A Tragic Story: How Did I Mess Up?

[Troy]

A Tragic Story: How Did I Mess Up?

Everything was going fine with Malika until tonight. I made a post over here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9766 showing a whatsapp conversation we had. Ray told me that she was all mine and I should move forward with her fast. And that I shouldn't even talk about her friend. Check the above link to see the full story.

Now here is my painful story. I am not even sure how to start telling you how I messed up with a girl I should have moved faster with. This story might be a little jumbled, please bear with me. I'm feeling very vulnerable and emotional.

I asked out Malika earlier in the week and she said she would go with me. At first I didn't plan on carrying anyone else because I wanted to be alone with her. She was pressuring me to choose which girl I wanted: she or her friend.

Getting to the meat of the matter. Malika asked me yesterday if I could bring Shantai and I said yes. They are best friends and I didn't want it to seem that I was rejecting anybody. After school today she met up with me on the compound along with Shantai and we departed. We had to walk 20 minutes to get to the bus stop to get a bus and go into the city. While walking we met up with some of her male friends. For the rest of the walk they chatted but I was a bit quiet because I didn't know how to joke around with them. And I got visibly uncomfortable.

Fast forward, when we reach in the town her guy friends departed leaving me with Malika and Shantai to tke the bus to the city. We hopped on a bus heading to the city. The journey I had no problems with and everyone was quiet.

When we arrived in the city I realized that I felt totally unconfident and there was a lot of uncomfotable silences. While walking I was ahead of them leading and they were behind not carring one bit. Whenever I proceeded to talk to them I was told to lead since because they didn't know the city well.

We wentupstairs and I saw a old friend and approached him. I only wanted to say " Hi " to him but when he saw me with the girl's his face lit up and that's when he begun to game them. He did nothing; all I did was introduce them to him and then they were all over him and paying me no attention. Here I am standing like an idiot on the outside watching the girl's I brought out to chill with totally preoccupied with this guy.

I felt like shit, and I knew I had to do something. I at first proceeded to relax against a post and not seem jealous but they paid me no attention. Then I went in and told the girl's I was ready to go. And they ignored me; girl's who were all over me till they touched in this city full of attractive men to throw around.

Eventually I got them to go with me but they decided to bring my old friend. His name is Brandon. So I was back to my job; waliking ahead leading the way while these girl's deep dived Brandon and kept laughing at everything he said. We went to the bathroom and while in there Brandon brought up a couple of dumb stories of what I was like back in the day. I attacked back to not seem like a pushover of course; I thought I had nothing to lose.

We left the bathroom and were walking all around town and I was barely there. Every now and again I could get a word in but everything they laughed at before they reacted to like it was so boring.

From about 5:00pm to 7:00pm I went through this torture. I was noticed at times but ignored mainly. What I noticed about my game vs.Brandon's game was that he had a way of drawing attention to himself by making girls laugh without having to say much. And with me I had to say a lot more and be far more dramatic to get any laughs. Call it the boring syndrome. It's like having him there they were able to analyze how good I was to other men and chose me unsuitable.

Eventually I got Brandon aside and told him that I felt jealous and asked him to tone dwn on the flirting and make me look like the bigger man and make them want me even more. He insisted that he was doing nothing and when I was one away ( so they thought ) he told them everything I said. He told them I was jealous of them liking him,( and for the rest of the night he emphasized that ) and how silly I was to not know what was happening.

As the night rolled around we went to get some food. We entered KFC and the girls took a seat to wait on us guys to go buy and bring it. While I was in the line he ditched me to go sit and chat with the girl's. I felt pissed off so when I cashed I carryed the ticket to him to go join the waiting line till the number is called. He refused and immediately the girl's decided to go get it. While they were gone I sat with him and expaained again what he was doing and asked him to stop. This time he understood a little better yet he still disagreed with a few stuff.

The girl's came back and we had a little fun. I even got Malika to take a bite of the mini burger at the same time I was and it came close to a kiss. I can't remember the conversation but I do remember I felt more comfortable by then.

We left KFC and went to the transport centre to put the girl's on a bus. During the walk this time I was holding Shantai's hand and was in front. Shantai brought my attention to Malika and Brandon behind us who were holding hands tightly. I felt a big rage boil inside me. I mean a old friend just comes in and has no respect to me; he just intends to take my girls away. I stopped and went in between then while still holding Shantai's hand and pretended to ask Brandon a question while using my body to part their hands. He realized what I was doing and called me out on it.

At the bus stop the girl's decided take a girl's time walk and left us for a couple minutes. During that time I explained what I felt and I told him I liked Malika and that I didn't want him going after her. He said to me that I was at fault and that my ratings among them had falled. He said I was now in the friend zone and even though they still liked me he felt they liked him even more and he has the upper hand in getting them. He went on to reason with me that he meant nothing and he was just flirting and now they are into him.

The story continues where he explains a little about what I did wrong and how to fix it. Unfortunately I needto sleep now so will continue the story tomorrow. In the meantime guys what did I do wrong? How do I fix it?

Troy

 

[topcat]

Hey Troy,
Rough situation, I've been there, but an excellent learning experience.
2 big issues stuck out to me here:
the biggest issue was logistics, to avoid the friend zone don't do friendly things, ie. bring two girls out on a long trip about town, instead invite the one you like alone, keep it one on one & personal.
Second issue was neediness. Not only was your friend at an advantage due to his use of little effort AND his novelty, but you magnified his attractiveness by acting jealous - you drove the girls to him. Don't hate that nigga, STUDY HIM.
I've been there. Inevitably happens when you have girls that you are highly invested in but move slowly with and spend platonic time with. They'll use outsider men to contrast you with and watch your reactions. In these situations its best not to react. It helps also to (subtly) instigate exactly what you're afraid of happening - it kills the fear and makes you stronger (be a bit of a masochist). Girls want to talk to your friend? Let them. Be a good wingman. Relax. What would a high value man do? When he saw his friend he would introduce the girls to him...why? There's enough for the both of you, there's nothing to fear, if they like him so what? Women like hot men as much as he likes hot women, such is life. Don't like the fact that they're hitting it off? Too bad, it's your fault they all met anyway, smile at fate, enjoy your succulent KFC and prepare for future interactions. When I was in highschool, if I failed at gaming a girl, I'd pass her on to one of my boys with more skill, and let them try. And likewise. We'd share the spoils. Extreme? Maybe, but it destroys their preciousness in your eyes and strengthens the bond between you and your friends. Just don't be sour about it. My point is be happy when your friends win and and they may return the favour.
Dawg just learn from it and move quick. You'll be a beast in no time. Game is weird, women can be like cats at times, when you want them to like you they run and hide, hiss and scratch, when you couldn't care less they're rubbing their asses in your face. Its nutn personal.
- Topcat

 

[Troy]

Edit: Topcat, what's up dawg. U gud? From what you said about my logistics, yes it stinks. I can't bring girls home and there is nowhere at school to have alone time. Now that my needy behavior caused some damage how would I move forward? I'm not ready to give up because I gave up when these mistakes occurred in the past and I lost even more. Malika told me she likes me so I hope I didn't do too much damage. How do I tell her I like her and how do I get her chasing once more so I can bed her?

The rest of this was pretyped; here's the other half of the it.

A Story

Me and Brandon stood out in the transport centre and talked about the day and where I went wrong. One thing he kept coming back to was that I was in the friend zone. While I've known them from September I haven't moved forward with any of them.

But you know why I didn't move forward? I didn't see any of them as a girlfriend yet over time by getting to know them I began to like Malika. I felt so comfortable and I'd talk about any thing with her. I don't want to give up so quick so please guide me to move forward with this girl, instead of saying go meet 202 more girls and forget about this one.

I keep meeting girl's that are very flirty with me then it dies down because I struggle with maintaining that flirty sexy vibe. Yesterday morning she saw me and approached me and we walked around school hand in hand. So why did the flip switch?

Brandon told me a story of a similar experience. In the summer he had a job at a bar and met a hot chick who liked him. When he saw this he brought her flowers, wrote love letters, and went out of his way to meet her. When he left work he could take a bus from town A to town B where his home is but instead of doing that he took a bus to town C because she went that route. And he pretended he lived that way then after he got her home he took a bus and went to town B. You get it? He went out of his way to please her. She became distant with him and went on to tell a friend to tell him that she had a boyfriend. Brandon said that crushed his heart and he made it his duty to NEVER chase a woman again.


Next thing he said was that the girl's thought of me as a nice virgin and were afraid to ask me certain questions because I seemed way too inexperienced. They just met him and asked him questions like " How he likes having sex ", what size pussy is best: tight or loose, and what he thinks of a slut. He said they would not ask me those questions. I asked him to tell me more but he couldn't remember what else they asked him regarding sex. What he remembered clearly was that they kept asking him to tell them which girl I liked more. He said he didn't know.

What Went Wrong

Taking a guess here is what I think went wrong:

1) I didn't move fast enough

2) And I brought the wrong expectations to the table. I treated them like a friend because that is what I initially wanted. Then I fell in love ( unfortunately ) and lost major points when I got needy.

3) I should not have introduced this guy to them if I haden't bedded my girl.

4) My friend, Brandon switched schools from a lower ranked to a higher ranked school. That gave him major points already without even being introduced and when I did introduce him he bacame a high status novelty to them. Just by going to that school says good stuff. It's like preselection and social proof on steroids.

5) I got visibly jealous and to make matters worse Brandon told them everything I said.

6) Malika and Brandon held hands and were way too flirty. I remember when the girl's came back from there walk to tell us good night they kept looking at him and barely looked at me. Damn why does this keep happeining? I just feel like running for any pussy the moment it's open, seriously.

I've expalined as much as possible and even though I have analyzed a couple problems Ifeel there are more issues that I can't fix because I don't see the problem. If you can figure it out based on what I write I'd appreciate that.

When a girl tells you she likes you how do you move forward?

Should I ask Malika on another date? If so how long should I wait to contact her?

When I see her around school how should I behave and do?

Since it has been only 1 days damage I'm hoping she still likes me like that, a lover and boyfriend. I could see on her friend's face the hopelessness that I would do anything. I don't know what to do. Having Shantai, Malika's best friend on a date hindered me from making a move on. To make matters worse if I got the chance I wouldn't know how to respond and get sex. Damn it!

Final question: How do I tell a girl I like her and escalate immediately after telling her?

By far I've lost too many girls to this scenario and i want to make a change.

Troy

 

[Tripz]

First off I think you should have been extremely calm when they jumped all over him, girls know the ropes and test you every step of the way, I remember a while ago before girlschase I went to a club with a girl and we found her friends there, she started dancing with some guys and talking and doing shots, I though I should chat up her friends or have a good time but no way in hell am I gonna chase her, and it worked.
Secondly I think you should pull back a bit, chill out be a bit aloof and show them that your world doesnt crash down if you dont get the girl. Go around use some preselection, dont pay any special attention to the girl, cause if you make this whole thing a big deal inside your head it becomes a big deal in reality. Next time you decide to go on a date, dont ask or negotiate, you give her the terms, this place that time, if she doesnt like it dont give in, she will respect you for it, cause you are a man for gods sake, lead your life, suck them into your reality your world where the laws of physics stop and the laws of you apply, which will make framing easier.
And also this is not a tragic story, get out of your head get pumped and forget this thing if it doesnt work out, usually we fall in love with situations rather than girls, if you look at them as an object you realize that theres nothing special going on its just a blurry vision inside your head.

 

[Troy]

Tripz

I wouldn't want to wait too long and then my girl finds a new man. Everything you said makes sense. So how long should I wait before moving forward?

 

[Tripz]

Well taking in consideration that at first they were asking who you like most (between the girls) I doubt that your girl loses attraction that fast, sure it'll take a hit but given a nice chance it'll come up to normal rates, now knowing that I think you should as any situation wait between a few days and a week, you don't wanna see too much of her because the more you see her the better the chance you don't escalate and she puts you in that damn friendzone, so plan ahead, wait a few days set up a date for a few days later and go with her, if she says can I bring my dog, can I bring a friend a cow a mule a mom, you shut her right down, this is not a negotiation, the second you let up and give her power she senses it and will use it.


I doubt she'll find a man that quick, so you still have a little breathing time to save this whole thing.
So wait a few days, set up a date go out with her, never fight over anything especially little things, your a man, your a dominant alpha, you've seen everything and done everything nothing phases you, everything to you is like a kid throwing rocks at Superman's chest, it's just tickling his chest hair. If she for some reason gives you any resistance in talking or escalation make no big deal out of it, she says something to test you or attack or or for any reason that would make you feel uncomfortable or anything you see as not good, ignore it or slightly put her down, in those situations whoever seems calmest and makes the other person realize what they said/did is actually bullshit to the other person gains in social power. Don't qualify yourself to her, she's the one proving herself to you, after all this is your world and she's just a tourist, she can apply for a bang visa and that it is.


Some of what I said might be seen as harsh or bad but people are crazy bro, they get a chance they'll stick it up your ass, so take control of yourself and your life. When the knife hits the bone everyone drops their moral and they kill eachother, so don't rely on their nice sides too much, take initiative and lead on, especially with women, they wanna relax in the strong protective arms of a man so they can enjoy their own beauty and the world, the second you slip up in leading they have to take on those decisions and male characteristics, they become frustrated, it's like having your wife go to work while she forces you to stay home and watch kids and clean and cook. (Not saying that, that's all women should be doing but it's torture for most men)

 

[ray_zorse]

A phrase that I use when I feel ignored is as follows...

Her: (fiddling with her phone for an extended period...looking out the window...or as in this case, talking to someone else)
Me: I'm not really feeling the luurrve here, I'm gonna go do XXX

If I wasn't having a good time I would consider just leaving and going home or going somewhere else, e.g. to do some cold approach. If it's like a bar situation you're golden, just find anyone to talk to.

But yeah I think the mistake you made was bringing the friend, this made it a social occasion so you could not really blame the girls for inviting Brandon. If it was just you and Malika then he might feel bad crashing your date and if he did you could put him in his place. But what I think you should have done in the circumstances was treated him like a wing and gamed Malika while he occupied Shantai. If you'd put it to him in those terms (or just said nothing and gone ahead and done it), he probably would've been happy to oblige, since it's win/win for everyone. Mind you, telling them what u said was a c--t act so I would not trust him in future, he AMOGed you.

But look Troy you need to get more of an abundance mindset, I understand you became attracted to her as you got to know her, but I think also to some extent you treated her as a friend and then when she expressed attraction you got over excited (due to being in scarcity) and quickly fell in love, or lust, or infatuation or whatever. You should not be waiting for her to move things forward, instead you must assume attraction and make a move, she will stop you if she's not down, no harm done (nothing ventured, nothing gained).

Frankly if this had happened to me 6mth ago I would have handled it just like you (I can't think of one offhand but I know I've been in similar situations in my 38yrs pre GC). Not now. The difference? Cold approach. I speak to beautiful women every day and keep my cool, because I'm in my comfort zone. Approaching thousands of beautiful women and trying to chat them up (and often crashing and burning) has normalized it for me. Social circle cannot do that, so please, go and approach!

-Ray

 

[Troy]

wait a few days set up a date for a few days later and go with her, if she says can I bring my dog, can I bring a friend a cow a mule a mom, you shut her right down, this is not a negotiation, the second you let up and give her power she senses it and will use it.

Lol right on man. Very humorous part there about bringing her dog. At first I knew I had most of the power so I told her to meet me after school because we are going somewhere. I said it like I was sure it was a done yes, as if I didn't even need to ask her and there were no objections.

Since I'll give it a few days I'd have to avoid going where she goes around school. I'll give it a week and go for her again. In the meantime if she does happen to see me I'll be sure to keep interacting with other persons and wait till she approaches me or I've given her enough time.

Thanks for the advice bro!

Mind you, telling them what u said was a c--t act so I would not trust him in future, he AMOGed you.

What is c--t act ? I haven't heard that term before and didn't find it in Google search. Definitely this guy was out to make me look bad. I told him something in secret and he let it out same time. It's not the first time he did this. I remember asking him for a call. We were out approaching and I was to meet a girl. I called her and gave him back the phone without taking it out of call log. I was shocked to find out later that he had called the girl, save the number, and tell her all sorts of dumb stories about me. He stole that girl in secret, whom I had to cold approach and he added her on Facebook. When I found out I had already lost her, Jaci-Ann is the name. I called her up and explained what he was doing and none of what he said was true. Usually when you have to go through all this damage control it usually isn't worth it. Just avoid these guys.

His best friend told me all that because he did the same thing to him. I don't know why Brandon has a habit of stealing his friends girls and still losing them but I now know not to trust him. My advice: Everyone look out for these guys. They are usually the first to cockblock people. And they usually have trouble holding onto the girl's since they are tricking them into being attracted. The good thing is the girl's find out rather sooner than later what is happening.


Troy

 

[Drck]

Hi Troy,

Take it easy man. There is quite a lot of points to be addressed in your story, and there are many ways to see it and many ways to find an improvement. I'm just gonna address some points and hope that other guys will give you another perspective as well.

Don't get down on yourself. You went out with these girls, and most likely with anther girls as well, you held her hand and so on, That is very good, you have balls to do it, just keep trying and keep moving forward, that's the only way to get better. Make it simple, make a List A of what you did great and a List B of what you should improve. Always emphasize those things that you did great (List A) because the list of things that should be improved (List B) can get overwhelming. The list of things you did great should be more important to you, and at the same time work on improving those things on the other list. Ideally you will shift those things from List B to List A. It is actually a great thing to see a progress of List A after several weeks and months, as it grows.

So some items that should be on List B:

Your overall frame. It seems that you went out to "hang out". You took another girl with you, you accepted another guy to join you. Don't make me wrong, just the fact that you went out with two girls is really good (List A) but at the same time it won't help you much to get the girl in your place. The "hangout frame" can easily shift you to a friend zone. I understand it is difficult because you don't have the experience, but how about a frame like this:

I would go out only with one girl, I simply DECIDE which one before I go out. If Malika told me she would go out with me, that would be it. She either goes or not. If she goes, I would go to specific places (compression date?), with limited time spent in each, I obviously think logistic as well, I would eventually want to end up in my place. Right there I am moving things forward because my frame is just different, right there I am leading. But what if she say that she doesn't want to go out without her friend? Than I would say, ok, no problem, and I would cancel the date. She is obviously not interested enough in me because she needs her friend ...

So I'm out and I meet my best friend I haven't seen in 2 years. Join me? I don't think so. I'm on a mission, I don't have time for friends today. I don't need any great-buddy chit chat because I'm out with a girl. Good to see you, I'll call you in tomorrow, maybe we can catch up next weekend. Bye, have a great day. He gets 5 minutes, That is it.

Very simple, see how many issues you can avoid by having a clear frame? With the right frame you simply don't have to deal with lots of issues, you just avoid them. You don't have to deal with competition, you don't have to watch how is he stealing your girls, you don't have to be anxious and envious, you don't have to be assertive to show who's the bigger man... You just avoid the whole issue by having a clear frame, knowing exactly what you want to do...

Next, Malika asked you to bring her friend. I would say no, it's pretty much the same as above. You go out with this girl, you don't need a third party. She basically brought a cockblock with her, and you allowed it. The moment you agreed to it you were on the speedy way to friend zone. Now Malika doesn't have to focus on you, she can have great conversation with her g-friend. She is more comfortable, she can 'escape' any of your effort to escalate. She can 'escape' any vibes between you two any times she wants. She can make an easy escape when you suggest to go to your place. Given the situation you were in, you were now 'forced' to hold a hand of a girl you really didn't want, while your "friend" was holding hand of a girl that agreed to go out with you. What a headache. Unless you want to date/sleep with both girls, I wouldn't do it. Always keep it simple, at least at the beginning - it is just you and the girl you want, nobody else...

Other thing, you probably don't have the personality to 'entertain' those girls like your friend Brandon. And there are ways to improve much, and there are ways to simply avoid the whole issue. I don't have such personality either, and I'm not even trying to 'entertain', although I must say that people/girls are different at another places, so it all depends...

Another one, neediness. IMO you just don't say to the other guy that you need to look like the bigger man in front of the girls, you don't try to explain yourself. You simply work on being a bigger man, and I'm sure you already do. Work on confidence, assertiveness, self esteem, work on your life. Work on being The Man.

Last one, know your friends. IMO Brandon could care less about you, real friends just don't do things like this. He is not your friend. Get rid of friends like that, you don't need them, they take away your girls in front of your eyes. That hurts. If you want to learn something from Brandon, it is his attitude: He sees a guy he knows with girls, he joins, and he takes away the girl he wants. I know it is painful for you but I must give him a credit. You could hate Brandon for what he did, or you could learn some things from him. The choice is only yours....

Learn as much as you can from this experience and move on, with Malika or without her. That's the best way anyway....

 

[ray_zorse]

Haha shouldn't have censored myself, I'm in Australia and a "cunt" is slang for a girl's vagina, however it is a pretty strong word (some of my gf's used it to refer to their anatomy however I know a lot of girls who will leave the room or tell you off strongly for using this word, it is quite demeaning)... so I would not throw this word around, except in guy talk, and calling someone a cunt is a very strong insult, except when said in jest (which happens all the time in Aussie haha). A "cunt act" is something only a cunt would do. Haha.
-Ray

 

[Troy]

Hey Everyone,

Update: I couldn't find my phone yesterday and I just found it. When I turned it on I got 6 texts from Shantai. Malika whatsapped me yesterday to tell me was home and was alright. Now I'm really confused because I don't know which one of them likes me as a friend and which one wants me to be their boyfriend.

When we were in KFC me and Malika played " eating the sandwich while coming close to a kiss ".
And when we left KFC me and Shantai were holding hands and she was the one to hold me ( a little too tight because my hand still hurts lol ).

They are besties who like me and I like them but I prefer Malika, maybe because I know her more. I had the same thing happen to me last year with two cute black chicks and I ended up losing both girls because I wasn't decisive. The reason why I didn't move forward with two best friends who like me is because they make it seem like they are fighting over me and I don't want to break best friends apart. Those girls are Shacquera and Amanda. If I picked Amanda to be my girlfriend, Shacquera might have been devastated and Shacquera might have been the girl that wanted to fuck me while Amanda saw me as a friend and was just supporting Shacquera to screw my brains. And vice versa. Now I'm put to the test and I have no idea what to do. I don't want to choose the wrong girl and lose both and potentially make them become enemies.

I''ve realize that I don't need to keep impressing them because they already like me. All I need to do is move forward.

Shantai sent me this text yesterday

" Hey you reach home safe? Love you boo muah ( kiss ). What you doing? Psst!

Malika shows me more love in person and Shantai shows me more love over text. What should I do?

Make it simple, make a List A of what you did great and a List B of what you should improve. Always emphasize those things that you did great (List A) because the list of things that should be improved (List B) can get overwhelming. The list of things you did great should be more important to you, and at the same time work on improving those things on the other list. Ideally you will shift those things from List B to List A. It is actually a great thing to see a progress of List A after several weeks and months, as it grows.

So some items that should be on List B:

I just did it and made it well detailed right over on the "Social Calibration Step Up Series". viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8365&p=47572#p47572 Thanks for that tip bro! I made sure to let everyone know this advice came from you.

Next, Malika asked you to bring her friend. I would say no, it's pretty much the same as above. You go out with this girl, you don't need a third party. She basically brought a cockblock with her, and you allowed it. The moment you agreed to it you were on the speedy way to friend zone.

Malika wasn't the only one who wanted her to come. I joined in because I became excited at the possibilities of hooking up with both. Plus Malika had her birthday last month and I wanted her best friend there to witness our after party . I'll take your advice and ask out one girl next time. Having the both of them gave me a tough time keeping them entertained. What I've realized is that I'm not very good at multitasking. I had to be focusing on the street and thinking of things to say. Whenever I'm sitting someone quiet with one girl I'm usually the flirtiest. Groups are tough to handle usually.

Troy

 

[Troy]

Everyone,

Check my first lay report here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9837#p47736. The rest of it will be up in 3 hours. I'm tired now and I'm excited. I thank everyone for helping me. I fucked Malika after lots of resistance but it was worth it..

THANKS BROS

Troy

 

[Drck]

Damn! You da man!