Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

[CharmingPsychopath]

You can succeed doing both at the same time. Without being an asshole alpha male that turns them off.

Yes, of course.

You are 100% spot-on, this is what skills and I were discussing in the other thread.

@Skills wrote in this thread that Negs, teasing don't work too well on Gen Z.

But my bad experiences with the PUA community I've described are mostly from 2000s. So from an earlier time, when GenZ were underage or not born yet.

A lot of young women simply aren't able to handle old-school pua methods

From what I have seen, the old-school PUA methods never worked well - even in 2000s.

There were also numerous cases when people met their old-school PUA gurus in real life in 2000s or 2010s and were dissapointed. Because their real life seduction skills didn't match the internet hype.

I've met a few people mentioned in the "Game".... and I was dissapointed with each one of them.

My impression is that PUA community was always largely a scam, a toxic community.

BTW I know many good seducers - especially naturals, but also some good PUAs. Game exists - it's just a lot of PUAs, including some big old-school names, seem to not have it.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

You can succeed doing both at the same time. Without being an asshole alpha male that turns them off. Not that you need my advice.

I dress and act and speak like a high-status, dominant man who's interested in bdsm sex with them on the 1st or 2nd date, but that is combined with being a gentleman in public. Somebody 'safe' as you correctly point out. "I contain multitudes," ~W.W.

Hence the 'Gentleman Rake' archetype. Someone who dresses with classic elegance and can be kind while also teasing.

Very good D precisely.

You are 100% spot-on, this is what skills and I were discussing in the other thread.

I've pulled way, way back on the teasing and the C/F unless I know they can handle it. A lot of young women simply aren't able to handle old-school pua methods until they get to know you well, the pandemic ruined their prime socialization years.

Or they're so used to everyone telling them how wonderful they are, that a simple witty, sarcastic bit of banter sends them into a state of shock or cognitive dissonance and ruins the seduction.

Also another very good point re younger women/ younger gens I’ve been mulling over. And the effect of pandemic and socialisation/social skills. That was a pretty big effect.

also D as a follow on. Do you ever find w younger women a problem with the new lingo? Ie Gen Z / millennials new ‘slang ‘ talk.

For example -the last younger girl I had a big age gap with of me 35 and her 21 .. she’d tease me re my old man Lingo

wasn’t an issue then but that was 10 years ago. To be with a 20s chick now and all that new slang… ‘vibes’, ‘dead-ass’, ‘dropping Ws & Ls’ , facts no printer’ etc etc

does that ever become and issue or sticking point from a chicks pov to mess up a seduction for you? I’d imagine there would be teasing from her. James

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Yes, of course.



@Skills wrote in this thread that Negs, teasing don't work too well on Gen Z.

But my bad experiences with the PUA community I've described are mostly from 2000s. So from an earlier time, when GenZ were underage or not born yet.

There were also numerous cases when people met their old-school PUA gurus in real life in 2000s or 2010s and were dissapointed. Because their real life seduction skills didn't match the internet hype.

I've met a few people mentioned in the "Game".... and I was dissapointed with each one of them.

My impression is that PUA community was always largely a scam, a toxic community.

BTW I know many good seducers - especially naturals, but also some good PUAs. Game exists - it's just a lot of PUAs, including some big old-school names, seem to not have it.

I thought it could be a generational issue then like D said.
But you say early 2000s so….
Re the bolded blanket statements re PUA I have to say something important.

PuA/ Pickup/ seduction community has a lot of schools /authors/gurus in it even the old school. Mystery Method was just one school .. that was copied by hundreds and turned into a widespread $ scam.
Companies like RSD for example are terrible , frauds and can be completed discounted and deleted out of PUA history.

re old school there was also David D (some ok teachings but lotsa filler and a v boring dude/marketer) ..nah. I discount him also for those reasons.

but also other guys David D based his stuff on. OGs like Brent Smith (awesome) and Rick H ( great stuff but not much available he’s an enigma guy that disappeared or moved on to big business corporate life )

there was pre MM era of Ross Jeffries - I rate his stuff especially for voice tonalities , and his SS & patterning teaching. (It can work very well )

but also HEAPS of other books and courses pre MM and post MM. that are not as well known but great worldviews on seduction for learning . Almost too many to mention.

stuff like - Robert Glovers Nice Guy Syndrome
FJ Shark - How to be the Jerk women love .
Tons of books and audio courses CP.
like, heaps. They just have to be tracked down.

REAL old school stuff some of the community ideas were founded on, before it went ‘mainstream’ and then scammy widespread $4000 Bootcamp fraud and $50,000 live in Pickup Mansions.

Re specifically Negs - I just did a voice memo in defence of negs with examples of how they work, what types of girls they work on and theorising on their potential to get very hot women. I could upload it to Vocaroo to hear. Or pm to you. As to type it all out would be a mega-post and I can’t be fooked to be honest. Easier to talk it and also I touch on things that are lost in the written word. And why that’s potentially the big issue with learning and Negs specifically.
Let me know re the Vocaroo/ voice memo.

James

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Actually I could post it on the thread for everyone interested. I think i touch on some key and great stuff .. just need to find a host platform that forbids downloading and has an auto-delete function to destroy the recording after 1 week or somesuch.

Can anyone recommend one?

 

[famineofcrows]

Companies like RSD for example are terrible , frauds and can be completed discounted and deleted out of PUA history.

it's always interesting how everyone in the community has such drastically different opinions of various PUA's. Almost as different at the conflicting advice that different 'expert coaches' give!

I was actually just on the reddit seduction sub (which inspired this post due to the serendipitous timing) reading a post from one of their 'respected elders' who was saying that anything that isn't RSD Tyler can be discounted and about how he's the best there's ever been etc.

I've personally never had a super strong opinion either way about any coach - mostly due to what I mentioned before. About how of the thousands of infields i've watched, i've never seen anything from any coach that massively surprised or impressed me. They approach girls. If she's cold it's a rejeciton. If she's warm/hot - it will often go somewhere. Basically the same for me (maybe i should be a coach. I've actually thought about it before! $$$ lol)

I've got a list of guys who I 'personally' quite like but I imagine it'll be very different people again from who others like!

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

It’s funny to look at where all these old school PUA guys are today actually.. and in a gossipy fashion I’ll go with the high to low;

Brent Smith - moved into the high end life and dating coaching w rich clients. currently looks to be a high roller/ high status guy with lifestyle to match observing his IG. All Tuxedos and fancy parties . He looks like an old distinguished Gentleman now a real high status Silver Fox

Zan Perrion - lives in Eastern Europe I think, Romania or Budapest maybe. Lives a travelling romancer life funded by his smaller PUA business, ‘Ars Amorta. ‘ or somesuch. He does all the 21 conventions and waxes philosophically / touchy feely a lot, too much for me tbh.
Not a great teacher and even admits he is not a great coach (lol). I find the fact he’s moved to Romania auspicious also tbh. Don’t rate him for learning much. But have no doubts he picks up hot chicks as there’s plenty of evidence

David D - multi millionaire , marketing guru, but married an extremely busted looking woman (lol) even turned his relationship into courses to sell. He’s all about that $$$$$ really.

Mystery - did a VH1 reality show and must have made money and squandered it, he’s known to be a bad businessman and with money, still doing bootcamps in Europe with some English guy Beckster in his 50s(!) doing the same game he ran in his 20s. Ouch. Has kids with 2 women I think. Probably makes just enough cash to cover his travel lifestyle. Sad story.

Neil Strauss - multi millionaire probably. Got married to a Mexican model chick, had a kid. Got divorced. Very successful author and talking head on men’s improvement podcasts. Friends with music industry guys like Rick Rubin. Rolls in high status circles . Etc

Tyler - multi millionaire.
Has kids. Ex wife was some Mexican stripper (?) I believe from reports. Maybe has more kids to another ex wife or GF. Not sure. Still running his retard game with women from his infields. Still misleads all his students.

other various characters along the way such as Jon Sinn, I read frequented Asia / Thailand to get easy pussy. Which was definitely a thing with some PuA guys. He linked up with another big name Bobby Rio at one point.

Bobby Rio - runs a big business now and website / magazine. Was linked with another guy Rob Judge at one point. That’s all I can say

Brad P - ran a big pickup scam at one point with a Pickup Mansion charging rediculous money for ‘immersion’ programs for guys to pay to live there. $50K- $100K I read. And he never turned up there to coach or meet the guys . LOL or made one short appearance and fucked off apparently, what a charlatan. He later moved into a substance abuse Rehab Scam set up his own rehab, ripped clients off millions. Got busted and is facing jail or in jail now.

All this was read on various corners of the internet by folks in the know, and is still googleable or in older web archived PUA related goss websites .

Pretty interesting looking back at it all though

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

it's always interesting how everyone in the community has such drastically different opinions of various PUA's. Almost as different at the conflicting advice that different 'expert coaches' give!

I was actually just on reddit (which inspire this post due to the serendipitous timing) reading a post from one of their 'respected elders' who was saying that anything that isn't RSD Tyler can be discounted and about how he's the best there's ever been etc.

I've personally never had a super strong opinion either way - mostly due to what I mentioned before. About how of the thousands of infields i've watched, i've never seen anything from any coach that massively surprised or impressed me. They approach girls. If she's cold it's a rejeciton. If she's warm/hot - it will often go somewhere. Basically the same for me (maybe i should be a coach. I've actually thought about it before! $$$ lol)

I've got a list of guys who I 'personally' quite like but I imagine it'll be very different people again from who others like!

See my summary of some of the PUA figures and where they are at today in previous post above x

also who are the guys you like again? Can’t remember …

 

[famineofcrows]

See my summary of some of the PUA figures and where they are at today in previous post above x

also who are the guys you like again? Can’t remember …

Don't think I mentioned them but i'm sure nobody else would agree which is fine. As I say, from what I see it's extremely personal and there's no consensus. Seemingly every PUA has lots of people who consider him a pickup GOD, and lots of people who consider him beyond useless.

There's a small handful, but one off the top of my head is Aaron from Evolution Daily who I quite like. I used to belong to his private facebook group briefly and am pretty sure he's legit based on what he shared there! I think he's got a certain talent for conversation which I don't always see in infeilds where it's more like they're going through 'moves' (cold read, cold read, assumption.... in a kind of robotic way where it doesn't quite 'flow').

I think essentially he's a 'natural'. He doesn't really use 'techniques' like cold reads and pushpull and disqualification and everything that we are told to use in order to actually 'run game'. He just has a natural gift for conversation and it never being 'awkward' (due to always having something to say to continue the convo and/or make her laugh. In fact, lots of comments on his old vids used to say things like 'This guy has zero awkwardness about him.', 'how does he keep the convo going so effortlessly??!') etc.

I did watch his paid program once though and unsurprisingly, he wasn't really able to 'teach' what he does. I kind of knew that would be the case. I really think you'd need his brain inside your head. It's literally his personality. Some things can't be taught. I gather before being a coach he was a standup comic and a very social confident guy (just not with girls) with social skills, as you'd maybe expect from someone persuing that line of work.

The reason he didn't get laid back then is seemingly because he was very overweight and had acne. He lost a tonne of weight and stuff (TRT and surgery too), and THEN, now he had attraction from girls, he realised his social skills and humour etc actually counted for something. I also like his philosophy. He doesn't try to lie to people. He even strongly encourages getting better looking and gym and fashion and all that stuff. He says that super advanced level game isn't gonna help if the girl isn't remotely attracted to you when you say 'hi' basically. And that's also been my experience as I said before. He also gets props for being one of a very few to do streaming cold approach to give you a REAL idea of ones success rate (not just cherry picking their 1 successful infield from 55 that day and pretending it was his game as if that's how every approach goes)

His 'game' is approach. Confident body language etc. Easy flowing convo. No actual 'technique'. Just whatever comes to his mind. Then he'll basically tell her she's gorgeous. From there she either reacts well or bad. If it's bad, it will generally be the end of the interaction. If she enjoys the compliment, he'll just carry on between convo and verbal/physical escalation all teh way to sex.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Don't think I mentioned them but i'm sure nobody else would agree which is fine. As I say, from what I see it's extremely personal and there's no consensus. Seemingly every PUA has lots of people who consider him a pickup GOD, and lots of people who consider him beyond useless.

There's a small handful, but one off the top of my head is Aaron from Evolution Daily who I quite like. I used to belong to his private facebook group briefly and am pretty sure he's legit based on what he shared there! I think he's got a certain talent for conversation which I don't always see in infeilds where it's more like they're going through 'moves' (cold read, cold read, assumption.... in a kind of robotic way where it doesn't quite 'flow').

I think essentially he's a 'natural'. He doesn't really use 'techniques' like cold reads and pushpull and disqualification and everything that we are told to use in order to actually 'run game'. He just has a natural gift for conversation and it never being 'awkward' (due to always having something to say to continue the convo and/or make her laugh. In fact, lots of comments on his old vids used to say things like 'This guy has zero awkwardness about him.', 'how does he keep the convo going so effortlessly??!') etc.

I did watch his paid program once though and unsurprisingly, he wasn't really able to 'teach' what he does. I kind of knew that would be the case. I really think you'd need his brain inside your head. It's literally his personality. Some things can't be taught. I gather before being a coach he was a standup comic and a very social confident guy (just not with girls) with social skills, as you'd maybe expect from someone persuing that line of work.

The reason he didn't get laid back then is seemingly because he was very overweight and had acne. He lost a tonne of weight and stuff (TRT and surgery too), and THEN, now he had attraction from girls, he realised his social skills and humour etc actually counted for something. I also like his philosophy. He doesn't try to lie to people. He even strongly encourages getting better looking and gym and fashion and all that stuff. He says that super advanced level game isn't gonna help if the girl isn't remotely attracted to you when you say 'hi' basically. And that's also been my experience as I said before. He also gets props for being one of a very few to do streaming cold approach to give you a REAL idea of ones success rate (not just cherry picking their 1 successful infield from 55 that day and pretending it was his game as if that's how every approach goes)

His 'game' is approach. Confident body language etc. Easy flowing convo. No actual 'technique'. Just whatever comes to his mind. Then he'll basically tell her she's gorgeous. From there she either reacts well or bad. If it's bad, it will generally be the end of the interaction. If she enjoys the compliment, he'll just carry on between convo and verbal/physical escalation all teh way to sex.

Awesome thanks . He sounds legit and a cool guy /natural. Who are some of the best to study. I’ll definitely check him out.

re learning from these guys and their conversational abilities etc . some are not great teachers this is defs true.

I find by watching and analysing their interactions tho , extracting some patterns can be done. I’m very into conversational Frames at the moment, I think that could be a useful mental map to extract these patterns and dynamics. Which can then be distilled into principles and repeatable stuff re conversations / interactions,

Conversation styles especially are very learnable. It’s just words, tonalities ,cadences. Whether a guy can get attraction and reaults of the teacher is a different thing tho. But better results than current ought to be the goal re learning imo

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@famineofcrows

just checked out Aaron’s ‘Who Am I’ video on DE website. Re hi story and photos w chicks etc,

oh yeah, he’s defs a good ‘mens transformation example. And his story and pics likely legit from what I see there.

Funny when I opened the page he has a big face pic at top section and I was like,” he looks like Julien Blanc!” Similar face tbh,

some obvious stuff working his favor ;

1. he is Tall. Quite tall by the looks. 6”2 maybe (?) IDK
2, well built big frame to go with the height,

some giveaways to me re him being good with women
1. Big voice.
2. strong attitude (including the dissing of lame cornball coaches lol)
3. Face looks - pretty good
4. body language in video and photos.
5, his walk and swagger .
I think in the video there is footage of him walking w a chick from behind. There’s a confident swagger some player guys have that I see usually. Eg w black guys it’s quite noticeable and exaggerated.

So all of the above to me translates as ‘Dominant Male’ and thereby = attractive to women, pulls women.

the only caveat is can he Teach that or can that core Dominant stuff be ‘learned’?
like you said earlier , you had mixed results or poor learning from his stuff.

 

[famineofcrows]

@famineofcrows

just checked out Aaron’s ‘Who Am I’ video on DE website. Re hi story and photos w chicks etc,

oh yeah, he’s defs a good ‘mens transformation example. And his story and pics likely legit from what I see there.

Funny when I opened the page he has a big face pic at top section and I was like,” he looks like Julien Blanc!” Similar face tbh,

some obvious stuff working his favor ;

1. he is Tall. Quite tall by the looks. 6”2 maybe (?) IDK
2, well built big frame to go with the height,

some giveaways to me re him being good with women
1. Big voice.
2. strong attitude (including the dissing of lame cornball coaches lol)
3. Face looks - pretty good
4. body language in video and photos.
5, his walk and swagger .
I think in the video there is footage of him walking w a chick from behind. There’s a confident swagger some player guys have that I see usually. Eg w black guys it’s quite noticeable and exaggerated.

So all of the above to me translates as ‘Dominant Male’ and thereby = attractive to women, pulls women.

the only caveat is can he Teach that or can that core Dominant stuff be ‘learned’?
like you said earlier , you had mixed results or poor learning from his stuff.

What is DE website?
Yeah, i'm pretty sure he'd be the first to admit his results would be a million times worse if he was 5ft tall, high pitched voice etc. He's not one of these 'just use my secret NLP lines and techniques, bro. Girls aren't visual' lunatics.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

What is DE website?
Yeah, i'm pretty sure he'd be the first to admit his results would be a million times worse if he was 5ft tall, high pitched voice etc. He's not one of these 'just use my secret NLP lines and techniques, bro. Girls aren't visual' lunatics.

Typo, I meant ED = Evolution Daily. His introduction video at the top of the page.
(kinda funny the intials of his biz also being the initials for ..Erectile Dysfunction lolz.)

also chucked a bit at his testimonials page and the types of guys on there, the students.

My 101 advice to those guys would be
“step 1 - hit the gym dudes! Also , quit your office job in front of a screen all day writing code n shit! “ lol, they need some fundamentals fixing first clearly by the looks of em

Btw see my previous post #249 about analysis conversation stuff and learning what he may be doing.

ill be checking his infield soon for tips

interestingly, I was gonna mention way early here a PuA audio course that was really helpful to me, titled;
“ How To Be An Alpha Male, by *John Alexander*.”

Was a book and an audio course to go with it, awesome course imo.

John Alexander …Aaron Alexander hmm.,,could be the same guy perhaps.

Same kinda voice on the course tbh. Quite likely.

 

[famineofcrows]

Typo, I meant ED = Evolution Daily

Ahhh, K.

John Alexander …Aaron Alexander hmm.,,could be the same guy perhaps.

Same kinda voice on the course tbh. Quite likely.

No, very different voice. Not the same person

 

[famineofcrows]

Btw see my previous post #249 about analysis conversation stuff and learning what he may be doing.

yeah, i'm just not sure about that, personally.

What makes Aaron good socially isn’t that he’s using techniques or rehearsed lines etc. It’s that his brain naturally generates interesting, funny, engaging thoughts in real time. The conversation flows because of how he thinks, not because of what he’s memorised or a technique. One could spend a month studying him and still not be able to reproduce it, i.e like putting you both in a controlled test where you have to say the same things and reply in the same way too a third person. You just wouldn’t, because it’s not coming from the same mental process., because you’re trying to copy the outputs instead of having the same mental process that creates them.

It’s maybe a bit like trying to learn to be a top comedian. You can study timing, structure, and techniques, but some people are just naturally funny and super 'quick' because of how their mind works. With Aaron, it feels similar — you’d almost need a personality or brain transplant to produce the same kind of conversation, because it’s coming from his way of thinking - the way his synapses fire and associations form in real time, not from anything he’s consciously applying.
That's why I said it feels like you'd need his brain in your head lol.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

yeah, i'm just not sure about that, personally.

What makes Aaron good socially isn’t that he’s using techniques or rehearsed lines etc. It’s that his brain naturally generates interesting, funny, engaging thoughts in real time. The conversation flows because of how he thinks, not because of what he’s memorised or a technique. One could spend a month studying him and still not be able to reproduce it, i.e like putting you both in a controlled test where you have to say the same things and reply in the same way too a third person. You just wouldn’t, because it’s not coming from the same mental process., because you’re trying to copy the outputs instead of having the same mental process that creates them.

It’s maybe a bit like trying to learn to be a top comedian. You can study timing, structure, and techniques, but some people are just naturally funny and super 'quick' because of how their mind works. With Aaron, it feels similar — you’d almost need a personality or brain transplant to produce the same kind of conversation, because it’s coming from his way of thinking - the way his synapses fire and associations form in real time, not from anything he’s consciously applying.
That's why I said it feels like you'd need his brain in your head lol.

He’s just improvising.
Mining his brain for stuff yes
And probably using the structure of Improv ,
As taught in Improv classes ( eg Improv Comedy)

“yes And..” that can totally be learned.
My favorite comedians do that and use patterns to do it, so it’s totally learnable just takes work.

this guy Aaron probably took Improv classes at some point, or just has it naturally - “Freedom of speech “

totally learnable dude.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

In follow on this re it being learnable.

I do this and aim for this a lot , to improvise get in the flow . Talking attractive bullshit. Banter etc ,And when it’s going good .. I often sprinkle in various bit of canned pickup stuff as it comes into my head, as material also. The general tone is a piss take. I always had a ‘fake’ tone using mystery method canned stuff, to let the chick know I also knew it was BS. That’s the thing. So I can use cold reads, negs, whatever material. And deliver it in Jest and taking the piss. Not serious and not genuine.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@famineofcrows

I tried to watch some of this Aaron guys inflield videos- yeah nah bro. Not sure about this guy now tbh. there’s a few red flags. Eg his daygame compilation video,
1. How does he get away with showing the girls faces? Pretty sure this is illegal. Invasion of privacy,
2. The camera angle and quality - perfect side on shots and HD qualify steadycam? No f*cking way.
3. The girls never look left right or back towards the camera. Haha . Giveaway.

nah, unfortunately that’s fraud. Most infield is tbh. As it’s very risky videotaping chicks w/o consent and putting it on the internet. Bin that guy bro he’s BS.

I see on his YT he does a take down of John Anthony/ JMULV also. lol. A fraud calling out another fraud. I was off base re his attitude. Scammer.

I came across another video of better stuff ,
From Keys to the VIP.
I think the YTer is on this forum perhaps @Skills ?

Always liked that Cajun from LoveSystems.
He’s an actor , and has good ‘PUA based’ game showing off here. And 2nd guy Rob is excellent and my fave study from that TV show. He’s got that big Tony Montana Dominant persona going on. Killer Natural Guy.

​

​

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

I like this video. Very high status guy for sure. Looks to be a big business owner or the club owner or some such. Who is the actor btw is he famous in Poland or something? An ad for Johnny Walker whiskey I’m presuming

Yes, the actor is famous in Poland, it's Bogusław Linda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogusław_Linda). And it's a whiskey commercial. But I really care just about the character of the older guy - I think it's a really good image of a high class, elegant, confident male.

You have to remember this was back in the day, 2005/07 .. before everyone and their dog ripped off his ideas , titled themselves a MasterPUA and started a copycat business ,cleaning up $$$.

I remember that very well.

BTW This is still continues. People just ripoff material, without having practical understanding based on experience.

really want pictures of these polish chicks polish females are HAWT. Lots of polish came into UK decades ago .. scorching hot women to our eyes back then.

btw some guys used to tell me Talinn Estonia has the hottest women in the world , what’s your opinion on that?

Hard to say... Hottest women I've seen were Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Belarusian, Czech, Slovak, Serbian... Clearly a strong Slavic team. There are many Russians in Estonia, so I'm sure they have hot women there, but I don't recall a specific hot ethnically Estonian girl.

I did notice that some British and American men seemed to be impressed with women I was not impressed with. Like I think a woman is 7, or even just a 6 and they react like she was 8 or something. BTW You've rated Mystery's Katya as "maybe 8" if I recall correctly, while I rate her 6-7. It's the same "distance"!

I don't want to show women I've slept with or even ones I just know on non-sexual basis... But I will show you a woman I don't really know, but I got IOI from...

We were walking in opposite directions - I was alone, she was with her boyfriend. She looked SUPER HOT - in my opinion much better than on the photos.

I was looking at her beauty, she looked at me, our gazes met and her look was...strongly interested. A "WOW, what a guy!" kind of look. And I've seen in her eyes that regreted that she was walking with her boyfriend, not me.

Her boyfriend is much taller than me (around 6'4 vs 5'11), good looking, but clearly less "sharp", less predatory/animalistic, less sexual than me? Essentially a "generic" handsome guy?

BTW I got IOIs from many other very attractive women, models, celebrities, etc. And neither me, neither any of my male friends think I'm very attractive.

One friend said about the way I look something like: "you have something demonic in the way you look...you look bit like a demon".

Another friend, who also never knew the previously mentioned friend (different social circle), said: "you look like an orc".

Thanks guys, demon...orc...this is very "nice"...

Another friend, a natural, very good with women, said I look like a "psycho". He also said that he suspects that I attract women attracted to psychos.

My experience in relationships is that women are very submissive towards me, without me having to do much - maybe I attract submissive women, who seek out men who look like tyrants, because they want to be dominated and even opressed?

Anyway, I will show you the girl and her boyfriend.

1. Just to be clear - I did NOT get laid with her. I don't even know her personally.
2. I know her and his Instagram because they're both local celebrities and I've recognized her. (she's a model, he's an actor).

She: https://www.instagram.com/edyta_zajac/

He: https://www.instagram.com/_michal_mikolajczak/

Does anyone else get the impression she's bit more perverse than him, while he's more "innocent" than her?

My girlfriend said that in her eyes the guy is not sexy at all and she understands the woman's reaction perfectly - according to my girlfriend, I'm incomparably sexier, completely different league. My girlfriend said "why is she with that loser?". She said she feels sorry for the other girl and it's really sad. She said she would prefer to never see the guy either on Instagram or in real life - the sight of him irritates her. It makes her agressive, sadistic side "ignited".

So I don't get why the girl was so attracted to me from the first sight, but my girlfriend says she understands it very well, in fact according to her it's something painfully obvious.

I should probably add that:

1. My girlfriend is a sociopath/psychopath to a much larger degree than me. I'm the softer, gentler person in the relationship (surprised? ).

2. She has a long and rich history of abusing her partners - history she is VERY PROUD OF and she made sure to boast to me about every detail. She did emotional, physical and...sexual abuse. Like she liked beating her men with her fists, hard, drawing blood (she's 5'11 and not harmless). And sexual abuse...well, let's say she did some really disguisting things.

She also proposed that we meet with her exes and abuse them together. She says gay stuff wouldn't be really gay if I was the active side and the other man "my bitch". She thinks it would actually be very manly from my side. I've declined, as I find it disgusting...but also strangely flattering. I mean the vibe of a woman saying "I want my ex to be your bitch". (BTW Her idea was that the ex would NOT have a right to fuck or even touch her.)

3. She feels strong agression and sadistic impulses towards let's say "innocent" men. The other girl's boyfriend is awakening this side of her. Just looking at his photos on Instagram makes her feel agression.

4. Despite her "not so nice" nature, my girlfriend treats me in a extremely nice, gentle, sweet, understanding and supportive manner. I find her behavior literally perfect and I don't even know what she might improve. I never got a momenty of bad behavior from her - even for one second.

5. She enjoys me treating her in physically rough manner. She likes me slapping in the face, but also has fantasies about me beating her up hard, with a lot of blood. I decline, because I don't want to damage her beatiful face.

BTW Such "crazy" vibes and relationships are rarely encountered in PUA circles, but are much more frequent in the BDSM circles.

So that's my life... IOIs from high level women, a super hot psychopatic girlfriend who also behaves perfectly... BTW I find my girlfriend hotter than the other girl.

And yet I didn't lose my virginity untill 20+ and also I've struggled in my PUA years. I became good when I've started to hang out with naturals.

Very interesting this backstory..
You’re very much an unusual ‘Outlier’ type of guy imo.
Reminds me of another quick seducer / physical seducer guy ‘Aaron Sleazy’.. similarish story..

I also think that's an interesting story - but also a strange, confusing one. Events in my life have often proven my beliefs were wrong.

I'm certainly an outlier in the context of mainstream society, and also in the context of PUA community... But there are some similar people in the BDSM community. I've also noticed that I often get good understanding with people who are into BDSM, or are highly sexual, or sociopathic/psychopathic, visibly dominant or submissive in terms of personality (not necessarily into BDSM as practice)... I often perceive PUAs to be superficial, operating on the level of "empty" social games and...strangely asexual.

As for Aaron Sleazy, it's interesting that we both are highly critical of the PUA community. He even wrote a book criticising the community ("Debunking the Seduction Community").

I did go to a sex club last year tho for the first time.
Blew my mind the stuff I saw going on there in front of my eyes. I could hardly beleive it was happening. I was in shock for quite a while afterwards. Still seems like Dream.

There is a "sexual underground" where there is...a lot of sex. Like swinger communities and parts of BDSM community.

This is also funny in the context of how lame PUA community looks in comparison.

On a weekend night, PUAs go to clubs, do approaches, try techniques, often get rejected, treated without respect etc etc... Meanwhile on the same weekend night there are swinger and BDMS guys who cum into more than one woman...with 0% chance of failure. They come for guaranteed sex and are treated like kings all the time.

My girlfriend is bisexual and likes group sex (and BDSM as well)... I don't accept other men, so we do group sex only with her female friends... These are all highly hedonistic, bisexual girls. All are great looking - my girlfriend selects and recruits only really hot ones. She sleeps with them first 1-on-1 and teaches them obedience - I meet them when they they're ready to properly serve me.

Rules are more or less:

1. All the women, including my girlfriend, do what I want.
2. The "lesser bitches" also do what my girlfriend wants.
3. My/her property have no right to say "no" to anything.
4. Being my/our property is a great honor, so the bitches have a duty to show deep happiness, enthusiasm and gratitude.

My girlfriend can for example grab her friend by the hair, point to my cock and say "this is your GOD!". And then orders the friend to call my cock her God. My Gf likes doing thing like slapping them in the face, telling them they're "bitches good only for fucking", is tellling how "you don't deserve this dick, it's a mercy given to you, you worthless whore". Etc etc.

The women come to us for the great sex (both me and my girlfriend are great at this and other women are also good) and for extreme humiliation, extreme experience and yet "luxurious". The great looks of my girlfriend and others make it seem like some elite forbidden fruit for the chosen few. In comparison the rest of the world looks...boring.

My girlfriend also likes to sometimes add some Pagan ritual elements, blood drinking, my semen as "holy sacrament", fucking during at night in private forest/garden, etc etc...

If somebody is interested in such things, I recommend taking interest in BDSM communities. I'm not saying getting such things will be easy, but there are some really interesting women in the BDSM circles.

If somebody is more interested in normal sex, I recommend taking interest in swinger communities, sex clubs.

Re specifically Negs - I just did a voice memo in defence of negs with examples of how they work, what types of girls they work on and theorising on their potential to get very hot women. I could upload it to Vocaroo to hear. Or pm to you. As to type it all out would be a mega-post and I can’t be fooked to be honest. Easier to talk it and also I touch on things that are lost in the written word. And why that’s potentially the big issue with learning and Negs specifically.
Let me know re the Vocaroo/ voice memo.

Yes, PM it, I will gladly listen.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Yes, the actor is famous in Poland, it's Bogusław Linda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogusław_Linda). And it's a whiskey commercial. But I really care just about the character of the older guy - I think it's a really good image of a high class, elegant, confident male.

Totally, good role model that guy.
I’ve been talking to D a bit , quizzing him on high status dress and suits.
it’s funny, it’s like I know I already know this, and the effect of dressing well, but somehow have forgotten, then I realised today that just like my friend who won’t take my good advice re women… I am Lazy,
I don’t even iron my shirt sometimes lol,

I mean women go to great lengths to get ready and look glam for socialising, nights out etc. like, for HOURS. Shaving legs, hair, makeup, outfits handbag rah rah.

And I can’t be bothered to iron a shirt,, IF I can be bothered to wear one. LOL
Really gonna focus on cultivating a high status fashion style from here on

I remember that very well.

BTW This is still continues. People just ripoff material, without having practical understanding based on experience.

Truth. Many literally copied and pasted various usual techniques stuff into their books.. and their books had typos and didn’t make grammar sense and shit. Rediculous

Hard to say... Hottest women I've seen were Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Belarusian, Czech, Slovak, Serbian... Clearly a strong Slavic team. There are many Russians in Estonia, so I'm sure they have hot women there, but I don't recall a specific hot ethnically Estonian girl.

I did notice that some British and American men seemed to be impressed with women I was not impressed with. Like I think a woman is 7, or even just a 6 and they react like she was 8 or something. BTW You've rated Mystery's Katya as "maybe 8" if I recall correctly, while I rate her 6-7. It's the same "distance"!

I don't want to show women I've slept with or even ones I just know on non-sexual basis... But I will show you a woman I don't really know, but I got IOI from...

We were walking in opposite directions - I was alone, she was with her boyfriend. She looked SUPER HOT - in my opinion much better than on the photos.

I was looking at her beauty, she looked at me, our gazes met and her look was...strongly interested. A "WOW, what a guy!" kind of look. And I've seen in her eyes that regreted that she was walking with her boyfriend, not me.

Her boyfriend is much taller than me (around 6'4 vs 5'11), good looking, but clearly less "sharp", less predatory/animalistic, less sexual than me? Essentially a "generic" handsome guy?

BTW I got IOIs from many other very attractive women, models, celebrities, etc. And neither me, neither any of my male friends think I'm very attractive.

One friend said about the way I look something like: "you have something demonic in the way you look...you look bit like a demon".

Another friend, who also never knew the previously mentioned friend (different social circle), said: "you look like an orc".

Thanks guys, demon...orc...this is very "nice"...

Another friend, a natural, very good with women, said I look like a "psycho". He also said that he suspects that I attract women attracted to psychos.

My experience in relationships is that women are very submissive towards me, without me having to do much - maybe I attract submissive women, who seek out men who look like tyrants, because they want to be dominated and even opressed?

I’m musing and reflecting on points you wrote about high status faces earlier. And coming to realise this is quite true, observing other mens faces this last week . It’s definitely a thing.

for some reason from all your descriptions and the references of J. Pheonix similarities..
I am imagining you looking like This actor ..

michael ironside the actor that always plays movie baddies. from Total Recall, Scanners. Etc
He fits the bill of the description!! Haha.

Anyway, I will show you the girl and her boyfriend.

1. Just to be clear - I did NOT get laid with her. I don't even know her personally.
2. I know her and his Instagram because they're both local celebrities and I've recognized her. (she's a model, he's an actor).

She: https://www.instagram.com/edyta_zajac/

He: https://www.instagram.com/_michal_mikolajczak/

Does anyone else get the impression she's bit more perverse than him, while he's more "innocent" than her?

Oh yeah now we’re talking
Picture speak louder than words as they say! thats ‘scorching’ hot on my scale.
Re Slavic women. For sure we rate them higher as they are exotic. Slavic looks and faces/bone structure we dont have in our part of the world. Very desirable.

My girlfriend said that in her eyes the guy is not sexy at all and she understands the woman's reaction perfectly - according to my girlfriend, I'm incomparably sexier, completely different league. My girlfriend said "why is she with that loser?". She said she feels sorry for the other girl and it's really sad. She said she would prefer to never see the guy either on Instagram or in real life - the sight of him irritates her. It makes her agressive, sadistic side "ignited".

So I don't get why the girl was so attracted to me from the first sight, but my girlfriend says she understands it very well, in fact according to her it's something painfully obvious.

I should probably add that:

1. My girlfriend is a sociopath/psychopath to a much larger degree than me. I'm the softer, gentler person in the relationship (surprised? ).

2. She has a long and rich history of abusing her partners - history she is VERY PROUD OF and she made sure to boast to me about every detail. She did emotional, physical and...sexual abuse. Like she liked beating her men with her fists, hard, drawing blood (she's 5'11 and not harmless). And sexual abuse...well, let's say she did some really disguisting things.

She also proposed that we meet with her exes and abuse them together. She says gay stuff wouldn't be really gay if I was the active side and the other man "my bitch". She thinks it would actually be very manly from my side. I've declined, as I find it disgusting...but also strangely flattering. I mean the vibe of a woman saying "I want my ex to be your bitch". (BTW Her idea was that the ex would NOT have a right to fuck or even touch her.)

3. She feels strong agression and sadistic impulses towards let's say "innocent" men. The other girl's boyfriend is awakening this side of her. Just looking at his photos on Instagram makes her feel agression.

4. Despite her "not so nice" nature, my girlfriend treats me in a extremely nice, gentle, sweet, understanding and supportive manner. I find her behavior literally perfect and I don't even know what she might improve. I never got a momenty of bad behavior from her - even for one second.

5. She enjoys me treating her in physically rough manner. She likes me slapping in the face, but also has fantasies about me beating her up hard, with a lot of blood. I decline, because I don't want to damage her beatiful face.

BTW Such "crazy" vibes and relationships are rarely encountered in PUA circles, but are much more frequent in the BDSM circles.

So that's my life... IOIs from high level women, a super hot psychopatic girlfriend who also behaves perfectly... BTW I find my girlfriend hotter than the other girl.

And yet I didn't lose my virginity untill 20+ and also I've struggled in my PUA years. I became good when I've started to hang out with naturals.

very interesting info re your GF thanks for sharing.

I also think that's an interesting story - but also a strange, confusing one. Events in my life have often proven my beliefs were wrong.

I'm certainly an outlier in the context of mainstream society, and also in the context of PUA community... But there are some similar people in the BDSM community. I've also noticed that I often get good understanding with people who are into BDSM, or are highly sexual, or sociopathic/psychopathic, visibly dominant or submissive in terms of personality (not necessarily into BDSM as practice)... I often perceive PUAs to be superficial, operating on the level of "empty" social games and...strangely asexual.

As for Aaron Sleazy, it's interesting that we both are highly critical of the PUA community. He even wrote a book criticising the community ("Debunking the Seduction Community").

Yeah great book. I followed sleazy for years and studied all his books for tips on quick pulls and physical game.
A few years ago i returned to his blog. But he’s changed his worldview quite a lot. His blog name Aaron “shizo” Sleazy pretty much says it. And his followers include incels and virgins. They are obsessed with ‘Chad’ over there. Chads and Stacey’s.

There is a "sexual underground" where there is...a lot of sex. Like swinger communities and parts of BDSM community.

This is also funny in the context of how lame PUA community looks in comparison.

On a weekend night, PUAs go to clubs, do approaches, try techniques, often get rejected, treated without respect etc etc... Meanwhile on the same weekend night there are swinger and BDMS guys who cum into more than one woman...with 0% chance of failure. They come for guaranteed sex and are treated like kings all the time.

My girlfriend is bisexual and likes group sex (and BDSM as well)... I don't accept other men, so we do group sex only with her female friends... These are all highly hedonistic, bisexual girls. All are great looking - my girlfriend selects and recruits only really hot ones. She sleeps with them first 1-on-1 and teaches them obedience - I meet them when they they're ready to properly serve me.

Rules are more or less:

1. All the women, including my girlfriend, do what I want.
2. The "lesser bitches" also do what my girlfriend wants.
3. My/her property have no right to say "no" to anything.
4. Being my/our property is a great honor, so the bitches have a duty to show deep happiness, enthusiasm and gratitude.

My girlfriend can for example grab her friend by the hair, point to my cock and say "this is your GOD!". And then orders the friend to call my cock her God. My Gf likes doing thing like slapping them in the face, telling them they're "bitches good only for fucking", is tellling how "you don't deserve this dick, it's a mercy given to you, you worthless whore". Etc etc.

The women come to us for the great sex (both me and my girlfriend are great at this and other women are also good) and for extreme humiliation, extreme experience and yet "luxurious". The great looks of my girlfriend and others make it seem like some elite forbidden fruit for the chosen few. In comparison the rest of the world looks...boring.

My girlfriend also likes to sometimes add some Pagan ritual elements, blood drinking, my semen as "holy sacrament", fucking during at night in private forest/garden, etc etc...

If somebody is interested in such things, I recommend taking interest in BDSM communities. I'm not saying getting such things will be easy, but there are some really interesting women in the BDSM circles.

If somebody is more interested in normal sex, I recommend taking interest in swinger communities, sex clubs.




Yes, PM it, I will gladly listen.

I dipped into the swinger lifestyle on a few apps the last few years. FEELD was one.
dabbled in it and went to a sex club .
which was off the hook wild stuff happening, I almost had PTSD after it haha.
Full on!!!!

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@CharmingPsychopath
In reference to my earlier post .. this ‘baddie’ actor ..

Google Image Result for https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNTcyZjgyNjItYWYyNC00OTIwLWJmZTctNzUwMGQ5ZjBkZjAxXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg