FU 1st Date with Lesbian

[PinotNoir]

Not sure if this is the right section, so feel free to move...

Sorry for long post, feel free to skim through...

Back Story
Same girl from my "Lesbian" and "Friend Zone" posts. No reason to read those as here's a short summary...

Met this girl around new year's (either a week before or after, can't remember). We were both pretty smashed. She told me that she was a lesbian, and we kissed at the bar we met. I was kind of on the fence, so I basically just friend-zoned her and did friend things with groups. After getting to know her more, I realized that I was into her, so I asked her out on a date. She said yes, and we went on our date Friday night.

Pre-Date
The day before I read a random assortment of GC blog posts, mainly about topics to discuss with women and being sexy, etc. I've never had sex on the first date. I don't think I've ever kissed on the first date either (depends on what you consider a "first date"). So, this may sound stupid, but I shaved my pubic hair. I was using this as a psychological tool to basically tell my brain that I'll be having sex and putting the moves on. However, logistics are shit for me right now. Both of us live with our parents (I'll be moving out soon). I was thinking I could do the car thing like Franco always suggests. I at least wanted to get a kiss.

I call her Thursday to set up date. She had already agreed to the date a few days ago, but said wasn't free until weekend, so that's why called Thursday. I decided to play pool as the date and dropped a couple of bars. She turned down both bars and suggested another. I knew from reading GC that this was probably bad. To counteract it when she proposed a time, I told her that I couldn't until another time, and she agreed to that. I didn't tell her this, but after pool, I was already deciding to suggest lounge or movie. I just needed a place to be more alone, and it's too cold to get a girl to agree with walking around outside.

Friday, I text a few hours before the date just to make sure it's still on and ask if I need cash for pool. She said yes to both but that she has cash and will pay for it. I've been trying to pay less at dates to try new things and not be the "provider," so I thought this was good.

Date
Pool
Bar ended up having a cover and a band. She apologized for this, but I told her it was really no big deal. It was pretty empty inside, so this was good. We both grab a drink and head to the pool table. I was going to kiss her on the cheek when first met up, but got cold feet and didn't do it. Dumb.

First, we start out with small talk. I ask her if work went okay today, blah blah. Luckily, I had already had something prepared for deep-diving. We had talked about Out of Body Experiences before, but didn't go deep into it at all. She has them sometimes when takes her meds for ADD. As far as conversation, I think this went really well. Also, there was plenty of stuff to talk about since lesbian. I asked about how parents felt when came out. I really tried to focus on feelings and emotions here. Then from here I threaded off topics related to it. Then when those threads died went back to asking more about family, etc. I got her talking really well. Not to toot my own horn, but based on this date, I think I've gotten really good at deep-diving and being a conversationalist with women. I revealed some things about myself of course, but I always steered the focus of the conversation back on her, and I made a light joke or remark when got too serious and then went back in.

As far as billiards, I would do it again. But, I think you need breaks and need to have something planned after like I did. We would play 2 games and then take a break and sit together at the bar listening to the band. Then we played again. It's difficult to deep-dive while playing because focused on game. Also, it's even difficult to get eye contact. On my turn, I'd basically take my time and look at her eyes. Then I may ask her something. However, the breaks between games when sitting were surprisingly amazing. I guess you're already "warmed up," so it just felt pretty natural. She kept leaning into me and touching me or my face in a playful way, and I touched back, and this is where you get to truly deep-dive. Also, while playing, plenty of "ball" and "stick" flirting that just naturally happens.

So last game comes up. This is probably a fuck up. I say since it's the last game we should make it interesting and bet on something. I tell her that if I win she has to kiss me outside the bar. She then decides that if she wins I have to buy her a drink. Well, she got pretty intense in this game haha. I actually backed off a little just to see if she's focusing more, and it did feel that way. I realize that I'm probably screwed now as doesn't seem that she wants to kiss me. We get down to just the 8 ball and keep missing. This was really fucking intense haha. She wins though. Boo. Oh well. I go and buy us 2 lemon drop shots.

So now we're at the bar sitting again. I suggest a lounge now, as that's where I usually have my best date interactions with women. She turns it down and says doesn't want to stay out late. So then I suggest movie. We also talked about Cheesecake Factory earlier, so she brings that up again. Bad, because she's directing the date again. I agree to get some dessert at Cheesecake Factory and then to a movie. While I'm looking on my phone for a movie, she's like leaning really hard into me. I even move the phone a little towards me just so that she has to haha. We agree to see Warm Bodies and leave for Cheesecake Factory.

Cheesecake Factory
In a nutshell, I screw up conversation a little here. There weren't any awkward pauses, but I got a little logical, and I know women don't usually like to talk about logics haha. We start talking about time travel and crap. We laugh a lot, just a fun light conversation. I should have made this sexy or something, but I think alcohol was hurting my game here. I also didn't sit next to her. I should have pulled the line I read here recently about the table being a huge barrier, etc.

At the end, waiter asks if together or separate. After GC, I'm really trying the approach of not paying, but I did feel like an asshole. She told him it was separate, etc. I'm not sure if she viewed me as cheap for this, so I ended up telling her I'd buy her ticket at the movie theater to make up for her paying for the pool games.

Movie
Like I said, I pay for her ticket.

I actually liked this place better than a lounge for the "lesbian image" thing. Because it's dark, I think she wouldn't have to worry about the image of looking straight in front of people. So, I do the typical cliche thing and put my arm around her when the movie starts. We cuddle for the first half. We say little small comments. I mainly whispered minor stuff to try and get her to look at me and lock eyes. Her eyes were locked on the screen. Earlier alcohol and water running through me, so I get up and use the restroom. I come back, and she's eating some leftovers from Cheesecake Factory (snuck them in). After she's done, I just felt like she was pretty hesitant about me cuddling with her. My buddies said I fucked up here, but I actually ask her if she's okay with my arm around her. Yeah, I know this was stupid, but she did seem really tense about it. She said that no that she was comfortable. Yep, done for.

Post-Movie
We walk to our cars (right next to each other). Again, my buddies said I fucked up here, but I don't like to waste my time. I pretty much brought it up. I said that she seemed a little hesitant about cuddling and about a second date. She said maybe. I told her that I'm not 14, and it's okay to be honest. We have this conversation very flat, not like any emotion or anger going on. She says that yeah just more into women. So I'm like that's fine, can be friends. I tell her to have "pleasant zombie dreams" (movie about zombies), and we depart.

Ending
So yeah, your typical "fucked up" report. I'm still not sure how to get away without paying and not looking cheap. I need to work on that. My buddies were mad that I didn't pay the whole night. I told them that it's 2013 and that I'm trying some new stuff not to be the "provider" but the "bad boy." They don't really get it and say I fucked up. I'm just trying to change my style and approach.

I think I learned a good bit from this date, so not a total loss. My deep-diving is good, but my chase/sexual framing needs tons of improvement.

Thanks for reading.
-PinotNoir

 

[Scofield]

I remember the original topic and I think the replies were great there....you need to get her alone and make a move and hope she just goes with it. Once that starts and she stops thinking and just thinks "wow this feels good" anything can happen. If you straight up ask her...her logical mind will kick in and yeah she isn't going to say she wants you...she probably wouldn't even say that if she was straight since that's just not how girls think. It's tough when driving separately, but I usually ask the girl to sit in my car and listen to music and talk some more. If they refuse tell her there's a song you really want her to hear because it reminds you of her....usually no girl will be able to resist that. Then once in the car, you can make your move (it's a bit clunky but it should work well enough).

 

[Flames]

My experience so far would suggest you havent neccerserily fucked up.

I think it's probably not a good idea to bring up any topic about you and her, as you normally would, because she'll just reject it without thinking about it. You need to convince her that your a 'one off'/something else etc etc.. remember these girls are very emotional creatures, (more so than normal) that's why they like girls, logic goes way out of it.

Also sexually speaking you have to bring out your A game, cause if you dont she'll dump your ass and never look back.

You need to be a sexy man, slightly mysterious and edgy. If that's not your thing then don't even bother.

Also they like to keep it somewhat under the radar, so if you can't keep it to yourself then that not really going to work either.

At least that's as far as I've got as to an explanation

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

Scofield, you're absolutely right. I got to be a man and just make a move. I know I messed up here. And if I even ask for a 2nd date, ask without any type of direct/indirect hesitation of me or of her accepting. I have a problem of relying too heavily on what is "said," instead of making a move and relying on what is "done" or the result. Your car idea is golden. And if the "song trick" doesn't work, then I'll tell her I know a great place to see the moon (or whatever) together, but she has to ride with me as I don't know how to describe the route, etc. I'll think about this some more...

Flames, definitely makes sense. Just invite her out one-on-one, go for it, and see where it leads. After this 1st date, I don't think she sees me as a "sexy man" because we didn't kiss. I'm still a mystery to her though because I didn't dive in a lot about myself. I kept the focus on her or "us" at times.

As for an update, I texted her Saturday; she texted back Sunday; and then I texted back a few hours later Sunday when I saw it. I sent just a general question Sunday but haven't heard anything back from her. I think I'm completely off of her mind now. I'm not sure whether I should be persistent and call, but I don't want to come off as desperate. What you guys suggest?

I'm going out tomorrow to bar trivia with friends or out alone, haven't decided yet, so I'll be meeting some new girls tomorrow anyway hopefully!

 

[Flames]

I hope it goes well for you both,

 

[Dunking Style]

I think one cause of the FU is that you wasted so much time without doing anything.
You guys started off by playing pool at a bar for god knows how long..then sat down for desserts..then movie..
I almost fell asleep reading that..and most people probably feel the same way.

After the pool..you wanted to move to the lounge..but she refuses and says that she can't stay out late. I think she meant that she wanted to move somewhere and do something fun with you..not stay in the same bar and do some more meaningless talking. (And you can verify with the fact that she stayed for cheesecake and movie..which is at least 2 more hours after the pool by my guess)

Other glaring problems I noticed:
- Paying for the drinks(I think you set yourself up for failure here..because there's a 50% chance that you would have to increase investment with the girl without receiving anything of value back)
- Going for such a long date
- Going to a movie (where you are unable to have much 1 on 1 time to TALK TO EACH OTHER and MAKE HER FEEL SPECIAL!!)
- Paying for movie tickets (Again..you increased investment with her without receiving anything back)
- At the end of the date..you provided so much to her that you were no longer in the sexy lover category..so when you tried a move only a sexy guy would make..there was a huge discrepcancy)
- Calling her out on the things she felt uncomfortable giving you (more cuddling and 2nd date) and put yourself in a lower value than her (she controls whether you get a cuddling and a 2nd date now)
*Remember..a sexy guy has options! If it doesn't work out with a girl..there are other girls who would love his attention!*

So there it is..my honest opinion(and virgin post on the forum) of your situation!
I might come out as very blunt and straightforward..so if anything offends anyone..please accept my most heartfelt apologies.. OH..and best of luck in the future!

 

[PinotNoir]

I think one cause of the FU is that you wasted so much time without doing anything.
You guys started off by playing pool at a bar for god knows how long..then sat down for desserts..then movie..
I almost fell asleep reading that..and most people probably feel the same way.

After the pool..you wanted to move to the lounge..but she refuses and says that she can't stay out late. I think she meant that she wanted to move somewhere and do something fun with you..not stay in the same bar and do some more meaningless talking. (And you can verify with the fact that she stayed for cheesecake and movie..which is at least 2 more hours after the pool by my guess)

Other glaring problems I noticed:
- Paying for the drinks(I think you set yourself up for failure here..because there's a 50% chance that you would have to increase investment with the girl without receiving anything of value back)
- Going for such a long date
- Going to a movie (where you are unable to have much 1 on 1 time to TALK TO EACH OTHER and MAKE HER FEEL SPECIAL!!)
- Paying for movie tickets (Again..you increased investment with her without receiving anything back)
- At the end of the date..you provided so much to her that you were no longer in the sexy lover category..so when you tried a move only a sexy guy would make..there was a huge discrepcancy)
- Calling her out on the things she felt uncomfortable giving you (more cuddling and 2nd date) and put yourself in a lower value than her (she controls whether you get a cuddling and a 2nd date now)
*Remember..a sexy guy has options! If it doesn't work out with a girl..there are other girls who would love his attention!*

So there it is..my honest opinion(and virgin post on the forum) of your situation!
I might come out as very blunt and straightforward..so if anything offends anyone..please accept my most heartfelt apologies.. OH..and best of luck in the future!

No reason to apologize; I completely agree. Honesty is what the internet was made for. I made such a long date because of logistics and because I didn't plan good alternative logistics (like how to get her in the car). I didn't pay for all drinks, just the 1 shot for her. In the end, no excuses; I messed up. I posted this to learn in general, to learn how to overcome shitty logistics/odds, and to help others that may always just see LRs/etc. thinking that people are perfect here and don't also fuck up. I fucked up, and I appreciate your response man.

 

[Dunking Style]

Yeah..it definitely sucks. I think we're on the same boat here..on the logistics part.
Definitely hard to plan and pull when there are limited places to be alone.
I've made similar mistakes(a long while ago..before finding this site)..because I was clueless where I'd get some alone time to have fun with a girl..so I thought they'd work out themselves and it'd just happen. Guess they don't really work out themselves unless one of you do the work..(which is most likely the man!)
xD

 

[Flames]

Logistics is the main problem I have atm too. I get hardly any opportunities for us to be alone, but when I do things are fine. It's just a bit sporadic, too sporadic for my tastes TBH.