LR South Korean Virgin

[DoWhatWorks]

Frames & re-frames is how you get conversions up... Let's get into it:

TLDR:

1. Met a girl while exploring the city and daygaming with @topcat (credit to him as he pointed her out to me as my type)
2. Approach, get her number and go on 3 dates.
3. After strong frames and re-frames, lay her on the 3rd date & learn she (was) a virgin.

So far she seems very sweet - think I got a girl to take the edge out the upcoming winter months lol (just in time!)

Lay reminded me of how you have to set an "emotional bed" before a physical one. IE think of all the reasons WHY a girl would give you LMR, draw out feelings of the opposite emotions in a girl as to WHY she'd sleep with you and that's how you get 90%+ conversions.

Still learning/perfecting this but definitely getting closer.

Long Version:

Spoiler: The girl

- Petite 26 y/o brunette, if you know me you know I have a type lol
- Light smooth skin, soft features, defined natural eye brows and very dark brown almond eyes
- Classic Korean dress sense with co-ordinated styling think charcoal jumpers with darker grey trousers, layered outfits & vintage caps

Spoiler: How I met her

I'm aiming for 1 lay a month from daygame through 20 approaches a week. This is done by 1 day in the weekend where I aim for 10 approaches then the other 10 throughout the week. I'm behind on my targets but got a lay 2/3 months I've started this which shows I could be hitting 1+ lay a month comfortably if I stopped being lazy lol

Spoiler: Group daygame

To be honest I didn't like the idea of pair or group daygame because I like being 100% independent but I'm also not a robot and I have to admit 2-3 guys doing daygame improves my results. I think it's because you maintain a social flow in-between sets which makes you warmer, with that said you can get similar warm approach by higher numbers, doing it in areas you like, approaching after socializing (which was the context of my last daygame lay), phone calls, watching memes or a hack I haven't tried that @alexlaguma told me was videoing yourself after approaches to keep your voice projection and social juices flowing

Spoiler: Approach

I've updated my approach to add a touch more intrigue bait of how I ended up in London AND aim to get 2 things to qualify her on, not just 1. When I actually stick to it, the interactions seem to go better. Anyway compliment on her outfit, she seems startled/scared but instead of ejecting prematurely I calmly and warmly stay in set, stay patient and she opens up. Qualify her on coming here from Korea and the places she likes to visit in London which says she has good taste, exchange numbers and leave it

Spoiler: Texting

Something I'm split testing is even after confirming we'll arrange a meet up in person, is chit-chating via text building compiance then re-seeding the meet. NO idea if it will make a difference as don't have a large enough sample size but it's what I did with her. Got her opening up on her favourite films, why she likes it etc etc before seeding the meet and she was easy to text and deal with tbh

Spoiler: Date 1 to 2

This is where I get hit with curveballs lol.

Date 1 - we meet at a park, then go to a hotel lobby for tea, then come back to mine. Something I'm being very conscious of is not getting overly warm and excited by a girl and instead give her the gift of winning me over. I.E be warm and present but not "sold" on her until I find something genuinely interesting to qualify. I then reward her compliance with touch. With this girl that tipping point was her opening about caring about injustices in the world and speaking for people with no voice which is why she did her degree and masters in media and communications. Funnily enough when I de-briefed post sex, she said this was the moment she felt attracted to me. We also spoke about colonialism, feminism and cultural differences. Honestly a fun experience. I've learnt to "dumb down" my questioning to make it easy to answer and guide frames that people with little to 0 sexual experience can connect with e.g. what has a guy done for them that made them feel warm and appreciated.

Curveball starts is she ends up at mine and cuddles but refuses to kiss lol. Never had anything like it. She says it's a cultural thing, I stay calm warm and that's the end of it. I walk her to station, almost expect it to die but she hits me up asking for day 2 and we get that in the diary.

Date 2 - after date 1 I had seeded we make matcha at my place, she comes straight to mine, I had no matcha or matcha set so we just make mocktails and again she's avoiding kissing me but cuddling and after frames and re-frames eventually get into a make out session. The frames I'll share in a separate thread as they deserve their own section and if I had implemented this earlier I would of got the lay faster

Spoiler: Date 3

She comes straight to mine to "watch stranger things" which was a call back from previous conversation. This point we're kissing readily. She's given a little resistance that the below frames solve and the rest is history. I did have to be a little "literal" by spelling these out which I don't like but in the future I'll do a better job of setting these frames upfront to make things easier. I noticed when I pushed the life's too short frame her vibe switched... Also making it clear that I'm not the kind of guy who'll wait around for a girl to be "ready" which can be as simple as laughing at her ex having to wait an x amount of time for physical escalation

Spoiler: Frame - Comfort in Competence

This is a frame I use now I'm running to more inexperienced girls, basically sharing how it's so re-assuring when you can melt in competence and depending on my experience I may give a non-romantic example like being in the car while someone reverse parallel parks OR dating someone more experienced and how I've been on both sides and find pleasure in guiding someone. This gives indirect frames that I'm competent and can guide her through her own inexperience or insecurities

Spoiler: Frame - Life's too short for arbitrary rules

This one's killer when you tie it back to behaviour they've done and I did this accidently but should of done it WAY EARLIER. This girl left her country to a place with a different language to explore. I refer that back to how people in her hometown are still there and may be born, live and die there without seeing the world. I then get her to re-live and get excited about her London experiences and re-emphasize about having "rules" about the perfect time would have made her miss out on this moment which I circled back on when trying to kiss her on day 3

Spoiler: Re-Frame - Quality not quantity of time

This girl had an ex of 9 months she never slept with. She slept with me in 3 dates. Part of this is when she mentioned how quickly we got intimate, is explain how I have female friends who're JUST friends and I have ex's I slept with quickly. Length of time doesn't matter. Quality does and if we're attracted that then we shouldn't ignore it because of some random unhelpful rule... Life's too short

Spoiler: Re-frame - Weird is good

Topcat helped me internalize this. Fucking strangers for mainstream's standards is weird. Being competent in your own life is weird. Being able to run effective dates (when most men don't)is weird. Don't shy away from it, fucking own it. When I deep-dive, escalate quickly, the non-negotiable frame is "I'm weird...So what?" If that's a problem then I'm not the right guy for you and you should go find another generic man who'll ask you boring interview questions for 1 hour and then triple text to see you again... OR you can spill your life to me and have a fun, fulfiling and immersive experience. Choice is yours. What happened with this girl is she commented on it... Then complied and now calls herself weird too lol

Spoiler: Virginity

I'm so used to dealing with (to put it politely) physically liberal girls that I didn't really believe she was a virgin until I saw how tight she was, blood and her actions lined up. She is very compliant, easy to deal with msgs often and clearly still connects sex with love. It's adorable to be honest

What happens now?

Think this could be a stable sweet girl that I keep around while I pick up other girls in daygame. She's only here until March when her visa expires so think we'll have a short and fun run. She's also a great proof of concept that literally my 2nd lay while re-doing my approach is a sweet low-count girl. Not that I care for that anymore but just shows there's plenty of MLTR girls there I was just fishing in the wrong waters. Think she'll also be good practice for me coaching/moulding a girl into exactly what I like. She's got a decent foundation (very compliant and mirrors me loads although I think a part of it is cultural) so curious to see what I can do here.

Onwards & Upwards x

 

[Skills]

Something i am hearing a lot how guys now a days are pretty much asexual that don't really care about sex.... Since we are in a forum focused on getting laid we don't get to see that reality of a phenomenon happening now a days.... Though i just saw a couple of posts of one guy not banging and one scared of getting laid... So now even on the forum we are seeing this... Bizarre... Related post... Bismarck and some other guys have been sleeping with Virgins fast, cause most women are not virgin by choice now a days, but do to guys that are like that girl ex... related post:

Socializing - One good thing about gen z and virgins.....

Back in the days to get a virgin, minimum couple of months to a year, usually they would wait till prom night, the dude needed to be a boyfriend and dating for a while.... A player friend of mine off the forum got a virgin second meet, first meet got a bj from club, i was really impress and...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[topcat]

Brilliant. I especially like your frames and reframes. They’re expertly done. Will be studying them closely

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Something i am hearing a lot how guys now a days are pretty much asexual that don't really care about sex

It's getting crazy out there, realising we're in a bubble which explains the forum change dynamics.

Personally I think this forum should be ruthless and not let it infiltrate.

cause most women are not virgin by choice now a days, but do to guys that are like that girl ex... related post:

Sad times for them, but good times for us I guess

Brilliant. I especially like your frames and reframes. They’re expertly done. Will be studying them closely

Been learning from you my guy, slowly getting there

PS Girl Assault Reframe I forgot to add

• A significant minority of girls I.E 10-20% in my experience have or claim to have been assaulted
• This can easily be a sensitive topic. I've navigated it successfully here and in other situations by:
  • Being re-assuring and saying that's sadly not uncommon
  • Reward her opening up to me by saying that's brave of you & I'm glad you're comfortable to sharing that
  • Set frames that her past negative experience shouldn't ruin our upcoming positive one I.E It's also admirable how you've not let that past experience block you from enjoying future beautiful moments
  • If she cries or gets emotional just hold her and show affection, kiss on forehead, bring her close to hug etc etc (this happened with this girl
  • Once you've been the rock that's let her get her emotions out, bring the mood up something like "Why didn't you tell me you were also pretty when you cried??" or in my instance I went more advanced with "I still think our S*x* would be good but wouldn't recommend for beginners, I just intuitively knew she'd laugh & would bring the vibe up
  • Proceed with escalation as normal

The trap that I think gets some guys is they don't want to be "forceful" or want to be "easy" on her. Acknowledge but proceed with your escalation as normal and give her the gift of a good experience. This girl later shared how special it was and grateful.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

PPS Ex Boyfriend Info

I was genuinelly curious as to how the hell her ex was with her for 9 months, how she was "in love with him" and he had tried to lay her but failed to close. Apparently she said "next time" for the whole time lol.

Anyway the TLDR was he didn't deep dive and illicit emotions from her on topics she cared about. She "cares" about global issues so I just reflected that to her while this guy would check out. Think it's similar to Chase mentioning how guys aren't hitting hook point. To be honest it's something I've had to get used to. But what seems to be working is quickly jumping around topics before you reach something she's interested in then shut the fuck up and ask probing questions that gets her yapping enthusiastically and talking about the emotions behind the topic not the topic in and of itself.

 

[Skills]

PPS Ex Boyfriend Info

I was genuinelly curious as to how the hell her ex was with her for 9 months, how she was "in love with him" and he had tried to lay her but failed to close. Apparently she said "next time" for the whole time lol.

Anyway the TLDR was he didn't deep dive and illicit emotions from her on topics she cared about. She "cares" about global issues so I just reflected that to her while this guy would check out. Think it's similar to Chase mentioning how guys aren't hitting hook point. To be honest it's something I've had to get used to. But what seems to be working is quickly jumping around topics before you reach something she's interested in then shut the fuck up and ask probing questions that gets her yapping enthusiastically and talking about the emotions behind the topic not the topic in and of itself.

Do you actually think he didn't get laid due to that brah... He didn't turn her on i was probably begging for sex .. many guys fuck trump supporters, religious nuts and fill in the blank without doing any of that. Dude was an afc

 

[DoWhatWorks]

You're right to call that out @Skills

I always do this:

He didn't turn her on

So was projecting what I was missing because I've been inconsistent with:

illicit emotions from her on topics she cared about.

but working on it improved my results.

Naturally moving forward I'll be maxing both to push up probabilities.

 

[James Cruse]

I wanted to see what your actual seduction method looks like, and now I'm here.

I've updated my approach to add a touch more intrigue bait of how I ended up in London AND aim to get 2 things to qualify her on, not just 1. When I actually stick to it, the interactions seem to go better. Anyway compliment on her outfit, she seems startled/scared but instead of ejecting prematurely I calmly and warmly stay in set, stay patient and she opens up. Qualify her on coming here from Korea and the places she likes to visit in London which says she has good taste, exchange numbers and leave it

From the top - there's so little detail here that it's really difficult to see what you did right and wrong. I'm guessing this was a 5 minute (or less) daygame approach, Paul Janka style? Is this typical of your daytime approaches?
I don't think her telling you why she came here from Korea is truly a qualification (not really) - alot of people she meets will ask her that out of curiosity, including many other women and service staff she would deal with in places she goes.

Asking a foreign women why she's in a country and her giving you a short answer = Not qualification (too common and too many other people do it).

Did you get any other compliance or investment? Did you touch her at all? Did you do any escalation (other than asking for her number)? Did she agree to a romantic date when you got her number? Did you go on an instadate or try to extend the interaction further?

The thing about Asians that I've found - alot of Asian women (in Asia) make alot of (genuine) male friends - and socialising in mixed gender groups is alot more common, encouraged and less sexual there.
So getting an asian (fresh off the boat's) number isn't necessarily an agreement to romantic intentions in the future. This even moreso when she's a virgin, with no experience in these types of interactions.

Got her opening up on her favourite films, why she likes it etc etc before seeding the meet and she was easy to text and deal with tbh

Sounds very friendly, not seducive. So you waited until a texting conversation to propose a meet-up? Not great, if this is typical of your seductions, it's very weak and causes more issues than it's worth - when you could have done that in the face-to-face interaction oroginally.

Something I'm being very conscious of is not getting overly warm and excited by a girl and instead give her the gift of winning me over. I.E be warm and present but not "sold" on her until I find something genuinely interesting to qualify. I then reward her compliance with touch.

This is good but did you actually communicate this to her with words (via frame implication or otherwise)? How much did you touch her - how far did the escalation go?

I'm getting the sense there was not much communicated here that it was even romantic or sexual at all. This is sounding like a typical two friends getting to know each other for her (from her asian virgin perspective).

With this girl that tipping point was her opening about caring about injustices in the world and speaking for people with no voice which is why she did her degree and masters in media and communications. Funnily enough when I de-briefed post sex, she said this was the moment she felt attracted to me.

So you got her emotional talking about her passions? Great, perhaps you should get women more emotional ALL the way through seductions (like many of this forum promote) and things will be much smoother and more seductive. This seems like you stumbled upon this in this conversation and she opened up.

I've learnt to "dumb down" my questioning to make it easy to answer and guide frames that people with little to 0 sexual experience can connect with e.g. what has a guy done for them that made them feel warm and appreciated.

How many questions did you ask this girl in this date? It sounds like you asked her alot of questions and you typically ask women alot of questions. Is that true? My stance is always ask the least questions as possible (Chase also recently alluded to this in a Girlschase article) - it puts way too much pressure on women, makes the interaction not fun and too logical and women don't like to answer them due to this. Answering questions is boring and unmotivating, even for most men. When people ask me a series of questions (outside work) - I just think they have nothing to say, are boring or really need something from me (for whatever reason).

It's super boring and it sounds like you're putting the leadership of the conversation on her, rather than taking the lead yourself.

Curveball starts is she ends up at mine and cuddles but refuses to kiss lol. Never had anything like it. She says it's a cultural thing, I stay calm warm and that's the end of it. I walk her to station, almost expect it to die but she hits me up asking for day 2 and we get that in the diary.

It's not really a cultural thing - I've been with Korean women from Korea. Women always lie about cultural differences because they think it's something you'll be un-informed in.
Does she actually know this is a romantic date? What exactly did you do to make that clear - in words and/or actions? I can't really see anything you did, from what I'm reading.
Asking alot of questions - doesn't mean she understood the interaction was a romantic one or seductive.

I did have to be a little "literal" by spelling these out which I don't like but in the future I'll do a better job of setting these frames upfront to make things easier.

What frames did you use to get to this point? I didn't see any described in the previous interactions written here?

Also making it clear that I'm not the kind of guy who'll wait around for a girl to be "ready" which can be as simple as laughing at her ex having to wait an x amount of time for physical escalation

So you made the frame of "I'm not the type of guy to wait around forever" - by only laughing at her ex for waiting a long time to escalate? You did or said nothing else to set this frame? It's not a great frame to begin with - but that seems very passive and unclear as a frame, even then.

This is a frame I use now I'm running to more inexperienced girls, basically sharing how it's so re-assuring when you can melt in competence and depending on my experience I may give a non-romantic example like being in the car while someone reverse parallel parks OR dating someone more experienced and how I've been on both sides and find pleasure in guiding someone. This gives indirect frames that I'm competent and can guide her through her own inexperience or insecurities

I don't think either of the examples here are strong or seductive frames.

This one's killer when you tie it back to behaviour they've done and I did this accidently but should of done it WAY EARLIER. This girl left her country to a place with a different language to explore. I refer that back to how people in her hometown are still there and may be born, live and die there without seeing the world. I then get her to re-live and get excited about her London experiences and re-emphasize about having "rules" about the perfect time would have made her miss out on this moment which I circled back on when trying to kiss her on day 3

The concept of this frame is good, we've all used it - but the way you executed it wasn't very impactful or effective.
Ideally, you should have used this frame in the first interaction and really got her invested in it then - rather than you doing it and not working because not much changed from the first date to the 3rd date.

This girl had an ex of 9 months she never slept with. She slept with me in 3 dates. Part of this is when she mentioned how quickly we got intimate, is explain how I have female friends who're JUST friends and I have ex's I slept with quickly. Length of time doesn't matter. Quality does and if we're attracted that then we shouldn't ignore it because of some random unhelpful rule... Life's too short

What did you say to make this frame though? It's never said. It sounds alot like you're convincing and sales objection handling.
Women brag about how long guys wait for them for sex as a DHV - it's rarely true. I'll believe it when I hear it from the guy in question directly.

Fucking strangers for mainstream's standards is weird. Being competent in your own life is weird. Being able to run effective dates (when most men don't)is weird. Don't shy away from it, fucking own it. When I deep-dive, escalate quickly, the non-negotiable frame is "I'm weird...So what?" If that's a problem then I'm not the right guy for you and you should go find another generic man who'll ask you boring interview questions for 1 hour and then triple text to see you again..

I never get women telling me or implying I'm weird for the things I do - and I can't recall this ever happening to me in seductions. When do women comment on you being weird or your weirdness? I'm guessing in response to you asking alot of "deep" questions.

I'm so used to dealing with (to put it politely) physically liberal girls that I didn't really believe she was a virgin until I saw how tight she was, blood and her actions lined up. She is very compliant, easy to deal with msgs often and clearly still connects sex with love. It's adorable to be honest

I think she gave you (some) compliance, despite the lack of leading you did. The not kissing or being able to escalate at your house while alone many times = Fairly low compliance (until the sex happened, or so it's described here by you).

Additionally: Most women ALWAYS connect emotions with sex, no matter what they say. If women didn't - they fuck any and every attractive guy that offered her sex (which isn't close to reality).

Bismarck and some other guys have been sleeping with Virgins fast, cause most women are not virgin by choice now a days, but do to guys that are like that girl ex

This is true - I've had more virgins than ever before. I think it's because both men and women are becoming much more passive in dating and their lives in general (due to smartphone usage/lack of socialisation).
So many attractive girls are virgins or very sexually inexperienced and they themselves don't know why - they tell me they've made themselves available to several guys that just didn't know they were being offered sex on a platter (most of these cases - the women themselves were very indirect and passive while the men were fairly passive and abit too cautious).

PS Girl Assault Reframe I forgot to add

• A significant minority of girls I.E 10-20% in my experience have or claim to have been assaulted
• This can easily be a sensitive topic. I've navigated it successfully here and in other situations by:
  • Being re-assuring and saying that's sadly not uncommon
  • Reward her opening up to me by saying that's brave of you & I'm glad you're comfortable to sharing that
  • Set frames that her past negative experience shouldn't ruin our upcoming positive one I.E It's also admirable how you've not let that past experience block you from enjoying future beautiful moments
  • If she cries or gets emotional just hold her and show affection, kiss on forehead, bring her close to hug etc etc (this happened with this girl
  • Once you've been the rock that's let her get her emotions out, bring the mood up something like "Why didn't you tell me you were also pretty when you cried??" or in my instance I went more advanced with "I still think our S*x* would be good but wouldn't recommend for beginners, I just intuitively knew she'd laugh & would bring the vibe up

This is NOT the way to reframe any of this. Where did you learn this? Again, it sounds like a salesman handling objections, it's horrifying.

I was genuinelly curious as to how the hell her ex was with her for 9 months, how she was "in love with him" and he had tried to lay her but failed to close. Apparently she said "next time" for the whole time lol.

Koreans have told me this - when they say "Next time" or "Next next time" - it means "Never, politely shutup and stop asking because I'm never going to do (whatever) this way". Next next time = don't ask me next time I see you either (hopefully you'll forget after that). This is common knowledge in Korea.

I doubt a Korean man wouldn't have known that though. Her virginity or this guy existing is starting to sound doubtful now. Or he had the worst, most passive game in the country.

What I think you need to improve moving forward, based on what you wrote above:

1. Write out the dialogue you both used (however you do that is your choice, ideally recording it, transcribing it in writing with Ai and then removing the personal/identifying private info).

2. Your frames need to be alot more pro-active (while still remaining indirect) and repeated in several different ways (if necessary until they're effective in the seduction). They need to be far more sexual in the first seduction and/or first date, even if it's indirect. Repeatedly pro-actively framing sex or reframed, indirectly or otherwise, should be done in different ways in the first interaction and the first date.

3. Alot more leading, longer initial interactions with alot more compliance and escalation. If this is a typical approach for you - I can clearly see why your conversions are very low (as you previously commented). You're getting low or no compliance and no investment from her, along with low escalation (or none) and really not much of anything, other than number-farming.

4. Proposing the date inside the initial seduction/interaction. Why wait until you texted alot to propose the meet? It just seemed weak, scared and passive to me (as it would appear to most normal attractive, in-demand, plenty of male options, non-virgin women).

5. Go for the instadate (and then possibly sex) in the first interaction (when you first meet her) - rather than a Janka five minute number collecting nothing interaction and relying on loading up the texting and dates to do all the seduction heavy lifting and finish whatever you want to do, rather than using the opportunity you have when you've met her and she's in front of you in person. Propose the date in person and collect a number as a last resort.

6. Your frames also seem REACTIVE and passive rather than pro-active - like you're a salesman logically problem solving her by convincing her, rather than being seductive and using frames BEFORE she does. I see alot of that throughout this report.

7. Far too many questions - make statements instead. Ask as few questions as possible, 2 or less (in my opinion) and even then, they should only be for qualifying or to find out her age (to confirm she's an adult).


Hope you've learned something from the above.