What are the expected results with only the basics of seduction?

Witcher

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Hello everyone,

Recently I was reading Alek's article on The Purpose of Advanced techniques, where he basically explains that for most guys only the basics are necessary to have a good sex and intimate life. On the other hand, advanced techniques are for people who want to get some specific results, faster lays, threesome, etc...

So this made me think. What are the realistic results I should expect with only the basics since I'm still just using them? So I don't "feel guilty" for not having some results I should only aim for when I'm at a more advanced level using more advanced material?

For example, First date sex is a normally expected result with the basics only? Or is getting the girl in less than a month of meeting her in a maximum of three dates a more realistic result with the basics only?

I also know that this may be relative to many other factors but I think you got the idea!

Below you can find some quotes from the article that may

The basics are what you need to have down to get laid (and occasionally a girlfriend). For the majority of men in the majority of situations, the basics are more than enough.
Many very good seducers stick only to the basics because their goal is rather simple: bang women. Other men like me have more complex goals.

Advanced techniques are suited for everything beyond the basics. For example, what if you want multiple girlfriends? That might require more advanced techniques and concepts. When you want to move beyond the basic goals of seduction – getting laid and eventually perhaps getting in a more committed relationship – it will most the time but not always require advanced techniques.

For example: a threesome – arranging one of those usually require some more advanced techniques. Yes, you can also seduce two girls individually with the basics, but bedding both at the same time requires a set of more advanced techniques – especially if you plan on doing so with a one-night stand.

What if you just want to get laid but you would like to seduce a girl in less than fifteen minutes? In such cases, bold moves, intense calibration, and very good screening skills are usually required. This all falls under the category of advanced techniques.

Is it necessary to have these down to get laid? No. But what if your goals go beyond simply getting laid? Some men, for example, get a kick out of fast pulls resulting in sweaty sex in dirty bathrooms (I used to do that a lot back in the day), so more advanced seduction techniques will be what the doctor ordered. If you are not the type of guy who likes wild bathroom pulls with women you have just met on the dance floor, then of course you should disregard the advice tailored for that goal.

Thanks!
 

BigPapa

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1 date bang is quite rare in general unless she really really likes you . 3-4 dates is the norm usually , but you have to escalate always otherwise the girl will slip through your fingers :)
 

Tony D

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For myself, it's 50/50 I sleep with her the night I meet her. Rarely do I have same day, daygame sex. It happens for sure, but nightlife is where this happens more often. In general if she comes home with me from a party (or I to her place) there's going to be sex 90% of the time. Usually we both want this by that point. I don't know about online dating or meeting girls from social circle and going on coffee dates.

I used to do high wire trapeze tricks to get women who weren't sure about me into bed same day, but I'm old and don't try very hard for it. Learn how to screen them out early if they don't want to have sex right away. You can usually tell. Say you met her at a bar, you're very physical, maybe making out, and you say "I'm trying so hard to be good," "You should come over to my place tonight." When she's like, "Okay!" then it's pretty obvious. I don't need to run NLP routines anymore.

Though that's not saying I won't have to go approach, open, interact with 100 women to find her if it's straight solo man, cold approach. That might take a couple nights out, or it might happen on the first try. There's no way to measure it.

I've been out with a lot of very talented pickup artists and seen all of them go home alone, many times. They have amazing skills with women, but that doesn't mean they have super powers. They just work harder at it than most and keep their chins up.
 

Seppuku

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When I studied Girls Chase contents back in 2012 / 2013, I initially found myself overwhelmed with the so many little things and tricks and techniques described. How could I possibly remember all that?

In reality, it turned out much more simple. The amount of technique I am actually using is, at the core, very small. I do not need all the arsenal described - just a small subset. For instance, one thing I never really (consciously) use is getting verbal compliance. Another thing I'm not doing is sex talk and sexual prizing. You could also argue that there are also things I am doing which would be deemed "not ideal".

Yet I managed to make it all work anyway.

My style is based on overall sexy mood, frame control and lots of sexual tension. Other guys find that using verbal compliance, or sexual prizing, works well for them and build their own styles based on that.

I guess what this means is that there are many different ways to make it work. Find the way that works for you by trying different set of tools as described in Girls Chase, and develop your own style that fits you.

How many dates? Well, the driving factor is, how consistently can you get a girl to come to a second date? A third date? Or more? Personally, when I started I found that it is hard to get the second date consistently. I lost many girls to that. You will also find many similar experiences described in the field reports here. Typically: "why in the hell doesn't she text me back? I though that the date went well???"

It does improve with experience, though. Five years down the road, I am able to get the second date consistently. So now I can play with that in my dating. I see how it goes, and I make a judgment call, do I pull now or on second date? It also depends on the time available in front of me.

But if you're not experienced, the big factor to consider is: will you see her again on a second date? The window usually expires quicker than you would like. If you are able to get the second date consistently, then go for it. It alleviates "retention problems" and "LMR". Your call.

However, be also aware that if you delay sexual escalation attempt to the third date or more, your overall Lover frame will be much weaker. The more you wait, the more you set yourself in the Boyfriend zone, and even Friend zone. You are in fact making your life harder than it needs be.

In terms of expected results: you will know you're there when you are able to get laid consistently. That means: when you apply yourself to it, you can get laid regularly with new girls, consistently, over a prolonged period of time.

Good luck!
Seppuku
 

greenleaf

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When I studied Girls Chase contents back in 2012 / 2013, I initially found myself overwhelmed with the so many little things and tricks and techniques described. How could I possibly remember all that?

In reality, it turned out much more simple.

That's interesting - One thing that I couldn't wrap my head around a few years back when i'd read a tonne of material and started watching infields, was how, the PUA would talk about ALL of this stuff, but then, in his infields, he'd always fail to use about 95% of it lol - (skipping qualification, not negging, no cold reads, not using prizing, not kinoing etc etc) all of the things he said was important! IN fact, they also seemed to even break a fair few of their own rules. It's like they all seemed to basically re-write the mysterymethod because it sounds complicated, but then, in practice, they would fail to implement everything in their own course and kind of 'wing it' tbh. But still pull. I guess it's a problem of something that isn't really based on science etc and we'll never really know if everytime someone pulls, it's not simply a matter of her thinking he's hot
 

Tank

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Yeah actually there's a lot of bullshit going on in that regard. Some gurus will write about techniques and strategies and just have very plain conversations and just escalate. Most of the (defunct) daygame.com in fields and Tom torero is like that, all of the rsd stuff. There are some decent tactical in fields but it's rare.

Thing is these guys are just on their smv and letting it carry through. Smv of course includes vibe and all that, or fundamentals basically as it is described here.

Of course there is a limit to how much fundamentals can improve so beyond that, to get higher leagues you need game.

But to answer your question luckily these guys do document their statistics. With basic game you should get girls at your level of smv/fundamentals at about a 1 in 50 to 100 approach rate. 2nd date lays are the most frequent outcome as to timing.
 

Seppuku

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That's interesting - One thing that I couldn't wrap my head around a few years back when i'd read a tonne of material and started watching infields, was how, the PUA would talk about ALL of this stuff, but then, in his infields, he'd always fail to use about 95% of it lol - (skipping qualification, not negging, no cold reads, not using prizing, not kinoing etc etc) all of the things he said was important! IN fact, they also seemed to even break a fair few of their own rules. It's like they all seemed to basically re-write the mysterymethod because it sounds complicated, but then, in practice, they would fail to implement everything in their own course and kind of 'wing it' tbh. But still pull. I guess it's a problem of something that isn't really based on science etc and we'll never really know if everytime someone pulls, it's not simply a matter of her thinking he's hot
When you get more experience, you don't pay attention to rules that much, and go by your instinct. Some of these rules you already apply automatically without thinking. For instance, I don't need to focus on not showing neediness. I don't need to focus on my sexy voice tone, or control my smile. My kino is flowing smoothly. I am also much better at picking all the subtle signs she is sending - and don't need to keep focused on that. It all means that I can just relax from rules, be present in the date and enjoy the moment, and go by my instinct.

So I would say "rules" are mostly important when you start, when you have little reference points, and need something to guide you.

The abundance of techniques and routines etc... is just a reflection of the fact that there are more than one way to succeed. You don't need all of them. Experiment, and find out which ones work for you, and use them. Once you manage to make it work, it becomes your own personal style.
 
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naturalmikey

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your demographic is gonna play a lot into it. i realized this about a month ago. i was talking to a 28 year old very attractive highly educated woman. she was socially what you would call advanced. like i switch i started spitting the kind of game i didn’t even know i still knew. i guess what you would call advanced game. in this situation more advanced game (social skills) is more beneficial because she is more advanced.

for younger women, less intelligent women, and women who are really into me i find anything more than basic social skills, leading, mixed signals, good eye contact, the basics... to be unnecessary and even counterproductive.

i would also say that anything that happens quickly involves very little advanced game. five minute pulls in my experience are spontaneous action and just require a quick reaction time.

the place i’ve really put advanced game and use of language to work is in relationships. i like younger girl and they respond very well to validation based game. this is magnified once they’re invested in you.

i think it’s good to learn your demographic and what works for you. then get better at it. you’ll become more advanced over time. learning other peoples methods and tactics might work for you and they may not.

to answer your question how far can natural game with a understanding of fundamentals and female psychology get you? pretty far. a lot is going to depend on things like your lms, your iq, your ability to free associate. also most pua based female psychology was developed pre ethot era. if you like young girls id get as much experience with them as possible because they’re a different animal than the ones written about in the pua community. if you’re into 26+ chciks the pua literature should give you a good understanding of those chicks.
 

Velasco

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for younger women, less intelligent women, and women who are really into me i find anything more than basic social skills, leading, mixed signals, good eye contact, the basics... to be unnecessary and even counterproductive.

TIL: talking about sex, setting sexual frames, and reframing her negative ideas about sex is counterproductive to getting sex.
 

naturalmikey

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TIL: talking about sex, setting sexual frames, and reframing her negative ideas about sex is counterproductive to getting sex.

lol half these young chicks are ethots and don’t really have negative ideas about sex. just be normal bro. seriously just be normal. but yeah be non judgmental and joke around about sex and the thirsty dudes cashapping money to her or her friends if not her.

i’ll actually elaborate. anything you try to do comes off as low value. just be yourself, unless that means being a needy bitch which in your case i’m sure it doesn’t mean that. try doing less. i think you’ll be surprised at your results. anything you do to try to control the outcome is in my opinion counterproductive. feel free to disagree. maybe you need tactics. i don’t.
 
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Velasco

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lol half these young chicks are ethots and don’t really have negative ideas about sex.
Yesterday:
sometimes you'll come across girls who don't have any stigma around fast sex, and only need to be aroused in order to fuck. See Teevster's article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/women-west-now-require-more-arouse TLDR: The less sexually repressed the women are (like in the U.S.), the less impact resistance busting techniques (tech that makes her want to act on her arousal) will have. So you won't need to run your 'making her feel allowed to have sex with you' routines, and can pull right away.
If I so happen to run into that other half of young chicks who aren't ethots (fingers crossed) than ya imma be reframing her negative ideas about sex lol.
just be normal bro. seriously just be normal
Just be normal @Witcher. The reason your not getting results right now is because your not being normal.
but yeah be non judgmental and joke around about sex
Ya so talk about sex and reframe any negative ideas she has about sex (if she not an ethot). Got it.
anything you do to try to control the outcome is in my opinion counterproductive. feel free to disagree. maybe you need tactics. i don’t.
Maybe you rely on luck and it "just happening". I don't.
 

naturalmikey

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@Velasco i see what your saying. i really don’t meet many young girls who are worried about being thought of as a slut though. are you having much success?
 

Velasco

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i really don’t meet many young girls who are worried about being thought of as a slut though

I work with young girls (youngest are 18). This nonjudgemental routine of mine is from a real life scenario that happened when I was talking with a couple young girls fron work last year.

I love how I can just talk with you about this stuff so freely and you don’t get uncomfortable or anything (commitment bias). like the other day I was sitting outside at a restaurant talking to these girls about sex fantasies (painting a picture). and they were like all really into it. talking about dick sizes, what they like don’t like. then this random guy just started walking near us to enter the restaurant and then they all got like really quiet. because they didn’t feel comfortable again. it was interesting to see. girls aren’t really allowed to talk about this shit just out in the public so open cause they’ll get judged. and it kinda makes me feel bad for you guys that you have to live a sort of double life. be the fake good girls around certain people and then be your real self (painting bad girl as her true self) around other people. you can never really be yourself 100% of the time.

let her talk...

but at the same time i think its also necessary. because like if every guy knew how much girls loved sex and talking about sex then i think it would create massive chaos. we would have like every guy trying to get sex with girls right away not being smooth at all and then getting angry at chicks for not giving them sex right away. so girls have to kind of lie and be like “I’m not that kinda girl” shit. just to protect themselves from those dangerous loser guys (she can’t use the “i’m not that kinda girl” excuse to me because I expressed that I’m aware of the double standards) thats why i think girls really appreciate guys that are like low key about this shit.

In fact, all the routines I run are real life scenarios or true statements about myself. They are situations where I displayed traits that are conductive to fast lays. All I've done is tweaked them a bit for seduction purposes, and orchestrated a way to get me talking about these scenarios to display traits I want to talk about.

I agree with you that there are less girls than before that give a shit about being perceived as slutty. last week, while I was talking to this one chick, her friend straight up came up to me and said in my ear, "can I hold your cock?". So I know you ain't gonna run into many girls that care about being perceived as a slut (especially in a club at 2 am) compared to the previous generation of young girls. But that doesn't mean all young girls are like that.

are you having much success?
Nah I'm still a virgin.
 

naturalmikey

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@Velasco sure the “advanced” stuff works. i dabbled in it long enough to come to the conclusion that it was unnecessary on a lot of chicks. it also took a lot of going out to calibrate it, at least for me. i find lifting weights to be more effective than learning “advanced game.” and op asked basically what the ceiling is for going out and practicing just fundamentals. i see no reason a capable person couldn’t achieve the same results with fundamentals as he could with advanced game. if the advanced stuff works for you, i think that’s really great. i’m glad i worked on it because it helped my understanding of language. i’m also sure i use some advanced concepts. i just put literally zero thought into it and a lot of the stuff i learned on my own before realizing people had been doing the same stuff for over a decade. i don’t think there’s anything that can replace experience. also some are going. to be naturally better than other due to the factors i mentioned.
 

Velasco

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sure the “advanced” stuff works.
Agreed...
i dabbled in it long enough to come to the conclusion that it was unnecessary on a lot of chicks.
there is literally no need to run sexual frames
and what you define as unnecessary and counterproductive to getting Same Night Lays is talking about sex, setting sexual frames, and reframing her negative ideas about sex (if she has any). but then you say
yeah be non judgmental and joke around about sex
i also mock men giving them money. i’ll offer them stupid shit like a billion rupees and have often used the line “i have fat stacks of indian cash.” kinda make that life a joke to suck them into the reality of the moment and the fact that this is real life.
When you joke around about sex, don't judge them when they talk/joke back about sex, and make fun of beta providers....the underlying frame your setting in these interactions is that of a sexual one (vs platonic). Another way of setting a sexual frame to an interaction, is having a conversation about sex...without the joking around aspect. Which is my preferred method.

i see no reason a capable person couldn’t achieve the same results with fundamentals as he could with advanced game.

There's too many examples of guys with maxxed out fundamentals, basic social skills and good eye contact who go home alone (or with a girl way below their potential) because they're not out there running that stuff you call unnecessary.
i’m also sure i use some advanced concepts. i just put literally zero thought into it
Uses advanced concepts while being unaware of using them, yet tells people they're counterproductive and unnecessary...
 
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naturalmikey

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Agreed...


and what you define as unnecessary and counterproductive to getting Same Night Lays is talking about sex, setting sexual frames, and reframing her negative ideas about sex (if she has any). but then you say


When you joke around about sex, don't judge them when they talk/joke back about sex, and make fun of beta providers....the underlying frame your setting in these interactions is that of a sexual one (vs platonic). Another way of setting a sexual frame to an interaction, is having a conversation about sex...without the joking around aspect. Which is my preferred method.



There's too many examples of guys with maxxed out fundamentals, basic social skills and good eye contact who go home alone (or with a girl way below their potential) because they're not out there running that stuff you call unnecessary.

Uses advanced concepts while being unaware of using them, yet tells people they're counterproductive and unnecessary...

you think talking about sex is advanced? also you think there are no guys running advanced concepts going home alone?

what i’m saying is being 100% intentional and strategic in everything you day is overkill. i just go out and talk. a lot of guys are doing the same and having great sex lives. you can be a real person and do great. you can also be a fake pickup robot and go home alone.
 

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Tribal Elder
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you think talking about sex is advanced? also you think there are no guys running advanced concepts going home alone?

what i’m saying is being 100% intentional and strategic in everything you day is overkill. i just go out and talk. a lot of guys are doing the same and having great sex lives. you can be a real person and do great. you can also be a fake pickup robot and go home alone.

This is a pickup forum. Go and stir up shit somewhere else.
 

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Tribal Elder
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Here is a detailed response to your obvious trolling (the forum was a very calm place as long as you stayed away).

you think talking about sex is advanced?

You can talk about any topic in an advanced or a basic way. Of course you know this.

also you think there are no guys running advanced concepts going home alone?

Sure, before they master them, or if they lack fundamentals. Then of course nothing will work.

what i’m saying is being 100% intentional and strategic in everything you day is overkill.

What has this to do with running advanced stuff in your day or night game sessions?

i just go out and talk. a lot of guys are doing the same and having great sex lives.

Sure you can. A lot of guys also do this and don't get results or get the same results as everybody else as they do not have any advantage over them.

you can be a real person and do great.

You can be yourself and be an incel or chode also, it is rather common.

you can also be a fake pickup robot and go home alone.

Nobody here advocates being a robot, in fact the most technical guys here are the least robotic. You think Mystery, Tyler, Gunwitch etc come off robotic? You can easily find footage of the two first.

so natural game is no longer pickup? lol thanks for the update i’ll keep crushing it my way though thanks.

Natural game is a shitty marketing fad. Not that I care whether you run it, but you are not allowed to come here and trash people who want to rise above that level.

 

naturalmikey

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not trolling. it’s my experience. i’m in la. anyone who wants to meet let me know.
 
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