FR Another date not coming home

[ChrisXKiss]

I had a date tonight and as the title says, she rejected my invitation to my place in the end. I wouldn't really post it by itself, but I feel there is a pattern, because I have had a bunch ( at least ten ) of first dates/instadates the last month were the girl just didn't want to move towards a seduction location. And the situations have been varied, kissing in public but not wanting anything more, rejecting the kiss in public, no attempt by me to kiss and still declined invitation without her being busy, just chill conversation where she said she was busy later without me even having the chance to invite her. I've even had a girl I took home and I never escalated on purpose, took her to the station giving a goodbye kiss there and she doesn't respond now, and another that came to my place and rejected my kiss there. All these situations where I met the girl outside or online and either I moved her to a date location that day or another day.

Now I understand that all these situations can have their differences, but the point I want to make is that I feel I have been trying all kinds of things, going for a kiss before inviting, inviting home before kissing, inviting fast, inviting slow, inviting for food, for drinks, to show a carpet, using sex talk during the date, not using sex talk during the date. The result though remains the same, most of the dates just don't come back to a seduction location with me and don't let me escalate. So there has to be something about the vibe I am giving off.

For this one, I met the girl just before getting into the night bus to take me home last Friday pretty late at night. I saw her coming towards the bus and opened directly telling her I absolutely loved her vibe and the way she was dressed. She took it pleasurably and we kinda sat together in the bus. I say kinda because she was eating and wanted to sit behind me in the beginning to eat by herself and then came around in front of me. Didn't really get that since we were talking also while she was eating but anyway. We had a small talk, I could feel some vibe between us, at some point she even fed me herself some of her burger to eat, she also asked my age, I am quite younger than her, but she seemed fine with it, telling me I am very mature for my age. I asked her to come by my place for an afterdrink that night in fact, but she said no and that she had to go sleep and wake up early, but we exchanged numbers and she felt very positive to meet again.

I sent an icebreaker text, she responded, but then didn't respond to my next text asking her how her weekend was. I then sent a voicemessage asking her out, she agreed and we planned for today. At some point she said she would have to do half an hour later today due to work and I said I understand and we can do it.

We met at the post office next to the meeting location, I was few minutes late and she wanted to take the time to send something, we were texting back and forth quite a bit during these minutes of my arrival, and I just said I'm gonna come find you at the post. Then I proposed we go grab a drink and go chill by the river because the weather is good, she agreed, we bought a small wine ( she bought it basically, telling me I am not working, so she'll pay for it ). Then she was like: I am a bad girl, let's go steal some cups from starbucks to drink. I said I loved her spirit, and then she thought that she could just go back to her office next to there and grab some cups, so she did that. As we were walking towards the river we talked about our weeks a bit, she asked me about my age again, and said again that I look mature but let's see today.

We arrived at the river sat and shared the drink. There in the beginning I asked her about her job, what she likes about it, she described she loves solving problems, feeling like a detective finding answers to questions, and she asked me back what I loved about my field and I said solving problems as well, and understanding the universe. She asked me to explain to her certain things about how the universe works, and I did give her some stuff I know, and she also explained a bit some problems she had to solve in her job.

I asked her about her passions and what else she is doing, she said meeting friends and partying, and that she doesn't really have any hobbies, I also asked what her friends like about her, she said that she is there for them always happy when they are doing well and not jealous. She asked me back and I said my friends would say I am chill and supportive.

I asked her how she is doing with men, she said well I am not a virgin, laughing, she asked me back and I said I am not a virgin either. She asked what I saw in her when we met, I told her that I felt something, I saw her and she looked lovely, sometimes you have this pull you can feel from someone. I asked her back about me and she said that she felt the way I talked to her was very unique, she doesn't really get that so she appreciated it.

During all the time she would frequently talk about how she is a bad girl, but no bad in treating people badly, more that she wants to think that she is bad because she drinks and also smokes, while I don't, she even showed me pictures of her with blond hair in the past asking to compare with her red hair now, and I told her I generally like blonde women so I do like her in the pics, but she looks more cute there and now more sexy. Even proposed her to paint the hair blue next to match with her blue eyes. And she said that yeah she should go to the love parade like an alien and ask them to show her how earth works.

She also mentioned that she enjoys gay pride and fetish parades, so I asked her if she is into kink, she didn't understand so I told her fetish, she said like whipping?, and asked if I have a fetish. I told her I don't have something specific, I generally want to enjoy a woman and her body, kiss and stroke ( here she thought I said choke, and I was like no I said stroke, but choking at the right context can be fun too ) all over it, make her feel and build her arousal and give her the eventual release, I find this whole experience and connection beautiful, and I enjoy being dominant, but not just for me, mostly for the woman, I enjoy feeling the desire and wanting to consume her, because if I only want sexual release I can masturbate and do it myself, while with sex we come together, become one and this feeling of contributing to other's person's pleasure and sharing it is incredible. And of course first you explore yourselves and connect together and then with time you can see what you both like more and communicate it. Here she once more said I am very mature, and although I am in my 20s I speak like I am 40 already, for which I thanked her.

I also asked back what her feeling about sex and all this is and she went into telling me about her younger friends. She said that she has a lot of younger friends, because girls at her age are in more serious relationships, and all her friends tell her that young guys are too aggressive in bed, like slapping them and spitting on them out of the blue, and she thinks it is because of them growing up with porn and thinking that this is the right way to have sex. I told her here jokingly that: Yeah, wasn't planning to slap you, and that this stuff is a bit too much, and maybe you can get into them later with communication if both partners want it, and indeed porn gives all the wrong impressions and is fake.

I asked her what she likes in sex, and she said she prefers something more old school, I asked what she means, and she said something a bit more slow and romantic and getting to know each other and connecting, but after all these things she has heard from her friends she has been a bit hesitant for younger guys in their 20s.

There was a small pause somewhere around there, one of those that I felt I should make a move to take her somewhere else, and didn't exactly make it immediately as I wasn't sure if it would be too blunt to invite her home exactly at the end of the sex talk, but almost next thing she asked where I live and if I have roommates or live alone. I told her I am alone and asked her back. She said she is alone as well, and then I told her that as I remember we live in the same area, so we can go grab a pizza and eat it at my place. She asked if I like pizza or what else, we agreed on basically the same taste of pizza, we talked a bit more and then I told her if she is done let's go.

We went to the train, we took it and went to the station close to my place. Throughout the whole time together by the way, I was giving her some touches at her legs and at her back, some of them more lingering as well, and when the train arrived and stopped she almost fell down and I caught her. Then outside she almost crushed on another girl, and start saying how these are bad signs, she is too tired and she should go home before anything worse happens. I didn't really respond to that and as we kept walking she said that the other girl should have also been more careful, and I took her side saying: Totally, she should have seen were she was going to not bump on you.

We then took a tram for one station because she had all her bags from her job with her and didn't want to walk more. We entered the pizzeria exactly opposite to my place, she saw the tables and said we could also sit and eat it here, I responded: "Nah let's just head to my place, it is over there, it will be relaxed", and when I arrived at the counter I took the lead and ordered the pizza for takeaway.

When the pizza came and we headed out as I we were walking past the station outside of my place she said it's fine that the pizza is small, because she will take the next tram for her place and I can have all of it. I told her that I bought it for us let's go only for half an hour for a piece and she can go, she said another time and that it was my favourite taste anyway, I said that yeah but we agreed we both love this taste and I took it because of that and I feel bad not even having a piece with her. She said it's too early and she doesn't want to go to my home at the first meeting, and I said I don't consider it bad to do that, if we are enjoying the time with each other why not stay a bit more, and I enjoyed the time so I would like to spend some more with her. She said that she enjoyed it too but maybe another time, and I said that ok my place is there I enjoy your company but if you don't feel like it now, it's fine. She said that if she were to start eating now the pizza was too small anyway and she would eat all of it. So I told her ok another time, we take a big pizza and we throw a huge party.

I also stayed for few minutes there for her tram to come, she told me I should go as the pizza is getting cold, I told her she waited for me to take the pizza, so I am gonna wait a bit for her tram, to which she responded that I should go and be an attorney. The tram came we gave a hug and parted ways.

Later I sent her a message: Hey, it was a sweet evening, thanks for the company , and she responded: Hello. Yes it was lovely. Wish you a good Night.

All in all, maybe she wasn't ready for the first date coming to my place, but my question is if it is possible that I just meet woman after woman that is not ready to go to my home after the first date. And I just don't buy it, I mean maybe some of them, but in general I feel I should be able to do things better and pull home a bigger percentage of my first dates. Because I feel that most women would go straight away with the right guy, but I am not coming off as that right guy.

And I am not sure exactly where I am lacking. If they are on dates with me they are probably attracted. Some may be just coming out as friends thinking nothing more will happen, and I guess I can deal with that by getting more sexy and leaving no idea in their minds about how it could go, but I do believe that most women that come out one on one to meet me should logically be at least intrigued on a man to woman level.

Then I am not sure if I am coming off as too much of a fuckboy that they feel I won't care about anything else apart from sex, or if I give off more boyfriend vibes naturally and I am just not sexy enough for something quick and casual. I feel it is some combination of both, that some of the girls see I am mostly into sex but they don't feel me as sexy enough to go with me for that first and foremost, while others do feel I am sexy enough but believe that's the only thing in my mind and I won't care for them as people if we go for it fast.

And I am trying to work on these and build more of a lover frame, being sexy and caring for the women I am with, but I am not sure at this point where exactly it is lacking in the way I communicate it. I truly believe the things I wrote about sex in this report as well, maybe I should be even more open and clear about how I view sex and the beauty and completeness I find in the experience, but I am not sure if it would be enough for the girl to say ok let's go and do it, he is real, he loves it and will take care of me.

Or maybe I should in fact focus on something completely different. All comments are always welcome.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

had a date tonight and as the title says, she rejected my invitation to my place in the end. I wouldn't really post it by itself, but I feel there is a pattern, because I have had a bunch ( at least ten ) of first dates/instadates the last month were the girl just didn't want to move towards a seduction location. And the situations have been varied, kissing in public but not wanting anything more, rejecting the kiss in public, no attempt by me to kiss and still declined invitation without her being busy, just chill conversation where she said she was busy later without me even having the chance to invite her. I've even had a girl I took home and I never escalated on purpose, took her to the station giving a goodbye kiss there and she doesn't respond now, and another that came to my place and rejected my kiss there. All these situations where I met the girl outside or online and either I moved her to a date location that day or another day.

First off,it's better to get a handle on always taking the path of least resistance

Secrets to Getting Girls: The Path of Least Resistance

There’s a dreadful mistake that many men new to seduction make, and that is the mistake of trying to make women monkeywrench themselves into the man’s conversation, or apartment, or bed. For obvious reasons, the more difficult it is for a woman to get together with a man, the less likely it is...

www.girlschase.com

Couple of things I've noted that up your chances of pulling her back to yours:

>Inviting her over in the middle of the date or during a high point- this helps avoid her emotions troughing and her getting bored that she leaves or says she has to leave .

Women tend to give false time constraints when you bore them out or are boring right out off the bat.Think of them as being polite.

Anyways, you still can pull some girls at the end of the date too provided you know she's got enough time and she's really interested and highly compliant.

Nonetheless,why not pull her early and give her a whirlwind romance

On high points: she's more likely to agree to your requests during a high note than during low notes.Use that advantage when you can


>Meeting somewhere close to the seduction location - this makes it easier for her to agree to your pull request since it's close.

I've lost many girls in the past by meeting them far away from my place .All that changed when I shifted more towards meeting them close to mine.

I stuck with meeting them anywhere less than 7 mins away from my place and kissed go-nowhere(awesome put couldn't pull) dates goodbye.

I sometimes break the rule and meet her farther out but I won't turn on the charm as much until we get to mine .And will grab a cab to get to the good stuff faster.

So yeah if you can't meet her somewhere close ,it's better if you grab a cab or what-have-you.But that's just me that got got addicted to fast pulls and seductions.

>Plausible deniability - just make it easier for her to say "it just happened". I can see you are already doing this.

There may be others eg being interesting and all but I feel these are the major ones ,at least for me

On with your post,

Best if you delay the kiss, and stay mysterious , till you get to the seduction location

Decline invitation without being busy-maybe she wasn't interested or you weren't "that guy" to her.It happens

Know how much time she has earlier on and work things from there

Don't expect to pull girls back to yours,fail to make a move (whether on purpose or not) and expect them to respond.Attraction has an expiry date

Can't tell where you fucked up,but I would say you don't have to kiss a girl to make a move on her.You can always escalate somewhere else.If she leaves and you escalated on her the right way, chances are she wasn't interested.Move on

Now I understand that all these situations can have their differences, but the point I want to make is that I feel I have been trying all kinds of things, going for a kiss before inviting, inviting home before kissing, inviting fast, inviting slow, inviting for food, for drinks, to show a carpet, using sex talk during the date, not using sex talk during the date. The result though remains the same, most of the dates just don't come back to a seduction location with me and don't let me escalate. So there has to be something about the vibe I am giving off.

Try the things I've mentioned above for pulling and see how that pans out

Are you making them feel allowed to have sex with you as much as you are making them feel desire?

How are you escalating? Do you get her comfortable? Do you make her feel that you're still in control even despite her resistance?Do you seduce her or just go all caveman on her with no sign of pulling back before going back at it again?

What's your vibe like before pulling her back to yours?Is there tension(sexual) in the air? Does she feel that you are the kind of guy that can deliver the goods?

--------------------------

Didn't note anything that bad in the Convo but it still could use some work.To me,it seems you are sticking to the surface.Go deeper.Get to know her.

What are her motivations? What are her ambitions? What are her likes and dislikes and why? Really, who is she really deep down?

The more you get to know such kind of things about her,the more she feels connected to you.And people like and adore those they really connect with.

There was a small pause somewhere around there, one of those that I felt I should make a move to take her somewhere else, and didn't exactly make it immediately as I wasn't sure if it would be too blunt to invite her home exactly at the end of the sex talk, but almost next thing she asked where I live and if I have roommates

You can always switch back to social and go for the pull in the future but don't wait too long

When the pizza came and we headed out as I we were walking past the station outside of my place she said it's fine that the pizza is small, because she will take the next tram for her place and I can have all of it. I told her that I bought it for us let's go only for half an hour for a piece and she can go, she said another time and that it was my favourite taste anyway, I said that yeah but we agreed we both love this taste and I took it because of that and I feel bad not even having a piece with her. She said it's too early and she doesn't want to go to my home at the first meeting, and I said I don't consider it bad to do that, if we are enjoying the time with each other why not stay a bit more, and I enjoyed the time so I would like to spend some more with her. She said that she enjoyed it too but maybe another time, and I said that ok my place is there I enjoy your company but if you don't feel like it now, it's fine. She said that if she were to start eating now the pizza was too small anyway and she would eat all of it. So I told her ok another time, we take a big pizza and we throw a huge party.

I also stayed for few minutes there for her tram to come, she told me I should go as the pizza is getting cold, I told her she waited for me to take the pizza, so I am gonna wait a bit for her tram, to which she responded that I should go and be an attorney. The

The pizza is small".She is second guessing herself here .You moved backwards when you agreed ,took a big pizza and threw a big party.Read on "No going backwards " over at the blog.


If you are doing things right,it's easy,way easier , to pull girls back home on the first date.She raised an objection of not going back to guys' places on the first date.Again,if you know what you are doing ,that only applies to guys she wants to slow game or guys she doesn't find that interesting to do it on the first date with.No knock on you

It's easy to agree with what girls say when they bring up objections.But you have to get this,it isn't like they go to objections school and have these objections crammed up in their heads that they can always choose from and throw a guy's way.

It's that they are unsure of most guys and do it to postpone making a decision or at worst,push guys they aren't interested with away.Or, maybe even test you to see if you really can deliver .

Nothing to get mad of but it always pays to persist.Your best chance of getting together with a girl is on the first date when attraction is at its peak .Heck ,you can come up with such a rule for yourself to better save your time in dates and pickups.

That being said,I would've gone with the hard push in your case ie get her to decide . Pushing things for later doesn't work most of the time since stuff may intervene,her emotions for you fade out or maybe she meets a guy that moves fast and does things right.

It gets even harder and harder to get her out again if you didn't really hit it off with her the first time.

So yeah,will link an article to this and couple others.

Also , sticking around after she declined is chasing her . Telling you to go be an attorney is her just being nice with you.You justifying your reason for staying is you being a nice guy.

I don't want to be harsh but think about it ,a girl that really wants you will want more of your time...more of you.I understand you may have wanted to reciprocate but reciprocation isn't a good play with girls that are resistant or non-compliant.

You can be the asshole that girls still swoon for.That's for you to decide tho

 

[Chad Tyrone]

What to Do When a Girl Won't Go Home with You

A reader named Konstantin writes in: “Hi Chase and the team! I have read most of your articles, and especially those on moving fast and inviting her home. I have a question: it happened to me quite a few times now that I invite a girl home with me, and she gets ever so close to coming, but...

www.girlschase.com

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No Going Backwards

One of our members on the discussion boards recently wrote about a girl he'd been out on a date with, who was very attracted to him, and with whom he'd made it all the way back to his place. They reached his home, only for her to refuse coming upstairs with him. He persisted; she refused. He...

www.girlschase.com

All in all, maybe she wasn't ready for the first date coming to my place, but my question is if it is possible that I just meet woman after woman that is not ready to go to my home after the first date. And I just don't buy it, I mean maybe some of them, but in general I feel I should be able to do things better and pull home a bigger percentage of my first dates. Because I feel that most women would go straight away with the right guy, but I am not coming off as that right guy.

And I am not sure exactly where I am lacking. If they are on dates with me they are probably attracted. Some may be just coming out as friends thinking nothing more will happen, and I guess I can deal with that by getting more sexy and leaving no idea in their minds about how it could go, but I do believe that most women that come out one on one to meet me should logically be at least intrigued on a man to woman level.

Then I am not sure if I am coming off as too much of a fuckboy that they feel I won't care about anything else apart from sex, or if I give off more boyfriend vibes naturally and I am just not sexy enough for something quick and casual. I feel it is some combination of both, that some of the girls see I am mostly into sex but they don't feel me as sexy enough to go with me for that first and foremost, while others do feel I am sexy enough but believe that's the only thing in my mind and I won't care for them as people if we go for it fast.

And I am trying to work on these and build more of a lover frame, being sexy and caring for the women I am with, but I am not sure at this point where exactly it is lacking in the way I communicate it. I truly believe the things I wrote about sex in this report as well, maybe I should be even more open and clear about how I view sex and the beauty and completeness I find in the experience, but I am not sure if it would be enough for the girl to say ok let's go and do it, he is real, he loves it and will take care of me.

How to Get First-Date Sex with Girls on Every Date

In the comments section of "Dating Without Sex: Why It Usually Doesn’t Work," Maxz had a comment about how to get first date sex: “Totally right on Chase. All the girls I have lost are girls I moved slow with, and did not give them what they wanted meaning sex. After I discovered this site, I...

www.girlschase.com

I'd focus on all three elements

Hope this helped

Chad Tyrone

 

[ChrisXKiss]

>Inviting her over in the middle of the date or during a high point- this helps avoid her emotions troughing and her getting bored that she leaves or says she has to leave .

I can see that, I guess sometimes I am the type of guy that thinks: "Oh I haven't finished my drink yet, I'm not inviting her now, let's invite her when I am ready to leave the place". But I do agree with your point, in a lot of these dates though I don't feel a moment around the middle that I can say I have a window to escalate and invite home, maybe I don't see them, but I rarely feel it being there in a way that the invitation will be natural. Unless just having a good time is enough to go for it. I don't feel that they are getting bored though by the end, or that there was a high before that came crashing down.

>Meeting somewhere close to the seduction location - this makes it easier for her to agree to your pull request since it's close.

Also agree, I do it whenever I can, some girls just say they want to go somewhere else and I am not pressuring them too much through texting, because I don't think it will be very effective. The funny thing though is that I have pulled girls that met closer to my place, and girls I met further away, and it doesn't seem to be a kind of big correlation. Even when I manage to get them close to my place I have not seen some big difference in results. Sometimes I even feel that by meeting them closer to mine and inviting them home feels like it was all preplanned to end up there, and if they are into me yes they will come, but these kind of girls would generally come even if we met further away.

So yeah if you can't meet her somewhere close ,it's better if you grab a cab or what-have-you.But that's just me that got got addicted to fast pulls and seductions.

Yeah I guess I have a financial issue here not wanting to pay so much for cabs all the time when my place is next to the train station, but I see your point especially for night pulls I have used it and it helps. During the day the way the city is most people use the public transport, since it goes everywhere fast, so not sure how much this could change the pull rate on dates. Because the problem is not that we are far, but that they don't want to come to my place anyway. And yeah I do enjoy fast seductions as well, at least ideally, can't say I am very successful at them yet.

Best if you delay the kiss, and stay mysterious , till you get to the seduction location

Yeah generally that's what I am going for, I've just tried other things sometimes to see how it would work. The only times that I've felt kissing before helped was when the girl was already into the mode of wanting sex and just wanted to check our chemistry before committing more, or when the girl was simply around for the night and we both knew where all this could go anyway, so giving the kiss in public was part of the fast romantic experience.

Decline invitation without being busy-maybe she wasn't interested or you weren't "that guy" to her.It happens

True, I did feel that certain times.

Don't expect to pull girls back to yours,fail to make a move (whether on purpose or not) and expect them to respond.Attraction has an expiry date

Yeah I have known this, I've always been making moves in my place, but I just wanted to try once to just not do anything and see how it could affect things. And I really liked this girl, I felt we had good tension and chemistry but thought it could be even more teasing and mysterious to simply bring her home, just talk to her and do nothing else. To the point that she would get even more intrigued by me. Didn't work and almost smashed my head to the wall for my stupidity of trying this, so never again.

Can't tell where you fucked up,but I would say you don't have to kiss a girl to make a move on her.You can always escalate somewhere else.If she leaves and you escalated on her the right way, chances are she wasn't interested.Move on

Yeah, sometimes I guess you have to accept that maybe she wasn't into it and you didn't do something really wrong. I can take that and move on, just want to make sure that on my part I am doing the best I can.

How are you escalating? Do you get her comfortable? Do you make her feel that you're still in control even despite her resistance?Do you seduce her or just go all caveman on her with no sign of pulling back before going back at it again?

When I say they don't let me escalate I don't mean LMR of some sort, I have had that of course as well, but lately it feels like we don't even get to that point. I feel they don't even let themselves get to a point where I could escalate with them, they see it coming and are like no it's too fast, I don't do it in the first date, maybe next time, so they don't even come to my place or even rebuff my kiss attempts when I tried that.

I don't think I lose my cool in general, and I try not to force things too much, that's why if they are clear they are not coming I may talk about it a bit but won't push hard. I may mention it again after a while, but I have rarely seen a change of mind.

What's your vibe like before pulling her back to yours?Is there tension(sexual) in the air? Does she feel that you are the kind of guy that can deliver the goods?

This is probably the issue, I feel that although I am talking more about sex lately conveying how I see it and how open with it I am, there is not much sexual tension. Maybe the most was with the girl I took home and did nothing for no reason. But with the others I do feel that the conversation can be nice but there is not much tension in the air, and since we vibe I go for the pull anyway. It's probably something about my state lately, have to check on it, maybe my testosterone could use some help, because generally I don't feel a crazy desire for sex, unless I am with a girl where we get pretty close or she is clearly giving me the eyes or a sexual vibe.

In a lot of these dates it feels like a good chat and I am not sure how to transition from that to the sexual tension. It's not that I don't know what to do technically, I have read the articles, it's just feels off if there is no clear sexual vibe by the girl as well, like trying to ramp up the sexual tension from my side will be incongruent with the whole situation.

From the past I was generally never the touchy guy or at least the times I have tried to use a lot more touch during my seductions before going to a seduction location have felt quite off. So I took the route of minimal touching, and just creating tension with my vibe, and it has worked, but I feel lately that this vibe is lacking. Especially when I am sitting somewhere with a girl, the position doesn't matter, but it is difficult for me to get to a sexual mood, have an erection and subcommunicate I want to ravish her. When standing or walking together I can feel that better in fact.

So I feel my main issue is how to manage to put myself in a sexual state, before I even communicate it to her. Even when I try to be looking at her thinking how I would be taking her naked while she would be shouting, I still don't feel much arousal, it's like I am trying to force my body to get to a sexual state and it doesn't work when the chat is all good and fun, as I have trouble generating that state on command.

Didn't note anything that bad in the Convo but it still could use some work.To me,it seems you are sticking to the surface.Go deeper.Get to know her.

What are her motivations? What are her ambitions? What are her likes and dislikes and why? Really, who is she really deep down?

The more you get to know such kind of things about her,the more she feels connected to you.And people like and adore those they really connect with.

Yeah I have been trying to get deeper into that, was trying to calibrate of not going too deep too fast, but now that I think about it my problem is probably that during these deep dives there is no tension. So I feel that if I keep connecting more we will basically end up as two great friends or as a potential couple. While If I managed to have the sexual tension throughout the deep dive it could be a deep connection, with the sexual element at the atmosphere, and it could lead to greater desire for intimacy.

You can always switch back to social and go for the pull in the future but don't wait too long

Yep that's something I've had in mind.

The pizza is small".She is second guessing herself here .You moved backwards when you agreed ,took a big pizza and threw a big party.Read on "No going backwards " over at the blog.


If you are doing things right,it's easy,way easier , to pull girls back home on the first date.She raised an objection of not going back to guys' places on the first date.Again,if you know what you are doing ,that only applies to guys she wants to slow game or guys she doesn't find that interesting to do it on the first date with.No knock on you

It's easy to agree with what girls say when they bring up objections.But you have to get this,it isn't like they go to objections school and have these objections crammed up in their heads that they can always choose from and throw a guy's way.

It's that they are unsure of most guys and do it to postpone making a decision or at worst,push guys they aren't interested with away.Or, maybe even test you to see if you really can deliver .

Nothing to get mad of but it always pays to persist.Your best chance of getting together with a girl is on the first date when attraction is at its peak .Heck ,you can come up with such a rule for yourself to better save your time in dates and pickups.

That being said,I would've gone with the hard push in your case ie get her to decide . Pushing things for later doesn't work most of the time since stuff may intervene,her emotions for you fade out or maybe she meets a guy that moves fast and does things right.

It gets even harder and harder to get her out again if you didn't really hit it off with her the first time.

So yeah,will link an article to this and couple others.

Also , sticking around after she declined is chasing her . Telling you to go be an attorney is her just being nice with you.You justifying your reason for staying is you being a nice guy.

I don't want to be harsh but think about it ,a girl that really wants you will want more of your time...more of you.I understand you may have wanted to reciprocate but reciprocation isn't a good play with girls that are resistant or non-compliant.

You can be the asshole that girls still swoon for.That's for you to decide tho

I have read it in fact and know the concept, I am just not sure what to do in these situations if she just says she won't come. I addressed her objection of it being the first time, of it being my favourite pizza and I should eat it myself, of the pizza being small as well as she said it once more before that point. But then I was like ok no matter what I address she seems very firm in her decision, I better respect it, what else can I do? I could give a hard push but I couldn't see how it would work with her state of mind, and felt that more persistence at that moment would just make me feel like I am trying to force her to come and that's the only thing I care about. I felt she probably has some attainability issues and wants to connect more first, so I decided ok let's respect her decision and show her I care about her as well, and don't only see her as a sex object.

And I agree with the best chance being the first date, I generally tend to not even get second dates, and I started thinking that if I let the date end before going to the seduction location or pushing too hard for sex it could give me a higher probability for a second date, compared to going for it and failing. And with some cases like this date, I just don't see how I could make her come to my place, no matter what objection I was addressing she was staying in her decision, so I decided it is better to respect that, and show her that for me this doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see her again.

Maybe I just feel I have attainability problems when it is really attraction problems I don't know. That's the reason I don't go too much asshole, because I feel it will be overwhelming if they clearly like me but just want to connect more before sex. My general vibe is that even if she rejected something I can still be chill and nice, since my whole life doesn't depend on it anyway, so all is good.

I think it would feel reactive to just leave the moment she gave the objection, not wanting to come home. I suppose it does look like chasing, what I wanted to show is that I am not affected by it, and it's not that much of a big deal for me, and give her the chance to connect at a later time as well.

In general I feel that most of the issues are throughout the date and before that point, as I could have pushed harder there, but I think it would have just burned the interaction down, and I don't feel that in any of the other dates that didn't come home pushing even harder in the end would have changed things. Maybe I am wrong, but they all seemed pretty firm.

I'd focus on all three elements

Hope this helped

Chad Tyrone

Thanks a lot for the comment and for the articles! Have read them and will go back to make a refresh!

 

[Will_V]

@ChrisXKiss I can almost guarantee you the issue here is congruence. You made her feel desired, which triggered her desire to have fun with a virile young man, but she never quite felt comfortable with her reading of you, and you missed a couple of notes in the seduction song.

The vibe on the bus was good, not to get too psychological but her feeding you her burger is a sign she wants to take care of you and satiate you, this is great for the dynamic of an older woman and a younger guy. Her complimenting you on your maturity for your age seems to be a positive thing where she is telling herself aloud 'it's ok that he's younger because he's very mature'.

I think already though something was making her feel unsure, since she didn't respond to your first message after the icebreaker. But you did great to get her out with a voicemessage, and she felt like she wanted to see you again.

On the date there are many signs that she was internally conflicted about whether she should 'allow' herself to have fun with you. She basically tried to work herself up into her own seduction by talking about being a bad girl and doing all sorts of 'forbidden' things. I think perhaps you didn't respond properly or qualify her enough here, which made her second guess later on whether you were that sort of guy she could be like that with.

The right frame here imo would have been to put a bit of pressure on her to 'prove' she was really a bad girl, as if you're not sure she's really at your level, then qualify/validate her on that, while also mentioning 'good girl' traits you like in her as well. That makes her feel like 'ok he really does like me for being a bad girl, but I'm not just some object of fantasy' and made her a lot more comfortable. For example:

Her "I'm a bad girl, I go to gay pride parades"
You: "Really? A lot of girls go to those things just to say they did something naughty"
Her: "No I'm really naughty! One time I <qualifies herself>"
You: "That's cool, I like a girl who <something about what she qualified herself on> while also caring and mature. Ah, the duality of the female nature!"
Her: "...!"

I get the sense that instead, she didn't get the response she was looking for, and subsequently felt like you weren't at the same level as her and that's when she did the whole thing of complimenting you on maturity again. I'm always suspicious of womens compliments, usually she will simply respond to things she likes with attraction and receptivity. A compliment is often something of a test to see if what she thinks about you is correct by gauging your response to it, or a way to convince herself when she's unsure. But in my experience it is rarely as straightforward as simply being a compliment. In any case it seems clear that at this point she was unsure about whether you were the guy for the job.

The point where she talked about younger guys being too rough I think was a critical turning point. You felt like you should make a move to take her home, but instead I think your intuition was telling you that you needed to make a response here. Saying something to the effect of 'yeah a lot of younger guys don't realize, a woman needs to feel taken care of as well as having all her fantasies fulfilled'. Something to show that you know what the difference is between taking advantage and giving her a wild experience.

She was clearly very conflicted on the way home with you and her whole frame about what was going to happen crumbled at some point, and this is because you hadn't set the frame up correctly. The way I think of this is like a plane pulling off the runway too soon. If it hasn't build up enough energy, it will leave the ground and look like it's going to fly, but it won't be up there for long before it comes back down hard. That's why it's important to not just take compliance at face value but try to understand where her head is at.

One suggestion I have for you with older/more experienced women is to not try to come off too cool or experienced but simply show that you are aware of things that most men aren't, while being very curious and engaged with the reality of women's sexuality. Your currency as a younger dude is virility, high energy, and enthusiasm that hasn't been dampened by wear and tear. As long as you show that you are self assured and open to the experience, she will be happy to take you along.

I think you're doing a great job with your first impressions and drawing women into the door of the seduction, but your congruence and frame control thereafter could be improved.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

On the date there are many signs that she was internally conflicted about whether she should 'allow' herself to have fun with you. She basically tried to work herself up into her own seduction by talking about being a bad girl and doing all sorts of 'forbidden' things. I think perhaps you didn't respond properly or qualify her enough here, which made her second guess later on whether you were that sort of guy she could be like that with.

The right frame here imo would have been to put a bit of pressure on her to 'prove' she was really a bad girl, as if you're not sure she's really at your level, then qualify/validate her on that, while also mentioning 'good girl' traits you like in her as well. That makes her feel like 'ok he really does like me for being a bad girl, but I'm not just some object of fantasy' and made her a lot more comfortable.

I did tell her I love it when she was saying she is a bad girl and I enjoy her crazy vibe a lot. I think I didn't go into asking her what bad things she is doing to not feel like I am going into sexual topics too soon. I believed that I should take it a bit more chill in the beginning of the interaction to not look super enthusiastic and sex crazed.

But yes you are right this pressure and release you talked about last time as well is something I should be doing more, I think I didn't realise it and probably believed the point was not to take the fact that she is saying she is bad really seriously. I did ask her later what bad things she is doing, and she was like nothing bad to others, I am just partying smoking drinking, and she also told me how I am not smoking and not even drinking that much and seem to be very proper. But I was still taking all that as something not serious, thinking that it's not a topic to expand as not smoking is a lifestyle choice and it's silly to think it really makes me fun, no fun or anything else, so my responses were like like: yeah never smoked, my lungs couldn't handle it.

I think I should just start pressuring more. I feel I have been a bit hesitant to do it, thinking that if I give some kind of pressure like that she will answer to the "Really? A lot of girls go to those things just to say they did something naughty", just like: " No I am naughty", with a vibe of not wanting to qualify at all. Maybe that's because I have tried pressuring questions like that when I first approach and talk to girls and then I get a lot of them not qualifying, so I subconsciously stay away from them even in dates to not affect the flow of the interaction, because I feel if the question flops and they don't qualify it's a loss of attraction of what I have built till then. But I guess I should have in mind that if they are in a date and spending time with me they will probably want to flirt, connect more and qualify.

I get the sense that instead, she didn't get the response she was looking for, and subsequently felt like you weren't at the same level as her and that's when she did the whole thing of complimenting you on maturity again. I'm always suspicious of womens compliments, usually she will simply respond to things she likes with attraction and receptivity. A compliment is often something of a test to see if what she thinks about you is correct by gauging your response to it, or a way to convince herself when she's unsure. But in my experience it is rarely as straightforward as simply being a compliment. In any case it seems clear that at this point she was unsure about whether you were the guy for the job.

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought about and will keep in mind from now on. I was always accepting compliments as something positive with a genuine thank you, and specifically here I thought her calling me mature was basically her saying: "I love how you express yourself about sex, you may be young but have the mature views of someone I would like to have sex with"

The point where she talked about younger guys being too rough I think was a critical turning point. You felt like you should make a move to take her home, but instead I think your intuition was telling you that you needed to make a response here. Saying something to the effect of 'yeah a lot of younger guys don't realize, a woman needs to feel taken care of as well as having all her fantasies fulfilled'. Something to show that you know what the difference is between taking advantage and giving her a wild experience.

The thing is I felt I had covered all that earlier with how I talked about sex. I really explained how what I want is to be there with a woman, share this amazing experience, and focus on her pleasure, and I love it when I can give all of myself to her, while also saying that yeah these guys don't get it thinking that porn is reality. So I really believed at that point that I had conveyed everything I could regarding my views on sex and there was no much more to add.

She was clearly very conflicted on the way home with you and her whole frame about what was going to happen crumbled at some point, and this is because you hadn't set the frame up correctly. The way I think of this is like a plane pulling off the runway too soon. If it hasn't build up enough energy, it will leave the ground and look like it's going to fly, but it won't be up there for long before it comes back down hard. That's why it's important to not just take compliance at face value but try to understand where her head is at.

Yeah that is what I found interesting, because I did feel I set the sexual frames properly. I guess I should have been even more sexually playful with her about the bad girl stuff and communicated better my understanding of the woman nature and experience sexually.

One suggestion I have for you with older/more experienced women is to not try to come off too cool or experienced but simply show that you are aware of things that most men aren't, while being very curious and engaged with the reality of women's sexuality. Your currency as a younger dude is virility, high energy, and enthusiasm that hasn't been dampened by wear and tear. As long as you show that you are self assured and open to the experience, she will be happy to take you along.

Yes I generally don't try to show I am cool and experienced, I mostly try to communicate how I view sex, sexuality, and also communicate this awareness, but I believe I could do this last one even better. I mean communicating how sex feels for a woman, how women want to be taken care of and have their fantasies fulfilled as you say, and generally more understanding about how it feels for a woman to be having sex.

The other point about being a younger dude is something I think I should really look at. For a while I was thinking that people, especially women, believing I am older and calling me mature is a good think and always took it with pride. But now I am thinking that maybe I come off not high energy and enthusiastic enough for a young guy, and it feels I am really dampened down making me unexciting. I had a girl, in a field report here some months ago, that even though in the beginning of our date got very sexually interested, by the end of it she told me that her ex was the same age as me but was very playful and enthusiastic and I felt like too non-energetic and boring in comparison and we were not on the same wavelength.

I generally tend to have people find me very chill, mature, and giving off a much older energy, like I have lived a lot in my life. I had a therapy session about 2 years ago and even back then the therapist told me that the way I talk does not match my age, and I give off a bit of similar vibe with people that come to his office after finishing their long career and retiring, and they just don't know what to do with their lives anymore outside of the successful job they had forever. I bet the fact I wanted to change career trajectories without a clear end goal, and spending these last years either travelling a bit, or looking for what else to do without a very specific target is playing a big role in that.

So I feel I have to find ways to get the needed playfulness and excitement that is a big part of sexuality and having fun back if I want to be having great experiences with women.

I think you're doing a great job with your first impressions and drawing women into the door of the seduction, but your congruence and frame control thereafter could be improved.

So yeah this feels spot on. I'm only thinking what kind of congruence and frame control we are talking about. I suppose it's about being more playful and rolling with her sexual innuendos and subcommunications whenever they appear, showing my appreciation of all her sides, while communicating my understanding and acceptance of her sexual world and experiences.

I probably come off as a pretty open sexual guy up front, but then I don't back it up and girls are confused regarding what they should do with me. I clearly seem to be leading towards quick sex, but at the same time it doesn't feel like I'm providing the experience that is conducive to it.

 

[Will_V]

I did tell her I love it when she was saying she is a bad girl and I enjoy her crazy vibe a lot. I think I didn't go into asking her what bad things she is doing to not feel like I am going into sexual topics too soon. I believed that I should take it a bit more chill in the beginning of the interaction to not look super enthusiastic and sex crazed.

The idea is to set a frame of 'you're a naughty girl and I like it'. You don't have to immediately go into all the dirty details of what she likes to do. It's enough just to set the frame and use it to tease and qualify her playfully.

But yes you are right this pressure and release you talked about last time as well is something I should be doing more, I think I didn't realise it and probably believed the point was not to take the fact that she is saying she is bad really seriously. I did ask her later what bad things she is doing, and she was like nothing bad to others, I am just partying smoking drinking, and she also told me how I am not smoking and not even drinking that much and seem to be very proper. But I was still taking all that as something not serious, thinking that it's not a topic to expand as not smoking is a lifestyle choice and it's silly to think it really makes me fun, no fun or anything else, so my responses were like like: yeah never smoked, my lungs couldn't handle it.

This is not the right way to go about it. It's not important what she does that is 'bad' but the fact that she is a 'bad girl' per se. She just has to feel like 'I'm a bad girl and I can be a bad girl with this guy'. The reason is that this frame plays into how she responds later when things get more sexual.

For example, if a girl is studying I always ask her if she's a 'good student'. Do I care about whether she sits up properly in the classroom? Nope. It's just a way to add sexual undertones and make her feel like I'm the teacher and she's the student who's trying to get good grades with me.

Frames like this are never about the details, they are about playing with meanings and making subtle suggestions that make her start to feel sexual and submissive.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

The idea is to set a frame of 'you're a naughty girl and I like it'. You don't have to immediately go into all the dirty details of what she likes to do. It's enough just to set the frame and use it to tease and qualify her playfully.

Yeah this is something I had in mind, but I think i just said literally that: "I love this bad girl vibe of yours", without really teasing her more on it or being playful about it.

This is not the right way to go about it. It's not important what she does that is 'bad' but the fact that she is a 'bad girl' per se. She just has to feel like 'I'm a bad girl and I can be a bad girl with this guy'. The reason is that this frame plays into how she responds later when things get more sexual.

For example, if a girl is studying I always ask her if she's a 'good student'. Do I care about whether she sits up properly in the classroom? Nope. It's just a way to add sexual undertones and make her feel like I'm the teacher and she's the student who's trying to get good grades with me.

Frames like this are never about the details, they are about playing with meanings and making subtle suggestions that make her start to feel sexual and submissive

I feel that I didn't particularly care about the bad things she does either, but I asked that question as a way to get back into the frame that she is a bad girl and eventually could be with me. At least that was my idea, but I think by the way i approached it, with a very logical question about what makes her bad, I kinda broke the playfulness of it.

So I understand what you mean, maybe I got afraid to subcommunicate sexually through these frames because she also introduced them first and I didn't want it to look like I am following her lead. But I guess if she leads the interaction towards sex herself, it's silly to not play with it and enhance it.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

I have read it in fact and know the concept, I am just not sure what to do in these situations if she just says she won't come. I addressed her objection of it being the first time, of it being my favourite pizza and I should eat it myself, of the pizza being small as well as she said it once more before that point. But then I was like ok no matter what I address she seems very firm in her decision, I better respect it, what else can I do? I could give a hard push but I couldn't see how it would work with her state of mind, and felt that more persistence at that moment would just make me feel like I am trying to force her to come and that's the only thing I care about. I felt she probably has some attainability issues and wants to connect more first, so I decided ok let's respect her decision and show her I care about her as well, and don't only see her as a sex object.

And I agree with the best chance being the first date, I generally tend to not even get second dates, and I started thinking that if I let the date end before going to the seduction location or pushing too hard for sex it could give me a higher probability for a second date, compared to going for it and failing. And with some cases like this date, I just don't see how I could make her come to my place, no matter what objection I was addressing she was staying in her decision, so I decided it is better to respect that, and show her that for me this doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see her again.

sounds like strong objections.Use this:

Advanced romantic objection handling

I think it would feel reactive to just leave the moment she gave the objection, not wanting to come home. I suppose it does look like chasing, what I wanted to show is that I am not affected by it, and it's not that much of a big deal for me, and give her the chance to connect at a later time as well.

Not really.You can keep on a poker face and stay unfazed . Anyways, it depends on how patient you are. You are not being bitter or reactive.You just have your own rules that you stick to. It's always good to test stuff out though.These are just my suggestions

 

[ChrisXKiss]

sounds like strong objections.Use this:

Advanced romantic objection handling

Thanks, I'll check it.

Not really.You can keep on a poker face and stay unfazed . Anyways, it depends on how patient you are. You are not being bitter or reactive.You just have your own rules that you stick to. It's always good to test stuff out though.These are just my suggestions

Yeah I see how it could work. It's not that I am staying now waiting for this girl by the way, I will contact her again and try to meet, but generally after not getting to sex right away, I persist to meet again for the low probability that it may happen. So my stance here was more about not closing the door to her completely, while I will still go out and meet more girls.

Trying new things is always good I agree, and thanks for the suggestions!

 

[ChrisXKiss]

A small interesting update here. Some days after the date I sent her one voice message with no response, then another text some days later to which she responded. I also sent my answer back to that last one, basically asking her how she has been. This was on Friday and at that night I was downtown walking around doing some night street game, when I eventually approached a girl that happened to be from my country.

Extremely friendly vibe, and I was also almost ready to go back home, so we took the bus together. I did approach her sexually, but for some reason it rarely seems to go well for me in my mother tongue, and whenever I meet girls from my country abroad they instantly seem to get to a very socially friendly mood. So I wasn't even going for anything with her, but we sat at the bus together until her station, and then I went on. We didn't even exchange numbers, I kinda didn't care to ask to be honest.

The thing is though that inside that bus was also the girl from this field report with a friend of hers. They were sitting fairly opposite to us, clearly saw us together, and I saw her as well, but I never made eye contact with her, while I was talking to the girl that was sitting with me. After a bit more people came in between, so it was easy to avoid the contact all the way till my stop.

One day later I receive a text by this girl: "Hey. I think i saw you yesterday in the Bus with a Woman "

And I answer: " Someone is spying on me xD" (1)
" You do know the types of girls I prefer; bad... redheads... in compliance... "
" How has your weekend been?"

Then she responded to the (1): " And someone is cheating on me " (2)
and also said: " Weekend was good. Thank you. And yours?"

After seeing these I said: "Quite relaxed, love this beautiful weather a lot "
and to her (2): " How could I even look at another woman like that when I have you?"

This was on Sunday. She has read my messages but hasn't sent anything back. To be honest I don't expect much, I may text her again after some days to go for another meeting, but my point here was that I found this whole scenario quite interesting. She clearly saw me with another girl being positive towards me, so I wanted to note it down, seeing how the preselection affected her communication and whether it will have any impact on this interaction later on.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Yeah your problem with this girl is that you 100% come off as a boyfriend/nice guy.

She felt you didn't match her level of naughtiness.

In my experience, whenever a girl says she's a bad girl, the last thing you want to do is to start chasing, acting like a boyfriend or telling her "you love her" (side note: this can work if you're running romantic sexual game but that's not what you're doing)

Once a girl says she's a bad girl or naughty girl:

- First, you challenge her playfully almost like you don't believe her. You want the frame to be off her chasing you

- Then you communicate that you like naughty girls just like Will said.

- Then you connect with her a bit (don't over do it) and make her feel comfortable while showing you understand what sex for a woman feels like plus her desires. This comment by Will V gives you a good mindset to work with on that:

"One suggestion I have for you with older/more experienced women is to not try to come off too cool or experienced but simply show that you are aware of things that most men aren't, while being very curious and engaged with the reality of women's sexuality. Your currency as a younger dude is virility, high energy, and enthusiasm that hasn't been dampened by wear and tear. As long as you show that you are self assured and open to the experience, she will be happy to take you along"

The preselection worked cuz she felt maybe you were actually the naughty bad boy she was craving.


You did well by saying she's spying you but then you fucked it up by falling for her test and saying she's your woman. (You immediately started chasing and acting boyfriendy again)

My reaction would have been to be laid back and chill...(almost like she's losing you) tease and challenge her a bit

Then just vibe with her over for like 2 days then invite her out again.

Anyways, leave the chat for now. Ping her later on after a few days if she doesn't reply.

Then chat with her and subtly communicate from the frame of you're a naughty bad boy who understands women and makes them feel comfortable in themselves, around you and in their desires. And that you can give her a pleasurable, comfortable experience.


Drop all boyfriendy/nice guy stuff you've been doing.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Thanks for the reply!

You did well by saying she's spying you but then you fucked it up by falling for her test and saying she's your woman. (You immediately started chasing and acting boyfriendy again)

In fact I was thinking a lot how to tease her here without causing her to autoreject by being too much of a bad boy. I was thinking of telling her stuff like: "Oh no babe, it's not what you think, it's just a colleague from work ", but I ended up with the text saying she is my woman as a playful tease. Imagine saying it with a sly grin in your face, like you both know you see other women and she could never really believe that she is your girl. That is the vibe I had in mind, but I guess it was too subtle to be conveyed by the text message I sent, and reading it back it does feel a bit I'm saying it literally, maybe using this emoji here as well, could have brought it closer to what I was going for.

My reaction would have been to be laid back and chill...(almost like she's losing you) tease and challenge her a bit

Yeah, was also thinking about saying stuff like: "You knew it when we got married babe, just can't say no to a cute girl", or "Stop being jealous babe, if you took better care of me I wouldn't be off having sex elsewhere", and again I guess all would work better with this emoji to show I am playful, and not reactive/bitter because we didn't have sex the first time.

I just went with the message I went, because I felt that some of these I posted here would be too much bad boyish and would make me lose all attainability, but maybe I was wrong going for something more subtle for a text exchange.

Then chat with her and subtly communicate from the frame of you're a naughty bad boy who understands women and makes them feel comfortable in themselves, around you and in their desires. And that you can give her a pleasurable, comfortable experience.


Drop all boyfriendy/nice guy stuff you've been doing.

So I guess you suggest I go full throttle with the naughtiness, I see, I can do that. I have some worries now about how congruent it will be with the previous communication but I suppose it's the best way to go about it anyway. Do you feel the even the ping should be a tease in this situation?