Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I'm certainly an outlier in the context of mainstream society, and also in the context of PUA community... But there are some similar people in the BDSM community. I've also noticed that I often get good understanding with people who are into BDSM, or are highly sexual, or sociopathic/psychopathic, visibly dominant or submissive in terms of personality (not necessarily into BDSM as practice)... I often perceive PUAs to be superficial, operating on the level of "empty" social games and...strangely asexual.

You have hit on something pretty great here tbh. And I’d speculate probably a lot of guys on the forum without experience with women wouldnt get it

I’ll illustrate from my own journey with PuA (aged 29 -35 ).Up until thenI’d always been a serial monogamist after losing my ‘v-plates’ at 17 . And w her I immediately made her a Gf and LTR of 3-4 years heading into University years. I’d had drunken ONS during and I between a lot of these LTRs or shorter 6-9 month relationships. So it was a case of get very drunk and maybe get lucky those occasions.

Then I went travelling late 20s and moved into my PUA journey/ and into my hardcore pickup phase 2 years later. Getting quicker results in 1-3 days and then lotsa SNLs in bars and clubs for years. And lotsa quick pulls towards the last few years. So a development/improvement of sorts during the journey.

a key learning and ‘skill’ in that journey was developing a ‘gearbox’ of ‘states’ . Once I’d hit on the understanding that being in a ‘sexual state’ was required to get faster lays. To get the kind of sexual response from a woman to make that happen *I* had to be in that state -> and SIGNAL (communicate) that effectively to her in a powerful way and then read her SIGNALS back to me to observe does this TURN HER ON. Is she GETTING AROUSED SEXUALLY.

So to discover this ‘gear’ this zone, I had to work on being shameless in my signalling.

ie - being a shameless big flirt and have the undertone = sexual.
Within a social context. So somewhat discreetly . All done indirectly in speech. But quite obviously and directly with body language

that’s kinda the summary and core of it.

A great pickup I did once would illustrate.
I did two things in that I remember .

1. Hard stopped her pretending I was a bouncer at the bar doing a security check ( bullshit Authority Frame/ Power Frame)
Se went on to sit with her friends.
But I saw some iois her looking over later.

2. Later I renegaged her as she walked towards the bar and asked some logistics questions (where u from, what u do, who u with tonite , what’s ur plans) she told me she was an ex pro tennis player during this and staying in an apartment in inner north of city.

3. Transitioned info a travel story where I talked about the WEATHER. Yes. The weather . How I travelled in the North of this country where it’s in the tropics zone for weather. Describing in detail the high humidity ,how it was both HOT and WET . In detail. How it made meSWEAT, made my T-shirt STICK TO MY SKIN. all the cold showers I had to take .at the howl and then how I would be SWEATING immediately again when I returned ourside info the awful hot and sticky humidity. It was a big sensory story, an adaptation of a speed seduction pattern (as I’d been studing Ross Jeffries material during that time and testing some stuff out)
Whilst doing that story I gear shifted into sexual state . shamelessly projecting my thoughts through a provocative posture and body language. With my eyes, smile , leaning in and over her a bit. Projecting dominance . Big flirting display. Running my eyes over her breasts necklace etc and letting her see. All the while telling my ‘Weather story’ which just so happened to parallel with sex stuff. Hot, wet, sweaty, fucking.

needless to say she got the message big time. Her body opened up. She leaned back on the table and just about spread her legs. I could see she was getting aroused by it all and wet right then and there.

soon after we jumped in a taxi togehter as I was “going her way, we ought to share (wink wink)’ and I just got out followed her in . Straight to her room. She drops straight down on her knees and BJ , porno style, looking up at me all submissive , giving me a show. And then of course I fucked her in her bed in her lovely apartment with a great view of the city skyscrapers.
Pretty nice!

so.. THATS an example of what worked for me . A GearBox and a strong sexualised state and sexual communication,

I think this is what you term ‘state transfer’.

guys need to find this and work on it to get better at picking up women. After that all the routines and tactics and techniques will “work” but also then are just ‘fluff talk’ or smooth talk to have non boring shit to say to get from A -> B -> Bedroom/ Fuck location. So a guy just doesn’t stumble and fuck things up with boring talk and kill The Sexual Vibe.

hope that makes sense. It was a Key Learning for me. Finding this state /mode worked And then finding how to Anchor this state and trigger it ,when our gaming in bars and clubs . Shifting into this gear at the right moment.

I think the word ‘shameless’ Is a good word to hint at how to find and unlock this gear and mode of comms with a woman.

I think a barrier is some guys don’t wanna risk it and blow the pickup. But without it like CP says - it becomes Asexual. The woman gets bored or confused and wanders off,

 

[D. Gately]

wasn’t an issue then but that was 10 years ago. To be with a 20s chick now and all that new slang… ‘vibes’, ‘dead-ass’, ‘dropping Ws & Ls’ , facts no printer’ etc etc

does that ever become and issue or sticking point from a chicks pov to mess up a seduction for you? I’d imagine there would be teasing from her.

I haven't found it to be an issue. As a big sports fan, you hear younger players say a lot of the lingo in interviews, podcasts, etc. I mean 'vibes' is obvious anyway. 'No lies detected,' et al.

If she drops some slang and looks at me like I'm supposed to know it, and I can't parse it from her sentence content, I'll just ask. I mean I didn't know what SnapChat even was until late 2013. Some sexy college girl literally put it on my phone and then snapped me from the ladies room, a bra pic.

If she teases me, that's a good thing, now I get to tease her back about something equally silly later and she'll laugh.

Also, given the age gap, she'd be very shocked if I did know all the lingo she knew....impossible right? chicks have their own lingo anyway. Now it's 'tea' instead of gossip or 'goss.'

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I haven't found it to be an issue. As a big sports fan, you hear younger players say a lot of the lingo in interviews, podcasts, etc. I mean 'vibes' is obvious anyway. 'No lies detected,' et al.

If she drops some slang and looks at me like I'm supposed to know it, and I can't parse it from her sentence content, I'll just ask. I mean I didn't know what SnapChat even was until late 2013. Some sexy college girl literally put it on my phone and then snapped me from the ladies room, a bra pic.

If she teases me, that's a good thing, now I get to tease her back about something equally silly later and she'll laugh.

Also, given the age gap, she'd be very shocked if I did know all the lingo she knew....impossible right? chicks have their own lingo anyway. Now it's 'tea' instead of gossip or 'goss.'

‘Tea’ .Have not heard that one.
Chick talk is funny.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

You have hit on something pretty great here tbh. And I’d speculate probably a lot of guys on the forum without experience with women wouldnt get it

Many guys WITH experience don't get it. I mean experienced guys getting laid using mostly superficial, social/entertainment vibes and not using much sexuality until later stages.

Such guys often don't understand how I can be a sexual object for a much hotter girl before I say anything to her. They think they should talk the girl into fucking them... In my case, talking is often more or less "we're talking because we want to fuck each other".

o get the kind of sexual response from a woman to make that happen *I* had to be in that state

Generally yes, but I think it's a bit more complicated.

Many times I've got heavily sexual reactions from women when I wasn't in a strong sexual state. Like when I was sleepy or thinking about something else or when girls were "faster" than me. It could be because of my looks, but there's another possibility...

Many people look cheerful, sad, agressive or gentle, or something else when they're just walking on the street or waiting for subway or something... And I think most of the time they don't have strong states of any kind at the moment. I think it's their personality "written" more or less permamently on their faces.

I think women can sense I'm highly sexual and (BDSM) dominant even when I'm not in any particularly strong state.

My points is that aside from being in the state at a given moment, there's probably also some kind of long term "personality developlement" which can also make women perceive a guy as sexual even when he's not in the state himself.

I've noticed that many guys when they "go sexual", they enter some kind of unpleasant-looking state of sleazynes or nervousness, etc. Like it's not a natural state for them. I think it's because being sexual is incongruent with their "long term personality developement".

In my case, I feel that if I was suddenly teleported to a porn movie shooting, this very second, I would do GREAT. No nervousness, no feeling of challenge or even accomplishment. I also feel like I would give the pornstars the best sex of their lives. And I don't even feel passionate about this. It feels like something easy and obvious, guaranteed....like it would be educating the pornstars as to me being the best lover ever. Like "I know this for a very long time and now I will demonstrate it to them".

(I want to highlight the "this very second" - I feel no heisitation, no "being unready", no "I have to think about this". I'm ready NOW. to fuck the pornstars hard and give them the best sex of their lives.)

I have this also with women I see in real life. "Of course I can give her the best sex in her life". "Of course she'll be amazed by and will love it". Etc etc. And I'm not even very emotional about this.

I think women can sense it and see me as highly sexual even when I'm not in a strongly sexual state at a given moment.

So to discover this ‘gear’ this zone, I had to work on being shameless in my signalling.

ie - being a shameless big flirt and have the undertone = sexual.

I think some people might misinterpret "shameless" as being provocative, distastefully sleazy, or plowing ahead ignoring negative feedback, etc etc.

I think being shameless is extremely important. I think shame is what makes sexuality of a lot guys feel forced, "sleazy" and generally unpleasant. Their "sexual state" isn't pure sexuality, but sexuality + shame + fear + feeling uncomfortable + feeling blocked + feeling dirty + desire to avoid these unpleasant feelings. And this whole thing gets projected - and the girl starts to feel dirty and uncomfortable and feels desire to "escape from this distress".

In my case, since I go into shameless sexual states and I feel good about the whole thing, women also get into shameless sexual states and feel good about it. I'm feeling relaxed and emotionally smooth about sex being horny, and so they also feel relaxed and emotionaly smooth about it.

And then finding how to Anchor this state and trigger it ,when our gaming in bars and clubs . Shifting into this gear at the right moment.

Do you mean NLP anchoring? Back in old days I've seen a lot of NLP fans claiming anchoring works, but somehow they couldn't anchor states of confidence for themselves (and were scared of simple approaching).

How did you "anchor" it?

As for me, I'm very "sexually loose" and I enter sexual states at sligthtest provocation. My mind goes quicky "you sexy whore, I'm going to grab you by the hair and put my dick in your mouth (....) I'm going to push your sexy legs sideways and cum between them (....) Etc etc.".

After that all the routines and tactics and techniques will “work” but also then are just ‘fluff talk’ or smooth talk to have non boring shit to say to get from A -> B -> Bedroom/ Fuck location.

Yes. It makes different kinds of talking "work" - but as "fluff talk" to get to know each other a bit, make going to bed feel good, not weird.

It's like I wrote before: "we're talking because we want to fuck each other".

Other guys try to impress girls by humor, talking interesting things, showing some kind of value, etc etc...

With me, the girl is often simply horny and I'm the source of that, the man she associates with that... She associates me with her feeling horny and hot and thinking about being fucked hard, fucked mindless... It's automatically interesting and automatically gives me value. It automatically gives me respect and value, sort of of status - because I'm the guy she's horny for. It kind of becomes "this fascinating guy I'm horny thinking about and the unimportant background of all other people around".

Instead of thinking "what will my friends think about me?" it becomes "how can I ditch my friends so that guy can fuck me without them thinking negatively about me?".

Compared with most verbal game guys I've seen...this is a completely different league. (The good ones I've seen have some kind of good energy as well.)

BTW A friend of mine has seen Mystery in action. He said Mystery is competent, but very overrated. He said Mystery is great in social games, doing sets, etc, but actually is not so great at actually seducing a woman in terms of making her desire sex. My friend said Mystery often gets stucked at "entertainer" role - when the woman likes the entertainment his providing, but doesn't have an actual desire to go to bed with him.

My friends says he knows dozens of guys (mostly naturals) better than Mystery at actually seducing a woman (vs group/entertainer game) - me included. He says he rates my ability to actually get laid with women, including very hot women, as much higher.

My conclusion:

1. Verbal game, verbal game "gurus" seem to be horribly overrated.

2. Elements of what was said by Ross Jeffries ("you go first" rule) and Gunwitch ("sexual state") seem to be the superior seduction model.

3. I think the disagreements about Inner Game are linked with this. Because "Inner Game" understood as sexual state projection can do wonders, while "Inner Game" understood as some kind of mundane, asexual feeling of confidence or self-worth doesn't do that much.

BTW I recommend reading this thread: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/in-field-visualisations.31537/

Since I can't write in that other thread (not high enough rank on forum), I will perhaps tag @Ratata here and inform him we're talking about similar stuff. I mean talking about how a man's inner states can affect women in very signficant ways.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Many guys WITH experience don't get it. I mean experienced guys getting laid using mostly superficial, social/entertainment vibes and not using much sexuality until later stages.

Such guys often don't understand how I can be a sexual object for a much hotter girl before I say anything to her. They think they should talk the girl into fucking them... In my case, talking is often more or less "we're talking because we want to fuck each other".

Exactly. This is where I got to eventually after experimenting initially w MM stuff and getting more and more lays. Then I just dropped unnecessary bits out as I saw what was really going on (I ditched the ‘training wheels’ so to speak)

To me. Its getting good at reading signals in the early stage of the interaction. Or else it could be described as understanding the correct Frame of the interaction. Ie that women can be down for sex from the get go, just from a first look at me.

Like, the ideal and most simple pickup scenario is just like it happens in the movies ‘Don Jon’ (Joseph Gordon Levitt) ‘Alfie’ (Jude law) and ‘Spread’ (Ashton Kutcher).

that being, The guy gets ‘fuck me eyes’ from the chick across the bar/street/whatever environment,
he gives her the eyes back and approaches with a simple opener (“Hey” will do) He leads , they banter sexually a little bit and just he just does a strong lead and pulls her. Or she can pull him.

Whatever. that’s as simple as it can be amd I just work back from that ideal and try add just the minimum necessary that I feel may be required. Based on what the chick is doing or saying

Generally yes, but I think it's a bit more complicated.

Many times I've got heavily sexual reactions from women when I wasn't in a strong sexual state. Like when I was sleepy or thinking about something else or when girls were "faster" than me. It could be because of my looks, but there's another possibility...

Many people look cheerful, sad, agressive or gentle, or something else when they're just walking on the street or waiting for subway or something... And I think most of the time they don't have strong states of any kind at the moment. I think it's their personality "written" more or less permamently on their faces.

I think women can sense I'm highly sexual and (BDSM) dominant even when I'm not in any particularly strong state.

this is gold. Women do have a sense that is highly tuned. A sixth sense/woman’s intuition/ chick Radar. They observe faces and body language much much more acutely than men . It’s innate in their biology and brain. I read somewhere the average woman has 25 sectors in the brain that light up when observing body language/non verbals.
vs the average man having 8 or so sectors under brain scanning FMRI.

Most women are highly socialised, which is where this is radar /sense is honed for them.

guys potentially can have it too , but it’s usually dormant or underdeveloped in the average guy. As we are much less socialised /socially perceptive usually

My points is that aside from being in the state at a given moment, there's probably also some kind of long term "personality developlement" which can also make women perceive a guy as sexual even when he's not in the state himself.

I've noticed that many guys when they "go sexual", they enter some kind of unpleasant-looking state of sleazynes or nervousness, etc. Like it's not a natural state for them. I think it's because being sexual is incongruent with their "long term personality developement".

Another good point there , the state is not congruent or there is a block I reckon

In my case, I feel that if I was suddenly teleported to a porn movie shooting, this very second, I would do GREAT. No nervousness, no feeling of challenge or even accomplishment. I also feel like I would give the pornstars the best sex of their lives. And I don't even feel passionate about this. It feels like something easy and obvious, guaranteed....like it would be educating the pornstars as to me being the best lover ever. Like "I know this for a very long time and now I will demonstrate it to them".

(I want to highlight the "this very second" - I feel no heisitation, no "being unready", no "I have to think about this". I'm ready NOW. to fuck the pornstars hard and give them the best sex of their lives.)

I have this also with women I see in real life. "Of course I can give her the best sex in her life". "Of course she'll be amazed by and will love it". Etc etc. And I'm not even very emotional about this.

I think women can sense it and see me as highly sexual even when I'm not in a strongly sexual state at a given moment.




I think some people might misinterpret "shameless" as being provocative, distastefully sleazy, or plowing ahead ignoring negative feedback, etc etc.

I think being shameless is extremely important. I think shame is what makes sexuality of a lot guys feel forced, "sleazy" and generally unpleasant. Their "sexual state" isn't pure sexuality, but sexuality + shame + fear + feeling uncomfortable + feeling blocked + feeling dirty + desire to avoid these unpleasant feelings. And this whole thing gets projected - and the girl starts to feel dirty and uncomfortable and feels desire to "escape from this distress".

In my case, since I go into shameless sexual states and I feel good about the whole thing, women also get into shameless sexual states and feel good about it. I'm feeling relaxed and emotionally smooth about sex being horny, and so they also feel relaxed and emotionaly smooth about it.

this. Women can sense and read if a guy is truely comfortable with sex and his desires etc as he is projecting /communicafing himself

Do you mean NLP anchoring? Back in old days I've seen a lot of NLP fans claiming anchoring works, but somehow they couldn't anchor states of confidence for themselves (and were scared of simple approaching).

How did you "anchor" it?

As for me, I'm very "sexually loose" and I enter sexual states at sligthtest provocation. My mind goes quicky "you sexy whore, I'm going to grab you by the hair and put my dick in your mouth (....) I'm going to push your sexy legs sideways and cum between them (....) Etc etc.".

verbal anchors like saying “search and destroy “ (lol) entering the bar. Or “search and destroy - NO MERCY”

Music anchors like listening to certain rock music songs about sex, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Pumping rock music and sexual lyrics /singing,

visualisations like I am a 7 foot tall The Predator and holding a chick off the ground with my hand on her neck (still do that one sometimes, it’s a good one )

Yes. It makes different kinds of talking "work" - but as "fluff talk" to get to know each other a bit, make going to bed feel good, not weird.

It's like I wrote before: "we're talking because we want to fuck each other".

Other guys try to impress girls by humor, talking interesting things, showing some kind of value, etc etc...

With me, the girl is often simply horny and I'm the source of that, the man she associates with that... She associates me with her feeling horny and hot and thinking about being fucked hard, fucked mindless... It's automatically interesting and automatically gives me value. It automatically gives me respect and value, sort of of status - because I'm the guy she's horny for. It kind of becomes "this fascinating guy I'm horny thinking about and the unimportant background of all other people around".

Instead of thinking "what will my friends think about me?" it becomes "how can I ditch my friends so that guy can fuck me without them thinking negatively about me?".

Compared with most verbal game guys I've seen...this is a completely different league. (The good ones I've seen have some kind of good energy as well.)

BTW A friend of mine has seen Mystery in action. He said Mystery is competent, but very overrated. He said Mystery is great in social games, doing sets, etc, but actually is not so great at actually seducing a woman in terms of making her desire sex. My friend said Mystery often gets stucked at "entertainer" role - when the woman likes the entertainment his providing, but doesn't have an actual desire to go to bed with him.

My friends says he knows dozens of guys (mostly naturals) better than Mystery at actually seducing a woman (vs group/entertainer game) - me included. He says he rates my ability to actually get laid with women, including very hot women, as much higher.

My conclusion:

1. Verbal game, verbal game "gurus" seem to be horribly overrated.

2. Elements of what was said by Ross Jeffries ("you go first" rule) and Gunwitch ("sexual state") seem to be the superior seduction model.

3. I think the disagreements about Inner Game are linked with this. Because "Inner Game" understood as sexual state projection can do wonders, while "Inner Game" understood as some kind of mundane, asexual feeling of confidence or self-worth doesn't do that much.

BTW I recommend reading this thread: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/in-field-visualisations.31537/

Since I can't write in that other thread (not high enough rank on forum), I will perhaps tag @Ratata here and inform him we're talking about similar stuff. I mean talking about how a man's inner states can affect women in very signficant ways.

See above re the examples of the 3 movies an the ideal simple pickup process,
I reckon you ought to write a book CP there’s lots of great stuff in your posts

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I’ll tack on another post to the above #265 @CharmingPsychopath ..
There were a few guys in the scene that did some good videos /audio to help work on this issue of non having the right sexual state or Frame going into a with a woman.

1. 60YearsOfChallenge did a great interview with Rob Judge on one of his courses ( Unlock Her Legs I think the name)
Explaining how most guys get stuck in the mindset of wanting to know her, connect with her , care for her, have her as a GF.. Vs. Actually wanting to FUCK her.

2. Scotty GLL had an audio named “are YOU sexually available? “ that was great also.
Talking about a guy being in that state where he is DTF with a stranger. And this will get projected from the mindset/ mind frame.

3. Another course named “how to be an Alpha Male” by John Alexander was a great all around , start to finish course on all aspects related to how to look at and learn pickup. Highly recommend this course as it’s in depth and covers all ground more or less.

I’ll see if I can track down the first 2 videos/audio and post up here

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

This course has the interview with Chris Anderson/ 60YOC

Unlock Her Legs Reviews

Tsbmag's Unlock Her Legs reviews by real consumers and expert editors. See the good and bad of Bobby Rio, Rob Judge's advice.

www.datingskillsreview.com

it’s got some decent general tips stuff . But the Chris interview was the gold.

@CharmingPsychopath
In defence of the PUA stuff re your last paragraph. Yes over rated.
But to me , the tactics and techniques became just a vehicle /training wheels/transitions for me to get more sexual. Nice lil canned bits where I didn’t have to think re conversation. I could just project and get more sexual/sleazy with the material.

eg I could do a palm read in a jokey way and twist the ending to “oh and see this line here, the long one? That’s your BLOWJOB line” and just smirk and deadpan at the end,

cold reading was also great for me
“ yknow I have a feeling about you.. an intuition ..blah blah < insert sexual frame on girl> . Got great reaults that lead to a sexual vibe with that .

So the guys that are failing with these ‘tactics & techniques’ are just missing the point re using them to convey sexual interest, using them as an excuse to touch, get closer , project sexuality,

and tbf this is not pointed out by the gurus either. They hide it , as that keeps the students coming back for more content, more $$$& income, keeps the students on the hook .

 

[Ratata]

CharmingPsychopath, your post resonated with me.

If I have learned one thing... It's that... Most guys don't believe my stories. When done in the wrong forums, I'll get laughed out of the room, downvoted, and ridiculed. They have a really hard time grasping that this kind of magnetism is in fact possible to master, by sheer mastery of your own mind. Your own energy, as it were.

I feel like I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... But I digress... xD

But maybe that's ok. Maybe it's completely fine. Let them have their bliss. Let them stay ignorant.

With that said, I started out with Mystery Method, like most did back in those days. It led me onto something. After testing out some gambits and getting the first positive reactions from women, I remember thinking "Hey wtf just happened there? This shit actually works???" Oh boy that led me down such a rabbit hole...

The fact is, that "muggle info" (i.e. MM et al.) has its niche. Those guys in the muggle forums, they need that to get started. They're novices. And it never hurts to have a good "non magic" foundation. So ironic that it would come from Mystery tho... But he truly did the world a service.

Is it the best out there? Nah. Tons of factual mistakes and bad assumptions. OTOH it still works well enough tho. And for most muggles, that's more than enough. It's not necessary for most men to be able to attract hot women from the other side of the room by sheer mind mastery, meditation or powerful magical incantations.

But it is fun.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Is it the best out there? Nah. Tons of factual mistakes and bad assumptions. OTOH it still works well enough tho. And for most muggles, that's more than enough. It's not necessary for most men to be able to attract hot women from the other side of the room by sheer mind mastery, meditation or powerful magical incantations.

I would be interested in hearing about this transition.

You mean that after being technical for a while you reached a point where you can just be in a room and girls are attracted to you?

I do believe you by the way, I’m just wondering what exactly do you mean with that magic and how do you go from doing gambits and pickup to being magnetic without effort.

 

[Ratata]

I would be interested in hearing about this transition.

You mean that after being technical for a while you reached a point where you can just be in a room and girls are attracted to you?

I do believe you by the way, I’m just wondering what exactly do you mean with that magic and how do you go from doing gambits and pickup to being magnetic without effort.

No, I did not "reach a point". I started investigating other approaches to social magnetism and attraction. I went heavily into "natural game" and explored those concepts. As a "logical" perhaps spergy person, a lot of that was pretty hard to grasp. Then I went heavily into RSD-style state-driven game, which - NGL - is quite fun. And finally I found the most laid-back and passive game of all, that of Brent Smith. He has kind of social value game where you generate most of the attraction by being social and cool with everyone instead of going directly after the hotties. In turn that gives you insane social value in any given venue. But if you look at his videos and the info he has out there (which there is less and less of as time goes by btw), you'll see that he also relies heavily on manifestation - and he did it way before it was cool.

And then I read some posts here and there about people who did visualisations and meditation, and how that worked. RSD has always talked highly of The Power of Now, for instance, so perhaps it's not so magical. But the experiences I've had from merely doing those things has been nothing short of magical. We're talking stuff that sounds like pure fantasy. But it actually happened.

Look, if you just want to get laid, go with the proven, logical system. But if you want ... more. Don't you think this stuff is at least worth a small investigation? A short and perhaps frivolous broadening of your mind, if nothing else just for shits and giggles?

Here, have some heroin. What's the harm?

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

If I have learned one thing... It's that... Most guys don't believe my stories. When done in the wrong forums, I'll get laughed out of the room, downvoted, and ridiculed. They have a really hard time grasping that this kind of magnetism is in fact possible to master, by sheer mastery of your own mind. Your own energy, as it were.

I know the feeling. I've experienced some extremely hard to believe stuff.

BTW My mother says she sometimes had prophetic dreams that came true... Maybe I've inherited some "witch power" from her?

I feel like I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... But I digress... xD

Ah, the Blade Runner speech.

The fact is, that "muggle info" (i.e. MM et al.) has its niche. Those guys in the muggle forums, they need that to get started. They're novices. And it never hurts to have a good "non magic" foundation.

Yes, the "normal people" need normal methods.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Look, if you just want to get laid, go with the proven, logical system. But if you want ... more. Don't you think this stuff is at least worth a small investigation? A short and perhaps frivolous broadening of your mind, if nothing else just for shits and giggles?

Here, have some heroin. What's the harm?

But that’s the thing, I do prefer this more and would go for it compared to the logical system.

At least since the time I started getting into seduction, the very technical approaches didn’t appeal much to me. I needed some foundation regarding how things work with women in general, but after that I was way more drawn to natural game.

I’m just wondering right now if there is a ceiling with how far I can go only with that. For example to handle groups and social interactions I feel that maybe learning technical aspects of MM could help.

Because I am fairly ok with being one on one with a woman and trusting in the energy, but a lot of times I feel it is not enough in an environment with multiple people present and interacting.

This could also be because when I tried something similar to a be social and cool approach, I was liked by people, but sexually my results were not there.

I reached a point where I started finding this social game a waste of time and started approaching more directly which actually brought me more results.

So I guess my problem with this Brent Smith approach is that although I like it as an idea, I have generally experienced that when I focus on being social it becomes almost a sexual dead-end for me.

I have been in state and out of state, more or less social and fun, and it did help with hooking people in and having a good time, but not much with getting lays out of it.

If I could get that working the way you explain, I would prefer it way more to having to follow a script every single time, that is why I am asking.

 

[Ratata]

But that’s the thing, I do prefer this more and would go for it compared to the logical system.

At least since the time I started getting into seduction, the very technical approaches didn’t appeal much to me. I needed some foundation regarding how things work with women in general, but after that I was way more drawn to natural game.

I’m just wondering right now if there is a ceiling with how far I can go only with that. For example to handle groups and social interactions I feel that maybe learning technical aspects of MM could help.

Because I am fairly ok with being one on one with a woman and trusting in the energy, but a lot of times I feel it is not enough in an environment with multiple people present and interacting.

This could also be because when I tried something similar to a be social and cool approach, I was liked by people, but sexually my results were not there.

I reached a point where I started finding this social game a waste of time and started approaching more directly which actually brought me more results.

So I guess my problem with this Brent Smith approach is that although I like it as an idea, I have generally experienced that when I focus on being social it becomes almost a sexual dead-end for me.

I have been in state and out of state, more or less social and fun, and it did help with hooking people in and having a good time, but not much with getting lays out of it.

If I could get that working the way you explain, I would prefer it way more to having to follow a script every single time, that is why I am asking.

You've got some interesting perspectives. In a good way.

I've gone in the other direction myself, in that I almost exclusively do social circle atm. Perhaps due to age lol cuz I ofc used to do super direct club and street game when I was a young stud. In terms of what's more effective for "upping your number", honestly, probably your way. But also it's about goals and the quality of the relationship you're looking for. I.e. are you looking for a relationship at all, or just a quick fuck. Mine are that things should be as effortless as possible. That's what Brent Smith's stuff is good at. But then you also have to accept that you won't get all the girls you talk to, hence his advice on already having a life outside of PU.

Though those girls you do get through his system (that isn't a system lol), are heavily into you - which feels freaking great. In fact, you pretty much feel like a king. Like, she'll seriously dote on you, bring you food, and look nice for you. Stuff like that. Haha today a girl brought cookies for me, what a sweetie! You won't need to call her cuz she'll call you. I freaking love that! And that's why I take that over upping the number.

As for MM, dude, I wouldn't even think about it. I'd just start reading the first chapter away. Write some notes, and then go out and test, and then journal about it. I still journal like a madman bro. Cuz it works. As for MM, yes, it works too, for its uses. Especially the positional stuff is really good all-round. So yeah, MM will most likely show you some things you don't yet know, if you're able weed out all the pseudo science that is also there. It's very hands on, and once you know it, it's hard to unlearn.

There's also a lot of stuff you won't need in there. Personally I use zero of the verbal stuff, and the "model" part, cuz... Well, once you learn what simply escalating will do for you, and being cool with it (and not pushy), then it really stops mattering. IMHO more important for clueless guys. Me? I'm too busy freestyling and just having a ball. And if I feel a vibe, I immediately and without hesitation escalate. But then that's something I learned through reading up on natural game and a RSD stuff. Oh and hanging out with guys who did this on a daily basis. You learn a lot simply from watching other guys do things, also in terms of "WTF I didn't even know that shit was possible!"

Today I just socialize and notice vibes. And if a girl vibes with me, I'll escalate really quick. Take her around the corner and kiss her, basically. (Peeps screeching "me too" can go f themselves, they are creepy dudes who never learned to escalate smoothly, but that's what we have this forum for. I've seriously never had a problem with escalation, but then part of it is probably because I stop the second she's shows signs of being the least bit uncomfortable. That, and once you truly get push pull, it's seriously nuclear tool of attraction.) If she doesn't vibe with me, I'll just keep up the high value social game, and be on my merry way, knowing that they all like and respect me. Much needed in social environments where rep matters. Tho for your kind of game, rep probably matters a whole lot less, or not at all.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

You've got some interesting perspectives. In a good way.

I've gone in the other direction myself, in that I almost exclusively do social circle atm. Perhaps due to age lol cuz I ofc used to do super direct club and street game when I was a young stud. In terms of what's more effective for "upping your number", honestly, probably your way. But also it's about goals and the quality of the relationship you're looking for. I.e. are you looking for a relationship at all, or just a quick fuck. Mine are that things should be as effortless as possible. That's what Brent Smith's stuff is good at. But then you also have to accept that you won't get all the girls you talk to, hence his advice on already having a life outside of PU.

Though those girls you do get through his system (that isn't a system lol), are heavily into you - which feels freaking great. In fact, you pretty much feel like a king. Like, she'll seriously dote on you, bring you food, and look nice for you. Stuff like that. Haha today a girl brought cookies for me, what a sweetie! You won't need to call her cuz she'll call you. I freaking love that! And that's why I take that over upping the number.

As for MM, dude, I wouldn't even think about it. I'd just start reading the first chapter away. Write some notes, and then go out and test, and then journal about it. I still journal like a madman bro. Cuz it works. As for MM, yes, it works too, for its uses. Especially the positional stuff is really good all-round. So yeah, MM will most likely show you some things you don't yet know, if you're able weed out all the pseudo science that is also there. It's very hands on, and once you know it, it's hard to unlearn.

There's also a lot of stuff you won't need in there. Personally I use zero of the verbal stuff, and the "model" part, cuz... Well, once you learn what simply escalating will do for you, and being cool with it (and not pushy), then it really stops mattering. IMHO more important for clueless guys. Me? I'm too busy freestyling and just having a ball. And if I feel a vibe, I immediately and without hesitation escalate. But then that's something I learned through reading up on natural game and a RSD stuff. Oh and hanging out with guys who did this on a daily basis. You learn a lot simply from watching other guys do things, also in terms of "WTF I didn't even know that shit was possible!"

Today I just socialize and notice vibes. And if a girl vibes with me, I'll escalate really quick. Take her around the corner and kiss her, basically. (Peeps screeching "me too" can go f themselves, they are creepy dudes who never learned to escalate smoothly, but that's what we have this forum for. I've seriously never had a problem with escalation, but then part of it is probably because I stop the second she's shows signs of being the least bit uncomfortable. That, and once you truly get push pull, it's seriously nuclear tool of attraction.) If she doesn't vibe with me, I'll just keep up the high value social game, and be on my merry way, knowing that they all like and respect me. Much needed in social environments where rep matters. Tho for your kind of game, rep probably matters a whole lot less, or not at all.

Hey Ratata,

I love Brent . His mindset is so rock solid with women. What’s your favorites of his stuff?

for me, this very short interview that Brent did w Cliff ( only 4min 11 sec!) was the most thought provoking and inspiring video I think I’ve ever seen re comms women and being seen as /acting as an attractive guy with women.

I rewatch and review it regularly now that I use OLD primarily to meet chicks.

For all you guys learning (as am I ,still btw)
Watch this video immediately!
Then meditate on it and just beginto backwards rationalise every thing from there, re what this means

Ps -his 21 convention speech/lecture named “never chase women again “ is also super insightful

also Ratatata - I heard there is a ‘video course’ of Brent’s , of one of his bootcamps w students (done in LA possibly), floating around .. any chance you have seen that?

 

[D. Gately]

It's incontrovertible that the large majority of hotter, younger women in the US have low self-esteem, or average at best.

One study shows 78% of girls entering college report being 'unhappy with their bodies.' Another study showed senior college women upon graduation reported their self esteem as lower than their freshman year.

My own personal, non-representative sample of interactions with [dating/banging/friends] high-fashion models, fit models, pageant girls, and fitness models in the NE and Miami confirms this over the past decade+.
As well as for 'regular' college and grad students who would be rated 7.5+ having lots of anxiety over facial looks, boobs, weight [high and low], height [same, esp for really tall women] size of thighs, butt, et al.

...You have to re-assure them 10x more than 10 years ago about their looks, fashion, performance in bed.

So just had something come up over text thread that reminded me of this discussion.

Going out with this elder Gen Z girl, very late 20s again on Tuesday. She says she's going to the gym which she goes to 7 days a week. She's sent me lingerie photos before, so I tell her to send me one when she's done as I'm somewhere very boring [she's incredibly fit, 34C breasts, medium height, oozing sex appeal.]
She says she will after she showers. She does, looks amazing, which I tell her.

I made the innocuous comment that she'll look even hotter when I see her with makeup & hair done. She takes this completely the wrong way as if I don't think she's attractive in this lingerie photo with her amazing body. So I now have to talk her down after being accused of trying to make her feel insecure. [Even tho she wears some makeup on our dates].

SoI do talk her down, and it's all good but just reminded me that you cannot say anything, esp over text, *that could even be construed as a negative* until you really get to know each other and probably not even then.

No matter how hot they are they are likely very insecure of their looks and moreso as they approach 30. Every single guy here would class her btw 'Hot/sexy' and 'extremely Hot'. It doesn't matter. Unless you've soul-converted her, never say or text she doesn't look as good now/today as she did/will at some past/future time.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

So just had something come up over text thread that reminded me of this discussion.

Going out with this elder Gen Z girl, very late 20s again on Tuesday. She says she's going to the gym which she goes to 7 days a week. She's sent me lingerie photos before, so I tell her to send me one when she's done as I'm somewhere very boring [she's incredibly fit, 34C breasts, medium height, oozing sex appeal.]
She says she will after she showers. She does, looks amazing, which I tell her.

I made the innocuous comment that she'll look even hotter when I see her with makeup & hair done. She takes this completely the wrong way as if I don't think she's attractive in this lingerie photo with her amazing body. So I now have to talk her down after being accused of trying to make her feel insecure. [Even tho she wears some makeup on our dates].

Which I do, so it's all good but just reminded me that you cannot say anything, esp over text, that could even be construed as a negative until you really get to know each other and probably not even then.

No matter how hot they are they are likely very insecure of their looks and moreso as they approach 30. Every single guy here would class her btw 'Hot/sexy' and 'extremely Hot'. It doesn't matter. Unless you've soul-converted her, never say or text she doesn't look as good now/today as she did/will at some future time. u

D… careful now (!)
She took it as a neg or backhanded compliment ihey.
Like , ‘you look great -but LESS great than when ur dolled up.’

I’ve done similar and dropped a spanner in the works over text/sext.
learned to be very careful what I say.

My default now to act very .. privileged.. to receive.
And just keep rewarding the chick with short compliments or flirty stuff related to the pics.

I think all women are like this tbh , not just younger gens.
Cos all chicks have issues re some self esteem of some part of their bodies.
So sending nudes/ sexy pics is probably nerve wracking for them - putting it all out there for judgement,

I think Brent Smith said it best on an interview.

“you know who has lower self esteem than YOU?

…a Hot Chick,

hit chicks have the lowest self esteem on the PLANET.”

I found this to be generally a spot on observation tbh,

Older chicks have more confidence and self esteem than the younger ones , cos they are out of the Game and can relax about it.

qnd that’s why I live them

 

[D. Gately]

Yeah, believe me I figured it out fast.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Yeah, believe me I figured it out fast.

I’ll bet


Following on from my reply above #276

this is the Brent interview
From about 6mins in it’s a goldmine of info .. I think about 10-12min is where he talks about Hot Girls ‘ low self esteem etc

 

[D. Gately]

Today: 'If you have ideas for me to wear on our date don't hesitate, I want to be the kind of girl you like...'

Needless to say after yesterday I told her she looks fab in whatever. Lucky for me she does dress very stylishly and sexy.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Today: 'If you have ideas for me to wear on our date don't hesitate, I want to be the kind of girl you like...'

Needless to say after yesterday I told her she looks fab in whatever. Lucky for me she does dress very stylishly and sexy.

My reply to this -

“ yes I do. tight and low cut top, mini skirt w g string underneath, fishnets stay ups and high heels…... please x “

(always the to show gratitude lol)

or else to be a bit extra cheeky and funny

“trench coat with very little underneath “