LR Poetic Injustice

Bacchus

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
470
Flash-back to summer time. I was out with my wing-man Robin, as well as @K__ and @Grand Pooba, who were visiting for a few days.

It was just a few minutes before last call. We sauntered through the busiest street. . . in the most chaotic part of the city at this time. The downtown nightlife district. This segment of the city’s party-scene is mostly frequented by university co-eds. Needless to say it’s a vibrant part of town. A slightly-older crowd in their mid-20s can also be found in these venues. Graduates who still craved a taste of that nostalgic student-revelry.

You could see numerous venues crowding each side of the street. And hear the loud music from clubs and bars standing shoulder-to-shoulder.

Large droves of party-goers swarm the side-walks. People walking to another bar or club. Others smoking and chatting outside multiple venues. Drunk idiots arguing with bouncers. And those who decided to call it a night, waiting for their Ubers and trying to hail cabs. Even some cops could be seen. Ready for action if a fight broke out. We decided to spend the rest of the night picking off attractive girls from this crowd.

At this point I remember feeling tired and drained. . . I knew it was only a matter of time before I’d lose my appetite for socialization. So I told myself I would attempt just one more seduction. Looked through the crowd, carefully trying to find the last girl I would approach tonight.

And that’s when I saw her. Recognized her immediately from a magazine I’d seen a while ago. . .

She was tall, slim and smoking hot. A dark haired girl, with latte-colored skin and well-carved cheekbones. . . I could see she had a great body too. Amazing legs, round breasts, not to mention an ass inviting enough to please anyone sensitive to that area. She also happened to be locked in a mildly enthusiastic-looking conversation with two other guys, but I started walking over all the same.

Feeling a bolt of energy flowing through my veins. . . there was no way I was going to pass on an opportunity to sharp-shoot. Without looking at her once. I stand in ear-shot. . . light a cigarette and smoke it with style.

I listen to their ensuing discussion and try to form a plan to jump in, with an intriguing comment then steal the spotlight. Through my periphery vision, I notice her become aware of my presence. She even checks me out a couple times. “Do you know any good clubs around here?” She asks.

“I wish I could help you, all my favorite places closed down. . . shortly after I moved here.” I reply.

“Oh where did you move from?”

“Take a wild guess.”

Eventually told her after playing the guessing game for while. I found it amusing when she made the guys standing with her try and figure it out.

As it turns out. . . we both originate from the same part of West Africa. As she points out this common ground. . . I see the spark of excitement in her hazel-green eyes. Seems like we’re off to a great start with this sharp-shoot.

She follows up by telling me she’s half European, but has always been fascinated with African culture. Then she asks me if I’ve ever paid a visit to the homeland. I decide to use this question to evoke positive emotions with verbal game.

“I’ve been there a few times and. . . it really is fascinating when you think about how many ways travelling can really impact your life positively. Let’s say you take a trip to West Africa someday. While you’re exploring this part of the world, you'll get a chance to discover a deeper part of who you are. Now with me. . . I’d say this discovery allows you grow. As you connect and immerse yourself. . . in the culture of our ancestors.”

“Yeah! Oh my God. . . that’s so cool. I’ve been to Europe before but I’ve always wanted to learn more about the African part of who I am.”

We continue with a stimulating conversation on travelling and connections. The feeling of rapport deepens and the bubble between us grows stronger. It doesn’t take very long for the 3 other guys to move along, heading towards a nearby club and leaving the two of us in isolation.

Now in my seductions. . . I tend to use a lot of hypnotic and poetic sounding verbals.

This allows me to emotionally stimulate women and avoid boring conversations. . . entering a bubble were the two of us can take an exciting journey through an emotionally-charged and imaginative stream of consciousness. If you want to have consistent success in your seductions. . . it's important you to get women feeling powerful emotions. Not only will you reach the hook point often. . . it makes it easy to build compliance moving forward.

On the other hand. . . it's possible to take this process too far too quickly. . . and trigger female-state-control.

So what I usually do to prevent this. . . is use aspects of her personal life to take the boat off the docks. . . and into deeper waters. Most women are a tad narcissistic so there's little motivation to control her own state during a fascinating conversation about herself.

And if I find some common ground I'll use that too since FSC can be prevented with the strong rapport of a connection. Or I could just associate the wonderful feelings of connection with my presence. . . during this seduction I used all 3 just in case.


She mentions something about how a lot of West Africans are bible-thumping religious enthusiasts.

Now that we’re alone. . . I take her comment as an opportunity to steer our conversation towards a sexually-charged SOT. I start by saying I don’t agree with the idea of trying to force religion down people’s throats.

Then I add, “If you think about it. . . those conservative, sexually-repressive ideologies are old-fashioned and misguided. Sex is such a natural thing. . . and judging someone for their sexual expression is an immature way to live. I'd even say those people have decided not to have any fun in this life so they'll try to ruin everybody else’s fun. Misery loves company after all.” This laces our interaction with a non-judgmental frame.

“Yeah I agree, it’s old-fashioned to judge someone for who they choose to love. I guess for Christians, sharing their beliefs with others and converting people to their faith gives life meaning. I don’t agree with their beliefs but sometimes I wonder about the meaning of life, you know?”

At this point in our conversation, I decide to change gears by morphing into wise and philosophically-persuasive Bacchus.

“The way I see it. . . pleasure and passion gives life meaning. Whether it’s feeling the pleasure of personal growth. . . from travelling to new places, or the intense passion of creative expression, or even trusting your judgment enough. . . to lose yourself in this pleasure you feel. . . as you explore the depths of a genuine connection and the passionate spark of chemistry. These are the type of experiences which really give life meaning.” I reply.

“Wow that makes a lot of sense to me! I remember thinking you looked like a creative person. Are you an artist?“ She asks

“Yeah I do a lot of painting and sketching. . . if you can imagine it for a moment. As I take out my pencil. . . paintbrush and start on a new portrait. . . instantly I feel this deep sense of relaxation. It's like the more you paint. . . the more relaxed you feel. Something else worth mentioning is because the passion of creativity gives life meaning. . . I could paint for hours without feeling like I wasted even a second of my day.”

“Yes! I think it’s really cool that you paint. It’s such a pure form of creative expression. I’m a fashion model and a lot of people think it’s just about being pretty but for me it’s much more than that. I feel really good when I’m working because I always try to make art with my photoshoots.”

“And this pleasure you feel, as you elevate your photoshoots towards the realm of visual poetry. . . it fills you with a sense of purpose doesn’t it?”

“Yes it does.”

“This is what I mean by losing yourself in passion and pleasure gives life meaning.”

She lets me know I’m blowing her mind just a little bit. Now that we’re talking about creativity. . . another immersive and emotionally-engaging topic. I let her know I’m also involved in the industry of performing arts. As it turns out our talent agencies rival each other. Which she points out with in a flirtatious tone of voice. She shows me some pictures of her work on her social-media page, and we stand closer together to look at her phone, as we discuss our respective colleagues in the business. . . I even see the magazine cover I recognized her from.

Suddenly a tall, muscular and good-looking man walks up to us. My intuition tells me the odds things could go side-ways are very high.

Not a second later she introduces him as her boyfriend. As she tells him how cool she thinks I am, I decide to completely shift my focus and morph into friendly and non-threatening Bacchus. This part of the interaction was make or break.

I remove any hints in my body-language, that could make him feel insecure, or encourage over-protective behavior with this girl.

Luckily since we’re both two black actors with the goal of making solid progress in the entertainment industry, I find it easy enough for us build rapport using our shared commonalities and I befriended him quickly. And I guess it helped that his girlfriend wanted him to like me.

I turned to face him directly and we talk about the business, discuss some of the work hes done. I complimented his drive for success and we traded some funny audition stories. His girlfriend becomes something of a spectator to our connection-building conversation.

Then I learn that in a few months they plan to move to a larger city, for more acting and modelling job opportunities. I remember thinking about how leaving town permanently was the perfect set up for a discreet one-night-stand. After talking for about 5 minutes or so, her boyfriend leaves us to check on some of their friends at a nearby club. Internally I breathe a sigh of relief. . .

But before I can get a conversation going again. . . a few girls standing in the patio of a bar behind us, start with some giggly banter.

She turns towards them and they do some catching-up. Looks like they were part of the large group she went club-hopping with. I turn my body away from that interaction and throw on a bored look. They offer her a shot of rum, from a bottle they discreetly brought into the bar with them.

After looking at me briefly, she says “fuck it why not” and takes a swig from the bottle.

She gives the bottle back to those girls. Over my shoulder, I ask her if it was strong. . . she said said it was 40 proof. We have some light fluff talk, and she starts facing me again. I knew I had to act fast. . . because closing-time was on the horizon, and her boyfriend was bound to return at some point. So I took the conversation back to the topic of creative expression, with a different goal in mind.

Mentioned how I liked getting other people’s opinions on my work, and seeing my portraits from another person’s perspective. She tells me that’s a great way to refine my craft, and asks if I have any photos of my paintings on my phone.

Told her I don’t because looking at a photo of a portrait isn’t quite the same experience, as seeing it with your own two eyes.

Then I invite her to come to my studio, and have a look at these paintings. She tells me she’d love to because she just feels like I’m very talented. But she wants to get her boyfriend’s permission first. He wasn’t outside at this moment, so we just stood there silently after that.

I can see the internal emotional struggle behind her hazel-green eyes. Because she had a boyfriend, if it wasn’t for all the commonalities I emphasized during our conversation, I probably wouldn’t have even gotten this far before female-state-control kicked in.

But all she needed right now. . . was a nudge in the right direction.

I decide to make use of frame-control to influence her decision-making process by saying, “Remember trusting your judgment and feeling confident in your decision to explore a connection. . . allows you to have these types of experiences which life meaning. What’s more is this. . . seeing my portrait through your eyes. . . the eyes of another creative person, enables us to truly share in this passion of painting.”

“Yes I agree. . . I do really want to see your portraits. I just need to tell my boyfriend where I’m going.” She replies

“I’m sure it’ll be fine. . . you can text him my address. Let’s catch a cab.”

This is a particularly Machiavellian form of persuasion. . . I will be writing a tactical post covering it in more detail later. Just to give you the broad strokes. . . this technique involves the acute awareness of the innate desires of each girl you seduce.

Everyone has traits they desire, experiences they crave or wants to be seen in a certain way. After becoming aware of such a desire. Make use of frame-control to create an opportunity to get what she wants. . . by doing what you want her to do.


Then I start walking down the street towards parked taxi just a few meters away. I don’t look back. . . but I do footsteps following me. Smiled to myself as I see her come to stand beside me in my peripheral vision, while I tell the taxi-driver my address. We hop inside quickly and sit in the back.

Back at my place she reels off the usual compliments on my condo. I reel of the usual humble words of appreciation as I walk into my bedroom.

She follows me inside and I gesture to where I keep a stack of portraits in a box by my bed. We sit together and look at each painting.

She reels off the usual compliments about my artistic talent and tells me this is so much better, than just spending yet another boring weekend club-hopping with her group of friends. Then her hazel-green eyes sparkle with anticipation, as she points out the detailed eyes in these portraits.

“Yes there are a lot of powerful emotions people express in the eyes, the muscles of the face and the lips. . . now with me I think. . . it can be very fulfilling to capture and bring these feelings to life in a portrait.” I say while staring deeply into her eyes. And triangle-gazing seductively at her lips.

I pat the space beside me and tell her to come sit closer. And then she was in my arms. We kiss softly and lightly.

With one hand I sweep aside the pile of portraits off the bed. I wrap my other arm around her perfect figure and lay her down gently. I started with wet kisses on her neck. Then my tongue slid downwards, familiarizing itself with her exposed chest and the base of her breasts.

I escalate about 10 percent slower than she wants. . . to heighten her anticipation and avoid triggering resistance by rushing to sex.

Moved my mouth upwards again, so we could make out passionately and hungrily. I feel her chest rising and falling beneath me as we grind our bodies against each other. It wasn’t until she started tugging at my clothes, that I decided she was ready for the next step.

Took off my striped Brenton top and gripped her waist with both hands. Then I rest my head against her inner thighs for a moment. She breathes deeply as I continue looking at her with bedroom-eyes. Unbuttoned her tight skinny jeans.

She raises that great ass in the air. . . so I can take them off. Kissed inside and around her inner-thighs. Then I peel her panties off her smooth legs with my teeth. . . I eat her pussy until her heavy-breathing progresses past soft purrs. . . into passionately sensual moans.

Then I take her hand. . . and press it against my dick. She starts pulling off my jeans and I quickly grab a condom out from under my pillowcase. Spread her body like a peace-sign and penetrated her quivering loins. Went in and out of her. . . slowly at first.

Then told her to wrap her arms around me. As I gradually picked up the pace. Great sex ensues.

Passionate, animalistic and aesthetically-pleasing. Just the way I like it. . .
 
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Protean

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Nov 18, 2019
Messages
6
Great report. Lots of good stuff here @Bacchus

“I wish I could help you, all my favorite places closed down. . . shortly after I moved here.“ I reply.

“Oh where did you move from?“

“Take a wild guess.“
I love how you make her curious then use that curiosity to get her to invest. I'm stealing that "Take a wild guess" line. At my school girls often ask me what my major is. Since my field of study is associated with more awkward/social stunted guys, I'll normally reply with something like "Just something boring you wouldn't be interested in." and then immediately move the conversation back to her. I think making girls guess for a bit will be better for me.

Now in my seductions. . . I tend to use a lot of hypnotic and poetic sounding verbals.

This allows me to emotionally stimulate women and avoid boring conversations. . . entering a bubble were the two of us can take an exciting journey through an emotionally-charged and imaginative stream of consciousness. If you want to have consistent success in your seductions. . . it's important you to get women feeling powerful emotions. Not only will you reach the hook point often. . . it makes it easy to build compliance moving forward.
I often struggle with emotionally stimulating the women I meet in this way. I tend to be too analytical in my conversations. My deep dives feel like interviews. The only emotions I am able stimulate in women is a sort of faux anger that comes from teasing which I love doing, but seems to not be consistent enough. I'm going to practice adding more emotions with girls.

Suddenly a tall, muscular and good-looking man walks up to us. My intuition tells me the odds things could go side-ways are very high.

Not a second later she introduces him as her boyfriend. As she tells him how cool she thinks I am, I decide to completely shift my focus and morph into friendly and non-threatening Bacchus. This part of the interaction was make or break.

I remove any hints in my body-language, that could make him feel insecure, or encourage over-protective behavior with this girl.

Luckily since we’re both two black actors with the goal of making solid progress in the entertainment industry, I find it easy enough for us build rapport using our shared commonalities and I befriended him quickly. And I guess it helped that his girlfriend wanted him to like me.
You handled the situation well. Not only did you avoid any sort of conflict with the boyfriend, but you managed to keep the seduction going after he left. Girls mentioning their boyfriends tends to throw me off way more than it should so thank you for showing us how its done.

I decide to make use of frame-control to influence her decision-making process by saying, “Remember trusting your judgment and feeling confident in your decision to explore a connection. . . allows you to have these types of experiences which life meaning. What’s more is this. . . seeing my portrait through your eyes. . . the eyes of another creative person, enables us to truly share in this passion of painting.“
This is a particularly Machiavellian form of persuasion. . . I will be writing a tactical post covering it in more detail later. Just to give you the broad strokes. . . this technique involves the acute awareness of the innate desires of each girl you seduce.

Everyone has traits they desire, experiences they crave or wants to be seen in a certain way. After becoming aware of such a desire. Make use of frame-control to create an opportunity to get what she wants. . . by doing what you want her to do.
Looking forward to the article. Whenever I use frame control it's far more direct. For instance I had a date earlier in the semester where I had come off a bit too friendly and platonic. Right before we parted ways I pulled her in, looked into her eyes as if I was about to kiss her, then left. She later texted me talking about how she enjoyed the date but wasn't comfortable with how close I had gotten at the end. She then goes on to say how she knew I wasn't "that type of guy." Only here did I let her know actually I WAS that type of guy and I saw a huge spike in attraction. What's probably happening is that I'm relying on frame control to compensate for not being sexy enough now that I think about it so its not really a frame control issue as much as it is a vibe one. Will still give that article a read though.

I escalate about 10 percent slower than she wants. . . to heighten her anticipation and avoid triggering resistance by rushing to sex.
Sounds like you avoided LMR with this. Nice

Thanks for your reports and all the content you put out on girlschase man. I always learn a ton.

Protean
 

Watts

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
79
Large droves of party-goers swarm the side-walks. People walking to another bar or club. Others smoking and chatting outside multiple venues. Drunk idiots arguing with bouncers. And those who decided to call it a night, waiting for their Ubers and trying to hail cabs. Even some cops could be seen. Ready for action if fight broke out. We decided to spend the rest of the night picking off attractive girls from this crowd.
I just wanted to point out this element of your storytelling. Both the setup and pacing, and the descriptive words. Saying there are people swarming the sidewalks is better than "there were a lot of people on the side walks" or "it was crowded".

It reminded me of a passage from a book I read not too long ago, Dialogue by Robert Mckee (who also wrote the storytelling bible, "Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting"), where he states that describing how an attractive woman walked could be done by saying "she walked like a model" or "she moved like a slow, hot song". The latter really creates a vivid image in the reader's (or listener's) mind.

Then I add, “If you think about it. . . those conservative, sexually-repressive ideologies are old-fashioned and misguided. Sex is such a natural thing. . . and judging someone for their sexual expression is an immature way to live. I'd even say those people have decided not to have any fun in this life so they'll try to ruin everybody else’s fun. Misery loves company after all.“ This laces our interaction with a non-judgmental frame.

“Yeah I agree, it’s old-fashioned to judge someone for who they choose to love. I guess for Christians, sharing their beliefs with others and converting people to their faith gives life meaning. I don’t agree with their beliefs but sometimes I wonder about the meaning of life, you know?“
It's interesting to note that the way you brought up the sexual topic, left it open for her to escalate or just vibe. So she could have said something blatant "I agree. I love to fuck. And I don't care who knows it!!!", or more subtly something more about wanting to enjoy her sex life without judgment, or find love or passion etc.

Instead she pivots to gay rights essentially, and in a nice, empathetic way, tries to relate to the good side of Christian motivation. For comfort I'd actually like to call that out and praise her for it, contrasting it with how "cancel culture" always assumes the worst motivation in others, and being charitable in how you view people is essential to healthy human relationships.

But I of course also like how you stayed on a seduction oriented topic afterwards.

At this point in our conversation, I decide to change gears by morphing into wise and philosophically-persuasive Bacchus.

“The way I see it. . . pleasure and passion gives life meaning. Whether it’s feeling the pleasure of personal growth. . . from travelling to new places, or the intense passion of creative expression, or even trusting your judgment enough. . . to lose yourself in this pleasure you feel. . . as you explore the depths of a genuine connection and the passionate spark of chemistry. These are the type of experiences which really give life meaning.“ I reply.
I like it. And by the way, have you read the book "Flow"? The concept of "Losing yourself" to achieve optimal experience is called just that in positive psychology. You might like it.


“Yes! I think it’s really cool that you paint. It’s such a pure form of creative expression. I’m a fashion model and a lot of people think it’s just about being pretty but for me it’s much more than that. I feel really good when I’m working because I always try to make art with my photoshoots.“
This reminds me of a while ago, where I SNL'ed an ex-professional cheerleader and clothes model (they would design clothes around her body, so her body was the live example for a line of brides dresses, for instance). She volunteered, after we had already slept together, how other people think her job isn't hard, since she basically stands in place and lets the designers measure around her body. But she said how it was actually very difficult to stand in place for hours (I think I then related, that she also can't gain or lose much weight, and that must be difficult). It was interesting how she was a little defensive about it (certainly not coming from me, I was happy she looked the way she did). And, to probably add to it, she was making six figures doing it.

This is probably a common occurrence with beautiful women who make money of their looks. A LOT of jealously from other women, leading to a lot of shade form other women, and the girls becoming defensive. One thing I will add, next time I'm in that situation, is how people from the outside usually just see what they lack. Like I could say being "The Rock" is easy, just get really buff (extremely hard to reach his level there anyway), and forget his comedic talent, acting ability, state control etc. Similarly, people think they can be millionaire investors if they just got 300,000 from a parent as seed money, not accounting for how many people fail, make bad investments etc. I think there is potential there.

Another way I'll relate to very beautiful women is I'll talk about how they almost can't hang out with unattractive girls because of the jealously, and how as a (fairly) successful guy I feel the same way about people not doing as well financially (nice little DHV in there). I wonder if there are other ways you have people being jealous of you in your life, Bacchus, that you could use to relate to their experience.

Also, don't read any of that as me suggesting you pivot there. I like your efficient and direct seduction. I'm just throwing out some connections I'm making about useful ideas for comfort (when appropriate) and the experience of beautiful women.

Not a second later she introduces him as her boyfriend. As she tells him how cool she thinks I am, I decide to completely shift my focus and morph into friendly and non-threatening Bacchus. This part of the interaction was make or break.

I remove any hints in my body-language, that could make him feel insecure, or encourage over-protective behavior with this girl.
Going from sexual threat to chode back to sexual threat again is an underrated skill. I've done the same thing in an SNL years ago with a girl and her friends when they went to the bathroom. When they left, I dialed it up, when they came back, I was "Mr. Nice Guy" haha.

But before I can get a conversation going again. . . a few girls standing in the patio of a bar behind us, start with some giggly banter.

She turns towards them and they do some catching-up. Looks like they were part of the large group she went club-hopping with. I turn my body away from that interaction and throw on a bored look. They offer her a shot of rum, from a bottle they discreetly brought into the bar with them.
I'd like to know more about this. How much disinterest you showed exactly and how. I like it, and I think it's something I don't do well enough, calculated disinterest when a girl is doing something counter to the seduction. It's partially because I have an overall very happy and friendly disposition, so I actually don't get bothered by much. But I could I have some room for improvement here.

I decide to make use of frame-control to influence her decision-making process by saying, “Remember trusting your judgment and feeling confident in your decision to explore a connection. . . allows you to have these types of experiences which life meaning. What’s more is this. . . seeing my portrait through your eyes. . . the eyes of another creative person, enables us to truly share in this passion of painting.“

“Yes I agree. . . I do really want to see your portraits. I just need to tell my boyfriend where I’m going.“ She replies

“I’m sure it’ll be fine. . . you can text him my address. Let’s catch a cab.“

This is a particularly Machiavellian form of persuasion. . . I will be writing a tactical post covering it in more detail later. Just to give you the broad strokes. . . this technique involves the acute awareness of the innate desires of each girl you seduce.

Everyone has traits they desire, experiences they crave or wants to be seen in a certain way. After becoming aware of such a desire. Make use of frame-control to create an opportunity to get what she wants. . . by doing what you want her to do.
I appreciate this detailed application of persuasive techniques. I'm familiar with the concepts, but this was particularly well done and explained.

“Yes there are a lot of powerful emotions people express in the eyes, the muscles of the face and the lips. . . now with me I think. . . it can be very fulfilling to capture and bring these feelings to life in a portrait.“ I say while staring deeply into her eyes. And triangle-gazing seductively at her lips.
I know I'm throwing out a lot of books, but there is a biography about Leonardo Da Vinci you might like, by Walter Isaacson. The reason is this is one part of what Leo did with all his dissections of the body, learning to display the hidden inner life of people better, hence the haunting expression of the Mona Lisa. He also made many discoveries, for instance, you can purse your bottom lip independently of your top lip, but not your top independent of your bottom. It's because a of the way a muscle on the inside of your cheek connects the two.

Also, as an artist, you might appreciate Leo's process.

So overall I was impressed. You post quality content, as always. Thank you. I like the particularly amoral way you setup the one night stand knowing about her boyfriend, haha. I also agree the boyfriend relationship is nonsense and don't give it much weight (marriage, and in particular shared children, a whole other story in my opinion).

One thing I saw was a lot of really good breakdowns of your speech, but would you consider making recordings demonstrating them? EDIT: (I just saw somewhere else you were on the Chase Podcast. I'll give those a listen first.) I for one would like to hear your delivery. Also, is it safe to assume you are in low noise venues or areas when you are delivering them? And, do you do anything in particular to make yourself heard while using these detailed verbals?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Watts

Modern Human
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Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
79
You handled the situation well. Not only did you avoid any sort of conflict with the boyfriend, but you managed to keep the seduction going after he left. Girls mentioning their boyfriends tends to throw me off way more than it should so thank you for showing us how its done.
Girls mentioning their boyfriends is different than him physically being there. Actually, I think it's really the opposite of what happened here, in other works DON'T dial down the sexual intent just because her boyfriend is brought up, only do so if he is there and able to observe (or if her friends are watching).

Personally I like to ask girls if they are happy. And then I pounce on any hesitation, or in some cases, straight up disclosure (A girl saying said she had been cheated on, but still with him. Or that he was more into her than she was into him etc.).

Also, as an example from last night, I met a girl who said she was in a "sorta relationship" or something like that, and I teased her by saying that she was in relationship and the guy was acting single. Like she wants to be in a relationship and acts like it, while he fucks other girls and texts her at 2AM if he hasn't found anyone that night, lol.

I also used that as the reason to number close her, since she explained he was there somewhere, but she didn't know where. I told her to give it to me "in case we had to separate quickly".

Looking forward to the article. Whenever I use frame control it's far more direct. For instance I had a date earlier in the semester where I had come off a bit too friendly and platonic. Right before we parted ways I pulled her in, looked into her eyes as if I was about to kiss her, then left. She later texted me talking about how she enjoyed the date but wasn't comfortable with how close I had gotten at the end. She then goes on to say how she knew I wasn't "that type of guy." Only here did I let her know actually I WAS that type of guy and I saw a huge spike in attraction. What's probably happening is that I'm relying on frame control to compensate for not being sexy enough now that I think about it so its not really a frame control issue as much as it is a vibe one. Will still give that article a read though.
So it seems to me like you're saying you don't pull off the escalation in the moment and then try to play catch up after the fact. I've been there. One thing I would suggest is to actually intentionally make moves you would consider bold, while also being vigilant watching for her reaction. If she doesn't go for it, call it out, even "Was that too bold" or "Was that too aggressive" and if she says yes, then say "Ok, thanks for telling me, I'll dial it down a bit. I appreciate you being honest with me".

So it actually builds a good rapport and shows you can be trusted to stop if she says NO or slow down, while still letting you push stuff forward (and get the proper response and credit for that). In some sense claiming to be bold over text when being reserved in person is something that will trigger a negative reaction (one way to read what you said, not sure what "that type of guy" meant, can you clarify?).

And, you can consider a slight overshoot with readiness to make a correction an intermediate step, since at some point you shouldn't do a little too little, or a little too much, but just the right amount (theoretically).
 

Protean

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Nov 18, 2019
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Hey @Watts I appreciate your comments.

Girls mentioning their boyfriends is different than him physically being there. Actually, I think it's really the opposite of what happened here, in other works DON'T dial down the sexual intent just because her boyfriend is brought up, only do so if he is there and able to observe (or if her friends are watching).
You're 100% correct. There is a difference between how you behave when girl mentions her boyfriend and when her boyfriend is actually there. When was talking about how smoothly @Bacchus handled the situation without dropping the ball like I would have. Girls must see the flash of annoyance/disappointment on my face whenever a boyfriend comes up and I lose a lot of attraction as a result. Bottom line, dialing up the sexiness is what I need to focus on the most so thanks for advice.

So it seems to me like you're saying you don't pull off the escalation in the moment and then try to play catch up after the fact. I've been there. One thing I would suggest is to actually intentionally make moves you would consider bold, while also being vigilant watching for her reaction. If she doesn't go for it, call it out, even "Was that too bold" or "Was that too aggressive" and if she says yes, then say "Ok, thanks for telling me, I'll dial it down a bit. I appreciate you being honest with me".
Yeah playing catch up is a great way of putting it. I'll try the bold move thing out right away thanks.

In some sense claiming to be bold over text when being reserved in person is something that will trigger a negative reaction (one way to read what you said, not sure what "that type of guy" meant, can you clarify?).
By "that type of guy" she basically was trying to frame me as a safe guy who wouldn't dare try to sleep with her on the first date. I made sure not to submit to that frame over text Even though things worked out in this case, I have been burned in the past by being bold over text while being more safe in person. My problem is that I tend to not want to ruin an interaction by being too bold when I'm not sure a girl is sold on me yet. However, when I'm sure there's attraction, I throw caution into the wind and make my moves with full confidence. Its a weird dichotomy.

Protean
 

onespiritualpitcher

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@Bacchus -> amazing dude! I love how you write in such a descriptive and compelling way. So many things to learn from in this LR alone, with regard to seduction, writing, and storytelling!

A question: how did you leave things with her? Like is it going to be a ONS without seeing her again or did you explicitly/indirectly communicate that this could be a tryst that continues on another night?
 

Bacchus

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Great report. Lots of good stuff here @Bacchus

I love how you make her curious then use that curiosity to get her to invest. I'm stealing that "Take a wild guess" line. At my school girls often ask me what my major is. Since my field of study is associated with more awkward/social stunted guys, I'll normally reply with something like "Just something boring you wouldn't be interested in." and then immediately move the conversation back to her. I think making girls guess for a bit will be better for me.
I often struggle with emotionally stimulating the women I meet in this way. I tend to be too analytical in my conversations. My deep dives feel like interviews. The only emotions I am able stimulate in women is a sort of faux anger that comes from teasing which I love doing, but seems to not be consistent enough. I'm going to practice adding more emotions with girls.
Thanks for the props Protean. And yeah feel free to use that line. . .

Nice catch on the intriguing comments too. . . I must say they're a pretty versatile tool because just about anyone can get curious. . . even neutral or mildly disinterested girls. And as you note sparking her curiosity, then making her guess puts her on the fast-track towards investment. You might want to consider making a girl guess your major once. . . or twice then say something like "I'm not one of those guys who defines themselves with with their chosen major. But have you ever noticed how the personality of a professor. . . can make each lecture a completely different experience?"

I've asked girls the above question, during campus day game a number of times. No disappointments so far. . .

It's not uncommon for girls to start talking about experiences they've had in various lectures. This makes it very easy to get good rapport going early on. We might crack a couple jokes. . . at the expense of the boring professors. Before changing gears and talking about how the rare few who speak in a fascinating way, can actually motivate you by presenting a chance to really connect with the learning experience.

Making this detour allows me to turn things hypnotic. . . by discussing different types of connections.

Or maybe you'd prefer simpler ways to get the hang of emotional stimulation. You can start making use of cold reads and future-projections in your conversations. These tactics will shift your interactions away from interview-mode, as you practice painting a poetic picture with verbal game.
 
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Watts

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You're 100% correct. There is a difference between how you behave when girl mentions her boyfriend and when her boyfriend is actually there. When was talking about how smoothly @Bacchus handled the situation without dropping the ball like I would have. Girls must see the flash of annoyance/disappointment on my face whenever a boyfriend comes up and I lose a lot of attraction as a result. Bottom line, dialing up the sexiness is what I need to focus on the most so thanks for advice.
I know what you mean, and both in the sense that I anticipate a negative answer, and I've learned to slow my emotions down, I "steel myself" for that, or in a sense freeze up my face while she says whether she is single.

It's similar to the concept of "masking" in emotional displays. That is, people will adopt a smile over what is considered an emotion that is unacceptable to show in public, whether it be sadness, disgust etc. And that is culture specific, so Japanese while watching a horror movie will start to show disgust, then it will morph into this disgust/smile because they don't want to display that in public, while Americans will just show it. Paul Eckman, and Emotions Revealed is a a good source for this.

Also, if you don't already meditate, you should start. It teaches you to slow down your emotional reactions and to sense them before they take hold (of your face, thoughts, state etc.)>

And, here's a practical thing you can use. Definitely if she says she's in a "sorta relationship" or something to that effect, but just for fun, and experience, also try it with a girl with a boyfriend. Say "So you mean you're in a relationship, but your boyfriend is single? Like you act like you're in a relationship and he acts like he's single?". Make sure the delivery is light, it's a joke. But the tease does go to something deeper about women's anxiety in dating, sex without commitment, and many times girls are stuck in this "fuckzone" the way guys get stuck in the "friendzone".

By "that type of guy" she basically was trying to frame me as a safe guy who wouldn't dare try to sleep with her on the first date. I made sure not to submit to that frame over text Even though things worked out in this case, I have been burned in the past by being bold over text while being more safe in person. My problem is that I tend to not want to ruin an interaction by being too bold when I'm not sure a girl is sold on me yet. However, when I'm sure there's attraction, I throw caution into the wind and make my moves with full confidence. Its a weird dichotomy.
OK, so it was the meaning she was after. Thanks for clarifying.

Did you use that time to display a more non-judgmental, liberating and pleasure seeking frame around sex? Also, included in that perhaps some passion seeking, romance, and relationships arising out of two people who choose to assume the best intentions in the other and to act in good faith?

The reason I say this is because it seems that was a negative beta type frame she's placing you in, which is a deeper and deeper hole for you (unless you're cool with spending a huge amount of time courting her, while you wait for your turn in a line of betas (which may never come) while she still fucks alphas for fast casual sex!). - I doubt I'm telling you anything new with that.

But it's interesting to note how the beta/alpha dynamic in girl's minds in some ways mirrors the madonna/whore complex that Freud identified in men.

The madonna/whore complex, defined as the "inability to maintain sexual arousal in a committed relationship" is derived from seeing one group of women as "whores" capable of every depravity, and another group as "madonnas" worthy of love, commitment and having children with. So while you a guy might marry his madonna, either she won't or he wouldn't have her give him a blowjob, "she kisses my children with that mouth" (credit: The Sopranos. Also a good example with wife/mistress dynamic), while him and his friend double team one of their whores, lol! This is do to repressive social norms (Freud was reacting to Victorian times), where sex is hidden away in this dark recess of the human psyche, so it's hard for both men and women to accept their sexuality and the sexuality of others, and integrate it into healthy relationships.

So back to her and beta/alpha and what it means. In some sense, the female form of madonna/whore is alpha/beta, and it would behave similarly. Alpha's are "sex guys", betas are "commitment guys", and similar to the madonna/whore, the girl may not even be capable of sexual arousal with the beta guy, think about that. All this talk about guys not making a girl cum, and it could just be that the girl, in their own head, has decided he's not sexual, but because she has this false dichotomy she is trying to maintain, and because she is convinced he is not a sexual guy (or that his sexuality would be inappropriate or disgusting), she CAN'T enjoy sex with him! lol! Sounds like something a therapist would need to resolve!

But that's just me riffing on psychology. (I'm sure this is basics for many people, but here it is) The important point is that girls (and people in general) will be attempting to put you in a box (objectifying you), and that it's generally for neither your or their benefit that they do so, despite what they might think otherwise. Also, it's much easier to be accepted as a sex guy who then commits to a relationship than the opposite. Perhaps this has to do with sex happening in a more primal and thus regulated place, or that accepting that has a higher barrier to entry and having done it the personality dimensions are much easier to incorporate in her mental model of you.
 

Watts

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Nice catch on the intriguing comments too. . . I must say they're a pretty versatile tool because just about anyone can get curious. . . even neutral or mildly disinterested girls. And as you note sparking her curiosity, then making her guess puts her on the fast-track towards investment. You might want to consider making a girl guess your major once. . . or twice then say something like "I'm not one of those guys who defines themselves with with their chosen major. But have you ever noticed how the personality of a professor. . . can make each lecture a completely different experience?"
This is hilarious. I'm going to try a variation of this, I know I can do it on age, which is a common one for guessing. I'm going to have to think about some bait or other common ones.

With a particularly quick witted or smart girl, she might respond "Why did you make me guess then?" (Which is also how I'd probably respond to a girl in the reverse scenario), to which I'd respond "I wanted you to reveal how you perceived me, without you knowing it... you see people are never really honest about how they view others... it's always wrapped up in politeness or what they want from someone else... it can be so frustrating... sometimes you just wish people would have the courage to be more honest."

I've asked girls the above question, during campus day game a number of times. No disappointments so far. . .
Can you go into specifics on your campus daygame? If there's already a post on it I'll look at that (the search bar was coming up with an error).

For instance what are some good spots you look for when scouting out a new campus? And how do you avoid setting off issues with campus security, and do you completely avoid the restricted areas etc. I'm assuming you don't go to the school you're talking about, but maybe you do.
 

Bacchus

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Hey Watts. . .

Your analysis of this interaction was spot on. Thank you for the props, and for the books you recommended. Added them to my reading list to ruminate over in the cold near-future with a warm cup of green tea. . .

It's interesting to note that the way you brought up the sexual topic, left it open for her to escalate or just vibe. So she could have said something blatant "I agree. I love to fuck. And I don't care who knows it!!!", or more subtly something more about wanting to enjoy her sex life without judgment, or find love or passion etc.

Instead she pivots to gay rights essentially, and in a nice, empathetic way, tries to relate to the good side of Christian motivation. For comfort I'd actually like to call that out and praise her for it, contrasting it with how "cancel culture" always assumes the worst motivation in others, and being charitable in how you view people is essential to healthy human relationships.

But I of course also like how you stayed on a seduction oriented topic afterwards.
Very perceptive and yes I agree. . . in that moment complimenting her empathetic perspective would be a solid move. As you already know. . . being able to listen and adjust while seducing women is an immensely powerful skill. Especially in these scenarios because of the potential impact of sexual topics to an ensuing seduction. She might offer a point-of-view worthy of praise. Or maybe we have to adjust by presenting her with a different perspective. Sometimes it can even lead towards a deeper understanding of the inner workings of her mind. . .

Once she mentioned a curiosity about the meaning of life. . . I realized she was sharing a personal desire.

Something of a driving force which I suspected already motivated her actions. The main reason I kept the conversation in the SOT realm was so I could tap into that motivation. To put things in the perspective of our visual male sexuality. . . a man who tailor's his game at high levels of precision is like a woman with an ability to shape-shift into the image of your dream-fuck. After reading into your desires and calibrating accordingly. . .

I'd like to know more about this. How much disinterest you showed exactly and how. I like it, and I think it's something I don't do well enough, calculated disinterest when a girl is doing something counter to the seduction. It's partially because I have an overall very happy and friendly disposition, so I actually don't get bothered by much. But I could I have some room for improvement here.
After she turned her body to face the girls behind us fully. . . I did a half-turn and observed their interaction briefly with a warm smile. Then I changed my facial expression into the bored look. As I slowly and gradually turned my body back to it's original position.

The goal was to give the impression that their interaction, wasn't interesting enough to prevent me from getting distracted. I also decided to light another cigarette. . . because turning my body away from a girl can look a tad forced. When I turned my head slightly to re-engage. . . I still looked bored and continued talking to her with a nonchalant vibe for a few more moments.

One thing I saw was a lot of really good breakdowns of your speech, but would you consider making recordings demonstrating them? EDIT: (I just saw somewhere else you were on the Chase Podcast. I'll give those a listen first.) I for one would like to hear your delivery. Also, is it safe to assume you are in low noise venues or areas when you are delivering them? And, do you do anything in particular to make yourself heard while using these detailed verbals?
I'll recommend the verbal game podcast since it's made up almost entirely of demos. And yeah quieter venues are the best options for seducing women with the art of conversation. However, I have a habit of purposely speaking quietly in loud venues. If the girl is hooked she'll get closer and lean in. . . so I'm often talking directly into her ears. Later on I'll mention the noise and suggest moving somewhere quieter. . .

With a particularly quick witted or smart girl, she might respond "Why did you make me guess then?" (Which is also how I'd probably respond to a girl in the reverse scenario), to which I'd respond "I wanted you to reveal how you perceived me, without you knowing it... you see people are never really honest about how they view others... it's always wrapped up in politeness or what they want from someone else... it can be so frustrating... sometimes you just wish people would have the courage to be more honest."
This is an interesting theme to pace her reality. . . I'd be curious to hear where the conversation goes from there. Reminds me of a similar exchange in the movie Carnal Knowledge. Jack Nicholson's character is phenomenal in his role as a smooth charmer.

Can you go into specifics on your campus daygame? If there's already a post on it I'll look at that (the search bar was coming up with an error).

For instance what are some good spots you look for when scouting out a new campus? And how do you avoid setting off issues with campus security, and do you completely avoid the restricted areas etc. I'm assuming you don't go to the school you're talking about, but maybe you do.
I don't have enough experience with day gaming on campus to write a guide yet. Just started my learning-phase not too long ago. Kicked things off by hypothesizing and then field-testing a consistent hook-strategy. . . the one I shared in my previous post in this thread.
 

Watts

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Your analysis of this interaction was spot on. Thank you for the props, and for the books you recommended. Added them to my reading list to ruminate over in the cold near-future with a warm cup of green tea. . .
Anytime. Happy to!

Also, coming back to a forum I'm feeling excited to make FR's again. I'd appreciate your input once I start posting them.

Very perceptive and yes I agree. . . in that moment complimenting her empathetic perspective would be a solid move. As you already know. . . being able to listen and adjust while seducing women is an immensely powerful skill. Especially in these scenarios because of the potential impact of sexual topics to an ensuing seduction. She might offer a point-of-view worthy of praise. Or maybe we have to adjust by presenting her with a different perspective. Sometimes it can even lead towards a deeper understanding of the inner workings of her mind. . .

Once she mentioned a curiosity about the meaning of life. . . I realized she was sharing a personal desire.
Agree. That was a huge open chasm that you rode all the way down to the deepest recesses of her mind... and body.

...and people don't generally throw around the term "meaning of life" lightly!

Something of a driving force which I suspected already motivated her actions. The main reason I kept the conversation in the SOT realm was so I could tap into that motivation. To put things in the perspective of our visual male sexuality. . . a man who tailor's his game at high levels of precision is like a woman with an ability to shape-shift into the image of your dream-fuck. After reading into your desires and calibrating accordingly. . .
I do love this analogy.

After she turned her body to face the girls behind us fully. . . I did a half-turn and observed their interaction briefly with a warm smile. Then I changed my facial expression into the bored look. As I slowly and gradually turned my body back to it's original position.

The goal was to give the impression that their interaction, wasn't interesting enough to prevent me from getting distracted. I also decided to light another cigarette. . . because turning my body away from a girl can look a tad forced. When I turned my head slightly to re-engage. . . I still looked bored and continued talking to her with a nonchalant vibe for a few more moments.
Thanks for the clarification. It's something I definitely need to think about and incorporate. And doing it in the right dose.

A long time ago, I was with a girl, cute little ex college cheerleader, we were in isolation, had been dancing together, had already kissed and were sitting down together etc. The thing is, she started acting rude, which I didn't get, I felt like I was already further in that interaction. So I actually went to the bathroom, thought about being a bit of an asshole ("how would the type of guy she likes act?"), and when I came back I sat down next to her and just stared straight ahead silently with a blank expression. In short order she started rubbing my thigh, she knew she was losing my attention with her behavior and she wanted it back.

That did wind up being an SNL.

I'll recommend the verbal game podcast since it's made up almost entirely of demos. And yeah quieter venues are the best options for seducing women with the art of conversation. However, I have a habit of purposely speaking quietly in loud venues. If the girl is hooked she'll get closer and lean in. . . so I'm often talking directly into her ears. Later on I'll mention the noise and suggest moving somewhere quieter. . .
Thank you, I like this idea. That's a good two step process to a mini-isolation and then full on isolation in some outside or quiet area (like a smoking section).

Going to listen to these and come back to this. For now I wanted to post my response.

This is an interesting theme to pace her reality. . . I'd be curious to hear where the conversation goes from there. Reminds me of a similar exchange in the movie Carnal Knowledge. Jack Nicholson's character is phenomenal in his role as a smooth charmer.
To me, some beliefs are:

The more honest she is with me the more quickly, the better the experience.

I'm able to be 100% honest right away because I have a pure desire and pure intentions, which include giving her pleasure and passion and being a positive force in her life.

I'm interested in opening a more honest and genuine connection between us, because of the benefits above and because I have nothing to hide.

One of the major things she can't be honest about is her sexuality, because so many people want to use it against her, either shaming her or manipulating her emotions to get at it (without considering her needs or the repercussions from violated expectations)

So I'd say I'd be riffing around those, depending on what she gives me.

In the video, I see this as a smart girl who's "too clever by half" (a great expression from the UK), where she'll talk herself out of doing something she'd otherwise enjoy. Or, as we say on this side of the pond, "overthink". But using an expression like that, from another culture, I like because it grabs attention and probably won't have the same immediate negative implications as overthinking, should I choose to use it in that conversation. Perhaps, she should "think less, and let herself feel more.", like the way we lose ourselves dancing or in other... physically rigorous activities.

I also find that video to be a bit more adversarial than I like, but those types of things tend to be high risk high reward. The tension is so thick you could cut it with a knife. And they both know if they're alone together, their clothes are going to fly off! (And she's seriously considering it, while weighing the potential downsides)

Also, at 0:50 in that video, that's a perfect example of a "Micro Expression", the start of a smile that she quickly hides.

Overall though, looks like a good movie for some seductive behaviors. Worth a watch. Thanks for the recommendation!

And "Jack Nicholson's character is phenomenal in his role as a smooth charmer." Supposedly he's had sex with over a thousand women, and at some point said he was "tired of threesomes", haha. He also had a main girl, the woman who played the female lead in the Adams family for a large portion of this time, while basically acting single the entire time. Also, a few out of wedlock children. So yeah, I'd say he's drawing on experience here! (And I think a lot of actors, when they actually do this in real life, can portray it a lot better in cinema.)

Edit: Another core belief that popped into my head. Putting it into a rough routine, I will have to try it in field:

"There is also a direct correlation between honesty and alignment of interest. So if I'm a cop and you're a criminal, there's very little real expectation of honesty between us, our interests are diametrically opposed. If I'm buying a house and you're selling one, now we have some common interest, to make a deal, and some conflicting interest, I want a low price and you want a high one, so we will be somewhat honest. Similarly if we are strangers vs. if we have been dating for years. And wrapped up in that comes trust for each other and consideration for each other's experience. You're more likely to work through not having an orgasm with a guy you've been seeing for a while than someone you've just met, in which case you might just write it off and let him finish. But wouldn't it be better if you could have the same level of consideration with someone earlier rather than later? Wouldn't the idea be to be able to have open, honest, expressive sexuality from the start instead of it taking months or even years while you're languishing in bed, still having to ask yourself 'am I going to cum this time?' ;) "

I'm open to feedback on some ways to work that, word choice, pauses etc.
 
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Mr.Rob

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Man this whole thing was textbook. Fucking inspiring read here from the way you got her to open you, to meeting the girls boyfriend you're about to bang and get him on your side! Lol pretty ingenious where most guys would be peeing in their pants.

“The way I see it. . . pleasure and passion gives life meaning. Whether it’s feeling the pleasure of personal growth. . . from travelling to new places, or the intense passion of creative expression, or even trusting your judgment enough. . . to lose yourself in this pleasure you feel. . . as you explore the depths of a genuine connection and the passionate spark of chemistry. These are the type of experiences which really give life meaning.” I reply.
I love seeing the SOT stuff in action. Kind of cool how you take a topic that isn't particularly pleasurable (self-development) and spin it into a pleasurable activity as if it were almost hedonistic. I'm not overly hedonistic these days but I do revel in the pleasure of discipline and also art, food, and sex. So that's a cool way to talk about it.

One thing I notice when I read the verbal dialogue of Alek, you, and similar verbal seducers that use the SOT type stuff... well your conversation threads revolve a lot around evoking and talking about emotions and experiences and empowering girls to indulge in their passions. For me (and I'd imagine a lot of guys) this type of conversation can feel like its not going anywhere. There is no linear path. But to women its building emotion and arousal. Its increasing the level of energy you're both connecting on.

“Yes I agree. . . I do really want to see your portraits. I just need to tell my boyfriend where I’m going.” She replies

“I’m sure it’ll be fine. . . you can text him my address. Let’s catch a cab.”
And then you just walk off. Its like your energy is so powerful and contagious it just sucks her in like a vacuum.

Anyway great report. Can't wait to read the next one.

-Rob
 

Bacchus

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@Bacchus -> amazing dude! I love how you write in such a descriptive and compelling way. So many things to learn from in this LR alone, with regard to seduction, writing, and storytelling!
Thanks for the props OSP. . .

A question: how did you leave things with her? Like is it going to be a ONS without seeing her again or did you explicitly/indirectly communicate that this could be a tryst that continues on another night?
Left things as a one night stand. . . I didn't see much point in repeat-business since she was scheduled to leave town. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm biased in favor of ONS for a number of personal reasons. So I'll take almost any excuse to leave things this way. . .

Like when you consider how these types of liminal experiences. . . can create perfect and untarnished memories for both parties.
 

onespiritualpitcher

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Left things as a one night stand. . . I didn't see much point in repeat-business since she was scheduled to leave town. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm biased in favor of ONS for a number of personal reasons. So I'll take almost any excuse to leave things this way. . .

Like when you consider how these types of liminal experiences. . . can create perfect and untarnished memories for both parties.
I appreciate your reply man!

IME that’s the best argument I’ve been able to come up with inside myself for being okay with ONSs. Sometimes life wants us to have these intense fleeting moments, two ships passing in the night. The perfectionist and competitor in me always wants to see if I can go deeper, even better, and connect more strongly in a 2nd meet up/night of sex though.

On another inner game note, I was kind of triggered inside with her having a BF and cheating (idk if it was an open relationship so maybe she didn’t). Not because I think that makes you or her a bad/dishonest person. More because I’m wrestling with the possibility internally that perhaps these secret trysts stir up more passion than what can ever be found in an open or monogamous LTR with the intention of open/honest communication. Like maybe you lose out on valuable passion/fireworks if you are 100% open/honest in relationships. Or maybe the vulnerability from being 100% real becomes the fireworks in and of itself. Maybe I’m being too idealistic.

Perhaps it’s an internal struggle worth creating a new thread for. I’ve slept with a couple women who were in long term “monogamous” relationships in the last year and I have no qualms about the act of cheating itself. It’s more a dissonance in relation to the ideal future monogamous relationship I want 10 years down the road.
 

Bacchus

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Anytime. Happy to!

Also, coming back to a forum I'm feeling excited to make FR's again. I'd appreciate your input once I start posting them.
Sure I'll give them a look.

Thanks for the clarification. It's something I definitely need to think about and incorporate. And doing it in the right dose.

A long time ago, I was with a girl, cute little ex college cheerleader, we were in isolation, had been dancing together, had already kissed and were sitting down together etc. The thing is, she started acting rude, which I didn't get, I felt like I was already further in that interaction. So I actually went to the bathroom, thought about being a bit of an asshole ("how would the type of guy she likes act?"), and when I came back I sat down next to her and just stared straight ahead silently with a blank expression. In short order she started rubbing my thigh, she knew she was losing my attention with her behavior and she wanted it back.

That did wind up being an SNL.
I recommend adding it to your repertoire.

Most of my seductions start off very casual. Looking off into the distance mysteriously while hovering. Always opening over the shoulder. My body-language says I'm not really that invested in the interaction. And I might decide to walk off at any moment.

Nonchalance can be relaxing, and a strong overall presence will make some girls curious enough. . . to prompt immediate investment. Then after a short conversation laced with intriguing comments and verbal poetry. . . her body-language will look like she's the one chatting me up.

Girls often feel like they're chasing a guy. . . when they find themselves pelting him with question after question. So these verbal and non-verbal tools used in sync make it easy to create strong first impressions and reach the hook point consistently.

Sometimes I move girls into isolation, or pull to instant-dates without turning my body to face hers once.

To me, some beliefs are:

The more honest she is with me the more quickly, the better the experience.

I'm able to be 100% honest right away because I have a pure desire and pure intentions, which include giving her pleasure and passion and being a positive force in her life.

I'm interested in opening a more honest and genuine connection between us, because of the benefits above and because I have nothing to hide.

One of the major things she can't be honest about is her sexuality, because so many people want to use it against her, either shaming her or manipulating her emotions to get at it (without considering her needs or the repercussions from violated expectations)

So I'd say I'd be riffing around those, depending on what she gives me.
Going off what you posted earlier:

“. . . sometimes you just wish people had the courage to be more honest. I mean I get it. . . it might be hard to say exactly what you're thinking. And we all have our guilty pleasures. People just have many sides to themselves. You may have another side to you. . . a deeper side. A confident independent side. . . maybe only a few people get to see. Now with me. . . I'd say this side makes you feel excited and motivated right?”

I can see lots of girls responding with some form agreement. But during the delivery I'd pay special attention to her eyes. . . her facial expressions and vibe. Riffing requires a strong awareness of the girl's emotional feedback to calibrate as you manage conversations.

This is what prompts a decision to steer towards a discussion centered on an SOT like guilty pleasures. While offering a persuasive perspective such as confident people. . . never feel guilty about their pleasure. Or if you meet a girl with a different vibe. . . you'd move the conversation towards imaginative aspects of hobbies or activities she personally finds exciting. Positively engaging her on an emotional level as she recalls the memories.

Nailing your riffs during a seduction means continuing to make these micro-calibrations as you improvise and move the conversation forward. Tailoring your game in the moment using your internal compass as a guide. . . is hands-down an exciting way to play the game.

Overall though, looks like a good movie for some seductive behaviors. Worth a watch. Thanks for the recommendation!

And "Jack Nicholson's character is phenomenal in his role as a smooth charmer." Supposedly he's had sex with over a thousand women, and at some point said he was "tired of threesomes", haha. He also had a main girl, the woman who played the female lead in the Adams family for a large portion of this time, while basically acting single the entire time. Also, a few out of wedlock children. So yeah, I'd say he's drawing on experience here! (And I think a lot of actors, when they actually do this in real life, can portray it a lot better in cinema.)
It's from his younger days. And haha yeah. . . he certainly didn't get nicknamed The Great Seducer for no reason.
 
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Watts

Modern Human
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Sure I'll give them a look.
Thank you. Really appreciate and respect your input.

I recommend adding it to your repertoire.

Most of my seductions start off very casual. Looking off into the distance mysteriously while hovering. Always opening over the shoulder. My body-language says I'm not really that invested in the interaction. And I might decide to walk off at any moment.

Nonchalance can be relaxing, and a strong overall presence will make some girls curious enough. . . to prompt immediate investment. Then after a short conversation laced with intriguing comments and verbal poetry. . . her body-language will look like she's the one chatting me up.

Girls often feel like they're chasing a guy. . . when they find themselves pelting him with question after question. So these verbal and non-verbal tools used in sync make it easy to create strong first impressions and reach the hook point consistently.
Taken altogether, it's interesting to see how you create a chasing frame in the beginning and continuing on through the early stages.

I have a ton of ways to open girls, at this point mostly unconscious, but I'm always willing to learn more.

I'm definitely more direct than you, and more explicit in my interest sooner (both in body language and I strongly suspect verbals), and it's possible just dialing it back 10% or 20% could create more smooth, efficient seductions.

Sometimes I move girls into isolation, or pull to instant-dates without turning my body to face hers once.
This sounds like a lot of fun.

Going off what you posted earlier:

“. . . sometimes you just wish people had the courage to be more honest. I mean I get it. . . it might be hard to say exactly what you're thinking. And we all have our guilty pleasures. People just have many sides to themselves. You may have another side to you. . . a deeper side. A confident independent side. . . maybe only a few people get to see. Now with me. . . I'd say this side makes you feel excited and motivated right?”
I hate to say it but I had the perfect opportunity to do this tonight. She even called herself "honest". We did wind up talking about her sexual kinks, including how she likes rough sex, being picked up and thrown around, being choked, and how sad she was once she cut her hair and she couldn't get ridden the same way anymore.

She also told me about her toys and I offered to use them on her, which she was surprised and delighted by. We had fun and she was very turned on. But A) I may have overcooked her and B) Her friend that was staying with her interrupted us as she was getting to her fantasies.

A half hour later, she was adamant that I couldn't come home with her (probably because she strongly suspected it would lead to sex, and now she was in a logical place).

Will put it in FR sometime next week.

I can see lots of girls responding with some form agreement. But during the delivery I'd pay special attention to her eyes. . . her facial expressions and vibe. Riffing requires a strong awareness of the girl's emotional feedback to calibrate as you manage conversations.
I agree, thanks for pointing it out. Have you ever studied micro-expressions? I mentioned them just before, and I actually trained in them. It was wild, you start to see the little expressions that people have for a split second and hide. You might like it.

This is what prompts a decision to steer towards a discussion centered on an SOT like guilty pleasures. While offering a persuasive perspective such as confident people. . . never feel guilty about their pleasure. Or if you meet a girl with a different vibe. . . you'd move the conversation towards imaginative aspects of hobbies or activities she personally finds exciting. Positively engaging her on an emotional level as she recalls the memories.

Nailing your riffs during a seduction means continuing to make these micro-calibrations as you improvise and move the conversation forward. Tailoring your game in the moment using your internal compass as a guide. . . is hands-down an exciting way to play the game.
Confident people never feel guilty about their pleasure is the corollary to what I believe is "hot girl abandon" in that a girl who is hot enough is less worried about same night sex, because she just assumes a guy will be back again (or another one right around the corner). Just a pet theory of mine, but I like this. Thank you.

And yeah, I love that too. There's something about a perfectly executed verbal stack and seeing the effect on a girl that's exhilarating... not to mention, when it leads to bedding her later!
 

Bacchus

Tribal Elder
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470
I appreciate the props Mr. Rob. . .

I love seeing the SOT stuff in action. Kind of cool how you take a topic that isn't particularly pleasurable (self-development) and spin it into a pleasurable activity as if it were almost hedonistic. I'm not overly hedonistic these days but I do revel in the pleasure of discipline and also art, food, and sex. So that's a cool way to talk about it.
This is a very astute observation. Something I will add is the bedrock of frame-control. . . is your own unique perspective.

Frames are essentially viewpoints and perspectives on a subject. So as you broaden your perspective you start noticing more and more aspects of any topic currently being discussed. You can even practice this by. . . splitting up topics that frequently come up in your conversations with women into sub-topics and their tangential aspects. These topics can be things you tend to talk about or subjects girls usually bring up.

You'll want to focus on the interesting angles, emotionally engaging sub-topics, or even aspects of a topic which are tangentially related to an SOT. This is an exercise which enables you to familiarize yourself with various viewpoints on the topics you might discuss during a seduction. . . because with a very wide lens it becomes easier to take over conversations and align her perspective with yours.

One thing I notice when I read the verbal dialogue of Alek, you, and similar verbal seducers that use the SOT type stuff... well your conversation threads revolve a lot around evoking and talking about emotions and experiences and empowering girls to indulge in their passions. For me (and I'd imagine a lot of guys) this type of conversation can feel like its not going anywhere. There is no linear path. But to women its building emotion and arousal. Its increasing the level of energy you're both connecting on.
Spot on.
 

Bacchus

Tribal Elder
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Messages
470
I appreciate your reply man!

IME that’s the best argument I’ve been able to come up with inside myself for being okay with ONSs. Sometimes life wants us to have these intense fleeting moments, two ships passing in the night. The perfectionist and competitor in me always wants to see if I can go deeper, even better, and connect more strongly in a 2nd meet up/night of sex though.

On another inner game note, I was kind of triggered inside with her having a BF and cheating (idk if it was an open relationship so maybe she didn’t). Not because I think that makes you or her a bad/dishonest person. More because I’m wrestling with the possibility internally that perhaps these secret trysts stir up more passion than what can ever be found in an open or monogamous LTR with the intention of open/honest communication. Like maybe you lose out on valuable passion/fireworks if you are 100% open/honest in relationships. Or maybe the vulnerability from being 100% real becomes the fireworks in and of itself. Maybe I’m being too idealistic.

Perhaps it’s an internal struggle worth creating a new thread for. I’ve slept with a couple women who were in long term “monogamous” relationships in the last year and I have no qualms about the act of cheating itself. It’s more a dissonance in relation to the ideal future monogamous relationship I want 10 years down the road.
Generally speaking the feeling of passion in LTRs tends to diminish with the passage of time.

Doesn't always have to be the case though. . . it is possible to make a girl addicted to you. And extend this feeling, keeping the flames of passion burning for the long haul. There are relationship management strategies geared towards that. But yeah it's a discussion for another thread. . .
 
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