When You Know You'll Lose A (Physical) Fight

[Hue]

Last Thursday I was out with my homie and we put ourselves down to play the next game of pool. When it was our turn my boy put the quarters in and I moved to the side to rack the balls. The guys playing before us were a drunk squad of 8 guys, all hooting and hollering during the previous game.

When I started to rack the balls, this dude about twice my size comes up and says "woah woah woah buddy, what you doing there?". I tell him I'm next to play, and both confirmed with his friend and put my quarter down to indicate the next game (I'm a regular here, and this is the common practice). He physically moves me and then his friend starts to rack up the balls for their game. I push him aside and approach the kid racking saying, "ay bro. you guys get next game. you put your quarters down that's how it works here" and he blatantly ignores me and continues to do it. The larger fellow puts his hands on my shoulders and goes "bro bro bro, shhhhhh *puts his finger to mouth, then sticks out his tongue smiling". There was some more back and forth but I don't remember it all.

I turn to my friend who apparently has also been trying to reason with some of these motherfuckers and I can tell by the look on his face he's having just as hard of a time as I am. I look at the larger guy, ask for his name, then tell him to go fuck himself and flip him off. I turn back to my friend and say "let's get the fuck out of here, there's eight of them and two of us".

The disrespect was abundant, but I know that if I'd stayed it would have grown into more physical shit, and we would have lost the fight. I decided that these guys aren't worth our time, and it's just a game of pool so we should move on. Still, I can't help but remember my anger in the moment, even as I'm typing this. I"ll admit part of this is because I'm a regular and usually feel pretty in control of what's going on around me when I'm here.


So I pose the question,

When you will almost certainly lose in a fight, using words is useless, and are being blatantly disrespected, what do you do?

I've heard some people argue that you should just swing anyways out of sheer principle, but when I look at this from a consequential stance, it seems like the negatives largely outweigh the positives. Thoughts?


Hue

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Yeah, I'd probably swing on them. I got in a 1v8 fight last summer and came out with no significant injuries, but I probably got lucky. Then again, I'm crazy and actually was laughing when 6 of the 8 started moving towards me on the street after I'd jocked the other 2 in the face in the club.

I won't say fight them, because that would be irresponsible, but I would have fought them.

Don't follow my example, though. Don't get beat up. Don't get injured. Don't get killed. Don't get arrested.

Hector

 

[Sandman]

Hue,

Have you tried jerking him off?

https://youtu.be/h7zTIlE5Rw0

Kidding aside, I see no upside in getting beat up. 2 on 8 is an unwinnable fight. I understand where you're coming from, I used to have an anger problem, would get into lots of fights etc and disrespect like this would set my blood boiling but then I realized that whenever I get angry, I hurt myself the most. So I stopped being angry (well mostly anyway) Let that anger go. Meditate.

 

[Michal]

The only thing to be done to get your way (play the pool) if you are in a losing situation like this is leverage what you have, which I assume would be knowing the owner or the staff and just tell the little kid racking the balls that he either stops doing whatever he is doing and let you play or you make the owner to kick them the fuck out. The manly thing would be to fight them but I doubt you would leave without reperocussions or that the big guy would go "woa woa bros chill, I respect him fighting back like a man, leave him be, he is not a bitch". The smart thing would be to just avoid physical conflict, it is not worth it. But this is pure animalistic dominance - more dominant male comes in and just takes what he wants, there is nothing stopping him really - except the quarters rule and the one reinforcing it. Thing is, even if the owner just forced them to leave you play, it would feel pretty feminine. I have done that once in a similar situation and I felt like telling my parents that my brother is bothering me. Punching them in the face feels better. But if we are talking about achieving your goal, use what is available. Why do you think the beta monkeys gang up on alpha when he is injured but not when he is in full strength.

 

[Hue]

Hector,

I remember reading that somewhere on here. Props. I've got some weight training & self-defense to learn before I possess that level of confidence in fighting. Something I've been meaning to take more serious of recent, actually.

It would have been a really bad night to get arrested haha. I lost my ID on vacation and reverted to a fake I had.

Sandman,

Yea that's how it felt. I hate feeling powerless like that. I do meditate regularly and it helps in a number of ways. That's actually one of my professional hustles at the moment as well. Namaste (;

My only objection is that in the past I've been deemed a pushover because of not wasting my energy like that and there are times where violence may be necessary. Conflict in general should be avoided, absolutely, but one can get lost in the ideology that they're "above" the situation when really it might have created a better result to act. And like basically everything it's nuanced.


Michal,

That went through my head because I do know the owner and all the bartender's and we generally have a good relationship, but that's exactly why I didn't - I would have felt like a pussy tattling.

And ya, drunk people don't think in terms of the right thing to do. You can ask a drunk person if what they're doing is wrong and they'll do it anyways out of compulsion.

 

[uForia]

Depends on the context and what kind of culture you live in. If it's a working class area with the women being familiar with and more attracted to the fighter archetype instead of the lover, you'd throw a solid punch in the face and get the hell outta there. We're really making a tradeoff between your physical health and your social reputation. Being tough is good and sexy in this environment so you can't just walk away like a little bitch without being humiliated. At the same time you don't want to get beat up so you have to do something. The police may or may not come but it's a working class area so this stuff is generally expected.

If it's a middle class or higher area in a cosmopolitan city, then you throw up an idgaf and confused attitude and walk away and make the conclusion that low effort no reward is better than high effort no reward in the law of least effort. You can frame the situation as being smart enough to keep yourself safe away from drunken guys, and this intelligence is more sexy to women than being brutish. Not to mention that throwing a punch will definitely get you condemned to getting arrested in these areas by the police. It's really about the calibration.

 

[Hue]

uForia,

The context is a popular college bar where a lot of non-greeks go. I'd call it middle-upper class. Thanks for the article you provided that was helpful, as was the acknowledgement about calibration.

Sandman,

Couldn't open that link originally when I saw it (I was in class), but OF COURSE! Jerking/sucking him off would show my dominance and provide preselection, right?! lol



After wrestling with this, I'm glad I regulated my emotions enough to not swing at him, and in the future I should assess the situation better before entering it. There were other tables to play pool at, and I probably shouldn't have thought "let's go play with those guys!" after seeing their drunked debauchery before we called next game. As utopia put it it's really about calibration and it's an in the moment thing if you decide fuck it and swing or decide to let things go.

Thanks for the replies fellas,

Hue

 

[Cacc]

My only objection is that in the past I've been deemed a pushover because of not wasting my energy like that and there are times where violence may be necessary. Conflict in general should be avoided, absolutely, but one can get lost in the ideology that they're "above" the situation when really it might have created a better result to act. And like basically everything it's nuanced.

Why should conflict be avoided? Fighting isn't as big a deal as most people make it seem.

What are the chances you die in a fight? You can die while driving to work. You can die by getting hit in the head by a coconut.

If you're not a fighting person, that's fine. Just walk away. Maybe it's just me, but I hate feeling powerless, so in that scenario even if I would have lost, I'd have fought.

And even if you got the ever living shit beat out of you, you wouldn't feel like the submissive bitch you probably felt like when you were walking away. When you walk away, your ego and confidence takes a big hit. When you don't, it feels amazing.

Next time, just fight dude. It's fun and exhilarating. And the people who say they are above fighting are pussies that are masking their weakness into virtue signaling.

 

[Hue]

Cacc,

Like I said I think it's about calibration (as uForia pointed out) and context. While this was pretty disrespectful what I lose is a dollar in quarters and playing a pool game against a bunch of blacked fucks. What I would gain is more respect (maybe, it depends on the person) which I already have in multiple circles in the bar - and many who weren't even fhere. I don't care if I lose respect from these strangers.

When you walk away, your ego and confidence takes a big hit.

As far as self-respect I've come to terms with my decision for this particular situation and respect my own decisions.

Though there's other times where you should throw hands (ex. you or your people are in danger / your respect is being "tried" as to whether or not you fight/put up with disrespect). I just don't think this was one of those times necessarily.

And the people who say they are above fighting are pussies that are masking their weakness into virtue signaling.

IF they're dogmatic about fighting in this way, and IF the place the decision is coming from is cowardice, then they're probably just being a pussy. Again, I personally think it's nuanced.


Hue

 

[Cacc]

Personally, I don't believe it is about what others think of your decision that is important, more so of what you think about yourself after the situation.

You can come to terms with your decisions after it's all set and done and rationalize it, but it's mostly bullshit.

The truth lies in what was your mental state during and recently after it happened? If your dominance levels didn't take a hit, then congrats, you're a baller.

But if they did then you should have found a way to win. Doesn't have to be by fighting them either.

Of course, there are going to be certain times in life where you'll take a confidence hit and there's nothing you can do about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I deem keeping a very high opinion of myself of utmost importance and will never willingly take hits to my dominance if I can help it.

Because having a very high opinion of oneself translates into literally everything else you'll ever do.

At the end of the day, dominance hits has a lot to do with how you frame a situation. Just don't lie to yourself

Cacc

 

[Hue]

You can come to terms with your decisions after it's all set and done and rationalize it, but it's mostly bullshit.

This would be the case if you were acting out of cowardice.

In my situation, I wanted very much to swing at this guy, but my intuition told me this was not a battle I should take part in. I inhibited my emotional response (anger) and made the my decision to leave that I found rational because of the projected outcomes.

Rationalizing here would have been bowing your head and being all "okay okay you got it man", then after the fact saying "I wanted to swing at him". Sure you could say I submitted, I suppose I did, but I choose my battles.

Inhibiting cowardice (fear & anxiety) would be telling yourself, fuck the fear, and swing (getting over yourself - same goes for approaching women). Inhibiting anger would be taking a deep breath and stopping yourself before things take a turn for the worse.

So the drunk dudes gained dominance over their bubble around the pool table *applause*. I left and returned to a social circle where I have a dominant footing and had an enjoyable rest of the night.

Nonetheless I do plan to take up Muay Thai and get more serious about body building this upcoming summer so that when violence is sparked I can possess the physical and strategic confidence in that arena. Many of folks have written the benefits from learning self defense and it's a practice I've been neglecting.

Thanks for your input. It helps me see my thoughts better to write them out.


Hue