefs
- Also, your words reveal you don't have much respect for yourself. Or firm standards.
- The way you speak of some fundamentals shows you are desperate and outcome dependent ('I tried professional photographs but that didn't work... 'I tried dressing well but that didn't work... 'I tried bodybuilding but that didn't work...'). You should be doing these things because they make YOU feel great. If you're doing them to get women, that's the entirely wrong mindset.

As a result, I guarantee this poorly wired brain is coming across in pretty much every woman you talk to. Meaning, body language. I bet your eye contact needs improvement. I bet you don't stand as tall as you could be. I bet your voice doesn't sound as confident as it could be. But you can try and fix these all you want - if you ignore the negative thoughts and beliefs that are causing these poor fundamentals, you'll never get them where they need to be to attract the kind of women you want.

I recommend investing in legit cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT). Not free shit you find online. An actual, structured program built by a professional.

Up until now, you've done a good job working on your appearance. You made your body better and stronger, you dress better, you probably have a good haircut, etc. Now, the challenge is to make inside your brain better. You dress well all the time? Try getting your brain to think positive all the time. You made your body strong? Try getting your mind strong. This is what CBT will do for you.

Then, once you start living your life like a man who is always positive, respecting yourself, confident, and unshakable, beautiful women will notice.

 

[fog]

this is a pivotal moment for you and its amazing that you've reached out to us like this.

please do not settle. if you settle, you will look back on your life on your deathbed and regret the decision. you will die wondering what could have been

youre an unattractive guy as you mentioned and its coming out through your vibe and energy. people take one look at you [in real life or in pictures] and feel sorry for you, or they start feeling unattractive and gross as well. the girls who are attracted to you....they are oblivious to this due to their own lack of understanding.

its all entirely fixable for you in the next few years, depending on how bad you want change and how much you want to take charge of your life. it will require a lot of work on your part. you will need help identifying the issues and i think you should get a coach to jumpstart the process

so what do you want? do you want to settle with a fat girl, or are you willing to make a short term sacrifice to achieve a better dating life?

 

[Skills]

@punishedsnake — you’ve only done 50 approaches lifetime and expect great results?

It takes ~a lot~ more than that to get anywhere consistently. Even if you’re tall, good looking, and attractive, it can take a lot more than that to get a hit. Furthermore, it takes at least a few to “warm up” if you’ve taken time off, so it sounds like you’re in a perpetually “cold” state.

Cheer up! You’ve got nothing to worry about. Go do another 150 (hard I know), write down what went well and poorly, and how you felt (excited, fun, flirty). Then come back here.

This is a numbers game. And the numbers are a lot lower than anyone likes to admit. You’ll get better, see patterns, and learn what interest looks like as you do this. Good luck!!

^ yeah not only that he is looking for a WIFE prospect, that is all i needed to read to know this dude with that mentality is doomed... Then he is thinks that be cause he has "a nice body" that, oh shit they need to like me, totally not understanding women and dynamics and of course no confidence game over......

op if you are not able to attract and seduce multiple women, forget about looking for a wife... And yes now is in some cases harder than before to attract and seduce women, specially with corona, there needs to be double to triple the effort and consistency of going out and grinding...

 

[punishedsnake]

So the feeling that I am getting here is that a guy shouldn't settle. Is this really correct though? If a woman was getting a bit older and wanted to have kids and had the option to settle (for her less than ideal guy) then wouldn't many say that it is prudent for her to do so? Is there an analogous situation where a guy should settle? I'm just wondering if there are any examples of any guys who settled and things went well for them.

When I stated in the first post that I'm an unattractive guy, you shouldn't see it as me being negative but rather as a fact. It's a fact that I haven't been able to attract the women that I'd be excited to meet and so I'm unattractive by definition. It's not just an aberration; I have failed for multiple years and over 50 online dates so that's the only conclusion. I think that my voice sounds fine. I did some simple vocal exercises and then recorded myself speaking out loud for a few weeks and I can't hear any issues. I also use the old trick when going out that if you're not sure if your voice is sounding the way you want it to, just speak a little louder.

For CBT, I could have taken it but I was told that I didn't have any strong symptoms of any major mental disorder and so I could take it or leave it. I decided to leave it. Maybe that was a bad decision and I should go back.

So are you all saying that I just need to go out there for my approach sessions and suffer? Spend hours every week doing my approaches and in 1000 or so approaches I'll be getting dates? Is it definitely ok to continue approaching without getting any AIs? The worry I have is that there are guys who go for years with thousands of approaches and no results. But even worse is that if my approaches go well, it will be a date, and dates are an arena where I have already failed badly. I also don't want to grind myself down further. Every bad approach session is going to hurt. I can live with a bad approach session but what if I turn progressively more bitter and sabotage myself further? But I guess that I have to remember that game is a game of asymmetric returns and that he who dares wins, especially here.

 

[ulrich]

Mmmm... I really think you should get a coach.

If you ask me, it seems you are drawing a lot of wrong conclusions and failing to observe plenty of critical points.
This comes from bad understanding of game.

You need someone to look at you, your vibe and your game and give you personal feedback.

Grinding is going to help too little until you disengage the brake.