yes, yes, maybe...
So this post is on the beginner's forum, but it's not a beginner's topic.
@Kvothe So I'm writing this for the thousands of lurkers, not just you. You seem to already understand the game basics.
Some of the vets may agree with me, many will not.
But this (bartender at a strip club) is what I would call an intermediate scenario.
Let's set up the basics.
Pick Up Defined - pick up was
fast seduction.
So we're trying to
seduce - draw a girl away from what she would naturally do, what she should do - and do something with us.
Traditional seduction takes time. You see it happen at the work place. You see it happen at school. When people are around each other for a long time, small things, imperceptible things, can be done to move them from path A to path B.
Fast Seduction - it's in the name - the point is to compress the time frame from strangers to lovers.
We do this by understanding what motivates a woman, and giving her those things on the condition that she cooperates with us.
The more she cooperates, the more she gets.
Before I go any further -
you can always be straight up with a broad, "Hey, you're cute, I'm cool, let's get out of here" - and go direct.
That's always an option. That's not seduction, and it will still get you laid....
If you meet her "in the moment criteria" and make it easy for her to do it - lots of guys have success with that all around the world. If that's what guys want to do - looks max and build up your mental toughness. Please stop reading here.
Now for those who want to seduce...
The background players
- White Knight Customers - these are guys that listen in, and want to join your conversation and stop you
- White Knight Staff - bouncers, manager, "house mom"
- Black Knight Customers - they want you to make a mistake, and then come in to criticize you
- Black Knight Staff - they don't want anybody getting anything for free
- Other female staff listening - obstacles
- Strippers listening - obstacles
- Strippers trying to pull you away from the bar to get a dance - they're actually competing with the bar tender for your attention - because just like the social media companies - your attention = money.
The social dynamics of a strip club
- Everyone that's not a customer is trying to get money out of you.
- Every thing done, every "honest signal" is dishonest. Being at a strip club is like being on the casino floor in Vegas
- Nothing is an accident.
Typical strip club employee behavior
- They always stay in character
- They almost never break
- so much crazy stuff happens at a strip club - theft, fights, drugged out, drunkenness, jealousy - and that's among the staff
- They will go up to the line of outright lying...and then actually lie to you if it means money in the pocket.
- Bouncers, Manager, DJ, Strippers, Waitresses, and Bar Staff - everyone is on the racket.
- The music, the smoke, the carpet - everything is working against you
- the fact that a lot of the chairs have wheels on them
- a stripper will literally push you on your wheel chair at the start of the dance - that lil jump in adrenaline heightens your excitement.
- Using adrenaline as background/biological factor is why old school pick up says the best first date is an amusement park, the best movies are horror movies. Pick Up used to be really damn deep, but it's no longer that)
Even if these other people don't personally gain from whatever transaction - they will help each other out. (it's the same thing in all of Thailand, random strangers help business people by telling tourists "enjoy themselves".)
Everyone is in on the hustle.
The different jobs of the strip club, all have different social scripts.
- Bouncer - keep the peace
- Manager - settle disputes
- The house mom - deals with the girls, because the male manager usually can't
- Waitress - keeps the drinks coming
- Dancers...
Dancers
The dancers want you to buy more dances and more drinks, and then take her back to champagne room. 999* times out of 1,000 - there is no SEX in the champagne room. (That 1 time out of 1,000? We'll discuss below)
Her job is to make you think that maybe if you spend ENOUGH money on her* (*To be continued), maybe you could smash.
The escort takes it to the next level - if you spend enough money maybe she could be your loving girlfriend.
Just like Only Fans - men will pay a whole lot more for the ear and encouragement of an attractive woman than they ever would for Adult Vids and actual illegal? activities.
We're not trying to bag the dancer, but the we are trying to get the bartender.
The bartender at a strip club
That brings us to the bartender.
If you're at the strip club, but you're at the bar not down where the seats are watching the show - you're in a somewhat better position - especially if you're not looking at the dancers.
So let's do a quick recap
- Everyone at the strip club is trying to get money out of your pocket. (even the cleaning staff)
- And all the customers are trying to get the
for free or for a low fee.
That's just the environment of a strip club. It's like the super bowl of night life in some respects.
Who is the Bartender?
If she has a pretty face and a smoking body -
she's usually a former stripper, but sometimes soon to be stripper. Either she's slowing down, or she doesn't realize how much more money she can make. (but also how much more messed up she can be)
She's not only trying to get your money, she's probably got 1,000's of hours of getting money out of guys.
In either case, she sees the game every day, and she knows the game. Very few men will have the social/psychological understanding of an average woman, much less a woman that's in the sex industry. (those few men that do, run countries, imo)
Female Nature
It's fickle, they live in the now, they're emotional, blah blah blah. Everyone knows this, but few actually know what to do with that information.
Going a bit further,
Many, not all, but many women - DO NOT WANT TO USE THEIR SEXUALITY TO GET MONEY.
They want to believe, and the world helps them to believe -
that everything they got in life - they earned, because of their efforts. A lot like rich people, they want to think that they pulled themselves up by their own boot straps.
306K likes, 3,363 comments - netflixsports on July 15, 2025: "David Beckham sneaking into Victoria’s interview to keep her honest will always be hilarious 😂 #DavidBeckham #Beckham #InterMiami".
www.instagram.com
Now keep that in mind. She, the bartender but every hot woman/every woman, wants to make her own money, and not enough of lecherous men.
Even if she thinks it would be very easy to find some 55 year old man, and pull a Lauren Sanchez/Bezos kinda thing.
She grimaces at the idea of sucking AARP dick for it though.
The duality of woman
That said, women love to "look nice", "in style", "in fashion" and on occassion "look sexy".
It will never help your case to point out the obvious - that she's using her looks to lower the bar for entry for anything.
She's trying to always have plausible deniability. There are a lot of truths that we all hide about ourselves, that we don't want to admit to ourselves.
It is not your job to point those out. This is where a lot of guys doing cold reads mess up.
You literally have to pussyfoot around this topic of her using her looks to get ahead.
Because,
up until recently, the worse thing you can call a chick is a pro$.
Female Nature of Hot Girls
Again, this is from my experience, others my differ. *shout out to
@ChrisXKiss - cause I think we're reading the same book, just on different pages.
It's
almost impossible to generalize hot girl's life experience and behavior. These broads, like all broads, are just always all over the place.
But there's a difference between the club queen and the equivalently hot girl at the club
That difference is that there's (an imagined) status and hierarchy with the club queen and a certain armor, a certain personality that the generically hot girl doesn't have. Generically hot girl still has defenses, but she doesn't have the same need to "put up appearances" that the club queen has.
The club queen is almost a character that the girl behind the mask puts on when gets ready for the club.
- She's not like that at work.
- She's not like that with her brother and parents at home during the holidays.
- She's not like that during the day tbh..
It's often been said that the same beach in the club at 1 am, is a cute and kinda dorky admin at 1 pm.
The day game guys really are right in that it's easier to talk to hot girls during the day - because their defenses are not up - because "every day life" is not nearly as "dangerous" as club environments.
The key here is THE CHARACTER.
All of us put on the "mask". It's part of being in society. How much we take off the mask and let everything show - is part of living in society. Too much - and you're a pariah. Too much and you're a crash out. I literally had incident today of some broad yelling "I don't GAF" at the top of her lungs - and folks just wrote her off.
but...
Just enough truth speaking in the right manner - you're Dave Chappelle.
Say the right stuff in the right places to the right people - You're Donald Trump
A strong part of my game is saying what folks are thinking, but don't want to say - specifically to the girl I'm trying to pull. That's probably everyone's mid game as well, so I'm not as special as I like to believe. If that's not you guys are doing, you should learn to incorporate that into your game. It will boost your results.
Truth helps pull chicks, but in this case of the bartender
Truth can help her break character.
Truth can help her stop being an employee and become the person she is.
IMO, You have to make the girl break her character, even before you can run game.
(Arguably, breaking the character is the game itself, much like using peacocking items to draw in shit tests, only to flip the shit test makes you attractive...)
So how do you make her break character?
She's a hired gun on top of being a hottie.
Hired Gun Game
The key to pulling wait staff or employees WHILE THEY'E WORKING AND YOU'RE A "CUSTOMER" is that you have to get them to break character.
We used to say, is that we have to break the frame.
She's not a employee and you're not a customer.
You're two people that happened to meet.
*Mystery had a good line for this that I'm not remembering, but it's something along these lines. "We can't talk to each other
for real because of this silly social rules"
Think about yourself.
What would someone have to say to make you drop everything you're doing?
When I'm at work, Archie is on the job. What would someone have to say to me, to get me out of my desk, leave my clients in a lurch, put on a swim suit and dive into a pool?
What would someone have to say to me at work, for me to be honest about today's hip hop music in language that's more
authentic?
And an even more important question to getting an employee to become a human being and not an employee is - how can I accomplish that
while they're at their workplace?
- Folks listening in
- People that might stop by
- Work that needs to get done
Now let's combine these ideas
- Strip Club dynamics - the logic of the place works against you trying to get something for free
- Hot Girl/Club Queen mentality and the character - she's in character
- Breaking the frame of the workplace - work itself is an obstacle to even talking
It's a very tall order.
How do we pull in this situation
The ingredients for the pull
- You need a slow enough club
- You need less customers
- You need less bar staff to listen in
- You need less strippers competing for your attention (and dollars)
- You need to buy drinks and tip, as is customary, but not be a "customer" - someone with a target on their back
- You need enough time to have a casual conversation. Not a "pick up" conversation.
- You need to have a conversation with someone that's been trained to give you false signals, that look honest, but meant to convince you that they are in fact honest. She's always lying to you (until she isn't...and even then...)
- You need to talk to a girl that talks to lots of guys and has dealt with lots of guys in her personal life as well - and get through to her.
- You need to flip the conversation with her wanting to get something from you, something that's more than just YOUR money (it could be your approval, it could be just you releasing the tension of the interaction...)
- You need good enough logistics to make it possible to pull (can you get her off the clock and out of the club?)
- Your personal magnetism, has to be strong enough that she will "break the rules"/"break her own rules" for you
None of this is impossible, but
most of it is unlikely.
So why real estate?
Again, not all strippers, not all hot girls - but a lot of them get into it because it's fast and easy money (and a lot of them are low key lazy) - for a time. But it's a dead end. They keep thinking they're gonna be different, but they aren't. And maybe deep down they know that. Even for girls that get to the top of the sex selling game - the Bonnie Blue's/That one only fans chick - they still took a major lifetime hit.
At the same time - because she's selling this illusion to men - she's getting good at making pitches, at sussing out customers, at anticipating needs, and most of all letting her bubbly emotions boil over to her customer - she intuitively understands how to sell.
She objectively has the skill set? (maybe)
Does she believe that she has the skill set? (probably)
Can you turn that inkling that she could turn her life around by using what she knows to get what she wants? (Game!)
Next - a lot of hot women regular hot women and strippers/chicks with fake tits/bbls - get into sales, specifically real estate. (and sometimes pharma reps). If she's more nerdy, she tries corporate sales - but that's just a harder thing to do, because you're not convincing manipulatable individuals, but boring panels of corporate people.
And
- She knows this.
- She has girlfriends that have moved on from selling ass shaking to selling assets.
- There are plenty of these hot girls on traditional media and social media doing it.
- And as a kicker a good number of them get into investing....
Without knowing the broad, I know that she's heard of it, thought about it, and maybe even been to a class or two.
How do I know this? Why would I recommend this?
I have inadvertentaly dated strippers. That's how I came across this.
I* never pulled them from strip clubs.
The easiest place to find a stripper is at a high end gym or a night club. That's where I met them.
I've had a few situations where I met chicks at regular spots, got some traction with them, and then catch the same girl at a strip club - and now no more traction. I saw Diana Prince and then found out she was Wonder Woman...And now Diana wants nothing to do with me now that I know her secret identity.
But the ones that I've dated - transitioned out to real estate.
The real estate license test is fairly easy - and real estate is one of those low education high salary jobs. (Car sales for guys, pharma rep sales for college grads with no direction but have good looks)
My meta game is tapping into those unsaid desires and inner drives, and making that the unsaid promise when I rap to girls. There are lots of unsaid desires. Smart girls want to be sexy. Sexy girls want to be smart. Everyone wants to be understood. Any given Hollywood blockbuster has some universal message that you can incorporate into your meta game with any chick you talk to.
In terms of my
practical game
I want to make statements that provoke, instead of asking questions.
- She has to feel the need to respond
- Feel the need to define herself, and defend herself.
- None of it is really about me, all of it is really about her - and how she feels.
Just like you did,
@Kvothe - I say stuff - it stirs up things in you to want to hear more - and the exact same thing is gonna stir in the girl. (not that I was running game. I just didn't want to explain this on the beginner's board, cause it's involved and it will just invite more questions, usually from guys that are not approaching, much less doing night game every night for years)
You can say this type of stuff (you seem creative, you seem bold) to any chick, but
"why aren't you doing real estate" is a particularly rich vein with strippers.
This real estate thing is the first thing that will hook into her -
get her reacting to you, not just responding to you.
Once the first crack in the dam is there, then you build into it.
This is part of your front to mid game. (attract and build trust - both are happening at the same time)
Technique wise, we're talking jokes, stories, games, observations, cold reads, "noticing her", making things less third person and general and more first person and specific to her.... And then giving her chances to cooperate (aka compliance testing), but also some asserting boundaries (?negs, disqualifying yourself, qualifying her, screening for red and green flags, short and long term)
And then she's going to break character...
.....But it's a strip club -
everyone is in on the hustle
That's why I said,
I'd fail at this 9 times out of 10.
As much as I've done this, and dealt with broads - these chicks will fail to hook, or I'm getting false positives that I don't realize until it's too late.
In general, ith chicks and false positives - you want to test for cooperation - and the way to test if they're genuine is to escalate.
A stripper, and sex worker adjacent like these strip club bartenders and wait staff - are more willing to take things up a notch because the atmosphere/social dynamics are already so taboo in the first place.
I'm upping the ante, and they're laughing at my tameness.
Part of her job is taking my foolishness way past what
I'm comfortable with.
My worst strip club memory was seeing this absolutely gorgeous from the back red head sitting in some construction guys lap, and then when I got full view or her, cigarette in one hand and Manhattan in the other - she was like 4 months pregnant.
I'm not built for pulling these succubuses out of their hell.
It is what it is.
Now for the *s... Stuff I learned from dating strippers
- A lot of strippers date losers
- HEY WAIT A MINUTE...DOES THAT MAKE ME A ....
- The losers - guy from hometown, fellow junkie, a guy that "gets" her and doesn't put up with her shit - that she also finds somewhat attractive and respects.
- being the guy that doesn't put up with her shit as your first move, doesn't induce her to like you or respect you. There are plenty of asshole guys out there, along with all the kiss-asses.
- Strippers will date customers, usually whales of some kind
- local celebs - you know who I mean, rappers. Athletes and Actors are too smart.
- rich older business men - like 50K a week rich. Married rich. Put her in a nice place downtown rich.
- the strippers in Seattle and SF supposedly made bank, but hated the clientele.... They'd rather be in LA/Miami/Vegas.
- A lot of strippers hate men
- hate their customers especially
- Strippers and hospitality staff tend to date within the "industry" and not "normies" because
- familiarity
- proximity
- hours
- A lot of strippers are Lesbians (or become Lesbians)
- There is in fact sex in the champagne room.
- Some of these chicks are in fact pay for play. (if you pay enough)
- Sometimes the game is so tilted - that she's trying to give out a blowie for the $$ because lap dances don't pay enough. (if she's broke enough)
- Strippers have a lot of money and are also horrible with money.
- It's really hard to put that amount of cash into something useful.
- Drug Dealers have the same issue. Same with bartenders and waitresses.
- But wage workers are also pretty dumb with their own paychecks too.
- And people with all the financial knowledge in the world, still got smashed during the World Financial crisis
- The real way to pull a stripper is to have the thing a lot of them spend their money on - Coca Cola without the Cola.
- and you do that by either straight up telling her, or having your phone ringing non-stop which is a sign that you're a dealer.
WIA.
My impression is that I look a bit better than average, but not much better.
(again, males also) It's like my FACE has a multiple personality disorder. 
Well, I do have some psychopatic traits (that's why I chose the name "Charming Psychopath"), I guess they might have detected that somehow. But all 3 bouncers, all to the point of freezing like in a "life or death" situation?
They were in awe that he is "so alpha" or something. And then I though it's a religious cult, a sect for delusional retards. It's like these guys weren't interested in actual seduction and getting laid... They were part of some bizarre hero cult which disregarded reality. It was absolutely bizarre, insane, shocking, retarded beyond belief. It was "mental illness" category of a situation. 
will make you realise I'm also speaking the truth about the other retards. 
