struggling with flirting, how do you create man to woman frame?

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@ Will V
This is the video I mentioned , very interesting

also OP, Will and @Skills check out old RJ in action ‘in the field’ with his speed seduction vocals and patterning .. old RJ defs got laid with his stuff imo, no doubts.

also OP , there’s also an old video of Scotty GLL versus an MM-style PUA guy doing a ‘pickup challenge competition’ .. it was on a bodybuilding YT channel. I’ll see if I can track down and post it up , as it’s AWESOME.

 

[Skills]

also OP , there’s also an old video of Scotty GLL versus an MM-style PUA guy doing a ‘pickup challenge competition’ .. it was on a bodybuilding YT channel. I’ll see if I can track down and post it up , as it’s AWESOME.

It is on my channel:

^ this was when i was new to the community...

 

[Arnav]

You want your verbal and nonverbal communication to contain some kind of sexual intent. My favorites:

- Prolonged eye contact
- Wandering eyes (to her lips, ears, neck, etc)
- Moving in and out of her personal space, e.g. by rocking your hips
- Touch
- Tone (monotonous, low, reverberating tone)
- Giving her commands (.e.g come here, move over, give me your hand, tell me xyz)

These are all things that have an analogy in the act of sex, in fact they are the precursor to sex.

When you give her subtle signals that things are acquiring sexual momentum, that the interaction is already sexual, she starts to feel aroused and all her verbal and nonverbal responses inevitably acquire a sexual undertone as well.

You want your verbal and nonverbal communication to contain some kind of sexual intent. My favorites:

- Prolonged eye contact
- Wandering eyes (to her lips, ears, neck, etc)
- Moving in and out of her personal space, e.g. by rocking your hips
- Touch
- Tone (monotonous, low, reverberating tone)
- Giving her commands (.e.g come here, move over, give me your hand, tell me xyz)

These are all things that have an analogy in the act of sex, in fact they are the precursor to sex.

When you give her subtle signals that things are acquiring sexual momentum, that the interaction is already sexual, she starts to feel aroused and all her verbal and nonverbal responses inevitably acquire a sexual undertone as well.

So how would you use these in daygame cold approaches, my convs a safe, platonic like these

Me: hey I just saw you passing by and I think your dress looks amazing
She: thanks
Me: yeah love those shades of blue, you stabd out in this dull winter color pallete most people wear
She: thanks
Me: so it seems like you're going to classs or something like that,
She: oh no I work nearby
Me: I see , what do you do?
She: I work as an HR for a software firm
Me: cool, so how is it working over there. You like it
She: yeah its's good.
Me: okay, and what else intrests you besides work
She: not much just gym, going out with friends. (Loosing interest, looks bored)
Me: okay anyways , it was nice meeting you.

So to turn this conv flirty, just slow down when I am asking her questions

Like: so what do you when you're not woorkingg?? (prolonged eye contact)

 

[Arnav]

Yeah all the non verbal moves as I outlined for sure.

for the verbals maybe study Ross Jeffries first course . His voice training.
You need to get some more colour tones in your voice. So it has some suggestive qualities in it when you speak to signal ‘intent’ .

that way , you can use almost ANY normal bits of conversation - and make them sound like an ambiguous come-on.

just practice with “Hey ,how are you?” And simple statements /questions.

it’s mastering your voice and tonalities moreso..

I go with flattery based on what unseen that attracts me. So I may say “ that’s a nice top, I like the pocodots at the front “!

So it’s the way I say it , plus the fact I’m drawing attention to the pattern, which just so happens to be located all around her cleavage and all over her Big Tits , which I am observing. So I’m signalling to her indirectly - “ I like your big tits “ .. get it?

So in short - innuendo .
Maybe also google definition of ‘innuendo’.
Everything is indirect , hinted, double talk.

That's a nice top, I like the pocodots at the front"!

Hahah, that was great . Love this one! I guess i gotta expose myself to more inuendos to get a feel for it.

As a beginner, how should someone practice and improve verbal flirting Though?

If I’m going on a date, should I enter with a deliberate intention to use innuendos or chase frames, actively scanning the conversation for moments to introduce them?

Because it feels very hard to come up with them on the spot when you are actiely listening to what she is saying, giving her feedback and asking follow up questions.

Looking back , what would you say is the right approach to practice this.

 

[AJAK]

Yeah, this has been a common occurence for me too, if I don't do very direct and sexual from the get go then the interaction becomes very platonic and i'm not sure if the girl is sexually interested if there wasnt an ioi beforehand.

You should try to be more direct and sexual as Scotty recommends in this video. Be in a sexual state. After giving the compliment or observation, ask for her name and once she tells you her name extend your hand and mentions yours, when you shake hands don't let go of her hand. If she doesn't pull her hand away then its a good sign and you should start escalating rapidly.

However, I do believe this style is more suited to bars and clubs (nightlife) than daygame. YOur fundamentals also need to be on point.

 

[Will_V]

@Arnav this is not a conversation that's going to make her think about you later that night.

Let's see:

Me: hey I just saw you passing by and I think your dress looks amazing
She: thanks
Me: yeah love those shades of blue, you stabd out in this dull winter color pallete most people wear

Here is a good opportunity to give her a slow admiring look up and down. Ostensibly you are looking at her dress, but ya know what's underneath?

Whenever I look at a girl's body (which I often do) I look back at her in the eye and hold her gaze with a smile for a couple of seconds, to make sure she knows that I know that she knows, and I'm not sorry.

She: thanks
Me: so it seems like you're going to classs or something like that,
She: oh no I work nearby

You can make a comment like:

"You're going to work looking like that? I wonder what you look like when you're really trying". As always with a smile and a steady gaze. It's a pretty strong compliment, but with a flippant tone and a slow smile you can make it a sexy one.

Me: I see , what do you do?
She: I work as an HR for a software firm
Me: cool, so how is it working over there. You like it
She: yeah its's good.

So what? Nobody cares, neither do you.

I'd say something like "oh so are you a nerd as well or you just like being around nerds?"

Always steering back to the golden thrust: "What sort of girl are you really?"

Me: okay, and what else intrests you besides work

I like to say "What do you like to do when you're not working, netflix doesn't count".

You can for example do it like this:

"What do you like to do when you're not working?" <tap her arm, rock your body toward her> "netflix doesn't count!"

She: not much just gym, going out with friends. (Loosing interest, looks bored)

Here you need to keep pushing.

"Ah are you one of those gym bunnies?" can let your eyes drift a little here.
"You mean clubbing or are you a quiet dinner sort of girl?"

Holding eye contact and pausing before responding is also a very strong but subtle sexual signal.

e.g.

Her: "I'd rather a quiet dinner haha"
You: <pause a second, hold eye contact, make her heart speed up a bit> "Ok, I like that!"

Me: okay anyways , it was nice meeting you.

No wonder you (and her) felt like bailing that was just pure polite conversation, the exact thing that a seducer offers her to avoid.

So to turn this conv flirty, just slow down when I am asking her questions

Like: so what do you when you're not woorkingg?? (prolonged eye contact)

It's more than just that. It's about having the conversation you want to have. She doesn't have to play ball, but while she's there, you're calling the shots. You're painting things the way you want to paint them - with a sexual tint. And if she wants to stay, she's accepting that.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Hahah, that was great . Love this one! I guess i gotta expose myself to more inuendos to get a feel for it.

As a beginner, how should someone practice and improve verbal flirting Though?

If I’m going on a date, should I enter with a deliberate intention to use innuendos or chase frames, actively scanning the conversation for moments to introduce them?

Because it feels very hard to come up with them on the spot when you are actiely listening to what she is saying, giving her feedback and asking follow up questions.

Looking back , what would you say is the right approach to practice this.

Thanks.
Honestly, imo .. guys need to start w practice in bars and clubs and build skills there firstly. As these are the environments where this behaviour is expected and set up for. (That’s why bars and clubs exist really ).

THEN take it to the streets . After he has gotten results , a good feel and ‘ the knack’ for picking up. Otherwise , i just wouldnt advise it for many reasons. The main one being that getting rejected over and over will definitely take a toll on your psyche and confidence …whatever anyone else here would say opposing that.
Its inescapable.

Daytime or street seduction is harder imo. There’s more elements and constraints to it . More awareness of a womans world and what sexy scanarios she may be open to.

And by ‘daytime seduction ‘, my definition is going for a Same Day Lay, Or a lay on the day 2 date within a short timeframe of meeting her.

I’m pretty intentful and only take the number if it’s really on and there’s an obstacle to an SDL, and to setup a day 2 asap. The longer the gap, the more her interest will wane.

My 2 cents.

Re you example..honestly, take all of that, crush it up and bin it. Go back to the blank drawing board and start with your intent and objective.
Write that at the top of the board.
Ie

Q: Why are you approaching this women?

A: to charm your way into her pants .into sleeping with you. To get your d1ck wet. To take her on a mini -romance that leads to sex .

then lookup the dictionary definitions of “Charm/Charming” and “Seduction”.
write these down below the above .

sketch that all out on a notepad or whiteboard firstly. To understand the Frame of the interaction you will both be having.

bit different , but that’s how I’d teach it if I was a coach.

-James

 

[AJAK]

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I like Scotty. But that chick has a big ole’ honker on her face….

 

[Arnav]

@Arnav this is not a conversation that's going to make her think about you later that night.

Let's see:



Here is a good opportunity to give her a slow admiring look up and down. Ostensibly you are looking at her dress, but ya know what's underneath?

Whenever I look at a girl's body (which I often do) I look back at her in the eye and hold her gaze with a smile for a couple of seconds, to make sure she knows that I know that she knows, and I'm not sorry.



You can make a comment like:

"You're going to work looking like that? I wonder what you look like when you're really trying". As always with a smile and a steady gaze. It's a pretty strong compliment, but with a flippant tone and a slow smile you can make it a sexy one.



So what? Nobody cares, neither do you.

I'd say something like "oh so are you a nerd as well or you just like being around nerds?"

Always steering back to the golden thrust: "What sort of girl are you really?"



I like to say "What do you like to do when you're not working, netflix doesn't count".

You can for example do it like this:

"What do you like to do when you're not working?" <tap her arm, rock your body toward her> "netflix doesn't count!"



Here you need to keep pushing.

"Ah are you one of those gym bunnies?" can let your eyes drift a little here.
"You mean clubbing or are you a quiet dinner sort of girl?"

Holding eye contact and pausing before responding is also a very strong but subtle sexual signal.

e.g.

Her: "I'd rather a quiet dinner haha"
You: <pause a second, hold eye contact, make her heart speed up a bit> "Ok, I like that!"



No wonder you (and her) felt like bailing that was just pure polite conversation, the exact thing that a seducer offers her to avoid.



It's more than just that. It's about having the conversation you want to have. She doesn't have to play ball, but while she's there, you're calling the shots. You're painting things the way you want to paint them - with a sexual tint. And if she wants to stay, she's accepting that.

Ahhh okay, thats a day and night difference in the interactions, yours seems so lively.

This is sort of the questions flow I have in the back of my mind:

1. Ask her why she is here, or where she is going.
2. Is she working or college student
(Follow up with what she works in or studies and if she likes that)
3. What she likes doing in her free time
4. Where she went to vacation last, has travelled around the city.
5. What kind if movies she likes.

do you use a similar kind of question flow, and its just about using more colorfull language and intresting phrasing to these, or would you just tear this and replace it with a diff flow.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@Arnav
This is a good video to study.
I’ve been on a lot of Hinge dates recently , experimenting w stuff and tryna practice more of this masculine polarity with women.

in essence to me , it’s working with the tension that exists between the sexes .
And strengthening and focusing that tension through leaning into more masculine traits and energy vs her feminine.

so like Scotty does in the video ;

- when standing I’m grounding myself , holding my posture more masculine posed and more ‘flexed’ (shoulders widened, chest out also) vs her feminine posture . hand flapping and general moving around more.

- moving my voice down into chest voice as much as possible and keeping in mind vocal clarity and tonalities

- I break the touch barrier early when standing and keep up the touching,

Eg every other time I look away from her to point out something, I touch her on the upper arm or on the waist.

Sometimes lean in under the guise of ‘mishearing’ her (it’s usually too loud in the environment anyway so that helps)

If we sit opposite , sometimes I’ll mimic her teasingly in convo , make her laugh and also touch her on the leg above the knee, and hold my hand there for a few seconds.in a sexy fashion.

(So it’s a progressive thing of getting her used to /comfortable w me being a handsy /touchy feely guy and also continually signalling interest.)

- also, and Importantly for me, I’m working a lot on my eye contact. This is pretty crucial re signalling , getting into a zone of a longish stare deep into her eyes when talking and when listening to her . I’m rusty w this but getting better now.

So…. As you can see , the chat is above the surface, and can be various topics , and some interview mode , but signalling happens in body language and behaviours.
So we are having another conversation in parallel , underneath the chat.

Hope that’s of use. James

 

[Arnav]

@Arnav
This is a good video to study.
I’ve been on a lot of Hinge dates recently , experimenting w stuff and tryna practice more of this masculine polarity with women.

in essence to me , it’s working with the tension that exists between the sexes .
And strengthening and focusing that tension through leaning into more masculine traits and energy vs her feminine.

so like Scotty does in the video ;

- when standing I’m grounding myself , holding my posture more masculine posed and more ‘flexed’ (shoulders widened, chest out also) vs her feminine posture . hand flapping and general moving around more.

- moving my voice down into chest voice as much as possible and keeping in mind vocal clarity and tonalities

- I break the touch barrier early when standing and keep up the touching,

Eg every other time I look away from her to point out something, I touch her on the upper arm or on the waist.

Sometimes lean in under the guise of ‘mishearing’ her (it’s usually too loud in the environment anyway so that helps)

If we sit opposite , sometimes I’ll mimic her teasingly in convo , make her laugh and also touch her on the leg above the knee, and hold my hand there for a few seconds.in a sexy fashion.

(So it’s a progressive thing of getting her used to /comfortable w me being a handsy /touchy feely guy and also continually signalling interest.)

- also, and Importantly for me, I’m working a lot on my eye contact. This is pretty crucial re signalling , getting into a zone of a longish stare deep into her eyes when talking and when listening to her . I’m rusty w this but getting better now.

So…. As you can see , the chat is above the surface, and can be various topics , and some interview mode , but signalling happens in body language and behaviours.
So we are having another conversation in parallel , underneath the chat.

Hope that’s of use. James

Yeah it's much clearer to me now, thanks for the detailed answer.

But what do you think james transitions someome pyschologically from hesitancy and fear of creeping the girl out with sexualizing the interaction with bold moves like-
1. Looking the girl up and down as you complimemt her and then giving strong eye contact + seductive smile.

If I look back at the pyschological transition of approach anxiety to complete comfort it was

Basically experiencing the bad outcomes only go as far as the girl giving you an irritated look or ignoring you and the may positive approach experiences building up your confidence.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Russell Brand the Dandy /coquette flirt.
I like doing this style also and prob prefer it tbh . more fun for me.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Yeah it's much clearer to me now, thanks for the detailed answer.

But what do you think james transitions someome pyschologically from hesitancy and fear of creeping the girl out with sexualizing the interaction with bold moves like-
1. Looking the girl up and down as you complimemt her and then giving strong eye contact + seductive smile.

If I look back at the pyschological transition of approach anxiety to complete comfort it was

Basically experiencing the bad outcomes only go as far as the girl giving you an irritated look or ignoring you and the may positive approach experiences building up your confidence.

Well , that’s why suggested going back to the drawing board. And the #1 question of -‘why are you approaching this woman?’

she’ll have to get the idea and signal the approach is sexual.
Otherwise shell just get confused and bored no?

you are going to have to enter the zone of ‘risking creepy /sleazy’ to get the feel for it,

As I also said tho - importantly - practice in bars and clubs firstly. Where this behaviour is expected and tolerated more.

day time on the street has to be toned down a bit and subtler, indirect. Theres likely other people around , watching and listening . And Yknow.. laws around harassment etc

 

[Will_V]

Ahhh okay, thats a day and night difference in the interactions, yours seems so lively.

This is sort of the questions flow I have in the back of my mind:

1. Ask her why she is here, or where she is going.
2. Is she working or college student
(Follow up with what she works in or studies and if she likes that)
3. What she likes doing in her free time
4. Where she went to vacation last, has travelled around the city.
5. What kind if movies she likes.

do you use a similar kind of question flow, and its just about using more colorfull language and intresting phrasing to these, or would you just tear this and replace it with a diff flow.

I don't use an exact series of questions but everything in my mind ties back to the question of "what sort of girl are you?". I'm not interested in chitchat I want to know her.

A typical thing might be like:

1. Ask her what she's up to (usually can tell from the answer if she's a student/working, but if not I might ask directly)
2. Ask her why she likes her job/chose her field of study
3. Make a comment on her personality based on her response, e.g.
<she's studying accounting> "oh you're a numbers girl, can you do like math in your head"
<she's a lawyer> "Are you like a defense lawyer or do you prosecute people?"
<she's studying journalism> "oh so you like giving people the latest news do you"
nonsense like that, get her talking about herself more.
4. Continue with a bit of back and forth like this.

5. Ask her what she likes to do when she's not working/studying.
6. Again, comment on her personality based on her response, e.g.
<she likes reading> "I bet you like to curl up on the sofa on a friday night with a book while your friends are out wondering like "where's HB?""
<she likes hiking> "Yeah it feels good to just get lost in nature and forget about civilization and the concrete jungle"
<she likes going out> "Yeah you look like trouble on a friday night, you like clubbing or just a quiet bar?" continue from there.
Again, gets her talking about herself, showing me who she is in her downtime. Tell her about myself too.

7. At some point I'll qualify her, tell her what I like about her, relate a bit to create commonality. Talk some more, wrap it up, seed the date and go for the number.

At the end of it she'll feel like I know her more than even a lot of her acquaintances do (which I mean I probably do!). And I'll of course sprinkle in a little bit of sexy nonverbals like touch, strong eye contact, etc.

That's about as rigid as I can lay it out, I'm not a canned game type of guy I like to just dive in with a basic map, and just make sure I steer things generally in the right direction while hitting the significant points of the interaction.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

@Arnav ill tack on something to the above reply #34 which is important.

both Scotty and Russell Brand has a “Shtick’ they use as an excuse when approaching/interacting and flirting. A Shtick is an “excuse” or ‘guise’ under which to approach.

for Scotty he’s doing a ‘street interview ‘ asfaik
For Russell Brand it’s moreso “ it’s your fault, your Beauty inspires me / I can’t help muself’

so that’s very different than your example approach,

Scotty has a guise.
Russell Brand has an Over The Top shtick he does as his excuse .ir he does it indirectly using ‘your hands must be cold - let me warm them up’ etc etc little cover stories /excuses.
This is my approach to it also, playing dumb asking for directions to somewhere obvious right behind me .. or playing “The Mayor “ of the street , or playing ‘The security guard ‘ in a bar etc etc as it comes to me doing Improv.

 

[Arnav]

@Arnav ill tack on something to the above reply #34 which is important.

both Scotty and Russell Brand has a “Shtick’ they use as an excuse when approaching/interacting and flirting. A Shtick is an “excuse” or ‘guise’ under which to approach.

for Scotty he’s doing a ‘street interview ‘ asfaik
For Russell Brand it’s moreso “ it’s your fault, your Beauty inspires me / I can’t help muself’

so that’s very different than your example approach,

Scotty has a guise.
Russell Brand has an Over The Top shtick he does as his excuse .ir he does it indirectly using ‘your hands must be cold - let me warm them up’ etc etc little cover stories /excuses.
This is my approach to it also, playing dumb asking for directions to somewhere obvious right behind me .. or playing “The Mayor “ of the street , or playing ‘The security guard ‘ in a bar etc etc as it comes to me doing Improv.

A shtick, yeah that seems very intresting. Flirting through a narrative or story.

Russel brand seems pretty good at it, I also like craig fegurson he also uses a shtick of helplessly being attracted by his talkshow's beautifull guests . It seems like a pretty effective tactic.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

A shtick, yeah that seems very intresting. Flirting through a narrative or story.

Russel brand seems pretty good at it, I also like craig fegurson he also uses a shtick of helplessly being attracted by his talkshow's beautifull guests . It seems like a pretty effective tactic.

Absolutely.
This kinda Game of OTT flirting -“your amazing looks are just having this effect on me, I can’t control myself around such beauty/ it’s *your* fault “ is very very effective imo and ime.

cos women LOVE flattery and to be an object of desire. Flatters their ego big time.

in general. It’s my go-to style of flirt.

 

[AJAK]

This is a good video for you too

 

[famineofcrows]

This is a good video for you too

jabba ended up going full on sex tourist/'pay for play' in Thailand once his good looks faded and his game stopped working. Shame as he spoke some sense from time to time.