addressing the quality-quantity dilemma

[Quiris]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about how to increase pickup efficiency while not decreasing quality and I'd like to hear your thoughts. My preference is for college-age beautiful girls that respond more to comfort / relatability than attraction. With more time spent daygaming the quality of the girls closed has slowly increased but not really the quantity. On YT I keep hearing that 'daygame is inefficient and for peasants'. I do agree that daygame has a lot of limitations (e.g. only gives you enough volume in big cities with rather open minded and young population). However, I'm not sure I agree with the YT guys who claim that when you reach a certain level you should instead use social circle, apps, IG, or move to the Philippines and run FB/TT ads to uncover the good girls that still exist in the jungle. Except for the last strategy, all other methods seem to suffer from what I call the quality-efficiency tradeoff which many ‘experts’ seem to be unaware of: people moving from daygame to becoming an app master or popular social media influencer very likely can get way more girls per unit of effort but the quality of said girls tends to change as well (e.g. more hypersexual or status seeking).
My question for the community is:
do you guys have suggestions on how to increase volume while not decreasing quality? Of course, I’m assuming that daygame is already optimized in that the areas / times visited are chosen so that they have the highest concentration of the preferred girls. Also, I’m aware that seduction skills can increase efficiency as well.
This post was inspired by the YT passport guys claiming that if you get your ‘ad game’ right you can get hundreds of quality girls messaging you every day without any need for daygame which outside of very large cities is definitely impractical. I see the appeal to that strategy but my initial impression is that such methods would not have such a great RoI in most of the US.

 

[ulrich]

As someone who has actually ran ads for a serious of businesses… it’s easy getting people to talk with you in q messaging app… it’s very hard to keep them interested.

Unless they share numbers, I have my doubts on ads game.
Most likely you get ton of contacts and few meets.

 

[Chase]

@Quiris,

The main obstacle to those methods is the highest quality girls who aren't also nymphos or seeking Internet status points are not responding to ads and they're not on dating apps, at least not usually (and don't normally go on more than one or two dates from apps when they do try them out... or none at all).

Social circle can have high quality girls in it who aren't nymphos or status seekers, but it limits you to a small circle of familiar people, unless you're pursuing some kind of social circle at scale, which pretty much always means you are mostly meeting highly social people, and many of the girls you meet will trend toward being nymphos or status seekers.

As for the Philippines... well, you can certainly do heavy quantity there. Quality? Depends what your minimum IQ threshold for that is. If it's not that low, you're still not going to be finding a lot of quality.

The thing to keep in mind with guys recommending apps, Instagram, etc. for quality, is that generally these guys' definitions of 'quality' INCLUDE girls who are either a.) nymphos and/or b.) digital status seekers. There are a lot of guys who like open relationships and prize nymphos highly as mates. There are a lot of guys who love the admiration a flashy girl on their arm brings them, who like that feeling of having the girl that 1 million other men are drooling over on Insta, and for them such girls are just about the highest quality there is.

I've tried just about everything, and across the various pros I know I know guys who have tried everything. For the highest quantity of quality women who are NOT nymphos or status seekers, day game is what you want.

You're Passing Up the Hottest, Coolest Girls

When I first moved to California, I set up a number of dates in advance (thanks, online dating!) so that I’d be able to hit the ground running when I got there. My first date I set up for one week after I’d arrived (I wanted a little time to unpack and make my place presentable first... plus...

www.girlschase.com

Ways you can optimize day game for higher quantities of quality girls:

1. Fundamentals as good as possible (max attractiveness)
   
   
2. Alertness / presence as high as possible (max awareness -- really helps for both generating and not missing out on opportunities)
   
   
3. Screening on the approach. Ask her where she goes to school and what her major is in the first minute. Sift through girls faster
   
   
4. Adjusting your archetype to match your desired type's ideal as much as possible (e.g., if they like artists, be REALLY artistic)
   
   
5. Scouting different cities, states, countries -- can make a really huge difference in terms of what types of girls you're looking for and how abundant they are in day game. Some cities are DEAD during the day. Some cities have tons of the kinds of women you wouldn't want to meet and almost none of the women you would. Other cities are busy all day long and have quality girls bursting out of the seams. You can half-ignore the first four points if you change to a prime day game city and figure out the good spots for it. It's the difference between optimizing for diamond-hunting in a tin mine vs. optimizing for diamond-hunting in a diamond mine.

Aside from those, no way around it.

Gotta put the work in to get there.

Guys can call it 'peasant game' if they want to.

When I'm a quadrillionaire I'll still select girlfriends from girls met via day game and keep the apps and social circle as momentum builders.

Chase

 

[Skills]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about how to increase pickup efficiency while not decreasing quality and I'd like to hear your thoughts. My preference is for college-age beautiful girls that respond more to comfort / relatability than attraction. With more time spent daygaming the quality of the girls closed has slowly increased but not really the quantity. On YT I keep hearing that 'daygame is inefficient and for peasants'. I do agree that daygame has a lot of limitations (e.g. only gives you enough volume in big cities with rather open minded and young population). However, I'm not sure I agree with the YT guys who claim that when you reach a certain level you should instead use social circle, apps, IG, or move to the Philippines and run FB/TT ads to uncover the good girls that still exist in the jungle. Except for the last strategy, all other methods seem to suffer from what I call the quality-efficiency tradeoff which many ‘experts’ seem to be unaware of: people moving from daygame to becoming an app master or popular social media influencer very likely can get way more girls per unit of effort but the quality of said girls tends to change as well (e.g. more hypersexual or status seeking).
My question for the community is:
do you guys have suggestions on how to increase volume while not decreasing quality? Of course, I’m assuming that daygame is already optimized in that the areas / times visited are chosen so that they have the highest concentration of the preferred girls. Also, I’m aware that seduction skills can increase efficiency as well.
This post was inspired by the YT passport guys claiming that if you get your ‘ad game’ right you can get hundreds of quality girls messaging you every day without any need for daygame which outside of very large cities is definitely impractical. I see the appeal to that strategy but my initial impression is that such methods would not have such a great RoI in most of the US.

There's s guy in Colombia doing this with success, actually 2 guys I think I heard doing this... It has been a while he was explaining how he did on playing with fire interview..

 

[Gladiator]

I've tried just about everything, and across the various pros I know I know guys who have tried everything. For the highest quantity of quality women who are NOT nymphos or status seekers, day game is what you want.

You're Passing Up the Hottest, Coolest Girls

When I first moved to California, I set up a number of dates in advance (thanks, online dating!) so that I’d be able to hit the ground running when I got there. My first date I set up for one week after I’d arrived (I wanted a little time to unpack and make my place presentable first... plus...

www.girlschase.com

@Chase this is exactly the archetype I like but they're one of the hardest to seduce.

They're beautiful, intelligent, soft-natured, shy, but socially awkward and don't know to play the game. My seduction is a bit of trollish and it's over-whelming for them. They can't stand the social pressure and they eject; it's harder to even open them since they dress modestly and direct openers are incongruent with them. Social butterflies are good with my kind of game.

So, do you mind giving me tips on how to seduce these kind of chics? or if there's already a post could you point me to that?

 

[Bill]

The biggest change in quality will probably be gained from moving to a different country with better demographics.

 

[Rain]

I've tried just about everything, and across the various pros I know I know guys who have tried everything. For the highest quantity of quality women who are NOT nymphos or status seekers, day game is what you want.

I recall, around 2019 maybe, you had written a forum post/article comment, that went something like this:

"most beautiful women just mate within their social circle, dont use online or go out. those would not be open to cold approach MOST of the time"

Maybe you'd also said only a certain percentage(20% ?) of women are actually open to cold approach/willing to date outside their social circle.
Is this correct?

 

[Chase]

@Gladiator,

@Chase this is exactly the archetype I like but they're one of the hardest to seduce.

They're beautiful, intelligent, soft-natured, shy, but socially awkward and don't know to play the game. My seduction is a bit of trollish and it's over-whelming for them. They can't stand the social pressure and they eject; it's harder to even open them since they dress modestly and direct openers are incongruent with them. Social butterflies are good with my kind of game.

So, do you mind giving me tips on how to seduce these kind of chics? or if there's already a post could you point me to that?

I think you probably suspect what you need to do there already: tone down the bombastic stuff and stop blowing girls out.

I was like you when I was newer, hitting girls with this really blow-your-socks off humor and all this cleverness, until I had a guy point out to me that it was just way too much for most girls; most were going to feel like they could not compete with me and bow out. I mellowed out and started calibrating much more carefully. It makes a huge difference. You should always start with light teases, light banter, not too wild stories, etc., and see how girls react, then get wilder if the response is really good, or stay mellow if it’s not.

Anyway, I could probably do a proper article on that topic (picking up girls who are shy or reserved). I’ll get something written on it.


@Rain,

I recall, around 2019 maybe, you had written a forum post/article comment, that went something like this:

"most beautiful women just mate within their social circle, dont use online or go out. those would not be open to cold approach MOST of the time"

Maybe you'd also said only a certain percentage(20% ?) of women are actually open to cold approach/willing to date outside their social circle.
Is this correct?

Right. Generally speaking, some girls are a lot more open to cold approach than others. Dependent on personality + where her head is at at the given moment you approach.

Some girls it is going to be very hard to get anywhere with via cold approach, even if they are single and available, unless you really have your game locked down tight and you come across like the kind of guy they really want to meet.

But cold approach still stands as the best way to meet high quality girls:

1. Picture a very well-cultivated social circle. Let’s say it has 5 girls meeting OP’s standards for “high quality” as core members, and helps you intersect with another 5 new high quality girls per month. Let’s say these girls are representative of the general population, and 80% of them are in relationships. You have access to 2 single, available high quality girls per month (more some months, fewer other months; also some of them might be semi-available, e.g., have an FWB but are willing to see another guy, or they’re down to cheat on their BF, etc. But we’ll say on average per month it’s 2).
   
   
2. Now let’s say you cold approach. Let’s say you go out enough to the right places to see 50 women a month who meet your quality standard. 20% are single, which gives you 10 single, available high quality girls. Let’s say 60% of those are going to be really tough to get for a guy doing cold approach; the other 40% are in a more adventurous, exploratory, or horny/fertile mode when you meet them. So you’ve got 4 very solid leads, which is double what social circle was giving you. This in addition to all the hot but not high quality girls, the “just cute” girls, and other girls you can pull.

Cold approach is also more scaleable than social circle. If you want to have 8 very solid options instead of 4, find better venues, explore different times, and just put more time into cold approach and dating. It’s much harder to scale social circle. Takes much more time to set up, and can really require you to orient your life around it (same with cold approach to some extent, but cold approach is certainly the more flexible of the two).

This assumes you’re in a location with enough of the women you want, who go outside in public enough, that you can scale your cold approach, of course. If you’re not, and you want to scale, you need to explore other areas, or else move... otherwise social circle may still end up being the more fruitful path in your area.

Chase

 

[rockstar]

@Quiris

It sounds like you've been watching too many David Bond videos.

Yes, daygaming is not that efficient, especially if you don't live in a city with really high-traffic areas that have the type of girl you're looking for.

I disagree that apps, social media, and social circle at scale only have hypersexual and status-seeking girls. You are more likely to find those girls in those places than in daygame. But you can find just about any type of girl on dating apps. And to a lesser extent social circle. I haven't seen anyone get many introverted homebody girls through social circle at scale. But you can still get sweet, normal, extroverted girls looking for relationships.

I also use ig ads for dating. These can work really well, but there are some caveats:

1. You need a really good ig. You also need a lot of high-quality images/videos to test to find good-performing ones.
2. If you want to run message prompt ads for girls to message you, you should be in a country where ad impressions are particularly cheap. Otherwise dating app boosts are going to be better value.
3. If you're not in such a city, you're going to have to do something like dm girls who like your promoted feed posts, which is a lot more texting work. Though you can hire a VA for this. I personally think this isn't worth it compared to dating apps.

I think there's no real magic bullet for this problem. If you're looking for attractive girlfriend-quality girls, I would keep doing daygame. But I would also use apps and especially social circle too. You're going to have to weed through more girls on apps, but you can definitely find attractive, cool, wholesome girls one there. I have done this before. (But you need to have a really good profile because apps are very competitive).

Social circle is really city-dependent and really dependent on the types of girls you're going for. I would definitely figure out where the types of girls you like spend time in your city and find ways to integrate yourself into those environments. I find this to be the most rewarding and effective way to get girls once you've built it up enough. Though doing high-volume with quality here isn't straightforward especially if you're trying to avoid the nympho and status-y girls.

 

[ulrich]

What if I wanted to target nymphos for quick SNLs?

What would be the most efficient way to find them?
Night game?

 

[rockstar]

What if I wanted to target nymphos for quick SNLs?

What would be the most efficient way to find them?
Night game?

Party social circles and dating apps. Nightgame is also good - there will be certain venues for those types. Events with alcohol in general

 

[Gladiator]

I think you probably suspect what you need to do there already: tone down the bombastic stuff and stop blowing girls out.

Yes but the conversation becomes boring and I'll have to carry the conversation very eloquently.. she'll be giggling and all but she wouldn't know how to contribute to the banter..

Anyway, I could probably do a proper article on that topic (picking up girls who are shy or reserved). I’ll get something written on it.

Yes please.. Really look forward to it.. with a good example from start to finish, opener, type of frame to set, conversation topics etc.. you know it

 

[Quiris]

Thanks for your thoughtful contributions, guys. I’m surprised by how much traction this post got and that Chase himself replied. It’s pretty motivating!

@Chase a few additional thoughts:

- ‘When I'm a quadrillionaire I'll still select girlfriends from girls met via day game’ was really the sentence that had most impact on me. That goes against almost everything you hear from the app / IG guys on YT who almost universally seem to think that you start out with peasant cold approach but once you become successful you veer towards a Bilzerian-style setup. I suspect all these online / status guys never really became good at daygame, which is a super tough skill to master. Also, the little yet key part that they are all missing is that, changing what you lead with (from personality / vibe / subtle signals to in-your-face status / fame / insane lifestyle) you increase the quantity but also dramatically alter the type of girls you get (which was the point of this post). This change in quality is fine if you only want to do FWBs but not if you are after wife-caliber ones.

- about the cities where to find quality low-partner-count girls, from all the traveling I have done I have noticed this pattern: super conservative cities are not as good as I thought. First, volume of beautiful girls is pretty low both because these cities tend to not be super large nor attractive for outside beauties and because people don’t seem to be very inclined to be out and about. But the main point is that the girls who are open to getting together with ‘outsiders’ appear to be generally weirder and more outcast-like than in ‘normal cities’. I’d be curious about your thoughts / experience. My theory is that very religious areas have either very closed off girls who are generally resistant to cold approach or girls ostracized by their social circle or just moved there from liberal areas or part of some hypersexual niche that exists in every city. That’s why for now my solution is to be in a largish liberal city with some conservative girls moving there from the adjacent areas. Of course, other cities like Miami or San Diego probably would have a negligible fraction of conservative girls. On the other hand, NYC is a question mark: it’s super liberal but the influx of different people might compensate for that. That’s after all where Paul Janka found his wife.

- by the way, thanks also, despite all your traveling, for not pushing on this site the narrative 'just go to Eastern Europe, South East Asia, or Latin America' if you want a wife caliber conservative girl. I see this a lot on YT. I'm sure there are some great girls there and there are some pockets more favorable than other. But I think it's no magic bullet. Russia/Belarus for instance have among the highest divorce rate in the world. Or there are a lot of stories of 'traditional' women being brought to America as wives and then becoming more liberal / SJW than the average locals.

- in conclusion, thanks for acknowledging that probably there is no secret easy way to get conservative reserved girls, especially the young and beautiful ones. I think one just has to increase his skills and maybe be a little creative. Funny enough, as you mentioned, I had thought about knocking at doors for a split second. However, one example of things I tried at one point was to join church associations, which in theory seemed like an untapped gold mine. But in practice the single girls were for the most part old and/or not beautiful, spoiled by the large amount of church boys already waiting for their turn, plus volume and turnover was really low, plus you had to proceed with excruciating slowness.

 

[Gladiator]

Yes but the conversation becomes boring and I'll have to carry the conversation very eloquently.. she'll be giggling and all but she wouldn't know how to contribute to the banter..


Yes please.. Really look forward to it.. with a good example from start to finish, opener, type of frame to set, conversation topics etc.. you know it

Just read the article.. thanks man

I have a few things to discuss, I'll create a new post not to derail this post