Using descriptive, emotional language to arouse

[Francis]

Thank you for your response @Glow

I will review in detail and resist engaging in replying until engaging with the outside world. I don't like to leave long helpful posts people have put time into writing with a simple like or small response. But it is very much appreciated. One of the only things I know about you is you've winged with Teevster, so I trust you very much (hey look, social proof...) Lol

Parting is such sweet sorrow with more interesting points from @James Cruse ... So cool to see this sort of discussion with you older guys. The point about using questions is interesting since I also view any questions from a girl as chasing, or at least a fairly noticeable indicator of interest.

On eliciting values and rapport, I am always interested to hear that guys don't always get to know a girl. Like @West_Indian_Archie though I do not have a good grasp of how it's done. Touch and go for comfort does make sense, and I'm sure there's still fostering some understanding of her via cold reading, etc. But I originally learned Chase's repartee & rapport from his book, deep diving of course, and Mystery's C2, swapping life stories.

I don't know how else you could really seduce a woman at a deep emotional level without knowing her inner world. Maybe you guys don't attempt this or even want to at all for a same night lay especially.

From yesterday's date:

FR - Remember to Lead

Ok so I tried something a little unusual. I posted on reddit for a college town where it's kind of empty for summer but still sees some action. I used the word "wingman" first and it got auto deleted. So I posted again and said I was looking for anyone who is sitting at home wishing they had...

www.skilledseducer.com

Here is part of the texting last night as an example of what I'd consider using the nerdiness I elicited out of her. Maybe it's more surface level than attitude similarity.

***

Me: Mhm sure... you're just throwing me off your trail. I bet there's not even a [name similar to mine that Siri misheard]. Otherwise maybe Siri's up to something...

Her: Oooh I didn't even consider rogue AI !! I don't know how I could have missed that one lol

Me: Well it definitely wasn't divine coincidence [referring to something earlier]. If it's a product of the Matrix maybe we shouldn't fall for their plan

Her: What do you suppose their "plan" is, exactly?

Me: It could be beyond the comprehension of the human brain... But if the AI wants us to meet... Maybe we shouldn't ever again...

Her: Seems to me like another attempt at reverse psychology on your part

Me: The most transparent of attempts

Her: [napoleon dynamite YES gif] Knew it

Me: Still might be best to plan meeting in person in case it tries manipulating messages

Her: Probably unlikely to be able to hangout again until after this semester ends. At least until I'm done with my assignments, anyway.
My professor did say attendance isn't mandatory for my last class, as long as my portfolio is complete before then. Maybe we could go to that [nerdy] thing you mentioned? [Near my place]


***

Not exactly an evil chameleon...

Farewell for now...

 

[James Cruse]

On eliciting values and rapport, I am always interested to hear that guys don't always get to know a girl. Like @West_Indian_Archie though I do not have a good grasp of how it's done. Touch and go for comfort does make sense, and I'm sure there's still fostering some understanding of her via cold reading, etc. But I originally learned Chase's repartee & rapport from his book, deep diving of course, and Mystery's C2, swapping life stories.

I don't know how else you could really seduce a woman at a deep emotional level without knowing her inner world. Maybe you guys don't attempt this or even want to at all for a same night lay especially.

I think alot of guys wrongly conflate "not asking women questions" to = Not getting to know her/Not being curious about her

That's the exact opposite of why I recommend statements and assumptions over asking questions and asking elicitations.

You get to know women so much more and organically when you make stimulating statements - they can answer on her terms and it feels (to her) like she's investing in you, unprompted by you. While at the same time, she doesn't feel like you're chasing her or being logical or panic asking her questions because you don't know what to say or don't want to lead the conversation yourself.

I see this with guys who are really nervous or want to pass the lead over to her - they ask a bunch of questions for the purpose of probing for conversational material. It's very obvious to women, because they've seen basic uncharismatic average men do this to them many times.
I know a girl likes me and she doesn't know what to say when she starts asking me boring logical questions. When the questions change to deep curiosity - she likes me more and is chasing me at a sprinters pace.

Women think us men are doing this too - when we ask them questions, because women themselves do this with men they like. They begin asking boring questions when they're flustered then they begin asking alot of deep curious questions when they're head over heals with curiosity.

I don't answer almost any of women questions, none if I can get away with it. I learned that from very attractive women. Why do they attractive women not answer questions?
Because men use their answers to shape themselves into the guy she thinks they want. They use her answers against her - so she lies or answers just to see if he believes it or just can't be bothered thinking because it's boring.

Women can't disagree or reject your statement - she then chooses to respond, of her own free will. If she doesn't or she wants to not respond - she didn't refuse or reject your action, because you didn't ask her for anything.

Someone sent me this the other day, because I've been saying this for a long time:

Zan Perrion - Why Make Statements, Never Questions

I don't like the statements he makes, but the principle works.

 

[POB]

Mod note: @Brassfacedwhatever is perma banned.
I deleted all his latest entries because he was just trolling people to fish for flame wars.

As a reminder, if you think a guy is a troll, please DON'T FEED HIM.
Instead, flag his ass so the mods can take action.
May take a while, but sooner or later the hammer comes for all that ask for it.
If you need more info about bans, check here

 

[Francis]

You get to know women so much more and organically when you make stimulating statements

Gotcha! Makes total sense.

Much appreciated @POB the enforcer and the others for your time put into modding.

Now if only I could temp ban myself... hang loose

 

[Glow]

Thank you for your response @Glow

I will review in detail and resist engaging in replying until engaging with the outside world. I don't like to leave long helpful posts people have put time into writing with a simple like or small response. But it is very much appreciated. One of the only things I know about you is you've winged with Teevster, so I trust you very much (hey look, social proof...) Lol

Cool. Sorry if i came ind a lil hard. it was meant to provide detailed input to your post and giving you a direction for better approach to your own growth.

Parting is such sweet sorrow with more interesting points from @James Cruse ... So cool to see this sort of discussion with you older guys. The point about using questions is interesting since I also view any questions from a girl as chasing, or at least a fairly noticeable indicator of interest.

Questions CAN show interest, they dont have too. But Dont be afraid to show interest. Be conscious of how and when. Aka you can Just balance a question that signals interest(it can be a powerful escalation move if used right) in your escalation flow and use them as a part of a momentum of things which i outlined before on how to escalate which i noted you saw. As an example I provide a very powerful escalotory question in the link https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...tions-to-get-to-know-women.26425/#post-150745

See if you can guess which one. I use it/have used it massively after i have created an "its on moment" to verbalise the vibe and make it real for her - articulate that its on so that she doesnt just feel it but its confirmed. .

also for more understanding - If you eg combine questions with a screener frame/vibe it creates pushpull sending mixed signals. etc. which is another tactic to confuse her/give emotional rolle coastering.

 

[Glow]

Cruse:
Your argument about questioning and elicitation conflates poorly executed elicitation with the technique itself.
And you mention relation to nlp which is one source for some of it. which is irrelevant if it works(and its but one source). I see no viable argument that provides much to sustain your points on elicitation and questioning.

On the womens responses part and and on women will not answer honestly to values - their responsestyles are very different dependent on where she is mood and state wise. Harsher ones like you mention or being dishonest has a larger propensity to come if she is in a more defensive avoidance state. Its not a general response. Also when shes in those states - we can adapt to it and engage her accordingly. Also noone ask about values. Its more of a what brought you to choose this line of work or alike which is part of a flow.

We should just agree to disagree. No need to continue.

**Schrugs**

For others to give a bit of examples of usage:
- Bacchus used golden questions as a core part of his DG lay model which is was of the most effective ones out there. His default night game opener was "how is your night going" which many of us used back then in sniper game leading to lays.
- Zan perion who is mentioned uses questions and interuptive questioning and has argued for curiosity as key drivers too.
- Julien in his PIMP game asks 5 meh questions "Are you xxx?" "where are you from" what do you do? BUT he shifts vibes in it. Just like questions shot from a screener base can create a pull push effect. It hits girls groups and girls like a bomb if you field test it(i did and it became a strong hit-them-with-punch type sequence) and know your basics (lockins, vocal power, presence etc).
- i can easily manage gold level hooks with questions and elicitation which has been observerved in field eg by teevster back in LRs.

Also from our community (all tribal elder level):
- Skills uses qualifying questions calling them central to lays at times.
- Will_v uses questions - see below link.
- DOWHATWORKS uses some - see below link.
For a list of questions (with the last 3 gents and me amongst others) with a lil more efficient "how to do questions" check https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...tions-to-get-to-know-women.26425/#post-150745

i could go on.

One key point is: it's how you deliver and what frame you're in. Questions from a position of presence and vocal power hit differently than questions from an anxious, chasing frame.

Anyways - slight derail here to explain some dimensions that took a deeper dive. Back to OP & the topic of "Using descriptive, emotional language to arouse".

 

[James Cruse]

Cruse:
Your argument about questioning and elicitation conflates poorly executed elicitation with the technique itself.
And you mention relation to nlp which is one source for some of it. which is irrelevant if it works(and its but one source). I see no viable argument that provides much to sustain your points on elicitation and questioning.

Why question with better & strong alternatives?
If you can make EVERY question into a statement that's better than the similar question you would otherwise ask (as I do) - why would you ever need to use a question?
At that point, questions just seem needlessly low effort and logical in comparison to statements.

Why Males Oppose Statements over Questions
I've recommended using statements over questions (as Zan recommends in the video above, as did a surprising recent article by Chase say the same thing) - and guys opposing it have a variation of responses like you're having.
But most of the who are defensive about questioning eventually admit the same thing, so we'll go directly to that point;

"Making statements rather than questions is TOO HARD for me, it's takes alot of thinking and being strategic along with alot of practice. Asking questions is just simple, easy, logical and automatic for me. I don't need think too much with asking questions, I can ask them in my sleep. It can be alot of effort to make statements, rather than questions. I ask deep questions too, even though normal average guys do this"

- or some variation of those reasons for why they like questioning.
But these same guys admit that when they do actually make statements; tt does get much better, longer, more honest and more surprising responses from women that they didn't expect and couldn't have even thought to question her on.
Making statements is like a version of a very insightful question on steroids.

Professional Questioning is relegated
I make statements and avoid questions at work with clients - when you ask a new client (or old one) too many questions, they begin thinking you're somewhat incompetent or inexperienced or don't have anything of value to offer or say. This is with professional MEN in a professional workplace setting.
Professional men will give you some grace with a 2-3 questions, but eventually they think you're lost or don't know what you're doing or trying to corner them into a place they don't like or don't want to be.

Whereas making statements offers them value, and allows them to add-on, open them up to choose to get to the heart of what they want and gets me alot more detail (if I'm strategic) of what value they want and how I could offer them value professionally.

Questioning as a sales techniques was a fad started in the 80's and 90's sales books (as was "objection handling") but has mostly been abandoned now and relegated to beginner-friendly and good for training, but not professional or for the experienced. It's now a dated method that very few people use.

The Average Guy Always Questions Women
Women are even less forgiving of men questioning in seduction. Women associate questions (no matter how "high level" it is) with being a normal unseductive average guy who's being overly logical and doesn't know what to say/doesn't want to lead the conversation. Every average guys questions women alot, even if those questions seem deeper and more strategic.

When men ask questions - women put them in the same category of "average unseductive man" and boring logical underwhelming guy.
Men love questioning because it's so direct and logical - and easy for them to do. They don't have to think too much - which is why it's so common and popular with average guys to revert to. It's default mode for all average guys to revert to question mode.

You Don't Understand Questions/You're not good at questioning
The retort I always get from guys is,
"No, you're not doing questioning right James. I ask HIGH LEVEL/quality/intense/not normal/thought-provoking questions" - or some variation of that.

Questioning = Chasing (no matter how anyone tries to reframe it). We know this is the biggest signal of chasing and interest from women.
Questioning = Curiosity = Tension = Weakness and NEEDING something from her = Needy

We all know women don't like men needing something from her, being needy and chasing her and we also know women don't like guys who are tense over some information about her. She thinks, "why does he NEED to know this, why does he even care? That's not important or interesting" or worse "he's trying to ask questions so he can communicate what he thinks I want"


Lack of Incentive or Motivation to Answer Honestly

On the womens responses part and and on women will not answer honestly to values - their responsestyles are very different dependent on where she is mood and state wise. Harsher ones like you mention or being dishonest has a larger propensity to come if she is in a more defensive avoidance state. Its not a general response. Also when shes in those states - we can adapt to it and engage her accordingly. Also noone ask about values. Its more of a what brought you to choose this line of work or alike which is part of a flow.

Women MAY not answer questions honestly because they're under pressure and often feel cornered. It's not a guarantee for their dishonesty, it's just much less likely due to lack of incentive or motivation.

I personally don't like when people ask me personal questions, it's annoying and not a real conversation - it restricts the conversaation into a tight box, even with insightful open ended questions.

- i can easily manage gold level hooks with questions and elicitation which has been observerved in field eg by teevster back in LRs.

Also from our community (all tribal elder level):
- Skills uses qualifying questions calling them central to lays at times.
- Will_v uses questions - see below link.
- DOWHATWORKS uses some - see below link.
For a list of questions (with the last 3 gents and me amongst others) with a lil more efficient "how to do questions" check https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...tions-to-get-to-know-women.26425/#post-150745

Appealling to Authority doesn't really matter when the principles outlined above stand for themselves. Nobody truly cares what authority says what if their results are better with making statements instead of questions.
Chase already made an article about this recently, again as mentioned above.

So for anyone who wants to give statements a good try (as well as the sexual key system) - they will find out for themselves how not asking questions and making statements gives them superior results, but will require some intentional practice and work.

For anyone reading this - men only defend questioning because they WANT to do it because it's easier and less work and less mental energy to do. Same with elicitiation. They're not defending it because they've gotten good at making statements and decided that questions are superior, nobody recommending questioning has done that. It's the exact same in professional sales and consulting.

I'll make a full post on this soon.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Subcommunication is more important than worrying about which method to use.

you can ask questions and make statements in unattractive ways that makes her roll her eyes, or you can do both in ways that makes her curious about you and wet for you.

What you saying is often more important than the exact manner in which you say it.

Sometimes I ask questions.
Sometimes I make statements.
Sometimes I let my touch do the talking.
sometime I just ignore her and look deeply into her eyes until she blushes and giggles like a little girl.

Knowing what you want to subcommunicate and what you DONT want to subcommunicate and when to communicate it will often be more important than the exact manner in which you do it.

Just my $0.02 cents.

carry on.

 

[James Cruse]

Subcommunication is more important than worrying about which method to use.

you can ask questions and make statements in unattractive ways that makes her roll her eyes, or you can do both in ways that makes her curious about you and wet for you.

Just in case you missed it in the above messages when I discussed what exactly questions sub-communicate (compared to statements):

Questioning = Chasing (no matter how anyone tries to reframe it). We know this is the biggest signal of chasing and interest from women.
Questioning = Curiosity = Tension = Weakness and NEEDING something from her = Needy

We all know women don't like men needing something from her, being needy and chasing her and we also know women don't like guys who are tense over some information about her. She thinks, "why does he NEED to know this, why does he even care? That's not important or interesting" or worse "he's trying to ask questions so he can communicate what he thinks I want"

When men ask questions - women put them in the same category of "average unseductive man" and boring logical underwhelming guy.

Whereas making statements offers them value

I make statements and avoid questions at work with clients - when you ask a new client (or old one) too many questions, they begin thinking you're somewhat incompetent or inexperienced or don't have anything of value to offer or say. This is with professional MEN in a professional workplace setting.

they can answer on her terms and it feels (to her) like she's investing in you, unprompted by you. While at the same time, she doesn't feel like you're chasing her or being logical or panic asking her questions because you don't know what to say or don't want to lead the conversation yourself.

I see this with guys who are really nervous or want to pass the lead over to her - they ask a bunch of questions for the purpose of probing for conversational material. It's very obvious to women, because they've seen basic uncharismatic average men do this to them many times.

I know a girl likes me and she doesn't know what to say when she starts asking me boring logical questions. When the questions change to deep curiosity - she likes me more and is chasing me at a sprinters pace.

Women think us men are doing this too - when we ask them questions, because women themselves do this with men they like. They begin asking boring questions when they're flustered then they begin asking alot of deep curious questions when they're head over heals with curiosity.

Women can't disagree or reject your statement - she then chooses to respond, of her own free will. If she doesn't or she wants to not respond - she didn't refuse or reject your action, because you didn't ask her for anything.

And many more.

I'll write a more complete post about this coming soon.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Just in case you missed it in the above messages when I discussed what exactly questions sub-communicate (compared to statements):












And many more.

I'll write a more complete post about this coming soon.

So I’m assuming you think questions like these are really weak, right?

me: How long have you had a bf?
Her: two months or so
Me: so no kids and not married?
Her: nope!
Me: How often do you and him go out?
Her: maybe a handful of times

 

[Ratata]

Sorry couldn't read the whole thread, but some thoughts occurred to me.

Can a good book turn you on? Well... of course it can! If you give it time, and you have the patience to read it. Probably different things turn men and women on, but ... study up, and I'm sure you can come up with something for your favourite target group, whichever that may be.

Use a good model, such as... Save the Cat by Blake Snyder and soon enough you'll be churning out one banger after another. (Betcha didn't see that coming!)

But... Whether that will make you bang more chicks? Idk... Kind of doubtful, really, but you do you! Do it right, and you WILL earn a ton of money from it tho.

Real story: A friend of mine started writing screenplays, and I gotta admit I do envy his life right now; posting regular poolside pics sipping champagne with hotties in Hollywood! Dude did great for himself, and to think that he doesn't even know game! All he knows is to write good screenplays... So, like, it's a little convoluted, but - yeah - it's pretty much getting him laid, in a very roundabout way...

I mean, it's totally possible to use only words to seduce. So that's why so many PUAs resort to it. Good old verbal game. SS or whatever else will make you feel like you're a wizard. Instant confidence. And we all know confidence is sexy. (No matter the real forces behind it.) But then, is it the words, or the confidence, that turns her on? Or the weirdly interesting wizardry?

When it comes to a girl, you just need time to tell her the story, so that you can elicit the emotions verbally. But... IMHO this is horribly slow and convoluted, and you're basically hoping that there won't be any interruptions while you do it. And you're hoping that you can hold her attention the entire time too, which is no small feat. And ... You're only using WORDS when you've got a ton of other channels to use, such as... Well, your eyes, for one. Do you dare to really meet her gaze in a loving and sympathetic way? Or do you forget that you're looking into her eyes when you're busy being a word wizard? Then there's your inner world, and how that also affects her mood, due to mirror neurons. If you get into that outcome independent state where you're enough, and you have enough - that's really sexy to girls for whatever reason. Because they really love chill dudes who don't "want" anything, or dudes who has it all. Because if they do, it must mean that they have something worthwhile I suppose...

I mean... Have you ever read my words and laughed? (God, all you who come here to comment "no" go away ok! SHoo!)

So I made you FEEL something! (GAYYY!) So, of course you can try to manipulate the subconscious with your words, both your own and your conversational partner's. But my point is, there are so many other channels or mediums that you can also use when you have your whole body, and your inner world, at your disposal. The question is, are you able to set yourself free in that way where you can do that unimpeded?

Ok, so those are some questions you may or may not want to ponder. Go out and try NLP. Natural Language Pr... Oh wait Neuro Linguistic Pancakes. Something something programming. It's great fun!

I'm not a great listener to song lyrics, but... I mean, really juicy good song lyrics, don't just rile out some weird poems. They visualize things, and conjure up memories of feelings. Physical feelings. Or mind feelings. But feelings none the less. Those things fly past the subconscious with scary effectiveness.

Also, when girls talk about feelings. Like, really listen to what they are saying. Then - like the little spy you are - copy it and use it against them! Every time they mention something physical related to feelings, write it down. Because that stuff is GOLD. Then use it against them.

I just had ice cream yesterday. With tiny chocolate chips. Mmmm... Like half melted. It was so good it made my toes curl.

Like... Who comes up with shit like that? Girls. Girls do! Who would say that their toes would curl from just eating ice cream? That shit is gold. And so are butterflies in the stomach. Use this stuff.

I also want to give a shoutout to using borderline needy verbalization if you really want a connection with her. Very good during intimacy, or sex. It's not needy when it's during sex, or something... Or maybe be a little careful with this lol. The trick is to say just enough so she'll open up and say even more binding things to you. That's when you know you've got her.

 

[James Cruse]

So I’m assuming you think questions like these are really weak, right?

me: How long have you had a bf?
Her: two months or so
Me: so no kids and not married?
Her: nope!
Me: How often do you and him go out?
Her: maybe a handful of times

Yeah, boring average guy and logical. I had to read it 3 times because my attention wandered each time. We can all see that's boring and the woman is bored answering.

But you keep questioning women all the way into the bedroom mate.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Yeah, boring average guy and logical. I had to read it 3 times because my attention wandered each time. We can all see that's boring and the woman is bored answering.

But you keep questioning women all the way into the bedroom mate.

 

[Skills]

Just in case you missed it in the above messages when I discussed what exactly questions sub-communicate (compared to statements):












And many more.

I'll write a more complete post about this coming soon.

brah! i don't understand, i know you are good at game, but i don't understand why you go in circles sometimes with dumb shit...

it depends on the situation, sometimes you make statements, sometimes you ask questions (the questions sometimes is to frame things, and set her up), i mean you calibrate to the situation and the scenario...

Sometimes is to set them up, sometimes is to flow in the convo... this is silly... Sometimes to qualify them...

spike/velasco use to ask "Are you looking for something serious" cause he knew gen z girls hate that question to set them up for sex... for example...

just lmao like wm just set you up! facepalm.... just lololol

 

[Skills]

Yeah, boring average guy and logical. I had to read it 3 times because my attention wandered each time. We can all see that's boring and the woman is bored answering.

But you keep questioning women all the way into the bedroom mate.

brah

 

[James Cruse]

Lol how is that's the same as what you wrote here?:

me: How long have you had a bf?
Her: two months or so
Me: so no kids and not married?
Her: nope!
Me: How often do you and him go out?
Her: maybe a handful of times

I bet you don't even know what I was doing and why - then you cut off the the end (revealing the purpose).

Did pointing out that you didn't understand where I outlined the sub-communication of questioning lead you to this?

Well done for poorly plagiarising what other people say again as you usually do, without knowing how or why they're doing it, that's seems like your formula for almost every post you make here.

Sometimes is to set them up, sometimes is to flow in the convo... this is silly... Sometimes to qualify them...

spike/velasco use to ask "Are you looking for something serious" cause he knew gen z girls hate that question to set them up for sex... for example...

just lmao like wm just set you up! facepalm.... just lololol

I have to write a full post here about questioning - the only exception for questioning is for qualifying, which I've mentioned elsewhere here many times on the topic of questioning.

Warped knows that I've said that aswell - but he has very little to say on these forums now, so he has to pull stunts.

But even when qualifying - I aim to avoid it completely and it's never best practice, ideal or worthwhile. They would be the only questions I ask in an entire interaction and move from qualifying questions to another form of qualifying after that.

Chase already wrote a post about limiting/avoiding questioning, so has Zan - so perhaps you're aiming this defensive vitriol in these comments at the wrong messenger of this idea.

 

[famineofcrows]

Julien used to advise ONLY questions lol. And lots of them. (see his 'tengame product'. He never pushed, and maybe even disliked all of the usual PUA stuff. 'cold reads'. 'make statmements' etc. And for my own testing, I never saw any benefit in any of that stuff, personally. In fact, I could extrapolate that to pretty much all PUA tech, including using emotional language lol. But won't go there)

But There's many ways to skin a cat.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Lol how is that's the same as what you wrote here?:




I bet you don't even know what I was doing and why - then you cut off the the end (revealing the purpose).

Did pointing out that you didn't understand where I outlined the sub-communication of questioning lead you to this?

Well done for poorly plagiarising what other people say again as you usually do, without knowing how or why they're doing it, that's seems like your formula for almost every post you make here.



I have to write a full post here about questioning - the only exception for questioning is for qualifying, which I've mentioned elsewhere here many times on the topic of questioning.

Warped knows that I've said that aswell - but he has very little to say on these forums now, so he has to pull stunts.

But even when qualifying - I aim to avoid it completely and it's never best practice, ideal or worthwhile. They would be the only questions I ask in an entire interaction and move from qualifying questions to another form of qualifying after that.

Chase already wrote a post about limiting/avoiding questioning, so has Zan - so perhaps you're aiming this defensive vitriol in these comments at the wrong messenger of this idea.

no wonder you don’t think questions ever work…

And I don’t know why you are pointing to Chase (didn’t you call that an appeal to authority earlier?) since you don’t use anything he teaches.






Ohh I get it now. You aren’t using his stuff you are using yours but he stole it from you.

Is there anyone you don’t accuse of stealing your stuff lol.

 

[James Cruse]

no wonder you don’t think questions ever work…

Lol wow you're really salty about me pointing out that you didn't understand what sub-communication was implied in my replies.

That was to get rid of a cockblock as a challenge - but you wouldn't know about that. Is anyone (me included) recommending to seduce cockblocks FIRST before the women we actually want? Do you think we should be seductive with cockblocks?

How long did it take you to go back through 2 years of messages to find that - and it's about a cockblock and like my game hasn't gotten better. It's getting sad for you now, but go back 5-10 years of my writing mate, that'll be less sad and you might learn something.

And I don’t know why you are pointing to Chase (didn’t you call that an appeal to authority earlier?) since you don’t use anything he teaches.

I'm glad Chase came around to the "avoid questions" recommendation, which I think is somewhat of a departure from his previous method, from what I can see. If I remember, Chase recommended no more than 2 questions, and I agree with that recommendation.

no wonder you don’t think questions ever work…

I think we know why you're doing this, as I mentioned above:

men only defend questioning because they WANT to do it because it's easier and less work and less mental energy to do. Same with elicitiation. They're not defending it because they've gotten good at making statements and decided that questions are superior, nobody recommending questioning has done that. It's the exact same in professional sales and consulting.

I'll add to my own words above;

I think some guys get threatened in the seduction community when you assert that some (or many) of the things they normally do in seduction sub-communicate (this is just to make it obvious to you and I don't have to spell it out again, like I did above) - are passive, weak, overly logical, boring and ultimately unseductive actions that normal average unseductive guys do with women because it would make alot of their experience and advice seem less impressive and at the same time, explain some bad reactions and some rejections in their past interactions with women.

I also think alot of the same guys find it very difficult or impossible to keep questions to a minimum, which is likely part of the reason why you're saying this. That's the main complaint when I recommend this to students - but seduction isn't easy because we're setting ourselves apart from normal average non-seductive men.

I think this same difficulty can be applied to the Sexual Key method we've been discussing - it's a simply but very challenging method to master and that's why there's been some opposition to it as a skill recommendation.
Some guys don't want to do hard things to get better skills for seduction.

But you go on badgering women with questions all the way to the bedroom mate, don't let anyone here stop you.

I think avoiding questions like the plague (unless used very sparingly in qualifying before moving on) is very simple and uncontroversial in seduction but people seem to get very reactive to it. I'm writing about this for guys actually practicing seduction here.

The same does not happen with "objection handling is salesy and over". Both of these topics are highly discussed in current sales training aswell.

 

[Francis]

Lots of emotion in this thread. Keep it up!

@Glow I'll get back to you! Resisting KJ responding. Pushes into the field are always appreciated.