PSA: Psychopathy is not a positive trait

[CharmingPsychopath]

Here you need to understand the context:

People in security line of work, especially bouncers learn really fast. Never worked as a bouncer myself but have several friends that have. It is totally possible that last time they saw that same glance the dude had a knife, he stabbed someone, they had to break his arm and choke him out.

That's possible, but it also might not be linked to a particular experience.

My best friend says I have scary, "inhuman" eyes, "like a serial killer", "like a snake". He sometimes accidently get instinctively scared of me despite us being very good friends - it happens when he concentrates on something else and then gives me a random, casual glance. He says he then experiences a short moment of instinctive panic - he compares it to suddenly encountering a wild tiger close to his face. After a moment he realises the absurdity of that and calms down, but a moment of instinctive panic is there.

My friend doesn't have experience with snakes, tigers or serial killers. These are just comparisons inspired by media he uses to describe his impressions.

BTW He has a history of physical violence, was in many fights - he's never was a bouncer, but he could be one. And he has psychopathic traits himself.

It's much better to be have a good vibe with bouncers. Good vibe is something the experienced bouncers cultivate and it's social proof for you too because he is the "official alpha" of that venue.

I don't have a general problem with bouncers. Different people from the given group see different things in me - I guess it depends on individual perception and sensitivity.

I also would suggest keeping that same stare in check with cops that are nervous.
Especially if you happen to have "ethnic look", are in bad neighborhood and reaching your phone from the pocket of your hoodie.
(apologies for the dark humor)

I'm a white guy in a white country which is highly safe.

That said, @CharmingPsychopath , althought you didn't break any rules, antagonizing a senior member will never do you any good.
Of course you can disagree with anybody, but your tone in your first comment was a little off (and uncalled for).

The senior member called me "Fuckedup Psychopath" in another thread, the day before - out of the blue, we weren't arguing or anything, he just came and insulted me. (He edited the post later, but I happened to be online and saw the original version, made a screenshot.)

I know some folks are display psychopathic tendencies but that is not a guaranteed way of attraction from women. And generally, they only accumulate more enemies than friends in the long run.

By "tendencies" you mean behaviors?

I benefit from a psychopatic "dangerous guy" non-verbal vibe - I don't behave openly in a psychopatic way. Usually I'm in fact quite nice and warm.

Scientists say (some) psychopaths have something called "Superficial Charm":

Superficial charm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If somebody openly acts in a psychopatic way, then he's one of those who can't control themselves.

A highly functioning psychopath is somebody who acts normally, can be charming and people not knowing the person very well would never call him a psychopath.

As for friends and enemies... Among males, I have enemies, but also many people like me. And about my enemies - oddly it's never me who has started the conflict. Some men are jealous of me (in the context of women) - especially the narcisstic ones. Others want me to respect them or something like that - while I find them stupid, lame and I don't bother hiding it. They start some bad behaviors towards me and I respond, often with much more agression and viciousness they expected.

Among females, I'm overwhelmingly more liked than disliked.

When psychopaths like you enough as a friend, they will generally try to prod you along to approach life more like they do. Some of their prodding is useful, when it helps you get past personal anxieties, limitations, etc.

Yes. A friend with psychopatic traits helped me a lot and I helped many of my friends with my psychopatic, ruthless perspective.

Getting inside their heads is simple in some ways, but challenging to a non-psychopath in other ways. Basically, imagine you think about the world purely in terms of usefulness to you, and entertainment. Everything else is irrelevant. You do not care about what other people are feeling, unless those feelings threaten to be a hindrance to you, or to reduce their usefulness to you, or reduce your entertainment. That does not necessarily mean you actively try to hurt people; it just means that talking or thinking about feelings that are not useful or entertaining just bores you. Who cares?

I only have that partially - I do care to some extent, but I also have that utilitarian psychopath perspective.

Some researchers into psychopathy have concluded that psychopaths suffer from profound loneliness due to their inability to perform deep, meaningful connections with others; e.g., they are forever 'separate'. However, due to flat affect, they do not typically feel the loneliness as such; instead it manifests as boredom and a thirst for stimulation.

After spending enough time around them, I will say I can sense that deep inner loneliness/separateness in them. However, I can also sense that there is nothing I can really do about it, because they simply do not work in a way that permits genuine connection. That road is closed for them.

Hmmmm, I do generally feel "separate". But I don't feel lonely and I do enjoy connections with people - even though I don't need those connections as much as normal people do.

They can still be fun and interesting people. Some are real users and manipulators but some are pretty harmless (e.g., grandiose compulsive liars who constantly tell great & crazy stories, thrill seekers always on the hunt for a great experience, etc.).

I think grandiose compulsive liars are narcissists, not psychopaths.

 

[POB]

The senior member called me "Fuckedup Psychopath" in another thread, the day before - out of the blue, we weren't arguing or anything, he just came and insulted me. (He edited the post later, but I happened to be online and saw the original version, made a screenshot.)

There are mods here.... why start a flame war when you can just flag the post and PM one of the mods?
(G-zus, sometimes I think we are dealing with a bunch of 15yo debutants...can't you guys just call a mod and let it go?)

 

[Skills]

I've always found the subject of psychopathy fascinating, and I've dealt with a fair nunber of psychos in my life.

Those that have some amount of self-control will actively scan for targets that they perceive as weak. The more social adept ones may indeed try to charm their targets at first, then backstab them at an opportune moment of their choosing. Either for some sort of personal gain, or just because for the pure satisfaction and feeling of power they derive from hurting someone.

They will test for weakness right from the start. If they perceive you as a hard target they will usually pass, and move on to someone less risky to take advantage off.

What a psychopath will not usually do is advertise his or her psychopathy on a large billboard, as this would rob them off the element of surprise. That said, many will give themselves away inadvertently by what they talk about. For example, if they talk a lot about fights they'v been in, or brag about how they screwed people over, that can be a good warning sign.

A large part of human mating rituals have evolved precisely in order to screen out the psychopaths.

Ideally, as a healthy individual, you wouldn't be attracted by someone that gets off on hurting the weak (unless you could somehow be sure that they won't try that kind of thing with you). But then again, everyone is different and there's an incredible range of things that people will be attracted to.

Also, psychopaths can be among the most successful people in many fields because of their ruthlessness and their lust for power. And success, in any field, is in itself of course highly attractive.

Plus, not every woman (or man) is sane, not everyone is strong enough to resist the temptation, and not everyone has enough options to allow themselves the luxury of screening out potentially abusive partners. Which is why abusive relationships exist in the first place. I've seen a few, and it ain't pretty. And once you're in one, it can be very hard for the victim to get out again.

For anyone who has even a modicum of self respect, you want to screen the psychos and the abusers out before you get too attached to them. Chase has a number of great articles about that subject.

Correct i always can tell the posters that scream the loudest i am this or my game is amazing and all the rest tend sooner all layer to be the opposite...

 

[AsianBabe]

I have known multiple psychopathic seducers over the years. There was a period in my life when several of my closest friends (though I am not sure that's the quite right term; see below) were psychopathic seducers.

Do you think those psychopathic seducers were capable of genuine change? At least to a certain extent?

When psychopaths like you enough as a friend, they will generally try to prod you along to approach life more like they do. Some of their prodding is useful, when it helps you get past personal anxieties, limitations, etc.
Though some of it will be prodding in the direction of being more callous toward others, generally to approach others in a purely utilitarian way, which as a non-psychopath you can only go so far with ("Yes, I can see that this person has limited utility to me, but I would also prefer not to be a complete jackass", etc.).

They've helped me in those ways too but you're right it can only go so far. Callousness reminds me of what Rinoa says to Squall in FFVIII, "You're just a great leader aren't you? Do you actually enjoy being so callous to your comrades?"

Though I think Squall aligns more with Schizoid Personality Disorder, his character also has a deep utilitarian nature, and his peers are more like resources than friends to him. His callousness helps him achieve his goals and he seems to use it as a shield to avoid vulnerability and deep intimacy. Those traits seem to overlap a bit with psychopathy, at least on the surface.

Getting inside their heads is simple in some ways, but challenging to a non-psychopath in other ways. Basically, imagine you think about the world purely in terms of usefulness to you, and entertainment. Everything else is irrelevant. You do not care about what other people are feeling, unless those feelings threaten to be a hindrance to you, or to reduce their usefulness to you, or reduce your entertainment. That does not necessarily mean you actively try to hurt people; it just means that talking or thinking about feelings that are not useful or entertaining just bores you. Who cares?

That's my impression of them as well, especially when they're being very dismissive of your feelings because it's not convenient to them or it seems like a burden. As a result, it feels frustrating and invalidating.

Watching movies with psychopaths is interesting. Early into getting to know him, my erstwhile psychopath roommate decided to watch Spider-Man 2. He skipped through 100% of the storytelling and emotional heart of the movie, only watching the action sequences, then when it was over declared, "Eh, it was all right!"

I was really into the movie then and couldn't believe his blasé judgment of it. I said, "That's because you didn't watch any of the story so you didn't get invested in what happens to the characters!" But now that I understand psychopathy better, I know that even if he did watch those parts, he still wouldn't have cared; it would've just bored him more!

That's my experience with them too - I'll be bawling my eyes out and feeling moved at the end of the movie if some characters I got attached to happened to die, but they'll feel meh about those parts. At first I thought, "oh maybe that's just a guy thing and I'm more emotional?" But then when I watched the movie again with a different guy, and he at least teared up or showed he cared more.

After spending enough time around them, I will say I can sense that deep inner loneliness/separateness in them. However, I can also sense that there is nothing I can really do about it, because they simply do not work in a way that permits genuine connection. That road is closed for them.

Yeah I can sense that in them too.. I'll feel the disconnect and I'll usually leave them once I realize they're unable to form that genuine connection with me - it's like they have a fear of true intimacy and their words can feel shallow and insincere at times.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

tendencies" you mean behaviors?

I benefit from a psychopatic "dangerous guy" non-verbal vibe - I don't behave openly in a psychopatic way. Usually I'm in fact quite nice and warm.

Scientists say (some) psychopaths have something called "Superficial Charm":

Only initially but people who knows what psychopaths are like are not fans of them.
Who cares about superficial charm.

I am a man not a woman.

 

[Skills]

with all due respect to all the members of the forum, this has to be to me the most cringe shit ever! talking about psychopath crap, there is nothing practical... yawn!

3 pages.... this remind me of the "be alpha" days, god! psychopath cringe maxing.... Brb let me go ahead and teach people how to be pychopath... This so no practical yawn!

 

[SenseErn]

I have gone in field with a couple psychopaths. It is not fun.

Some of the things they do cause you to sit back and laugh. SOmethings make you think and can develop your own game, by showing you what you can do and be successful. They can push you to higher heights.

What I saw most of the time was guys who read about psychopaths like serial murderers who seem to have no problem getting women, and so they try to adopt some of the same things. What they leave out of the serial killer stories is the number of women who turned them down and they moved on to the next prospect. Stories about how Ted Bundy offered a ride to a woman and she said no are boring and short. The most interesting story is how Ted Bundy offered a ride to Debra Harry and she said no.

That said, if you identify as a psychopath, for real, as Michael Jordan says,

Mental illness is not something to take lightly. It can ruin your life.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

Correct i always can tell the posters that scream the loudest i am this or my game is amazing and all the rest tend sooner all layer to be the opposite...

Isn't there another motivation behind your words?

Many people feel bad when somebody is better than them - especially if that superiority is achieved through ways they don't understand, which aren't available to them, or which contradict their worldview/morals. Especially if they have invested much in some other methods, which prove less effective. It can become more than normal envy - people can feel like their identity, their beliefs, their life is being "invalidated".

I've seen PUAs go sour when they saw somebody getting better results than them. Especially experienced PUAs, who consider themselves good and who have invested 10+ or 20+ years into this. And I've seen their attempts to "fix" this sourness - by reinterpreting reality and finding some "faults", undermining other person's success, trying to convince themselves that things are in fact different than they are.

I'm great at state projection/vibes and I'm also good looking... Of course I have great results. Especially with women who are attracted to men with psychopathic/dangerous guy/badboy vibes - and there are plenty of those.

Do you think those psychopathic seducers were capable of genuine change? At least to a certain extent?

If the psychopatic traits are moderate, it may be possible, but it's unlikely.

When the psychopathic traits are really strong, there is no hope at all.

Only initially but people who knows what psychopaths are like are not fans of them.

Not necessarily only initially - it depends on the psychopaths level of self-control and patience.

You seem to be speaking about the kind of psychopaths with low self-control, low patience - there are such people, but not all psychopaths are like that.

Some psychopaths keep a mask on for decades and people around them have no idea. In fact, since they know the person for decades, they're convinced that the mask is the full, real personality.

In my case, my family, most of my friends, my neighbours and coworkers have no idea I have psychopatic traits. Some of them know I have violent temper, that I'm extremely vengeful and can sometimes be cruel.... But they consider it normal character faults, not psychopathy.

Who cares about superficial charm.

I am a man not a woman.

What does your gender have to do with it?

1. Men get manipulated by superficial charm of male psychopaths (and narcissists) as well. It's not sexual of course - it's a kind of "wow, what a great guy, great friend" kind of impression.

2. There are also women who are psychopaths.

with all due respect to all the members of the forum, this has to be to me the most cringe shit ever! talking about psychopath crap, there is nothing practical... yawn!

This thread is a psychological gold mine, if one knows how to read it.

What I saw most of the time was guys who read about psychopaths like serial murderers who seem to have no problem getting women, and so they try to adopt some of the same things. What they leave out of the serial killer stories is the number of women who turned them down and they moved on to the next prospect. Stories about how Ted Bundy offered a ride to a woman and she said no are boring and short. The most interesting story is how Ted Bundy offered a ride to Debra Harry and she said no.

Psychopathy can help, but it's not a magic bullet, psychopaths can get rejected too.

Also, some psychopaths try to fully hide their psychopathy, some show it too much, and some show just a bit of it in their vibe - and that's the really attractive option.

Generally it's a complicated topic in itself.

Mental illness is not something to take lightly. It can ruin your life.

1. Psychopathy is not a mental illness.

2. Effects depend on severity.

I had a "friend" once - who was the no loyalty whatsoever, backstabbing, reckless type.... He died before 40. I don't know how, but I don't think it was natural - I suspect suicide or reckless driving resulting in accident. This guy once stole something from the police just for fun. And he was a good seducer, had great charm. He would befriend people, then borrow money from them, not pay it back and then continue the same process with next people.

On the other hand, my psychopatic traits clearly make my life better, not worse. And I know multiple people with psychopatic traits who live normal, good lives.

https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/mind/2023/psychopathic-path-to-success

BTW:

"A 2016 study of employees in an Australian advertising agency, for example, found that senior executives scored higher than more junior staff on measures of behaviors linked to psychopathic traits — such as being initially charming, poised and calm, but also egocentric, remorseless and lacking in self-blame."

From my point view, an average guy is mentally weak, neurotic, emotionally messed up... And women can sense that difference. I've been told that I'm "so strong", "decisive", "real man", etc etc. And I don't have to do anything special, I'm just being me. I just don't have this neurotic vibe of weakness, emotional vulnerability that normal guys have.

 

[empath]

I have known multiple psychopathic seducers over the years. There was a period in my life when several of my closest friends (though I am not sure that's the quite right term; see below) were psychopathic seducers.

They're extremely attuned to social nuance. You will learn heaps just rolling with them, talking to them, observing them, seeing how they think. When psychopaths like you enough as a friend, they will generally try to prod you along to approach life more like they do. Some of their prodding is useful, when it helps you get past personal anxieties, limitations, etc. Though some of it will be prodding in the direction of being more callous toward others, generally to approach others in a purely utilitarian way, which as a non-psychopath you can only go so far with ("Yes, I can see that this person has limited utility to me, but I would also prefer not to be a complete jackass", etc.).

Getting inside their heads is simple in some ways, but challenging to a non-psychopath in other ways. Basically, imagine you think about the world purely in terms of usefulness to you, and entertainment. Everything else is irrelevant. You do not care about what other people are feeling, unless those feelings threaten to be a hindrance to you, or to reduce their usefulness to you, or reduce your entertainment. That does not necessarily mean you actively try to hurt people; it just means that talking or thinking about feelings that are not useful or entertaining just bores you. Who cares?

Watching movies with psychopaths is interesting. Early into getting to know him, my erstwhile psychopath roommate decided to watch Spider-Man 2. He skipped through 100% of the storytelling and emotional heart of the movie, only watching the action sequences, then when it was over declared, "Eh, it was all right!"

I was really into the movie then and couldn't believe his blasé judgment of it. I said, "That's because you didn't watch any of the story so you didn't get invested in what happens to the characters!" But now that I understand psychopathy better, I know that even if he did watch those parts, he still wouldn't have cared; it would've just bored him more!

Rather than friendships, psychopaths really form more "alliances of usefulness, convenience, or entertainment value" with other people. They will stick to you like glue if you are someone who is useful and entertaining to them. But if the usefulness or entertainment ends, they fade away in search of replacement stimuli.

Some researchers into psychopathy have concluded that psychopaths suffer from profound loneliness due to their inability to perform deep, meaningful connections with others; e.g., they are forever 'separate'. However, due to flat affect, they do not typically feel the loneliness as such; instead it manifests as boredom and a thirst for stimulation.

After spending enough time around them, I will say I can sense that deep inner loneliness/separateness in them. However, I can also sense that there is nothing I can really do about it, because they simply do not work in a way that permits genuine connection. That road is closed for them.

They can still be fun and interesting people. Some are real users and manipulators but some are pretty harmless (e.g., grandiose compulsive liars who constantly tell great & crazy stories, thrill seekers always on the hunt for a great experience, etc.).

Chase

Do they feel guilty or remorseful,

I have experienced they have a internal moral compass but that is detached from reality.

They feel sad and angry, if something happens against that compass, but might be minor or non offence in eyes of normal masses. While something is not as per their moral compass they won’t feel anything even if it is bad in eyes of normal masses and even rationalise why everyone else is overblowing issue from proportion and this skewed moral compass sometimes leads them to pick wrong side as well.

basically they have a moral compass built without empathy and has high degree of black and white thinking.

 

[empath]

Do you think those psychopathic seducers were capable of genuine change? At least to a certain extent?


They've helped me in those ways too but you're right it can only go so far. Callousness reminds me of what Rinoa says to Squall in FFVIII, "You're just a great leader aren't you? Do you actually enjoy being so callous to your comrades?"

Though I think Squall aligns more with Schizoid Personality Disorder, his character also has a deep utilitarian nature, and his peers are more like resources than friends to him. His callousness helps him achieve his goals and he seems to use it as a shield to avoid vulnerability and deep intimacy. Those traits seem to overlap a bit with psychopathy, at least on the surface.


That's my impression of them as well, especially when they're being very dismissive of your feelings because it's not convenient to them or it seems like a burden. As a result, it feels frustrating and invalidating.


That's my experience with them too - I'll be bawling my eyes out and feeling moved at the end of the movie if some characters I got attached to happened to die, but they'll feel meh about those parts. At first I thought, "oh maybe that's just a guy thing and I'm more emotional?" But then when I watched the movie again with a different guy, and he at least teared up or showed he cared more.


Yeah I can sense that in them too.. I'll feel the disconnect and I'll usually leave them once I realize they're unable to form that genuine connection with me - it's like they have a fear of true intimacy and their words can feel shallow and insincere at times.

I think they can change if they feel compelled to change or fear losing something if they won’t change.

Though this is actually not change but acting in a way conducive to them basically they become good at masking/faking behaviour.

As soon as their need subsides their callousness will come back.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

Isn't there another motivation behind your words?

Many people feel bad when somebody is better than them - especially if that superiority is achieved through ways they don't understand, which aren't available to them, or which contradict their worldview/morals. Especially if they have invested much in some other methods, which prove less effective. It can become more than normal envy - people can feel like their identity, their beliefs, their life is being "invalidated".

I've seen PUAs go sour when they saw somebody getting better results than them. Especially experienced PUAs, who consider themselves good and who have invested 10+ or 20+ years into this. And I've seen their attempts to "fix" this sourness - by reinterpreting reality and finding some "faults", undermining other person's success, trying to convince themselves that things are in fact different than they are.

I'm great at state projection/vibes and I'm also good looking... Of course I have great results. Especially with women who are attracted to men with psychopathic/dangerous guy/badboy vibes - and there are plenty of those.



If the psychopatic traits are moderate, it may be possible, but it's unlikely.

When the psychopathic traits are really strong, there is no hope at all.



Not necessarily only initially - it depends on the psychopaths level of self-control and patience.

You seem to be speaking about the kind of psychopaths with low self-control, low patience - there are such people, but not all psychopaths are like that.

Some psychopaths keep a mask on for decades and people around them have no idea. In fact, since they know the person for decades, they're convinced that the mask is the full, real personality.

In my case, my family, most of my friends, my neighbours and coworkers have no idea I have psychopatic traits. Some of them know I have violent temper, that I'm extremely vengeful and can sometimes be cruel.... But they consider it normal character faults, not psychopathy.



What does your gender have to do with it?

1. Men get manipulated by superficial charm of male psychopaths (and narcissists) as well. It's not sexual of course - it's a kind of "wow, what a great guy, great friend" kind of impression.

2. There are also women who are psychopaths.



This thread is a psychological gold mine, if one knows how to read it.



Psychopathy can help, but it's not a magic bullet, psychopaths can get rejected too.

Also, some psychopaths try to fully hide their psychopathy, some show it too much, and some show just a bit of it in their vibe - and that's the really attractive option.

Generally it's a complicated topic in itself.





1. Psychopathy is not a mental illness.

2. Effects depend on severity.

I had a "friend" once - who was the no loyalty whatsoever, backstabbing, reckless type.... He died before 40. I don't know how, but I don't think it was natural - I suspect suicide or reckless driving resulting in accident. This guy once stole something from the police just for fun. And he was a good seducer, had great charm. He would befriend people, then borrow money from them, not pay it back and then continue the same process with next people.

On the other hand, my psychopatic traits clearly make my life better, not worse. And I know multiple people with psychopatic traits who live normal, good lives.

https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/mind/2023/psychopathic-path-to-success

BTW:

"A 2016 study of employees in an Australian advertising agency, for example, found that senior executives scored higher than more junior staff on measures of behaviors linked to psychopathic traits — such as being initially charming, poised and calm, but also egocentric, remorseless and lacking in self-blame."

From my point view, an average guy is mentally weak, neurotic, emotionally messed up... And women can sense that difference. I've been told that I'm "so strong", "decisive", "real man", etc etc. And I don't have to do anything special, I'm just being me. I just don't have this neurotic vibe of weakness, emotional vulnerability that normal guys have.

Seems like you feel that your identity is under attack but that wasn't my goal.

There are all kinds of people in this world.

 

[Skills]

That's possible, but it also might not be linked to a particular experience.

My best friend says I have scary, "inhuman" eyes, "like a serial killer", "like a snake". He sometimes accidently get instinctively scared of me despite us being very good friends - it happens when he concentrates on something else and then gives me a random, casual glance. He says he then experiences a short moment of instinctive panic - he compares it to suddenly encountering a wild tiger close to his face. After a moment he realises the absurdity of that and calms down, but a moment of instinctive panic is there.

My friend doesn't have experience with snakes, tigers or serial killers. These are just comparisons inspired by media he uses to describe his impressions.

BTW He has a history of physical violence, was in many fights - he's never was a bouncer, but he could be one. And he has psychopathic traits himself.



I don't have a general problem with bouncers. Different people from the given group see different things in me - I guess it depends on individual perception and sensitivity.





I'm a white guy in a white country which is highly safe.



The senior member called me "Fuckedup Psychopath" in another thread, the day before - out of the blue, we weren't arguing or anything, he just came and insulted me. (He edited the post later, but I happened to be online and saw the original version, made a screenshot.)



By "tendencies" you mean behaviors?

I benefit from a psychopatic "dangerous guy" non-verbal vibe - I don't behave openly in a psychopatic way. Usually I'm in fact quite nice and warm.

Scientists say (some) psychopaths have something called "Superficial Charm":

Superficial charm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If somebody openly acts in a psychopatic way, then he's one of those who can't control themselves.

A highly functioning psychopath is somebody who acts normally, can be charming and people not knowing the person very well would never call him a psychopath.

As for friends and enemies... Among males, I have enemies, but also many people like me. And about my enemies - oddly it's never me who has started the conflict. Some men are jealous of me (in the context of women) - especially the narcisstic ones. Others want me to respect them or something like that - while I find them stupid, lame and I don't bother hiding it. They start some bad behaviors towards me and I respond, often with much more agression and viciousness they expected.

Among females, I'm overwhelmingly more liked than disliked.



Yes. A friend with psychopatic traits helped me a lot and I helped many of my friends with my psychopatic, ruthless perspective.



I only have that partially - I do care to some extent, but I also have that utilitarian psychopath perspective.



Hmmmm, I do generally feel "separate". But I don't feel lonely and I do enjoy connections with people - even though I don't need those connections as much as normal people do.



I think grandiose compulsive liars are narcissists, not psychopaths.

Brah! No offense there is nothing at all i can learn from you amigo, with all due respect... Also you are projecting too much... You constantly downplay other proven methods and you claim a bunch of shit... I did get an idea of your game in your attempt to flirt in my bad cyber flirt with Asian babe... that style i seen through the years and posters like you through the year. No disrespect not impressed... I tried to look at your lrs unfortunately couldn't find out nor any practical posts...

 

[Skills]

Relevant to the post there are 2 guys extremely good at seduction one is cody lions cost of success aka cosy..

Then my brother the total opposite of me .. 360 opposite of any psycppatic behaviors...

They are both very sweet, caring in tune with women emotions super empathetic.... Both get easy seductions and women drooling, in case of my brother who was about to go to seminary to become a priest....big brother, fatherly role protectors... again i witness this type of style with my brother and he was not even running game but hot women chasing, he would piss me off...

What they had in common is that there was no agenda per se, they kind of remove desire but are extremely present... Super hard to explain... But the total opposite of any psychopath behavior.,.

 

[empath]

Relevant to the post there are 2 guys extremely good at seduction one is cody lions cost of success aka cosy..

Then my brother the total opposite of me .. 360 opposite of any psycppatic behaviors...

They are both very sweet, caring in tune with women emotions super empathetic.... Both get easy seductions and women drooling, in case of my brother who was about to go to seminary to become a priest....big brother, fatherly role protectors... again i witness this type of style with my brother and he was not even running game but hot women chasing, he would piss me off...

What they had in common is that there was no agenda per se, they kind of remove desire but are extremely present... Super hard to explain... But the total opposite of any psychopath behavior.,.

Are there some LRs of them would be a fun read.

 

[AsianBabe]

I found this interview below pretty intriguing. If the video is too long, you can also skim around to the highlights that interest you.

This guy was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, emotionally unstable personality disorder, and bipolar type 2 - warning: his case is on the severe end though, a bit scary just hearing the things he did...:

I think they can change if they feel compelled to change or fear losing something if they won’t change.

Though this is actually not change but acting in a way conducive to them basically they become good at masking/faking behaviour.

As soon as their need subsides their callousness will come back.

Ah, that's a good point. So the change is only temporary for as long as it suits them? Makes sense.

If the psychopatic traits are moderate, it may be possible, but it's unlikely.

When the psychopathic traits are really strong, there is no hope at all.

That makes sense, wouldn't expect them to change unless they knew it would benefit them.

No hope at all huh, that's unfortunate...even with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy?

Both get easy seductions and women drooling, in case of my brother who was about to go to seminary to become a priest....big brother, fatherly role protectors...

He sounds like my father.. But my father gave up priesthood as soon he met my mother.

 

[empath]

I found this interview below pretty intriguing. If the video is too long, you can also skim around to the highlights that interest you.

This guy was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, emotionally unstable personality disorder, and bipolar type 2:

Ah, that's a good point. So the change is only temporary for as long as it suits them? Makes sense.



That makes sense, wouldn't expect them to change unless they knew it would benefit them.

No hope at all huh, that's unfortunate...even with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy?



He sounds like my father.. But my father gave up priesthood as soon he met my mother.

To be honest many psychopath don’t even realise they are psychopath, they believe their world view is right and why others are not able to get them oh wait others are just dumb.

Idk CBT might or might not work, but no psychopath will take it

Because therapists are idiot too, or they will end up telling themselve I can do CBT myself, end up masking/faking again.

It would be interesting though if any psychopath have done it.

I think most self aware psychopaths are on PUA fourms and mostly they use a cope aswell saying my psychopathy makes my life amazing.

But most people who are getting results would not want to dig in psychology … eg successful psychopaths, why fix something that ain't broken?

see I don’t think most of the successful CEOs or Lawyers would think they are psychopaths, for them they are just doing whats necessary to achieve the objective

 

[Francis]

OG Franco

March 2026

How To Seduce Like A Psychopath – Franco Seduction

 

[Francis]

@CharmingPsychopath do you feel empathy? I am not educated on psychopaths. Like if someone is suffering in front of you, are you emotionally affected?

I read the empathy vs. sympathy distinction from @Hector Papi Castillo in the context of them understanding emotions of others to be able to use it.

A quick search though distinguishes between cognitive empathy vs. affective (emotional) empathy. With real sympathy reserved only for their tightest inner circle.

For example, no affective empathy for their own child, but there is sympathy due to psychopaths viewing their offspring as an extension of self.

That was from a quick Google AI mode. I didn't verify sources.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

I have experienced they have a internal moral compass but that is detached from reality.

They feel sad and angry, if something happens against that compass, but might be minor or non offence in eyes of normal masses. While something is not as per their moral compass they won’t feel anything even if it is bad in eyes of normal masses and even rationalise why everyone else is overblowing issue from proportion and this skewed moral compass sometimes leads them to pick wrong side as well.

basically they have a moral compass built without empathy and has high degree of black and white thinking.

Yes, at least some psychopatic people have a moral compass, but it works differently than morality of normal people.

Something might be a minor offence in the eyes of normal people, but could make a psychopatic person extremely angry. Possibly to the point of having an urge to kill the offender. And it feels to us like that impulse is morally right and that the other person deserves it.

As for guilt...

I feel guilt for times I acted like a selfish dick towards people I like, who didn't do anything bad against me, who I think deserved better. These weren't serious bad things, just selfishness, putting myself first too much, but I feel bad thinking about it and I regret it.

But I feel no guilt at all for much more serious things I have done to people I don't like, who have offended me, I think they deserved it (I think they deserved worse). And I feel good thinking about it, these are pleasant, satisfying memories.

I feel I could very easily kill somebody, without any kind of emotional or moral distress. I feel I would enjoy doing it and it would be a fond memory for me afterwards. Thinking about this makes me slightly "high", I feel that I'm entering a trance... It feels pleasant, hedonistic, almost erotic... It makes me feel calm, satisfied, delighted. I feel harmonious, I feel admiration for myself, I feel I'm such a "beatiful", wonderful being. And the whole thing feels like effects of some kind of mind-altering substance.

So I don't have to actually murder someone - I can get "high" from just thinking about it.

I find this funny - I'm a serial killer material, but at the same time it's only theoretical. People around me have no idea how dangerous I could be in the right/wrong circumstances. I feel like an "alien" hiding in the society, like some kind of vampire masquerading as a human... And yet I'm also a patriot, and highly moralistic when things like society's safety and prosperity are concerned.

To be honest many psychopath don’t even realise they are psychopath, they believe their world view is right and why others are not able to get them oh wait others are just dumb.

Yes, some psychopaths don't realise they're psychopaths. My grandmother was the family tyrant, ruthless manipulator (She told me once my mother is seriously, terminally sick, but she (mother) isn't telling me this because she doesn't want me to worry. Her (grandmother's) plan was to make me behave better - not caring how devastated I could be if I believed her. Fucking bitch), and she was also very tough. I think I have inherited this from her. And nobody called my grandmother a psychopath - people simply thought she had "difficult personality", "was stubborn", etc etc.

As for "others are just dumb" - certainly my grandmother thought she was smarter than she erally was and was adamant in many wrong decisions and misguided behaviors. She generally had good (if utilitarian) intentions, but vey rigid "I'm always right" worldview.

On the other hand, people usually ARE dumb. For example they get emotionally attached to their beliefs, which are often based on media propaganda or wishful thinking and they refuse to accept facts which conflict their emotions and worldview.

Because therapists are idiot too,

A certain psychologist I was fucking convinced me to go to psychotherapy in the context of my abusive childhood (narcisstic father)...

She recommended a high-quality university center. I had a interview there, told a lot about myself, the woman interviewing me flinched and looked uncomfortable. She recommended a therapist and I could easily sense the therapist was considered to be a "tough case" specialist.

The therapist turned out to be a 7/10 woman around 30 with a PHD, who "salivated" at the first sight of me.

I told the therapist I have psychopatic traits... She told me not to worry about it (I did NOT say I was worried! ). She told me it's fine, I just have some perceptions like that, it's nothing serious, etc etc.

The therapy was emotionally moving at times and the therapist was a really intelligent person, I enjoyed talking with her.

But ultimatively the therapy didn't really affect me that much. So I've decided to fuck the therapist - I really like intelligent women. It was against the rules of the therapist association, but "of course" it was ok if we kept it a secret. So we started fucking.

She was actually in a relationship with a male PHD psychologist/therapist and was cheating on him with me.

In the end, she wanted to enter permanent relationship with me.

Today she and the male PHD psychologist/therapist are still together and have a child together. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know she wanted to ruthelessly replace him with a "better product". What an expert on human psyche.

Her point of view on me was that I'm not a psychopath - I'm "masculine". And I have "interesting personality". And I'm "so intelligent". And "so great in bed".

As far as I know, they both continue to teach people about psychology and doing psychotherapy. They of course preach the mainstream view on "relationships based on mutual understanding and communication", etc. She doesn't have a problem with cheating on him and wanting to replace him, and then finally settling for him as the life partner only because I wasn't willing. He, an "expert" in psychology, has no idea what happened behind his back and that she not only cheated on him, but also wanted to replace him.

BTW She preaches the mainstream, feminist views on "mutual understand and communication", being assertive, etc etc.... Oddly in bed she loved to be dominated and treated like a slut. Yet one more case of a woman with an assertive and self-respecting "face" for unattractive men, and a submissive and slutty "face" for a attractive man.

And even an open self-declaration of psychopatic traits isn't a problem, even for a PHD psychologist educated in such stuff, if the woman finds the man attractive.

I think most self aware psychopaths are on PUA fourms and mostly they use a cope aswell saying my psychopathy makes my life amazing.

1. I think PUA community has many UN-aware psychopaths (and even more so - unaware narcissists).

2. "Cope"? In my case it's not cope - my psychopathy really works extremely well for me. I'm physically a 7/10, but I had many 9+ models "salivate" at the first sight of me. Of course I'm genuinely happy with it!

Outside of seduction, there are benefits as well - not as much glorious as the above, but still sometimes useful - ability to be calm under pressure, to ruthlessly judge, assess people and situations, ability to lie well...

For some reason, I have a "dangerous guy", "serial killer" vibe even when I'm not angry - while many other people with psychopatic traits don't have this or have it to a smaller degree. Without this vibe and it's effects (women "salivating"), it would be MUCH less fun for me, but still not something negative - being mentally tougher, more objectively-minded than a normal person, being able to lie well would still have their merits.

In the case of the "friend" I've mentioned in a previous post - the one who died before 40, who stole a police boat just for fun (), who had no loyalty and was borrowing money from friends, then got new friends and repeated the borrowing process - in his case I can see how psychopathy made his life unstable and probably caused his early death. But even he had benefits - he got laid easily with his superficial charm and he made new male friends easily as well.

Brah! No offense there is nothing at all i can learn from you amigo, with all due respect... Also you are projecting too much... You constantly downplay other proven methods and you claim a bunch of shit... I did get an idea of your game in your attempt to flirt in my bad cyber flirt with Asian babe... that style i seen through the years and posters like you through the year. No disrespect not impressed... I tried to look at your lrs unfortunately couldn't find out nor any practical posts...

You are attacking me and you're dishonest about it.

Like I said - I've seen experienced PUAs becoming envious and sour and:

I've seen their attempts to "fix" this sourness - by reinterpreting reality and finding some "faults", undermining other person's success, trying to convince themselves that things are in fact different than they are.

You behavior looks exactly like that.

Relevant to the post there are 2 guys extremely good at seduction one is cody lions cost of success aka cosy..

Then my brother the total opposite of me .. 360 opposite of any psycppatic behaviors...

They are both very sweet, caring in tune with women emotions super empathetic.... Both get easy seductions and women drooling, in case of my brother who was about to go to seminary to become a priest....big brother, fatherly role protectors... again i witness this type of style with my brother and he was not even running game but hot women chasing, he would piss me off...

What they had in common is that there was no agenda per se, they kind of remove desire but are extremely present... Super hard to explain... But the total opposite of any psychopath behavior.,.

And?

I don't claim that the "warm" style doesn't work - in fact, I do "warm" elements myself.

Many people have noticed that women are attracted to "badboys" - and a psychopath is a type of a "badboy". Of course being a "badboy" works, many people around the world have noticed it.

I found this interview below pretty intriguing. If the video is too long, you can also skim around to the highlights that interest you.

This guy was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, emotionally unstable personality disorder, and bipolar type 2 - warning: his case is on the severe end though, a bit scary just hearing the things he did...:

Interesting interview. I find some commonalities between me and that guy, but there are also differences. That guy seems to have a much more severe psychopathy in terms of being cut off from his emotions, while I'm actually quite emotional (and perhaps that's why I have a very expressive vibe).

He's uncomfortable with emotional closeness - I enjoy emotional closeness.

I was surprised when he said he didn't cheat - I did cheat.

When he said about being able to do bad things like murder, just choosing not to - I understand that perfectly.

His vibe in the interview is kind of like my vibe when I'm being nice. The photo and short clip from his youth (starting at 10:02) are more like my "badboy" vibe, but he's more like a angry, frustrated young guy, I'm more like a highly sexual BDSM/"serial killer" type.

He says that psychopaths experience only experience anger, frustration, irritability, with "all the nice ones gone" - not true in my case. I have a violent temper, I can get very angry easily, but I also have other emotions. But definitively anger, hate, vengefulness is something I have way above average. On the good side - I don't feel anxiety, fear like normal people (although oddly - I did feel these emotions when I was younger). What works as "fear" for me is actually a prediction of frustration - like I know that something might be bothersome, tiring, frustrating and I'm like "OMG that would be bothersome - I don't want that!".

Not caring about authority, not caring about people's opinions, no self-doubt - yes, same here. I have practical self-doubt like I know I could fail at certain things (like "would I manage to do tasks X and Y within 30 minutes? I doubt it") , but not an emotion of self-doubt.

I feel like I could be suddenly teleported to a porn movie shoot without any warning, any second of my life and I wouldn't be ashamed and I would do a splending job. Or I could be teleported to a celebrity's bed, with sex tape camera recording - and I would feel completely relaxed and natural.

At 24:18 there's a photo of his dad... Well, I think I have a "merciless" gaze like his dad... I'm pretty sure my gaze is more sexual and relaxed, but this "merciless" trait, "serial killer" gaze.... It reminds me of myself.

The main guys's photo at 31:20... I think his gaze here is bit wild and dangerous... But not cold, as many people would expect a psychopath's eyes to be.

OG Franco

March 2026

How To Seduce Like A Psychopath – Franco Seduction

Wow, great material!

Some quotes:

She will not tell you that she had with him the ride of a lifetime. She went through an unimaginable passionate and lustful time. He blew her mind. I remember how a girl was telling me her story of all the sufferings with a psychopath. Then she added: “but in bed, in bed he was amazing.” At the end he stole from her a huge amount of money.

Well, I don't steal money from women, so the matter ends with "in bed he was amazing" + "a pity it didn't last". No horror stories about the bad psychopath.

She can “sense” that.

Certainly whatever it is, some women can indeed "sense" that - within few seconds of first looking at me. And "salivate" just from looking.


Before scientists believed that psychopaths do not have empathy. That is not true. They do not have “hot” empathy. They lack of “emotional” empathy. What you feel seeing that little puppy dog beaten by the owner. When you see that old lady struggling with a heavy luggage. You feel certain feelings, you want to help. You are having “warm” empathy.

Psychopaths have empathy but it is not “hot” empathy it is “cold empathy.” Cold empathy is like a computer. The psychopath sees and understands what is going on inside her head. That happens without emotions. That way he will be able to detect what is her true nature. He will be then able to exploit it.

Oh actually I have some "hot" empathy - but it's selective and depends on the situation.


A famous researcher of psychopathy, Meloy, did an experiment. The experiment was on the fear induced by psychopaths.

He studied the physical reactions of the staff, when interviewing psychopaths.

Those were several physical sensations connected with fear. Uneasy stomach sensations, muscle trembling, sense of weakness, breathing problems, faster heart beating.

He interpreted that as an innate reaction to dealing with a predator. The staff could “feel” the predator, on a physical level.

Hahaha, this is EXACTLY what my best friend told me about. I wrote about this earlier in the thread:

<< My best friend says I have scary, "inhuman" eyes, "like a serial killer", "like a snake". He sometimes accidently get instinctively scared of me despite us being very good friends - it happens when he concentrates on something else and then gives me a random, casual glance. He says he then experiences a short moment of instinctive panic - he compares it to suddenly encountering a wild tiger close to his face. After a moment he realises the absurdity of that and calms down, but a moment of instinctive panic is there. >>

also the bouncers situation:

<< I had a situation once, when I was walking by a club with 3 bouncers outside. I was just passing by, I wasn't even considering entering the club or interacting with the bouncers in any way.... But I did gave them a random glance - like when somebody is walking down the street and is casually looking at buildings, cars, people, etc.... Very casual, random glance with no intention behind it.... And the 3 bouncers froze, like they were suddenly confronted with mortal danger... Like somebody pointed a gun on them or something. >>

My friend describes it as immediate, instinctive feeling which arrives very swiftly - BEFORE he has time to think about it.

And I have seen many women freeze, get stunned and "salivate" at the first sight of me - within few seconds of seeing me. I guess the actual internal proces might be taking only 0.5-1 second, and "few seconds" is the time needed for them to actually show it and for me to notice it.

But not all women react to me that way - I think there needs to be some kind of sensitivity on the woman's side. But the good part of that is that it also acts like a selection mechanism - I attract women who are highly sexual and submissive.


One thing: nature knows nothing about contraceptive measures or abort. From the point of view of her wild, primitive nature her brain is working with the only purpose of getting pregnant. Her instincts are in her brain…

I observe signs of "cum into me ASAP" desires. When we haven't spoken at all yet.

Yes, I guess biologically it's actually "get me pregnant ASAP".

BTW I never understood why Last Minute Resistance is a such a frequent topic among PUAs - I never got serious LMR.


A woman’s silly brain feels fear. She interprets: “He is a winner. He eliminates anyone.” She does not get into account that it means: including her, if needed.

I think women are wired to "disarm" the danger by being useful, submissive, sexually willing, full of admiration, etc etc. I think it's a "make him happy, so he doesn't kill me" instinctive survival mechanism.

Women treat me very well, are very supportive, etc etc.... And I really don't understand what are "shit tests" many people talk so much about. Seriously - shit tests are something I hear about in the internet, not something I experience in real life.

I see a difference, sometimes a huge one, between how women treat me and how they treat other men.

My girlfriend is psychopatic, with a rich history of heavy abuse towards her past partners... She enjoyed hitting them in the face drawing blood and did some really unpleasant sexual things.... And she's VERY proud of how viciously she abused them.

She says that when she thinks a slightest thought about disobedience, disrespect towards me, she feels like some violent, animalistic force from inside of her grabs her by the throat and "breaks her". And she suddenly feels totally submissive, wonderfully helpless...and horny. She describes the experience as ecstatic. So if she even thinks about resistance, it immediately makes her go hard into "please cum into me Sir, I'm your obedient slave" mode. And he LOVES it, it's a constant sexual bliss for her. And I don't have to do anything - she is "doing" that to herself.

We are together for years already and we never had an argument, she was never disrespectful towards me - 100% perfect behavior 100% of the time.

The same woman who was heavily abusing other men, is a super sweet, obedient, caring partner for me. No problems of any kind - if I want something changed in her behavior, she's happy to comply. I don't even know what I could improve in her behavior - I have no idea. If I knew, I would have told her and she would have done it already.

BTW People with PUA and/or Red Pill background often think I had to fight some heroic battle of domination with her... I didn't. She suspected I might be good in bed, so she wanted to test this in practice. We went to bed and she became my "devoted fan", fully decided to make a relationship happen. No shittests, no LMR, no problems. I already was in a relationship - not a problem, we can just fuck until I'm ready to dump my previous girlfriend. Oh and I didn't even game her, except accidentally. We just talked about things we find interesting - especially about sex. But it wasn't a simple case of "game her by talking about sex" thing - she did get strong instinctive sexual chemistry with me.

Another woman who is also a psychopath and a sadist, who loves doing dominant, sadistic BDSM on men, also was submissive and sweet towards me.

But also many "normal" women, who gave other men "normal", "mixed" treatment, also behaved super well towards me.

My impression from this is that women are far better "wired" for being super sweet to men they instinctively crave, than for having "normal relationships" with normal guys, who might be good partners in society's eyes, but aren't highly valued by the women's instincts.

This of course strongly resembles the old Alpha-Beta concept. Except here "Alpha" isn't a leader of men, but rather a male recognized by the woman's instincts as dangerous.

BTW I wonder how much the "Alpha-Beta" concept was distorted because of the wishful thinking of PUAs who were good in social games, but weak in the eyes of the instinct.

@CharmingPsychopath do you feel empathy? I am not educated on psychopaths. Like if someone is suffering in front of you, are you emotionally affected?

I do feel empathy, but it's selective, depends on situation.

But I hear some other psychopaths, with higher level of psychopathy, don't feel any empathy at all.

 

[empath]

Yes, at least some psychopatic people have a moral compass, but it works differently than morality of normal people.

Something might be a minor offence in the eyes of normal people, but could make a psychopatic person extremely angry. Possibly to the point of having an urge to kill the offender. And it feels to us like that impulse is morally right and that the other person deserves it.

As for guilt...

I feel guilt for times I acted like a selfish dick towards people I like, who didn't do anything bad against me, who I think deserved better. These weren't serious bad things, just selfishness, putting myself first too much, but I feel bad thinking about it and I regret it.

But I feel no guilt at all for much more serious things I have done to people I don't like, who have offended me, I think they deserved it (I think they deserved worse). And I feel good thinking about it, these are pleasant, satisfying memories.

I am curious what is the defining trait of psychopathy, cold empathy and callousness or being calm under pressure.

I think being calm under pressure or nerves of steel is also over blown and psychopath can also become neurotic, or some are more prone to be neurotic, even at the end of American psycho, when christian bale feels he is exposed he end up doing neurotic shit.