LR--  Virgin Battle

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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I met this woman back in October, on a Saturday, at a club. She was with a group of friends and it was about an hour to closing time. I was mentally dreary due to grinding and making out with another woman who I was not able to pull but who I banged the following monday through a day2. Anyway, with this girl I started it off with:

Me: "Hey, what's up. You guys look pretty cool. How's your night going?"
Her: "Why do we look cool?"
Me: "Because your dance moves are the best right now."
Her: "Ah, ok."

This isn't word for word but it was something like that; it was actually a rough start. I had no idea this girl actually liked me. She was very stiff about everything, with one word responses like "Ok"or "Yep". It was really frustrating, but she wouldn't walk away or anything. I was actually considering walking away at one point, but another player was talking to her friend and was doing a pretty good job so I felt motivated by seeing that. After an hour the bar closed and we were all forced to leave. Outside I tried getting her number, but she said, "Sorry, I can't." then left with her friends in an uber.

Eventually I ran into her again at the beginning of December at a different club. We started off great, chatted for a long time, though nothing very physical happened. Due to her being a little stiff with physical touch, I felt stiff as well! But personally, I don't like being too forceful with physicality; I take physical touch a little too gradually maybe. Anyways, we set up a day 2 and I got her number.

On the Day 2, I picked her up from a place she was studying at, took her to a town center area, walked around with some coffee, then took her directly to my place (still no kissing or anything yet). Here at my place, clearly a sex location, I was hoping similar to my previous two lays that I could start physicality and get the bang since she seemed so casual about coming back to my place. However, this was not the case. I brought her onto my bed, but she was still very stiff when it came to her face facing mine for a kiss. I could tell she didn't want to kiss instinctually by the vibe I was getting so I didn't go for it. Instead, we laid together and kept chatting. Through our little chat, lying on my bed (feeling so close to the bang!), I learned that she is a college freshman, a real feminist (i.e. she reads a lot of feminist material, serious about empowerment and all that), carries pepper spray which she proudly showed me, and had never had sex before. The latter I initially doubted, but later through repeated jokes and playing off as if she wasn't a virgin, it became clear to me that she really was. This is hard to describe I know. This girl is also very hot, although she is asian so some of ya'll might not be into that. I am part asian so I don't mind whatsoever. Through our chat it became increasingly clear to me that time was running out, she would have to get dropped off at her home, and I would not be getting the lay. This was a bummer, but I accepted it and kept my distance in order to not spoil anything.

Tonight was my Day 7 with this girl; in other words, the sixth date. Each date I came closer and closer to her opening up physically. I didn't make out with her until our fifth date(Day6)!!! In the past I would have quit by now, but I've decided it is best for me to face whatever experiences come my way and to keep going while there is still hope, so me continuing on these dates is the expression of that maxim. At the end of our previous date I learned something very critical - I asked her "are you a shy person?" and she said yes; this is a very simple question (which she had initially said "no" to when I asked her it before) but it unveiled a lot about her, and coupling this with the fact that I knew she was submissive and wanted to be dominated, I realized as I dropped her off at the end of the Day 6 that I really needed to take charge physically, something I'm not entirely willing to do unless the girl gives me clear signals because I don't want to appear "rapey" to be honest.

On this Day 7 (tonight) I tried fulfilling my goal of raising the "take charge" bar and pushing things as far as I could. We watched a movie together at my place, and at the end of the movie I escalated the physicality, gave her a hickey (which she moaned very loudly to), made out, sucked her tits, and rubbed her pussy through her jeans. However, despite her moaning she wasn't willing to take her pants off!!! It appeared I had went to far, but her moaning made it seem so clear to me that she wanted to get fucked! I was very aggravated at all of these mixed signals flying at me, especially since they were occurring at such a critical do-or-die part of the seduction. She never said "I don't want to have sex" or anything like that. But she did say that she had to be home at 12:00AM, and that it was nearing that time to leave. fuck! Apparently she was very concerned about what her parents would think, since after she started seeing me they had become very strict with her, expecting her to be home pronto. I like to think this was what was on the back of her mind, but I don't know completely.

So after all that crazy heat, we got up and I drove her home, leaving her movies at my place. During the drive we made plans for another day this week and she told me how strict her parents were.

When I got home I had planned to do some approaches at a club, since its a friday night and all; but since the weather was shit, I decided to take it easy, play the guitar and think about what i'll do with this girl. Tomorrow night I'll sarge instead.

When I hang out with her again I will definitely take her straight to my place, and I know she knows this and is cool with it. From there, should I go straight for the kill? I know she knows I'll try to fuck her. I'm thinking I'll play it cool, then escalate as far as I can like tonight until I can rip those pants off and bang that puss to the moon, though this girls feminist card and pepper spray identity does worry me a bit. Its clear she wants to be dominated, yet she parades around with qualities that lead men to not want to risk dominating her. Jesus.

The only thing that could doom it all is if she texts something like "I'm sorry but we can't see each other anymore" since, after all, I sucked her tits and went pretty far with her so my intentions aren't hidden whatsoever, and I got her ass home way too late so her parents probably hate me. However, I did build a lot of "Narrative" with her in ToddV terms since we have a lot in common (I honestly wouldn't mind this girl becoming a gf since she doesn't party a lot, is smart, is very level headed, and is hot; I think her feminism is a shallow belief and isn't that obstructive). She seemed unphased and normal about seeing each other again this week, no different than the last date set ups; so maybe this near-miss had no negative affect on her. But you never know.

PS: She regretted not giving her number when I asked for it the first time, her friends were like "why didn't you give it?" but there was a deeply personal reason why she wouldn't, so i can't blame her.

PSS: When we made-out, she was moaning a lot. It was clear she was getting horny from it, which leads me to think she was very protective of making out and kissing (even during tonights date!) out of fear of where her desires may lead her.

- Chrance.
 

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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I met up with the Virgin this past weekend. I immediately went for the kill, necking her, making out, etc. I took off her shirt, sucked her tits. This time I knew from the get-go that we would have a lot of time to fuck. However, as I was going down to take off her pants she would keep pulling them back up, saying "No, I'm not ready". This girl was moaning to every time I slapped her ass, choked her neck, and sucked her tits, yet taking off her pants was still a no-go. I tried over and over again to get those pants off but nothing would work. I really pushed things as far as I could with her without setting off any #metoo alarms.

So, once again, sex was not possible. Dammit. Furthermore, as we were laying down together afterwards, she told me.
Her: "You know I'm a virgin right?"
Me: "Sure"
Her: "And I'm not looking to lose it."
Me: "Sure"
Her: "This is the farthest I've ever gone with a guy before."
Me: "really?"

I made it clear to this woman that every time we hanged out I would probably try to fuck her. I told her this because at this point, given what we had done already, I felt I had nothing else to lose. We continued to lied down and chat together. Being around her is very tense because every time I go silent in order to think, she asks: "What are you thinking???" which is annoying as hell.

As we were driving home she told me that it bothered her that I would try to fuck her every time we met, but its hot at the same time. Then we made plans to hang out later this week.

The story continues. I'm going to keep pushing this set as far as possible.
 

Velasco

Modern Human
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I immediately went for the kill, necking her, making out, etc. I took off her shirt, sucked her tits. This time I knew from the get-go that we would have a lot of time to fuck. However, as I was going down to take off her pants she would keep pulling them back up, saying "No, I'm not ready". This girl was moaning to every time I slapped her ass, choked her neck, and sucked her tits, yet taking off her pants was still a no-go.

You can make girls horny, but that alone won't get them to take their pants off, if they don't feel allowed to fuck you. This is the premise behind Alek's Female State Control (FSC) concept. I recently made a post on kissing/making girls horny here:


basically, you want to establish a social frame + sexual frame (which is this:

1) To make her horny (by letting her know I'm a pure sex provider). And 2) make her feel allowed to act on it (make her invest (tell me stories about her doing adventurous/risky things/reveal her past relationship experience/what she likes about men/favorite sex position) and expose the similarity bias (just agree with her a lot basically. and then share a relevant story so that she feels like I "get her") as much as possible/set non-judgemental frame). That's my game.

and THEN when you go for that slow passionate kiss, she desperately wants, she will not resist further escalation attempts because NOW she not only WANTS to fuck you, she feels allowed to.

so with this girl I see a great opportunity to make her feel allowed to act on her desires by bonding on this:

So, once again, sex was not possible. Dammit. Furthermore, as we were laying down together afterwards, she told me.
Her: "You know I'm a virgin right?"
Me: "Sure"
Her: "And I'm not looking to lose it."
Me: "Sure"
Her: "This is the farthest I've ever gone with a guy before."
Me: "really?"

Her objection is virginity. Her frame as of this moment is that losing it, will make her less valuable to men/society. So in order to get what you want, you'll need to reframe being a virgin as low value, and how losing it to you will actually raise her value. Which is actually true.

So here, I would stop escalating. Chill the fuck out and just ask about her previous relationship with that guy (and then contrast myself from him through anything negative she says about him (possessive, aggressive, needy). Just agree with her. and state how those are shit people and how you feel bad she had to go through with that. NOW. Nuanced point, my friend. The guy who you are contrasting yourself from in this situation, is someone who DID NOT manage to fuck her. So, you do NOT want to be associated/similar to him in any way possible. IF, the guy she was talking negatively about (treated her like shit, never texted her, etc) was someone who DID fuck her, and she was obsessed with, then you'd obviously want not want to hide your similarities from him. Because those are EXACTLY the kind of guys she loves and fucks). Then show understanding; you understand why she did not want to lose her virginity to her previous partner. Now that you've done your job of pacing her reality (which is crucial to make people susceptible to be influenced by us), lead/reframe virginity as a bad thing. Share your story about how you lose her virginity. What you learned from it, and all the amazing benefits you got from having lost it (that she may also value: confident gained knowing that when you do get married to your one true love, you will know how to give them, multiple orgasms, from having sex with a wide range of people from different backgrounds. and you will know whether or not you are sexually compatible with her before marrying her. Rather than if you had stayed a virgin, and took a shot in the dark, and then ended up married to someone who you THEN realize is not sexually compatible with. And then having to spend the rest of your life with that person. Because you know that is how couples get trapped into shitty sex lives. living life with "what if".). Now once you see that she has fully grasped the implication of this reframe, slowly start physically escalating again, while turning her on with your words, and she will not be able to resist.

"To get desired action it’s not necessary to alter a person’s beliefs or attitudes or experiences. It’s not necessary to alter anything at all except what’s prominent in that person’s mind at the moment of decision" - Robert Cialdini.
 

Fuck This

Cro-Magnon Man
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2,092
One nice thing about older women I enjoy is no more virgins and less bullshit around having sex.

I enjoy having sex versus teaching sex.
 

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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You can make girls horny, but that alone won't get them to take their pants off, if they don't feel allowed to fuck you. This is the premise behind Alek's Female State Control (FSC) concept. I recently made a post on kissing/making girls horny here:


basically, you want to establish a social frame + sexual frame (which is this:



and THEN when you go for that slow passionate kiss, she desperately wants, she will not resist further escalation attempts because NOW she not only WANTS to fuck you, she feels allowed to.

so with this girl I see a great opportunity to make her feel allowed to act on her desires by bonding on this:



Her objection is virginity. Her frame as of this moment is that losing it, will make her less valuable to men/society. So in order to get what you want, you'll need to reframe being a virgin as low value, and how losing it to you will actually raise her value. Which is actually true.

So here, I would stop escalating. Chill the fuck out and just ask about her previous relationship with that guy (and then contrast myself from him through anything negative she says about him (possessive, aggressive, needy). Just agree with her. and state how those are shit people and how you feel bad she had to go through with that. NOW. Nuanced point, my friend. The guy who you are contrasting yourself from in this situation, is someone who DID NOT manage to fuck her. So, you do NOT want to be associated/similar to him in any way possible. IF, the guy she was talking negatively about (treated her like shit, never texted her, etc) was someone who DID fuck her, and she was obsessed with, then you'd obviously want not want to hide your similarities from him. Because those are EXACTLY the kind of guys she loves and fucks). Then show understanding; you understand why she did not want to lose her virginity to her previous partner. Now that you've done your job of pacing her reality (which is crucial to make people susceptible to be influenced by us), lead/reframe virginity as a bad thing. Share your story about how you lose her virginity. What you learned from it, and all the amazing benefits you got from having lost it (that she may also value: confident gained knowing that when you do get married to your one true love, you will know how to give them, multiple orgasms, from having sex with a wide range of people from different backgrounds. and you will know whether or not you are sexually compatible with her before marrying her. Rather than if you had stayed a virgin, and took a shot in the dark, and then ended up married to someone who you THEN realize is not sexually compatible with. And then having to spend the rest of your life with that person. Because you know that is how couples get trapped into shitty sex lives. living life with "what if".). Now once you see that she has fully grasped the implication of this reframe, slowly start physically escalating again, while turning her on with your words, and she will not be able to resist.

"To get desired action it’s not necessary to alter a person’s beliefs or attitudes or experiences. It’s not necessary to alter anything at all except what’s prominent in that person’s mind at the moment of decision" - Robert Cialdini.

Thanks for the in depth response.

The techniques and reframes you mentioned to turn around her value in her virginity - i'll be sure to use these next time we hangout. She'll be on her period this time around any way, so its a good time to cool down, do something else not at my place, and chit chat. One thing I know though is that she isn't an idiot, so when I bring up virginity I have to be smooth about it otherwise she may just think "Ah, he's trying to get me to not care about it. gotcha." In fact, the whole time we were lying together after everything settled down, I was thinking of a clever way to get around her virginity, but because of my lack of creativity at the time, and her constant questions, I wasn't able to think of anything smooth.
 

MrRapo

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Wow, I admire your persistence. I would have giving up on day 2. You inspire me to be more persistence in a calibrated way for the reference.

Tonight was my Day 7 with this girl; in other words, the sixth date. Each date I came closer and closer to her opening up physically.

Im curious what kind of dates you planned with this girl. Or did you planned them all at your place?
 

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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I met up with Virgin on Sunday. We did not go to my place or a sex location. She’s on her period anyway. Instead we strolled around a town center, joked around, got dinner, then drove somewhere else and hanged out at a cafe. In this whole timeframe there was some basic kino like hand holding and hugging but no kissing; there were a lot of stories, I was in a pretty good social mood. At one point I finally brought up, as @Valesco mentioned, how I lost my virginity and how good it felt to not have that weight on my shoulders (we actually talked a lot about our kinks so far). She said that since she is a woman there is a difference due to societal expectations, and I agreed with her. But I didn’t push as far down that route as I should have, and instead switched to another conversational thread. I probably could have done that virgin reframe in a much better way, but at the time I was literally just chilling and talking. We will hang out again later this week. This next time I’ll bring up losing the “burden of virginity” again but as subtly as possible. The date after that we will likely do something at my place (ideally a horror movie), where I will go for the kill again.

This whole time with this woman, though frustrating, is so new to me that it wouldn’t be wise to throw away the opportunity. I know I’m falling down the boyfriend-route, but given that I wouldn’t mind her being a gf, I am not too concerned despite being unideal. My patience has definitely been tested, but that’s alright. The mindfucks she is putting me through are unusual, but welcoming.

On Saturday i did two approaches, the first a warm up, and the second a comment on the girls dance moves - “your dance moves are spretty cool, I can respect that”. This dance girl I spent the rest of the night with, but couldn’t pull due to her two fat friends following us around. So her and I will get coffee tomorrow. This girl should be a lot easier. If I can bag her soon, this will give the satisfaction and endurance necessary to keep my head above the Virgins teases and games
 

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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Wow, I admire your persistence. I would have giving up on day 2. You inspire me to be more persistence in a calibrated way for the reference.



Im curious what kind of dates you planned with this girl. Or did you planned them all at your place?

I don’t game this girl whatsoever over text, unless I find something funny to send. We do all planning in person, usually as I’m driving her home or right as I drop her off. Some dates were activities I recommended, others were things she recommended. I’m treating it very similarly to what you’d do if you had a girlfriend. How would you plan hangouts with her? It’s been the same kind of thing. She doesn’t play games over the phone, she answers my calls and stuff, so setting up and meeting up has been a breeze, just as if she were a gf.

The type of dates are:
- walk around mall
- walk around city
- go to club
- visit meuseums
- chill at my place and do nothing but talk
- get dinner then walk around and look at funny stuff in stores (like in good will hunting)
- watch movie at my place
- sit in parking lot and talk
 

Velasco

Modern Human
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At one point I finally brought up, as @Valesco mentioned, how I lost my virginity and how good it felt to not have that weight on my shoulders (we actually talked a lot about our kinks so far). She said that since she is a woman there is a difference due to societal expectations, and I agreed with her. But I didn’t push as far down that route as I should have, and instead switched to another conversational thread. I probably could have done that virgin reframe in a much better way, but at the time I was literally just chilling and talking. We will hang out again later this week. This next time I’ll bring up losing the “burden of virginity” again but as subtly as possible. The date after that we will likely do something at my place (ideally a horror movie), where I will go for the kill again.

So here we have ourselves a new objection:
Societal expectations for males and females with regards to sex.

Before your hang out with this girl, I want you to read this post by Alek:


Specifically the last 2 gambits: The Sex is unfair gambit and The Dark Side gambit (emphasize on the part on how men wish to control female female sexuality by putting restrictions on it, judging women for their desires and not accepting them for who they truly are).

And smoothy bring back this topic, now that she won't be on her period. If you didn't know: you don't need to memorize his gambits word for word. Simply use these gambits as inspiration, and create something tailored to your situation.
 

Chrance

Cro-Magnon Man
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Since my last post here I hanged out with Virgin Girl three times, the first two which were not at my place or a sex location but were just us hanging out at places in the area. We did some flirting and a little kissing, but that was all. Our vibe together has improved. The last time we hanged out, this past Sunday, we hanged out at my place again. After chilling on my bed I went for the kill again. I started off by simply throwing her around on the bed. She's really into spanking, slapping and being roughed around - "It hurts, but its hot." At this point I fully accepted that she liked to be dominated, so I grabbed her sweater and pulled it off. She didn't give much resistance. Then after a little kissing and sucking her tits (which are nice though she thinks they are not), I unzipped her pants and took those off. For the pants she gave a little resistance, but not like before where she was grabbing to keep them on (I know this sounds rappy, but if you were there at the time you'd understand the context. The big key was that she was smiling while saying "No, not now!"); this time she said "Oh my God. Stop! Wait!" and that was it, still with a smile of excitement on her face. So I ripped her pants off for the first time and there we were, both of us in just our underwear, with her still being a virgin.

(FYI In this time period from lying on the bed to getting her pants off there was a lot of pauses for conversation, which gradually led to the pants and clothes coming off)

pants off and us in underwear, we continued kissing. I tried to go for fingering her but she resisted, so after a few attempts I stopped, chilled out and we talked. Then after the conversation heated up I went back at her pussy and was able to actually finger this girl, and when I did she moaned really fucking loud. Apparently it was actually painful with just one finger. "Hold on, stop, it hurts!" she said, so I stopped. This actually freaked me out a little - my finger hurting her pussy - then I went back at fingering her, but with more trepidation. Each time I fingered her she would be cool with it for a few seconds (enjoying it I assume), but then she would physically resist, saying "Ow, that hurts, stop!" There were times when I really couldn't tell if it actually hurt (due to her moaning the whole time I was spanking and kissing her), if it was just her moaning as usual, or if she was avoiding things escalating further to fucking. It was kind of like a boy-cries-wolf situation where she would moan, but I had no idea what her moan would mean. Its kind of funny if you think about how merely misinterpreting a moan can get you into legal trouble.

So after several more fingering attempts I decided that it would be a no-go for sex. If my single finger is causing her trouble, imagine what my whole cock would do! I really wasn't sure how to escalate from here. Like, I'm causing her some pain and I don't want that. I know my cock would cause her even more pain and I also knew that I could simply tear off her panties, slip on a condom and ram my guy in, but that wouldn't seem right. So I kicked back and we lied almost naked beside each other on the bed until it was too late and she had to go home. She stayed out extra late for me, against her relatives wishes, so I'm guessing the escalation isn't a real issue.

I'll be seeing her again soon. I'll likely take her back to my place again, escalate, tear off her clothes, then be back in a similar "Oh that hurts!" situation. This time around I'm thinking I'll finger her like before but take it more slowly, do it for a longer duration, and then increase the number of fingers until it doesn't hurt her anymore. But I literally have no experience dealing with a girl whose pussy is hurt by a finger. Also, she still values her virginity to a degree and I didn't consciously do anything to actively undermine her desire to preserve it, so that is still an obstacle, though it is clearly dwindling each time we hang out, given that this time I took off her pants and fingered her whereas last time I couldn't even get her pants off. This must be what it was like laying babes 200 years ago lmao.

Anyone have any experience dealing with not hurting a girl's vagina and making it a smooth ride for her? I definitely want her to have a good time the first time she gets fucked.
 
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