Using descriptive, emotional language to arouse

[James Cruse]

Some background:

- Though not at all binary, the female brain is generally more interhemispheric (better left/right connection) and male brain more intrahemispheric (better front/back connection... motor skills, spatial processing, etc.) Pretty sure this was a Penn study.

- Dr. Rosemary Basson's widely accepted model of female sexual response: it is triggered by context, emotional intimacy, and mental engagement, not just spontaneous physical urge

- Meston Lab at the University of Texas highlights a phenomenon called "concordance" (much lower in women): A woman's body might react physically, but her mind may not register subjective arousal unless her emotions and intellect are engaged. Maybe related to "misattribution of arousal" (horror movies, roller coasters)?

@Brassfaced_Jim Did you read this or completely ignore it in your reply (where you just repeated what you said in every other message in this thread)?

Women (unfortunately) don't feel sexual arousal the same as men. Most men in the world know this and you're trying to claim women fell sexual arousal the same as men, here and in other threads. That's your assertion.

We know (in the seduction community) that women feel more emotional than sexual arousal and even when they feel sexual arousal, most of the time, this registers as emotions/emotional to them. This is what Francis just said here.

The studies referenced here - I've read them and there's been more studies since: Women have a huge amount of interference from each side of their brain when thinking or processing external stimulus. So the side where the emotions originate - is highly prevalent in their thinking, which is the opposite for men. Men's have very specific hemispheric thinking with little hemispheric interuption from the other side of the brain (i.e. very little emotional interruptions when thinking logically).

A few studies:

Stanford Medicine - Neurobiology Studies of Men & Women's Brain Differences

Brain Scans of Hemispheric Differenes - The Atlantic

You're essentially indirectly claiming Women are not more emotional than men and additionally that women's sexual response is the same as men's and earlier you claimed that men you know only look for women ovulating and then tailor very specific things to what they say (aka we should only approach and seduce women ovulating).
You're further claiming seduction doesn't work due to all these factors.

Then you're now trying to personally attack the guy who tested and wrote the system - I think that he did so well despite looking like he did is testament to how well it works. Cliff from Cliff's list went to stay with him and saw him do many approaches, so he's said. Then he did this interview you posted.

It just seems like you're really scared that any other men will actually build their skills in seduction - because you don't want to take any time to build yours. I see that in all the other threads you reply to - derailing them by saying that all seduction doesn't work, nobody should even try and then making broad claims using dated pop psychology from 20-25 years ago.

Lol even if a BOOK could hypnotise you to kingdom come and back (it can't, but let's say it COULD hypothetically) - how would that change the effectiveness of the seduction method on women and women's responses to that method?

@Brassfaced_Jim can you answer this though or you concede it's not doing that and you just don't want to read?

 

[James Cruse]

from a google search of “what are the phases of a classic hypnosis” you will find
Phase 2 - deepening / fractionation and the common tool of the use of descending imagery (such as the classic ‘moving spiral’ )

Is that what you think that graph says? Lol you understand we can all read that and see it doesn't mean that right?

And you’ve been denying the book has any Hypno elements to it or was written with that purpose all the way through our pm chat and this thread. Which does not compute. At all.

Let's say you're right - and it's hypothetically ALL heavy hypnosis or it has alot of hypnosis elements in it.
Why would that matter if it's very effective in seducing women?

plus . You’ve urged me to read this SK book, thoroughly , over and over again , for weeks now, what gives? I read it , I skimmed it/speed read through.i can clearly see it for what it is , and how it’s written.

If you did read it (you didn't) - you certainly didn't understand it because what you just said above about it is not correct and not even close to being correct.
And you haven't ever tried it. I'm not bothered if you try it or not mate but don't lie about something you don't know or even understand.

because I did training in Hypno and conversational Hypno , and have done the weekender courses.

Which courses exactly, which coaches and their names? And how is it relevant here - so what if this is a NLP based system if it's effective?

so this has to surely be the final nail in the coffin of all of this. LOL.

So you admit it's effective (or could be) but it shouldn't be used because it's related to NLP or hypnosis? Am I getting that right?

So, this is you telling guys NOT to do seduction like in all your other comments and posts in many other threads on this forum. Is that right or are you going to keep repeating yourself?

Why are you so opposed to this - what dog do you have in the race here?

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

@James Cruse @Kshatrap A.V. @Jamster @OldGuy and any others

this is on page 47 of the SK book.
The deepening/fractionation stage section of the books big hypnosis session.

this is JDFs diagram of female emotional structure

from a google search of “what are the phases of a classic hypnosis” you will find
Phase 2 - deepening / fractionation and the common tool of the use of descending imagery (such as the classic ‘moving spiral’ )

so what does this look like to you guys?

https://online.fliphtml5.com/grmzw/cjni/#p=47

The funniest part of this exchange with you Mr James Cruse .. Is that you claimed to me over our pre coaching phonecall that you were, quote “one of the best Hypnotists in your state in Australia ‘ if not “The Best”.

And you’ve been denying the book has any Hypno elements to it or was written with that purpose all the way through our pm chat and this thread. Which does not compute. At all.

plus . You’ve urged me to read this SK book, thoroughly , over and over again , for weeks now, what gives? I read it , I skimmed it/speed read through.i can clearly see it for what it is , and how it’s written.

because I did training in Hypno and conversational Hypno , and have done the weekender courses.

This is all a bit ludicrous tbh,

like, why would I make this shit up?

even funnier , this JD Fuentes also wrote the same book - but for WOMEN. Right?

Named ‘Rousing The Lion’ .
Basically , the same idea - how any woman can use conversational hypnosis to pickup hot guys using Words.

so this has to surely be the final nail in the coffin of all of this. LOL.

Again. What's the point of all this?

If you know a better way to get laid then create your own thread or even your own channel or website.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

Slight derail: @Brassfaced_Jim

Note: You need to stop taking women's words on the face value. Today, In class a girl was talking about a man to our female teacher and saying that how he was a psycho and patriarachal etc. but the guy that is rumoured to be her boyfriend is also very patriarchal and macho. All these women talk about players are bad, bla bla bla and then try to put a ring on those players.

I have lost count in my life when I was disregarded by women for men (even older men, uglier men) who were dating a lot of women and were not treating them right.

Women are different than men so things work differently on women. If you ask your male co-worker to grab a bite v/s you ask your female co-worker for a bite. Both will see it differently and in no circumstances will your male co-worker go to the HR for your behaviour. But, In case of women, things will be different on whether she likes you or not.

 

[Francis]

stop taking women's words on the face value

Man this is a great reminder... I have had girls be mad about something and then get all accusatory, and then like two sentences later she reveals something entirely different that is the real "reason" for her emotion.

It's incredibly aggravating and becomes much more easy breezy once understanding that her emotion is the cause, not the effect.

"Don't change her mind. Change her mood."

 

[Francis]

And mostly picks up foreign travellers and backpackers from observing his LRs

James Cruse?

I thought he posted two... A girl he met in a mall and went to her apartment... And a girl from night game he pulled home while her friend waited in his place.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

Don't change her mind. Change her mood

Yes.

A girl once complained a lot about how her married co workers would hit on her ... But then later got excited about a father of her student ( father was married) .

Most likely the difference is how she felt in both situations.

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

The question I have re this book and this general theory of *connecting at a deep level to a range of a woman’s emotions ,-> to then arouse her sexual emotions- > and then fuck her *

is this -
If this was true , then why aren’t there gangs of Master NLP / Hypno dudes , hanging around strip clubs for example, waiting for the smoking hot strippers to knock off work. So they can tune them w conversation and fuck them?

or outside Hawaiian Tropic Calendar conventions, waiting for the models.

Or wherever Hot Fit Younger Women all congregate?

I mean, to extrapolate these claims with male logic and rationale ..every Master Hypnotist /NLP seduction guru would be banging a rotation of Hot Porno Stars or Strippers or Whatever.

It just doesn’t add up, any way a man, who lives in reality, chooses to look at it.
Jim.

Why aren't all men who are good looking, money and status getting laid?

 

[Francis]

Hmm.. I haven’t read all his LRs but the 2-3 I perused were all foreign chicks (non aussies) . They were younger and kudos to him for that but all foreign afaics.

seemed to be a trend in his LRS tbh.

younger foreign chicks travelling/backpacking has much less worry about hooking up w local guys. Especially if they are taller , have some looks and some relative status vs them (money, job, nice apartment etc) there are other bigger factors at play there, in those situs.

Ok here is Karea from another thread:

The money thing is maybe the most annoying of these limiting beliefs coming out of the manosphere. Looks and fame help a lot, especially in the first few minutes, but money isn't even necessary or helpful at all.

At my peak when i was doing 5-7 lays a month from daygame cold approach I was living in a piece of shit room in a shared house on the bad side of town. The room was hardly bigger than my mattress. I had no vehicle, so I'd meet girls downtown for a beer in some place with plastic tables and plastic chairs, then get them to take the bus with me, to the bad side of town, and bang them in the little hole I called a room. Some of these girls told me about other guys who'd pick them up in lambos and even helicopters, take them to the most expensive places... doesn't matter.

The opposite extreme is several friends of mine who used to be good PUAs (one of them extremely good) and who now have north of 10 million dollars. They have given up completely on trying to use the money to get girls. They tried to use money in their game as a bonus or shortcut once they had their shit together financially, several lambos, boats, big parties, huge penthouses, luxury vacations with girls, etc.

Their conclusion is money only yields false positives. People and girls will give you more attention, but it's not actual attraction. It's useless and in fact often counter-productive because it's hard to avoid giving off a provider (=beta) vibe when you use money to get attention. The only one thing that works is using money to buy social proof. Everything else is useless or even worse than useless. Women only care how you make them feel.

EDIT: By the way this shouldn't be an excuse not to work on financial success... that's still very much worth the effort. Being financially free makes life about 10 times easier. Just it doesn't really get genuine attraction from women (other than to buy some fashion and have more free time to go out).

-Karea.

And here's mine. I'm now in a studio with a mattress directly on the floor and a piece of patio furniture. Purposefully.

I remember I was living in an office building for $250/month on a futon and showering at the gym, unbeknowst to the landlord, and got fired from literally dancing in a Chuck E. Cheese costume after two days. I don't do well respecting authority I have no respect for. Now I am in a three bedroom house to myself with wildlife around and consider it a problem to manage, but I got 7 lays during that few months.

Re: this...

general theory of *connecting at a deep level to a range of a woman’s emotions ,-> to then arouse her sexual emotions- > and then fuck her *

so the alternative to is engage her with logic?

I have asked the mods to split this thread, because the productive discussion is all watered down now.

 

[Francis]

I have asked the mods to split this thread, because the productive discussion is all watered down now.

Signed KJ Francis, King of the Derailers

 

[Kshatrap A.V.]

I can decipher this - there’s a word missing or something - good looking with or without money and status?

but it doesn’t matter I guess.
Good looking men with money and status are definitely getting laid.
And good looking men without money are definitely getting laid.
Cos their status is based on their good looks.

as for Karea - someone told me he was male model tier Looks wise(?) is this true?

for yourself - I’ll bet money you’re better looking than you rate yourself . Or are a decent looking foreigner where you are.
Or something else similar at play.

Re the emotions - it’s not a dichotomy or binary argument.
The main 2 emotions a man must stimulate are (a) safety , so the woman can relax
And (b) excitement and moreso sexually based emotions

women need to relax and feel there is no threats around /about the guy , before she’ll be ready to fuck him. Then she needs to start getting wet with his touch and his sexy words and voice tone.

So all of the above can be done with Tone Of Voice.

Yet another reason such a book as this won’t teach a guy how to converse the right way. Can’t learn tonality from written words.

that’d be an audio book.
And if a guy talked with the same tonality as JD Fuentes does on that Cliffs list interview/seminar/hypnosis …. He’s gonna come off Creepy AF. So that’s gonna break condition (a) above, which is a very important condition for a woman.

No. I know that I look good but that never helped me. There was a time in life when I even thought that I should have been ugly.

I have seen girls I wanted go for worse looking guys, bad fashion, even less status.

Women can yap all they want but they will have sex with the men who make them feel something.

So. Whether a man does it by pickup tech, money, status... Doesn't matter. Everyone has a choice.

But all i know is that it's only when i started learning pickup... My life got better. So, yeah... Money and status are great... I am working to build them up but they will never be the main factor for me.

Reason? I don't want those kind of women who only stay with me for my money or status.


I am also looking for women who will be by my side regardless of external situation in life... Maybe, I am not from western culture so that's why.

My goals are both getting lot of lays and also high level women.

So, I can't achieve it by just staying constraints or rules like only LMS or only game. I am including everything.

Do what it takes to build the life i want.

 

[James Cruse]

The point is - I’m illustrating that this book & method is a waste of time. Its theory of connecting deeply with women’s emotions is a deeply flawed / incorrect theory of how to seduce them.

I really don't think you understand - it's not that much time to waste (assuming it is a waste of time).
You're acting like spending some time finding out if a seduction method works or not by spending some time with it, is a life-threatening concern for anyone here - it isn't.
A small amount of time seems to be a life-threatening concern that you've now spent hours replying about and repeating yourself. You could have read the whole book 3-4 times over in the time it took you to write all these replies (just on this thread).

Are you trying to save people alot of time in other threads in this forum and telling them seduction doesn't work and telling them not to do any seduction and just approach women when they're ovulating and not telling them how?

I know this , because it’s basically the same as RJs speed seduction method.( which I learned thoroughly and tested in the field)

JD Fuentes was a student of RJ - he just wrote his own books and started his own biz afterward ( as so many of RJs students did) based on the same techniques of hypnosis/NLP.

So what? If it's effective - why does any of this matter? You still haven't answered this question when everyone's been asking you repeatedly. Why does it matter if it's NLP if it's effective? Why does it matter if it's based on Speed seduction if it's effective?

they are pretty much exactly the same type of patterns as Ross’.

as to any proof of wether this method works ? Oh ,well , maybe just ask about 50,000 students of Ross Jeffries , if they found his Speed Seduction worked for them to get laid . (With Hot Young Chicks . tonite!)

Plenty of them say it's effective and many of the people that went on to flourish in the seduction community learned Speed seduction first and continued to use it.
Anyone who's tried it knows it works, you agreed it works yourself. Alek Rolstad (Teev), one of the main writers here uses it as the main part of his seduction.
So does Gunwitch (another main writer on GirlsChase) - he uses the Sexual Key system. You saying it doesn't work - you're the only one saying that.

Im not using ‘seduction’ at all in his option. Cos I’m not getting the hot young fit chicks he can , from using his magic SK powers in DayGame cold approach.

Nobody needs any skills to meet women in their 40's from dating apps like you do. That's great for you - but it's not our demographic so nobody could likely learn from what you're doing or cares. Women in their 40's are easy for all of us, those women don't have an abundance of options so they can't be picky with men, as you know.

You just keep repeating yourself in every reply - don't you get bored?

btw , that certain someone is definitely 6 foot fall. And probably pretty good looking to boot. And mostly picks up foreign travellers and backpackers from observing his LRs … so maybe other things at play there.

You keep repeating this like nobody has read my two LR's or can't just go over and look. One was an Australian and the other was a Canadian who moved here permanently. None were travellers lol. Why repeat this lie more than once? Just seems like you have a weird agenda.

is this -
If this was true , then why aren’t there gangs of Master NLP / Hypno dudes , hanging around strip clubs for example, waiting for the smoking hot strippers to knock off work. So they can tune them w conversation and fuck them?

Why does it matter? How does it make it any less true or effective? Do you need many other people do something and for it to become commonplace before you're even TRY it? Is that why you don't try anything - terrified because alot of other men aren't already doing something.
If everyone here only did what normal guys do - this community wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be getting good results. Once most guys are doing something - it's no longer effective on women because it's become a common behaviour.

Why isn't EVERY guy doing everything on this forum? Why aren't there gangs of guys using all the different methods suggested everywhere on this forum with every woman? Answer that

Why aren't all men who are good looking, money and status getting laid?

He won't answer - he's far too blackpilled at this point from his dating app bitterness.

so the alternative to is engage her with logic?

@Brassfaced_Jim - is that what you're proposing, to just be logical instead? Otherwise what else is there?

Good looking men with money and status are definitely getting laid.
And good looking men without money are definitely getting laid.
Cos their status is based on their good looks.

We all know people who have all these things and more and struggle with women. Again, more black pill from you.

for yourself - I’ll bet money you’re better looking than you rate yourself . Or are a decent looking foreigner where you are.
Or something else similar at play.

Why does that always need to be the case? Perhaps it needs to be the case for you because you think seduction doesn't work, so this is the only way this could be true?

Re the emotions - it’s not a dichotomy or binary argument.
The main 2 emotions a man must stimulate are (a) safety , so the woman can relax
And (b) excitement and moreso sexually based emotions

women need to relax and feel there is no threats around /about the guy , before she’ll be ready to fuck him. Then she needs to start getting wet with his touch and his sexy words and voice tone.

So all of the above can be done with Tone Of Voice.

Based on what? Dated pop psychology from 25 years ago? Lol show us a source for where you got this because nobody here agrees with this.

And if a guy talked with the same tonality as JD Fuentes does on that Cliffs list interview/seminar/hypnosis …. He’s gonna come off Creepy AF. So that’s gonna break condition (a) above, which is a very important condition for a woman.

Speculation from you. Again, why does it matter if his system is effective?

And I don’t know why JC is so touchy about me dismantling this particular book and author.

Again - why are you spending all this time repeating yourself and saying things that nobody cares about - when we can just test it for ourselves (as can you)?

You realise - once these guys test it and find it's effective - you'll lose all your credibility for saying all of this, right?

I mean everyone has had a crack at Ross Jeffries . JDF is a student of Jeffries. His book is a repackaged SS product, basically.

How do you know when you haven't read it (and I have)? Are you saying everyone that's read it is lying?

I have seen girls I wanted go for worse looking guys, bad fashion, even less status.

Women can yap all they want but they will have sex with the men who make them feel something.

So. Whether a man does it by pickup tech, money, status... Doesn't matter. Everyone has a choice.

But all i know is that it's only when i started learning pickup... My life got better. So, yeah... Money and status are great... I am working to build them up but they will never be the main factor for me.

This is too outside Jim's black pill reality where he thinks everyone's lying and secretly all good looking, rich or has plenty of status and that's why they can sleep with women (even those the men themselves don't know it - but he does).
He thinks you just need to arouse a woman sexually and that's all - because he only dates women in their 40's, so he can say whatever and it all works for those women.

 

[Jamster]

This thread is taking up a lot of oxygen.

Too much heat; not enough light.

 

[Francis]

Chase has only ever been pictured with one hired actress as well.

Look how she looks at him though...

Thread collapsed...

 

[James Cruse]

On at least 5 -10 points of contention I’ve thrown at him why this doesn’t stuff doesn’t work. Every valid point I’ve raised he replies wirh “I don’t do that bit, i found it to be a lot of work and not needed /ineffective.ive binned that , and something else from another system” as he has here .here with you.

I'm sure it's very effective to act out the emotions - I just choose not to because what I use it for is very effective without it.

There's many parts there recommended that are OPTIONAL - you aren't required to do them. You would know that if you'd read ANY single book on seduction available lol.

move requested photos on our ok chat about 20 times now. Online file sharing has not downloadable features now. Disappearing photos etc . He could easily blur out his eyes and the eyes of the wowan to keep anonymous. But he won’t send me any , because there is none. He just keeps redirecting me to read this stupid book and get my head in a knot with all these Hypno in it lol. Which I can see clearly. Cos I’ve trained in if. lol.

Lol he thinks he's being hypnotised by this thread and my messages here. I hope you're having a laugh or it's alot more sad if you truly think that.

if the book & system is so awesome, why are you dumping what instructs you to do in the book and system ? -because you find it “a lot of work and it is really not needed?”

There's plenty of other effective parts to every method of seduction, enough for it to be successful. It is very successful when I've added that part, but it takes alot of work.
Why does that bother you if one part is left out? Does that invalidate everything else, by your logic?

I reckon about 10% of the book is useful from my read… you only use about 30% of it.

So somewhere between 10% and 30% of the book is useful.

Don't read it mate, I don't care. I'm writing this for everyone else looking at this thread.

But you haven't read it, so that's not true. I would say I used 90% of what's in that book in regular daygame. What were all the other things you found useless in that book - can you list them here for us (because you said you read it)?

if you are in fact getting laid through cold approach with hot younger women. It’s mainly because you are 6’ Tall and decent looking. As you’ve admitted to me in the pms.

This is a sad cope from you - nobody believes this and everyone has disagreed with you about whenever you keep bashing this all of this entire website.
But keep pushing this black pill nonsense - I'm sure it's a helpful coping mechanism to excuse why you're failing and not trying.

I'm not going to coach you mate, that's done.

 

[Glow]

Back to OP:
I outline a way to use descriptive language in a very concrete way here albeit more as one part of a conversation management technique which is how you should think about it

Elicitation

A subtle but powerful key to managing conversations with women. Game generation one tended to rest a lot on spitting game; the art of leading and plowing with multiple stimulating techs. And definitely useful. Using statements followed. Muti-threading and others. These are the more famous...

www.skilledseducer.com

Note eg the use of descriptive language in a sub-bullet:

• Stimulate the responses through emotional stimulation - picturesq descriptions, emotional description etc.

i divide it into
1) external descriptions - she suddenly looked up at me.. her yellow eyes tensed... a tear.. ran down her chin... <(signals that she is sad but doesnt say she is)
2) internal descriptions - You know that feeling of sexual attraction.. when you FEEL.. an explosion of warmth rising up in your legs, swirveling up into your abdomen then you FEEL i into your breasts.. floating.. you nipples stiffen.. only too rise into your head...
these focuses on different parts of the brain so it stimulates harder. Note that If YOU only use it the receiving brain becomes tired of it. so temper it.

Also note that #2 is using commands, a rising pattern etc.

Real story tellers use what i outline here, not the 98% preaching storytelling on youtube but REAL storytellers who can capture you - theres a captivation element to using descriptive language. I can literally capture a room using that and a few other language choices. Captivation is one of the seductive keys you wanna get - something every seducer should study hard.

The thing is literally Al the verbal seducers uses it for emotional stimulation. often as a gateway into a more immersed state where she feels more - and is activated as emotional being. But its more of something we just do as part of the arsenal.

Someone mentioned riker - thats your best path to understand it IMO. Originally recommended to me by Teevs.One of the best reads.

Btw elicitation Is a followup post on quite a few discussions i had with an old user called Bacchus so some of the parts are gone as he left. We were both actively using Riker - bacchus much more extensively which was key to his verbal game. The best way to both use this effectively and force yourself to learn it imo is to focus on SOTS - again introduced by Riker. And just train a few of teevsters amazing portfolio of gambits. Note how he uses it for Some parts in his gambits - its concrete field tested stuff used to drive lays - ive seen him do this and its quite amazing to see. You might be able to find some posts on these. Maybe chase has an article? Seduction oriented topics done using language techniques such as descriptive adjectives etc.

but again - descrptive emotional language is just PART of your language tools in verbal seduction, but effectful.

 

[Glow]

OP: Just another technique i used for you to see to understand that the descriptive part rests in a plethora of techiques that makes the descriptive part work https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...y-field-testing-i-november.25098/#post-137679

Check also some users who did this logging their paths, forgot their names but a few stood out especially remember one as he did the work and detailed it out with field practice getting comments from many of us routined guys cause he was doing the work in field and doing rapports. Thats where we can and will pitch in.

I would suggest you to read somerthing like riker and start appying it if you want actual seductive effect - do the work.

 

[James Cruse]

I outline a way to use descriptive language in a very concrete way here albeit more as one part of a conversation management technique which is how you should think about it

Sounds great, so you're using Riker's version of Speed seduction?
Have you read the system proposed in Sexual Key ver.3 by J.D. Fuentes and tried it, instead of Riker?

I've tried Riker's version many times and it works, but it's lacking in flexibility, so it feels rigid and can sometimes be difficult to fit into the conversation or be highly responsive topically.

Elicitation - I never liked asking questions to elicit anything and it confines her responses too much. I find that if I make assertive statements or assumptions (even if sometimes asking questions just in statement form) - I get alot more useful, detailed and surprising answers from women, in comparison to questioning.

I also think 'Eliciting values' directly looks transparent in what you're doing - she can see the direction you're taking and may not want you to use that with her, so you can (falsely) claim you have the same values as her (she suspects you might do this, we know that's not the purpose of it) or can use her values for your own purposes.

But if she tells you her values when you didn't ask, just from creatively making statements - then it feels like it was her idea to give her values to you and it seems like she's investing pro-actively herself, rather than you ask and she (maybe) replies.

Real story tellers use what i outline here, not the 98% preaching storytelling on youtube but REAL storytellers who can capture you - theres a captivation element to using descriptive language. I can literally capture a room using that and a few other language choices. Captivation is one of the seductive keys you wanna get - something every seducer should study hard.

I said this above - storytelling is important to women but it looks nothing like the male-structured stories (aka with plot structure, hero's journey, payoff, cause-effect, problem-solution).

Women stories, as you alluded to here, are an emotional journey - the plot structure is irrelevant to women. That's why women love soap operas and trashy reality tv like 'Love Island' and 'Married at First Sight' - it's all an emotional journey and no plot or storyline whatsoever.

but again - is just PART of your language tools in verbal seduction, but effectful.

A powerful tool indeed, not the whole tool.

 

[Glow]

Sounds great, so you're using Riker's version of Speed seduction?
Have you read the system proposed in Sexual Key ver.3 by J.D. Fuentes and tried it, instead of Riker?

Nope i havent. sounds interesting . did note it in your post. thanks for detailing out a bit.

I've tried Riker's version many times and it works, but it's lacking in flexibility, so it feels rigid and can sometimes be difficult to fit into the conversation or be highly responsive topically.

For me Riker is a base platform. But the strongest one made for verbals in the speed sed/sexual sed direction from MASF guys. I just recommend it due to OPS focus and level.

Interesting - Why is its rigid for you? its a very floaty riff based style allowing for a flexible usage?

But yes its just a framework that misses many things but captures some well.

Elicitation - I never liked asking questions to elicit anything and it confines her responses too much. I find that if I make assertive statements or assumptions (even if sometimes asking questions just in statement form) - I get alot more useful, detailed and surprising answers from women, in comparison to questioning.

I also think 'Eliciting values' directly looks transparent in what you're doing - she can see the direction you're taking and may not want you to use that with her, so you can (falsely) claim you have the same values as her (she suspects you might do this, we know that's not the purpose of it) or can use her values for your own purposes.

But if she tells you her values when you didn't ask, just from creatively making statements - then it feels like it was her idea to give her values to you and it seems like she's investing pro-actively herself, rather than you ask and she (maybe) replies.

Fair to your preference and itneresting points on statements. But If we can use both tactics we will be stronger seducers with adaptive variety.

I said this above - storytelling is important to women but it looks nothing like the male-structured stories (aka with plot structure, hero's journey, payoff, cause-effect, problem-solution).

Women stories, as you alluded to here, are an emotional journey - the plot structure is irrelevant to women. That's why women love soap operas and trashy reality tv like 'Love Island' and 'Married at First Sight' - it's all an emotional journey and no plot or storyline whatsoever.

Well... the plot structure is also about dramature. Dramature exactly plays with emotional buildups and roller coasters if we look away from simplified notions of it.

 

[James Cruse]

Interesting - Why is its rigid for you? its a very floaty riff based style allowing for a flexible usage?

Sexual key is by far the most flexible system for NLP and I've tried them, feel free to read the book and see for yourself. It makes Speed seduction (in any form) feel very rigid in comparison.

speed sed/sexual sed direction from MASF guys

Well, Franco used Sexual key and it looks like Gunwitch uses it aswell, based on SMMA's description and usage, in practice. So i t is already used by other and I think alot simpler for beginners to begin using, from what I've seen.

Fair to your preference but this is like base level tech for influence that works. Your perception of womens reactions in this has worms in it. If we can use both tactics we will be stronger seducers with adaptive variety.

I'm being nice to be honest - asking questions is weak so I avoid it like the plague. It's cornering them, it's boxing them in, it puts unnecessary pressure on them, it's confining their answers and makes you seem like you're chasing, even if only a small amount (and sometimes a large amount). When a woman asks me questions - I consider that her chasing me (and I think you agree with this when women do this to you). Questioning communicates alot of interest while being more on the logical side, rather than stimulating.

Elicting takes that one step further, and targets her values. It's akin to a line of questioning like, "Hey, what are all the things you like? (because I can be that if you tell me)"

The other issue with questioning women's values is they don't tell the truth and aren't incentivised to answer honestly with questions, so you get false positives or get a non-answer (arguably worse, now you're chasing).
This is the same for most questions men ask women directly.

I'm not the only one that thinks this in the seduction industry.

Asking questions (and other parts of NLP like rapport building or mirroring) don't translate well to seduction from their original setting of therapy and family therapy.