I disagree i know plenty of guys with poor body language that get laid...
Good looking guys a lot of them lack reps, a lot of them are entitled and lazy (with effort).... and again as i said they also have low value behaviors, and some have aa....
IMO it's about what your body communicates about how you see yourself. I've never seen a guy with body language that communicates low self esteem, or body language that's stiff/inhibited, who's done well with women. Every guy I've seen who's done exceptionally well has body language that's at least expressive and fluid.
Respectfully Skills, Will is correct here:
I've never seen a natural seducer who didn't have top body language passively, and more importantly great body language when under pressure. They also need to actually approach aswell, but the great body language is a crucial part of being a natural.
It's relaxed, fluid, lacking in tension and is unreactive - even under pressure or in a tense situation.
Any other guy that I know (non-naturals) that does well seducing women has very good body language (perhaps not the best, but very good calm fluid body language).
The only people I've seen do well with average body language are extremely good looking men, but they didn't do better than guys with better body language around them (who are less attractive).
I think good looking men's non-exceptional body language is what stops them approaching and doing well with women or is simply a result of not approaching (the chicken or the egg).
When I go to a club, and I want to see who my (potential) competition is, I look for:
1. Who has the best body language (and are they approaching)?
2. Who is physically good looking (without good body langauge) and are they approaching?
3. Who are men (and women) positioning their body towards? Are they one of the people above or do they have something else these people want?
That's it. You don't need to know who the men of status are or who has what or wearing what - it's those factors which you can see fairly quickly in any venue to see what the landscape will be.
This is why women in nighttime venues see you and notice you long before you've approached her - she's seen your body language and how people respond to you and how your body language responds to them and has already assessed your social value from this.
Women are scanning these venues for the above, and much more, constantly in clubs and even at work, school, events, etc.
When I see any group of men now, I can pick out the one who is the leader, who's been successful seducing women (not usually the same guy) - it's very clear to me now from a small amount of observation.
The problem is that whenever it goes mainstream, it becomes this "magic pill" that everyone flocks to thinking it will magically get them automatic results.
But, since most guys do not put the energy into understanding whatever it is and are looking for a quick fix, it doesn't work, and the masses of men get very frustrated with it and long for a solution.
I think this has happened to seduction, even here, where guys forget what's useful and important in seduction because it becomes less spoken about or is dismissed because it's not being said anymore.
I've been looking through the old archives of masf and other seduction forums and there's so much value in what those guys were saying, that nobody talks about anymore in the seduction industry. Those guys figured out alot about seduction and women that solves alot of seduction issues that guys are even having on this forum.
I spent forever trying to figure out how these guys started thinking like this... then realized they were all dating app rejects who didn't approach women in real life and had tried dating apps and flamed out... then concluded that the reason why was because "Chad's getting all the girls, leaving none for the rest of us."
"Looksmaxxing" is purely motivated by men doing poorly in dating apps and deciding to (try to) get extremely good looking, rather than upskill themselves, fix their body language and cold approach.
There's another user on here, who is clearly black pill, who's constant reframe is "only good looking men do well with women" - it's dead giveaway that they never cold approach and haven't in a long time and solely rely on dating apps to meet women, no matter how much they protest that they approach.
"Neediness management" is right at the top imo, I believe it all comes back to frame control as Mystery pointed out, whatever weakens frame is just bad. The worst would be:
- Neediness
- Incongruence
- Inhibition
- Reactiveness
I've not seen a guy do well with women whose body language communicates these. I've seen guys who are soft looking, a bit hunched maybe, definitely not 'alpha' looking, but their body language still expresses a very self-confident/self-absorbed, expressive, uninhibited, non-reactive frame.
Exactly. I think
@Skills - you thought we meant "good posture" by good body language, that's not the case. It's relaxed, calm, fluid, un-reactive body language (especially under tension filled situations).
yeah all of that is good "attractive behaviors" subcommunications that are important, i do still think hygiene is tops.... But my point is body language is important (fundamentals) but to say the MOST important, is a bit of overhyped, is my point...
I see hygiene as just another sensory factor in body language - a man's smell communicates alot of information to people around him, including health and testosterone levels (to women) in a passive way, whether people are conscious of it or not.
So, this is just 'body language by smell' essentially.
But again body language is important and part of fundamentals, and you need to maximaze body language, but is not the "main factor" is my point.... Maybe i get away with it cause of dancing, but my body language is not the best cause my hip socket is misplaced (due to martial arts) so i have a leg slightly longer than other (you can't really tell) but makes me wabble at times...
I think dance is as an
active form of body language, Aaron Sleazy did the same and I use it in clubs aswell.
Women like men who dance well because it's an active form of body language.
Women say that dancing is about how good he is in bed, this is a lie. Women won't be logically aware that they're noticing great body language through dancing, which leads them to being attracted to his fluid relaxed movements. That doesn't register consciously with women, but they feel it.
Women seeing us interacting with other people and women in clubs and our body language in response to those people = Another Active form of Body language that people observe (like dancing).
I think women know they get a better sense of a man when they see his "Active forms of body language" rather than only his passive forms of body language (seeing a man only walking or standing by himself).
I think women see men with great body language but reserve their judgement of him and his value until they see a consistant active form of his body language as a baseline.
I think actors, in many ways,
perform an active form of body language which they use to gain status. I suspect it's why so many former theatre kids and former trained actors become so powerful outside the entertainment industry later in life.
The point is: relaxed body language is a huge rate-limiter and determination of success in seduction. Many men have forgotten this because women aren't actually seeing their body language because they're only seeing their photos on dating profiles.
Men don't understand this for the same reason.
Many women I've met instinctively understand this and have met good looking men from apps and realised how awkward or weird these men are in person, because this is her first time observing his body language (on the first date from the app).
