Never use a direct opener

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Well... I must be an oddity then because I used to run the "I just saw you and thought you look cute" whenever I couldnt coke up with a good opener and I am confident I was getting consistently past the hook point (30% or so)(directed approaches, not spraying and praying)

No offense @Brassfaced_Jim, but I feel you're acting a little to much of a purist with this subject.
You don't lose points for doing direct... its just lower probability. You also dont need to be a gigaCHAD, Im 5'6"

Need more info.
The stats are already out there from legit pickup OG gurus.. that day game is very inefficient and bad effort to reward ratio.
There’s no need for me to argue the data. It’s already out there in the community .

yes it’s lower probability, exactly.
So why would you want LOWER probability .. in an ALREADY low odds situation .. ??lol.

that’s like.. doubling down on the dumbness of it all. Jesus

 

[ulrich]

yes it’s lower probability, exactly.
So why would you want LOWER probability .. in an ALREADY low odds situation .. ??lol.

Well, depends on effort vs results. If talking to a girl takes you 2 minutes and you get to fuck 5% of them... youre basically spending 40 minutes screening per hook. I dont see how that is a big loss.

It would be a problem if you had to takr them to 2 dates anf then maybe get 20% og them laid... but that was certainly not how I was running things.

When I used to do daygame I used to get numbers from 20-30%, dates for the half of them and laid about 60% of the girls I dated.
I guess thats like 6% open to lay?? Sounds low but felt extremely efficient in my book.

I honestly dont understand why when most "gurus" share their numbers they are lambasted as being low. Laying 10% of the women you talk to is an amazing rate.
The catch is just not overinvesting in any middle stage.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Well, depends on effort vs results. If talking to a girl takes you 2 minutes and you get to fuck 5% of them... youre basically spending 40 minutes screening per hook. I dont see how that is a big loss.

It would be a problem if you had to takr them to 2 dates anf then maybe get 20% og them laid... but that was certainly not how I was running things.

When I used to do daygame I used to get numbers from 20-30%, dates for the half of them and laid about 60% of the girls I dated.
I guess thats like 6% open to lay?? Sounds low but felt extremely efficient in my book.

I honestly dont understand why when most "gurus" share their numbers they are lambasted as being low. Laying 10% of the women you talk to is an amazing rate.
The catch is just not overinvesting in any middle stage.

10% or 1 in 10 would be best case scenario yeah. Best case.

BUT another user here corrected me on Janka. Saying based on Jankas later disclosure re his spreadsheet /stats it was actually 1.5% conversion rate ,
ie 1 lay in 67 approaches.
( very inefficient)

re your numbers/stats. 2 mins x 20 women to get 1 lay.
That’s 40 minutes in total condensed work time sure BUT… finding and approaching 20 decent women on street in reality is gonna take about what .. about 3-4 hours? Or worse most of a guys day.

Please don’t tell me you do this at a busy train station where all the chicks are rushing, on the go and in ‘objective mode’.

this is best case scenario stuff,

tell me your *real * stats.
How many approaches vs how many number closes vs how many dates vs how many lays .. is the real story

Most DayGamer guys here would admit they are approaching 50+ to get a lay , if not more,

a user here HOC says he’s doing hundreds of approaches.

There’s even posts of guys doing 1,000 approaches and getting only 1 lay

Madness .

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

A picture tells a thousand words they say and a video even moreso .
I’ll ask you dayGamer advicates a serious question - how do you think this student in the video is doing w his direct approach day game fellas?

Hopefully ya’ll are smoother than this massive CHEESEBAG . Hopefully this illustrates all my previous debate points.

and gathering phone numbers doesn’t really mean shit btw. Girls will gladly hand over phone numbers just to trick and fuck-off a guy. As it’s the easiest way to end the interaction, without suffering an awkward moment.

 

[Will_V]

Yes and they are all CHAD tier guys, macking on chicks below them in SMV.

How do you know that?

They say Paul Janka was batting something like 10% conversion . That’s 1 lay in 10 number closes.
but he also was a total Chad guy. Tall, dark and *very* good looking.

other users here say his conversion rate was actually only 1.5% (!) from his own disclosed records, that’s 1 lay in 67 number closes.

There was a youtube video somewhere where John Anthony was interviewing him and IIRC he said his approach to lay ratio was around 1/30.

So why are average smv guys trying to run a high smv guys Game? Makes no sense to me…

You can get all caught up in notions about SMV but what matters is how you make her feel, sometimes a girl just wants to be approached and banged a certain way and if you are the guy then you are the guy.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

How do you know that?



There was a youtube video somewhere where John Anthony was interviewing him and IIRC he said his approach to lay ratio was around 1/30.



You can get all caught up in notions about SMV but what matters is how you make her feel, sometimes a girl just wants to be approached and banged a certain way and if you are the guy then you are the guy.

Hi Will_V

please provide some kind of video proof of such a guy doing this in a *repeatable* and *skills based * fashion .

as this is how DayGame is touted by the coaches etc that tout it,

move scoured YT , cannot find any evidence of this.

the only guys that can do this are
1, Pretty Boy Chads or Alpha Jocks
2, BadBoys - ie well built BB types with Tattoos,

Ie - High value , Alpha type males .
Either Pretty Boy seducers or Protector Males.

thats about who this Game works for .

any YT coach that sells this , falls into these categories … and any of the others , likely fraudulent claims re their success and repeatablility of success.

 

[Will_V]

Hi Will_V

please provide some kind of video proof of such a guy doing this in a *repeatable* and *skills based * fashion .

as this is how DayGame is touted by the coaches etc that tout it,

move scoured YT , cannot find any evidence of this.

the only guys that can do this are
1, Pretty Boy Chads or Alpha Jocks
2, BadBoys - ie well built BB types with Tattoos,

Ie - High value , Alpha type males .
Either Pretty Boy seducers or Protector Males.

thats about who this Game works for .

any YT coach that sells this , falls into these categories … and any of the others , likely fraudulent claims re their success and repeatablility of success.

Nobody owes you or anyone else proof, it takes a lot of work and it's a risk putting yourself out there on youtube showing all your interactions, and for what? So that all these internet kj's can find some other reason to justify why what you do doesn't work for them?

If someone wants results then they need to believe they can do it and work until they get there. If they don't want to do that then nothing will change that.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I’ll chuck out a few names
Coach Guys like Casey Zander, Shaymaxx, Dean Whoever (uk guy) and others in the past like Honest Signalz are versions of Chads / Alphas. Good looking, buff , high SMV quite obviously

guys like Scotty GLL and Skills of this forum are possibly Tall (?) and well built , muscled , tatted up BadBoy-Protector-Dominant-Alpha type males.

Any other dude out there on YT sprooking succcess w this ‘method ‘ is highly likely to be a massive fraudster.

guys of the old guard like the whole RSD crew were all frauds.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I’ll chuck out even more names .

Brent Smith (Chad)
Zan Perrion ( male model level of looks almost ,in his prime)
The list goes on …of guys who were ever actually verified ‘legit’ .

I’ll shit up now as I’m ban-running.
And I’ve made contacts on the forum,

it’s pretty obvious to me, having studied pickup for about 15 years. And investigated every ‘Guru’ almost. What the real story is.

and I’m plenty experienced Will.

 

[Will_V]

I’ll chuck out a few names
Coach Guys like Casey Zander, Shaymaxx, Dean Whoever (uk guy) and others in the past like Honest Signalz are versions of Chads / Alphas. Good looking, buff , high SMV quite obviously

guys like Scotty GLL and Skills of this forum are possibly Tall (?) and well built , muscled , tatted up BadBoy-Protector-Dominant-Alpha type males.

Any other dude out there on YT sprooking succcess w this ‘method ‘ is highly likely to be a massive fraudster.

guys of the old guard like the whole RSD crew were all frauds.

I don't think you really understand what makes a woman tick.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I don't think you really understand what makes a woman tick.

Oh mate… if you only knew.

I’ll leave it there.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Actually I won’t

food for thought here … why is it that it’s a noticeable trend of PUA guys, coaches etc .. that at some point in their journey they hit the gym and buff up quite noticeably?

guys like RSD Jeffy… RSD Max…

other coaches who looksmaxxed out. I can’t recall them all. Daxx from LoveSystems . Other guys along the way.

Zan Perrion too another example.

its cos verbal Game has a ceiling
And cos mating is a competition.

At some point the only way ‘up’ is to increase your relative value versus other males with more SMV than you .

any of these day gamers , that look like Geeks , and sprook repeatable success ,are just sprookers , dream sellers and full of sh1t.

because The Real World exists . Period.

Any guys attractiveness to women is a ‘package of Value’ .period.

there is a set of ‘scales’ to it.

a geek with a silver tongue can only go so far. As there is a ceiling in the Real World. As other higher SMV guys .. actually exist and are walking around doing their thing.

I’ll leave it there -there. And End of story for me.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Well... I must be an oddity then because I used to run the "I just saw you and thought you look cute" whenever I couldnt coke up with a good opener and I am confident I was getting consistently past the hook point (30% or so)(directed approaches, not spraying and praying)

No offense @Brassfaced_Jim, but I feel you're acting a little to much of a purist with this subject.
You don't lose points for doing direct... it’s just lower probability. You also dont need to be a gigaCHAD, Im 5'6"

Idk mate, I think a guy can bring the ‘directness’ with his energy , body language and eye contact. And with a ambiguously sexual compliment attached. An indirect compliment.

‘you look cute ‘is a bit of a vanilla compliment tbh to me, there’s no creativity in that . No fun. Nothing to bounce off it and spin into other bits of conversation Yknow?

Like, just get more specific and make it a bit more flirty? It’s not hard ?

just pick something she’s wearing and make it slightly sexual and flirty off the bat.

“ nice jeans. They’re a great FIT” is better imo.
Sexual undertones.

translation -(“ I’m checking out your ass, those tight jeans show off your ass” , wink wink)

Much more effective.

‘you look cute’ is like a dog with its balls cut off to me. Show some balls and risk taking on the open if it’s a compliment. Be cheeky.

my 2c.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

hey is not a direct opener, is an attention grabber, similar to an approach invite...

? It depends how it’s said.
One word can be said with lots of tonalities.
It can be a very sleazy “heyyyyyyyyy”
As in ‘Hey baby, wanna fuck?’

the function of an opener is to open. That’s all really.

I like a video seminar thing by Zack Bauer , Rob judges dating coach mate. The important thing on the open is not the words it’s the guys frame , his energy, his intent, that he sub comms, with his .. everything .

what’s most important re a guy like you Skills is all of this. As you are a big physical frame. Muscled . Tattooed guy. You look like a protector / bouncer type.

your Type can be a sweetheart in talking.
Cos you already got the alpha badboy energy in your frame / thin slice / energy.

for a smaller guy like me. I gotta bring the boldness , the edge and the masculine in a different way.

it kinda all boils down to Personas and Identities for me. Different things suit different guys really tbh.

we all need bio photos up on here imo.