Sticking point

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
What’s up guys,

So I have been dealing with this sticking point since forever. I can’t get girls out consistently for nothing.

I always can attract easily enough, get numbers, etc. but when it comes time to go out on a date or to come over it’s like the girl changes and then it doesn’t happen.

All of my success has been with girls that really wanted me and made things easy. I’ve even had girls that I couldn’t see for weeks still have high interest and would come out, chill, and we have sex.

But that’s not consistent enough, and what makes it even more difficult is that I do feel like I’m doing well on the approach because everything feels natural and smooth and the girls are excited. (I think maybe I have to move faster and focus on same day lays)

Like I said, I’ve been dealing with this pretty much all my life. I only lay high interest girls, so I can’t develop any real seduction skills.

I follow the steps in pretty much everything, but for some reason it has never worked, even before this site I would implement being smooth, building attraction, and getting a number to move it to a date fast.

It’s funny when I think about it, I can attract a good amount, get numbers, date agreements, and the ones I do lay, they stay around for years and even come back years later still wanting me.

So to me, I’m pretty decent with everything except getting girls out consistently no matter what form of pick up I use.

Appreciate all advice!!
 

Carousel

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
92
I suggest you describe a typical interaction of yours, or post field reports. Your post is not specific enough on the details to allow a debug of the problem.

Note that people in general have very short attention spans in these days due to smart phones, social media etc. Even pros get flaking due to the fact that there often is something MORE interesting around in some way if you did not make an extremely strong and deep impression.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
I suggest you describe a typical interaction of yours, or post field reports. Your post is not specific enough on the details to allow a debug of the problem.

Note that people in general have very short attention spans in these days due to smart phones, social media etc. Even pros get flaking due to the fact that there often is something MORE interesting around in some way if you did not make an extremely strong and deep impression.
What’s up man!!

So I usually open by asking how their night is going and then we get into conversation from there. They are the ones that are usually asking me the questions then I give them a little information and then I ask them the same questions, but get them to tell me more.

After that I propose the date, get the number, then set it up. Majority of the time just doesn’t work out, it only works out if it’s high attraction on the girl’s end and she’s texting me all the time.

Maybe we found sort of a solution. What would be a more interesting option to these women with such short attentions spans?

What more could I do to make a extremely strong and deep impression?

When I hear that she found someone more interesting, I always assume the guys is trying to take her on an expensive date or try to flaunt money or something.

I don’t offer them anything, but conversation and I know that they are trying to get free things from dates.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
Are you doing this from night game?
Now I mostly do night game. But it’s all game, apps, social, day game when I do it sometimes.

I have tried to move faster for a night lay, but the girl’s are usually with a friend and my friend or friends don’t want theirs, so that doesn’t work out.

I have been going out solo more recently, but not consistently as I should.

Day game for me is very low, last day game girl I can think of she was very compliant and attracted to me, set up the date, texted and all of that, I got to the point where I just invited her to come over, she agreed and then she flaked the next day with no response.

with apps, these girls sound excited, we set up a date, then they flake. I’ve tried low communication and high communication before the date, they flake.


Social circle back in the day was my bread and butter. Got most of my lays from that, but I’m not dealing with that circle anymore.
 

Carousel

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
92
Numbers from night game have been flaky all the time and this is probably worse now at least in Western countries (don't know where you are).

The reason? Lots of girls will agree to give you a number in the heat of the moment, but unless you have some serious rapport or appear very valuable in some other way, they will often flake. I think I will leave it to somebody taking more numbers than me to advice you here. Just know that even the pros have this problem haha.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
Numbers from night game have been flaky all the time and this is probably worse now at least in Western countries (don't know where you are).

The reason? Lots of girls will agree to give you a number in the heat of the moment, but unless you have some serious rapport or appear very valuable in some other way, they will often flake. I think I will leave it to somebody taking more numbers than me to advice you here. Just know that even the pros have this problem haha.
When you say appear valuable, do you mean looking like you have money or something?

I’m in the states, where are you, and what game works for you where you’re at?
 

Carousel

Chieftan
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tribal-elder
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Messages
92
When you say appear valuable, do you mean looking like you have money or something?
Compliance required for a meetup > compliance higher to get a number. You have to provide something more interesting to her than just make her laugh. Can be that you are very attractive in some way, shares an interest of hers, is an authority on something she values, very strong rapport etc. I don't collect that many numbers from night game myself so I won't pretend to know exactly what you should do, however the better fundamentals and verbal game you have, the better you will generally be off.

I don't think about money, no.

I’m in the states, where are you, and what game works for you where you’re at?
Norway, the reason why I ask is that there is a lot of flakiness in the West in general. People have smartphones, social media etc and are constantly bombarded by interesting stuff. So one needs to stand out. This was actually less of an issue before, and in many other places in the world from what I understand.
 

Hue

Chieftan
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Messages
1,228
After that I propose the date, get the number, then set it up. Majority of the time just doesn’t work out, it only works out if it’s high attraction on the girl’s end and she’s texting me all the time.
Good process of proposing date --> get the number --> set it up.

How about your texting? This is a sticking for a lot of people, and took me a long time to develop. I actually looked back at some old texts of mine from a few years back and was laughing at how off-target some of them were.


Carousel is explaining something that's all over. I'm in the West and night game numbers are notoriously flakey (I hardly take them anymore). I even went out the other week and got several numbers + an intense makeout and all of them turned to dust. Luckily, this gave me momentum to where I'm at in the present moment so it's not a complete L, but the flakeyness was as evident as ever.

I think it's a combination of reverse rationalization, a quickly fading memory of a high stimulus / alcohol intertwined environment, and ASD when girls let go of/silence the nostalgia of getting caught up in the moment with you.


Hue
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
511
when i’m on tinder texting a lot i convert more numbers i get from cold approach. the reason is i have practice at text game and it’s real. online dating gives you a lot of practice. regardless, at least here in los angeles, numbers suck. day game or night game i find don’t matter much. if you get enough numbers some chicks will be really down for you. get your text game really good and you’ll get some girls off the fence but don’t ever expect consistent results without high volume. at least where i live. and i have no problem getting women i meet to have sex with me that night. it’s far easier than getting a date from numbers.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
Good process of proposing date --> get the number --> set it up.

How about your texting? This is a sticking for a lot of people, and took me a long time to develop. I actually looked back at some old texts of mine from a few years back and was laughing at how off-target some of them were.


Carousel is explaining something that's all over. I'm in the West and night game numbers are notoriously flakey (I hardly take them anymore). I even went out the other week and got several numbers + an intense makeout and all of them turned to dust. Luckily, this gave me momentum to where I'm at in the present moment so it's not a complete L, but the flakeyness was as evident as ever.

I think it's a combination of reverse rationalization, a quickly fading memory of a high stimulus / alcohol intertwined environment, and ASD when girls let go of/silence the nostalgia of getting caught up in the moment with you.


Hue
Basically I do everything from the site, that’s why this is so frustrating.

My texting game is basically, I text her who I am and to save my number, then I text her like a day or two later and ask when she’s free for the week.

That’s what this site has been saying for the whole time I’ve been on here. I’ve tried having long conversations as well over text and phone and they don’t work at all and seems like a time waste. Only time I engage in texting a lot is when they text me.

Texting a lot feels way to friend zone to me and gets me no where.

So yeah, I have no text game, I just follow what the texting format is on this site and it’s pretty easy to follow because I’m not texting really anything bedsides asking her when she’s free lol.

But if you have different text game, let me know my man I’ll try it.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
when i’m on tinder texting a lot i convert more numbers i get from cold approach. the reason is i have practice at text game and it’s real. online dating gives you a lot of practice. regardless, at least here in los angeles, numbers suck. day game or night game i find don’t matter much. if you get enough numbers some chicks will be really down for you. get your text game really good and you’ll get some girls off the fence but don’t ever expect consistent results without high volume. at least where i live. and i have no problem getting women i meet to have sex with me that night. it’s far easier than getting a date from numbers.
Hey I left you a message on another thread, but I’ll ask here in case you didn’t see it.

When I was on apps before I had many matches, I’ve deleted the apps and restarted and now I have extremely low matches compared to before and my profile is the same.

what could be going on?

And I’m trying to work on my text game, but it’s not consistent, most of these women are not responding to my openers and I’ve used many from compliments, no compliments, asking what they’re looking for, making a comment on something I observed in their profile, etc.

so I can’t practice text game like that.
 

naturalmikey

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Jun 9, 2019
Messages
511
Hey I left you a message on another thread, but I’ll ask here in case you didn’t see it.

When I was on apps before I had many matches, I’ve deleted the apps and restarted and now I have extremely low matches compared to before and my profile is the same.

what could be going on?

And I’m trying to work on my text game, but it’s not consistent, most of these women are not responding to my openers and I’ve used many from compliments, no compliments, asking what they’re looking for, making a comment on something I observed in their profile, etc.

so I can’t practice text game like that.
delete and start over. try creating your profile on a tuesday evening or friday early afternoon. i honestly think the biggest part of being favored by algorithm is getting on at a time when a lot of people see you. i suspect the algorithm views people swiped on the most the most favorably and honestly doesn’t care as much how much your swiped on from a percentage basis. you gotta get your profile to hit early to get seen. use a google voice number too. maybe starting over with a number that’s never been used might help.
 

Hue

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
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Messages
1,228
But if you have different text game, let me know my man I’ll try it.
I think more and more nowadays you need to insert more flavor, style, and engagement over text.

Some of Chase's business-like texting works for him as a high value, very busy, and often traveling individual.

If you show me some of your texts and actually type them out, I can definitely help you from there (=


Hue
 

Teevster

Chieftan
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tribal-elder
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Aug 23, 2013
Messages
221
Location
Paris
Consider that from nightgame you have approx 50% chances of meeting a girl again as a result of taking phone numbers(considering your don't do text game mistakes) from a girl who was:
- Deadly into you that night
- Whom you had rapport with
- Whom you had a connection with

Yupp basically the golden hook is required to have up to 50% chances.... and that's if everything is perfect.

You might as well just shoot a fish in a barrel.

Basically: for night game, you go for one night stands (and then take her number - you will notice that your response will skyrocket AFTER you have fucked her).

That's just how nightgame is done. It was always one night stand based, but now it is more than ever.

Alek
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
I think more and more nowadays you need to insert more flavor, style, and engagement over text.

Some of Chase's business-like texting works for him as a high value, very busy, and often traveling individual.

If you show me some of your texts and actually type them out, I can definitely help you from there (=


Hue
I don’t save my messages, but I’ll give you a few that I can remember lol.

So with every girl from any type of game I propose a date and then get the number, then I tell them to save my number and I do the ask, I will get a confirmation, then they either flake or if they really like me meet up.

So here are text examples from girls from different avenues.

Dating apps:

Many times I’ll match with a chick and give one of these openers, but as of late my matches have went down a lot compared to before, and these are my openers.

I either ask them how it’s going for them on the app, what they’re looking for, compliment; or something I observed from the profile.

Most of the times as of late no reply, before they would talk, but when I tried to dive deeper they would just not respond, so I went straight for asking for a date and still no response.

Can’t think of much to do after that.

Now for conversations from apps.

One girl I actually had a decent convo from the app, but once we got off the app and to the phone she was taking so long to reply and when I asked when she was free, she was gone.

On the app:

Opener, then asked her what she was looking for, she told me, asked when she was free, told me next week and was down, then got her number.

Off the app:

She acted weird.

SZ: Hey this is SZ from ..
Her: What’s up?

Super strange because who answers a text like that after giving the person their number?

SZ: what are you up to?

here I’m trying to see if I can smash tonight.

She gives no response.

So as days go by, she hits me up and I ask what she’s up to and when she’s free, then she’ll take a day to reply, then I said fuck her.

Apps 2:

I’m going to make these 3 short.

1. Got a girl and she was so excited to see me, I called her and built rapport. I didn’t text her much because I had nothing to say, asked when she was free and she told me, set up a date, then she flaked even after her excitement.

2. This girl I was just texting and talked to on the phone once and tried to build rapport from that because I didn’t want to go on a date.

Text were:

SZ: When are you free this week?
Her: blah blah. (Date is set)

Then a few days before the date:

Her: Hi
SZ: Hey what’s up?
Her: Nothing but how are you?
SZ: Good and you?

That was it.

So this was early during work hours so I couldn’t try to chill and just made small talk, didn’t hear from her again despite building rapport on the phone and moving fast.

3. Chick said she wanted to settle down with me.

We talked on the phone and had a good conversation, set up a date, then I text her while she’s working and told her to call me when she’s off so we can set up the date details.


The next ones are going to be short because this’ll get too long lol.

Day game: Got a girls number super quick and smooth, she was smiling so much.

we were texting and talking on the phone, I was trying to build rapport and invite her over when she was free.

told me when she was free and I text her the day of and she didn’t respond.

Club game:

Pretty much get the numbers from girls and try to set up a date soon. They agree and then flake.

So pretty much I don’t do a lot of texting unless they text me, these girls act so attracted in person, so it’s like wtf? When they flake.

So yeah, my process is basically to get the number and then I Just try to get the date without texting or talking much unless I’m trying to have them come right over.

If you had to use something to work with, this is how the majority of my text look.

I build attraction, ask for date, then get the number.

My text are mostly like:

SZ: This is SZ save my number.
Her: Ok :)

Few days later:

SZ: Hey, when would you be free this week?
Her: Gives date
SZ: Ok so we’ll do.... or I’ll tell her I’ll contact her before the day she gave me to set up a location.

Then I hit her up for confirmation and either she’ll say something came up or no reply.

And it makes no sense, what else am I supposed to do? I can’t text these women all day if they aren’t giving me anything to work with, then when they do text me I try to engage and they stop texting.

So I’m thinking I’ll try to build more rapport, then I do a quick phone call, longer if I try to just smash.

I can’t see why this isn’t working.

Any tips you have will be good.
 
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Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
Consider that from nightgame you have approx 50% chances of meeting a girl again as a result of taking phone numbers(considering your don't do text game mistakes) from a girl who was:
- Deadly into you that night
- Whom you had rapport with
- Whom you had a connection with

Yupp basically the golden hook is required to have up to 50% chances.... and that's if everything is perfect.

You might as well just shoot a fish in a barrel.

Basically: for night game, you go for one night stands (and then take her number - you will notice that your response will skyrocket AFTER you have fucked her).

That's just how nightgame is done. It was always one night stand based, but now it is more than ever.

Alek
What about day game and apps? I also wrote down how most of my interactions go as well, I’d appreciate your help.

Also 50% to see her again after getting a number is high af. It doesn’t work like that for me for some reason.
 

Cody Lyans

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
96
You need to learn more tension.

Think of it like boxing
If you are always running away from punches people yawn
Or if you just go in swinging people think you are a knucklehead

Tension is when you enter the strike zone but you are smart and on your toes
Then the audience is on its toes too cuz your strategy isn't one layer deep, it's multifaceted and interesting

So tension is NOT doing the obvious thing
WHILE not giving yourself a safe space to do nothing.

So you develop more tension in your game by removing SAFE BEHAVIORS like habitual number closes and slow set ups during the approach, and you then introduce RISK with the ruleset of NOT doing the obvious.

In other words pursue risk to prove that you are not gonna break when doing risky stuff.

You need to pursue what you fear, and not react retarded while in that pressure position
 

Teevster

Chieftan
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tribal-elder
Joined
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Messages
221
Location
Paris
What about day game and apps? I also wrote down how most of my interactions go as well, I’d appreciate your help.

Also 50% to see her again after getting a number is high af. It doesn’t work like that for me for some reason.
I think you are misreading my message. The 50% is the highest you can get IF you have a perfect hook, a super compliant girl, tons of DEEP rapport..and if she communicates HERSELF a willingness to see you again. This is basically a golden hook. They require perfect game in person when you meet her and some luck. I.e it is rare. I doubt most of your number closes from nightgame are like this. Even pro nightgamers get those very rarely.

And if you do get those golden hooks it is still a bad call to go for the number close instead of just sealing the deal right away through a one night stand. Only exception would be if there is a MAJOR logistical block. Then taking a number is a necessary evil.


For a pro nightgamer... an overall ratio would be 1/10 to maybe 1/5 for very solid numbers. For a noob maybe 1/20-30. All depending on the amount of rapport and the compliance level and the quality of the hook. But the quality of the hook, rapport and compliance leads to a diminishing return of investement. It is not like a twice as good hook, twice as much rapport and twice as much compliance will give you twice as much chance of meeting her again. Sure it increases your chances but not proportionally to what you have invested in it.

However for same night lays... you get more control over the outcome since you are there in person with her with all your tools at your disposal. For number closes It is the time bridge of when she is not around you (in addition to time away from you) that causes flakes.

But for one night stands you do not have this problem. It is not like you will always be in full control of the situation when you are around her as wildcards can occur. That said, you have much more control over the outcome going for same night lays then taking her number.

Bottom line: for nightgame you have to go for same night lays. That's how it is done. Numbers are last resort. You may take numbers in order to have something to play with during the week (but have low expectations) but ultimatly the goal is to get a pull - bang her the same night.

I don't use apps. Why would you?


Daygame has more consistency in regards to number closes but still low if taken from the street quickly after the approach. However number taken after an instant date (could be just moving her to nearby bench and talk to her) are much more legit.

However sometimes you can't instant date for whatever reason and you have to take a quick number right post hook. Thats fine but expect more flakes.

You can also opt for same day lays during daygame.

Hope this helps
 
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Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
596
You need to learn more tension.

Think of it like boxing
If you are always running away from punches people yawn
Or if you just go in swinging people think you are a knucklehead

Tension is when you enter the strike zone but you are smart and on your toes
Then the audience is on its toes too cuz your strategy isn't one layer deep, it's multifaceted and interesting

So tension is NOT doing the obvious thing
WHILE not giving yourself a safe space to do nothing.

So you develop more tension in your game by removing SAFE BEHAVIORS like habitual number closes and slow set ups during the approach, and you then introduce RISK with the ruleset of NOT doing the obvious.

In other words pursue risk to prove that you are not gonna break when doing risky stuff.

You need to pursue what you fear, and not react retarded while in that pressure position
Thanks for the reply, but I don’t fully understand.

Do you think I should be more sexual and give more sexual comments and tell them I want to fuck and forget about a date?

If you do mean to be more aggressive, I was thinking the same thing.
 
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