A Different Flavor of Social Anxiety

[Souverain]

Hey folks,

I've been struggling with a "different version" of social anxiety for the past some time and would really appreciate your thoughts. Here's some background:

Like many of us on here, I've had social anxiety since I was a kid and sought to overcome it from the day I sprouted pubes. I've since gotten quite comfortable at striking conversations with strangers and approaching different kinds of people. Although I feel some hesitation before I walk up to people, I can overcome that relatively quickly.

Over the past couple years, I've come to realize that my older social anxiety/hesitation has been replaced by a new kind. I no longer feel as much inertia before going to up to people (which is how I suffered in the past). It's now more of a low-level, underlying feeling of inferiority. I can talk to people just fine -- in fact, most don't even realize I feel this way -- but always feel like a supplicating wimp, kinda like a dog with its tail tucked in between its legs.

I have some pet theories on incidents that could've caused this behavior to run rampant in my neural circuitry but I don't want to psychoanalyze too much because most people go through these ups and downs and it's nothing really out of the ordinary.

Funnily enough, the first 18-20 years of my life, when I suffered from the "vanilla" social anxiety I often felt superior and defiant. I was a rebel and didn't really care to conform. Now it's the opposite: I'm arguably more socially polished, but now continuously suffer from the "tuck-in tail dog" feelings, despite consciously knowing I have no reason to.

Would greatly appreciate your opinions if you've overcome this/come across this before.

Thanks y'all

 

[ElderPrice]

Working on social anxiety myself.

Social anxiety is when your brain clings to negative, irrational beliefs. Seriously. That's pretty much it.

To fix, first, you need to train yourself to spot each and every time your brain has an automatic negative thought. This includes that instant, "tuck-in tail dog" feeling you describe the second you start talking to others. You say you have no reason to have this feeling, and I believe you. But from experience, I guarantee there is some kind of irrational belief you have that is causing it. Could be a belief about yourself, others, or how the world works. You'll need to find the belief in order to correct it.

Next, inform your brain that you've spotted an automatic irrational thought. Tell your brain you're not interested in irrational thoughts, only rational ones. Then, replace the automatic negative thought with a positive, rational thought.

Example: Negative thought: "Look at this cool/attractive person I'm talking to. I'm way too inferior for them and they won't like me." Replace with: "No matter what I do, some people will like me, others won't. Maybe this person won't like me, but maybe they will. Either way, it's irrational to let fear paralyze me, so I will take action."

CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) obviously involves a behavioral part and a cognitive part. By approaching strangers, you've already been doing the behavioral part. Now you just need to work on the cognitive part - the negative, irrational thoughts and beliefs.

Something to keep in mind: The neural pathways in the brain like to follow paths of least resistance. These are also known as habits. If your mind has been out of whack for decades, then there isn't a quick fix for getting your brain to stop taking the irrational, negative superhighways its been using and to start exclusively using the new, positive, rational highway you're building.

However, as long as you constantly - literally at every opportunity - catch your automatic negative beliefs and replace them with positive, rational ones, you WILL BE making progress. It'll take a while and you will have setbacks, but as long as you are committed and stick to it, you WILL successfully re-wire your brain and make the changes you want.

 

[Fuck This]

Imposter Syndrome: What It Is, How to Overcome It, and More

Imposter syndrome takes “fake it ‘till you make it” to a new level. We break down the origins of imposter feelings and how to overcome them.

www.healthline.com

 

[Egor]

So you think about your mind, your neural circuity; what about your body? Are you strong and getting stronger? The mind can only take you so far.

 

[Souverain]

@ElderPrice

CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) obviously involves a behavioral part and a cognitive part. By approaching strangers, you've already been doing the behavioral part. Now you just need to work on the cognitive part - the negative, irrational thoughts and beliefs.

Thanks for pointing this out. I think I've been focused solely on the behavioral part, especially since I spent too much time not doing shit as a kid. I expected the new/healthy behaviors to help fix my thoughts but it seems like they haven't. The challenge now is to balance the two. I guess feeling too content with your thoughts kills any impetus to act, but pushing yourself to act when you're sorta tortured by your thoughts only leads to burning out.

Next, inform your brain that you've spotted an automatic irrational thought. Tell your brain you're not interested in irrational thoughts, only rational ones. Then, replace the automatic negative thought with a positive, rational thought.

I have a decent idea about my own irrational beliefs -- where they spring from and what they tell me -- but seem to fail to correct them. They may be factually wrong but feel too real. As a fellow sufferer, I'm sure you've felt the sinking feeling in your stomach, the inferiority, that ephemeral sense of hopelessness (for a lack of a better word) and the constant simulation that tries to predict what the other person's thinking / how she's reacting. Wondering if you had any thoughts on correcting irrational beliefs when they feel too real. Is it repetition that weakens this?

@Fuck This
Thanks for the link dude. Never thought I'd consider myself to have impostor syndrome but it seems I mirror many behaviors/have those symptoms. Will do some more research on this but it looks to me like there is a strong relationship between social anxiety and this. Almost like they're the same dysfunction manifesting in different areas.

@Egor
Yeah man, been hitting the gym for a while and finishing up my post-COVID binge cut. Following one of John Meadows's (RIP) programs. This is one of the few things contributing to my confidence and keeping me fairly positive right now.

Also to y'all reading this, if you're interested in hypertrophy over your Wilks score, consensus is that Meadows has great programs. I will probably post my results at the end of the program.

 

[DarkKnight]

Go nofap.. It decreases so much of social anxiety... until you relapse ofcourse, then you are fucked for a day

 

[Rakehell]

I think this is where “inner game” comes in.

I'm arguably more socially polished, but now continuously suffer from the "tuck-in tail dog" feelings, despite consciously knowing I have no reason to.

You yourself know that you’re more well off than you were before, yet you’re having cognitive dissonance in conversations.

It almost sounds like you can’t believe you overcame your anxieties and now you’ve labeled yourself with an almost “stage 2”. Its not a terminal illness.

I think you should try forgetting the whole concept of “social anxiety”, never diagnose yourself. Go to a psychologist and get screened if need be.

A huge misconception in people is that having anxiety means there’s something wrong with you. If you’re a human with a brain you’ll have some form of malingering anxiety about an unfavorable situation. It shows that you care at some level.

It also causes you to weigh the consequences, and the rewards of your potential actions. It’s a survival mechanism.

Superiority/inferiority should never be on your mind we’re all the same. If you’ve came a long way like you said you have this should be enough to relax you.

If you look at people as values you’ll inevitably start supplicating when you meet someone with “more” value. Value is subjective, because we all value different things.

I feel like you might be worrying for nothing unless people are always condescending toward you (and even then it could be all in your head).

 

[ElderPrice]

I have a decent idea about my own irrational beliefs -- where they spring from and what they tell me -- but seem to fail to correct them. They may be factually wrong but feel too real. As a fellow sufferer, I'm sure you've felt the sinking feeling in your stomach, the inferiority, that ephemeral sense of hopelessness (for a lack of a better word) and the constant simulation that tries to predict what the other person's thinking / how she's reacting. Wondering if you had any thoughts on correcting irrational beliefs when they feel too real. Is it repetition that weakens this?

If you have a thought, and you try to correct it, but you can’t because it feels real and feels like you’re lying to yourself, you’re not doing it right.

if you’re around an attractive man and think “I’m inferior,” the correction to a rational thought is NOT something like “I’m actually superior” or even “We’re the exact same.”

Look at my example again in my post. Here’s another example: “Maybe it’s true that I’m standing next to a man that’s more attractive than me, but that doesn’t mean he’s getting any girl he wants here. Attractive men still get turned down a lot. And there very well could be some girls here that actually find me more attractive. Also, I know nothing about his life and personality.”

I’m not lying to myself if it’s really clear the other guy is more physically attractive than me. What I am doing is assessing the rationality of that instantaneous thought/feeling. Also don’t forget, it’s also irrational to let negative thoughts affect you.

Example: Yeah maybe this other guy is objectively more physically attractive than me, but there’s no rational reason that should make me feel bad and paralyze me. It’s irrational to allow someone else’s presence to affect my thoughts.

 

[Souverain]

@DarkKnight
lol the feeling after relapsing is the worst, and nofap makes me feel better for like a week, but after that I feel like I return to baseline.

@SunKing

It almost sounds like you can’t believe you overcame your anxieties and now you’ve labeled yourself with an almost “stage 2”. Its not a terminal illness.

Certainly some part of this, but it's less my disappointment at having to deal with another (mental) problem, and more the feeling of "Damn! I don't know how to get over this."

If you look at people as values you’ll inevitably start supplicating when you meet someone with “more” value. Value is subjective, because we all value different things.

That's true, and a big part of my problem. I've been trying to balance upping my value (which requires me to be at least somewhat status-conscious) with maintaining a balanced approach to social interactions. My psyche, clearly, has skewed to one side.

Another fucked up part to this -- a problem related to impostor syndrome -- is comparing yourself only with another man's strengths. This is a game one cannot win. Someone's always gonna be better than us at something. This has been a tough thing to do.

I feel like you might be worrying for nothing unless people are always condescending toward you (and even then it could be all in your head).

Most people definitely aren't condescending. I guess it's my frustration at being unable to take my interactions to the next level, being unable to attract high-quality people into my life, and generally not achieving my social goals (which were, till now, to get off my ass and meet people but now there's a new challenge.

@ElderPrice
Thanks for clarifying man. I need to give this approach a shot. Your example had me realize that my approach to CBT was trying to neutralize my irrational thoughts with equally irrational ones. Will give this a go and see how I can keep myself positive while staying realistic. Perhaps more social interaction will help in realizing that different people value different things, and that I might have something to offer (despite putting in some work on myself over the past couple years, I still haven't internalized this entirely) to folks.

Thanks for your advice guys. Really appreciate it.