Should I read "The Game" or "Models"

[West_Indian_Archie]

The Inventor meets the guy who made the mega-bucks from all his ideas’ lol,

All those guys are so "scammy" that it's never clear if they made "LA mansion money". They used to look up to that one Vegas guy (Vegas Dave if I recall) and that one dude Derek.

At least Sartain is doing something believable.

Nice apartment downtown with cool clothes money - but not the image they want you to think.

Millions in revenue over ?20 years? Sure.

In profit though?

Love them all, but call me skeptical

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

They used to look up to that one Vegas guy (Vegas Dave if I recall) and that one dude Derek.

Meant to add that them and their money, much like Bilzerian all had allegations against them.

Tai Lopez is in that broad circle of people as well.

 

[Francis]

That - "sneaking in" under guise of being a non-suitor certainly can work. Some guys succeed by simply engaging the less attractive friend first and ignoring the real target for a time. I guess a Neg could work in a similar manner.

Yeah I have zero reference of what it was like back then with guys negging girls... But from reading the Venusian arts handbook in modern times without ever really seeing canned lines guys were using... It reads to me like you are not even 1 on 1 with her when negs are used.

It's like A2 is chatting with her friends and you only neg when she contributes comments. Once she shows interest you turn attention to her and are in compliance reward mode. When you're into comfort there are no more negs and only freezeouts used as IOD's.

If gen z is sensitive I would only use it really for actual bitch shields. But the concept makes sense... Whatever your responses to her in the group are have to avoid telegraphing interest before she does.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

All those guys are so "scammy" that it's never clear if they made "LA mansion money". They used to look up to that one Vegas guy (Vegas Dave if I recall) and that one dude Derek.

At least Sartain is doing something believable.

Nice apartment downtown with cool clothes money - but not the image they want you to think.

Millions in revenue over ?20 years? Sure.

In profit though?

Love them all, but call me skeptical

Yeah man. RSD is on my personal sh1t list.
According to Google Tyler/Owens net worth $15-$20 million .

they are all total frauds the RSD crew.
Julien B was prob most successful w women and maybe Max. As they were the best looking guys.
The others pulled mids or chubby’s probably if at all. Full of ca-ca that lot.

Derek was a total scammer. Same with RSD Tim (an Aussie ). Tim moved on to his ‘Freedom Business’ financial scam. His videos for that were hilarious. Posing as a wealthy James Bond type, with private jets and flash cars. LOL. His students all up in arms they lost their money.

 

[CharmingPsychopath]

what you seen is correct, negs, tease all that is not going to have high odds with gen z....

Oh it's not about Gen Z.

I'm 40+, I've started my PUA journey in early 2000s. I tried doing Negs back then, in the early 2000s, and they didn't work for me back then. Unlike normal, less critical teasing.

I also observed other people fail over and over with Negs - especially in the second half of 2000s, after "The Game" came out.

I think it may be in the delivery and timing of how those guys did it tbh . The vocal tone etc . Saying them w seriousness. Negs are just teases. Backhanded compliments . Delivery would be in a cheeky way, humorously. at some point the chick ought to punching the guys arm and saying ‘ you’re such an asshole’.
And she’d say that cos he held his own or one-upped her in a funny way.

What you said re success as Banter is my take. Ie Banter meaning -‘ the pleasant exchange of teasing remarks’. Trading lil put downs back and forth / I’m better than you ‘ stuff

Certainly were worse when people were saying Negs in a serious manner. However, this doesn't resolve the whole issue.

From Mystery's archive - 22 September 1998, Mystery:

"a neg hit is when you 'accidentaly' make her insecure"

October 8th 1998:

"A NEG HIT is a qualifier. The girl is FAILING to meet your high expectations".

To me it sounds like something harsher than normal teasing.

October 21 1998

"Thing is, doing a NEG on a 6 will usually scare the UGS away"

This doesn't sound like normal, humorous, friendly teasing - because normal teasing works well on 6s and doesn't scare them away.

October 26 1998

"this is for girls who are 10s. They have to be played differently. Don't use NEGs like this on lesser quality girls. Thats all."

So this is supposed to be something that works on 10s, but backfires on lesser quality girls... Which sounds like it has to be something harsher than normal teasing, as normal teasing obviously works well on lesser quality girls as well.

So if you're using "Negs" to get laid with let's say 7/10 girls and it works for you, then it seems like you're using something different than Mystery meant back then.

I've seen many guys get laid with 6-7/10 women using "Negs" that are simply renamed teasing/banter. And that's good, but it's not the "super technique for the women of highest caliber" that was advertised.

I've seen guys engage the 8+ women with Negs...and fail EVERY TIME. The technique failed every time - failed to do exactly what it was advertised for.

My impression is that Mystery is dishonest.

Many people are shocked and dissapointed when they see how "Katya" from "The Game" really looked like vs what they said in the book. In the book she is "SHB 9.5/10". I would give her 6/10, max 7/10. And now everything starts to fall into place - if Mystery's "SHB 9.5" is really 6-7... And if Negs are supposedly for "SHBs".... That could mean that Mystery was simply getting 6-7 girls using "Negs" as teasing/banter - as many guys do, and the rest is just marketing and fame-building.

I've seen some photos and videos of Mystery with not-so-great women... Like the one on which he gets rejected by young 6-7 girls and finally manages to kiss a 46 year old women...hot for her age, but below my standards.

Yes, I know he also had some really hot ones, but what are really the proportions between the 6-7 group and the 8+ group?

BTW A friend of mine has sarged with Mystery.... He said that Mystery is competent, but also horribly overrated and not the mighty seduction master many people think he is. My friend praised Mystery's group game and light openers, but was quite critical of Mystery's 1-on-1 effect on girls. He said Mystery is more a entertainer than a seducer and that social game aside, the girls...don't like him that much. He says that he kind of understands why Mystery has a 7 hour game model - my friend thinks it's because Mystery lacks a good sexual vibe and girls treat him as a entertainer - fucking him when the "boyfriend & girlfriend" vibes start to kick in.

My friend also thinks that Mystery impresses other PUAs with his entertainment, opening, group game skills - and that they don't look too closely at other areas of his game. He says that he knows literally dozens of guys better at actual getting laid. (mostly naturals, not PUAs)

Tbh imo. Every guy has a ‘ceiling’ or a league /tier based on his looks.

Yes. And the idea that somebody with mediocre or poor looks says a Neg and suddenly a high-caliber woman starts treating him as equal or better than her... Somehow I've only read about it in the internet and I have never seen it.

I’d be happy to have the ability to pick up 7s easily on a regular basis just for sex tbh. That’d be nice

and occasionally if I got an 8 consider a LTR. W her .

I think for most people 7s are a good realistic goal. Hot and plentiful, not too hard to get.

9s and 10s are just out of my league realistically due to LMS constraints.

I'm attractive to some of them due to 7/10 looks PLUS very good sexual/BDSM/"vampiric" vibe. And often I know how their present or past partners look like - at least here in my country, they're never with anybody who is 7/10 physically if he is not rich. And if the guy is just 7/10, he also needs something extra - money or good vibe/personality, etc.

When I see PUA guys who are like 5/10 and they say "one should use negs for hottest women", I immediately know they're delusional.

But his ideas and how he broke then down were very good. His perspective on it ,
From his learnings as a Magician,
Magic is a con job of appearances, influence and persuasion etc etc
he just transposed it to getting women in bars.clubs etc

Yes, I think his perspective as a entertainer, his perspective on groups, etc is the best part of it.

it was after the explosion of popularity things became the mass-scam and the mega bucks

There were even cases of seduction coaches who were virgins. Or who couldn't approach without getting super-stressed.

But a much more common thing was and still is: a seduction coach gets laid sometimes...with 6s and 7s, but he's telling his students fairy tales about how he's getting the hottest women. And how they will get the results he's supposedly "getting" (really: NOT getting) - if they only go to his workshop or buy his product.

Yeah man. RSD is on my personal sh1t list.
According to Google Tyler/Owens net worth $15-$20 million .

they are all total frauds the RSD crew.

I've met a few of them including Owen/Tyler and I completely agree.

Julien B was prob most successful w women and maybe Max. As they were the best looking guys.
The others pulled mids or chubby’s probably if at all. Full of ca-ca that lot.

Julien and Max also suck.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Certainly were worse when people were saying Negs in a serious manner. However, this doesn't resolve the whole issue.

From Mystery's archive - 22 September 1998, Mystery:

"a neg hit is when you 'accidentaly' make her insecure"

October 8th 1998:

"A NEG HIT is a qualifier. The girl is FAILING to meet your high expectations".

To me it sounds like something harsher than normal teasing.

October 21 1998

"Thing is, doing a NEG on a 6 will usually scare the UGS away"

This doesn't sound like normal, humorous, friendly teasing - because normal teasing works well on 6s and doesn't scare them away.

October 26 1998

"this is for girls who are 10s. They have to be played differently. Don't use NEGs like this on lesser quality girls. Thats all."

So this is supposed to be something that works on 10s, but backfires on lesser quality girls... Which sounds like it has to be something harsher than normal teasing, as normal teasing obviously works well on lesser quality girls as well.

So if you're using "Negs" to get laid with let's say 7/10 girls and it works for you, then it seems like you're using something different than Mystery meant back then.

I've seen many guys get laid with 6-7/10 women using "Negs" that are simply renamed teasing/banter. And that's good, but it's not the "super technique for the women of highest caliber" that was advertised.

I've seen guys engage the 8+ women with Negs...and fail EVERY TIME. The technique failed every time - failed to do exactly what it was advertised for.

Sorry for derailing the neg convo, with the RSD negs (lol)...

Negs, the PUA definition, has always been a mystery to me (no pun intended).

Like what are guys really trying to accomplish by making a chick feel "less than".

I swear that's motivated by something other than wanting to bag a chick....

But back to neg use and effectiveness

Two of the big PUA-isms

You need negs for the mega hotties

And

Really attractive people are actually really kind and socially adjusted

These 2 things cannot be true at the same time.
Why would you give a backhand compliment to someone being genuine and nice?

While I'm on this topic, lemme throw in this Blue pill ism

Hot girls rarely get approached

I can't speak universally - but i've never found any of this to be true.

• Mega hottties don't need negs.
• Really hot chicks are all over the place.
• Hot girls get approached a fuck ton - even at clubs, especially with the music pumping and the alcohol/drugs flowing.

I've met plenty of "club queens*" that were ice queens, total bitches, but also super sweet, naive, kinda dumb - and they can/will switch behavior on a dime, for absolutely no reason with zero predictability. Getting the space cadets back to earth isn't really about insulting them. And why would we want to bring them down?

*Club Queen is a stand in for "10" - because the idea of a 10 is another unhelpful concept along with the above 3.

Anyway

In the classic era, The type of "negs" guys were talking about were neg hits meant to tank a chick's self esteem

Nice nails, are they real?

There's literally no way those words leave your mouth without trying to hurt the girls feelings. That's not something guys notice, much less say.

Are there brats and bitches in the field? - yes.

Does popping her over inflated ego feel good? Rarely. Revenge is best in the movies or on reddit threads. In the moment, not actually. It's fairly easy to make a chick cry. Same way you AMOG a dude - you turn their strength into their weakness.

"Spend all that time putting on make up, but "..."Spend all that time in the gym, but..." "Spend all that time making money, but..." - and just fill in with whatever typical insecurity or flaw they have.

Does actually doing harm make it easier to bang?

For most guys, the answer is no.

For actual sociopaths, the answer is yes. Some guys genuinely want to create a cycle of dependency/approval in the girls they talk to. But cats need to be aware of what the technique can do...

There's a lot of distance between a neg meant to pop someone's bubble and pushing back on someone's excesses.

Style softened what Mystery was saying by calling negs "pebbles".

The things that lovers and would-be lovers say to each other.

Teasing etc.

And even then - teasing a girl that you don't know is a tight rope.

Here's one I think Neil said.

Your nose wiggles when you talk, it's so cute

^This type of thing can give a chick a complex.

As a dude that's a "noticer" - some of the feedback I've gotten is that "I can't really be myself/feel free around you, because you notice everything".

Indeed, even if I say nothing about a broad - if she listens to me break down other people - as per female psychology -

"What about me Archie, what do you think about me?"...

*eye roll*

Le sigh...

 

[D. Gately]

It's incontrovertible that the large majority of hotter, younger women in the US have low self-esteem, or average at best.

One study shows 78% of girls entering college report being 'unhappy with their bodies.'
Another study showed senior college women upon graduation reported their self esteem as lower than their freshman year.

My own personal, non-representative sample of interactions with [dating/banging/friends] high-fashion models, fit models, pageant girls, and fitness models in the NE and Miami confirms this over the past decade+.
As well as for 'regular' college and grad students who would be rated 7.5+ having lots of anxiety over facial looks, boobs, weight [high and low], height [same, esp for really tall women] size of thighs, butt, et al.

Negging these girls doesn't work. It's the first thing I said in my reply agreeing with Skills in his EoY post. You have to re-assure them 10x more than 10 years ago about their looks, fashion, performance in bed. As to whether or not it worked on 9.5-10s twenty years ago is irrelevant imho.

 

[noReason]

There's literally no way those words leave your mouth without trying to hurt the girls feelings. That's not something guys notice, much less say.

I mean, that's something I would notice and say without trying to hurt a girl's feelings... Nails can be something a girl puts a lot of time into, so I am interested, and they can be either fake or real because there are two categories...

I don't know if the "Atlas VI thing"—where a guy goes on the board, calls his shots and then reports back that he passed or failed—works here anymore but I think negs will work for me if I throw the book at it. So I'm going to start there.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Oh it's not about Gen Z.

I'm 40+, I've started my PUA journey in early 2000s. I tried doing Negs back then, in the early 2000s, and they didn't work for me back then. Unlike normal, less critical teasing.

I also observed other people fail over and over with Negs - especially in the second half of 2000s, after "The Game" came out.





Certainly were worse when people were saying Negs in a serious manner. However, this doesn't resolve the whole issue.

From Mystery's archive - 22 September 1998, Mystery:

"a neg hit is when you 'accidentaly' make her insecure"

October 8th 1998:

"A NEG HIT is a qualifier. The girl is FAILING to meet your high expectations".

To me it sounds like something harsher than normal teasing.

October 21 1998

"Thing is, doing a NEG on a 6 will usually scare the UGS away"

This doesn't sound like normal, humorous, friendly teasing - because normal teasing works well on 6s and doesn't scare them away.

October 26 1998

"this is for girls who are 10s. They have to be played differently. Don't use NEGs like this on lesser quality girls. Thats all."

So this is supposed to be something that works on 10s, but backfires on lesser quality girls... Which sounds like it has to be something harsher than normal teasing, as normal teasing obviously works well on lesser quality girls as well.

So if you're using "Negs" to get laid with let's say 7/10 girls and it works for you, then it seems like you're using something different than Mystery meant back then.

I've seen many guys get laid with 6-7/10 women using "Negs" that are simply renamed teasing/banter. And that's good, but it's not the "super technique for the women of highest caliber" that was advertised.

I've seen guys engage the 8+ women with Negs...and fail EVERY TIME. The technique failed every time - failed to do exactly what it was advertised for.

My impression is that Mystery is dishonest.

Many people are shocked and dissapointed when they see how "Katya" from "The Game" really looked like vs what they said in the book. In the book she is "SHB 9.5/10". I would give her 6/10, max 7/10. And now everything starts to fall into place - if Mystery's "SHB 9.5" is really 6-7... And if Negs are supposedly for "SHBs".... That could mean that Mystery was simply getting 6-7 girls using "Negs" as teasing/banter - as many guys do, and the rest is just marketing and fame-building.

I've seen some photos and videos of Mystery with not-so-great women... Like the one on which he gets rejected by young 6-7 girls and finally manages to kiss a 46 year old women...hot for her age, but below my standards.

Yes, I know he also had some really hot ones, but what are really the proportions between the 6-7 group and the 8+ group?

BTW A friend of mine has sarged with Mystery.... He said that Mystery is competent, but also horribly overrated and not the mighty seduction master many people think he is. My friend praised Mystery's group game and light openers, but was quite critical of Mystery's 1-on-1 effect on girls. He said Mystery is more a entertainer than a seducer and that social game aside, the girls...don't like him that much. He says that he kind of understands why Mystery has a 7 hour game model - my friend thinks it's because Mystery lacks a good sexual vibe and girls treat him as a entertainer - fucking him when the "boyfriend & girlfriend" vibes start to kick in.

My friend also thinks that Mystery impresses other PUAs with his entertainment, opening, group game skills - and that they don't look too closely at other areas of his game. He says that he knows literally dozens of guys better at actual getting laid. (mostly naturals, not PUAs)



Yes. And the idea that somebody with mediocre or poor looks says a Neg and suddenly a high-caliber woman starts treating him as equal or better than her... Somehow I've only read about it in the internet and I have never seen it.



I think for most people 7s are a good realistic goal. Hot and plentiful, not too hard to get.



I'm attractive to some of them due to 7/10 looks PLUS very good sexual/BDSM/"vampiric" vibe. And often I know how their present or past partners look like - at least here in my country, they're never with anybody who is 7/10 physically if he is not rich. And if the guy is just 7/10, he also needs something extra - money or good vibe/personality, etc.

When I see PUA guys who are like 5/10 and they say "one should use negs for hottest women", I immediately know they're delusional.



Yes, I think his perspective as a entertainer, his perspective on groups, etc is the best part of it.



There were even cases of seduction coaches who were virgins. Or who couldn't approach without getting super-stressed.

But a much more common thing was and still is: a seduction coach gets laid sometimes...with 6s and 7s, but he's telling his students fairy tales about how he's getting the hottest women. And how they will get the results he's supposedly "getting" (really: NOT getting) - if they only go to his workshop or buy his product.



I've met a few of them including Owen/Tyler and I completely agree.



Julien and Max also suck.

Great stuff!
I love hearing the reality of the PUAs .. the ‘gossip’ lol.

Re Katya - those kind of girls ,the bubbly pocket rocket blonde’s , are kinda a favorite of mine soooo…. hard for me to rate her, an 8 for me maybe. I’d have banged it for sure

The bottom line re Mystery and Style/Strauss qnd their books for me is - there’s fair evidence they actually picked up and banged chicks. Using their ‘method’. And fairly decent ones.

9s & 10s?
Strauss - hmmm not sure
Mystery - quite possibly here and there. Being a magician /entertainer. quite possibly he did have a stripper gf or two as talked about in Strauss book.
in his younger days w prime looks.

But the thing re Mystery ,hevery TALL and when younger ..pretty good looking w the long hair.

So Yknow..Tall, dark, pretty handsome..magician /wntertainer yeah he did pretty well in his day I’d bet.

for the top tier - tbh height rules, height is the determining factor imo,
Not tall? Can’t get in the club sorry. That’s the actual ‘ceiling’.

I’ve watched mysterys infield stuff and yeah it’s often a case of “ speed it up mate “ .. he takes ages. And it looks to be over-gaming. He coulda condensed it down for quicker pulls etc.
for sure.

tbh If mystery had hit the gym and had a bigger more dominant masculine frame , and more masculine dominance projection ,he could have practiced a more sexual style of physical game.

His wingman ‘Matador ‘ for sure could pull chicks. He was muscular and very good looking. (I read somewhere rumour Matador wore a wig ?lol). Not sure is he’s tall too or a short guy. (?)

but back to Negging- I think the reason mystery takes so long being his focus on winning the Higher Value Frame .

And what he said about negging and teasing lines up with what SouthpawHuncho the ex bouncer ‘Latin Drake ‘ Guy says in his video I posted.

Soooo… yknow, do the math. Looks to be a key thing.

but both guys are Tall. (At least SPHuncho) looks to be to me. For sure he is a black Chad guy for women. a ‘Tyrone’ or whatever .

btw CP , I’m surprised u rate yourself as a 7/10…. From ur posting I thought maybe higher. iDK maybe you underrate your looks.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Sorry for derailing the neg convo, with the RSD negs (lol)...

Negs, the PUA definition, has always been a mystery to me (no pun intended).

Like what are guys really trying to accomplish by making a chick feel "less than".

I swear that's motivated by something other than wanting to bag a chick....

But back to neg use and effectiveness

Two of the big PUA-isms



And



These 2 things cannot be true at the same time.
Why would you give a backhand compliment to someone being genuine and nice?

they are true at the same time dude.
Because HOT women have a big B1tch shield. Because they get hit on so much.
They don’t have the time to tolerate every Tom dick and Harry that tries to approach them/talk to them /try pickup

so who they are in the Bar/Club /Gym or other social environment is not who they really are .. at home , w their girlfriends etc with their cute doggie in their sweatpants watching reality tv etc

So getting past or smashing through the bitch shield is very KEY in the turbo charged Bar and Club environments. Mystery and Strauss had it correct there imo. It holds up.

While I'm on this topic, lemme throw in this Blue pill ism




I can't speak universally - but i've never found any of this to be true.

• Mega hottties don't need negs.
• Really hot chicks are all over the place.
• Hot girls get approached a fuck ton - even at clubs, especially with the music pumping and the alcohol/drugs flowing.

I've met plenty of "club queens*" that were ice queens, total bitches, but also super sweet, naive, kinda dumb - and they can/will switch behavior on a dime, for absolutely no reason with zero predictability. Getting the space cadets back to earth isn't really about insulting them. And why would we want to bring them down?

*Club Queen is a stand in for "10" - because the idea of a 10 is another unhelpful concept along with the above 3.

Anyway

In the classic era, The type of "negs" guys were talking about were neg hits meant to tank a chick's self esteem



There's literally no way those words leave your mouth without trying to hurt the girls feelings. That's not something guys notice, much less say.

Are there brats and bitches in the field? - yes.

Does popping her over inflated ego feel good? Rarely. Revenge is best in the movies or on reddit threads. In the moment, not actually. It's fairly easy to make a chick cry. Same way you AMOG a dude - you turn their strength into their weakness.



Does actually doing harm make it easier to bang?

For most guys, the answer is no.

For actual sociopaths, the answer is yes. Some guys genuinely want to create a cycle of dependency/approval in the girls they talk to. But cats need to be aware of what the technique can do...

There's a lot of distance between a neg meant to pop someone's bubble and pushing back on someone's excesses.

Style softened what Mystery was saying by calling negs "pebbles".

The things that lovers and would-be lovers say to each other.

Teasing etc.

And even then - teasing a girl that you don't know is a tight rope.

Here's one I think Neil said.



^This type of thing can give a chick a complex.

As a dude that's a "noticer" - some of the feedback I've gotten is that "I can't really be myself/feel free around you, because you notice everything".

Indeed, even if I say nothing about a broad - if she listens to me break down other people - as per female psychology -

"What about me Archie, what do you think about me?"...

*eye roll*

Le sigh...

Well you said it there youself club queens u know who are Ice Queens in the club but sweethearts or naive dummies outside IRL.

sooo.. the bar/club has its own ‘Frame’ . It’s a locked in micro environment that has its own rules.

eg , status - who has high status in the bar /club to women in that environ?

Club owner, his associated high status social group, the DJ, the Pretty Boys /Chads, the drug dealer, the bouncers, the bar staff,

a player friend of mine always befriended the bouncers and staff at the venues we went to.. in my younger inexperienced days I couldn’t get why bother. But he knew the score. Very successful guy at pickup.

Re the negs examples - none of these will phase a Hot Chick in that environment.
Wouldnt sweat it. And ‘risk cheeky’ I would say.

to me (lining up w MM and SPHuncho)
I would say there’s 2 meta- steps to pickup there.

from the chicks perspective and mine together

1. What’s ur status ? Are you a Dominant , ‘Boss’, higher status type guy?

2. Get to know who she is behind the b1tch shield (a bit) .. continue the role play /banter alongside, (keep up the flirting)

And in this step 2 it’s start escalating( turn her on more / increase buying temp) , seed the pull, get logitisics for the pull, and then pull to location for the bang.

At the high level that’s the simplified process in my mind.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

And I’ll add re my above process /mental map of pickup.

I’ve banged chicks pretty quickly from bars & clubs. Like meet to bang time down to 30mins or less (sometimes). Once or twice it was 10 mins or less. Some was circumstances , others just an understanding of the ‘meta -frame’ .

30 mins - club, back of my car parked near club
10 mins - post late Bar/club, from alleyway outside club , straight across the road to an underground car park. Banged her in a corner behind an SUV.

my player friend was a real hound dog,
He banged a chick or probably 2-3 behind a big wheelie dumpster in the end of the alleyway ourside a late rock bar/club.
Also blowjobs in doorways etc.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Re this Katya (see video below
Cute face, blonde. Small, nice ass and probably small perky tits… hmmm yeah I’d fvck it!! my type big time. Loadsa fun

she’s better than Courtney Love that’s fer dam sure .lol

that project Hollywood mansion situ looked like it coulda been a fun time.. at the beginning anyways

 

[D. Gately]

Never wanting to disagree with WIA, I think he highlights a useful dichotomy in the ‘hot girls don’t get asked out much’ issue.

Club Queens, as he rightly points out, get hit on all the time. Any really hot girl at a dance club will get hit on/asked out every time she’s there most likely.

Even girls that get hit on in the club, they’re only at a club, what 4 hours a week at most? Maybe the few that are always out double that, that still leaves 160 hours a week [minus 55 for sleep] where guys aren’t alcohol fueled and the music’s not pumping and we all know most men are terrified of approaching in daytime, or in public, or when she’s in her social circle, ad infinitum.

Girls are unlikely to count all approaches as valid. An unattractive dude approaches her and tries pickup and she just laughs/blows him out. It’s like the meme we’ve all seen: at work it’s not sexual harassment if you’re hot enough. Her perception of getting hit on doesn’t match reality. She only wants the guys she's already attracted to at first sight to hit on her.

Guys who approach a hot woman and talk to her at the bar, coffee shop, bookstore, and think they’re hitting on her but don’t actually ask her out -they fumble the close because they feel they didn’t get the proper feedback- she thinks she just had a pleasant conversation, and maybe wished he did ask for her number. Doesn’t count to her. In fact, she may feel worse her obvious IOIs went unanswered.

Gen Z guys are mostly quite terrified of approaching and asking a girl, even a girl they know well, out on a date. [Or they wait 3-4 months and then do it in some over-the-top, cringe inducing, ick-filled way, some of the stories I’ve heard you wouldn’t believe.]

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I've met a few of them including Owen/Tyler and I completely agree.

Julien and Max also suck.

I’m stoked to hear this. So many questions.

which RSD guys did you meet?

that’s interesting re Julien and Max,
Max is short but buff, and has an alpha guy kinda face . Julien has a borderline pretty boy face .

Surprised those two suck considering Looks.
Probably their crazy ‘game’ working against them IRL.

For example in Juliens old infield videos I could hear him dropping in lots of RJ /SS type patterning , mind reading type weirdo stuff…

re Max - I could tell his infield was fake /staged tbh. Something was off,

his course ‘The Natural’ was hilarious . Him sitting on a white fur covered chair, holding a chalice or some sh1t. And just talking for 20 hours straight … lol.

and then Madison..,doing his hypnosis on his BOSS course. LOL. .. STFU Madison u plonker!

so many hours wasted watching these fraudsters … sheesh!

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

this is every RSD course ever


“Look into my EYESSSS….Your BALLS are Hypnotissssed” ‍ ‍ ‍

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Girls are unlikely to count all approaches as valid. An unattractive dude approaches her and tries pickup and she just laughs/blows him out. It’s like the meme we’ve all seen: at work it’s not sexual harassment if you’re hot enough. Her perception of getting hit on doesn’t match reality. She only wants the guys she's already attracted to at first sight to hit on her.

That’s a great point.

If the girl notices you and simply doesn’t want to talk to you/doesn’t consider you attractive, then in my experience there is no neg or routine or story and that can make her interested in an one on one scenario. She will just be frustrated that you are not getting that she doesn’t see you like this.

What I can believe, although I haven’t used it a lot myself as I usually approach women alone, is that if you end up interacting with her group or socialising in the venue, she can slowly start getting intrigued and eventually desire you as she gets to witness more and more attractive high value traits indirectly.

These same traits she would never believe if you tried to convey them yourself on the approach. It would just feel to her like: “Ok, here comes a guy that I am obviously not attracted to at first sight, trying to convince me I should be attracted to him, ewww”.

And this is something that can surely happen as people get to know and experience each other in the same social group too, a person can start seem more attractive with time than you initially thought.

But even then I wouldn’t say that the point is to neg the girl and attack her self esteem. You show high value, you show that you appreciate her as a person and then build on the tension that starts to get created.

And I am not counting the girls that are super testy when you approach or look cold but you can sense they enjoy your presence. These I consider as girls that like you already and simply need you to stay there and play the game until they open up.

One question I’d like to ask @D. Gately based on your comment, is whether you feel that these model looking girls you sleep with, do consider you as someone they are attracted to at first sight and a valid approach, and if yes, what is the biggest contributor to that.

I know we talk about fundamentals a lot, but sometimes I am wondering, when you are a high-fashion model, what do you pay attention to the most when a random guy approaches.

Focusing on the things that can be optimised. If we say that they want a 7feet guy with a model’s face, then that is not something you can work on.

Because these are things I should probably work on myself, since the approaching and closing part is something I’ve been getting fairly comfortable with, but the girls still need to want it in order to get somewhere.

 

[D. Gately]

Aside from the obvious traits, each hot woman is going to have her own standards and preferences as to what she finds attractive - and women's standards vary much more than men's. You cannot negotiate her desire. I'm going to always believe I'm attractive enough for a single woman.

The part I go on and on about here and a prior forum, is if you're the best-dressed guy she sees all day, that matters, that intrigues her at a minimum. Moreso if she's someone who works in and around the fashion industry.

The hottest high-fashion model I bagged in Manhattan I met sitting on a park bench, she was very, very tall with serious cheekbones, clearly upset and I sat down & sincerely asked her if she was okay.
She was upset and frustrated about being rejected from all of her potential bookings that day. I chatted with her, she was extremely intelligent, it was a hot day so I invited her for ice cream and her entire face lit up. She was so happy now to come with me for a bite a couple blocks over, we ate & exchanged numbers, and that's how our relationship started.

I'm 6' tall but not more than that. I do have a great smile, and that's something you can improve both with dental work if needed, and practicing your smile. She def noticed how I was dressed in a bespoke suit [any well-tailored suit works] and Hermes tie. Our convo showed that I was also very intelligent and socially calibrated, my approach was indirect until it came time to get compliance.

Conversely, a taller, better-looking man who went direct hitting on her that day, it would have been instant blowout given her state. She absolutely would have told him to fuck right off.

As long as you're within 1-2 pts of her SMV you'll have an opportunity for pickup IRL or online. I'm certainly no model-whisperer but I can speak about fashion topics they are interested in, might be the new creative director at Chanel. An equally hot, non-model, might prefer talking about F1 racing, or her love of literature, who knows?

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Aside from the obvious traits, each hot woman is going to have her own standards and preferences as to what she finds attractive - and women's standards vary much more than men's. You cannot negotiate her desire. I'm going to always believe I'm attractive enough for a single woman.

The part I go on and on about here and a prior forum, is if you're the best-dressed guy she sees all day, that matters, that intrigues her at a minimum. Moreso if she's someone who works in and around the fashion industry.

The hottest high-fashion model I bagged in Manhattan I met sitting on a park bench, she was very, very tall with serious cheekbones, clearly upset and I sat down & sincerely asked her if she was okay.
She was upset and frustrated about being rejected from all of her potential bookings that day. I chatted with her, she was extremely intelligent, it was a hot day so I invited her for ice cream and her entire face lit up. She was so happy now to come with me for a bite a couple blocks over, we ate & exchanged numbers, and that's how our relationship started.

I'm 6' tall but not more than that. I do have a great smile, and that's something you can improve both with dental work if needed, and practicing your smile. She def noticed how I was dressed in a bespoke suit [any well-tailored suit works] and Hermes tie. Our convo showed that I was also very intelligent and socially calibrated, my approach was indirect until it came time to get compliance.

Conversely, a taller, better-looking man who went direct hitting on her that day, it would have been instant blowout given her state. She absolutely would have told him to fuck right off.

As long as you're within 1-2 pts of her SMV you'll have an opportunity for pickup IRL or online. I'm certainly no model-whisperer but I can speak about fashion topics they are interested in, might be the new creative director at Chanel. An equally hot, non-model, might prefer talking about F1 racing, or her love of literature, who knows?

Thanks for this!

Yeah to keep it close to the topic about game styles, what I think I was always a bit afraid about with indirect game is that you go in like that, and the obvious stunner girl assumes you of course want to pick her up and are simply hiding it.

So she loses all respect for you, and at best she entertains your presence for a bit and the moment you try progressing things she starts coming up with objections.

But I can see your point, you have to be calibrated to the situation and make the move when the opportunity arises and not earlier. And if it doesn’t work out, it is what it is, she is not the only super hot girl in the world.

It’s probably the lack of success and access to these girls that makes me struggle to imagine a normal meeting scenario playing out well. Even if I believe I am attractive enough to them, I don’t have the experience of them feeling attracted enough to me.

But your description about yourself gives me what I wanted basically. Meaning the answer that you don’t need to be the super chad looking basketball player to be considered as a potential sexual interest for a tall very beautiful slim woman.

Maybe that is obvious, but as I said I have not interacted with a lot of high end fashion models to see their real standards, so it is good to confirm that even they are doable to get consistently with some work.

Because I was always against the idea of some girls being ‘out of your league’ and you should just forget about them. It’s why I don’t really like negs too, I don’t see the reason to bring a girl down a peg, when I don’t think she is anywhere higher than me.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

If the girl notices you and simply doesn’t want to talk to you/doesn’t consider you attractive, then in my experience there is no neg or routine or story and that can make her interested in an one on one scenario.

That's the point of pick up though.

Pick Up is not showing up, looking good, looking for pre-approach invites and then not fucking up.

If you don't think females can be sold, there's no point in learning 99% of what pick up has to offer.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

That's the point of pick up though.

Pick Up is not showing up, looking good, looking for pre-approach invites and then not fucking up.

If you don't think females can be sold, there's no point in learning 99% of what pick up has to offer.

A very salient point!