Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

[Brassfaced_Jim]

FYI I also told him he doesn’t have to BANG them .. just use them for practice,
Experiment w them.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

It’s funny talking my friend about chicks and dating. He’s spend approx $5k + on coaches over the years. I’ve been giving him better advice for free but he won’t listen . Lol

he’s fixated on this idea of ‘High Confidence’. Recalling times where he was in ‘flow’ ie his confidence was high and it made a difference in his interactions. But he didn’t get lays just perceived positive feedback from women. Or so he thinks.
And fixated on the topics he talks about on dates w women and what to avoid in convo,

whereas I’m looking at him from the outside. And thinking the following (as per Neil Strauss book and some of what he wrote in the early sections )

My advice - dude, take all your clothes and burn them immediately. Shave your head it’s beyond thinning out. Buy shoes with lifts.

spend $1k on some chick fashion consultant , tell her make me a sexy older guy’ and go shopping w her, and use half the money to buy the clothes she picks out to make you a sexy guy. Start with step 1 -‘the makeover ‘

then go approach. and work on the mindset and some techniques, like teasing.
( he is adverse to teasing)

I tell him this stuff. But he won’t listen, I said chuck me $100 for it if it makes him feel better and listen up.

but he won’t do either. Haha

 

[D. Gately]

none of it is useful for the girls who just aren't attracted to you. Not at all receptive. And, depending on your 'fundamentals' and their age relative to yours

I mean, as WIA has posted, that's what seduction *is*. Not just sleeping with the Yes girls, that's just pick-up, she give you IOIs right off the bat, you smoothly sit down, chat, take her home after a drink, she's wet and screaming your name, etc.

The whole point of seduction is getting the girls who aren't giving you positive signals from the jump. That's where push-pull, teasing, kino, backturns, chick-crack, etc can flip her around.
Every intermediate-level seducer has pulled an amber or red-light girl who punched him in the arm and called him an 'asshole,' while laughing, during a seduction.

I mean if she has 0.0% interest, then that's fine, nobody is saying you can get every girl you meet, she has a bf she loves deeply, you're not 7' tall, etc, but there's a lot of girls btw 0 and 100% you can seduce.

Any chick who's not a complete stop sign you can try to seduce and, at a minimum, learn something.
Of course there's no bonus to playing on hard mode, so go after the hottest ones you can get if in a rich target environment.

The overwhelming amount of single chicks simply don't care if you're older, only about attraction and trust. Probably only 20% or so care enough to screen you out. And there's at least 20% who *prefer* an older guy, at least in large cities.

Even if solely for a ONS.

 

[famineofcrows]

The whole point of seduction is getting the girls who aren't giving you positive signals from the jump

I know that's the theory, but in reality, If a girl is cold and not into the open (which is very obvious if one is paying attention) then it never goes anywhere. Even with 'pushpull' etc.
And it's the same for infields with the coaches (as mentioned before. The receptive girls can be laid and the ones who are hostile or cold end up in the 'rejection compilation' of their products). It's always obvious whether the interaction is gonna go anywhere for him or not extremely early. They end up getting the ones who are giving possible signals off the bat. Even if they're somewhat subtle

Based on what i've seen on infields and coaches and with myself, I feel like there's
1/girls who aren't attracted to you. They don't think you're hot and you're not her type and the best 'game' with pushpull and backturns and chick crack and all the rest wouldn't help at all (they are cold on the open. Bad body language etc. Not asking you things. Maybe rude etc)
2/girls who are attracted. But you still need some 'game' to not mess it up (typically be somewhat receptive. Not all over you but helping the convo flow and accepting the frame that this is a man to woman interaction)
3/girls who are very attracted; You can get away with a lot of 'mistakes' here and still seal the deal (they light up like a Christmas tree and will often even initiate the flirting etc)

 

[famineofcrows]

Yes this is all true. It is still a numbers game of being her attractive type somewhat,
If it’s not there , it can’t be created via Gaming her.

This, basically

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

This, basically

Yes, BUT.. if it’s there ,but there’s constraints for her to go with it..then that’s where game/persuasion are most useful.

- if attraction is there, but she’s busy or had something else on her mind. But he is a suave charmer and makes it irresistible.

- If it’s there, but it’s a closed and high sensory environment like a bar /club, and she w her friends watching, but he makes an impact and proposes something indirectly thats irresistible that night,

for example, a chick may meet 2 guys who are relatively equal ‘her type’ in looks.
but one guy is playing the game/frame of the traditional dating process.
Whereas the other is more perceptive , has better intuition and meets her where she’s at. Cos maybe she doesn’t want to wait that long. Maybe her last bf was boring (or whatever). Maybe she’s hanging for a romance , or the thrill of a bit of danger , or whatever.

All forms of ‘having game’ w women.
And a real ‘seducer’ type is a great reader and observer of people and especially women. He’s got great intuition of what they may be looking for.

not claiming to be that myself. Perhaps sometimes. But have met such guys and they are very perceptive socially.
One such friend said to me once “ it’s all a Game dude, all of it, Life Is A Game,”
Pretty true that.

Thats the general gist.

 

[D. Gately]

I know that's the theory, but in reality, If a girl is cold and not into the open (which is very obvious if one is paying attention) then it never goes anywhere.

This is simply not true, but go ahead with your self-limiting beliefs. You keep talking about 'infields' and 'coaches' like that has anything to do with reality. Who cares about them? Keep giving up after < 10 seconds.

Imagine thinking a [hot] girl with poor body language to start, and possibly rude can't be gotten. Ever heard of New York City? Or Miami?

It's always the newbies who have the need to immediately tell everyone here what can and what can't possibly ever work. But hey, you watched a lot of videos.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

This is simply not true, but go ahead with your self-limiting beliefs. You keep talking about 'infields' and 'coaches' like that has anything to do with reality. Who cares about them? Keep giving up after < 10 seconds.

Imagine thinking a [hot] girl with poor body language to start, and possibly rude can't be gotten. Ever heard of New York City? Or Miami?

It's always the newbies who have the need to immediately tell everyone here what can and what can't possibly ever work. But hey, you watched a lot of videos.

Well D .. in @famineofcrows defence , infield videos are being presented as filmed reality. lol.
By big name YT PUA coaches , supposedly good at pickup and charging lotsa money to teach others.

Anddd this is a *pickup& seduction* forum we are discussing it all on.

i beleive what you say from ur postings.. but also on the other side. There is no proof of what you are saying. How’s he supposed to beleive ?

I have the same problem w forums as he does watching infield. It’s all anonymous and proof-less.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Oh I wasn't talking about one specific PUA. But I mean whenever I see an infield, I can always tell whether the PUA will end up NOT getting anywhere with the girl based on her reaction to his opener basically. Similarly, I can usually tell very fast when he's likely to get somewhere with her

I remember noticing this when I used to watch RSD infields and products too. I was excited at first, but when i'd re-watch teh same infeilds again and again to take notes and learn, i'd notice things I didn't like. Like when Max pulled a girl in 'the natural' it was basically ALWAYS a girl who gave him a massive IOI. (sometimes even opening him) - Similar with Julien. And when they'd open girls who were cold, the interactions just ended up in their 'rejection compilation' that they had in their paid products (Julien once worked his ass off and the best he got from the cold girl was a kind of smile which he took as a win and the infield ended so clearly he go nowhere with her. And that was seemingly his best example of 'turning' a girl who wasn't receptive)

And It's teh same for me. I know really very fast nowadays whether i'm wasting my time with a girl. Certainly within 10 seconds. I've experiemented and tested lots using various attraaction material and game etc, but never helped, and in hindsight i'm not surprised as what happens to me is waht happens to the pros lol.

And when I open a girl who I end up banging, I always feel it's kind of obvious to me, even if it's fairly subtle (a slight difference in her eye contact usually), within 20 seconds or so.

But in terms of who i've watched, I watched a lot of RSD, coach kyle, Austen Summers, Todd V, EvolutionDaily, James Tusk. Many others, but they spring to mind.

Ok so there’s a few things here.
You’ve noticed a pattern in infield and your own experience in terms of an early positive response - it seems to be a Y/N early and if it’s a No nothing seems to work to turn it around. And rationising therefore if this is the case is there any point to using ‘Game’ tactics and techniques at all , ie it’s predetermined. Fair question.

First off tho - need more info,
where are you at right now and where do you wanna be. What’s the goals.

Is it mainly more quantity or options you want?
Or better quality? Wanna appeal more to hotter chicks from nightlife scenes ?

are pulls taking too long perhaps , wanna get some spicier and quicker experiences ?

Is it to make relationships last longer?

Maybe if you start there and we try make a case for learnings/tactics & techniques and explain some stuff .

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

Basically, it’s that that women are highly attracted to Masculine Dominance ie Dominant men.

I think that it's COMPLICATED and that it's a bad idea to make general statements like that. I think it depends on the woman and on the specific form of "Masculine Dominance" the man is doing.

I've seen a lot of guys hear stuff like "women like dominant men", "women are attracted to alpha males", etc...then try to implement their understanding of the concept and...FAIL HARD.

A lot of guys were HARMED by things told in the PUA community about being "dominant", "alpha male", high value man", etc. Instead of becoming atractive dominant men, they became unattractive douchebags - irritating and repulsive. Essentially "socially-damaged" people incapable of normal interacting.

I've seen HUGE number of PUA community guys RUIN THEIR INTERACTIONS, over and over again, by trying to "be alpha", "be dominant", "show higher value", etc. In reality, they were rude and mean to girls and they were presenting themselves as douchebags who are mean for no reason - they were presenting themselves as toxic, unpleasant people nobody wants around.

I've seen good looking PUAs sabotage many interactions in which the women were visibly attracted and success would be extremely likely - if they would talk to these girls in a nice manner, instead of being rude and mean.

I mean using things like Negs, unfriendly form of Cocky & Funny, but also something harder to spot - lack of being nice, lack of building warmth, rapport, connection when it should be done. And general vibe of being artificial, cold, emotionally closed, douchebag, etc.

THIS PROBLEM HAPPENED TO ME TOO.

When I first came to PUA community, I was clueless and I believed everything the community was saying. I believed in PUA nonsense and tried to implement it... I got poor results - but I attributed them to my own incompetence and insufficient amount of practice/experience. So I practiced and practiced... And actually the results became the worse the more closely I followed what PUA community was advocating. And the best actions I had happened when I was following my intuition.

I was brainwashed by the PUA community and I still believed what PUA community teaches works - despite bigger and bigger evidence to the contrary. But later I've met some people who helped me get out of the brainwashing and look at this objectively.

When I looked objectively, I've noticed that the PUA community vision of "being dominant", "being alpha male", "being high value", etc etc:

1. Does NOT work for me.
2. Does NOT work for anybody I know.

All the PUA people I knew, me included, were generally getting BAD RESULTS from it.

And I'm a good looking, naturally dominant guy. If PUA community methods of being a "dominant man", "alpha male", etc don't work work me, then for whom do they work?

I have GREAT results from my sexual vibe, from my "BDSM vibe", from being intense, predatory, kind of dark and aristocratic, etc etc... And sure it is some form of "Masculine Dominance". But it's something DIFFERENT than what many other people mean by "being dominant", "being alpha male", "being a high value men", etc etc.

And I'm against lumping DIFFERENT things under one big term.

What really works for me is sexual/dominant STATE PROJECTION (and looks of course). I'm not higly dominant or higly sexual verbally or physically (up to a certain point). I act nice, I'm well mannered.

Many PUAs are energetically ASEXUAL and they're trying to establish dominance by verbal techniques and physicall behaviors.

I'm against explaining what I do by "Masculine Dominance", because I think using such a term "pushes out" the exact image of what I'm doing (and what I'm not doing).

Everything you are describing falls under that category but perhaps you don’t really see it clearly.

I reject categorising it using a wide category. Because if you put it under a wide category, then you're really mixing different things together. And people can interpret wide categories like "being a dominant men" in different ways, including some very misguided and harmful interpretations.

My vibe is highly sexual in the "I want to cum into that ass" sense, combined with BDSM domination urges, kind of sophisticated or aristocratic... It's vastly different from the ASEXUAL, low-class, artficial, rude, "self-important douchebag" kind of thing a lot of PUA community people do - which in their opinion is "being dominant" and "being alpha male".

BTW Watch the old guy character in this video (I look a lot younger than him.) Make sure to also watch the last part, when old and young guy meet and drink together:

The guy looks high status and he also looks like a dominant, confident person, a little bit of a "tough guy", etc - but he's not being a dick to people. He's also not some kind of "oh let's party" character smiling all the time and waving his hands.

I'm kind of like a sexually charged, BDSM oriented version, yet also bit softer (?) version of that character. Kind of like the same guy would come to the club with a intention to fuck a girl hard, order her to "kneel before her owner", etc. While still keeping his behavior classy, well within social norms. And with a younger, softer and yet wider-jawed face.

So in saying you are a 7/10 in looks but pulling 10/10s is not really correct. you said looks matter which is true. And that you have a ‘high status’ face. Which means you are not a 7/10 in looks to them. You’re higher than that. Does that make sense?

I would say "better", not "higher" - as not to avoid implying it's the same as being higher on physicaly attractiveness scale. Since it's not the same effect.

BTW Other people of any given physical rating also have different kinds of traits expressed by their faces. Positive and negative.

you are high status guy, pulling high status girls.

Yes.

I'm not a hacker who hacked the system. I have high value within the system.

BTW Look at Mystery... 6'5 guy, kind of good looking... Often dressed like he could be a musician. So also high value within the system, NOT some kind of "hacker" who breaks the social-sexual "laws of physics".

Mystery often looks like a very tall, kind of good looking musician - like for example here: https://en-academic.com/pictures/enwiki/77/Mysteryerik.jpg

If I saw a guy dressed like that, I wouldn't think "illusionist". I would think the guy most likely plays in some kind of pop or rock band.

Look here: https://media.glamour.com/photos/56...fe-blogs-smitten-0129-rosemary-mystery_sm.jpg

And here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwLas2zXcAAFgEP.jpg

Especially on the last one, he looks like somebody RICH.

Does Mystery look average? NO. Taking everything in account, he's clearly in "high value" category just by the way he looks.

And PUA community was always brainwashing, conditioning people to not notice such things and instead attribute everything to verbal techniques (or inner game).

Coming back to me and the "high status guy, pulling high status girls"....

I have an EXTREMELY attractive girlfriend - the hottest woman I've seen in my entire life. People stare wide-eyed when they see her. She makes different kinds of high value men "feel weak" in her presence. Very hot women get their ego reduced when they see her.

She had some extremely good looking partners in the past - and I feel totally outclassed by them. I can't understand why she prefers me. In theory I know why - because she has told me - but I find it hard to understand. I would never take a physical 7/10 over a 9-10/10. But my girlfriend says I have an obsession about looks and that for her it's ridiculous and "blasphemous" to even compare her former 9-10/10 partners with me.

She says she FEELS there is something incredibly masculine, incredibly sexy inside me. Something attractive and sexy to the point of being overhelming and ENSLAVING her. She says it's literally taking away her free will - but she's LOVING EVERY BIT OF IT.

She says she feels I'm internally "like a predatory animal', "so super intense", also "like a snake with razor sharp fangs, dripping with poison". Etc etc. But also "sweet". And also "divine". She deeply dislikes the idea that I'm a ordinary humant being - she prefers to think of me as a God in human form.

BTW Such extreme vibes are largely unknown in the PUA community (because it's full of losers), but aren't uncommon in the BDSM community - where there are far more men with "extreme" personality and sexuality.

My girlfriend says sex with me is the ultimate, divine, metaphysical pleasure...and the main goal of her life. She literally says that she feels the point of her whole existence is to have sex with me.

She says she loves me and that's certainly true, but it's not "love" as is normally understood. It's rather a mix of sexual obsession and fanatical devotion. And normal love as a....consequence?

I love her, but less than she loves me. My love for her is big, but more "normal", not like obsessive, fanatical devotion.

She says she deeply appreciates the fact I love her and it makes her very happy, but...if I didn't, it wouldn't change her attitude towards me.

She says she that if she had to, she would gladly pay me for sex. And she would still be extremely happy and feel extremely honored.

She says she needs me way more than I need her and that I'm doing her a huge (divine!) favor by being with her.

She says it's because I could be happy with any decent girl, but she could be happy only with me.

So:

1. I get a extremely hot, extremely devoted girl. (+ other benefits)

2. She get's her "God" she's living for.

We both feel we got an exceptional deal, a partner of amazing quality.

A lot of girls are attracted to me, while in her case literally every man drools at her. There is asymmetry, but clearly we are both "high value" people.

I didn't lie to her, I didn't manipulate her, I didn't somehow bamboozle her into something she doesn't want. I presented a "product", she was interested and now she thinks she has "bought" the most amazing product ever.

She's an extreme case, but not really a isolated one - my other women also regard me as a "luxurious product".

My girfriend jokes that I would make an amazing male prostitute and that it's crazy I don't charge women money.

But if I'm so amazing, how come I ever had problems with women, how come I ever went to the PUA community?

I was severely fucked up emotionally. My father was toxic, abusive... Plus there were some other toxic influences, plus conservative upbringing...

In highschool, I was fat and asocial... and yet multiple girls, including the one considered the hottest in my entire highschool (7-8/10), were giving me strong IOIs... But I was too shy to make use of it. I could see women are attracted to me, but I've felt no emotional, social possibility of making use of it. (Which was of course completely wrong, but I was emotionally fucked up.)

Later, during early college years, I saw a girl I thought was stunning at a business party.... Now I think she was only 8/10, but then I thought she was amazing... I knew that if I don't do anything, I will never meet her again... She noticed and was interested too, sat away from her friends... And I have succesfully taken her number! Unfortunately, on the dates I've fucked it up due to being a totally inexperienced, low-self esteem guy.... Fell in love, suffered a lot, had suicidal thoughts...

But despite the failure...a 8/10 was initially interested in me and made an effort to make me approach her....that's one more sign of me being way above average.

Then I've entered PUA community... If I'm attractive, why didn't I get great successes?

Well... I still had my "curse" of being emotionally fucked up and unable to take advantage of opportunities.

Also, the PUA community methods were wrong and made things worse, not better.

I was later "cured" by growing experiences with women and by positive influence of some naturals I've met.

I guess the moral of this story is that even a person with high innate potential can be fucked up by negative influences.

BTW I find my story both strange and sad - every after all these years. I could have easily had a 7-8/10 girlfriend in my highschool and a 8/10 in early college and don't suffer all that pain - when I was a sensitive young person.

And how would those local guys have succeed with a Hot women with ANY style of approach? like, would it be a NO in every circumstance. Were they obviously Dorks/Nerds/Beta/ low value type guys?

There were different guys - many average guys, some obvious "Betas" and some good looking guys.

And I think they should have been told THE TRUTH - not fairy tales about how supposedly anyone ca get the hottest women using Negs.

If the girl notices you and simply doesn’t want to talk to you/doesn’t consider you attractive, then in my experience there is no neg or routine or story and that can make her interested in an one on one scenario. She will just be frustrated that you are not getting that she doesn’t see you like this.

Yes. Ok, maybe in some cases a routine/story might work if it somehow credibly hit some kind of value important for the girl, but that's a rather theoretical possibility.

Also: in my opinion a lot of methods used in the community can ruin attraction by making the guy look like a douchebag. And even if the girl liked the guy before, now she doesnt want him in her life - because there are other handsome guys who don't seem to be douchebags.

Which PUAs would you say are actually good?

As far as I know, despite all his faults, Mystery is kind of competent.

However that doesn't mean you should treat what he's saying seriously.

BTW From what I have seen, the best guys are naturals, not PUAs.

And BTW any thought about the direct/indirect debate?

I think indirect is safer in many cases, but the whole debate is kind of pointless.

Some of what he says re negs is also contradictory in a humorous way. Re his perverse inner dialogue of sexual domination vs his opinion of using Negs in speech.

This isn't contradictory.

I don't (usually) verbalise my perverse inner dialog. It works through STATE PROJECTION.

State projection get's process by the woman's intuition, while Negs get's process by her verbal/social intelligence... Two very different channels.

If I exaggerate a bit, it stuff like

“ I want to dominate her, completely devour her, tie her up, make her mine, fuck her in every hole and blow my cum all over her face. Then suck her blood! etc

I sometimes consume the blood of women. Did you read about it somewhere in my posts, or was it a accidental "hit"?

BTW The blood consumption I do is a iny bit of blood from the finger, not any kind of movie-like vampirism stuff and goblets full of blood. I also did larger blood-plays, but with animal blood. I have no idea why, but I like blood poured, smeared over me or the women.

And I also enjoy the sight of women eating raw meat. (Like here, but I like it more bloody and primal, less smilely:

)

and then when I’m finished ..take her to my basement , put her down in my well, get her to lotion her skin for a week , then chop her up and wear her skin as a suit ,

These are my secret perverse desires oh yesssss…

but there’s one thing I WOULDNT do , I tell you… I wouldn’t be NEGGING her.

….that would be rude.”

BTW I like to piss on woman's faces or inside their mouths (and they have to drink the urine). And I expect the women to treat it as a great honor.

I don't have an emotional problem with being rude to women... I simply think it's not a good idea in practical terms.

 

[famineofcrows]

This is simply not true, but go ahead with your self-limiting beliefs. You keep talking about 'infields' and 'coaches' like that has anything to do with reality. Who cares about them? Keep giving up after < 10 seconds.

Imagine thinking a [hot] girl with poor body language to start, and possibly rude can't be gotten. Ever heard of New York City? Or Miami?

It's always the newbies who have the need to immediately tell everyone here what can and what can't possibly ever work. But hey, you watched a lot of videos.

yes, yes, I know. 'the 'really' good guys aren't known and don't have infields'. And 'the REALLY fast guys aren't in the olypmics and aren't famous'

 

[famineofcrows]

First off tho - need more info,
where are you at right now and where do you wanna be. What’s the goals.

tbh, i'm happy with my dating life. I'm not looking for a relationship. Not really interested in that. I just like going out with my friends and pulling girls home. I've had a fair bit of success and been in the game quite a fews years

Close too a triple digit lay count now. Not quite. Will hit the big 100 this year!

But I of course get frustrated on many nights out when you get many rejections in a row or go home alone or your dream girl (looks wise) just isn't attracted despite running game and doing and saying all the things you've learned over many years lol. (and due to my experience, this is always obvious within maybe 3 seconds)

But as I say, I get the same results as the coaches and people I grew up learning from, so I can't really have any complaints.

I believe my 'game' is as good as anyone elses. That's for sure. I believe in identical bodies on the same girls in the same environment, nobody would get much better results than me. Put it that way

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I think that it's COMPLICATED and that it's a bad idea to make general statements like that. I think it depends on the woman and on the specific form of "Masculine Dominance" the man is doing.

dude what was a huge-mongous reply post.
General advice re forums ; You need to break it down when replying .into shorter points.

To me, it can all be tied back up to the meta- term “Masc Dominance /Dominant male” and I’ll tell you why.

yes I agree re the PUA advice and how it can go badly wrong as per your examples. As it’s an incomplete understanding and teaching of behaviours and the ‘why’ behind the behaviours.

that’s been termed ‘fake alpha syndrome by some coaches who were formerly PUAs or rolled with the Gurus and split off / outgrew the community. Noting a lot were just Fake Alphas /douchebags/ mental cases.

And chicks can tell also re that P guy. They’d label him a ‘try hard’.

so you are close to (or just plain equal to) a ‘Dom’ in the BDSM world . Of Doms & Subs.

congrats on the hot GF btw. Nice!

I’ll try outline some things re actual Alphaness/ Dominance. Like re guys that are considered Dominant Males or High Value males from a females pov.

LOOKS
1. Dominant Genetics
- *height* (this is a BIG one, pun intended)
- physical frame, muscles etc
- handsome or sexy faced or ‘high status faced as you and D say
- good hair, good skin,
There’s prob others can’t remember right now. The big one is height tho. Tall guy.

2. Fashion / grooming
- various things not gonna list them most of us know on here. He’ll be well dressed or uniquely dressed or peacocky with a flair possibly.

BEHAVIOUR
- is a * Leader Of His Pack* and acts accordingly , displays all the behaviours associated with this (very important one)
- VERY assertive
- big core confidence
- Dominates in interactions /has strong influence (in whatever fashion, there are many indicators of this)
- very socially intelligent
- *verbally witty/ verbally dominant

also ime Alpha guys typically have a lot of reserves of ENERGY vs non alpha guys.
Basically, at the meta level of a definition of it - A Dominant or Alpha guy controls his environment and the people in it to get what he wants, to get things lining up to his vision of how things ought to be. (More or less)

Sooo.. women know all of this. They have perfect radar for it. (See below for follow on re PUA probekms

But , there are varieties of Alpha and a spectrum of Alpha-ness too . There are short guys who are Alphas and actual leaders of their smaller group of men. Usually with all the attributes including the Face and then very strong in the behaviours. They tend to be Machiavellian-leaning also in how they dominate . But usually compensate with being physically buff.

And they also do very well with the females, as Dominant men are preferred by women. Period.

A High status guy = a dominant guy also by the definition. And again a preference.
———————-
the problem with the PUA teachings;

So as I said earlier women have a natural in built evo-biological detection system

It’s quite hard to ‘trick’ em. Takes a lot of work (and energy too actually).. but Yknow , add a noisy environment and alcohol or drugs into the mix and it is possible to ‘fake’ it to some extent and get some results.

The problem is PUAs Cherry pick *some* of these things , mainly fashion and behavioural stuff and teach it incompletely .so guys put on the ‘Fake Alpha’ act which most women see thru as Try Hard , they can some fundamentals are clearly missing. It doesn’t work. Then they pursue it into mental problems.

Example - RSD Tyler and many others.
Tyler being shorter , fat, ginger bearded and ugly and acting way too assertive. He just doesn’t have the Value to pull it off.

BUT… being more Dominant can be learned.
And ought to be when it comes to women.
As its their preference for getting with guys!

Simples! Haha.

except to really get it , a guy has to actually become more dominant ! Like for real. Not just in the bars, clubs, street or wherever which women. He has to actually work in becoming a leader of MEN and more dominant with other people including women firstly. Bit by bit.
Small chunk by small chunk.

that’s the real way to getting better with women. And there is multiple dimensions to it and lotsa skills to be learned.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

yes, yes, I know. 'the 'really' good guys aren't known and don't have infields'. And 'the REALLY fast guys aren't in the olypmics and aren't famous'

Well it’s a bit different, real naturals/chads/ seducers are too busy living their lives to post tutorials online, they don’t need to. Unless they want to make a business out of it.
there’s a few out there. Casey Zander may be one. Shaymaxx on IG another. Scotty GLL the badboy type guy has good infield and ideas.

 

[famineofcrows]

Well it’s a bit different, real naturals/chads/ seducers are too busy living their lives to post tutorials online, they don’t need to. Unless they want to make a business out of it.
there’s a few out there. Casey Zander may be one. Shaymaxx on IG another. Scotty GLL the badboy type guy has good infield and ideas.

yeah, i'm aware of scotty (there's no PUA i'm not aware of lol)
Scotty is good at closing the girls who already want him. Same as me, tbh. And every other top guy that i've ever seen. (but its also obvious when a girl isn't into him) Scotty is very direct. More than me.

ps - she only moved around him because he was speaking spanish and she didn't wanna be stuck with a guy speaking a different language or whatever. Not because she wasn't at all attracted to him

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I like Scotty. He uses flattery quite a bit to charm.. Never could understand advice that says “don’t compliment ‘ . Flattery is great I always try throw some in.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

yeah, i'm aware of scotty (there's no PUA i'm not aware of lol)
Scotty is good at closing the girls who already want him. Same as me, tbh. And every other top guy that i've ever seen. (but its also obvious when a girl isn't into him) Scotty is very direct. More than me.

But why do you assume they ‘already want him’? Eg that video example. She tries to move past him initially and keep walking.
He’s still using persuasion on her, He still jas to charm her and ‘gas hee up’ a bit first,

I think you are projecting dude,
Unless you can read the chicks eyes as she walks towards him and see her pupils dilating from the video footage. lol.

the chick has to acclimatise , like you said previously it takes x seconds for you to notice if the chick is into you. There is the potential to fuck it up in that time. That’s skill to begin with. If he acted different she may have just moved on past him….

And apply that idea in a bar , when a chicks gives an initial brush off or shit test, how do you know a ‘No thanks’ isn’t a shit test in disguise ? Some of the skill is tryna turn it around and warm her up .. so frame control stuff isn’t working for you? Do you have a Dominant / Alpha/ Boss vibe running or nah?

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I like that video. Scotty does a few cool and key things re being Alpha/Dominant and operating /controlling that frame.
For example - she moved to the right initially to walk on, and he steps out blocks her and holds her there to talk more.
Also he breaks the touch barrier early with the right hand and touches up her arm.
He’s got a great physical frame and he’s taller than her too. Which is ideal.
He’s rock solid tbh. Nice.

tbh she’s a sexy lil thing. I’d be a bit nervous for sure. Now imagine a taller , hotter chick and how solid and masculine a guy needs to be to give out that big strong Dominant Male signal.

my shorter Alpha mate had all that too. Same vibe w him and women.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

To me the early game is projecting a lot of that big signal. Plus the Rizz / charm / suave stuff with the face , smile and the verbals.
It’s like a combo of super warm, fun, friendly on the top side with masculine dominance energy running underneath. a strong grounded sexual energy and frame in the body language

it’s like “hey I’m interested “ being obvious on the top, and also underneath “I’m a boss, I’m steely and this is sexual” .

too often this is just described as ‘confidence’ which is too vague for me.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

yes, yes, I know. 'the 'really' good guys aren't known and don't have infields'. And 'the REALLY fast guys aren't in the olypmics and aren't famous'

There are really a lot of good guys who aren't known and don't have infields - especially naturals.

Comparison with sport is horribly flawed, because seduction is problematic for reputation, while sport isn't. Many guys don't want to be publically known as seducers because they don't want to be seen negatively by women, family members, coworkers...

And competition in the seduction coaching business isn't won by actual seduction skill level, but by marketing and skill at manipulating other men. Best example of this: Tyler.

so you are close to (or just plain equal to) a ‘Dom’ in the BDSM world . Of Doms & Subs.

Yes.

So as I said earlier women have a natural in built evo-biological detection system

It’s quite hard to ‘trick’ em. Takes a lot of work (and energy too actually).. but Yknow , add a noisy environment and alcohol or drugs into the mix and it is possible to ‘fake’ it to some extent and get some results.

Sure, women can be manipulated to some extent. But I don't think what the PUA community teaches is an effective way to do that.

except to really get it , a guy has to actually become more dominant ! Like for real. Not just in the bars, clubs, street or wherever which women. He has to actually work in becoming a leader of MEN and more dominant with other people including women firstly. Bit by bit.
Small chunk by small chunk.

I never became "leader of men", despite doing some heavy stuff with women.