All about flaking...

[Landlord]

Boys, haven't posted in a while.
Have a spectacular D1 LR with a 26 yr old blonde HB8.5 that I ran some very good text game on, but dont know how to post up images of the text exchange.

meanwhile, been on the road, 30 days in Thailand (ahem...no game required) and 20 days in Tel Aviv (spectacularly gorgeous women everywhere)

I started to do DIRECT approaches, for the first time ever, with stellar results.
Picked up a perfect 10 brunette on the beach.
approached very direct, said "I stopped by for a minute to watch the ocean, couldnt help but notice you, had to come say hello."
It went well...open body language, calm/slow voice tone, open exposed hands, eye contact.
Bingo—she was reading, in hebrew, "Shades of Grey"...easy material to tease her with.
instant nickname (Anastasia), and she started calling me "Mr Grey."

Called and went on a date 2 days later,
lots of fun, groping and snogging.
and then a swimming/beach date a day later.
Lots of kissing, a bit of petting and terrific deep diving talk.
Walking hand in hand on the boardwalk, a few special coincidences.....thinking I could fall for this girl, but kept my cool and kept tension.
Wonderful woman, very happy with the results of my direct approach.

On the second date she asked to see me the very next day for date 3...at her house...there was talk about Hummus being smothered and licked off our bodies.
At midnight that day, she texted me with some Chinese words she looked up (because I speak Chinese)

Then—next morning—11:30am—flaked on our plans today!
Said she had a birthday party she "forgot" about.
I waited an hour to respond. The said "see what happens when you read rubbish books? your mind starts to go!"
My thinking was to show I wasn't pissed nor took it too seriously, but keep it fun, friendly playful.

No reply from her.
No attempt to reschedule.
Feels like she went into auto reject, had second thoughts, met someone else, or some such thing.

SO strange, as just 11 hours prior she was obviously into it.


ANY THOUGHTS BOYS?
NEED ADVICE.

 

[Franco]

LL, good to see you back!

Let's start with the usual question or two:

Called and went on a date 2 days later,
lots of fun, groping and snogging.

...and then a swimming/beach date a day later.

Is there a particular reason you didn't seal the deal on the first date? If so, what was that reason, and was it known before you scheduled the date?

- Franco

 

[Landlord]

Franco!

Good question.
WHY NOT?

1. it was a weeknight and ended late
2. it turned out to be a foursome, as my best mate arrived in town by surprise an hour or so before the date, and my girl invited a friend for him
3. I just started staying at someone's house / not great to bring someone back yet....and she lives 30 minutes outside of town

WHY NOT on the second (spontaneous) date?
1. again logistics....could have more easily brought her back to mine that day, and perhaps should have, but she lives far away
2. both she and I had somewhere to be

excuses all if you boil them down.... but reasonable ones.
I have to believe there is middle ground between "shag them on the first date" and "total auto-reject fizzle out"

Since Date 3 was meant to be at her house, and it was well understood what would happen there, my intuition is she woke up thinking about it in the morning, panicked or auto rejected and then flaked. Or it could be a shit test...but my reaction was pretty cool, and she ignored it.

 

[ProblemSolving]

Hey Landlord,

The problem was that she painted herself into a corner with the sexual talk that was suppose to go down on the 3rd date. Women always want the OPTION to back out of a sexual situation if she's not feeling it. The overt sexual talk before hand eliminated that option; hence, the flaking. You also kind of ruin the movie by revealing the ending half way through which kills all the intrigue.

Even if the woman is the first to start the overt sexual talk, it's best not to get sucked in and pile on. Instead, deflect it away so she doesn't feel obligated to put out when you see her again.

 

[Landlord]

Hey Landlord,

The problem was that she painted herself into a corner with the sexual talk that was suppose to go down on the 3rd date. Women always want the OPTION to back out of a sexual situation if she's not feeling it. The overt sexual talk before hand eliminated that option; hence, the flaking. You also kind of ruin the movie by revealing the ending half way through which kills all the intrigue.

Even if the woman is the first to start the overt sexual talk, it's best not to get sucked in and pile on. Instead, deflect it away so she doesn't feel obligated to put out when you see her again.

PROBLEM SOLVING—

You are right. Exactly right. Everything happened so fast and she wasn't ready.
Truth is—I wasn't either, but I have limited time here so I wanted to move it forward.
I became obsessed with 'closing the deal' both sexually and in terms of securing the relationship, I got needy and turned into a total wuss.
Damn shame because she was the best one I've met in 2 years since my divorce, and she was really digging me until I turned into a big baby.

What she needed me to do was chill out, not pressure, not be needy, wait a few days, pretend it never happened, and ask her out again for something really simple and mild. She would have loved the strength and coolness about that and I probably would have gotten the results I wanted.

I totally blew that. Embarrassed to go into the details, it doesn't matter.
Being flaked on hits a raw nerve for me and I proceeded to make a shit sandwich out of it.

I'm going to have one last "hail Mary" attempt to see her in a day or two, but 99% I can't sell her back in on this.
(And if you have any great advice on that, please dish that shit up!)

Other points:
—I do NOT agree about avoiding sexual talk (innuendo I mean, not totally overt), but that's another story.
—What finally got my head around to the right place is I went out and sarged like a Mo-fo last night, met another really sexy lady who I could snap up in a second.
Sense of abundance restored!

Can hardly believe I was myself the last couple of days.
THIS IS THE POWER OF FLAKING!!!!!

 

[Landlord]

Franco, feel free to bust me down to tool bearing hominid over this one!
I blew it BIg Time!

yes, she might just be a flaky party girl, and I might have a 'right' to be pissed off about it.
But I had the knowledge, experience and control to handle this one better, and I didn't.
You know what pissed me off?

1. The short timeframe between her giving me all the lovey dovey and giving me the complete cold brush off

2. The fact that she did not even say "i am sorry" for the flake (which supports the 'bitch theory')

3. The fact that my response to her flake (which was cool and funny) did not get even an LOL

4. The fact that a link I sent her on FB the next day (which I had promised to send the next day) was seen, but not acknowledged



I took her rude flake to mean so much more than it probably did, it hurt my precious, precious ego...and I got pissed.

best advice for men not only with women, but in life: SEPARATE YOUR SENSE OF SELF FROM YOUR EGO. They are NOT the same thing!

 

[Sly]

Landlord,

Congrats on even getting that far with an Israeli girl. Obviously not closing is frustrating but as we've discussed previously Israeli girls are honestly the toughest to crack. So cold approaching an Israeli girl and getting numerous dates, is a step up from most foreigners!

After reading the scenario I agree we the fact that you made a vital error by not escalating on the first or second date. Yes, your excuses are legitimate but that all should have been considered beforehand. It's evident you are no amateur and you know what you're doing, but you mistakenly overlooked a key factor which would have lead to sleeping with this girl- LOGISTICS! We both know Logistics is easily in the TOP 3 most important factors to sleeping with a woman. As well, although your logistic excuse is somewhat reasonable as your places were far from the venue, you said you were on the boardwalk of the BEACH! C'mon LL, you had the perfect venue to score with this girl! While in Israel in May, I know various people who pulled the Tel-Aviv beach hook up.

Because of your logistics fail, coupled with the fact that you brought a sexual vibe but didn't follow through with it that date, I think you confused/disappointed her! She was kissing you and you were feeling her up and didn't act on it. She obviously wanted you but in her eyes, I believe she looked at you as a man not man enough to take it- while we both know you are from all your previous LRs! Escalation window was open, all you needed to do was pull aside the curtain...

I don't mean to be too harsh or critical, but I can tell that you're one who takes constructive criticism quite well. When it boils down to it, unfortunately you were off your game. We all make mistakes and must learn from them. I do think it's worth a hail mary in the form of inviting her out to somewhere she probably can't resist and then making sure you move fast, but other than that you live and learn!

SLY

 

[Franco]

LL,

Sorry, I had been meaning to get back to you on this one.

I pretty much second everything that Sly mentioned above. You built sexual tension and then didn't capitalize on it. And then you continued to build so much sexual tension over phone conversation (or texting) that you pinned her in a corner, which is what ProblemSolving was referring to.

The main thing to learn behind this interaction is that sexual tension needs to be followed up by sex! If for whatever reason you absolutely can't bed a girl during a given interaction, then you want to aim to be more "mysterious" with small, sexual innuendos rather than just being blatantly sexual. Otherwise, one of two things will happen:

• 1) She'll be upset that she thought you were going to give her what she wanted (sex) but didn't follow through.
  2) She'll feel pressure to give you sex on the next date, and in between dates, you give her time to think about it on her own.

And when you give a girl time in between dates to think about whether or not she wants to have sex with you (as opposed to her still wondering what you're all about), then she'll usually choose to just not go through with it altogether as the pressure becomes too much.

So build sexual tension on dates where you want to have sex; build mysteriousness on dates where you are hoping to get another date. But if possible, try to schedule dates where you can close then and there! That solves this problem altogether.

- Franco

 

[Landlord]

Sly, you are right about all of that...
And whats more is that she SAYS she is confused now,
and I even went to her house after everything fell to shit and she tried to friend zone me.
Adamant that I not even kiss her, etc.

And yet we did end up making out a bit and cuddling on the couch.

And yet now she has shut me out, doesn't want to see me. (but still says she is confused)

anyway it is too messy now.

 

[Landlord]

"So build sexual tension on dates where you want to have sex; build mysteriousness on dates where you are hoping to get another date."

new element to understand/incorporate into my game.
Hadn't ever thought of it like this.
Thanks Franco, and all.

The final update is that when I left her place last week, she said "I am so confused" and texted me "I promise I'll call"
but of course no call. We spoke a couple days later (I rang her, she rang me back) and she said she's not comfortable, she doesn't know when I'm coming back,
thinks I have a lot of girls, etc. Totally ironic because I am mortally ill with the one-itus and would gladly have no others.

I let it go for a week, called her, now she doesn't pick up.
The End.

I Did score on a D2 with a lovely Indian/Moroccan HB7-8 in TLV
and made a club pull home in Jerusalem of an Ethiopian Jewess so young I'm embarrassed to say here.
Actually—my best friend flew in from Europe and we pulled them back to our (shared) twin hotel room....craziness.

Plus more number closes than I can remember, and a few decent dates.
But my One-itus needs more than that to be cured.
Moral of the story: Israeli girls are hot, but crazy.

The End.

 

[Landlord]

Franco and sly--- come back to me on this old posting will you?
Pinged her every once in a blue moon over the past few months
She always responded but never enthusiastically

Few weeks back she "liked" a photo of me with a girl I was sort of seeing at the time

Ran into her best friend Saturday so I rang her for the first time in six months
Right away she asked to see me

Thought about and decided a pre emptive flake was in order--- just to
Reset completely back to my original, non needy self, but promised to call before weekend to
Reschedule which I will.

Gents.... What advice have you?
Play it cool and let her simmer?
Turn on the heat and go for broke?

What say you?

 

[Franco]

LL,

Can't say I'm a big fan of chasing after girls that have already determined that you're chasing them. The problem with the scenario you described is that she does like you, but it sounds like you've been boyfriend-zoned a long time ago.

What that's going to mean is that she'll constantly try to keep you within arm's reach of her as an "option" in case no other long-term prospects fall into place for her (and we all know how that goes). So moving things toward sex at this point would be quite difficult, even if you were to see her.

The most tactical approach might actually involve flaking on her to gather investment on her part, but at this point, you might be distracting yourself a bit too much with this one. It's one thing to ping a girl who hasn't processed you into a category (friend/boyfriend/lover) and lost contact with awhile ago, but it's another to ping a girl who's already been on a date with you several times and has determined you are a guy she wants to keep as an orbiter because of your value.

My advice would be to drop the girl (especially since this one has obviously been running in your mind since last summer, which means she's been playing her cards very well to keep you chasing), but if you feel like you want to give it one last "hurrah," you could try to set something up quickly and push for the close on the first get together. Don't be surprised if the results are less than satisfactory though -- the chances of success with girls that have put you in this situation is minimal.

Make sure to have some dates with other women lined up for the week either way.

- Franco

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

I think that even if you were to somehow recover this, lay her, and make her your main squeeze, you've invested so much in her that she'd hold your balls in her hand the entire walk of the relationship.

My best advice, truly, is

"Like a shooting star, a mirage, a flame, An optical illusion, dewdrops, bubbles in water, A dream, a lightning-flash, and a cloud: Thus consider all composite things."

Good luck, my brother!

 

[Landlord]

Franco,

You've been right about everything with this one so far, so you're probably right that there's little to no chance of anything here happening. I get that, and I have two other dates this week plus one party girl maybe.

And and atman--- poetic! When it comes time to say I told you so please do the honors!
But.....

I WANT to be boyfriend material with this one.
I would RATHER be authentic about that and fail than not try.
My best quality is persistence and consistency!
And in my nearly 15000 earthly rotations I've learned some self discipline I normally apply.


The date is going to happen....
The only question is do I hold way back, play aloof and leave her wondering and wanting:
https://www.girlschase.com/content/ultim ... -girl-back

Or just turn up the sexy and go for broke?
Either way... I'm giving it my best shot and letting the chips fall where they may.
There's not going to be any regrets on this one.

Strategically---- what do you like for a game plan?

 

[Franco]

LL,

I'll address this first:

I WANT to be boyfriend material with this one.

This is a mindset you need to change, then. The number ONE primary idea that is conveyed on this website is that the man who makes himself the lover is the one who ends up with both sex and relationships. You never, EVER want to present yourself as boyfriend material, and if you feel like you conveyed yourself that way to some girl, you should be smacking yourself on the head and realizing that you messed up. The "boyfriend" route isn't even a POSSIBILITY until you sleep with her, which is why the word "boyfriend" shouldn't even be uttered from your mouth until long after you're laying beside her naked in a bed of soaked sheets.

I highly advise you read (and re-read) this article just to make sure that that point is emphasized:

The Early Boyfriend: Why It's a Bad Idea

The only question is do I hold way back, play aloof and leave her wondering and wanting...

Or just turn up the sexy and go for broke?

There's really no good answer for ya here, bud. At this point, both paths are shots in the dark. Canceling on her could create some intrigue and possibly escalate her interest level suddenly, but you also haven't seen her in forever and risk missing an opportunity if she decides she can't re-schedule. Similarly, seeing her finally because she agreed to see you seems too easy, and it might be her way of just making sure that she still "has" you chasing her (by getting to see you every once in a great while). But on the bright side, you could just go for broke and either get her, or cut her out of your life; if you were to cancel and can't get anther date scheduled, then you might just end up chasing her again, and that wouldn't do you any good.

Remember, the advice we give on this website is advice geared toward doing everything right from the beginning. The second you mess things up and try to "backtrack" and fix things is the second your chances go significantly down the drain, and there is no "surefire" way of making things work again, which is why we advise doing things correctly in the first place or moving on to the next girl until you start executing things correctly from beginning to end with each new girl.

EDIT: Moved this to the "General" board.

- Franco

 

[Landlord]

You're right.... Too outcome dependent.
The new attitude is I'll see her when I want,
Have fun spending time with a beautiful woman,
Maybe get a photo to make some of my other female friends jealous on fb
Run my usual teasing touching and leading game
Set up the logistics and Try to bed her if I'm feeling it
And not give a fuck about anything else.
There are tons if amazing women here and I can have ten more.
If she works hard enough maybe I'll be her boyfriend but
I don't even know her well enough to say for sure yet

Thanks for setting me straight Franco.