Am i correct in this? Do i have no chance?

[Ryan]

I usually always trust my gut when i'm with girls to tell whether they like me or not. And my gut tells me that this girl has absolutely no interest in me, and was just being polite (she's Japanese after all). Which was a shame, because I had the best conversation with her, than any other girl in months (maybe because she was actually bothered to partake in a conversation with me!).

But, I want to be wrong. I like this girl, and I've never had a date before, kissed a girl, held a girl's hand, etc. I want to see if I can at least complete one of those with her.

I wrote it all in my journal (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3844), but I don't want to write it again, so I will copy and paste:

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Girl 1:

I met Girl 1 at the starbucks (described above in day 1, as the first place I should go to find women). She was a pretty Japanese girl who was near enough my age (she was 20 years old). She had headphones on and was busy on her laptop, so I waited for the opportune moment to start a conversation. I saw on her laptop (discreetly) that she went to the university nearby my own. When she seemed 'less busy', I began my conversation:

N.B. Before I begin, please note this is a Japanese girl, who, true to the stereotype- seems to laugh at almost anything at any time. She had a permanent smile throughout the conversation. This may sound really good, but it was quite hard to gauge her reactions to what I say if she's like this. The conversation isn't word for word, but it's as close as I can remember.

Me: Hey, do you go to #### university?
Her: Yes, why?
Me: I've always wanted to go there. I suppose you're really smart.
Her: [laughs] Yes, I've got sooo much work to do!
Me: Yes, it looks like it. Can I see?
Her: Sure [hands me book/compliance?]
Her: [Starts talking lots of stuff about her university, her course and her friends]
Me: Too much work. Poor you.
Her: Oh we have reading week this week, so it's not so bad. What about you? Don't you have reading week?
Me: No, we're not slackers like your university (said with a smile).
Her: Oh, okay. Haha
Me: Which country are you from? You sound like you have a bit of an accent. (She sounded a mix of Japanese and American).
Her: I spent my high school years in America, but I lived my life in Japan before that. I lived in Italy and Holland too.
Me: Wow, can you speak any of those languages?
Her: No. Just Japanese and English. [laughs, again]
Me: That's poor. I expected better from a ##### university student.
Her: [laughs] Which languages do you speak?
Me: Just English. I can speak a bit of Persian and Chinese too.
Her: Really?! That's so interesting. There are lots of Chinese people in my university, so I wish I knew how to speak it.
Me: Japanese and English is enough. Teach me some Japanese.
Her: Okay.
[we exchanged and taught each other a few words from our languages. We spoke for a few minutes longer about similar subjects, i can't remember the exact words used, but it's nothing new compared to what I wrote above. We introduced ourselves in each other's language. Her name was Mino].
Me: [sensing the conversation was slowly dying], we'll I got to get back to university, my lecture starts soon. [I took out my mobile]
Her: Okay. Sorry to keep you here.
Me: Yeah, you're a bad influence!
Her: [laughs]
Me: It's been nice meeting you.
Her: It's been nice meeting you too.
Me: Hey, [with my mobile being out for quite some time], could you give me your number?
Her: Shouldn't you go back to university now? It's getting late. [my heart broke into a million pieces once she said that. Surely a girl who was interested wouldn't try to dodge that request? Though i admit i should of said 'give me your number'. But I thought all that time she was enjoying talking to me and we had a connection. Maybe she was just being polite.]
Me: uh..yeah.. [ ]
Her: Oh, yeah, lets swap our numbers
Me: If you want to, that is (I instantly regret saying that)
Her: Oh, it's fine
[we swap numbers]
Me: Nice to know you Mino
Her: Nice to meet you too! Enjoy your lecture!
Me: Yes, I will.

So at the end of that conversation, which lasted about 10-12 minutes, I got her number. I was absolutely joyous, after thinking I've FINALLY got somewhere with a girl. I was thinking that I was starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and everything would start making sense now.
After all, the objective was only to say 'Hi'. Why would I feel bad?
But after a while, her number started to feel like a last-place prize, where I have no reason to feel proud about it. Looking back on the conversation, it was crystal clear that she didn't want to give me her number (Me: Hey, [with my mobile being out for quite some time], could you give me your number? Her: Shouldn't you go back to university now? It's getting late. ).
I know that I was far too 'friendly' with my conversation, but I just don't know what to do. I've lost all my courage by girls shunning me for being over-confident, aggressive and a bit reckless. And now, I'm losing girls because I'm being too nice/careful. But it's damn hard to find that happy middle ground.

Anyway, I thought I'd give it one more go to see whether or not she likes me. So I texted her this:
'Nice to meet you today- let's see each other again soon. Sayonara '

She replied:
'Thank you, too! I go to that Starbucks pretty often, so I think we'll see each other sometime Hope you made it to the lecture!'

I didn't reply. I don't think she'll ever return to that Starbucks again, and was just saying that so I don't ask her on a date or something. That one didn't work out. Never mind.

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What do you think?

 

[ocantu1987]

You did good bro, don't be a negative.

 

[Marty]

Okay Ryan, here's what I think you should do:

Next time you are in a similar situation, force yourself to "go direct" within the first 30 seconds of talking to her... preferably sooner. Then you can continue more or less as before.

That way (unless she's totally socially imperceptive, which is not usually the case for most women) you will never again have to worry about her maybe not knowing what you really want.

-Marty

 

[Ryan]

Thanks ocantu1987 and Marty,

Actually, I wrote in my journal that I will force myself to begin direct approaching. But I have a severe lack of confidence from weeks/months of rejections, and i'm in need of a winner effect in something. So indirect approaching is okay, but direct approaching feels so daunting and horrible.

Nevertheless, i'll give it my best shot tomorrow and try to direct approaching and try to make me and everyone who has supported me proud for that i am actually progressing!

Despite that, back to my question, do you think I could get anywhere with this girl?

ryan

 

[Marty]

Ryan:

You will get a "winner effect" just from trying it. Seriously. I still remember the first time I went direct and the elation it caused me that "I knew I could do it".

I have never looked back since. In cold approach, I never use anything else now, unless the situation calls for a very brief pacing remark to get her comfortable. Even in peripheral social circle I now go direct as soon as I can safely do so without causing the girl embarrassment.

As for this girl I have no idea. One great advantage of the above: you will waste less time worrying about unproductive interactions as you will know where you stand most of the time, and can devote your energy to women with more potential )

One thing I'm not clear on... Did you actually ever ASK for a date? Don't seem to see it in your report.

 

[Ryan]

No. I just got her number this afternoon (Asking on the first day seems a bit premature, surely? ) That girl was the first number I got in months. But she doesn't see me in that way.

I'm not totally sure how or when to ask for a date. Does one say, 'let's go on a date?'?
Heck, i don't even know what a date even is, considering the extremes of Chase's 'Casual date nearby home for easy sex', and Hollywood's ideal of a date as a candlelit dinner with a violin serenade.
(I don't think i'm able to do either, considering i'm a poor student who lives with his parents because of crazy rental prices. I'll make an awful boyfriend).

 

[Marty]

Ryan, my dear fellow:

Not to mince words here—you're all over the shop. But not to worry, that's what this forum is for.

In no circumstances should you request contact details without first proposing a date. It's only written in about a hundred places on this site, so that's okay, perhaps you just missed it

The only situation I can imagine (better men will correct me if I am wrong) is if you meet someone and make progress straight away, and you've made your intentions transparently obvious and can tell she's already totally into you, and you're not going to arrange a date anyway (say, because one of you is leaving town) and you're planning to escalate on the spot, but just want to have her phone number so you can stay in touch afterward.

Otherwise, I believe, it's a hard-and-fast rule. The difficulty you now face is that you have her number, and she thinks you might call, but won't know what you want.

We learn the hard way. ) I'll leave it to the more experienced chaps to advise you as to whether you can salvage this.

-Marty

 

[Ryan]

wow, I feel a bit stupid now. >_<

The trouble is that I've always read the articles in the order of when I will apply it. I was trying to read up on all the fundamentals articles, then pre-opening, then opening, etc. So i know quite a bit about fundamentals and pre-opening, but almost nothing about closing, dating or sex (which as you can see, the closer I progress to these areas, the more likely I am to completely mess up).

Thanks for all the help Marty Reflecting on your comments, i think the ship set sail long ago. If a miracle worker can help me out, then i'm all ears, but otherwise i need i'm fine with these more disappointing experiences if it'll help me gain abundance mentality

 

[Smurf]

You're right about the 'give me your number' thing. It works much better as a command. Try even just handing her your phone with the dial pad open. This is good though and I can see you making progress!

Jake.

 

[Marty]

Hey Ryan:

London strikes me as a good place for daygame btw... plenty of foot traffic. Must try it next time I'm there. Though what I love now I'm in the States is that there are so many good-looking girls here—I have a thing for cute American girls.

Anyway, I'm not saying this is necessarily right, but reflecting on the path I've taken, I thought you might like to know that I gradually dialed up the level of directness in my opening, thus:

• Indirect, e.g. "Can you tell me where I might find the Strand? Oh, this is it? I'm kidding, actually I just wanted to say hi. I'm Ryan." I started this way the first few times, but find it gimmicky and counterproductive now.
  
• A better way to do the same is indirect-direct, which is similar but you follow up with: "Actually I find you cute and just wanted to say hi". Also better to use a less distracting opener that doesn't draw the attention away toward something irrelevant to the interaction.
  
• Situational, e.g. "Isn't that a beautiful sunset?" ...and then move to direct as swiftly as possible.
  
• Direct, complimenting something relatively neutral: "Hello, how's your day going? Well, I saw you walking here, and just wanted to say to you..." (pause...) "that the dress you're wearing suits you awfully well. What's your name?"
  
• Direct, complimenting something a little more intimate. As above, then "...you have the most sensual, dreamy eyes" or "...you have such delightful, rich, long hair".
  
• Direct, light sexual connotations: "Could you stop for a second? I just saw you walk by and simply had to tell you..." (pause...) "that you have the most gorgeous figure. I'm Ryan."
  
• Direct, going straight to the point: "Have you got a moment? Okay, well I just saw you from across the street and wanted to tell you..." (pause...) "that I think you're really cute. I wanted to have a chance to say hello before you ran away! What's your name?" This one was surprisingly tough for me to proceed to from the previous. First time I did it, I made a real mess of it. I needed to build up confidence gradually. But a lot of people here say it's the best, and all-in-all I think they're right.
  
• Direct, heavy sexual connotations: "May I speak with for a second?" (Get up really close and conspiratorial, but with slightly averted body language.) "I just felt I should mention to you that you have the sexiest pair of legs I've seen all day." Once you've reached this point, this one's easier than it looks.

I've used all of these on several occasions and am starting to get a feel for which is appropriate in what circumstance. Also it's useful to have a default "pacing remark" (the first phrase of each example above), to force yourself to get her attention and start off spontaneously.

Good luck!
-Marty

 

[Ryan]

Hey Ryan:

London strikes me as a good place for daygame btw... plenty of foot traffic. Must try it next time I'm there. Though what I love now I'm in the States is that there are so many good-looking girls here—I have a thing for cute American girls.

Anyway, I'm not saying this is necessarily right, but reflecting on the path I've taken, I thought you might like to know that I gradually dialed up the level of directness in my opening, thus:

• Indirect, e.g. "Can you tell me where I might find the Strand? Oh, this is it? I'm kidding, actually I just wanted to say hi. I'm Ryan." I started this way the first few times, but find it gimmicky and counterproductive now.
  
• A better way to do the same is indirect-direct, which is similar but you follow up with: "Actually I find you cute and just wanted to say hi". Also better to use a less distracting opener that doesn't draw the attention away toward something irrelevant to the interaction.
  
• Situational, e.g. "Isn't that a beautiful sunset?" ...and then move to direct as swiftly as possible.
  
• Direct, complimenting something relatively neutral: "Hello, how's your day going? Well, I saw you walking here, and just wanted to say to you..." (pause...) "that the dress you're wearing suits you awfully well. What's your name?"
  
• Direct, complimenting something a little more intimate. As above, then "...you have the most sensual, dreamy eyes" or "...you have such delightful, rich, long hair".
  
• Direct, light sexual connotations: "Could you stop for a second? I just saw you walk by and simply had to tell you..." (pause...) "that you have the most gorgeous figure. I'm Ryan."
  
• Direct, going straight to the point: "Have you got a moment? Okay, well I just saw you from across the street and wanted to tell you..." (pause...) "that I think you're really cute. I wanted to have a chance to say hello before you ran away! What's your name?" This one was surprisingly tough for me to proceed to from the previous. First time I did it, I made a real mess of it. I needed to build up confidence gradually. But a lot of people here say it's the best, and all-in-all I think they're right.
  
• Direct, heavy sexual connotations: "May I speak with for a second?" (Get up really close and conspiratorial, but with slightly averted body language.) "I just felt I should mention to you that you have the sexiest pair of legs I've seen all day." Once you've reached this point, this one's easier than it looks.

I've used all of these on several occasions and am starting to get a feel for which is appropriate in what circumstance. Also it's useful to have a default "pacing remark" (the first phrase of each example above), to force yourself to get her attention and start off spontaneously.

Good luck!
-Marty

This is golden. I've added this straight to my bookmarks and journal (I credited you, don't worry!). Thanks a lot.

I've been to America before and I know you're right. So many beauties, unlike here. If you ever get the chance to come to London, let's meet up and have a chat over some tea and approach a few girls. Hopefully by then i'll be near your standard