Long-Term The Poly vs Mono argument...again

[mirror]

From what I've experienced it's always been a miserable experience for her (your main) if she's emotionally invested, even if she says it's fine, and that misery will bleed over on me. As for not letting her know, I'm too lazy for secrets they drain me out. I can't think of anything more mentally exhausting than lying and filtering what I say.

Mr Variety

Well on

Good for you it has worked out for you, even though I can't resonate at all. I just don't see how millions of years of evolution carving women into being intrinsically jealous is overpowered by "frame control." Maybe I'm just extrapolating the type of women I date and relationships I create into laws of biology. I've seen it apparently work for some relationship but hey there's a lot of closets and a lot of skeletons Either way if it has worked out for you that's interesting.

Mr Variety

There are different genes at men and women. Some work and others dont.

 

[POB]

I've seen it apparently work for some relationship but hey there's a lot of closets and a lot of skeletons

There are no skeletons.
If she is main, she is aware about almost everything I'm doing, and vice-versa.
That's why you have "the talk".
No big secrets, or else it's back to FB.

My guess: you are still operating under the frame of a traditional relationship model.
A healthy open does not work like that...you treat her as your true equal when it comes to sex.
Then it's up to her to do what she wants within the rules you both decided.

Also we have to remember, every cute woman out there has at least 2-3 orbiters ready to fuck her.
Even in a traditional model, she will do whatever she wants, no matter how much you lay down the law.

 

[KJ Francis]

millions of years of evolution carving women into being intrinsically jealous

Interesting topic... Girls Chase has been informing my worldview since lay #2 (Karea, Varoon, etc.), so I've always had this view that all women will be more sexually attracted to the guy she can't get to fully sexually commit to her. It has been super interesting to see real life confirm girls are concerned with emotional fidelity, not sexual. Concerns of the latter really seem to be about the former.

I can't speak to long term main stability where she needs real lasting security, but my worry is actually the opposite... What happens when she stops being jealous??

This has always been like the "ultimate question" for me. How to raise a family while maintaining her chasing like in the playboy lifestyle. I will definitely revisit the @POB thread about non monogamous pair bonding in the future. But whether there are kids in the picture or not to me adds a level of risk for the whole family unit I quite likely will not want to take.

There are two competing mating strategies for her, right? Lover vs. provider, cads vs. Dads, etc. She will want to make the cad a Dad, but is that good on both the social and sexual level, or just the former?

Cause we have:

- Franco's Prince from Afar concept... Resentment of the man who lets her own his fidelity.

- Mystery saying jealousy plotlines in merged sets are essentially a prerequisite to pick up a 10, because she will not recognize her attraction for you until feeling jealousy.

- Preselection as p in v... vs. seeing a waitress flirt with you. If mate choice copying is one of the most powerful forces of nature... Female "jealousy" sounds like a shit test.

- I took out a pivot last night to scout venues. She slept over naked, is now practically begging me to get an STD test so she'll feel safe fucking me... And she left me a huge Hickey. It's territorial marking. To me this is a power to solve how to wield responsibly, not extinguish and give her peace in securing the "ball and chain".

- @Chase despite "Monogamy Can Work"... I of course believe it can work and isn't a one way ticket to the dry Sahara, but there is wet... and then there's WET. I will try to find the article that says something like "I am now convinced she has to at least suspect you are sleeping with other girls to maintain attraction".

The triad only failed because of social pressure, right?

Thread background music

As you can see, it plagues me. Always has.

 

[POB]

It has been super interesting to see real life confirm girls are concerned with emotional fidelity, not sexual. Concerns of the latter really seem to be about the former.

100%
Most guys don't get this.
She is not worried about you fucking other chicks...she is worried about you leaving her because of it.
This is what really needs to be addressed.

I can't speak to long term main stability where she needs real lasting security, but my worry is actually the opposite... What happens when she stops being jealous??

Why do you want jealousy in your life?
It leads to drama.

This has always been like the "ultimate question" for me. How to raise a family while maintaining her chasing like in the playboy lifestyle. I will definitely revisit the @POB thread about non monogamous pair bonding in the future. But whether there are kids in the picture or not to me adds a level of risk for the whole family unit I quite likely will not want to take.

There's always a risk IF you don't work on your relationship skills and doesn't maintain a baseline level of attractiveness, mono or not.
One of the biggest advantages of being open is that you are always in competition mode to:
- keep attracting new chicks;
- fend off potential competitors for your main;
If you have that chip on your shoulder, I doubt you'll ever slack and let yourself go (like most mono guys do).
Every main that I had said that she had to think about staying pretty and hot because they saw I was constantly attracting a lot of looks.
Mind you I'm the most chill guy ever when I have a woman in my arm.

There are two competing mating strategies for her, right? Lover vs. provider, cads vs. Dads, etc. She will want to make the cad a Dad, but is that good on both the social and sexual level, or just the former?

This is not how it works.
They want both on the same dude.
(which we know is virtually impossible)

You can't be both when you go mono (cause you kinda chose the provider route by default, right?)
Though going open will give her that impression of "unicorn man"....but only for a period of time.

In time she will accept you as her provider.
However, if you keep that hunting spark alive, she will keep wanting you in bed too.
It's the best outcome you can hope for.

 

[MrVariety]

There are no skeletons.
If she is main, she is aware about almost everything I'm doing, and vice-versa.
That's why you have "the talk".
No big secrets, or else it's back to FB.

My guess: you are still operating under the frame of a traditional relationship model.
A healthy open does not work like that...you treat her as your true equal when it comes to sex.
Then it's up to her to do what she wants within the rules you both decided.

Also we have to remember, every cute woman out there has at least 2-3 orbiters ready to fuck her.
Even in a traditional model, she will do whatever she wants, no matter how much you lay down the law.

What you do you mean still operating under the frame of a traditional relationship model?

You mean I'm running on an outdated paradigm?

I don't buy that for a second. I think we're just wired differently. Whether we choose to be monogamous or polygamous is personal preference, not something that is passé or modern.

There's are some things on this forum that I just cannot use. Skills mentioned in one of his threads he got her to fantasize about another man, her best previous ex, to excite her.

If I found out my girl is fantasizing about another guy while we're fucking, there's no more dick from me. For Skills, he sees no problem with it. I'm tired of people alluding to non-jealousy as more "mature." I used to be indifferent and worked really hard on being unemotional during sex, but after some time I've come to embrace monogamy, due to a personal preference for it. I don't really see the point of casual sex anymore, but hey, that's just me.

My entire system just shuts down and becomes apathetic toward a woman if she fucks another dude. It's disgusting.

Am I insecure, "still" in the traditional mode .... or are we just wired different biologically? I think the latter.

Mr Variety

 

[mirror]

What you do you mean still operating under the frame of a traditional relationship model?

You mean I'm running on an outdated paradigm?

I don't buy that for a second. I think we're just wired differently. Whether we choose to be monogamous or polygamous is personal preference, not something that is passé or modern.

There's are some things on this forum that I just cannot use. Skills mentioned in one of his threads he got her to fantasize about another man, her best previous ex, to excite her.

If I found out my girl is fantasizing about another guy while we're fucking, there's no more dick from me. For Skills, he sees no problem with it. I'm tired of people alluding to non-jealousy as more "mature." I used to be indifferent and worked really hard on being unemotional during sex, but after some time I've come to embrace monogamy, due to a personal preference for it. I don't really see the point of casual sex anymore, but hey, that's just me.

My entire system just shuts down and becomes apathetic toward a woman if she fucks another dude. It's disgusting.

Am I insecure, "still" in the traditional mode .... or are we just wired different biologically? I think the latter.

Mr Variety

There is some genetic difference in what people prefer as well as the patterns testosteron gets released as well as upbringing and emotional sensitivity and stuff.

 

[Skills]

There's are some things on this forum that I just cannot use. Skills mentioned in one of his threads he got her to fantasize about another man, her best previous ex, to excite her.

What??? Guys please if you are going to claim stuff, out of context, to make your points, please look for the specific post and quote it, so i can see the context..... I think Are you referring to the 2 cocks routine??

Brother, understand the context...

Some unusual sexual techniques that I have been using successfully (The 2 cocks routine) - The Skills Method

I have always been a sexual God, but I will confess that my sexual confidence and God like powers took a drastic hit, towards the end of my then 10 years relationship... My sexual masturbation theory is that we were probably losing attraction for each other and boredom (women are short term...

www.theskillsmethod.com

The op was not a mono vs poly argument...

There was an early part of my life i loved rotations (i actually love them during screening for main stages)...

However the reason that as of now i am not too happy for rotation is not practical for me in this point of my life for the reasons mention in the op...

You guys went into a poly vs mono arguments (boring) next asf burn this stupid arguments to the ground... is not a poly vs mono argument...

Is more of overated stuff i found (when at the point of the post i had a 4 girl rotation that i did not enjoy) became more problems that what it was worth... and i saw as kind of pointless...

You guys are taking this into a silly poly vs mono stuff, nothing to do with the op..

 

[MrVariety]

What??? Guys please if you are going to claim stuff, out of context, to make your points, please look for the specific post and quote it, so i can see the context..... I think Are you referring to the 2 cocks routine??

Brother, understand the context...

Some unusual sexual techniques that I have been using successfully (The 2 cocks routine) - The Skills Method

I have always been a sexual God, but I will confess that my sexual confidence and God like powers took a drastic hit, towards the end of my then 10 years relationship... My sexual masturbation theory is that we were probably losing attraction for each other and boredom (women are short term...

www.theskillsmethod.com

Yes, that was the post I thinking of. I'm surprised at your reaction though, I didn't think that would be controversial or interpreted as anything remotely hostile against you. I came to think of your advice in the starkest example I can give that we're wired differently. I don't make any judgement if a guy isn't jealous, or even takes sexual gratification in having another guy fuck his girl - I don't care.

The only thing I question is saying that aspiring sex gods should fake an attitude of non-judgement of sluttiness, and suppress their natural jealousy if they have any - because as Daniel Rose says - jealousy is not a sign of a sex god. It makes you seem insecure and makes her hide her sexual past etc etc.

I like to dominate women. And I can't feel I'm truly dominating her if I pretend I have no judgement about her sluttiness and fucking other men. What kind of fucking domination is there if you're basically too cowardly to state your own opinions and yet try to choke her like a porn star? That's why I react against POB's "still" phrasing.

Yeah I'm a judgmental son of a bitch to women I'm dating - and I couldn't care less what guys do. Consider me a traditional hypocrite - yeah - well, that's me.

Mr Variety

 

[Skills]

Yes, that was the post I thinking of. I'm surprised at your reaction though, I didn't think that would be controversial or interpreted as anything remotely hostile against you. I came to think of your advice in the starkest example I can give that we're wired differently. I don't make any judgement if a guy isn't jealous, or even takes sexual gratification in having another guy fuck his girl - I don't care.

The only thing I question is saying that aspiring sex gods should fake an attitude of non-judgement of sluttiness, and suppress their natural jealousy if they have any - because as Daniel Rose says - jealousy is not a sign of a sex god. It makes you seem insecure and makes her hide her sexual past etc etc.

I like to dominate women. And I can't feel I'm truly dominating her if I pretend I have no judgement about her sluttiness and fucking other men. What kind of fucking domination is there if you're basically too cowardly to state your own opinions and yet try to choke her like a porn star? That's why I react against POB's "still" phrasing.

Yeah I'm a judgmental son of a bitch to women I'm dating - and I couldn't care less what guys do. Consider me a traditional hypocrite - yeah - well, that's me.

Mr Variety

that does not mean you are a traditional hypocrite, if you don't like poly and you want to be mono, that is your preference.... You got a do you, i just did not like to make your point, when someone read that without knowing the context, they will be totally confuse...

 

[mirror]

The only thing I question is saying that aspiring sex gods should fake an attitude of non-judgement of sluttiness, and suppress their natural jealousy if they have any - because as Daniel Rose says - jealousy is not a sign of a sex god. It makes you seem insecure and makes her hide her sexual past etc etc.

This can also hit you back. If you show acceptance of slutty behaviour, it will communicate two things to her. 1) you fuck around too; 2) you wont mind if she fucks around.

That way you reinforce her behaviour. If you are capable of going mono, better to just say that if she is with you, if she fucks someone else, it's over. But then note that you both will be exclusive.

 

[KJ Francis]

Why do you want jealousy in your life?
It leads to drama.

True there is probably a more positive word for it... I wouldn't want her feeling insecure. It's more like preselection and the effects of getting laid in general.

You are just a completely different person if you are not dependent on her for sex.

Every main that I had said that she had to think about staying pretty and hot because they saw I was constantly attracting a lot of looks.
Mind you I'm the most chill guy ever when I have a woman in my arm.

This stuff basically. And general vibe if you have gotten laid in the last day or two.

In time she will accept you as her provider.
However, if you keep that hunting spark alive, she will keep wanting you in bed too.
It's the best outcome you can hope for.

I read today maybe fake stat but US men making over $80k non smokers non obese and single make up 1% of the male population.

Being able to pull off what you do... Lol one in a trillion.

I can't imagine providing for a woman unless we're having kids together though. Then it's more partnership venture investing in the goal, not her haha. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself.

The op was not a mono vs poly argument

True yeah I think it kind of looked like the ideal setup is main + ONS / low level FB.

So then it really becomes a question of open vs one sided.

To me it's also a major relationship progression question cause that's a no go for me in the short term. Without weekly ONS being realistic, best bet might be to avoid rotation pitfalls and do short term fuck buddies only. Like rotate out the whole rotation and keep increasing rate of turnover.

 

[KJ Francis]

beta/normie

Yeah from quote:

providers of anything else of women’s needs such as social value, material goods, emotional support and so on. These men will trade something else than sex in for having sex with a woman.

Why would I do any of that if not on a tract towards kids? On some level as leader of any relationship maybe you are responsible for her emotions in a way. But not in the therapist trading for sex way.

My experience has been dates before lay, then she comes over. From then our connection is confined in the kitchen, living room, and bedroom.

If I'm with a girl I'm going to let go in the short term, why take her out and boost her social value, make her rent cheaper, or literally anything other than talk, eat at home, and fuck?

If you both do not want kids, then maybe you have to "provide" more than your dick because you personally want companionship that extends a little wider than a fuck buddy. Otherwise SHE should be providing simple things like making food and coffee to earn sex.

Note I don't mean like how D Gately will take a girl to dinner and the theater for his own enjoyment having her on his arm. I'm talking like a real main connection where she is putting her stake in you and devoting herself emotionally.

If I take on a main in her early 20's who I know wants kids but I know I'm going to cut her loose as soon as she pushes hard for commitment... That is "wasting the best years of her life" as girls say. I.e. fertility timing.

 

[mirror]

Yeah from quote:
Why would I do any of that if not on a tract towards kids?

On some level as leader of any relationship maybe you are responsible for her emotions in a way. But not in the therapist trading for sex way.

Yes, i think we are responsible for our share of emotional outcomes the other gets in response to things we did that influence them that we could have done differently.

My experience has been dates before lay, then she comes over. From then our connection is confined in the kitchen, living room, and bedroom.

If that's what you both like.

If I'm with a girl I'm going to let go in the short term, why take her out and boost her social value, make her rent cheaper, or literally anything other than talk, eat at home, and fuck?

Because the seducers #1 rule is to leave anyone you seduce the same or better off after you than he or she was before you?
Otherwise it's impossible to justify seduction

If you both do not want kids, then maybe you have to "provide" more than your dick because you personally want companionship that extends a little wider than a fuck buddy.

Depends on what the girl wants or asks for and what you want to provide for and what not. In the end it's an agreement, or not.

Otherwise SHE should be providing simple things like making food and coffee to earn sex.

"Earning" sex is the wrong way to go about it buddy

 

[KJ Francis]

If that's what you both like.

No, the girl will often push for more socially. She wants to get closer to real girlfriend status. I get guys might want some companionship with their rotations (@D. Gately and @Atlas IV do this) and I can see myself doing that in the future as well.

But when a girl already can fall in love with you confined at home, taking her out into the world is setting it up for a heartbreak IF you are not careful and very skilled with relationship management.

Because the seducers #1 rule is to leave anyone you seduce the same or better off after you than he or she was before you?
Otherwise it's impossible to justify seduction

Man with your DICK and engaging conversations, being good with her emotions, etc. I've had more than one girl fall in love with me who I met online and went straight to her house. Never even seen them exist outside of her own house property.

I don't think improving her personal balance sheet or taking her on adventures is the way. Ideal response I get is "I just love being around you".

If you enjoy these things for yourself, then great. Just make sure you ask yourself if you'd really do these things if you didn't have to. Are you trading in some way to keep her attention etc. It's all her driver towards having a man support the children. It's a path to tread carefully, leading her on.

what you want to provide for and what not. In the end it's an agreement, or not.

Provide orgasms, and conversation. If she NEEDS more to stay with you, maybe she needs more orgasms.

Eventually you will hit the two year drop or whatever... Relationships need progression. I am talking girls you know when you meet them you are not going to have kids with or stay with for many, many years.

"Earning" sex is the wrong way to go about it buddy

Rewarding investment???

It's not verbally presented in this way. It's conditioning.

If a girl cooks you dinner, are you just going to say thanks honey and kiss her on the cheek, or are you going to bang her at the kitchen sink after she checks the oven?

 

[KJ Francis]

To me it is not a mono vs. poly argument.

Here is pure evil on serial monogamy

Long-Term - The serial monogamy lifestyle- Riding the pair bond rush from pure evil (repost)

Ok guys i just got a massive legit headache talking to poly guys that never have or minimally have done monogamy, about monogamy, most of them kjing... Anyways, before i post, the name of the poster/author is pure evil he was one of my favorite poster in nextasf, now retired flirted with coming...

www.skilledseducer.com

Same issue with having a main and seeing other girls.

Zero mention of setting expectations in the link above.

He knows even before meeting her that he'll be moving on in 1-2 years.

Does she know that??

 

[KJ Francis]

I don't think improving her personal balance sheet or taking her on adventures is the way. Ideal response I get is "I just love being around you".

If you enjoy these things for yourself, then great. Just make sure you ask yourself if you'd really do these things if you didn't have to.

Reference post #4 and #15

Socializing - How to avoid the pitfalls of the old "I need money" conundrum

Whats up gents? This will be a long one, so buckle up. Promise I'll try to keep it as short and practical as I can. She asks for money...now what? Let's say you've met this cool chick. Doesn't matter where, but you guys been going back and forth, the vibe is good, everything is nice. Then...

www.skilledseducer.com

Note the strategy was for extending the inevitable