Advice for someone who look very young?

[Swordfish]

Hey everyone,

I sincerely hope that this post doesn't come across as one of those regular victim's mentality threads on the forum, but rather one looking for practical advices to improve my dating life.

Basically I'm a tall, lanky Asian guy who unfortunately is still stuck with a babyface even in his late 20s (i.e. very soft facial features, younger looking than your average Asian guy, think those feminine-looking East Asian pop idols who look like 15-16 years old kids). It never really bothered me but as I grow older, I noticed that my peers' appearance have grown more masculine while I still look like some high school kid.

Although I'm doing OK attracting young girls (especially those equally young-looking Asian girls), when it comes to girls my age (the more mature women and many white girls in general) it's a lot more difficult. I admit that it is probably my biggest limiting belief in both my dating and professional lives.

The funny thing is, deep inside my mindset is probably more masculine than most of my peers. I don't behave or think in a feminine way, nor do I act like a nice guy. I am very outgoing, loud, social, confident and have little trouble talking to random people and talking to hot girls in a sexual manner (not very smoothly, I'll concede, but better than a lot of nice guys who're afraid of expressing themselves honestly). Girls would agree that I'm more of the "bad boy" type who they find exciting and refreshing, although I'm not sure if they also find me sexually attractive. I guess I could get away with many "sexualized" interactions because girls generally tend to see me as a "cute boy" rather than a "sexy guy", and as such did not take my escalation seriously?

Ever since I began studying social arts and reading GC a few months ago, I've become a lot more calm and collected in my demeanor. In my professional life some people have told me that my behaviour is very different from their first impression of me (especially after they've seen me in a public speaking event).

Now, my problem (and my biggest insecurity) is that my youthful look always give the impression of someone being "naive and inexperienced", especially when people meeting me for the first time. I believe it has an impact on my dating and professional lives, though I'll never know for sure what people think of me exactly. When I'm out with friends, I see my good-looking (especially white) friends who are far more insecure than I am getting a lot more attention and interests from girls than I do. I'd say people tend to see me as a "cute boy" rather than a "sexy guy", even though I'm generally a socially confident person.

So, what can I do about my dating life when I am born with a very youthful looking face? It surely does impact women's first impression of me as a sexually attractive man, especially since I'm almost 30 years old now. I've started working out a while ago to bulk up though it's going to take months if not years to offset my very skinny frame. Other than that I'm hope someone could offer some practical advice for my situation.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as another victim's mentality thread, and I am not blaming my race at all (I have seen Asian guys pulling all sorts of girls before though I have to admit they usually look more mature than I do). Any advice or practical solution would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Casanovelis]

So, what can I do about my dating life when I am born with a very youthful looking face? It surely does impact women's first impression of me as a sexually attractive man, especially since I'm almost 30 years old now. I've started working out a while ago to bulk up though it's going to take months if not years to offset my very skinny frame. Other than that I'm hope someone could offer some practical advice for my situation.

If you work out right it won't take that long. That is the #1 thing that I was thinking before I got to this part of the post. I too am fairly thin, and have started a smart strength training routine and am seeing results. (150, 6 feet tall) I had a REALLY hard time gaining because of a few factors: 1)Not adding weight and causing enough stress for adaptation. 2)Messing around with light dumbbells, not using barbells 3) Not eating enough.

I recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Stre...=1397907258&sr=8-1&keywords=starting+strength

Get this book. Study the core lifts (Squat, Deadlift, Press, Bench Press) and a few additional exercises. I prefer to add curls/rows. Eventually I am going to work Power Cleans into the mix. Get a journal and record each workout so you can add weight each time.

This is my workout 3 times a week: Monday, Wednesday Friday.

I have an A and a B day. One week I do A B A the next B A B.

A: Squats, Bench Press, Dead Lift, Curls B: Squats, Press, Bent Over Row, Upright Row

Mark Rippetoe explains the correct sets in the book.

Lift and eat. Im not even eating enough now but I am doing way better than before. Milk is good for bulking. Grow facial hair if you can.

 

[Swordfish]

If you work out right it won't take that long. That is the #1 thing that I was thinking before I got to this part of the post. I too am fairly thin, and have started a smart strength training routine and am seeing results. (150, 6 feet tall) I had a REALLY hard time gaining because of a few factors: 1)Not adding weight and causing enough stress for adaptation. 2)Messing around with light dumbbells, not using barbells 3) Not eating enough.

Thanks for the tip. I'm way worse, 130lbs, 5' 11" and speaking of bulking I actually had tried 4000 calories for a few weeks, but unfortunately rather than growing muscles ended up with quite a bit of fat around my waist, and ended up having to cut instead. I think should've trained harder rather than just twice a week (2 recovery days).

I think I'm also unfortunate enough to have the "skinny fat" genetics where the excess calories from binge eating just end up being accumulated as fat. As a result progress can be quite slow for my case since I have to keep watching my bodyfat percentage and can't go all out bulking like the "true ectomorphs" could. I don't know maybe I'm not doing it right.

Any other advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Estate]

I can identify,
I always have had somewhat of a "babyface". I've grown into it a little as I approach 30 but there's a few things you can look at....

For me, I was never "fat" but I was never ripped either. When I began to work out and get very lean my facial features showed a lot more. I have a strong jaw line and dimples but if I'm not very lean, my high cheek bones give me a very round face... everyone is different in this regard but working out in general will make you look and feel better.

A lot of it comes down to your facial expressions and attitude too. So read up on fundamentals. With a babyface, people can often mistake you as a little innocent... having a little attitude or swagger tends to be a nice surprise to people, I have found. I learned this from someone I know who's not into Pickup but has always been good with women. He has similar features to me but carries a slightly arrogant attitude. Not obnoxious but when you meet him, he comes across very strong so immediately it puts to rest any pre-conceptions you may have about him.

I also learned a few things about facial expressions from him. In every photo I see of him on social media, he never really smiles, he always gives a sort of cocky half smile with the corner of his mouth. I adopted this and it makes a huge difference. Having a big wide smile only adds to the innocent or babyface look. I've taken to walking with a slight "smirk" out of the corner of my mouth and it actually draws a lot of positive attention as opposed to having a cheesy smile or just a deadpan face.

Have a look at the fundamentals articles on this site. Lots of good stuff about attitudes, facial expressions, etc...

Lastly, experiment with facial hair. Different looks suit different people but could you pull off a little stubble, a few days old? Or maybe a little goatee on your chin? I found this can also transform someone if they find the right look.

 

[Casanovelis]

If you work out right it won't take that long. That is the #1 thing that I was thinking before I got to this part of the post. I too am fairly thin, and have started a smart strength training routine and am seeing results. (150, 6 feet tall) I had a REALLY hard time gaining because of a few factors: 1)Not adding weight and causing enough stress for adaptation. 2)Messing around with light dumbbells, not using barbells 3) Not eating enough.

Thanks for the tip. I'm way worse, 130lbs, 5' 11" and speaking of bulking I actually had tried 4000 calories for a few weeks, but unfortunately rather than growing muscles ended up with quite a bit of fat around my waist, and ended up having to cut instead. I think should've trained harder rather than just twice a week (2 recovery days).

I think I'm also unfortunate enough to have the "skinny fat" genetics where the excess calories from binge eating just end up being accumulated as fat. As a result progress can be quite slow for my case since I have to keep watching my bodyfat percentage and can't go all out bulking like the "true ectomorphs" could. I don't know maybe I'm not doing it right.

Any other advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Give the book a try. Read it beginning to end and learn the lifts with correct technique. Buy a notebook and keep record so you can up the weights each time. The book goes in depth on all of this.

Honestly you will gain, and gain relatively quickly. At 5'11 130 lbs you have a HUGE amount of physical potential/gains to be had. I believe you just have not trained smart or hard enough.

It will make more of a man of you both mentally/physically.

 

[Swordfish]

I can identify,
I always have had somewhat of a "babyface". I've grown into it a little as I approach 30 but there's a few things you can look at....

For me, I was never "fat" but I was never ripped either. When I began to work out and get very lean my facial features showed a lot more. I have a strong jaw line and dimples but if I'm not very lean, my high cheek bones give me a very round face... everyone is different in this regard but working out in general will make you look and feel better.

A lot of it comes down to your facial expressions and attitude too. So read up on fundamentals. With a babyface, people can often mistake you as a little innocent... having a little attitude or swagger tends to be a nice surprise to people, I have found. I learned this from someone I know who's not into Pickup but has always been good with women. He has similar features to me but carries a slightly arrogant attitude. Not obnoxious but when you meet him, he comes across very strong so immediately it puts to rest any pre-conceptions you may have about him.

I also learned a few things about facial expressions from him. In every photo I see of him on social media, he never really smiles, he always gives a sort of cocky half smile with the corner of his mouth. I adopted this and it makes a huge difference. Having a big wide smile only adds to the innocent or babyface look. I've taken to walking with a slight "smirk" out of the corner of my mouth and it actually draws a lot of positive attention as opposed to having a cheesy smile or just a deadpan face.

Have a look at the fundamentals articles on this site. Lots of good stuff about attitudes, facial expressions, etc...

Lastly, experiment with facial hair. Different looks suit different people but could you pull off a little stubble, a few days old? Or maybe a little goatee on your chin? I found this can also transform someone if they find the right look.

Thanks for the input, Estate.

Actually this is kind of my personality. I've always been a bit of the "bad boy" type despite my innocent look, though occasionally I can be very sweet to the girls, and this has driven a few girls crazy (as in very excited about me). When I forget about how I look I can interact with anyone very easily, even rather sexually with girls that I find very good looking. Having said that, my fundamentals are far from perfect. Sometimes I am very self conscious about how my seductive eye contact would look on such a boyish face. Depending on the day, sometimes I'd cringe at myself in front of the mirror.

Despite my ostensibly "bad boy" persona, and sometimes very strong chase and sexual framing (perhaps a bit too much and can come off as "too blunt" to the girls), I'm actually very inexperienced with women. That means when it comes to escalation with hot girls, I always have that nagging voice in my head that says "no way will such a hot girl goes out with someone who looks like a kid (though I can easily be 5-7 years older than the girl in question). What would people think when they see us? What would she think??" and would have my earlier confidence shaken a fair bit.

Admittedly, I've been rejected a few times and I'm not sure if I'm rejected for my looks or because my approach was off (I haven't escalated with enough girls to tell, though I know that I lose my confidence every time I am alone with a girl when it's time to escalate, simply because I'm too inexperienced and at this point will be very self conscious about my youthful look). Also seeing that girls sometimes give more attention to other guys that aren't as "interesting" reinforced the notion that my look is actually impeding the girls' attraction to me.

That's not to say there aren't girls that dig me, it's just that they tend to be on the cute/innocent side that I'm not so attracted to anymore (I'm almost 30 years old remember...)

As for facial hair, as Casanovelis has also suggested, unfortunately it's very hard for me to grow a beard (most likely because of my Asian genes), stubble is next to impossible, so I can't really capitalize on this.

It's annoying that my face is probably the only part that I can't change about myself, I guess the only solution is to bulk up my physique then?

 

[Swordfish]

Give the book a try. Read it beginning to end and learn the lifts with correct technique. Buy a notebook and keep record so you can up the weights each time. The book goes in depth on all of this.

Honestly you will gain, and gain relatively quickly. At 5'11 130 lbs you have a HUGE amount of physical potential/gains to be had. I believe you just have not trained smart or hard enough.

It will make more of a man of you both mentally/physically.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'd love to give it a try, though the only problem is that due to the nature of my profession, I have very irregular work schedule and as a result I have committed to bodyweight training regime instead. This anytime, anywhere program works for me because I simply cannot predict my work schedule and still know that I can train at home anytime after work, sometimes way past midnight.

The dilemma is actually whether to lose my skinny fat first then bulk from scratch (I don't know my exact bodyfat percentage, but I can pinch a fair bit of skin on my waist, which you don't see in truly skinny people), and this takes time so I will need to go for a few months getting even thinner, or to screw that and just bulk up, risk gaining some fat, and then cut it later?

 

[Casanovelis]

Give the book a try. Read it beginning to end and learn the lifts with correct technique. Buy a notebook and keep record so you can up the weights each time. The book goes in depth on all of this.

Honestly you will gain, and gain relatively quickly. At 5'11 130 lbs you have a HUGE amount of physical potential/gains to be had. I believe you just have not trained smart or hard enough.

It will make more of a man of you both mentally/physically.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'd love to give it a try, though the only problem is that due to the nature of my profession, I have very irregular work schedule and as a result I have committed to bodyweight training regime instead. This anytime, anywhere program works for me because I simply cannot predict my work schedule and still know that I can train at home anytime after work, sometimes way past midnight.

The dilemma is actually whether to lose my skinny fat first then bulk from scratch (I don't know my exact bodyfat percentage, but I can pinch a fair bit of skin on my waist, which you don't see in truly skinny people), and this takes time so I will need to go for a few months getting even thinner, or to screw that and just bulk up, risk gaining some fat, and then cut it later?

Bulk first, cut later. The problem with bodyweight training is it is increasingly hard to add resistance, which is the stimulus that makes you grow.

 

[Swordfish]

Bulk first, cut later. The problem with bodyweight training is it is increasingly hard to add resistance, which is the stimulus that makes you grow.

Thanks. I'm trying to implement hitting the gym into my very irregular work schedule, but at the same time I'm also doing the harder variants of bodyweight training that keeps me within the 6-12 reps range.


Now, having closely examined my interactions with people, I notice that there are two problems that I usually come across:

1) I have a tendency to "overcompensate" my boyish look with aggressive social behavior (e.g. overly "blunt" chase and sexual frame), and I believe this is driving some girls who were initially attracted to me away. I'm still generally a likeable person, but there's obviously the necessity to re-calibrate my attitude when it comes to girls.

Now, I realize the main problem is that I have no role model or reference point to look or study from. Most attractive guys that I know (both in real life and from TV) have looks that are congruent with their attractiveness.

I've never come across someone who looks very young (I'm talking about a 30-year old Asian guy still looking like he's in high school) yet at the same time exudes sexuality and dominance in a manner that can be perceived as a "sexy man", instead of the usual first impression of "nice", "naive" or "innocent" boy. (Any suggestion/recommendation of role models here would be very welcome, thanks!)

How do I behave in a way that is not too blunt/strong to the extent that it put girls off yet not too nice (mostly because I have the "nice guy" look) that girls would just think of me as "the friendly guy"?



2) I have noted that in many social situations there will be some people who'd perceive my youthful look as being "weak" and try to put me down, especially when they've seen me talking to the girls.

Now even though I'm quite the loud and social person, I'm by no means the "alpha" male. When going out drinking, I just like to chill and talk to people, bring fun to them.

I'm not someone with the looks that'd naturally "command respect" from people, and this means that often I'd have guys that I "kind of" know from the social circle trying to out-dominate me in front of the girls (e.g. putting arms around me, being sarcastic etc).

I usually just respond with slightly amused smile and being nonchalant about it, but sometimes it gets annoying because admittedly I'm physically weaker and also look a lot younger than these guys.

How should I respond in social situations like this in a socially savvy manner to remain in control even though physically I look weaker than them?

I've always avoided escalation or trying to out-dominate people as I never thought of this as a socially savvy way to handle situations (as Chase have written in some of his articles).

Any suggestions or input to add to this topic will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Glitch]

Being an East-Asian ethnic myself I'm slightly curious how this may impact my approach during later years, currently I have not even broken my 20's.

Personally I believe it to be a good thing. Most asians appear youthful with respect to their age, however a youthful appearance can be obtained with good diet and maintenance regardless of ethnicity.

If you are a bit on the slim side just start out with some weights. You can easily just get some free weights for home and set aside 30 min/1 hr of the day, with a good diet you can see improvements pretty quickly. I've got a lot of comments from both sexes about my physique and with the asian youthful look is a pretty good combo that's working for me.

Lifting:

• Research compund movements to maxmise efficiency.
  
  Also look at 're-feeds' and 'mini bulking and cutting cycles'. May be a better option instead of a classic bulk and cut? Recommend researching and talking to more experienced members, as I personally go for relative strength in my competative sports. I don't really lift for recreation as I'm involved in different sports that place emphasis on different muscles.

Diet:

• 
  Make sure the diet is full of good stuff, your usual veg, fish and meats. Drink lots of water. Make sure you do include at least some carbs in the diet too.

This comes from a fellow asian: I was involved in swimming a lot from a very young age however was teased a bit during primary school as I still looked slightly 'chubby'??? even though it was muscle. When I hit 12/13 the puppy fat started coming off and was left with the swimmer look.

Social Calibration:

• 
  Right on the money on your thoughts, there's no point in getting worked up about small things. It also loses you points with the girls if they see it. Just stick to your guns, if they try to poke you just go about it with casual non-chalant attitude and feign disinterest/go with the bored look resuming back to whatever you were doing.
  
  How big you are doesn't have much to with your usual social situations, use the brain to counter. You can turn it around with some witty, light quips, developing a sharp mind to think of quips on the spot is very fun; I'm not very big myself weight/height wise and use these techniques. I have also been impressed with some 'skinnies' that come up with good counter riposte against incoming jabs. The ladies were also very impressed with the quick wit.
  
  However I'm not sure if this fits into your personal style or may be you can integrate it into your own style. I'm naturally a reserved and observant person but use dry humour, quips when it comes to playful social interaction/jabs. Can't give you any pointer on how to start doing it as it was something that came naturally to me and started doing it more often as I got more sexual with girls. It just comes as a reflex now.
  
  If your dealing with the standard party/laddy boy don't sweat the small stuff. You can add muscles later, most of them forget to work out the things between their ears. So if you got a sharp wit use it and abuse it.

Glitch

 

[Swordfish]

Being an East-Asian ethnic myself I'm slightly curious how this may impact my approach during later years, currently I have not even broken my 20's.

Personally I believe it to be a good thing. Most asians appear youthful with respect to their age, however a youthful appearance can be obtained with good diet and maintenance regardless of ethnicity.

If you are a bit on the slim side just start out with some weights. You can easily just get some free weights for home and set aside 30 min/1 hr of the day, with a good diet you can see improvements pretty quickly. I've got a lot of comments from both sexes about my physique and with the asian youthful look is a pretty good combo that's

Hey Glitch, thanks for your input. Good to see another East Asian around as well.

When I said I look very young, I actually meant that I look younger than your average Asian in their 20-30s, with soft/feminine facial features (think of those very boyish looking K-pop idols with semi-long hairstyle, although I'm not very good looking myself).

I've actually had a very young-looking Asian girl surprised to learn my age and told me that I definitely don't look my age. It's funny. And I agree.

Having said that, I don't really have trouble attracting younger Asian girls, but when it comes to white girls or the more mature-looking Asian girls, it gets significantly harder for them to be attracted especially through first impression alone. I hope bulking up could offset this 'negative' trait a bit, though I will always have the 'innocent boy still in high school' look.

As for my personality, you can think of me as a loud, social person who doesn't really have trouble getting sexual with girls, which is very incongruent with my looks and lately I've noticed my tendency to come across as too strong (likely a subconscious effort to not be seen as a friendly guy, given my youthful looks) that I've actually scared away some girls.

However since I'm also very inexperienced with women, when it comes to escalation I almost always stuff up, despite having been the confident guy earlier on. I've been rejected a few times during escalation and I've always wondered if it's my approach or my youthful looks (the girls in question are actually a lot younger than me, but all of them have looks that are much more mature than I do).

As I've said in my earlier post, I also realize that I don't really have a role model or reference point to study from i.e. someone who looks very young but can be seen as a desirable 'sexy man' instead of a 'friendly, innocent boy'. For example, my hero Bruce Lee definitely have the facial features of a tough Asian guy, which I unfortunately don't. Any suggestions here would be very welcome indeed.

 

[Glitch]

Good to have an insight on your thoughts.

Yea I'd just focus on putting on some muscle first, it will definitely offset the boyish look into a more manly look. Get some free weights; York brand is a decent set at moderate pricing, even comes with an excercise routine.

Just a though, why not post a picture that is similar to your own facial structure. That way we can help with more ideas to work around it, for example you can try different hairstyles to 'take away' some of that younger look and put in some more edge. There's a nice thread Pato started to discuss cuts.

With western girls and I'd say in particular the 'idolised all american girl' dominance is a deciding factor. (With the ones I've come across in England) With Asian/Eastern European/More traditional girls I can get away with coming on with a softer angle. However with the more boisterous girls you have a much higher chance when playing hard and fast, I still find myself surprised what I can get away with and actually adds to the sexual tension. So it's always encouraged to push little by little to see what you can get away with.

With escalating I think we were all like that at one point or another, I used to think what society was thinking of me doing this and would keep putting off the obvious invitations and not moving fast, missed a lot of possibilities. The only way is to keep at the grind, I recommend setting up one goal for a series of interactions so you can focus on one thing at a time. Any interactions that felt forced or misplayed just go to the board and reflect on it. After you found it then make that the second goal and work on it till you nail that down. Rinse and repeat.

Don't worry with the inexperience thing just play and have fun. If there's something in your mind that keeps saying you should be doing and your hesitating, 99% you should be doing it. Such as should you be moving faster? Yes! Sexual tension high, I want manhandle kiss her? Yes!

With coming off too strong, as Chase and anothers have mentioned in the early stages you just go out and get reference points. So don't look at them as failures or anything, you're just honing down on what works! Eventually you will find a balance so that your game with fit with your own personal style. In my personal experience it's better to go more to the asshole spectrum end as it will avoid the pedestal and allow you to be more aggressive and confident. Then dial it back slightly if you want the classic sauveness. When I was messing about nice guy definitely get you nowhere 90% the time, there was a time I was playing nice and she got really pissed off and blew her top. All's well in the name of science.

Role models: Bruce Lee, one of my favourites. Incredible feats such as 2 finger push ups but what I find is his determination to walk again even after what the doctor said. I do like Donnie Yen quite a bit too, some slight arrogance but still an interesting guy.

Standards include (Even fictional): James Bond, D. Craig, Clooney, Downey Jr. (See his younger picture to what he is now, massive change. Looks a lot better now in my opinion).

With East Asian role models in specific it's hard to find one in this type of category. If you want role models outside e.g for music/dance/knowledge etc. I can give you quite a few. Personally I think that East Asian males are still mainly finding their own indentity when it comes to a more sexual game but then again I still hope that the culture is not lost. (I'm learning Mandarin now after I learnt about Chinese cooking, already knew Cantonese) Having a model body is something to aspire to, a goal I am currently going towards.

Just a thought, what about anybody in your family? To be honest my parents/older generation still define a part of me. Might be the classic Asian family thing.
But the things they went through e.g Chinese Invasion, all the hardships moving overseas etc. to get where they are and give me a damn good childhood is something I better damn well not forget.

To be honest role models can be found anywhere whether it be fictional or real. Pick parts you like from them and discard the rest and eventually you will turn yourself into those that you looked up to.

This is why self-improvement in general is stressed quite a lot.

Keep climbing as there's always a bigger mountain to conquer, keep climbing Swordfish.

Glitch

 

[Swordfish]

Good to have an insight on your thoughts.

No worries. Nice to hear your thoughts as well.

Yea I'd just focus on putting on some muscle first, it will definitely offset the boyish look into a more manly look. Get some free weights; York brand is a decent set at moderate pricing, even comes with an excercise routine.

Yes that's what I'm currently starting to do, although I'm more of the skinny fat type where if I go into binge eating mode I usually end up with more fat than muscle.

Just a though, why not post a picture that is similar to your own facial structure. That way we can help with more ideas to work around it, for example you can try different hairstyles to 'take away' some of that younger look and put in some more edge. There's a nice thread Pato started to discuss cuts.

Speaking of hair, it's something that makes my life difficult as well. I have kind of a longish face with a pointy top (unlike your average Asian which are usually broader at the top) and unfortunately I have very flat straight hair (which makes many girls jealous, but also makes it extremely difficult for styling, think after wearing a helmet for a long period of time) as well as a very high forehead (makes me look like I have receding hairline even though I've had it since very young).

As a result I'm more or less stuck with a longish hair that mostly covers my forehead (think of those metrosexual-looking Kpop idols).

I wish I could pull off the shorter, spiky hair style but with my very high forehead it looks very bad on me. I wish I could shave off the hair as well but with my soft facial features it only makes me look like a kid, which is equally bad.

Don't worry with the inexperience thing just play and have fun. If there's something in your mind that keeps saying you should be doing and your hesitating, 99% you should be doing it. Such as should you be moving faster? Yes! Sexual tension high, I want manhandle kiss her? Yes!

Yes this is something that I need to learn through sheer experience. Usually by escalation all the confident, playful and sexy facade that I've built up previously just crumbles when things start to get heavy.

With coming off too strong, as Chase and anothers have mentioned in the early stages you just go out and get reference points. So don't look at them as failures or anything, you're just honing down on what works! Eventually you will find a balance so that your game with fit with your own personal style. In my personal experience it's better to go more to the asshole spectrum end as it will avoid the pedestal and allow you to be more aggressive and confident. Then dial it back slightly if you want the classic sauveness. When I was messing about nice guy definitely get you nowhere 90% the time, there was a time I was playing nice and she got really pissed off and blew her top. All's well in the name of science.

Yes, actually I've always been a bit of an asshole and I've been called arrogant by many girls, despite my youthful looks.

I don't know if I've gotten away with this because I look very young and therefore girls just don't take me seriously, or that they genuinely like the way I behave.

Also I have this tendency to go overboard, probably reflective of my own insecurity that looking so young needs to be compensated by an even more aggressive style. Depending on the girl, I know I've scared away some girls who were very attracted to me before. Need to calibrate.

Role models: Bruce Lee, one of my favourites. Incredible feats such as 2 finger push ups but what I find is his determination to walk again even after what the doctor said. I do like Donnie Yen quite a bit too, some slight arrogance but still an interesting guy.

Standards include (Even fictional): James Bond, D. Craig, Clooney, Downey Jr. (See his younger picture to what he is now, massive change. Looks a lot better now in my opinion).

With East Asian role models in specific it's hard to find one in this type of category. If you want role models outside e.g for music/dance/knowledge etc. I can give you quite a few. Personally I think that East Asian males are still mainly finding their own indentity when it comes to a more sexual game but then again I still hope that the culture is not lost. (I'm learning Mandarin now after I learnt about Chinese cooking, already knew Cantonese) Having a model body is something to aspire to, a goal I am currently going towards.

When I said role model I meant someone with a very boyish look but can still pull off the 'sexy guy' style rather than the 'funny, friendly and innocent guy' style, in terms of seducing women.

Most masculine role models (in real life and the fictional ones that you've listed) have the tough guy looks (or at least mature looking enough) that are totally congruent with their masculine behaviour.

Role models are very useful to study and learn from, in terms of fundamentals and how they interact with people. But then if you imagine a skinny, boyish-looking man trying to imitate a tough guy, that just wouldn't work, and may even appear comical.

I hope there is some sort of a right balance for a boyish-looking guy like me to pull off the 'sexy guy' style, but then without a role model to study from, I might be left to experiment by myself. That's why I've been asking for suggestions for role models/personalities who have this boyish look but still a successful seducer.

Just a thought, what about anybody in your family? To be honest my parents/older generation still define a part of me. Might be the classic Asian family thing.
But the things they went through e.g Chinese Invasion, all the hardships moving overseas etc. to get where they are and give me a damn good childhood is something I better damn well not forget.

To be honest role models can be found anywhere whether it be fictional or real. Pick parts you like from them and discard the rest and eventually you will turn yourself into those that you looked up to.

All of my family members look way more mature than me with respect to age. I'm the only one in my family that still looks like a boy. (and I never worried about this growing up until I hit my mid-20s, when I noticed people around me have actually 'grown up' apart from myself)

This is why self-improvement in general is stressed quite a lot.

Keep climbing as there's always a bigger mountain to conquer, keep climbing Swordfish.

Glitch

Sure thing. Thanks for your lengthy input, they're very helpful indeed!