- Joined
- Mar 27, 2023
- Messages
- 1,810
Tiger / Fox / Otter
6 foot fence / 12 strawberries / no real answer to the farmer
iNvester / Denier / Idealist
Met this girl in a library a while back. She was wearing a velvet blazer. A couple weeks ago we went to a loud music lounge after a nap and sat on a couch watching the DJ. She cuddled in to me and always holds my arm when we walk.
Is this evil?
Me: It's super cozy inside looking out at the snow. Feels very at ease like a carryover comfort from cuddling this morning.
Her: I guess it is a cozy day. Just makes me wish I could still be snuggling up with you.
Me [four hours later]: [std results photo]
Me: It would have been nice to stay in bed this morning. I enjoy even comfortable silences laying there with you.
Her: Trying to get sex on my mind huh? And it really would have been. [she picked up chase frames from me]
Her: There would have been more time to get frisky.
Her: Plus I do just love being by your side
So last night she came and napped again ("I love that you want me on another adventure and I would love to see you later. What time are you thinking?"). We went out and scouted four venues. Thursday, extreme cold weather.
Venue 1 free night was an early hours event we arrived in the last half hour for. It was dead through the window.
Venue 2 free night outskirt dive bar had an old neighborhood crowd playing pool. Didn't stay, but these are good to check because certain ones have the live rock crowd, and that sort of scene often hosts dance nights with eclectic music.
Venue 3 free night, different lounge than last time. She got a sparkling water and we sat on a couch watching the DJ. She put both legs over my one leg, so I'm flat back on the couch and she's turned into me. I have her kiss my neck a ton of times and we chat about her odd times going out, pickup lines, etc. She said an ideal line on her would be a comment on her outfit. Curious if direct genuine compliment openers are ever a good idea in a club if it's an investor who needs focused attention. Guessing most girls out would be testers. Note investors also test... it seems more about entertaining suitors in either series or parallel.
We watch this sexy latina girl in a full mesh bodysuit dancing sensually, and a cute group of chill girls with one twerking, hands on the floor sometimes, etc., a few other girls there with a guy each, various guys, a few gay guys dancing. Observed one approach on the latina and her friend. Guy and wing, looked like social connection, but maybe that's just an illusion of a natural approach, as one introduced the other. Obvious observation though is don't lean in! Got some drive-thru fries after.
Venue 4 free night, larger open concept club. Heavy bass. Same deal couch along the wall, her legs over mine. Had her kiss my neck a lot. She likes to rub my back and stare.
Back home, she apparently packed this lingerie suit and changed into it. She also brings extra panties and said in the past she was resistant to fingering because she didn't want her panties to get all wet. She ends up interrupting foreplay with asking me if she's going to have to go months without seeing me regularly and is trying to get me to pin down a number like will I see her every three weeks, or every two, etc. It's a major turnoff and makes me soft... and she can typically arouse me instantly. I give her a very warm reiteration of all the warnings against me I have been clear on before. She completely killed the vibe and despite a light nap with her earlier (can rarely get deep sleep with someone there) I had been up since 5:30am and it was now like 3am. So I slept.
In the morning she still laid naked on top of me, like every inch of skin. Similar resistance. I essentially freeze her out eventually in a warm way, but start getting ready for the day. When I come out of the bathroom she asks me to put it in her. She ends up talking again and it's clear she has some sort of psychological barrier towards sex from being a bad boy chasing hopeful romantic. Again boner killer.
Franco's classification would likely be Low Drive, Low Self Esteem. He'd say run.
Her [before arriving]: Ok. Leaving now and will be there in [##] minutes.
Her [once back home]: I hope I do get to have sex with you soon.
Me: I know. Eat something hearty [she's underweight and trying to gain]
Her: I'm just worried I missed my only chance. I do trust you and I do want to be with you in that way. Also, I will
Her: Do you still want that with me?
@Chase post yesterday:
Like expressed in 60 Years of Challenge's Relationship Roulette, it is important to examine your need for affection. I have a great relationship with family. Despite exploring how enjoyable milf logistics can be, I am pretty certain my head's on straight in that area too. But I do have an extreme liking for skin to skin. Part of it is also knowing how strong of a retention technique it can be. Sounds clinical, but most girls seem to really crave and specifically ask for it once they've been held.
Not sure if the warning is about burning out the chemical ability to pair bond, or maybe desensitization from girls exhibiting attachment.
Another Chase post yesterday:
Most interesting point here is the oxytocin / vasopressin gender difference for pair bonding. Past post said it evolved man-to-man??? Trust-building and shared challenges makes sense. Curious how the first post above is impacted by cuddling tendencies for men if vasopressin is the pair bond affecter. Maybe LMR is a shared challenge and also consistent with sunken cost effect.
I don't always know how to do things differently. Like am I supposed to make a girl like me less... or not engage with the ones that are more passionate, and instead focus on a "one time only" strategy. Or it could simply be a Cluster B consideration. Maybe I am still decoupling animalistic sex from comfort and affection (different than a Madonna/whore complex) and it will sort out after another ten or twenty times.
Let's find out.
6 foot fence / 12 strawberries / no real answer to the farmer
iNvester / Denier / Idealist
Met this girl in a library a while back. She was wearing a velvet blazer. A couple weeks ago we went to a loud music lounge after a nap and sat on a couch watching the DJ. She cuddled in to me and always holds my arm when we walk.
Is this evil?
Me: It's super cozy inside looking out at the snow. Feels very at ease like a carryover comfort from cuddling this morning.
Her: I guess it is a cozy day. Just makes me wish I could still be snuggling up with you.
Me [four hours later]: [std results photo]
Me: It would have been nice to stay in bed this morning. I enjoy even comfortable silences laying there with you.
Her: Trying to get sex on my mind huh? And it really would have been. [she picked up chase frames from me]
Her: There would have been more time to get frisky.
Her: Plus I do just love being by your side
So last night she came and napped again ("I love that you want me on another adventure and I would love to see you later. What time are you thinking?"). We went out and scouted four venues. Thursday, extreme cold weather.
Venue 1 free night was an early hours event we arrived in the last half hour for. It was dead through the window.
Venue 2 free night outskirt dive bar had an old neighborhood crowd playing pool. Didn't stay, but these are good to check because certain ones have the live rock crowd, and that sort of scene often hosts dance nights with eclectic music.
Venue 3 free night, different lounge than last time. She got a sparkling water and we sat on a couch watching the DJ. She put both legs over my one leg, so I'm flat back on the couch and she's turned into me. I have her kiss my neck a ton of times and we chat about her odd times going out, pickup lines, etc. She said an ideal line on her would be a comment on her outfit. Curious if direct genuine compliment openers are ever a good idea in a club if it's an investor who needs focused attention. Guessing most girls out would be testers. Note investors also test... it seems more about entertaining suitors in either series or parallel.
We watch this sexy latina girl in a full mesh bodysuit dancing sensually, and a cute group of chill girls with one twerking, hands on the floor sometimes, etc., a few other girls there with a guy each, various guys, a few gay guys dancing. Observed one approach on the latina and her friend. Guy and wing, looked like social connection, but maybe that's just an illusion of a natural approach, as one introduced the other. Obvious observation though is don't lean in! Got some drive-thru fries after.
Venue 4 free night, larger open concept club. Heavy bass. Same deal couch along the wall, her legs over mine. Had her kiss my neck a lot. She likes to rub my back and stare.
Back home, she apparently packed this lingerie suit and changed into it. She also brings extra panties and said in the past she was resistant to fingering because she didn't want her panties to get all wet. She ends up interrupting foreplay with asking me if she's going to have to go months without seeing me regularly and is trying to get me to pin down a number like will I see her every three weeks, or every two, etc. It's a major turnoff and makes me soft... and she can typically arouse me instantly. I give her a very warm reiteration of all the warnings against me I have been clear on before. She completely killed the vibe and despite a light nap with her earlier (can rarely get deep sleep with someone there) I had been up since 5:30am and it was now like 3am. So I slept.
In the morning she still laid naked on top of me, like every inch of skin. Similar resistance. I essentially freeze her out eventually in a warm way, but start getting ready for the day. When I come out of the bathroom she asks me to put it in her. She ends up talking again and it's clear she has some sort of psychological barrier towards sex from being a bad boy chasing hopeful romantic. Again boner killer.
Franco's classification would likely be Low Drive, Low Self Esteem. He'd say run.
Her [before arriving]: Ok. Leaving now and will be there in [##] minutes.
Her [once back home]: I hope I do get to have sex with you soon.
Me: I know. Eat something hearty [she's underweight and trying to gain]
Her: I'm just worried I missed my only chance. I do trust you and I do want to be with you in that way. Also, I will
Her: Do you still want that with me?
@Chase post yesterday:
The men who are most damaged by the player lifestyle are the ones who are hungry for love.
These guys go through the same cycle every time (I have seen it many times):
They get heartbroken by some girl they thought was their ‘true love’
They get into the game to never end up heartbroken again
Then they start trying to build ‘love connections’ with many of the women they hook up with
It totally fries their ability to feel the feelings they so want to feel
They then become disillusioned because they can no longer feel the feelings
(Often at this point they totally flip, start demanding younger men not hook up, say that it is the wrong path, become religious, “don’t do as I did, my son”, renounce their old ways, turn voluntarily celibate, etc.)
I’m going to give it to you frank:
If you are the ‘hungry for love’ type, you probably should NOT be a player.
But then again, the ‘hungry for love’ types seem to often have problems, no matter what they do:
If they don’t become players, they end up falling for wrong girl after wrong girl, having their hearts broken again and again
If they do become players, they end up burning through connection after connection until they become numb and they can’t feel the love feelings anymore
The fact is when a guy is hungry for love, he runs into the wrong situations with the wrong women pretty much no matter which path he selects.
The REAL solution is for the guy in question to fix whatever internal issues he is dealing with that have made him ‘hungry for love’ in the first place.
Parental neglect, etc. He needs to sort that.
No woman is ever going to be a substitute for the mother’s love such men are truly seeking.
No woman will ever love her lover the way she will love her son.
If you are not the ‘hungry for love’ type, you can be a player, then stop being a player, and there is not really any kind of lasting negative effect. I know a bunch of former players who are happily married with a bunch of kids (we’re talking dudes with triple digit notch counts, now with 4+ kids and a white picket fence).
But the guys who are hungry for love, their real burning question is not “to be or not to be a player?” but rather “am I going to fix this love hunger issue I have or will I forever chase emotions until heartbreak or overuse has numbed me?”
These guys go through the same cycle every time (I have seen it many times):
They get heartbroken by some girl they thought was their ‘true love’ They get into the game to never end up heartbroken again Then they start trying to build ‘love connections’ with many of the women they hook up with It totally fries their ability to feel the feelings they so want to feel They then become disillusioned because they can no longer feel the feelings(Often at this point they totally flip, start demanding younger men not hook up, say that it is the wrong path, become religious, “don’t do as I did, my son”, renounce their old ways, turn voluntarily celibate, etc.)
I’m going to give it to you frank:
If you are the ‘hungry for love’ type, you probably should NOT be a player.
But then again, the ‘hungry for love’ types seem to often have problems, no matter what they do:
If they don’t become players, they end up falling for wrong girl after wrong girl, having their hearts broken again and again If they do become players, they end up burning through connection after connection until they become numb and they can’t feel the love feelings anymoreThe fact is when a guy is hungry for love, he runs into the wrong situations with the wrong women pretty much no matter which path he selects.
The REAL solution is for the guy in question to fix whatever internal issues he is dealing with that have made him ‘hungry for love’ in the first place.
Parental neglect, etc. He needs to sort that.
No woman is ever going to be a substitute for the mother’s love such men are truly seeking.
No woman will ever love her lover the way she will love her son.
If you are not the ‘hungry for love’ type, you can be a player, then stop being a player, and there is not really any kind of lasting negative effect. I know a bunch of former players who are happily married with a bunch of kids (we’re talking dudes with triple digit notch counts, now with 4+ kids and a white picket fence).
But the guys who are hungry for love, their real burning question is not “to be or not to be a player?” but rather “am I going to fix this love hunger issue I have or will I forever chase emotions until heartbreak or overuse has numbed me?”
Like expressed in 60 Years of Challenge's Relationship Roulette, it is important to examine your need for affection. I have a great relationship with family. Despite exploring how enjoyable milf logistics can be, I am pretty certain my head's on straight in that area too. But I do have an extreme liking for skin to skin. Part of it is also knowing how strong of a retention technique it can be. Sounds clinical, but most girls seem to really crave and specifically ask for it once they've been held.
Not sure if the warning is about burning out the chemical ability to pair bond, or maybe desensitization from girls exhibiting attachment.
Another Chase post yesterday:
It’s okay to have double standards in your love life.
Double standards exist because the sexes are not the same.
As far as past promiscuity goes, when it has been studied, it “accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r2 = .45) [for women] as it did for males (r2 = .25).”
It is simply easier for a man with a promiscuous past to settle into the “settled family man” role, and that role is much more likely to stick for him, than it is for a woman with a promiscuous past to settle into the “settled homemaker” role and stick with it.
Part of the reason for that is that a one-night stand or a casual fling does not set off the pair-bonding mechanisms in a man’s brain the way it does in a woman’s brain. The neurochemistry is different:
Female pair-bonding is driven by OXYTOCIN, which releases through skin-to-skin contact, and especially through sex and orgasm. Even just hooking up with a man once can kick off pair-bonding for her.
Male pair-bonding is driven by VASOPRESSIN, which releases through trust-building and shared challenges. Men do not start pair-bonding until they begin to trust a woman and overcome things with her. While that is possible to happen quickly, most guys who are just hooking up with girls don’t build a lot of trust with them or overcome any real challenges with them first, so the pair-bonding mechanism isn’t getting switched on and off during most flings.
(This is different for the men who have lots of brief-but-impassioned romances with girl after girl; the tempestuous types of men. These guys do a lot of pair-bonding and burn through their pair-bond ability over time.)
Anyway: there are men who are fine and comfortable entering settled relationships with promiscuous women.
I know guys like this. They even prefer promiscuous women.
Generally, they are into swinging, open relationships/marriages, or other unconventional setups.
However, if a settled relationship with a promiscuous woman, who is, simply put, not as much inclined toward “forever fidelity”, is not something you want or are comfortable with, don’t feel like you have to wife up the promiscuous girl because “people on the Internet said it’s misogyny if you don’t.”
Double standards exist because the sexes are not the same.
As far as past promiscuity goes, when it has been studied, it “accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r2 = .45) [for women] as it did for males (r2 = .25).”
It is simply easier for a man with a promiscuous past to settle into the “settled family man” role, and that role is much more likely to stick for him, than it is for a woman with a promiscuous past to settle into the “settled homemaker” role and stick with it.
Part of the reason for that is that a one-night stand or a casual fling does not set off the pair-bonding mechanisms in a man’s brain the way it does in a woman’s brain. The neurochemistry is different:
Female pair-bonding is driven by OXYTOCIN, which releases through skin-to-skin contact, and especially through sex and orgasm. Even just hooking up with a man once can kick off pair-bonding for her. Male pair-bonding is driven by VASOPRESSIN, which releases through trust-building and shared challenges. Men do not start pair-bonding until they begin to trust a woman and overcome things with her. While that is possible to happen quickly, most guys who are just hooking up with girls don’t build a lot of trust with them or overcome any real challenges with them first, so the pair-bonding mechanism isn’t getting switched on and off during most flings.(This is different for the men who have lots of brief-but-impassioned romances with girl after girl; the tempestuous types of men. These guys do a lot of pair-bonding and burn through their pair-bond ability over time.)
Anyway: there are men who are fine and comfortable entering settled relationships with promiscuous women.
I know guys like this. They even prefer promiscuous women.
Generally, they are into swinging, open relationships/marriages, or other unconventional setups.
However, if a settled relationship with a promiscuous woman, who is, simply put, not as much inclined toward “forever fidelity”, is not something you want or are comfortable with, don’t feel like you have to wife up the promiscuous girl because “people on the Internet said it’s misogyny if you don’t.”
Most interesting point here is the oxytocin / vasopressin gender difference for pair bonding. Past post said it evolved man-to-man??? Trust-building and shared challenges makes sense. Curious how the first post above is impacted by cuddling tendencies for men if vasopressin is the pair bond affecter. Maybe LMR is a shared challenge and also consistent with sunken cost effect.
I don't always know how to do things differently. Like am I supposed to make a girl like me less... or not engage with the ones that are more passionate, and instead focus on a "one time only" strategy. Or it could simply be a Cluster B consideration. Maybe I am still decoupling animalistic sex from comfort and affection (different than a Madonna/whore complex) and it will sort out after another ten or twenty times.
Let's find out.
