Seduction Oriented Topics

[Bacchus]

I'd like to start a discussion on seduction oriented topics.

If you've ever wondered which topics seducer's should discuss with women. . . look no further. Now, if you're a good conversationalist you already know the importance of steering towards fun and interesting topics when talking to girls. Perhaps you've listened to my podcast or read my articles on GirlsChase. . . then you're most likely familiar of the power of engaging with her emotions and imagination in your conversations.

Great conversationalists can do all of these things easily, not to mention use a multitude of frame control techniques instinctively.

On the other hand, seduction oriented topics or SOT's, take everything a step further. Because like the name implies, these topics naturally bring up useful thoughts, images and emotions in the minds of the women that will aid the process of seduction. By getting the hang of using SOT's effectively, you'll find more and more of your seductions proceeding smoothly. And in my experience, almost every girl I had a conversation involving just 2 SOT's followed me home to spread her legs with alacrity. . . I can actually count the near misses on one hand. Anway, let's start covering the strategic details. . .

Consider a topic like connection. . . like most SOT's it's fascinating and emotionally-charged.

What's more is by talking about connection, and using descriptive language centered around this topic. She will start thinking about feeling connected. Lush verbal descriptions of this particular SOT will get her imagining what it's like to develop a connection. She might even recall certain moments, where she felt this wonderful emotion. And because you're there as her emotions and imagination get involved in such a conversation. . .

She will then start to associate the feeling of connection with you. . . I'm sure you can imagine how beneficial this would be for your seductions.

For you to really make the most of the topic of connection. Or even other SOT's like. . . chemistry, passion, desire, anticipation, trusting your judgment, surrender, sexual maturity, sexual confidence, sensuality and living in the moment, you'll need efficient language tools you can boost your ability to evoke these emotions at will. As well as the type of effective conversation skills, allowing you to frame these topics in ways that benefit your ensuing seduction, and help make the type of associations you want her to make. And last but certainly not least, you must manage your conversations adeptly and steer them towards SOT's in a smooth, calibrated fashion. Here's an example of what I mean. . .


* * * * * *

“Isn’t it interesting how. . . the experience of meeting new people, can go in radically different ways?”

“Like you’ve met people and those conversations were dull and forgettable experiences. Other times it’s nice. . . you meet a cool, funny guy so maybe you find yourself becoming a bit curious about this guy. But every now and then. . . you meet someone and it goes incredibly well. It’s not hard to imagine developing a strong connection with this person.

And it feels exciting, because even with the abundance of information and cutting edge technology at our fingertips. . . connecting is still rare.”

“Sometimes you feel this connection almost instantly. Moments after meeting, you suddenly realize you’re on the same wavelength. As you talk, you can sense this person understands you on a deeper level. On the other hand, these genuine connections can also develop gradually. Where it’s like the more you find out about them, and the more time you spend talking. . . the more this feeling of connection grows.

Now with me. . . I’ve realized, when you can feel this powerful connection. You might even start to notice the passionate spark of chemistry.”

The above is an example of steering towards connection, from the topic of meeting new people.

After milking the topic of connection, to powerfully engage with her emotions and imagination, the example transitions into the topic of chemistry. Discussing passion and describing what it's like to develop passionate feelings. . . is also an option from that point in the conversation. Wouldn't it be great to to get her emotions involved in a conversation centered around passion?

Consider the advantages of a seducer who can describe how the intensity of passion can snowball once it's reciprocated? Or what kind of associations she could make once she imagines the transcendent experience of passionate sex?

Notice how closely related all of these topics are. And how they can just flow from one to the other, like in the example above.

Last month, I shared a lay report From Russia with Doggy Style. During that seduction, I took a conversation from the interesting yet innocuous topic of travelling. Through the emotionally scenic route of experiencing new cultures, immersing yourself in new ways of living, before discussing how different cultures express chemistry, like the touchy-feely sensuality of South American cultures. The girl replied with how she noticed eye contact flirting, is a prominent way to express chemistry various cultures. Which lead to us eye-fucking each other pretty intensely right after.

As the sexual tension increased, I touched on the importance of sexual confidence. But that's not the only route to take. . . in an earlier part of the same report I talked about how various cultures have different drinking ages. And how a lowered drinking age in certain cultures, can actually help the people reach a point of maturity at a faster rate. That's just one step away from another SOT. . . sexual maturity.

While connection is a relatively tame SOT that you could jump into pretty easily. Calibration and creating the right context, is extremely important for the more intense, risque and potentially provocative SOT's you might want to steer towards in your conversations.


* * * * * *


Now as we're heading towards the topic of managing conversations, it's worth mentioning that going ahead to memorize examples, or creating stacks and SOT gambits is not the best way to go about using this strategy. It's an unrealistic goal and here's why. . .

If you read the example in quotes above, you might notice important technical nuances that increase the effectiveness of this strategy. . . but there's no guarantee your conversations will always proceed in that step-by-step fashion. And like I said before, context is important here. So trying to stuff some memorized gambits into your conversation will come across as gamey or even extremely uncalibrated.

Remember it is a conversation, not a monologue. . . she will chime in with her thoughts and experiences.

So instead of following a map of rigid and stuffy directions, you want a flexible internal compass. This way you can be present in the conversation, while maintaining an acute awareness of seduction oriented topics that are contextually available for you to steer towards. Your frame-control will always be several times more effective, when you can make use of her feedback. That's another drawback of making stacks, you end up focusing on trying to remember them, or parroting memorized tech in your seductions, instead of being in the conversation.

Because this strategy much like seduction in the general sense, isn't something you do to her. . . it's a process you must walk through with her.

Adept seducers get into the minds of the women they seduce, and it will surprise you how often girls mention things that can point your conversations towards an SOT. When your internal compass is properly calibrated, you can even pick up hints that tell you which specific SOT would make a particular girl see you as a prize. Or induce the right type of emotional experience, that gives her exactly what she needs, not just to follow you home. . . but also to ensure a sexual experience devoid of any last-minute-resistance.

Unfortunately, a lot of seducers miss out on these benefits because they aren't paying attention to each girl they seduce.

To start developing your internal compass, it's crucial to understand how conversations work. This knowledge is the basis of managing conversations. Conversations generally progress from topic to topic, and each ensuing topic is usually some aspect of the previous or tangentially related to the last topic. So it's very helpful to familiarize yourself, with topics that are either closely related to, or different aspects of SOT's.

This gives you many more targets to work with, like marked points on your internal compass. Regular compasses have North, South, East and West marked out. You can have SOT's you're always aware of marked out. As you focus on managing your conversations with women in real time.

Questions? Comments? Something to add? Shoot. . .

 

[Pitcher]

Wow this is fascinating next level stuff! The way you outline the concept and explain it in detail is incredible dude. Definitely way more advanced than where I'm at, though I think I naturally do a little of this.

For you to really make the most of the topic of connection. Or even other SOT's like. . . chemistry, passion, desire, anticipation, trusting your judgment, surrender, sexual maturity, sexual confidence, sensuality and living in the moment, you'll need efficient language tools you can boost your ability to evoke these emotions at will. As well as the type of effective conversation skills, allowing you to frame these topics in ways that benefit your ensuing seduction, and help make the type of associations you want her to make. And last but certainly not least, you must manage your conversations adeptly and steer them towards SOT's in a smooth, calibrated fashion.

One thing to add - I've never read the book The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman, but I regularly bring it up when I'm on a meet up with a girl. I try to do it naturally like if she asks if I like receiving gifts or if I go a bit overboard with my kino and she seems uncomfortable with it. Anything that I can relate to one of the love languages really.

Here they are if anyone isn't familiar with this:

• receiving gifts
• quality time
• words of affirmation
• acts of service (devotion)
• physical touch/pleasure

You can link quality time to living in the moment/really being with someone when you're spending time with them.

You can link physical touch to sensuality, passion, desire, or anything sexual.

You could even link receiving gifts/acts of service to anticipation.

I usually talk about quality time and physical touch (which is why I go overboard with it sometimes, hard to control myself), those being the most important love languages for me. Now I'm going to view this topic as a kind of choose your own adventure and decide in the moment which emotion the girl needs and which SOT to bring up. Maybe others will benefit from this too?

With more awareness of these SOTs and some more competence with language skills to evoke these emotions my game is going to really improve!

Thank you @Bacchus!

 

[Bacchus]

Thanks for the compliment OSP. . . glad to hear you find this concept useful.

One thing to add - I've never read the book The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman, but I regularly bring it up when I'm on a meet up with a girl. I try to do it naturally like if she asks if I like receiving gifts or if I go a bit overboard with my kino and she seems uncomfortable with it. Anything that I can relate to one of the love languages really.

Here they are if anyone isn't familiar with this:

• receiving gifts
• quality time
• words of affirmation
• acts of service (devotion)
• physical touch/pleasure

You can link quality time to living in the moment/really being with someone when you're spending time with them.

You can link physical touch to sensuality, passion, desire, or anything sexual.

You could even link receiving gifts/acts of service to anticipation.

Nice addition here. . . I see potential in the topic of love languages, for some fascinating date conversations. And like you mentioned, there are a number of opportunities to move things toward various seduction oriented topics.

Connection is another SOT closely related to this topic. Because a common difference between disappointing and fulfilling relationships comes down to the strength of the male-female connection. And being in a relationship with partner who shares your love language, or can understand how to effectively communicate in accordance the love language you value. . . will definitely deepen the mutual feeling of connection.

Now I'm going to view this topic as a kind of choose your own adventure and decide in the moment which emotion the girl needs and which SOT to bring up.

As you become more experienced, and the more you develop your intuition. . . the easier it becomes to calibrate on the fly.

To develop your calibration-skills, bait girls into telling you their emotional needs. Say you're talking about the 5 love languages on a date. Get her to tell you which ones she values the most. Then move your conversation towards SOT's that correspond to her love language.

 

[Carousel]

The technology of SOTs is very beneficial for a related skill: Moving the conversation away from problematic or negative topics. This has purposes both in seduction, business settings or general social settings.

Many people are not even remotely aware of how their choices of topics or wording may steer the conversation of the other person or group in certain directions. Even if YOU have this knowledge, your target, coworkers, business partners or friends may be unaware of it and steer the conversation in a negative direction.

For example, somebody at work starts talking about a negative event on the news and suddenly everybody is depressed, or even worse, throwing insults at each other over some related charged topic. The fallout of this may affect YOU even if you did not participate. You may for example be forced to state your views and thus end with half your coworkers being mad at you, or being accused for cowardice or ignorance if you refuse.

In a seduction setting a woman may first bring up a negative topic or be in a negative state, and subsequently may proceed to force you to state your view on this topic, which may lead to a similar disaster as the group scenario above

Fortunately, you may prevent or remedy such failures with the use of SOTs and related technology.

The central point of SOTs is that you may 1) create a list of topics that often come up in conversations and 2) list beneficial and bad topics that are natural transitions from the common topics. And then you will go for transitioning towards the beneficial topics rather than the bad ones.

You can do this with both known problematic topics in lunch breaks at work and known problematic topics in seduction.

Example A:

Somebody complains about HILLARY CLINTON in the lunch break at work. You don't have to be very politically literate in order to see that this is a highly polarizing topic that may forebode a full nuclear exchange.

So I would just prevent this by saying that I found her husband to be rather ridiculous and compare his reaction to being framed in a sex scandal with how SILVIO BERLUSCONI of Italy just laughed off serious accusations of sex with late teenage prostitutes with highly trollish and colorful language. Now, this is more a laughable than polarizing topic here in Norway where I live, so the problem would be defused.

Example B:

Some chic in nightgame mentions METOO and that she hates all the men grabbing her ass at work and that we need more Feminism to counter such behavior. This would scare the shit out of a lot of inexperienced or intermediate guys.

I just grab the frame and say it is a shame that the average man in his 30s or 40s is a fat slob, unable to court a woman verbally before turning physical. And then proceed to run more of my verbals (FRAMEGRAB/CONTRAST/PRIZING. Multiple post can be written about each of these).

So your exercise is now:

Create lists of good and bad topics and list maybe 7 BENEFICIAL and 3 BAD ways these topics may turn into other topics, if not properly managed. It is a good idea to illustrate this with arrows. Then start turning conversations into your favor. And be sure to write down more topics as you get more experienced with what regularly comes up, and the optimal pathways of bridging them.

 

[Bacchus]

In a seduction setting a woman may first bring up a negative topic or be in a negative state, and subsequently may proceed to force you to state your view on this topic, which may lead to a similar disaster as the group scenario above

Fortunately, you may prevent or remedy such failures with the use of SOTs and related technology.

The central point of SOTs is that you may 1) create a list of topics that often come up in conversations and 2) list beneficial and bad topics that are natural transitions from the common topics. And then you will go for transitioning towards the beneficial topics rather than the bad ones.

You hit the bulls-eye with this reply Carousel. . .

Making smooth transitions away from negative topics. . . allows seducers to avoid the pitfalls of counter-productive conversations. You also touched on contrasting, the versatile technique of comparing and contrasting different aspects of a topic. This can be used in combination with pacing and leading for managing conversations in a nuanced and effective manner.

This combo strategy starts of with acknowledging the negative topic. . . in a way that shows understanding. Next you compare the negative with positive, fun or interesting aspects of that same topic. Then continue leading the conversation towards better areas. There are other ways to use this strategy too. Like reframing resistance, fleshing out good topics, or even making natural transitions into multiple SOT's.

The exercise you mention. . . is a great way for guys to learn how to start managing their conversations. After all, this a very powerful form of influence with a long list of advantages for seducers who take the time and effort to master this skill. . .

 

[K__]

The way I see it is you're trying to light up the helpful parts of her brain while avoiding lighting up unhelpful parts of her brain.

Even if a topic is interesting or exciting for her it might still be counter productive for seduction. For example, history, politics, philosophy, business, and other such topics may be interesting and even fascinating to some girls, but regardless of the girl they are universally anti-seductive topics. SOTs work because they light up her emotions, and her emotions are adjacent to her sexuality in a way that her "logical" brain is not.

The same thing goes for frames actually. You want to set the right frames while avoiding setting the wrong frames, or letting others/the environment set the wrong frames for you. Most of the time those frames already exist within the girl, you just need to bring them out.

 

[Glow]

Great post B - as always.

Ive similarly had girls starting to escalate on me after just a few SOTS and good fundamentals, leading things etc.

A few things i feel could add something on the application of SOTs - to give some perspective:

1) Adding something concrete - With the softer emotionally-feely subjects like anonymity, surrender and indulgence eg. i now like to add a concrete thing or example to the subject to stimulate thinking. This stimulates different parts of the brain than soft descriptions and will make it a lot more captivating. That said many women are more receptive to emotionally descriptory language and if we riff more alongside w her it becomes less of a need. still helps give form.​

Example1: soft version for gradual verbal progression​

Indulgence & Traveling​

i like to say that some peoples key motivation for traveling is to indulge in things(1/3 motivations) you know, you land, get out the plane and go straight to the hotel. You jump into a swimsuit then hit the beach. you arrive there - blue ocean ahead, the green palm trees against the blue sky. as you walk forw. you feel the warmth of the sand below your feet and as you plunge into the water you feel the freshness of it relinquishing you all over your body. Finally as you sit back in the sun into that soft cafee chair, tasting that coconut drink fully on your tongue.. you just indulge fully in that feeling of being on vacation... you let go, surrendering deeply into that feeling of release, of ahhhh. & You listen to that voice inside your head that says this is for you!​

Example2: more dramatic/stimulating (night game)​

Anonymity and Masks​

Glow:"I find it very interesting, what masks does to people"​

Girl: huh?​

Glow: "like if you are at a party where you dressed up.. how, as you walk around.. inside your mask.. feeling fun about noone knowing clearly who you are.. you look out through the eye holes as you walk.. and it makes you slowly feel... free..., anonymous. it liberates you.. if you allow it. The mask simply helps you... to let go of restrains and as you do... everything.. becomes... wilder, more fun. You dance wilder, you party harder, you just indulge more in your wild side.. the more you indulge, the more you let go. And the more you let go the more you free up and unfold. And the more you free up and unfold.. the more you indulge.. It builds up more... and more.. allowing you to let go... fully and become.. free or should we say.. what i call "ferociously liberated" ."​

Girl: "oh yeah, never thought of that but so true.."​

2) SOTs often precedes more explicit sex talk like 8 orgasms and the likes. (Doesnt have too - teevs has strong shifts with drama eg that work powerfully to hook in more stimulating night environments). Puts a soft angle on harder subjects. Thus its great to bring up to bring her into actual sex talk. Eg talking about going out to hookup culture to how chemistry between people to chemistry in sex type fantasies or experiences.​

....continuing from the preceding part in 1) not how i now go into more direct sextalk:​

Glow:"thing is.. it is even more interesting during sex." ( intrigue bait)​

Girl: oh, how is that?​

Glow:"well.. i recently spoke to a female friend who told me about how.. as you take on the mask, just being naked and having the mask on, you feel.. the release of being inside it.. covered by its sides.. it frees you up. You let go.. of something. And you do so... in between the sheets, the feeling of the fabric on your leg, the mask on your head. You allow a more kinky side to arise. desires from deep down surfaces and you just allow him to take your more, you ride harder, your surrender more into his arms. Everything becomes more.. freed up. More wild. You indulge deeper. And all it takes... is.. a mask!​

Glow: Do you like halloween? /or shift topic to fractionate out​

-----​

Just riffing roughly here but you get the idea.​

See https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/super-saiyan-4-7-secret-technique-show-her-the-leash.21687/​

3) SOTS are great to use alongside escalation as it smoothens escalation up and provide the moments from which escalation flows naturally. eg talking about sexual tension as you create it. or sensations as you slightly caress her.​

4) SOTs is a key in creating a sensual as well as a pre-sensual bubble - i have mini-isolated girls so many places in the midst of social groups with these as it draws them in hook wise. But importantly into a deeper sensual bubble. This takes them into sexual states and sexual activation or just on the tipping point of getting there (sometimes time is needed here).​

5) SOTs are even stronger when you spin them of something the girls say, or nudge them to talking about. any slight lead they give you can nudge towards SOT talks. Bacchus mentions doing this as part of a convo but i just wanna emphasis to doing it this way as it enhances the power of it and you will see the girl be more blown away.​

6) Combining SOTS w. sexual frames is my favorite power cocktail these days, which enables the SOTS even more while freeing up the girls around you. this will make them feel even more free to escalate ON you and lash onto the path you lay out in front of her (which is another key). im specifically talking about using sexual frames captain jack style, not sexual framing as a more adaptive framing technique to steer and influence which we often discuss.​

Just my experiences from field application and perspectives and a few pointers from late times i figured could provide something.
Writing a bit late & semi-fast so have mercy on me

 

[Bacchus]

The way I see it is you're trying to light up the helpful parts of her brain while avoiding lighting up unhelpful parts of her brain.

Exactly. This is a great summary K__

Even if a topic is interesting or exciting for her it might still be counter productive for seduction. For example, history, politics, philosophy, business, and other such topics may be interesting and even fascinating to some girls, but regardless of the girl they are universally anti-seductive topics.

Yeah topics like history and politics don't provide a great context to run the 3 keys.

On the other hand, like Carousel mentioned it would be helpful for seducers to learn how to navigate from those topics, towards SOT's or other topics that can help seducers covertly arouse and emotionally stimulate women or set good frames. To avoid getting stuck in dead-end conversations that wouldn't do much for a seduction. . . even with strong frame-control and hypnotic tech.

SOTs work because they light up her emotions, and her emotions are adjacent to her sexuality in a way that her "logical" brain is not.

The same thing goes for frames actually. You want to set the right frames while avoiding setting the wrong frames, or letting others/the environment set the wrong frames for you. Most of the time those frames already exist within the girl, you just need to bring them out.

Agreed and with precise conversation-skills, navigating to seduction oriented topics provides seducer's with the opportunity to set good frames, emotionally stimulate and sexually arouse women. Often times you can even pull off all 3 with just SOT. . .

 

[Roundy]

I wonder what body language you use when delivering these very intense, sexual words to a woman. I've tested some gambits and personally found the most success with saying things about how I wish women did not feel such judgement when they want to express their sexuality, if I say it casually, nonchalantly. I only even look her in the eyes when I hit the crucial point of what I'm saying. Otherwise it's like I'm being too obvious, which triggers ASD. Also I wonder what your thoughts are w/r/t grandmaster type gambits, like making offhand jokes about how women only want to use you for your enormous cock, etc. I've personally found this is an extraordinarily powerful way to covertly put sexual images in her mind while still having some plausible deniability. Also a lot of naturals seem to communicate this way.

 

[Bacchus]

A few things i feel could add something on the application of SOTs - to give some perspective:

This post is an excellent addition to the SOT discussion Glow. . .

I especially like these clarification points. . . on how to make the best use of SOT's once you've steered the conversation towards one. I'm also sure a lot of guys will find your conversation examples valuable for getting the hang of this hypnotically poetic way of speaking.

1) Adding something concrete - With the softer emotionally-feely subjects like anonymity, surrender and indulgence eg. i now like to add a concrete thing or example to the subject to stimulate thinking. This stimulates different parts of the brain than soft descriptions and will make it a lot more captivating. That said many women are more receptive to emotionally descriptory language and if we riff more alongside w her it becomes less of a need. still helps give form.

Yes in these types of conversations. . . it's important to stimulate the conscious mind as well as the subconscious mind. By giving her something concrete whether it's a frame to consider, descriptive submodalities, or even making use of listing to give the conversation a story-telling vibe where you can paint an interesting picture for her conscious mind. . . as you covertly engage with and direct the emotions of the subconscious.

2) SOTs often precedes more explicit sex talk like 8 orgasms and the likes. (Doesnt have too - teevs has strong shifts with drama eg that work powerfully to hook in more stimulating night environments). Puts a soft angle on harder subjects. Thus its great to bring up to bring her into actual sex talk. Eg talking about going out to hookup culture to how chemistry between people to chemistry in sex type fantasies or experiences.

Another good tactical point. I know lots of seducers struggle with making transitions into sex-talk in their conversations. . . SOT's can help this process. Since most of the more sexually-charged SOT's are just a step or two away from explicit sex talk.

So once you can navigate towards a seduction oriented topic. . . you've already set up a smooth transition into sex-talk. Like in the example you gave with anonymity into kinky sex. An exercise I'd recommend for guys who'd like to get a better handle on this process is split up an SOT into different aspects and take note of the aspects bring opportunities to set sexual frames. . . or fan the flames of desire with arousal-pumping sex-talk.

Then practice making these transitions out loud. . . get the hang of steering from one aspect to the next. As you practice changing directions when talking about SOT's out loud you'll notice how easy it becomes. . . to navigate towards sex-talk in your conversations with women.

6) Combining SOTS w. sexual frames is my favorite power cocktail these days, which enables the SOTS even more while freeing up the girls around you. this will make them feel even more free to escalate ON you and lash onto the path you lay out in front of her (which is another key). im specifically talking about using sexual frames captain jack style, not sexual framing as a more adaptive framing technique to steer and influence which we often discuss.

I'm curious to hear more about this strategy of mixing SOT's with Captian Jack's style of setting sexual frames.

When I use SOT's to set sexual frames. . . I usually set the frame using the SOT kind of like a stepping stone. Then I describe a number of positive feelings for her to associate with said frame. . . all the while linking these feelings to myself.

 

[Watts]

I wonder what body language you use when delivering these very intense, sexual words to a woman. I've tested some gambits and personally found the most success with saying things about how I wish women did not feel such judgement when they want to express their sexuality, if I say it casually, nonchalantly. I only even look her in the eyes when I hit the crucial point of what I'm saying. Otherwise it's like I'm being too obvious, which triggers ASD.

You might perceive it this way because of your own discomfort with your sexuality or role as a seducer. If you see your sexuality as a gift and nothing to be ashamed about, you may worry less about this.

If that is the case, then it can also be your anxiety around the subject or process that is triggering her anxiety (which manifest as ASD). It's why con men are always so calm and confident. There's a line from the movie "House of Games", which is about con men, where he explains it perfectly:

"It's called a confidence game. Why, because you give me your confidence? No: because I give you mine."

Something to think about.

And also, I personally believe it's my right, my role, and even my duty as a man to seduce women. That it's how nature designed us. And, that in order for civilization to even continue we men have to go out and create romantic connections with women (so that will one day we can have children). Have you heard the birth rate is steadily declining in western civilization? Better get to fucking!

Also I wonder what your thoughts are w/r/t grandmaster type gambits, like making offhand jokes about how women only want to use you for your enormous cock, etc. I've personally found this is an extraordinarily powerful way to covertly put sexual images in her mind while still having some plausible deniability. Also a lot of naturals seem to communicate this way.

If that particular way works for you, great! Keep doing it!

I would find a joke about my "enormous cock" to be off-brand, and I wouldn't do it. In fact, whenever I've had my cock brought up in any scenario, I've always claimed to have a very small or micropenis, in some funny way. And, as a result of that, I've also had girls convinced I must be "huge". Your results may be different.

What I do like to do in the realm of sexual and funny, is to use humor to get a pass to discuss sexual topics either more directly or earlier.

Ex. Last night I met a girl who asked me my age. After I told her, I asked her her's. She responds "I'm 21 (we were in a bar), but I know I look 16 (or some young age, I don't remember)". So I respond "Well your face looks 18, but your ass looks 25 (she had a great ass), so I'd say it balances out to 21." She laughed at this, and it provided me a way to be sexually explicit.

Someone who has some good moments with that (not all the time), in my mind, of being the funny pervert, is Charlemagne the God. Someone who I think is even better, but a more refined style is Russell Brand. Also, check out the YaReally Archive if you haven't already.

All that being said, I think the point of this topic is how to be sexual through hacking comfort and rapport. Essentially figuring out the girl's mental models and shooting straight to the sexual topics she'll accept / be interested in. Humor allows you to be sexual too, but this is actually more precise and more reliable, I don't always have something funny and sexual to say (not to mention, humor can fall flat if it doesn't seem spontaneous) but I do see myself having several go to SOT routines (and I do create routines otherwise).

But the highest level, above routines, is mastery of topic so you can riff (as they discussed above). It's like the difference between giving a prepared lecture and having 20 years hard experience in the career, the later can just respond to anything.

Edit: I forgot to mention, you should consider focusing less on so called "naturals" and what they do. Most of them are just doing a "spray and pray" approach, and their results are buoyed by picking off warm leads in their extended social circles (which they spend a great deal of time to maintain). That's not to mention that they're more likely to be some combination of tall, muscular and good looking, while mostly hooking up with the 6's and 7's that throw themselves at them (and the occasionally 8+ who endeavors to "domesticate" them for a while, haha). In other words, most underperform in terms of game relative to the other advantages they have going for them.

Like, a male 9 yelling about his enormous cock until some 6 takes him up on the offer isn't exactly a model I'd want to emulate! lol

 

[Glow]

This post is an excellent addition to the SOT discussion Glow. . .

Thanks - good posts creates good responses.

I'm curious to hear more about this strategy of mixing SOT's with Captian Jack's style of setting sexual frames.

When I use SOT's to set sexual frames. . . I usually set the frame using the SOT kind of like a stepping stone. Then I describe a number of positive feelings for her to associate with said frame. . . all the while linking these feelings to myself.

ok interesting- what could an example be - just to understand clearly?

Where i tend to use SOTS is to flip her from sorta skeptical/attitude state into more flirty and "bubbled" state. I use it often to take authority on a particular aspect she brings up (through my elicitation ).
The sexual frames i use tend to liberate girls around me.
So firstly she is impressed and becomes fascinated with me in a sensual or light-sensual way. then i liberate her to feel more free around me.

Example:
Yesterday i talked to a chick about being in the moment (SOT) based on her bringing it up as the setoff for their night. I paced it, responded with emotionally descriptive lines & then i gave her a recipe for managing it by talking about that ...the interesting thing is.. you cant plan spontaneousness like this... BUT ive noted that its very much about expectations... more specifically not having any. i then talk about how the removal of these and just stepping into the moment of the night with no expectations opens up more moments that continues as an unfolding thing. I describe it more but you get my thoughts im sure. She flipped like a pancake from being skeptical sorta on the back heel to being flirty and challenging in a feisty good way (female more feisty type flirt).

i then talked shortly after about my NY friend who likes to dress more sexually, in a sophisticated manner. i describe going out w her in a full body suit - a red see through that just teases the eye in all the right ways. I say that i appreciate it, especially knowing its hard as a woman today with the shaming. for me it makes me relax sexually too which is very nice to be around.

So the SOT flips her into being initially sexually activated and flirty, and the sexual frame liberates her around me cause she feels i will like and acknowledge if and when she is sexually expressive. Sexual frames like that slowly gives her a clear indication i have the right and safe behaviour around sexuality and that i am a sexual capacity. So beyond being tempting, and arousing her in undertones and SOT innuendo - i also liberate her through the frames.

It is my thesis these two makes her more engaging than either alone making her escalate more on me and engage in the escalation. I dont wanna conclude anything there yet though as its just a few examples. But they seem more eager for some reason.

 

[Roundy]

You might perceive it this way because of your own discomfort with your sexuality or role as a seducer. If you see your sexuality as a gift and nothing to be ashamed about, you may worry less about this.

If that is the case, then it can also be your anxiety around the subject or process that is triggering her anxiety (which manifest as ASD). It's why con men are always so calm and confident. There's a line from the movie "House of Games", which is about con men, where he explains it perfectly:

"It's called a confidence game. Why, because you give me your confidence? No: because I give you mine."

Something to think about.

And also, I personally believe it's my right, my role, and even my duty as a man to seduce women. That it's how nature designed us. And, that in order for civilization to even continue we men have to go out and create romantic connections with women (so that will one day we can have children). Have you heard the birth rate is steadily declining in western civilization? Better get to fucking!



If that particular way works for you, great! Keep doing it!

I would find a joke about my "enormous cock" to be off-brand, and I wouldn't do it. In fact, whenever I've had my cock brought up in any scenario, I've always claimed to have a very small or micropenis, in some funny way. And, as a result of that, I've also had girls convinced I must be "huge". Your results may be different.

What I do like to do in the realm of sexual and funny, is to use humor to get a pass to discuss sexual topics either more directly or earlier.

Ex. Last night I met a girl who asked me my age. After I told her, I asked her her's. She responds "I'm 21 (we were in a bar), but I know I look 16 (or some young age, I don't remember)". So I respond "Well your face looks 18, but your ass looks 25 (she had a great ass), so I'd say it balances out to 21." She laughed at this, and it provided me a way to be sexually explicit.

Someone who has some good moments with that (not all the time), in my mind, of being the funny pervert, is Charlemagne the God. Someone who I think is even better, but a more refined style is Russell Brand. Also, check out the YaReally Archive if you haven't already.

All that being said, I think the point of this topic is how to be sexual through hacking comfort and rapport. Essentially figuring out the girl's mental models and shooting straight to the sexual topics she'll accept / be interested in. Humor allows you to be sexual too, but this is actually more precise and more reliable, I don't always have something funny and sexual to say (not to mention, humor can fall flat if it doesn't seem spontaneous) but I do see myself having several go to SOT routines (and I do create routines otherwise).

But the highest level, above routines, is mastery of topic so you can riff (as they discussed above). It's like the difference between giving a prepared lecture and having 20 years hard experience in the career, the later can just respond to anything.

Edit: I forgot to mention, you should consider focusing less on so called "naturals" and what they do. Most of them are just doing a "spray and pray" approach, and their results are buoyed by picking off warm leads in their extended social circles (which they spend a great deal of time to maintain). That's not to mention that they're more likely to be some combination of tall, muscular and good looking, while mostly hooking up with the 6's and 7's that throw themselves at them (and the occasionally 8+ who endeavors to "domesticate" them for a while, haha). In other words, most underperform in terms of game relative to the other advantages they have going for them.

Like, a male 9 yelling about his enormous cock until some 6 takes him up on the offer isn't exactly a model I'd want to emulate! lol

This is an excellent response, Watts. I hadn’t exactly considered myself as insecure about sex per se, but I can see that this approach is very relaxed and open about all kinds of sexuality and transferring that emotion onto a girl would be a strong tool.

Also, the penis jokes I’ve found to be something I dislike, that just seem to work unusually well. I’ve had women still be talking about it years later, it’s bizarre. Though I agree that it’s a bit off topic, my bad.

What you say about naturals is very true. I know guys who are tall, handsome and well built who typically sleep with average to unattractive women. I want to emulate more of Bacchus’ and Alek’s style, I just guess a lot of trial and error is needed to strike the right tone with them. I’ve found the times I have used them to be quite memorable, and I think a lot of these dialogues come from the heart when you have experience as a seducer. Like you genuinely do dislike slut shaming, and value sexual maturity.

 

[Watts]

i then talked shortly after about my NY friend who likes to dress more sexually, in a sophisticated manner. i describe going out w her in a full body suit - a red see through that just teases the eye in all the right ways. I say that i appreciate it, especially knowing its hard as a woman today with the shaming. for me it makes me relax sexually too which is very nice to be around.

So the SOT flips her into being initially sexually activated and flirty, and the sexual frame liberates her around me cause she feels i will like and acknowledge if and when she is sexually expressive. Sexual frames like that slowly gives her a clear indication i have the right and safe behaviour around sexuality and that i am a sexual capacity. So beyond being tempting, and arousing her in undertones and SOT innuendo - i also liberate her through the frames.

I actually LOVE this idea that someone else being relaxed and expressive with their sexuality also makes me relaxed and expressive (instead of the standard guy response to be horny and aggressive).

I'm actually going to work this into a routine and try it next weekend.

Also perhaps useful, if she isn't relaxed and you two are soon to be sexual, you might doubt if she's giving consent. The ideal situation is both people are relaxed, expressive and enthusiastic. So that could be another connection (you mentioned women being shamed), to anchor the idea.

Edit: I'll actually add one more connection. I'll often say a girl looks "sexy while still being classy" when I can see she has a good fashion sense, knows how to dress her body, and is more or less "getting it right" in my estimate of how an attractive woman should present herself. This can also be used (I feel) in conjunction with the "relaxed and expressive sexuality" idea.

 

[Watts]

Also, the penis jokes I’ve found to be something I dislike, that just seem to work unusually well. I’ve had women still be talking about it years later, it’s bizarre. Though I agree that it’s a bit off topic, my bad.

If there is something that has worked well for you, please don't stop doing it because I told you it might not work for me! You know yourself much better than I ever could!

One question though, are these women who talk about it years later ones you have sex with and keep around, or ones who stay in your extended social circle or who you just see out at random times?

I ask that, because to me working means what leads to penis in vagina. And it's also possible that while they find it funny, they didn't feel like it made you fuckable. Or maybe they did, in which case keep doing it! And just find a way to keep it consistent whatever style you adapt.

I don't know how it would go over if @Bacchus went from smooth talking seducer to making a joke about his "enormous cock", I just know I'd pay to be there to see it! (the joke, not the .... nevermind)

What you say about naturals is very true. I know guys who are tall, handsome and well built who typically sleep with average to unattractive women. I want to emulate more of Bacchus’ and Alek’s style, I just guess a lot of trial and error is needed to strike the right tone with them. I’ve found the times I have used them to be quite memorable, and I think a lot of these dialogues come from the heart when you have experience as a seducer. Like you genuinely do dislike slut shaming, and value sexual maturity.

You're right. And also there is a feedback loop, experience -> theory -> experience -> theory. KJ's get stuck in theory only. Naturals, experience. You should be working on both.

For now, while you accumulate experience, think more about the nature of slut shaming, if you're the one "sluts" have sex with, do you want them to be shamed? How about if they don't want to have sex with you (for their fun), then do you want them to be shamed (into committing to a boring guy)? What side are you on?

Figuring out your sexual politics, which should probably very open about sexuality and not about restricting women, will help get this figured out internally. I'm sure someone more familiar with this can point you to some articles on Girls Chase that would be useful for this.

 

[Bacchus]

ok interesting- what could an example be - just to understand clearly?

Using SOT's as a jump-off point. I've told girls something along the lines of. . .

“Most people around the world. . . and lots of people in clubs are just so boring, dull and unenthusiastic. It's so much better to find yourself with these people who have passion, sensuality and enthusiasm for life.”

A pretty simple frame, prizing by contrasting people with passion/sensuality against the boring masses. Then one girl in particular replied with something about how she saw herself as a passionate person. So I followed up with. . .

“Great! And when you find yourself with these. . . passionate people it feels good. Because this feeling is mutual and reciprocated. Both of you can feel this passion and chemistry. As it snowballs. . . growing bigger. . . and feeding off each other. . . on this loop. The more time you spend. . . with this person. The more passionate. . . you become. You even start to notice this sense of desire. . .”

Lots of pleasurable emotions in there. Building off the concept of mutuality in passion. . . and using it to get her hot and bothered. All the while I make use of verbal and non-verbal linking tech. . . to associate these feelings to myself.

Where i tend to use SOTS is to flip her from sorta skeptical/attitude state into more flirty and "bubbled" state. I use it often to take authority on a particular aspect she brings up (through my elicitation ).
The sexual frames i use tend to liberate girls around me.
So firstly she is impressed and becomes fascinated with me in a sensual or light-sensual way. then i liberate her to feel more free around me.

Example:
Yesterday i talked to a chick about being in the moment (SOT) based on her bringing it up as the setoff for their night. I paced it, responded with emotionally descriptive lines & then i gave her a recipe for managing it by talking about that ...the interesting thing is.. you cant plan spontaneousness like this... BUT ive noted that its very much about expectations... more specifically not having any. i then talk about how the removal of these and just stepping into the moment of the night with no expectations opens up more moments that continues as an unfolding thing. I describe it more but you get my thoughts im sure. She flipped like a pancake from being skeptical sorta on the back heel to being flirty and challenging in a feisty good way (female more feisty type flirt).

i then talked shortly after about my NY friend who likes to dress more sexually, in a sophisticated manner. i describe going out w her in a full body suit - a red see through that just teases the eye in all the right ways. I say that i appreciate it, especially knowing its hard as a woman today with the shaming. for me it makes me relax sexually too which is very nice to be around.

So the SOT flips her into being initially sexually activated and flirty, and the sexual frame liberates her around me cause she feels i will like and acknowledge if and when she is sexually expressive. Sexual frames like that slowly gives her a clear indication i have the right and safe behaviour around sexuality and that i am a sexual capacity. So beyond being tempting, and arousing her in undertones and SOT innuendo - i also liberate her through the frames.

It is my thesis these two makes her more engaging than either alone making her escalate more on me and engage in the escalation. I dont wanna conclude anything there yet though as its just a few examples. But they seem more eager for some reason.

This is beautiful Glow. . . I really like your application of this particular SOT. I've used descriptions of living in the moment to re-frame token resistance. When girls ask if going to bed with them, was part of my plan or bring up sexual expectations. I say something like. . .

“I think that putting those sort of expectations on things is often a mistake. . .

Expectations lead to pressure, disappointment and other negative experiences. . . it’s so much better to just go with the flow, finding yourself in these moments having fun, feeling relaxed and. . . see what happens. Without any expectations. . . this is how I live my life.”

Usually nudges girls into a helpful emotional head-space for having sex. But your application of this SOT is polished and more nuanced. . .

It brings her into a sexually activated state of mind. . . and you present an opportunity for her to go further into this state. By making use of tight frame-control you show her a new perspective on expressed sexuality. . . especially when it's expressed with you. Not to mention she feels a sense of compulsion to rise to the challenge of following in your NY friend's footsteps. Great stuff. . .

 

[Glow]

I actually LOVE this idea that someone else being relaxed and expressive with their sexuality also makes me relaxed and expressive (instead of the standard guy response to be horny and aggressive).

I'm actually going to work this into a routine and try it next weekend.

Also perhaps useful, if she isn't relaxed and you two are soon to be sexual, you might doubt if she's giving consent. The ideal situation is both people are relaxed, expressive and enthusiastic. So that could be another connection (you mentioned women being shamed), to anchor the idea.

Edit: I'll actually add one more connection. I'll often say a girl looks "sexy while still being classy" when I can see she has a good fashion sense, knows how to dress her body, and is more or less "getting it right" in my estimate of how an attractive woman should present herself. This can also be used (I feel) in conjunction with the "relaxed and expressive sexuality" idea.

Interesting thing you point to.

On your initial note i just wanna say i think me being relaxed is more of an extra side thing in it for me. For me its more about what it primes her to do and what that space for her points to on me than what i say that is where the power of it lies imo. It provides her cues to how the sex to happen will be and how she can feel in that around me - free to express, be enjoyed in that, and relax in it = the recipee for deep surrender while being something to be adored. The subtle cues she puts onto me from the priming i provide tells her a lot about me. that said its an important detail of being precise and display a receptiveness between the lines that adds to it all. But looking forw. to see how you enact it. Im sure you can point to something totally different. Just my two cents.

You Inspired some further ideas with your soon to be sexual connection - im thinking along lines of sexual weness, connected chemistry and the likes which points back to SOTS, maybe under the relaxed lovemaking frame - that of deep surrender, female beauties true role in it etc. How it shapes the sexual space i build up between us for the endeavour of the night.. details of whats to come. Sorry writing from experience and feel here so might be a bit clouded but im sure you get my drift.

I could add a lot more on expressiveness and sexuality but will make a new post on sexual frames instead to leave this focussed on SOTS.

 

[Glow]

Using SOT's as a jump-off point. I've told girls something along the lines of. . .

“Most people around the world. . . and lots of people in clubs are just so boring, dull and unenthusiastic. It's so much better to find yourself with these people who have passion, sensuality and enthusiasm for life.”

A pretty simple frame, prizing by contrasting people with passion/sensuality against the boring masses. Then one girl in particular replied with something about how she saw herself as a passionate person. So I followed up with. . .

“Great! And when you find yourself with these. . . passionate people it feels good. Because this feeling is mutual and reciprocated. Both of you can feel this passion and chemistry. As it snowballs. . . growing bigger. . . and feeding off each other. . . on this loop. The more time you spend. . . with this person. The more passionate. . . you become. You even start to notice this sense of desire. . .”

Lots of pleasurable emotions in there. Building off the concept of mutuality in passion. . . and using it to get her hot and bothered. All the while I make use of verbal and non-verbal linking tech. . . to associate these feelings to myself.

Got you,

And off we go on Desire related talks how a quite unique form of desire forms when passion is also there between you and the guy...

Nice usage of contrasting as part of a buildup of emotion btw.

This is beautiful Glow. . . I really like your application of this particular SOT. I've used descriptions of living in the moment to re-frame token resistance. When girls ask if going to bed with them, was part of my plan or bring up sexual expectations. I say something like. . .

“I think that putting those sort of expectations on things is often a mistake. . .

Expectations lead to pressure, disappointment and other negative experiences. . . it’s so much better to just go with the flow, finding yourself in these moments having fun, feeling relaxed and. . . see what happens. Without any expectations. . . this is how I live my life.”

Usually nudges girls into a helpful emotional head-space for having sex. But your application of this SOT is polished and more nuanced. . .

It brings her into a sexually activated state of mind. . . and you present an opportunity for her to go further into this state. By making use of tight frame-control you show her a new perspective on expressed sexuality. . . especially when it's expressed with you. Not to mention she feels a sense of compulsion to rise to the challenge of following in your NY friend's footsteps. Great stuff. . .

Nicely caught. Didnt even see that myself. But on retrospect yes it has worked to do so on girls w more punch. More hesitant girls have been more admiring-impressed but also blown away. So just important to use this sexual frame when she has a more unfolding energy, and confidence.