Stop Worrying So Much About the "Friend Zone"

Colt Williams

Tribal Elder
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Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
33
I've been coaching a number of guys and speaking to a handful of newer gents who constantly say things like

"But Colt...if I build any rapport (esp over text) with her whatsoever, I'll end up in the friend zone."

One thing that all men need to understand cognitively (and will come to understand experientially w/ enough practice) is that outside of women you are related to, all interactions with women are by default a sexual interaction until they are slotted into another category (colleague, gf, etc).

The second factor we all need to impress onto our brains is that women are masters of subtext.

So if you choose to ask a girl to spend one on one time with you, she is going to assume that you are interested in her (unless YOU state otherwise). And, if she's into it, she'll role with it (pun intended). [I once dated a girl by asking her to play backgammon with me. And every time she would head out to spend time with me, her roommate would say "oh...you gonna play backgammon with Colt again? Guess I'll see you tomorrow."]

If she's NOT into it, she will find a subtextual way to communicate that. Some examples:

1. She will start a text with "Hey Friend!....."
2. She will try to reroute you to a group outing "Yeah! A bunch of us are going out to do X...you should come!"
3. Coffee. "Sure! How bout we grab coffee! (Coffee is the antithesis of romance...unless you're outside of the US)"

So as long as you're focusing on trying to get her to see you again in-person, there's nothing wrong with a little rapport building. Ask about her day, make an inside joke, etc. Just don't let it carry on too long before you try to get her on a date. Rapport-building is essential to all human relationships. Also, you don't need to be overtly sexual if you haven't yet had a sexual encounter with her! This is a mistake too many newer guys make. They think, "Unless I make a remark about her playing with my pool cues, she's not going to get that I'm interested."

They get it, trust me ;-). If she doesn't try to re-route you to a "friend" activiti, and you stay friendly, confident and flirtatious, you won't end up in the friend zone. And in fact, you will be able to give her the ever-essential plausible deniability. "Oh...he just wants to get to know me!"

Yes. Yes you do.
 

Starboy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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485
If you ask girls for coffee dates is it ok to go to chain coffee places like dunkin donuts, or starbucks? Or will she not be impressed and think the idea of going to such place is lame? When it comes to places to take females out on a date I always think of a bar because it's the most common place to have a date and most girls seem to drink alcohol.
 

Colt Williams

Tribal Elder
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Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
33
I wouldn't go on a date to Starbucks, etc. 9/10 times it's not an actual date. Do a bar. Go to a cool spot that has alcohol. Hell, even go to the zoo. But yes, some social lubricant that also builds in conversation opportunities is the way to go
 

Zanardi

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Mar 11, 2018
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96
Location
Ploiesti, Romania
If you ask girls for coffee dates is it ok to go to chain coffee places like dunkin donuts, or starbucks? Or will she not be impressed and think the idea of going to such place is lame? When it comes to places to take females out on a date I always think of a bar because it's the most common place to have a date and most girls seem to drink alcohol.

From my experience, it doesn't matter much where you take them, because they care more about being with you. With a girl I am seeing (and will soon be dating) at our first meeting we went to a Starbucks then to her house. At our second meeting we took a stroll in her neighborhood.
 

Witcher

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Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
300
If you ask girls for coffee dates is it ok to go to chain coffee places like dunkin donuts, or starbucks? Or will she not be impressed and think the idea of going to such a place is lame? When it comes to places to take females out on a date I always think of a bar because it's the most commonplace to have a date and most girls seem to drink alcohol.

I had this issue before since I don't drink alcohol and I like to have a good intimate conversation on dates. My go-to date couldn't be a bar. So I either go for Cofee Date or Ice Cream. The best way for not looking lame here would be in the framing of the outing:
1. I invite girls for Hot Chocolate or Ice Cream(depending on the season) since these two have a little bit of a"romantic flavor" to them.
2.If the "Starbuck" venue really bothers you and I can feel you since some girls maybe a little bit offended and start to auto-reject.They may think that you may see them as "just friends" since it's not the most romantic place. You can do two things, one is to go to the coffee shop buy it there then go to another venue like a park or the beach. A second one is to go to a Coffee shop but not Starbucks chooses another franchise or like Seppuku does with an upper version of it.

Actually I modeled my first Date template from the Tool, an old member here on GirlsChase who use Starbucks at its primary date spot you can find the whole process here: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/first-date-tactics-and-logistics.3171/

That was my 2 cents!
 

Witcher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Joined
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Messages
300
I've been coaching a number of guys and speaking to a handful of newer gents who constantly say things like

"But Colt...if I build any rapport (esp over text) with her whatsoever, I'll end up in the friend zone."

One thing that all men need to understand cognitively (and will come to understand experientially w/ enough practice) is that outside of women you are related to, all interactions with women are by default a sexual interaction until they are slotted into another category (colleague, gf, etc).

The second factor we all need to impress onto our brains is that women are masters of subtext.

So if you choose to ask a girl to spend one on one time with you, she is going to assume that you are interested in her (unless YOU state otherwise). And, if she's into it, she'll role with it (pun intended). [I once dated a girl by asking her to play backgammon with me. And every time she would head out to spend time with me, her roommate would say "oh...you gonna play backgammon with Colt again? Guess I'll see you tomorrow."]

If she's NOT into it, she will find a subtextual way to communicate that. Some examples:

1. She will start a text with "Hey Friend!....."
2. She will try to reroute you to a group outing "Yeah! A bunch of us are going out to do X...you should come!"
3. Coffee. "Sure! How bout we grab coffee! (Coffee is the antithesis of romance...unless you're outside of the US)"

So as long as you're focusing on trying to get her to see you again in-person, there's nothing wrong with a little rapport building. Ask about her day, make an inside joke, etc. Just don't let it carry on too long before you try to get her on a date. Rapport-building is essential to all human relationships. Also, you don't need to be overtly sexual if you haven't yet had a sexual encounter with her! This is a mistake too many newer guys make. They think, "Unless I make a remark about her playing with my pool cues, she's not going to get that I'm interested."

They get it, trust me ;-). If she doesn't try to re-route you to a "friend" activiti, and you stay friendly, confident and flirtatious, you won't end up in the friend zone. And in fact, you will be able to give her the ever-essential plausible deniability. "Oh...he just wants to get to know me!"

Yes. Yes you do.

This post came at the right time since I'm currently working to better my process of getting girls from my Social Circle and extended Social Circle.

And Yeah It's an old concept of the community that men put ourselves in the Friend Zone and not the opposite. Other coaches like 60 Years of Challenge go as far as saying that the sexual tension between men and women is naturally here and what we should focus on is on not destroying it rather than trying to "create it".

I couldn't understand all of this before but after improving my fundamentals and mindsets around women and dating something changed with the girls around me. Now I still have a lot of female "friends" but not girls I'm in the friend zone with.

As I said, in the beginning, I'm working on a better process to get these girls (4 Dates so far with it). By reading chase article I understood that in order to get these girls I have to Unlock the "Meeting One on One" level. Ido this currently in the following way:
  • If the girls seem to like me already. As she messages me first on social media, is very reactive in the chat that initiates or seems like Like/Comments my posts. I will just invite her directly to date using your infamous "Silly Tinder Line"
  • If she refuses a date or doesn't seem interested enough to accept one. I will initiate a conversation with her, how I do it is still clumsy and usually depend on the situation. Like something reminds me about her text, or she reacts to my story or I react to hers. Then after some good back and forth I would tell her that Tomorrow or one of these days I will be around her area (school or work) and that I would love to see her. I can then get a One to One Informational Date which I will use to build some attraction and comfort that will get her to accept another true date.

For running the date nothing different than the one from cold approach. However, I just make sure that It's in a place where other people from our circle will not see us.

However, I still have 2 Big steaking points wi this process and would love your comments about them:
  • Since my logistics kinda sucks I will most likely not be able to pull on the first date. So I usually prefer to kiss at the end of the date to unlock that level with her and to clearly show her that I have a sexual interest in her.

  • How to have a more consistent process to get the girl out? Right now it's a very opportunistic one.

Comments, Suggestions?
 

Colt Williams

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
33
And Yeah It's an old concept of the community that men put ourselves in the Friend Zone and not the opposite. Other coaches like 60 Years of Challenge go as far as saying that the sexual tension between men and women is naturally here and what we should focus on is on not destroying it rather than trying to "create it".

Witcher, this is 100% true. There are millennia of biology built into us to want to get sexual with one another. And once you become advanced, you will feel it with almost *every* woman. It doesn't matter whom. Your boss. Your professors. Your grocer. It's just an energy that exists. And most of the time you won't act on it, but sometimes you will ;-).

For running the date nothing different than the one from cold approach. However, I just make sure that It's in a place where other people from our circle will not see us.

However, I still have 2 Big steaking points wi this process and would love your comments about them:
  • Since my logistics kinda sucks I will most likely not be able to pull on the first date. So I usually prefer to kiss at the end of the date to unlock that level with her and to clearly show her that I have a sexual interest in her.

  • How to have a more consistent process to get the girl out? Right now it's a very opportunistic one.

Comments, Suggestions?

Good instinct on doing the meetups away from social circle. In terms of bad logistics, I would get creative. I can't tell you how many girls I've hooked up with in a park, field, department store, etc. Again, the key is to not break the sexual tension. So if you're out with her, ask her to continue the date on a walk, and then go to a park (or other secluded area). Tell her you want to look at the stars. Tell her you want to sit down. Tell her whatever, just lead. And then as you're hanging out (preferably after dark), bring your voice down to a quieter level. Make her feel the stillness of the moment.

Then just make a move. If she's into it, she'll go with it. And you can have all kinds of fun :). You may not go all the way, but you can do some really fun stuff! If she's not into it, then fine, you no longer have to expend your precious time. Where do you usually go for these dates?

Hope that helps!

P.s. re: "infamous Tinder Line" hahaha!
 
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